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Why the hate for 3.33? Did you not notice that the characters

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Why the hate for 3.33? Did you not notice that the characters were all the way most Eva viewers interpreted them? Rei is boring and emotionless submissive girl, Asuka is a fiery redheaded tsundere action girl, Misato is a cold and calm commander, Gendo is a cool and distant schemer, Kaworu is gay piano playing butt buddy.

Anno has been giving everyone what they believed and wanted and you sick it back at him. Who seriously prefers Soryu to Shikinami? Nobody, that's who. If you're disgusted with this film, you should feel disgusted with yourselves for having interpreted the original this way.
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>>123345672

plot is nonsensical emo shit.
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>>123345672
>Misato is a cold and calm commander
No one ever thought that.
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>Ass ka handled being a pilot for 14 years without going insane
>Gendo and old man built a whole Eva Unit in a fucking ruin
>WILLE fought those two old farts for 14 years without winning, and they got a giant fucking mothership
>what the fuck happened to the Angels
How can anybody tolerate the amount of bullshit in 3.33?
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>>123345672
Anno is an imbecile if he expects us to believe that THIS is what we "wanted" of Eva, or, that this is what Eva "is".

Asuka has spent fourteen fucking years since she last saw Shinji, and apparently, has never gotten over what happened in the Bardiel incident. Seriously, she goes on and on about "Bratty-Shinji", and then starts acting with Misato like some Kiss-ass daughter, and dresses like some edgy teenager with that ridiculous hat and hoodie. Not mentioning her inability to control her anger at anything, what with punching the reinforced glass to scare Shinji, and threatening to kill Shinji in the one situation that she could have better managed with any approach other than Violence. The only parallel with Eva here is that every insult that Asuka chooses is her projecting her insecurities on others (see, doll).

Misato and Ritsuko parade Shinji around on some retarded guilt trip, and refuse to explain anything that has happened, with Misato choosing the most offensive, hurtful words and actions possible to use as a response every time. Seriously, they spend fourteen years building up to this opperation, and it seems they never stopped to think, "What do we do with Shinji?"

The whole "This is your fault, Shinji" is completely incongruent with the ending of 2.22, Kaworu lanced Unit 01, and stopped the impact before anything else had happened, and then we are expected to believe that SOMEHOW, Lilith became GNR, a Full impact occured, THE MOON FELL INTO EARTH, and this is somehow SHINJI'S fault. The guy that went into a 14 year coma after he took Rei out of Zeruel, BEFORE, he got lanced.


>>Cont'd
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>Misato is a cold and calm commander

No she fucking isn't. Her 3.33 timeskip characters is WAY fucking different than her original/1.0/2.0 counterpart.
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>>123348343

>WILLE fought those two old farts for 14 years without winning

And how do they even "fight them". If they know Gendo is in the ruins of NERV, why didn't they just go there and kill him?
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>>123349707
One of NGE's characteristics was that with SEELE's conspiracy, all the tragedy that befell Characters was not really something they could have avoided, the conspiracy achieved critical mass after Second Impact, and none could escape it's pull.

And now, Anno is trying to pull some "personal responsibility" moral to shoehorn in Eva, the one fucking anime that avoided that bullshit. 14 year old kid's should not be expected to act as Humanity's bulwark, no man can't be taken as responsible for all that happens to him, everyone is falible in some way, THAT was Eva. Not bullshit Philo-Babble about sin's and atonement.
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>>123349790

Gotta get them $$$$$$$.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Hopefully he makes a good project with the money later.
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>>123349868
Anno could make a fuck billion dollars with just about anything. He doesn't need to make a shit Eva to make money.
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>>123349994
But it's guaranteed to make more money with the title "Neon Genesis Evangelion" plastered all over it, is it not?
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3.33 gets better with repeated watching. You realize there's no way to make sense of anything that's happened between 2.22 and 3.33, so you can relate to Shinji's actions in trying to just get things back to the way they were because the way things are now don't make any goddamn sense and for some reason everyone's blaming him.

Near Third Impact or worse, Third Impact, would've happened either way; Shinji was in a bad spot at the end of 2.22 and not of his own volition but he ends up responsible for it anyways. Sometimes life deals you a shit hand; only some people are lucky away to run away from the messes they've made forever.
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>>123348164
this
everyone felt out of character and it was trying to be edgy
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>>123345672
It's a meme to hate 3.33.
The arguments most people have against 3.33, like the time skip and character development, have been debunked into the ground. Unless you're completely new to /a/, you'd know this. It's simply a meme to dislike 3.33 because that's what happened when 1.11 and 2.22 came out. Everyone hated them. It'll change. Wait until 4.0 comes out. The meme will die.
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>>123351663
Oh look, it's this meme again.
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>>123345672
I love both Asuka's. I've become Mormon so I can have both!!
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>>123345672
>Did you not notice that the characters were all the way most Eva viewers interpreted them?

Characters shouldn't be how the viewers interpret them because the viewers are faggots and don't know what they want. The characters should be what they were written as and in 3.33 they weren't.
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I'll tell you exactly why I hate 3.33

>Timeskip kills all the momentum built by 2.22
>Plot revolves around Shinji not knowing what the fuck is going on and making poor decisions because of it
>All character building with Rei is reset
>All character building with Misato is reset
>Mari confirmed for useless
>That fucking cat
>Nothing new added between Kaworu and Shinji, it's still just bread and butter homolust
>We waited 3 years for this, and we've had to wait another 3(?) years for the conclusion.
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>>123351831
See >>123351663
What he posted is a copy pasta. Spouting a meme.
Like clockwork.
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>>123351663
>It's a meme

You're doing that thing were you pretend that the opinions opposite of yours are not real. Don't do that, it kills communication.

People hate 3.33 because they dislike it, not because of a meme. People aren't that lacking in an identity as to hold the popular opinion out of apathy, at least, not here, you don't come here if you care that little about something.
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There is a certain group of autists who spent 3 years complaining that George Lucas took away their Han Solo and replaced him with a nigger.
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>>123350220
Shinji was the only character that made sense in the whole movie. All he wanted was to pull out the lances and fix the fucking world.
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>>123351862

Anta baka? People gave a collective "meh" about 1.0, and creamed their fucking pants for 2.0

How exactly were the complaints about 3.33 "debunked"?
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>>123351871
>People hate 3.33 because they dislike it, not because of a meme.
Happened with 1.11 and 2.22.
Opinions will change once 4.0 comes out. People are consistent and this meme will end soon.
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>>123351831
>>Timeskip kills all the momentum built by 2.22

Biggest offender for me. Third Impact almost happens and we see none of the fallout from it, just the results.
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>>123351908
>How exactly were the complaints about 3.33 "debunked"?
Perhaps you need to lurk more, newfriend.
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>>123351910
See >>123349707
>>123349732

This is not copypasta and gives a good summary of why many dislike 3.33.
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the curse of eva is just creepy
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>>123351940

Perhaps you need to check em

And also, I'm providing arguments, you're not.
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>>123351985
It also makes no sense and most likely won't be explained in 3+1 either.
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>>123351950
But >>123349707 is blatantly wrong and bait on many levels. Do I need to waste time replying to that whole paragraph when it could easily be explained away by watching 3.33?
I'll hand it to you though, Misato didn't nearly as much attention as she needed.
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>>123352023
>most likely won't be explained in 3+1 either
>disliking something in 3.33 because of an assumption
See? A meme.
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>>123351985
It's lazy as fucking shit is what it is.

Fuck 3.33. I get mad just thinking about it.
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>>123352034
>Do I need to waste time replying to that whole paragraph when it could easily be explained away by watching 3.33?

Yes, you do, because that's how discussion works. Also, I've watched 3.33 and I agree with every word that anon wrote.
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>>123352072
I also said I dislike it because it makes no fucking sense in 3.33 either. Get your head out of your ass, memeboy.
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>>123352034

You've already posted this much, and been using /a/ since at least 1.0 came out, so why the fuck not?
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>>123352034
Hey, I wrote >>123349707 And I can assure you, I saw the movie, and none of what I said is an outright lie, at the very least; nor do I have the intention of trolling, seeing uppercase rants is not my idea of fun.

So, mind giving your take on why this is blatantly wrong AND bait?
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The ending would have been better as the beginning.
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3.33 is great. Shot for shot it's beautiful. And it's the articulation of creator-driven cinema, which is always the best kind. People also neglect that there was a straight-up eva-on-eva fight sequence at the end, leading to a 'god-mode-event.'

It fucking rules.

To quote David Lynch, "Life doesn't make sense, I don't see why people expect art to."
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>>123345672
I thought the two things that 3.33 focused on, Shinji's confusion and frustration about the world around him and how it leads to his relationship with Kaworu, were handled really well.
The other characters aren't handled that great and nothing about the timeskip has been properly explained but that all felt intentional, since the viewers were placed almost completely in Shinji's shoes. He was making terrible decisions but I related to him more throughout 3.33 than any other Eva media. If the character development turns out to be thrown out the window and the time skip ends up being a complete waste of time then I'll criticize the films decision but judging it at this point in time is stupid, since Eva universe aside I thought its standalone plot was fine.

The final movie will make or break Rebuild and judgement should be reserved until its release.
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>>123352121
>>123352115
oooookay Most of it is bait, but you're right. May as well take a bite.
>Asuka has spent fourteen fucking years since she last saw Shinji, and apparently, has never gotten over what happened in the Bardiel incident.
Yes. Because a lot of people died from it and the beginning of the end happened. Of course she's pissed off still. Everyone's pissed off at Shinji for almost destroying the human race.
>Misato and Ritsuko parade Shinji around on some retarded guilt trip, and refuse to explain anything that has happened, with Misato choosing the most offensive, hurtful words and actions possible to use as a response every time.
See above. People are pissed and as far as they're concerned, Shinji isn't useful to them anymore. Why bother wasting time explaining and putting the mind of Shinji's at ease when he caused the deaths of billions of people? People are sour. He's a monster in their eyes. We as the viewers know better, but the characters don't.
>Seriously, they spend fourteen years building up to this opperation, and it seems they never stopped to think, "What do we do with Shinji?
They don't need Shinji at this point. This is made obvious almost immediately. At least they think they don't need him.
>The whole "This is your fault, Shinji" is completely incongruent with the ending of 2.22, Kaworu lanced Unit 01, and stopped the impact before anything else had happened
Ya know, except for the billions of dead people. That happened.
>and this is somehow SHINJI'S fault
It WAS Shinji's fault.
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>>123352228
Look, I loved Erasorhead, and Lynch's work in general, but Anno nor you can pretend that Q is such a movie. Beautyfully animated as it may be, it doesn't get to do away with it's plot and characters to become some meaningful, pretty slideshow.

EoE, it can be argued, managed to do this, but the plot still went on, and the characters stayed on point.
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>>123352228
Unfortunately, Rebuild isn't art.
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>>123352340
I thought that was some pretty blatant bait myself. Good, but blatant.
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>>123349707
Eva 3.0 is what anno wants eva to be.
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>>123352312

Well that rationalizes some of the character's behavior, but it doesn't explain why 3.33 isn't a shit movie
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>>123352422
If your main complaint that the character's are acting unusual or in a way you don't like, then yes it does.
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>>123352455

That's not my main complaint.

>>123351831

Those are my main complaints
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>>123352312
I'll look at some other stuff later, but let's start here.
>It WAS Shinji's fault.
How so? He didn't know what his Eva was doing. He didn't even know his Eva could cause and Impact. Not to mention the fact that he was manipulated by Gendo into doing it.

>Shinji isn't useful to them anymore. Why bother wasting time explaining and putting the mind of Shinji's at ease when he caused the deaths of billions of people?
He's not an asset anymore, but he's still a massive threat. They should be trying to control said threat in any way they can, and that includes putting his mind at ease.
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>>123352312
Pretty strange that Misato is all over Shinji's shit for trying to save Rei, considering she was the one telling him to do it at the end of 2.0 because it's what HE wanted.
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>>123352525
>Timeskip kills all the momentum built by 2.22
It doesn't though. There's 14 years of war, drama, and rebuilding from Shinji's fuck up.
>Plot revolves around Shinji not knowing what the fuck is going on and making poor decisions because of it
I already explained this.
>All character building with Rei is reset
Rei in 2.22 died. That's a new Rei.
>All character building with Misato is reset
I completely agree. The only thing I really didn't like about 3.33.
>Mari confirmed for useless
Thank you 2.22 for introducing this character.
>That fucking cat
nyan nyan nyan X3333 thanks 2.22
>Nothing new added between Kaworu and Shinji, it's still just bread and butter homolust
The relationship between Kaworu and Shinji are at least believable in 3.33. In NGE, the relationship feels forced with Kaworu literally asking Shinji to fuck him just an hours after meeting him. NGE is faggotry and homolust in your face. 3.33 is relationship building and bromance.
>We waited 3 years for this, and we've had to wait another 3(?) years for the conclusion.
Waited 3 years for 2.22 after 1.11. That's a nonissue.
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>>123352312
Look, when you spend 14 years after a tragedy, dealing with it's aftereffects, and trying to unmake it, you have to think critically about what happened there, how did it come to that, and how where you involved in it.

Asuka, Misato, an Ritsuko don't get to be resentful for fourteen years, they should have at one point stopped to think about it. What did Shinji do?, how could he do it?, could he have not done it?, was there another way?, where other actors at play?

This is something they should have asked themselves. They didn't.

The only possible explanation is that they prefer to hate him than having to stop and admit their guilt in all of NERV's actions. They prefer being bitter at Shinji than facing the reality of the Near Third Impact, and of their own responsibility.

To put it shortly, if this is true, they are not heroes, and Q's narrative does not portrait them as a gray against gray figure, it glorifies them, paint's them as the good guys, when in spirit, they are not that far from the old Nerv.
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>>123352584
>How so? He didn't know what his Eva was doing. He didn't even know his Eva could cause and Impact. Not to mention the fact that he was manipulated by Gendo into doing it.
"He din du nuffin he was a good boy"
Doesn't matter if he didn't know any better. A major FUCK UP like killing billions of people isn't something that just gets brushed aside as a "well it's okay everyone makes mistakes." I understand that as a viewer we can find this weird, but the issue is with the character's reactions. These characters don't know any better. All they know is that he did something crazy trying to save someone when being told "don't do it" and then billions of people died. What doesn't make sense is that they didn't just execute him or let him float around in space forever.
>He's not an asset anymore, but he's still a massive threat. They should be trying to control said threat in any way they can, and that includes putting his mind at ease.
He's only a threat if he's in an Eva. Keeping him uninformed about Evas and this civil war, as well as what he has done and is capable of doing, is the safest thing they could have done. Well, that and that silly collar.
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>>123352638
>It doesn't though. There's 14 years of war, drama, and rebuilding from Shinji's fuck up.
All of which is not shown. You can't tout things not in the film as being a positive. Moreover, those 14 years make it so that 2.22 and 3.33 are almost entirely unconnected, at least from a character perspective.
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>>123352640
>Asuka, Misato, an Ritsuko don't get to be resentful for fourteen years, they should have at one point stopped to think about it. What did Shinji do?, how could he do it?, could he have not done it?, was there another way?, where other actors at play?
He caused the beginning of the third impact, almost destroying the entire world. I don't know why I have to stress this enough. It would be very, very, VERY difficult to convince someone to give Shinji a pat on the back, sit down for some tea, and talk about the past after they saw what he caused. People can stay mad for 14 years. That's totally human. Just like when you hear the stories about people who lose a loved one in a car accident and they never forgive the people who hit them, regardless if they were innocent or not.
And chances are that they DID ask themselves that. But keep in mind, a civil-like war breaks out, the world is almost destroyed, and billions of people are still dead.
>The only possible explanation is that they prefer to hate him than having to stop and admit their guilt in all of NERV's actions.
That or that he caused the deaths of a vast majority of the human race.
>They prefer being bitter at Shinji than facing the reality of the Near Third Impact, and of their own responsibility.
No shit. HE KILLED A LOT OF PEOPLE
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>>123352742
>All of which is not shown.
Oh so the issue is things literally being shown to you like in the picture books.
They're explained via exposition and dialogue between characters. Rewatch 3.33.
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>>123352734
>He's only a threat if he's in an Eva. Keeping him uninformed about Evas and this civil war, as well as what he has done and is capable of doing, is the safest thing they could have done. Well, that and that silly collar.

Yeah, except when you give the detonation device to someone with a clear emotional attachment to Shinji.

Or the fact that them utterly failing to explain anything to Shinji is part of what leads him to allow himself to be kidnapped by Unit 00 and Rei Q, which leads to the almost Fourth Impact.
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>>123352638

>It doesn't though. There's 14 years of war, drama, and rebuilding from Shinji's fuck up.
That we don't get to see. How did Wille form? WHere'd they get their floating battleship? How did Gendo and Fuyutsuki get their hands on more Eva's?
>I already explained this.
It's a poor way to tell a story. Dramatic irony is rewarding when the audience knows at least some of what's going on, it's frustrating when they know nothing
>Rei in 2.22 died. That's a new Rei.
Again, that's frustrating. This is a movie series, with character arcs, and hers was cut short before it developed into anything
>I completely agree. The only thing I really didn't like about 3.33.
At least we're on the same page here.
>Thank you 2.22 for introducing this character.
Guess you have all of her figures?
>nyan nyan nyan X3333 thanks 2.22
...?
>The relationship between Kaworu and Shinji are at least believable in 3.33. In NGE, the relationship feels forced with Kaworu literally asking Shinji to fuck him just an hours after meeting him. NGE is faggotry and homolust in your face. 3.33 is relationship building and bromance.
It didn't add anything. Kaworu even said "This time I'll make you happy" and Shinji is pretty much the opposite of happy at the end of the movie
>Waited 3 years for 2.22 after 1.11. That's a nonissue.
If 3.0 and 4.0 had come out at the same time, like was planned, I might forgive some of 3.0's shortfalls. But it didn't, so I won't
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>>123352638
She's not dead, she's in the Eva. So she COULD be dead.
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>>123352734
>Doesn't matter if he didn't know any better. A major FUCK UP like killing billions of people isn't something that just gets brushed aside as a "well it's okay everyone makes mistakes."

This is not a fuck up. This is like a two year old picking up a gun and shooting their parents dead. Shinji had literally no concept of what he was doing, and therefore can't possibly be held responsible.

>These characters don't know any better.
There's no fucking way that you can tell me that between Misato, Ritsuko, and everyone else who switched from NERV to Willie that they couldn't figure out that maybe, JUST MAYBE, Gendo was behind it all.

>What doesn't make sense is that they didn't just execute him or let him float around in space forever.
Or just put him on a sedative drip. That said, I don't see how this doesn't strike you as a "nothing they are doing makes any sense" moment because if they did this thing that makes sense the whole fucking plot would be over.>>123352908
>Oh so the issue is things literally being shown to you like in the picture books.

>They're explained via exposition and dialogue between characters. Rewatch 3.33.
>I literally have no idea how effective storytelling and worldbuilding works in a visual media format.
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>>123352867
And what of Ritsuko?

She built the Goddamn EVAs, She KNEW they had that kind of power, and told no one about it.

She put an uber-Tsar Bomba in a jet-fighter, wired it to some button in the control panel, TOLD NO ONE ABOUT IT, NOT THE CAPTAIN, NOT EVEN THE PILOTS and when it came to the point where that button had to be pressed to win a battle, SHE BLAMES THE PILOT.

This is more her fault that Shinji's. Had she said "If you do this THE WORLD WILL END!!" instead of "you won't be able to come back!", things would be different.

Seriously, does Misato realize what Ritsuko did? How is she allowed on Wille? Everything about Wille seems fishy when you think about it
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>>123352990
>Kaworu even said "This time I'll make you happy" and Shinji is pretty much the opposite of happy at the end of the movie

In all fairness, he acknowledges that in 3.33. He says that this isn't what Shinji wanted or what would make him happy. It's shortly before his head explodes.
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>>123352734
>All they know is that he did something crazy trying to save someone when being told "don't do it" and then billions of people died.
>when being told "don't do it"
No.>>123352734
>Keeping him uninformed about Evas and this civil war, as well as what he has done and is capable of doing, is the safest thing they could have done.

Option #1
Misato: You did this thing, lots of people died, end of story. Go back to your cell and for the love of god don't get in the Eva.
Shinji: Ok.

Option #2
Misato: Fuck off faggot.
Shinji: [...]

Guess which option makes more sense.
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>>123352988
I think the main issue is that you're thinking like a viewer and evaluating the characters as though they too are viewers.

>That we don't get to see. How did Wille form? WHere'd they get their floating battleship? How did Gendo and Fuyutsuki get their hands on more Eva's?
It's explained in 3.33 through exposition and character dialogue. Rewatch 3.33. Sorry, I really don't know what else to say.
>It's a poor way to tell a story. Dramatic irony is rewarding when the audience knows at least some of what's going on, it's frustrating when they know nothing
I'd argue it isn't. You're put into the shoes of Shinji. You were confused? Excellent! So was Shinji! Luckily this confusion doesn't last because everything is eventually explained by implication or exposition. Well, not everything, but a good deal of what people complain about is explained by the end of the movie.
>Again, that's frustrating. This is a movie series, with character arcs, and hers was cut short before it developed into anything
Literally the same thing happened in NGE yet we don't see people flipping their shit when Rei III comes on the screen.
>Guess you have all of her figures?
No. I'm being sarcastic. It's a reason I dislike 2.22. Introducing this annoying, pointless character.
>It didn't add anything. Kaworu even said "This time I'll make you happy" and Shinji is pretty much the opposite of happy at the end of the movie
It made for a more believable relationship development between the characters. It's better than the literal homoeroticism that's emphasized in NGE. But of course he's unhappy at the end of the movie. "The third child again. You never change, do you?"
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>>123353102
I don't think she thought he would trigger Third Impact, just that his soul would get trapped in the Eva like his mother. She sounds pretty shocked and terrified when it actually happens and she announces that the world is ending.
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>>123353185
I'm not the other guy you're talking to. And no matter how you put it, giving the switch to end Shinji's life to his former caretaker, someone whose extremely unlikely to be able to pull the trigger when it comes time to, is either extremely reckless or extremely stupid. Especially when Ritsuko is there and would do it without hesitation.
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>>123353185
>Literally the same thing happened in NGE yet we don't see people flipping their shit when Rei III comes on the screen.

Rei II and Rei III have the same soul. Rei III is a continuation of Rei II.
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>>123352867
No one is talking about having some tea, a pat on the back or whatever, you dense fuck.
Their rage is justified, them not telling Shinji what happened is not.
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>>123353185
Rei III IS Rei II, her soul got reembodied on another clone.

Rei Q isn't. She's some poor girl that was cloned from Yui and raised to be an automaton.
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>>123353102
>She built the Goddamn EVAs, She KNEW they had that kind of power

No, no she did not. The EVA's are made from 'reverse-engineering' Adam. This is why that can't slap an AT-field onto conventional weaponry, nobody knows how it works.
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>>123353185
>Literally the same thing happened in NGE yet we don't see people flipping their shit when Rei III comes on the screen.

Except Rei III is Rei II, that's part of why she betrays Gendo at the end of it all to put Instrumentality in Shinji's hands instead of his. Rei Q is basically her as a blank slate, all the way back to 1.11 and I understand his frustration of seeing a character we've watched develop for two movies suddenly be reset to 0.
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Nevermind whether 3.33 is a shit or not. It is, but nevermind that. Don't bother arguing it.

We expect more from Eva than just not being shit. We expect it to be great. Turn the conversation around and challenge the people who'd argue with you to explain how 3.33 is any good at all. Then laugh at their failure.
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>>123353435
I just wanted it to be at least as good as 2.22. With how much time they had to work on it that shouldn't have been so much to ask.
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>>123353077
>This is not a fuck up. This is like a two year old picking up a gun and shooting their parents dead
Replace that with "14 year old who almost destroys the planet". Just because he may not have understood the fuck up he just did doesn't mean people can't be pissed off that he killed their family members. This is common human behavior.
>There's no fucking way that you can tell me that between Misato, Ritsuko, and everyone else who switched from NERV to Willie that they couldn't figure out that maybe, JUST MAYBE, Gendo was behind it all.
Sure. That's one of the reasons they're fighting him. Doesn't mean they still can't be pissed off at Shinji for killing billions of people.

>>123353102
>She built the Goddamn EVAs, She KNEW they had that kind of power, and told no one about it.
But she did. This was done in 2.22.

>>123353125
Maybe. Again, Misato thinks of Shinji as a monster, hence the collar symbolism. Why waste time talking to someone who is piratically useless? Again, the only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that they saved Shinji.
>>
>>123353260
Yes, as a viewer I agree. Think of the CHARACTERS. That's the issue, right? That's what everyone says when they complain about this, that the characters don't get it.
Explain to Billy Bob that the reason his entire family died and billions of others died was because Shinji just didn't know any better. I'm sure that'll take a load off his troubled mind.

>>123353316
>>123353360
Sorry, you're right. I forgot about this. My mistake.
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>>123353476
>Replace that with "14 year old who almost destroys the planet". Just because he may not have understood the fuck up he just did doesn't mean people can't be pissed off that he killed their family members. This is common human behavior.
If I was some random dickhead who's family died, yeah, I would be mad. But if I knew him personally, cared for him, and understood most or all of the circumstances that lead to that event (LIKE MISATO DOES), there's no way that I could blame him. There's no intent.
>>
>>123353476

At this point we're just spinning wheels, so here's a video Which is much more entertaining than 3.0 was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pmHMbOfWn0
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>>123353476
>Why waste time talking to someone who is piratically useless?

Because if he ever DOES get kidnapped and Gendo puts him in another Eva he'll end the world again? Their entire plan on keeping Shinji in the dark only works for as long as they can keep him under watch.
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>>123345672
The only thing I didn't like rom 3.33 is that shinji went back to be a obnoxious character, despite his badass momentum in the 2.22 finale, which earned my respect for the character. there was room to a good conclusion, but well whatever. I'm still expecting the final movie, though.
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>>123353469
I guess that's true. I had dropped my standards after the first two, just accepting that we'll never have time for characterization.

Even that, I wasn't prepared to see what little characterization they did mange get pissed away. Rei gone, Shiji regressed, Misato becomes Gendo 2.0, Asuka's 28 now but is operating at peak retardation.

I guess Kaworu was alright if you ignore everything that doesn't make sense associated with his scenes.
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>>123353610
>If I was some random dickhead who's family died, yeah, I would be mad. But if I knew him personally, cared for him, and understood most or all of the circumstances that lead to that event (LIKE MISATO DOES), there's no way that I could blame him. There's no intent.
Guess what, a lot of people complain that those random dick heads are pissed off. At least you accept that it makes sense that they'd be pissed off.
Again, I disagree. She lost respect for him, hence the collar again, symbolism. She changed from 14 years of war, being leader of Wille, and the threat of angels around the corner. It'd make sense that she's more rugged and not hopping all over Shinji, tears in her eyes as she asks if he's okay. Maybe down the line she would have explained what was going on. That's just an assumption, of course. She's pissed off too and she has every right to be. Maybe she doesn't not platonically love Shinji, but she sure as fuck is pissed off at him.
Asuka is just Asuka being tsundere, but her character was ruined by 2.22 anyways.
>>
>>123353690
>Their entire plan on keeping Shinji in the dark only works for as long as they can keep him under watch.
So the collar, right?
>>
Am I the only one who found the DSS choker to be extremely lewd?
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>>123353817
Kaworu was one of the few things I liked about 3.33 and even then his response of let me just sit here and ponder why the lances are the same instead of doing anything got me angry. I get that he was confused and trying to figure out what was going on but he does nothing to stop Shinji until it's far too late.
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>>123353878
Yeah the one they gave to the woman that couldn't press the button due to emotional attachments and inadvertently helped to cause Fourth Impact because of it.
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>>123353963
Exactly. Again, I agree Misato was misrepresented. At least we're on common grounds now.
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>>123353820
>She's pissed off too and she has every right to be.
We aren't talking about some random Billy Bob anymore. Misato knew Shinji had no fucking idea that saving Rei (or trying to save her) would cause an impact.
>>
>>123354070
Not to mention she spurred him on when Unit 01 went far past berserk and told Shinji to do what he wanted to do for himself and nobody else.
>>
>>123354070
>We aren't talking about some random Billy Bob anymore. Misato knew Shinji had no fucking idea that saving Rei (or trying to save her) would cause an impact.
That doesn't mean anything when you kill billions of people and almost completely destroy the world. This isn't leaving the oven on or burning the toast kind of mistake. I'm sure she still loves him, but I'm sure she'd be incredibly pissed off. I don't know why I need to keep repeating this. Billions of people. Almost extinction of all life on earth.
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>>123353902
No that's weird.
>>
>>123353476
>but she did.
Then why is she the one talking about blame? Why is she in a position of power in Wille? She has more guilt in third impact, for not informing Shinji of the Eva's World Ending mode, than he does for accidentally unleashing it.

Think about what happened. Shinji, a 14 year old kid conscripted under vastly inmoral means, after finally quitting Nerv; the most rushed, improvised, disorganized and corner-less organization conceivable for protecting humanity, which was really a front for a world ending conspiracy; had to run back to the Eva to save humanity, and more specifically, a girl he loved. He had to defeat Zeruel to do that, and to do THAT, he had to Awaken Unit-01. Once the battery ran out, it was all over for him.

Either he gave up, and let humanity, and Rei, die; or He awakened the Eva to defeat Zeruel. Once he awakened the Eva, through means that were unknown to him, the fate of life on earth was sealed. These where all the options available to him.

So, to review, Shinji did the best he could in a situation completely planned to alienate him from his own freedom to act, by Gendo and Seele; while Ritsuko kept from him the information necessary to avoid it from happening.

How is he guilty? If a pilot has to fly a plane for a a week straight, or else the plane explodes when the cabin door opens and kills the passengers, and then he fails and crashes because of tiredness, it's not HIS fault. It's the fault of those who planted the bomb.
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>>123354191
O-Oh, okay. Maybe I'm just a pervert then.
>>
>>123354226
Hell, he didn't even want to awaken the Eva. He had no idea he could even do that. All he wanted to do was being back Ayanami however he could and the Eva fulfilled that wish. He had no knowledge of what Eva really was, its capabilities, the fact that it could start another Impact, nothing.
>>
>>123354226
>Why is she in a position of power in Wille? She has more guilt in third impact, for not informing Shinji of the Eva's World Ending mode, than he does for accidentally unleashing it.
Probably because she's a super genius who's mind is quite possibly one of the most valuable things existing? She's not the one who pulled the trigger. Shinji is.

No need to respond to the rest of the post. I'll just be spouting "billions of dead people" and "almost destruction of earth" again, and I'm sure you are as sick of hearing it as I am saying it.
>>
>>123353820
>Guess what, a lot of people complain that those random dick heads are pissed off. At least you accept that it makes sense that they'd be pissed off.
I don't give two fucks what "a lot of people" complain about. Respond to my arguments, not the arguments of some vague subsection of the population.

>She lost respect for him
Why? She knows that Shinji isn't at fault, right? What could Shinji have done to make Misato lose respect for him?

>hence the collar again, symbolism
Shitty movies can have symbolism too.

>She changed from 14 years of war, being leader of Wille, and the threat of angels around the corner. It'd make sense that she's more rugged and not hopping all over Shinji, tears in her eyes as she asks if he's okay.
Obviously, but I can't see why this would change her actual opinion on Shinji as a whole. And again, this is all assumed. We don't get to see any of this development.

>She's pissed off too and she has every right to be.
No, she doesn't. Shinji literally did nothing wrong. I already explained this and why she would know.

>Asuka is just Asuka being tsundere, but her character was ruined by 2.22 anyways.
At least you have some taste.

>>123354168
>That doesn't mean anything when you kill billions of people and almost completely destroy the world. This isn't leaving the oven on or burning the toast kind of mistake. I'm sure she still loves him, but I'm sure she'd be incredibly pissed off. I don't know why I need to keep repeating this. Billions of people. Almost extinction of all life on earth.
Do you understand what intent is? If you understand the thought processes and circumstances behind somebody's actions, they can be forgiven for just about anything, no matter how severe. This is especially true when the person taking said action lacks all of the information necessary.
>>
>>123354389
>We don't get to see any of this development.

And herein lies the biggest issue with 3.33. We see none of the development that could put either side of this argument from you two to rest. And that is, in part, why 3.33 was shittier in comparison to the other movies.
>>
>>123354389
>I don't give two fucks what "a lot of people" complain about. Respond to my arguments, not the arguments of some vague subsection of the population.
I'm having a conversation with multiple people. How about you try reading the conversation?
>Why? She knows that Shinji isn't at fault, right? What could Shinji have done to make Misato lose respect for him?
Shinji IS at fault. Like it or not, intentional or not, he is. How many times do I need to say this?
>Obviously, but I can't see why this would change her actual opinion on Shinji as a whole. And again, this is all assumed. We don't get to see any of this development.
see >>123354168
>No, she doesn't. Shinji literally did nothing wrong. I already explained this and why she would know.
Except for kill billions of people and almost destroy the world. That is what happened at the end of 2.22, right?
>Do you understand what intent is? If you understand the thought processes and circumstances behind somebody's actions, they can be forgiven for just about anything, no matter how severe. This is especially true when the person taking said action lacks all of the information necessary.
Sure, maybe down the line he can be forgiven. Doesn't change the fact that people are still gonna be pretty pissed off at him when they see him walking around. Alive.
>>
Because the presentation sucks, I don't understand how people can say that 3.0 goes back to the spirit of the original series. Its style is nothing similar.

3.0 is closer to the Eva ripoffs that came out during the late 90s and early 00s like Rahxephon than to Evangelion. Superficially its confusing way of presentation may seem familiar but it has none of the spark that made the original what it is.
>>
>>123354455
>see any
It was explained though. You don't need moving pictures for this. You're complaining that there weren't any moving pictures then get pissed off about the character development. But I still agree Misato was misrepresented.
>>
>>123354168
>>123354376
Look, when you judge a crime, the amount of damage is meaningless you where not responsible.

If a girl skipping rope tripped, and somehow ended the earth by splitting an atom with her nose, it would not be her fault.

The magnitude of the crime is meaningless if there is no "Mens rea"

Keep posting until YOU get sick of it, it wont change anything.

If I drink a glass of water, and cause a vacuum metastability event, ending the universe, I won't be guilty of it.
>>
>>123354568
I think the issue between you and the guy that you're arguing with is that you're saying you wouldn't be responsible for consequences of your actions that you had no knowledge could even happen (which I personally agree with) and he's saying that you don't need to be guilty of said consequences to still be blamed for them.

If everyone in Eva could look at all the facts and view things objectively then nobody would blame Shinji because it, objectively, is not his fault. But people aren't objective when the world's close to ending and the human race is near extinct.
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>>123354498
>Shinji IS at fault.
This is the core of the issue. But how in the sweet fuck can you possibly say this? Shinji had NO FUCKING CLUE what he was doing at the end of 2.22! Gendo and SEELE were the only people who knew that Unit-01 could even cause an Impact, and Shinji only triggered it by accident. Like >>123354568 says, the severity of the crime is meaningless if he isn't responsible.
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>>123354568
>Look, when you judge a crime, the amount of damage is meaningless you where not responsible.
Oh goody, you decided to bring up judgment.
Perhaps you need to look up the term "manslaughter" and see the sentencing for that in almost all countries in the world. Intentional or unintentional manslaughter still yields a punishment, not a cup of hot cocoa while we talk about our problems. That's the real world. People are judged for problems they caused. maybe you need to step away from the computer for a bit so you can understand this basic aspect of human interaction?
>>
>>123346447
>original EVA
>hedgehog syndrome
>muh dad never loved me
>muh hating dolls because it's remind me to my pathetic mom
>ranaway from piloting EVA
>I'm piloting my mother from her womb
>not emo
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>>123354657
>But how in the sweet fuck can you possibly say this? Shinji had NO FUCKING CLUE what he was doing at the end of 2.22!
Ignorance of the law doesn't make someone innocent. He still killed people. The characters still don't know what the viewer knows.
Again, you issue is that you're using your view points as a viewer and placing them on the characters. Then you're getting pissed off when they don't see what you see.
Regardless, it's still an objective fact that Shinji was responsible for the death of billions of people and the near destruction of the world.
>>
>>123354568
>a vacuum metastability event
I just looked that up and holy fuck that's terrifying.
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>>123354753
Shinji was literally in a no-win situation. Either he gets in the fucking robot and, as we know, inevitably starts the Third Impact or he doesn't get in, the Angel reaches Lilith and Third Impact starts anyway.

The difference is that Shinji didn't want the Third Impact. He just wanted to save Rei. He's a victim of circumstance like everyone else.
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>>123354675
Criminal negligence at the very least needs to be established before you can convict someone of manslaughter. That's like if you wildly fire a weapon and accidentally kill someone. This situation is more like if I was eating a peanut butter sandwich, accidentally rubbed some of it on a dude next to me, and they had a severe allergic reaction and died. Is that bad? Absolutely. Would people close to the person who died be angry at me? Maybe. Would I feel guilty? Probably. But am I actually at fault, and would any person actually thinking things through think I was? Of course not.
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>>123354498
>Shinji IS at fault. Like it or not, intentional or not, he is. How many times do I need to say this?
Since you like using dumb examples so much, have this.
A ten year old asks his dad: "Hey can I have that gun of yours?"
"Yeah sure, why not? Go for it!"
Hours later, that police show up, and inform you that your kid has murdered two people.
"That fucking idiot, he's fucking useless I swear to god... So anyways, I'm cool right? I didn't kill anyone or anything. Take the kid, he shot the gun, It's his fault."
You're the dad.
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>>123354862
I completely agree with you, Anonymous.
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>>123354874
I dunno, you'd be kinda at fault. Who the fuck would just smear peanut butter on a stranger? You have a good point but you used a bad analogy. I agree with you though.
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>>123354555
>You don't need moving pictures for this. You're complaining that there weren't any moving pictures then get pissed off about the character development.

You have to admit that this is poor storytelling though. Using cheap exposition as an alternative for real character development is stupid and lazy. Also, I find it odd that you act like we are being childish for asking to be shown things in a visual format as opposed to having them lazily told to us.
>>
>>123354874
>But am I actually at fault, and would any person actually thinking things through think I was?
Yes you are at fault. You caused said death.
Again, viewers and characters. Keep that theme in your head.

>>123354875
Why do you keep using examples where the person in question is a child and not a teenager?
I'll humor you and give you a literal exact same scenario but I'll place you in the mind of the characters.
>family is run over by a 14 year old in a car
>boy crashes into your house, completely destroying it
>you're the only survivor
>judgment day has arrived, judge is about to sentence the 14 year old
>14 year old quickly says, "But I didn't know any better!!"
>"Oh... Well then if you didn't know any better. Chase dismissed!"
How do you feel about this? Keep in mind what the characters feel in the series, not what you as a viewer impose on the characters.
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>>123354999
This. Good storytelling is equal amounts of show and tell. We were told a lot of things, we saw very few. That is my fundamental issue with 3.33.
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>>123354999
>You have to admit that this is poor storytelling though.
It's exposition. It's the oldest and most commonly used form of story telling in recorded history.
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>>123354455
It would have really helped to see the development, but the result of that unseen development is still pretty unavoidably stupid.

They were going for some sort of DEEP symbolism by turning Misato into Gendo 2.0. Misato had become are replacement parental figure to him, but she rejects him as Gendo did. Shini's development is in a loop, as is the narrative, by design. It's like poetry; it rhymes.

However, just like the headcanon the fanboy in the this thread is spewing, having an explanation for why something is the way it is doesn't make the way it is good.

Unless 3.33's intentions were to confuse and infuriate us, it was ineffective in pretty much everything it tried to achieve.
>>
It has no plot, no character progression, most of the characters in it do nothing, and the timeskip was completely unnecessary.

It's the Anti-Movie Equation. By derailing the momentum the first two movies built up, it destroyed the movie series.
>>
>>123354955
I intended for it to be an accident. I suppose that isn't clear. Instead, imagine you just pull the sandwich out and they die.
>>
>>123354675
Nice, an ad hominem. What's next, telling me that I am too invested in the discussion?

First of all, Manslaughter.

It can be divided between Construsctive (When it was an unintended consequence of another crime you committed) and Criminaly negligent (When, had a rational person been in your case, they would have not committed the crime).

Shinji's situation falls in neither case. He was not committing another crime (Eva piloting is a morally gray area, I'd believe; and also a war situation), and no "rational person" could have done different. Either they failed to activate the eva, or they did enede the earth in the process.

If your car fails, because of an undetected fault, and you run over a kindly old lady, or even, crash into a kindergarten, there is no guilt on your head .

Though you would feel like shit. But you should really blame the Car's Builders.

>>123354818

Read it on a pop-sci-fi online magazine when I was young, it get's you really desensitized to the fate of the universe. We're random NPC's on the border of the LOD of the universe, running on some horribly coded emulator that may crash at any instant.
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>>123355064
Yes, and also the laziest and least effective, in most cases. Flat exposition should be avoided at all costs and used only as a last resort. That said, it is necessary in many cases. Besides, the events in between 2.0 and 3.0 only explain why Misato might be angry, not what mental processes, justifications, or struggles she might have had in coming to that conclusion. Anything that can be said about Misato's motivations in hating Shinji are mostly speculation.
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>>123355029
>Why do you keep using examples where the person in question is a child and not a teenager?

Because teenagers are children? Because teenagers can't make rational decisions, especially when they're piloting world-ending death machines? Because teenagers are fucking stupid?

They essentially forced a child (and yes, that IS what a teenager is, they're fucking children) into a monstrous being with world-ending latent powers, told him to go kill other monsters, and then when he leaves he has no choice but to return or watch someone he cares about die and then the world ends anyway. All of this is while said child is extremely fucked up emotionally and psychologically after being abandoned and discarded as a child to the point that he feels worthless and that the only reason people want him around is because he can pilot.

You're trying to hold an emotionally, psychologically damaged kid responsible for actions that he had no clue in the world he could cause, and didn't even know he did until over a decade in the future (and he was told of said actions not by a loved one, but by someone he had just met at that).
>>
>>123355029
>How do you feel about this?
"Who the fuck let him drive the car?". That's what I would be asking.
First immediate reaction? Yeah, I'd probably want to strangle the kid. But after having some time to think about it? It was the parents (or whoever was in charge of him) fault. The kid literally didn't know any better.
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>>123355246
You are making the critical mistake of not looking at it in the character's point of view while imposing your view as a viewer onto these characters.

>>123355260
>Because teenagers are children? Because teenagers can't make rational decisions, especially when they're piloting world-ending death machines? Because teenagers are fucking stupid?
Shit you're right. Teenagers should never be punished for anything ever because they just don't know better in the end.
Alas, semantics at this point.
>child (and yes, that IS what a teenager is, they're fucking children)
Well except for the whole sexual maturity thing and the whole age of consent thing being much lower all over the world then it is in the US, but I digress.
>You're trying to hold an emotionally, psychologically damaged kid responsible for actions that he had no clue in the world he could cause, and didn't even know he did until over a decade in the future
Doesn't change the fact he was responsible. Again, think about the characters with the point of view the characters would have, not what you the viewer has imposed on them. This is the critical mistake you're making and you just aren't willing to correct it.
>>
>>123355387
Also, if the analogy was actually fair, you'd have to imagine a car without windows, that cannot be stopped once it starts, and was stationed over a train track before the kid started it.
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>>123355387
Okay, so you'd be immediately pissed.
Now take that feeling and multiply it by a billion.
Then think about it in the shoes of the characters without knowing what you the viewer knows.
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>>123355458
You keep going
>you're just looking at it as the viewer
but have you ever stopped once to consider that maybe it's the characters that are looking at it incorrectly? Yeah, I get it, there's a lot of grief and anger that the kid started the end of the world. He was in suspended animation for 14 years. At some point you put aside your personal feelings and look at things with some objectivity, especially when what's remaining of the world is riding on your shoulders.
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>>123355458
>Shit you're right. Teenagers should never be punished for anything ever because they just don't know better in the end.
Yes. If teenagers end up committing crimes, they are not responsible. Either their parents or their community or both have failed them. What a kid needs at that point is help, not punishment.
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>>123355029
This analogy is shitty too because there are people that have experienced things like that that have forgiven those that that did such things to them.
>>
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>The aircraft crashed after a captain allowed his child to manipulate the controls of the plane. The pilot's 11 year old daughter and 16 year old son were taking turns in the pilot's seat. While the boy was flying, he inadvertently disengaged the autopilot linkage to the ailerons and put the airliner in a bank of 90 degrees which caused the nose to drop sharply. The co-pilot pulled back on the yoke to obtain level flight but the plane stalled. With his seat pulled all the way back, the co-pilot in the right hand seat could not properly control the aircraft. After several stalls and rapid pull-ups the plane went into a spiral descent. In the end the co-pilot initiated a 4.8g pull-up and nearly regained a stable flight path but the aircraft struck the ground in an almost level attitude killing all aboard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrttTR8e8-4

Wow, that 16 year old son sure was a piece of shit, wasn't he?
>>
>>123355519
>Then think about it in the shoes of the characters without knowing what you the viewer knows.
Willie should know almost everything we know as viewers.
>>
>>123355458
>You are making the critical mistake of not looking at it in the character's point of view while imposing your view as a viewer onto these characters.

What. How does this change ANYTHING about the situation.

Shinji didn't know about the Eva's world ending power.

Shinji couldn't have stopped the Angel without unwittingly tapping into said power.

No one else who had known that told him that.

I know this, Ritsuko and Misato SHOULD know this.

They had fourteen years to think about it,and they chose to punish him.

Either they DIDN'T know, and could not have possibly known this, or they did, and punished him out of spite.

If the later, they are not the heroes of this story, and Anno is not really managing to portray this.
>>
>>123355548
>but have you ever stopped once to consider that maybe it's the characters that are looking at it incorrectly?
How are they looking at it incorrectly? All most of these people know is that Shinji caused the near third impact. Hard to sympathize with someone who fucked up so badly they almost destroyed the world.
>>
I've watch 1.11 and 2.22 but not 3.33 because of horrible art. I can't believe they ruined Asuka's character. Whats up with the black eye patch and horrible character design
>>
>>123349778
When 13 activates it crosses to this scene on the Wunder where this flashes on a screen and an alarm goes off. I don't think they knew anything was there at all until it activated.

C'mon man, this is Eva. You have to a examine every bit of background psychobabble and words on a screen and analyze them like it's fucking CSI and then debate for years on end about what they mean just to make some tiny semblance of the plot. That's just how it's written because Anno is insistent on the idea that Eva is about the characters, not mecha and organizations and impacts. This goes for Rebuild as well as NGE.
>>
>look at it from the characters point of view
>look at it from the characters point of view
>look at it from the characters point of view
>look at it from the characters point of view
>look at it from the characters point of view

THE CHARACTERS KNEW SHINJI WAS UNAWARE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF AN IMPACT HAPPENING
If anything, they would be blaming Gendo and/or themselves for not telling him about the power of the Evas.
>>
>>123355651
>All most of these people know is that Shinji caused the near third impact.

I don't think this is correct. They wouldn't have all left NERV if all they thought was that some brat that's now up in space almost ended the world. At some point SOMEONE who knew what the fuck was really going on, i.e. Ritsuko, Kaji, Misato, someone would have had to have told them what Evas really are and what they're capable of. Otherwise why would that one girl have told Shinji to not pilot Eva again?
>>
>>123355586
>Yes. If teenagers end up committing crimes, they are not responsible. Either their parents or their community or both have failed them. What a kid needs at that point is help, not punishment.
Reality and human interaction completely disagrees. That's your problem, you're out of touch with these aspects. Juvenal hall exists.
>>123355643
>Shinji didn't know about the Eva's world ending power.
Doesn't change the fact he killed billions of people and almost destroyed the earth.
>Shinji couldn't have stopped the Angel without unwittingly tapping into said power.
Doesn't change the fact he killed billions of people and almost destroyed the earth.
>Either they DIDN'T know, and could not have possibly known this, or they did, and punished him out of spite.
>punished him out of spite
For killing billions of people and almost destroying the earth.
>>
>>123355704
>THE CHARACTERS KNEW SHINJI WAS UNAWARE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF AN IMPACT HAPPENING
They did? Everyone knows this? Misato MAYBE, but everyone?
>>
Is 3.33 discussion ever not toxic?
>>
>>123355773
>>Yes. If teenagers end up committing crimes, they are not responsible. Either their parents or their community or both have failed them. What a kid needs at that point is help, not punishment.
>Reality and human interaction completely disagrees.
Are you literally retarded?
>>
It doesn't even make sense that so many are dead because of what happened at the end of 2.22. Everybody standing right there were the explosion happened was just fine. Misato, Ritsuko, just dandy.

But everybody else that got caught in it died? Is it one of those "eye of the storm" things? And Kaworu stopped it a couple of seconds later.

What was that thing at the beginning of 3.33 that Eva Unit 01 was in and how did they get it in there and into space?

How the fuck did WILLE get a giant airship? That thing looks fucking silly.

What's the point of introducing even MORE characters with the airship bridge crew when they weren't even utilizing the OLD characters?

Is Nerv now just Gendo and Fuyutsuki just hanging out in an abandoned facility?

Also, Kaworu's sacrifice is meaningless, because if he could remove the collar from Shinji, he easily could have removed it from himself, too. The symbolic gesture is pointless.

What a shit movie. The only hope for the fourth movie is to pretend the third never happened and just pick up where 2.22 left off.
>>
>>123355810
No because 3.33 is inherently shit. Bad movie creates bad discussion that's essentially nothing but speculation because it was poorly written and executed.
>>
>>123355810
Kinda the reason I didn't want to get into this to begin with. It always degrades to people spouting "but he didn't know better!" then later on agreeing they'd be pissed but are still confused why the characters are pissed.
It's a never ending cycle. Still fun though.
>>
>>123355734
IIRC they were evacuating the facilities anyway, what with having an angel stumbling inside of it.

>>123355773
You DO realize that everyone is telling you why that point is moot, right?

Are you trolling?

HEY, people on this thread, is he trolling?
>>
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>>123355810
Take a wild guess.
>>
>>123355859
Talking about you too m8.
>>
>>123355836
You're out of touch with reality. Teenagers are punished for their actions all the time. Don't pretend like they aren't so you can win an internet argument.
>>
>>123355854
>Is Nerv now just Gendo and Fuyutsuki just hanging out in an abandoned facility?

NERV was Gendo, Fuyutsuki, Kaworu, and Rei Q. That's all that was left. Which makes me wonder how the hell they built fresh Evas at all, especially when the headquarters was run down to shit.

>>123355870
They were evacuating because of Zeruel's attack yes but that's no reason for a huge walk-out and for them to turn against NERV unless they were explicitly told about what Gendo really had planned or what the Evas really were.
>>
>>123355904
The fact that people are being punished for something doesn't make it just or right. People are also punished for being political dissidents or having a particular color of skin. That doesn't mean those people deserve that.
>>
>>123355870
>he dindu nuffin
>I understand he didn't know better, but killing that many people is a serious fuck up. Is it really unbelievable that people would be sour about this?
>He was a gud boy!
>Really, though. That's a lot of people. I know he didn't know any better, but that doesn't really dampen the blow. Everything these people knew and loved is gone now. Everything.
>Yea but he didn't know any better.
>Yes I know this, but that doesn't change the fact that everything went to shit. It's not a crazy thought that people would be mad at him.
>Yea but he didn't know any better.
>This wasn't spilled milk. He changed the lives of every single person on the planet for the worse.
>Yea but like... he REALLY didn't know any better. And he's super sorry about it.
Part of the reason I didn't want to get into this discussion.
>>
>>123355870
>HEY, people on this thread, is he trolling?
No, I think he's just stupid.
>>
>>123355979
>People are also punished for being political dissidents or having a particular color of skin.
Oh. You're THAT person. That explains it.
>>
Remember when 3.33 was supposed to tell us things about Mari?

AHAHAHAHA, what a pointless character.
>>
>>123355630
>2393 Kudrinsky: We'll come out in a sec. Everything's all right ... Gently [unintelligible], gently ... Pull up gently!
>2400 [Sound of impact, end of recording]
Jesus Christ.
Real life is scary.
>>
>>123356038
Listening to black box audio is probably some of the most sobering shit you can do. It's terrifying to hear what happens before a crash.
>>
>>123356004
>Part of the reason I didn't want to get into this discussion.
Because you don't have any other arguments other than muh billions of deaths?
>>
>>123356032
Oh yeah, fuck ANYONE who thinks people should have rights or something. What fucking assholes.
>>
>>123356037
Even the ending of the manga that dealt with the flashback felt shoehorned in.
>>
>>123356067
>muh billions of deaths
Well yea. Kinda a big fuck up.
>>
>>123356105
Still should be blamed on Gendo rather than Shinji. Shinji was being manipulated.
>>
>>123355904
>Teenagers are punished for their actions all the time.
That doesn't make their parents less guilty.
>>
>>123355904
WHEN THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE.Get THAT
through your skull.

If someone punishes you for something unavoidable. They are wrong.

What's unavoidable? Something that neither you, nor anyone that could have been in your place could have avoided.

>>123356004

>he dindu nuffin

is this a meme? it comes time and again in this fucking arguments, where does it come from?

IF YOU CAN'T PREVENT SOMETHING FROM HAPPENING, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.

Is this a concept too COMPLEX for you.

Have you ever been abused, anon? Been victim of an undue punishment for a crime you didn't commit?

Why do you so adamantly impose guilt onto those that have no way of avoiding their situation?

It boggles the mind, seriously, what is WRONG with you?
>>
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>>123356135
Characters point of view, Anonymous.
>>
>>123355654
>Whats up with the black eye patch
Missing eye is a likely meaningless reference to EoE.

Shikinami's eyepatch also glows randomly, because apparently 3.33 is co-written by Kishimoto Masashi.
>>
>>123356169
Characters have the exact same information as I do, Anon. They should know that Gendo is behind it all, unless they are stupid.
>>
So basically what this anon is saying is that the people who should be blamed for 9/11 are the pilots of the planes.
Al Qaeda are a-ok.
>>
>>123345672
>Rei is boring and emotionless submissive girl, Asuka is a fiery redheaded tsundere action girl, Misato is a cold and calm commander, Gendo is a cool and distant schemer, Kaworu is gay piano playing butt buddy.
So basically he watered down all the characters to a couple of traits and got rid of the all the artistic merit of NGE.

BRAVO ANNO
>>
>>123356037
If there was ever an argument that Anno doesn't know what they fuck he's doing with Rebuild it's Mari. She's the living embodiment of the shallow fanservice fantasy girl. That's everything NGE argued against. Even if Rebuild is secretly a cynical take on the NGE fanbase or whatever that still doesn't explain why Mari is there. Or why she's no less shallow in 3.33 than she is in 2.22.
>>
>>123356169
Literally everyone at NERV knows Gendo is pulling the strings.
>>
>>123356143
Doesn't make the person in question not liable for blame.

>>123356145
>WHEN THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE.Get THAT
through your skull.
So that wasn't Shinji piloting unit 01 at the end of 2.22?
Like it or not, he was responsible. He did it.
>IF YOU CAN'T PREVENT SOMETHING FROM HAPPENING, IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.
Calm down. See >>123356004
I'm saying that it can make sense that there are characters that would be pissed off at Shinji for starting the 3rd impact. You're saying that's impossible because the world is a hugbox and everyone gets along and are super forgiving.
>>
>>123356272
>Doesn't make the person in question not liable for blame.
Actually, that's exactly what it does. If you cause somebody property damage as a child, your parents are the ones who have to pay said damage, not you.
>>
>WILLE


WILLIE is a retarded name for an organization
>>
>>123356330
>child
There's that word again.
>>
>>123356363
Legal minor, dumbass.
>>
>>123356169
Even if by some miracle they didn't know Gendo orchestrated everything, Gendo is literally the most suspicious motherfucker on the planet and would be suspect number 1.
>>
The only thing that makes me dislike 3.33 is reading people argue about it. Not because they convince me that it's bad, but because it's fucking irritating.
>>
>>123356387
Japan's age of consent is 13. Shinji isn't a legal minor.
>>
>>123345672
Superficial dumbass : the OP
>>
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Threadly reminder that we're still following NGE's plot

>Shinji wakes up from a long nap within Unit 01
>Misato and Asuka are emotionally distant
>Kaji and all the classmates are never seen again
>Shinji finds out the Rei he knows is dead and has been replaced, making him feel awkward around her
>Shinji feels like he can only trust in Kaworu now
>Shinji, Kaworu and Rei descend down to Terminal Dogma
>Kaworu realizes he made a mistake, and lets himself get killed for Shinji's sake
>Shinji becomes depressed and catatonic, being yelled at and dragged by the wrist by a 28-9 year old who wears red and black with purple somewhere in her color scheme as well
>>
>>123356409
Yes he is. Age of consent only governs when you can consent to sex. Age of majority is 20 in Japan. Not like that even matters that much.
>>
>>123356342
Well they're a retarded organization so what can you do.
>>
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>>123356409
Adulthood is 20 in Japan. Minors can have legal sex in the 'States as well, and that's completely irrelevant to adulthood.
>>
You guys are all making a common mistake. You're assuming that Evangelion 3.33 is actually a direct sequel to Evangelion 2.22.

Actually, The 'Shinji' we see in 3.33 is the only connection to the rebuilds there is. The setting of 3.33 is post-Third Impact seen in End of Eva.
>>
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>>123345672
Am I the only one who found grumpy Shikinami to be very moe?
>>
>>123356460
Huh. That's interesting. Can have sex with old men before being able to be held responsible for killing billions of people.
>>
>>123356272
First of all, it's not about forgivance, it's about justice. Those who punish the innocent to sate their need for revenge are unjust people.

In a story where they rag about their "Ship of Hope" and "Bearing your sins" and such niceties, it makes no sense for them to also be Unjust.

If they ARE, then they are not the Heroes of this story. And, to be blunt, Anno is not saying that, and he is either a hack, or an asshole to propose that this is how heroes should be.

But another thing, are you implying anything by saying:
>"You're saying that's impossible because the world is a hugbox and everyone gets along and are super forgiving"
Because you seem to be implying something. And that speaks more about yourself, than anything else, and what it says, to be frank, adds no positives to your credibility as a honest member of the conversation.
>>
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>>123356468

I just think it's telling that Misato's team is named after penis slang
>>
>>123356549
You're not the only one. Shame about the lack of characterization, though.
>>
>>123356588
Even after the world's end she can't get her mind off dick.
>>
>>123356550
Again, he didn't kill millions of people, he was manipulated into taking a course of action that ended up triggering a series of events that he had no knowledge of and no way of reasonably preventing that ended up killing billions of people. But you are clearly either 15 years old, and idiot, or both, so I'm done. Have a good night and enjoy your cartoons, anon-kun.
>>
>>123356668
Oh so it wasnt Shinji in the Eva. I think I need to get my eyes checked.
>>
>>123356549
I would have liked it if they'd mellowed her out a little more. I don't believe anyone can maintain that level of being pissed off at everything for over a decade.
>>
Only people who hate on 3.0 are newfags and people who preten to like Eva but never actually watched it. Literally like the MGS fanbase
>>
>>123356668
That's really really fancy way of saying "Shinji started the third impact."
>>
>>123356668
I really hate when characters aren't perfectly logical omnipotent machines too.
>>
>>123356831
There's still Rei.
>>
>>123356761
>no true scotsman
It's okay if you don't want to view things you like critically, but then you probably shouldn't participate in critical discussions of the subject.
>>
>>123356831
No one in the thread was arguing that he should be omnipotent and all-knowing.
>>
I love the movie, and those Kaworu and Shinji scenes. Especially when Kaworu became delicious strawberry jelly. Yum!

I would also like to fuck Rei Q.
>>
>>123356798
>>123356831
If you throw a pebble behind your back, it goes into a car, and turns the ignition key, making it start, an step on someones feet, who had it placed directly bellow the wheel breaking it, did you break his feet? Is it your fault?
>>
>>123345672
well, normal people can tell that the entire plot could have been avoided with simple communication. This is what makes it so stupid. When the film has a flaw so big, it cannot be good. Objectively speaking.

the rest, subjective stuff. Some people didn't like the time skip and how they try to make the characters more 'cool and edgy'. Keeping asuka and the others young serves no purpose as well and was an asspull just to keep the characters 'normal'. Problem is, they still act like kids, not just look like kids so it was a poorly executed idea. People are shitting on the MC for no reason as well. It was kinda of their own fault.

i didn't like the new movies because of how Shiny they are. Evangelion was always a very dark series and those movies glow too much. It's like comparing diablo 2 with diablo 3 in the level of glowness.
>>
>>123356729
>I don't believe anyone can maintain that level of being pissed off at everything for over a decade.

Given the circumstances and Asuka's predilections I found it plausible enough.
>>
>>123356905
No, but they'd sooner get an aneurysm then agree he made a mistake and that its possible people might be sour at him.
>>
>>123356936
She'd lie their like a fish and be completely unreceptive. You sure?
>>
>>123356971
>if you caused something bad to happen is it your fault
Yes.
>>
>>123356971
Partially, yes. Although that analogy places the chain of events too far off.
>>
>>123356982
Yes. I'll cause an existential crisis by telling her she's not Rei and then tell her to do what she would do and not what Rei would do even if that means she punches me in my dick.
>>
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>>123356761
Asuka... had a hard life
>>
>>123356549

Yeah. You're the only one on the entire internet, including the Japanese internet, who thought this.
>>
>>123357007
Is the Academy of Fine Arts Vienna responsible for the Holocaust, and WW2?
>>
>>123356761

I've been an Eva fan for about 15 years now, and I hated 3.0...I'm not quite sure how you drew your conclusion, but it's wrong.
>>
Because it's shit.
>>
>>123357114
That analogy is really fucking stupid.
>>
>>123357114
Well, if Hitler's art was received well enough, it isn't that much of a stretch to assume that WW2 would not have happened or under very different circumstances.

Of course, there were much more influential events in his life that made him enter the NSDAP and take it over etc etc.

>>123357190
This too.
>>
>>123357114
Just stop. It's embarrassing.
>>
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>>123357073
>"big bossu"
>Obviously using Old Snake's Solid Eye.
>>
>>123357190
You are really fucking stupid.
>>
>>123357190
His argument boils down to

>if you where part of the material cause of a crime, you are guilty.

I just took it to it's maximal expression. Also, that way I can other things about him.
>>
>>123356761
i was the entire movie thinking "WTF, why they didn't just FUCKING TOLD HIM all that?"

it is just that bad.
>>
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>>123357215
This is a sneaking mission
>>
>>123356979
It's not a huge hole in the movie or anything I just think an older more tired Asuka would have fit really well. I feel like the better scenes for her sorta did that.
>>
>>123348343
>200 replies later
>still nobody explained this
>>
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>>123357322
I get you. I imagine fourteen barren years aren't the easiest thing to shoulder.
>>
>>123357322
> It's not a huge
not the biggest one in that movie, at least. But yeah, the entire concept of an adult in the body of a kid and the time skip weren't worked very well.
>>
>>123357400
>>123357322
I like to think "curse of EVA" didn't stop all aging, but I want a real Christmas cake Asuka!
>>
>>123357419
Like I said there was some of what I was looking for. The problem was it was usually accompanied by her being pissy and passive aggressive which I guess makes sense in context but still felt like the wrong move.
>>
>>123357529
i simply cannot accept that she is an adult somehow. It makes me question if the 'no aging' thing was just put there so they could still keep the character as a whole, but in another time.
>>
>>123357341
Can't explain what makes no sense.
>>
>>123357587
To be fair, a good number of adults don't act their age.
>>
>>123357601
let's just agree that the film is objectively bad.
>>
>>123357659
>objectively

You'll get some shit over that, and there were parts of it I liked but I honestly agree. It just did not live up to what I expected, and maybe that's my fault for expecting too much.
>>
>>123357626
problem is, we don't get to see other characters change as well, with some exceptions. Everyone is just.... the same. It's like they completely ignore the time skip for the characters and do it only for the world and throw the same characters there.
>>
>>123357587
I have a feeling the Curse of Eva was planned way before 3.0 since signs point to Mari having been under it's effects since around second impact. If it was planned just for merch purposes Anno has some serious foresight or rewrote huge parts of the story to facilitate it. I just think they failed to execute or maybe didn't want to try and change up characters personalities so soon after their Rebuild introductions. He should have just done a shorter timeskip.
>>
>>123357689
i have to say i didn't expect all that on that movie... time skip, and all the bullshit. But somehow... it could have be worst

i just finished Batman vs Robin today... i was already Expecting the movie to be very bad, and it's just...10x worst than i imagine Somehow... that kind of experience change my point of view on some things. From now on i will be prepared to be more disappointed than i should. Perhaps if i was expecting something a Lot worst from evangelion, i could think that the movie "wasn't that bad"... you get it?
>>
>>123357812
I just don't get why the hell they didn't pick up after Kaworu stopped Third Impact.
>>
>>123357854
If I had to speculate I'd say it's because Shinji actually did do something wrong in those 14 years and since we follow the story from his perspective Anno didn't want us watching 3.0 content while thinking "that little fucking shit" the whole time. Instead we get his exact perspective of not knowing what the fuck is going on to get the emotional connection.
>>
is it ok to fap to Asuka now since she is technically 28
>>
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>>123358316
It was always okay to fap to Asuka. Only mericunts will disagree.
>>
>>123351910
1.11 is ok and 2.22 is fucking terrible nothing has changed u cunt
>>
>>123352734
>>123352312

/a/ once again proving that 4chan is actually full of low iq neckbeards and that people on this board are so consumed in anime they don't understand what actually makes good writing.
>>
>>123345672
People just like to jump on the hatewagon.
>>
>>123356798
Let's be honest here. You know you wouldn't have done anything different in these circumstances. How would you (and I mean YOU) have known that the actions at the end of 2.22 would have destroyed the Earth? I mean there's just no way to know that doing that could end everything.

Also, all the Rebuilds sucked. 1.0 was a rehash. 2.0 was generic moe action shit. 3.0 was Anno attempting to be "edgy" while lacking all of the depth of the original. I got the feeling that 3.0 is supposed to be Anno yelling at his fans again. If that's true, couldn't he have a little integrity and get rid of all the waifu/husbando shit. It's getting fucking annoying.
>>
>>123360053
>2.0 was generic moe action shit.

what the fuck does that even mean

did you just throw the first two buzzwords you could think off together?
>>
>>123360067
Obviously. He was missing otaku pandering, though.
>>
>>123360126
I'll take that back a little. It did have generic moeshit (poka-poka) and spent way too much time on overhyped CG fight scenes that didn't look any better in the original. It had quite a bit on top of that as well though, especially in the second half of the movie. It wasn't as terrible as the other two though.

>>123360067
Anno's the type who would use that phrase. I believe he made 3.0 largely to piss people off. Not that 3.0 wasn't filled with Kawoshin TRAGIC ROMANCE and Mari... beast Evas... etc.
>>
>>123349707
>>123349778
>>123348343
I like how everyone takes this 14 years shit for granted even though this is anno we're dealing with.

Then WILLE never fought them, they probably had enough issues with the...yeah those guys current enemies whatever, and then they couldn't even get their ship to fly until they retrieved EVA-01 so they didn't really fight, you could basically say they were preparing all along, besides, Gendo was the only one who knew SEELE, so basically Misato's only link to the actual people behind the scene was Gendo, it was smart not to kill him.
>>
>>123356729
I find she's actually not as harsh as Soryuu. I haven't watched 3.33 tho.

>>123356549
Well she managed to destroy an angel all fucking alone in her fukken first debut appearance, so I like her better than Soryuu who blamed her incapability and errors to Shinji.
>>
>>123345672
>Who seriously prefers Soryu to Shikinami?
Everybody?
>>
>>123351831
>Timeskip kills all the momentum built by 2.22

That's the idea. EVA doesn't need Momentum, this isn't some Fullretard Alchemist

>Plot revolves around Shinji not knowing what the fuck is going on and making poor decisions because of it

No, it's about him getting manipulated in this harsh new world where nothing is stopping people from their sinful interest (i.e. gendo becoming god or whatever)

>All character building with Rei is reset

Yes, same happened in the original series (even though she had barely any there), but even more so, this is done in the manga, to a much harsher extent than here. The point of this is to inject despair into the plot, which is crucial for 3.33 's atmosphere

>All character building with Misato is reset

In the Rebuilds she had none, and it isn't reset in any way, at least if Kaji's still alive.

>Mari confirmed for useless

Nope, in fact according to that photo and EXTRA STAGE in manga, she is the Key to Rebuild's Lore and plot.

>That fucking cat

What

>Nothing new added between Kaworu and Shinji, it's still just bread and butter homolust

There's much less homolust here compared to manga or even the original show. It's obvious Kaworu had his own intentions behind helping Shinji, maybe even SEELE's plans, maybe he wanted to help Shinji afterall, but not out of love.

>We waited 3 years for this, and we've had to wait another 3(?) years for the conclusion.

That's how it works, surely 3.33 depends a whole lot on the next movie, but that's how movie series work.
>>
>>123357172
see
>>123361144
>>
>>123361023
>the post above you
>>
>>123345672
From Anno interview for being a director of new Godzilla film
>「2012年12月。エヴァ:Qの公開後、僕は壊れました。所謂、鬱状態となりました」
>Dec 2012, after releasing Eva Q, I was totally broken. So called, depressed.
「6年間、自分の魂を削って再びエヴァを作っていた事への、当然の報いでした」
>That was just a comeuppance for working on Eva again with all my soul for 6 years.
>>
>>123355630
Well after seeing this, I kinda get this >>123355773 anons point now.
Sure, the kids of the pilot didn't KNOW they were doing something wrong, yet at the same time I'm thinking "you retarded fucking bastards, this is your fucking fault".

However, rationally speaking, the pilot (Gendo) would be to blame and the kids are innocent. Still I am emotionally pissed at the 16 year old son, he should've known better.
>>
>>123356342
>>123356588

Wille means will, volition in german you retard.
Seele = soul
Nerv = nerve, neuron
(I mean I'm sure most of you know this, are you trolling?)

> tfw german poster and I understand all german references in animu (which weirdly there are a shitton of perfectly)
> tfw when there's a plot twist involving german terminology it's not a surprise to me
>>
>>123362772
Yes, because nobody is capable of googling a foreign word they don't get.
>>
>>123352617
FUCKING this
>>
If you enjoyed the rebuilds then you aren't a fan of the eva series, or you didn't get. You also can't claim to be a fan of cinema and good writing. The people trying to defend these trainwrecks are obese otaku retards
>>
>>123345672
The characters were not the way most people interpreted them.

Claiming that is insane, and the fact that most reject it is the absolute proof of that. Otherwise we would be seeing a different, more positive reaction.

Moreover, 3.0 wasnt a good movie or story either. It deserves the criticism it gets.
>>
>>123360944
>Misato's only link to the actual people behind the scene was Gendo, it was smart not to kill him.
But also leave him to do whatever the fuck he wants and destroy the world again?
That's retarded.
>>
>>123363919
well Misato isn't a super-logical machine, that can be seen in the original series aswell, she depends a whole lot on luck. Besides she was probably sure Gendo can't do shit without EVA-01.
>>
>>123362772
i didn't know about ones that aren't NERV until i read the retail manga which had all that shit explained.
>>
>>123364079
Sure, and she and Ritsuko also conveniently forgot the existence of the giant Lilith corpse in his basement?
>>
>>123361144
The original has momentum, and yes it does need momentum to work.

The momentum is the weight of the accumulated stories and development of the characters set in motion ny the plot.

Because 3.0 was a shallow shitfest, there is a lot of movement but not weight. If we were to say the original was a falling boulder, 3.0 was a near empty pillow.

A hug pillow in specific because it panders to otaku hard.
>>
>>123364236
did they know about? I mean, after the impact happened whenever it happened, after assumingly GNR caused impact, they couldn't know for sure if the body was intact, i mean if we saw the timeskip content rather than the 3.33 we would also assume that the corpse is gone unless confirmed otherwise, not only because it's logical, but because that's what happened in EoE too. To understand 3.33 you need to remember that this movie lives by it's own logic, not comparable to ours.
>>
But how did Shinji end up in space?

Did Gendou put him up there for safe keeping? I feel like there are more effective locations to store a teenage boy.
>>
>>123364352
>couldn't know for sure if the body was intact
>doesn't at least search the base considering the amount of man power WILLE get with all the old NERV staffs
>still got BTFO by the two 60-70 years old fags
I'll just stop here since you made it sound ever more retarded than it already is.
>>
>>123345672
Everything you just wrote was bullshit, and so inconsistent with reality you need to suffer some sort of delusion to write it seriously.
Let's review:

>People interpreted Rei as boring, emotionless and submissive
If that were the case, if she were indeed boring and emotionless, then she'd hardly be the most popular and praised character in the entire franchise. If that were the case yet somehow she was pop, Rei Q would be universally accepted and liked, yet nobody cares and almost actively avoids it.

>Asuka is a fiery redheaded tsundere action girl,
Also wrong considering this is a version of Asuka not recognized anywhere but the most shallow of otaku asukafags.

>Misato is a cold and calm commander
Not even close to what people think of Misato, the officer who takes in Shinji and is generally praised for that. Not exactly a cool and calm commander who also has an emotional arc where she cries and lets her heart out. More interpreted as fun really.

>Gendo
He is Yagami Light: Bearded Shallow Fuck edition in 3.0. So not even that vague three-adjective description works.

>Kaworu
The only one you'll be right in, and only because Kaworu is a shallow as hell character and always was. What must be said is that they've boosted him to hell and back for fanservice, which is new and quite frankly: disgusting.


The only thing this fits with in reality, is the ugly, bad side of the franchise. Who wants to call one of Japan's most celebrated, influential character "boring and emotionless"? Shallow, evilminded fans. Eva fans.
Who wants to view Asuka, a well-developed character as an "action girl"? Shallow, retarded otaku. Reducing the rest just to fanservice bullshit without any character?

You see where I'm going with this.

3.0 is, without any doubt, a mirror that shows you how absolutely disgusting much of the EVA fanbase is. The amount of destruction, lack of sense and pure escapism in 3.0 cannot be reflected from anything but the face of ugly eva otakudom.
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>>123364241
>yes it does need momentum to work
1) it doesn't. Never did. Fuck You.
2) That's an opinon, shove it up your ass
3) Again, fuck you, for not understanding eva.
>because 3.0 was a shallow shitfest
If anything, this discussion is a shallow shitfest until we see 3.0+1.0.
>3.0 was an empty pillow
yes because Rebuilds is a series and it isn't over yet. If you were shown Eva episodes up to 24 you'd also think that there was much pretentious bullshit but no real substance to it, until it all got put together by EoE.
>3.0 panders to otaku hard
I should've already realized this is some harcore bait but whatever. In fact 2.22 is the otaku-pandering one, in every way, while 3.33 is like the slap on the face, reminding that this is actually EVA and not lagann. Same way episodes in NGE had psychological moments, no, not the train scenes, but actual psychological moments, such as while he was inside the EVA or when he was dragged down into the shadow by Leilel, or 25th/26th episodes of the original.

>>123364459
how could they? Did they at least know where it was? Were they not busy enough fighting off constant threat of whoever they're fighting? They didn't want to risk.
Age doesn't matter, Gendo and Fuyutsuki, and SEELE all knew what they were doing, Misato&co didn't, not at a single point in the movies. Anon, you're assuming so much out of nothing, you have to question everything, that's the way this movie works.
>>
>>123364645
>Were they not busy enough fighting off constant threat of whoever they're fighting? They didn't want to risk.
What the fuck are you even talking about? Who the fuck is this imagined enemy supposed to be? You're excusing me of assuming too much out of nothing yet you're doing the exact same thing.
Two old guys stayed in that base for over a decade, built an EVA Unit (which took like a thousand staffs just to fucking RUN one, let alone build), all this happened in the same place the Near Third Impact happened yet nobody know anything? It's fucking retarded no matter how much I think about it.
>>
>>123364352
>To understand 3.33 you need to remember that this movie lives by it's own logic, not comparable to ours.
Actually, you're just a weird insane cultist. You're surrendering your own sense and a common logic so you can submit to deify a cartoon movie.

There's just one main reason 3.0 exists as it does today, and that reason is that Anno and many of the others working on it are otaku. That's the entire, complete truth of it.

But not just any otaku, as like many of you present in this thread probably, they are egoistic, obsessive, and capable of extreme bias. This is already evident on /a/, MAL, tumblr, reddit, evageeks, wherever you go this is something that exists - it's a solid part of modern culture and is even stigmatized on a frequent basis. For good reason.

For Anno this is evident: he's a self-professed otaku who takes pride in recounting how he spent his youth criticizing others for what they watched and what they should watch instead, it's a man who obsesses over moe cartoons and made doujins of sailor moon, it's a man who has favorites even within his own work. His favorite in NGE: Asuka, as per his words "because she's cute." That's it.

This bias as described above is the actual logic behind Rebuild, and it's the one logic where it can be completely understood and predicted. Anno's favorites, namely Asuka, Kaworu and to some degree Misato, are always positioned on the better end of the sinking ship, so to speak. Some to ludicrous effect.
On the other end, Rei becomes a victim of her own popularity because now Anno regards Rei as a threat to his own favorites, and so drastically reduces the character and makes a mockery out of it whenever he can. Shinji accordingly is used to punish the sentiment of liking Rei, while Anno airs and "approves" the liking of his favorite characters.

The cost of this bias and egoism? A story that makes little to no sense and characters that are mere pandering avatars for the originals. Alternatively, mockeries.
>>
>>123364563
Kuudere is an archetype for a reason. Besides, Anno intended her to be creepy, but 2.22 made her go full retard, while 3.33 made Rei - Rei, kind of a slap-to-the-face of otaku gaylords.
Asuka was never an action girl aside from her debut episode and 2.22.
Gendo has his plan going, manipulates Shinji into it, he is exactly who he is.
Kaworu was a good character in manga though, and Rebuild he was alright, assuming his motives weren't some love bullshit.
Misato you're probably right about.
>>123364784
What? Well whoever they are fighting at the start of 3.33, remember in space? and that shit that came out of the ocean? Those are the things i'm talking about, faggot, i have no clue what they are called? They were busy with those. Then the EVA unit could've been built ages ago, again anon, you're assuming so much, just because they're numbered, doesn't mean they were built in that order. Besides, those guys have SEELE, they have access to unlimited resources, especially if other countries survived and are operable.
Watch the fucking movie.
>>
>>123364645
>1) it doesn't. Never did. Fuck You.
Nice non-argument.

>2) That's an opinon, shove it up your ass
An informed opinion which I backed up with arguments you didn't even address. You lose out.

>3) Again, fuck you, for not understanding eva.
You're the one not understanding it.

>If anything, this discussion is a shallow shitfest until we see 3.0+1.0.
You don't need to see 3.0+1.0 to conclude on 3.0, it is what it is. The failure to acknowledge this just shows how afraid you are of criticism. 3.0 isn't some protected work.

>If you were shown Eva episodes up to 24 you'd also think that there was much pretentious bullshit but no real substance to it,
lol no
EVA up to and including episode 24 has proven, shown and quantifiable merits upon which EoE merely serves as wrap-up and finalization. Rebuild with 3.0 is still that shallow problem and this is becoming a problem for you to admit.

>Same way episodes in NGE had psychological moments, no, not the train scenes, but actual psychological moments, such as while he was inside the EVA or when he was dragged down into the shadow by Leilel, or
Which include train scenes, by the fucking way in case you forgot. It's just sad how you conveniently forget this shit.

As far as otaku pandering goes, even 3.0 takes the cake over 2.0. 2.0 stands on it's own two legs as a movie, whereas 3.0 only manages to provide pandering. 3.0's "dark" moments are like TTGL's "dark" moments, merely part of the show. What separates it from being just pandering from actual substance is having something more than just dark-for-show and light-for-show.
3.0 is just fluff.
>>
>>123364819
>unwilling to get immersed in a fictional world
Welcome to anime my friend, japs have a very bizzare idea of fiction, that can break rules of reality you know? not just some stupid alien invasion bullshit like western stuff that tries to be 'realistic'. Whereas japanese escapist fiction will go as far as possible from reality, and when it succeeds, people like you, never understand it, because they are so locked in their little box of rules and laws that they are unwilling to think outside of it.

>That's entire complete truth of it
Nice opinion, gaylord.

You know so much about anno, from unreliable sources and your own assumptions, and even if all you said was correct, then that doesn't mean it influences his work in any way, furthermore, you can't take what this guy says for granted, in fact, he might be shy, or saying wrong stuff for some other reason, no one really knows what's in his mind, and how does that affect EVA, if it even does.

>the bias
you're overthinking this. People aren't pushing their own interests in their work if they aren't completely retarded. Anno has proven to us he can write clever shit and not just because 'that's my favourite character', but for actual consistent reasons, and that benefitted NGE massively.

> The cost of this bias and egoism? A story that makes little to no sense and characters that are mere pandering avatars for the originals. Alternatively, mockeries.

The story makes sense...somewhat... everything depends on how 3.0+1.0 will go. Story is no story without an ending.
The characters definitely make sense, all the way through the 3 movies. Aside from 2.0, there was no pandering in Rebuilds. Anywhere.
>>
>>123364959
>Kuudere is an archetype for a reason.
So is every "archetype", what's your point? Tsundere, dandere, whatever-the-fuck-dere - these are characters that predate the coining of these arcehtypes.

>Besides, Anno intended her to be creepy,
This is unsourced fanwank that just demonstrates how ugly fandom can be - entirely fabricating things as to slander. For instance this one exists because some fans would slander Rei because they like Asuka more - this is your part, this is you.

The creation of Rei Q not just a "slap in the face" to otaku gaylords, it's a validation of otaku gaylords who do the exact thing above. The rest and more well-adjusted people can just look away in disgust at the people who revel in the destruction.

>Asuka was never an action girl aside from her debut episode and 2.22.
The connection being that 2.22 is Asuka's debut episode, which is where it makes sense until 3.0 fucks it up and creates a shallow pandering character. Like with the rest.

>Gendo has his plan going, manipulates Shinji into it, he is exactly who he is.
That makes him no different from every other villain. In other words, you don't have an argument.

>Kaworu was a good character in manga though, and Rebuild he was alright
No he wasn't. Even there he's comparably shallow. In Rebuild he's worse than the rest combined. NGE stands as the only decent place he has where he plays both a working thematic role and isn't just there for pandering.

You just need to owe up to the facts. You are shilling for an anime that quite frankly, doesn't deserve it. God knows why you do it, I will only guess you're yet-another-biased idiot or a newfag who saw something shiny.
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>>123353636
holy shit
what vidya is that
>>
>>123365170
>people like you, never understand it, because they are so locked in their little box of rules and laws that they are unwilling to think outside of it.
You really are an insane cultist. What I've proposed is plenty "thinking outside the box", what you're proposing is submitting to delusion.

>You know so much about anno, from unreliable sources
These aren't unreliable, they are all sourced and readily available. Discrediting them only makes it worse for yourself. Just look at this:
>you can't take what this guy says for granted, in fact, he might be shy,
how can you engage in this much doublethink? On one end, Anno says something right, but he's not to be trusted or "might be shy" when he says something that disproves your view of him?

>you're overthinking this. People aren't pushing their own interests in their work if they aren't completely retarded.
Anno does, and so do many others.
This isn't overthinking, this is the truth you're unwilling to accept because it would render your fantasy world a joke. For your own good, it's best to snap out of it right now.

>Anno has proven to us he can write clever shit and not just because 'that's my favourite character', but for actual consistent reasons, and that benefitted NGE massively.
He has shown that he can, but that doesn't mean he will do so in Rebuild or other, any works. It benefitted NGE, but has it benefitted Rebuild? In any other way than the one I described?

>The story makes sense...somewhat... everything depends on how 3.0+1.0 will go. Story is no story without an ending.
No. This is here, this is now. You can't demand it makes sense, and I can factually tell you that it won't make sense ever because this is a story consumed linearly, and the facts are that they WILL have to do damage control in terms of inventing even more insane plot devices and twists to justify 3.0.

> Aside from 2.0, there was no pandering in Rebuilds.
Oh wow, just like there were no american tanks in iraq, right?
>>
>>123365002
Eva never had any moment, watch the damn series. Whatever build up was starting to get shoved aside after Rei's poem in episode 14, then completely thrown away after Shinji is stuck inside EVA, even look how played down the 'last angel' battle is in EVA compared to shows like Gurren Lagann, and look how little plot we're getting, still, only bits in character dialogue and such, so there is no substance, up untill EoE, which is the equivalent of 3.0+1.0 hopefully.

>you're the one not understanding it
Nice non argument too, newfriend:^)

>backed up with evidence
which evidence exactly? I'm assuming we have watched the same series, if you are not 12 years old you can connect my arguments to the evidence yourself, shitlord.

So i didn't need to see EoE or episodes 25/26 to see how Eva went? Are you even reading what you're posting?

>EoE serves as a wrap-up
It's the biggest piece of lore, character development, and basically everything else. Without EoE, Evangelion isn't even half complete, it's obvious.

>Rebuild is that shallow still
Nope, same shit here. Rebuild is also missing the final piece, the final point, the biggest piece of puzzle to put all the small stuff together, just like EoE did with Evangelion, and you have a problem with admitting this because you either never watched Eva, or have watched it as a kid and still have your nostalgy glasses on. Evangelion is fucking nothing, monster-of-the-week low budget parody, without it's ending, it's lore and EOE, and that's exactly what Rebuild is going to get in 3.0+1.0, hopefully.

>train scenes
horrible cliche shit, please don't mix them in there.
And what's convinient in me forgetting them?

>otaku pandering
seems like you learned your /a/ terminology well anon, how about you get a brain too? That would sure help. It's Anno, he has never pandered to anyone before, except for 2.22, but even that was only for the sake of furthering drama and themes of despair in 3.33 and at the end of 2.22.
>>
>>123365341
That's pretty obviously GTA4.
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>>123365486
well fuck me, never played the newer GTAs
>>
>>123365170
>>123365394
Also, you need to stop being so goddamned dumb. This isn't kindergarten or high school debate, you don't get away with bullshit here - we're looking at Rebuild, Anno, 3.0 and who he IS, who and what he has been selling himself as for nearly twenty years now. You do not get to close you eyes and ears to that and pretend 3.0+1.0 will miraculously redeem all of that.

It's actually time you started thinking outside your comfort box. If you just want to "immerse yourself" as you said, then please excuse yourself from this board and this discussion, permanently. If you're not willing to discuss Rebuild or Anno in any context besides assuming that Rebuild or Anno is at all and every times correct, then you just have nothing to do here or contribute.

That is, claiming that 2.0 is the only movie with pandering when 3.0 directly taps some of otaku's most deepest fantasies, while providing no development, substance or anything else of the sort (besides a flashy show), then you've gone nutters. You can't watch them just slap Kaworu on the poster, develop him less than the original did in less than twenty minutes, make fetish material out of the rest of the characters and story and THEN pretend there was no pandering.

They can add nipples to 1.0 or a shot of Kaworu on the moon for no good reason and then that's "not pandering".
>>
>>123365468
>Eva never had any moment, watch the damn series. Whatever build up was starting to get shoved aside after Rei's poem in episode 14, then completely thrown away after Shinji is stuck inside EVA
This is all strong momentum you fucking retard. These are all legitimate buildups from the previous state, a sense of danger coupled with a legitimate development in plot or character. This has weight behind it, that poem, that getting stuck in EVA in combination with escalated plot movements gives it one hell of a momentum that could only end in a cataclysm like EoE.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

>Nice non argument too, newfriend:^)
NO ARGUMENT IS REQUIRED BECAUSE YOU LITERALLY THREW AN AD HOMINEM.

>which evidence exactly?
The evidence you blatantly skipped in your post.

>So i didn't need to see EoE or episodes 25/26 to see how Eva went? Are you even reading what you're posting?
Are you? Are you even reading what I'm posting? I'm telling you that factually, directly that before these episodes we've been through so much solid, quantifiable content that if, and I say if, NGE ended there and then, we could still boast that it had great characters and a good story. Unconcluded, but good.
Rebuild as of 3.0? A goddamned mess filled only with pandering which the likes of you defend because you're otaku. No other reason.

>It's the biggest piece of lore, character development, and basically everything else. Without EoE, Evangelion isn't even half complete, it's obvious.
Objectively wrong, NGE was complete before EoE was a thing. EoE is an extra ending on top of the original - it's not the biggest piece of lore, not even close as episode 21 alone contains more backstory and facts than EoE. Then consider the rest.

>Rebuild is also missing the final piece, the final point, the biggest piece of puzzle to put all the small stuff together, just like EoE did with Evangelion, a
Wrong, see above. You can't compare as NGE was already good by that point.
>>
>>123365468
>>123365538
>horrible cliche shit, please don't mix them in there.
A staple of the original that was, like in 1.0 and 2.0, used to convey psychological themes of the show. Very much part of the very examples you brought up as being psychological as well. You just don't have any fucking argument. It's just sad.

It's convenient for you because it makes it easier for you to delude yourself that you have any right, any point whatsoever in this conversation. Realistically it's a big failure for you because now everyone that reads this conversation, if anyone at all bothers, can tell with absolute certainty that you're a sad deluded fuck who has no idea what you're talking about.

>Anno, he has never pandered to anyone before, except for 2.22
This is bait. This has to be fucking bait.
>>
>>123365170
Anon.

Don't you see the irony in defending 3.0 as anti-escapist while you, yourself promote full and complete immersion in 3.0 to the point where you're no longer able to think independently from it?

This "anti-otaku escapism" is on the subject of irony, as far as I know unmatched in the arts.

Here you have legions of simpleminded otaku who all indulge themselves in anime that is as 3.0 is, shallow and without substance but only has cute girl/boy characters to fantasize about, and then justify doing so because it's "anti otaku escapism". The anti-otaku escapism anime is in itself, otaku escapism anime.

It's the biggest selfdelusion there is, and it requires a special kind of idiot to get trapped in and a devious kind of idiot to exploit.
>>
>>123365523
You can usually tell modded GTA from unmodded SR by GTA only having one fun thing in view at a time.
>>
>>123365913
You can tell GTA from SR by GTA not being a superfluous pile of shit.
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>>123353930
>Kaworu was one of the few things I liked about 3.33
That means you have shit taste and basically misunderstood why the entire movie is bad.

They shifted the entirety of EVA to make what was a single episode's worth of content into a full-fledged movie. Then they turned the knob to 11 and drastically downsized everything so that Kaworu would have room enough to movie in this new story. It turned what was in the original, just an Angel in human form into what is presented as an everlasting, timelooping knowledgeable figure, is disgusting.

If you like Kaworu in 3.33, you are indirectly the reason to why 3.0 is allowed to exist and every possible complaint you have about it is invalid because you've implicitly accepted them.
>>
>>123365394
>what i've proposed is [insert right thing here], and what you're proposing in is [insert bad thing that is of no relevance to the post or the discussion here]
/a/ : The Post.

>doublethink
Is everything you say to anyone, especially if it's going to be publically available to everyone everywhere and you're going to get judged for it - absolute perfect truth? Do you just like opening your heart for everyone? Well Anno and pretty much everyone on the planet doesn't. Eat it.

>this is truth you're unwilling to accept

you sound like someone from /x/ proving the existence of god or some other magical shit. This nicely represents what you're doing now. You're overthinking things, even if that's motive behind it, we're judging the work, not why or how he made it, and the truth is, characters make perfect sense, they're just the way they're meant to be in every way, except for not getting as much character development.

>he shown as he can, doesn't mean he will
yes, but also doesn't mean he won't.
>>
>>123351910
>Happened with 1.11 and 2.22.
Except 1.11 and 2.22 were the best received Evangelion movies.

2.22 remains the best received Evangelion movie of all time.

To put it this way, 3.33 had what, four times the cinema viewership if not even more, but didn't sell as much as 2.22 did.

So you're full of shit.

>b-but OPINIONS WILL CHANGE
>BUT THEY WILL PATCH IT
>>
(cont)
>>123365731
>story consumed linearly
>insane plotdevices
am i being fucking baited? Anno decides which way the story is consumed, and only him. Maybe the original was linear, but this isn't. If he's explaining things, how does that mean 'insane plotdevices'? He planned it all from the start, confirmed in inteview with Kaworu's seyuu, it's very obvious there will be new things and explanations, but you're so desperately trying to shit on an unfinished product, as if complaining about bugs in an unfinished game, that you're using this stupid term that you don't even know the meaning of.
>just like there were no tanks in iraq
Why do american shits always try to make /pol/ references to show off how smart they are?
>>123365538
>anno who he is
you don't know shit about him, you're the bullshitting one.
>in any context
yes, anno created evangelion, it's his creation, it's the way he wants it to be. You're trying to rate his reasons for his creation, instead of rating what his creation ended up being. I bet that's why you can't enjoy shit, you overthink stuff too much.

>less than the original did
fuck off baitlord, only manga really developed Kaworu.

>make fetish out of the characters
what? where? did you ever watch eva, or just pretending to be a retard?
>>
>>123366252
(cont)


>>123365662
>you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
no faggot, you fucking don't know shit whatsoever, if you honestly think that up to ep 14 has been anything but a shitty monster-of-the-week show then you're deluded.

>solid content
nope, well yeah, sort of, but it was useless, as if you're being told separate stories from different places, but they're missing that one biggest piece, which EoE was, which 3.0+1.0 will be.

>NGE was complete before EoE
now that's objectively wrong, that's why so many people hated the ending, so much rage and outcry happened over D&R and the original ending. Because the story was unfinished, EoE is the most important part of Evangelion, if it wasn't for it, we wouldn't be discussing this now. There was no 'solid content' only vaguely implied bullshit that seemed like bad writing, up untill EoE came and explained everything, pieced stuff together, and gave a meaning to everything.
>NGE was already good by this point
it wasn't, see above.


>>123365731
>used to convey...
stopped reading right there. Those-tier scenes are almost in every show nowdays, it's where Eva only scratches the surface of it's characters and psychology themes, if anything, those scenes are a real cliche shit downfall of the show. Just watch the damn show, no fucking arguments needed, compare the depth of the cliche shit dialogue in the train scenes, which is basically "i don't pilot eva, what is dad, where is mom, uuuh so scary so much i piss my pants"
and then in the actual scenes like "what do i need those hands for? what do i feel towards x character? what do they feel? why do i do this? why do i feel this? why do they feel this?" and so on.

He never pandered shit, faggot, prove me wrong

>>123365863
i'l think independently about it, when it's a finished product, which it isn't, and won't be untill 3.0+1.0, for now i'm trusting anno to get things right.
>>
>>123366214
>2.22 remains the best received Evangelion movie of all time.
>not EoE
This is what 3.33 haters actually believe.
>>
>>123345672
Damn, a lot of people fell for this bait.
>>
>>123366198
>you sound like someone from /x/ proving the existence of god or some other magical shit. This nicely represents what you're doing now.
Stop. You are the one proposing full and complete intellectual surrender to a cartoon franchise, not me. Full and complete belief, faith if you will, as the only argument as to why it would make sense.

I'm the one taking into consideration what Anno has said, what he prefers, and tying that to the movie and making a conclusion based upon it. In the meantime, you're busy alluding to uncredible sources and even - as idiotic as it seems - discrediting Anno by claiming he "doesn't want to open his heart".

This isn't overthinking, this is at all thinking. We are judging the work, you are refusing to do so by actually asking me, and others I presume, to forego judging and just immerse yourself without thinking or criticizing. Honestly anon, you're full of it.

>yes, but also doesn't mean he won't.
We know he hasn't, by looking at what he has done.
>>
>>123366285

This is the objectively right opinion.
EoE>3.33>NGE>Shin Seiki Evangelion manga> Death&Rebirth>1.11>Until You Come To Me> Petit Film > [email protected]> Girlfriend of Steel>Re-take> Lowest-rated fanfiction on wattpad> 2.22
>>
>>123366285
Go on, prove that one. Entertain the rest of us.
>>
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>>123366360
3.33>anything
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>>123366252
>>123366278
>am i being fucking baited? Anno decides which way the story is consumed, and only him. Maybe the original was linear, but this isn't
This is linear , he has presented it linearly and so it exists linearly. Deal with it. This is reality, not your fabled bullshit nonsense-talk.

>If he's explaining things, how does that mean 'insane plotdevices'? He planned it all from the start, confirmed in inteview with Kaworu's seyuu,
Because to explain the mess he's created, he requires the use of insane plot devices. Not exactly hard to understand. Whether he planned out things or not is irrelevant, if it's bad it's bad regardless of plan. It's worse if he had planned it out instead of just winged it.

The original was something he, according to himself and others - winged. Doesn't mean shit.

>but you're so desperately trying to shit on an unfinished product,
Holy shit. 3.0 is finished. Get it through your head. It's over, you can't turn back time, it came and it went, next time is a new movie.

>Why do american shits always try to make /pol/ references
Not even american, faggot. Good job submitting to the point though.
>>
>>123366303
>what he said, what he prefers
and you believe him? lmeo
he also said plot's not important, that people think about it too much. You can talk all you want about anno but two facts will remain the same:
1) We don't know how his own preference influences his work
2) we don't know if what he is saying is honest

>we're judging the work
exactly what you're not doing, you're judging anno, not his work, his reasons for it, but not his work, you're judging everything, but his work.
>>
>>123366366
You're the one who made the original statement that 2.22 is the "best received Evangelion movie of all time." You back it up, numbnuts. I'll disprove it after you flail around, scrambling to explain your silly statement.
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>>123366278
>i'l think independently about it, when it's a finished product, which it isn't, and won't be untill 3.0+1.0, for now i'm trusting anno to get things right.

Here you have it folks.

3.33 defending retard actually admitting to not being capable of thinking independently on the subject matter of 3.33.

You have to give it to the 3.33-retards, the actual ones not the baiting ones, they do a better job of showing people why 3.33 and the like of it is insane than anyone else could.
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>>123366408
>This is linear , he has presented it linearly and so it exists linearly. Deal with it. This is reality, not your fabled bullshit nonsense-talk.
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>>123366423
>and you believe him? lmeo
Why wouldn't you? You're literally trying to say he lies because what he says shits on your view of him.
His opinion, not your opinion.

>he also said plot's not important, that people think about it too much. You can talk all you want about anno but two facts will remain the same:

He did say that, and do you know WHY he says that? After 3.33? It makes perfect sense.
Because he's made a shitty movie with a plot that doesn't work, that's why. This is him being defensive. Also normal, but are you not to trust what he says? Are you autistic or something, you don't understand that you don't have to agree with what he says, just acknowledge that he said it and there are reasons behind it?

>1) We don't know how his own preference influences his work
We know, he's literally admitted this dozens of times in interviews.

>2) we don't know if what he is saying is honest
We know what he does, and we know it matches with what he says. You don't need anything more. We already have everything we need.

>exactly what you're not doing, you're judging anno, not his work,
I'm doing both.

Everyone has gone through 3.33 a dozen times. We know it doesn't work as a story, we know it's characters are shallow, we know all of this. You even implicitly admit that by claiming that we just have to trust Anno to "make it work", since you can't defend it. Look at this thread, or any other discussion - it can't be defended.

So the question that remains, the only question - why does it suck?

One answer, such as yours, is that "it's not complete and will magically unsuck, just trust Anno".
This is not judging the work. This is abstaining from judging the work. If you truly want to abstain, fuck off.
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>>123345672
The Rebuilds are good eyecandy but that's it, they lack the mood of the original series and the characters lack their uniqueness. NGE was only possible because Anno was borderline suicidal at the time of its creation.

Only good thing to come from the Rebuilds are those K-Swiss shoes.
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>>123366433
http://eiga.com/movie/53380/
http://movies.yahoo.co.jp/search/?query=%E3%83%B1%E3%83%B4%E3%82%A1%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B2%E3%83%AA%E3%83%B2%E3%83%B3

Go on comparing with non-EVA movies. Notice which is lowest. (except D&R I suspect)

Recent polls, late 2014 STILL puts 2.22 on top of the movie list as far as EVA goes.
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>>123366408
well he didn't use them yet, and you're already accusing him of it, faggot. He never used insane plot devices, ever, and he probably won't. He planned this 'mess' from the start, so he knows what he is doing. Hard to understand how you're so fucking deluded you have no clue what you're even talking about
>irrelevant
you've got to be pretending here. Say, in your opinion, what is there a difference between a normal explanation that happens after there is a timeskip event that the audience doesn't understand, and an 'insane plot device'?
>3.0 is finished
that's like asking someone to rate an episode in the middle of a tv show.

>>123366564
>you know it matches what he says
no you don't
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>>123366528
That's still linear. Time passes. Plus I'm 100% sure this refers to the way you consume the story, as a audience. You watch movie 1,2,3,4....etc
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>>123366632
I can't read this nip-speak. Just go on IMDB if you want to compare ratings. You're dead wrong.
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>>123366632
and Naruto is the most famous manga series, along with FMA and One Piece.
Your statistics of what is more successful don't show shit, they only show what is more accessible and has the most pandering (more popular = more pandering)
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>>123366683
3.0+1.0 will have a connecting prequel part, or at least an explanation of sorts, therefore we're missing a crucial connecting piece which will hopefully, make 3.33 a movie that makes sense, but the reason it is there what is there, is because it's hard to separate eva into movies, so he had to make sure the drama and a certain theme where in each of the movies, so he made what later became 3.33, a movie that is completely dependant on whether there is a prequel to it or not.
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>>123366278
>stopped reading right there. Those-tier scenes are almost in every show nowdays, it's where Eva only scratches the surface of it's characters and psychology themes, if anything, those scenes are a real cliche shit downfall of the show

3.33fag confirmed for shitting on the original to defend 3.33. Just how low can you go?

>>123366651
>He never used insane plot devices, ever, and he probably won't.
14-year old timeskip with retarded changes
curse of eva

check m8

>Say, in your opinion, what is there a difference between a normal explanation that happens after there is a timeskip event that the audience doesn't understand, and an 'insane plot device'?
The sheer incredulity and insanity of it. How contrived it is. To believe it, you'd have to be insane. It's simple. We're past that point where it's possible.
There is more work in terms of "explaining" needed to justify just a small fraction of what has happened than there is time to make use of said explaining.

It's like one page of story that doesn't make sense and another hundred pages that try to explain it, adding so much nonsense that the point of the original story is lost.
>>
>>123366651
>that's like asking someone to rate an episode in the middle of a tv show.
Which is perfectly doable. Some Seinfeld episodes can be rated differently than others. Some seasons, episodes or whatever are better made than others. Level of quality is not consistent.

This is more like rating a season however. I know you're autistic and probably don't have friends and all, but haven't you ever asked or been asked what you thought of an episode?

>no you don't
We do.
>>
People constantly shit on 3.33 but why doesn't anyone ever explain why 2.22 is good?
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>>123366772
>to do this
nice assumption buddy, only that it's wrong, i always hated the train scenes, especially when i realised how emotionally deep and smart this show is. Because compared to the rest of the show, they're annoying, reptetetive, serve no purpose whatsoever, and are quite simplistic and stupid.
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>>123366834
Shippers like it because they though Rei would win.
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>>123366765
>3.0+1.0 will have a connecting prequel part
Speculation and conjecture, absolutely pointless to bring up.

Unless you want to consider what that explanation would be more concretely of course, which is where you are forced to realize that no explanation can actually work besides serving as mere fluff.

It's not hard to separate EVA into movies. It's not a difficult task. You cannot blame the format, as 3.0 quite clearly deliberately skimps out rather than showing lack of time. It's a shorter movie than the rest as well.

3.0 needing another movie or not is a moot point, because if it needs another movie to explain itself it's already a failure.
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>>123364819
>Anno regards Rei as a threat to his own favorites, and so drastically reduces the character and makes a mockery out of it whenever he can.
>What is 2.0
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>>123366834
Because it makes sense, there's growth, development, and the steady building of a story that seems interesting. In many ways it's like the original who does the same thing.
That wins points, that makes a movie interesting.
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>>123366889
2.0 would be the playup to the punchline in 3.0.

2.0 contains an even more drastically "improved" version of Asuka and Kaworu, his favorites. The thing about Rei is only that she had some new development which could be improved on in 3.0, which when 3.0 fails to deliver the whole point of the character falls away and you're left with Anno's punchline.
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>>123366914
>Because it makes sense, there's growth, development, and the steady building of a story that seems interesting.
Care to elaborate? I can say the exact same thing about any movie.
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>>123366834
Because it's EVA, and it's good enough probably. It doesn't fuck up, it delivers some new stuff into the mythos without going overboard, has some character development that is believable, it's more or less everything you could ask for. It's not a rehash, and it's not retarded, it's something that potentially - could become good by the end of the fourth and final movie.

On itself, it's got themes that make sense, and it's more positive overall.

I'm not surprised 2.22 is very well liked.

>>123366841
Still hating on NGE to defend 3.33.

Absolute cancer. Figures 3.33 fans aren't Evangelion fans, and are now admitting to never having liked NGE in the first place.
>>
>>123366813
>we do
no you don't
>which is perfectally doable
maybe when the show is finished, or if it as at least linear or even better, each episode is it's own story - like most Bebop episodes, then maybe, but not with Eva, where everything is dependant on the whole thing.

>>123366863
because /a/ is into moe and likes to be pandered to

>>123366888
>no explanation can work
you don't know that until 3.0+1.0 comes out, and considering that sneaky extra stage in manga with Mari and Yui talking, i think Anno will do something so clever, it will all magically make sense, but this is all my assumption. See it this way, 3.33 is shit for now, but if 3.0+1.0 does an amazing job at explaining everything about it and everything in 3.33 will make sense, then 3.33 will become those parts of Eva nobody understood untill it became later explained, and only by rewatching it for the second time, you understand the second meaning behind character's actions and motives and all the dialogue. But considering this is Anno, i'm taking 3.0+1.0 as awesome, so if it fails, the i will be the first one to shit on 3.33.

3.0 had to have this atmosphere to reach out to the viewer, that's why it's set when it's set, rather than in a linear way. I also believe it would benefit from being double it's length too. I think 3.0+1.0 will be 2.5 hours btw, i think that's the only way he can conclude shit right.

>>123367034
Yes, but it's Evangelion, it doesn't need to be good, it has to be perfect, experimental and innovative, it's what made original Evangelion what it is, and this links into my next point.
3.33 are TRUE NGE fans, because they actually understand that deep in it's core, 3.33 is the closest thing to NGE, to come out of rebuilds.
>>
>>123367004
You can't say the same. Take 3.0, there's no growth or development, and the story - rather than being built - is obfuscated and more or less invalidated.

For 2.22 specifically it means that as a movie, it handles multiple characters continuing from the first and uses their established characters as a base for further development. It writes in an event or scenario to which these characters react as per their defined characters, in a way that feels meaningful and believable.

The story uses the setting from 1.0, and further builds on that by adding more players, hidden and seen that provide a the threat of having an effect.

This shouldn't be necessary to explain. On an emotional level it taps into the characters and makes their motives clear, while not compromising much on their characters.
In short, it's constructive. It's going somewhere, you can leave the theatre with the feeling that something was built.

Compare to 3.33, where changes are introduced arbitrarily after a timeskip, and present themselves as contrived and nonsensical.
>>
>>123366834
2.22 is good as a standalone movie but is inferior to the original episodes.

3.33 is just bad
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>>123367128
>maybe when the show is finished,
You're retarded. You're making a special case for Evangelion and 3.33 because you don't have any fucking argument left.

At this point it's time you concede.
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>>123367128
>Yes, but it's Evangelion, it doesn't need to be good, it has to be perfect, experimental and innovative, it's what made original Evangelion what it is, and this links into my next point.
By that logic, it's already a failure because it's literally a remake of an existing franchise. It's not experimental, it's not innovative, it's a step backwards because it's more referential than ever before and more or less plays into the current anime trend of tsunderes and timeloops as madoka benefited greatly on.

Your next "point" is a joke and is blind fanaticism coming from a person who rags down on NGE for something entirely shallow.

You're not really a "true NGE fan" if you're willing to outright decry NGE itself to defend something not NGE- namely 3.33.
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>>123367235
>By that logic, it's already a failure because it's literally a remake of an existing franchise.
You mean the entire rebuild series, right?
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>>123367128
>you don't know that until 3.0+1.0 comes out,
I know now.

The fact that you think adding a fucking manga chapter with Mari in it "makes things work" just shows that you have no clue. Adding Mari in the manga only creates more questions and actually damages the story, manga and Rebuild by placing elements that technically have no relevance where it doesn't belong.

Moreover it makes for a cheap character and more cliche points, forcing more and more of EVA's characters into a Mary-Sue ish elite of super-educated, super-beautiful super-relevant contrived posse. The human points of the story are completely thrown to the winds for this nonsense. The same points that depended on relatability, believablity and solid groundworks in character building.
>>
>>123352617
but that's the exact kind of shit Misato would do. I wouldn't be surprised to see a discussion of this.
>>
>>123367128
>>123367321
adding

>it will all magically make sense
Get real. You're at the point where the ONLY way you can find to make this story escape it's current inevitable path towards pointless escapism and otaku exploitation is literally magic.

There is no magic.

You're not a fan. You're not even intelligent.

You're a mindless drone, a fanatic otaku out to suck whatever shallow pleasure you get from childish cartoons. Your enjoyment of Evangelion means nothing because it is entirely based on trying your best to not understand it, just align yourself with it and mingle in a community.

The whole deal about the original and by the way, other stories or works of fiction that are great is that they don't base themselves entirely on any one part of itself to be considered good. It permeates the entire work.

NGE doesn't need five libraries of "extra facts" or video games to be great. Those exist to satisfy otaku idiots such as yourself, in answering questions that didn't exist before they were answered much less needed to be.
By the time NGE ended, you don't need to know about the FAR, you don't need to know the color of Ritsuko's panties or how many licks Asuka takes to get to the center of a tootsie-pop. By the time it ended, it had already produced, from scratch, characters that could at any one point in the story, stand on their own. A story that has a solid buildup and teardown.

No timeskip cheats, no curses of EVA's, no complete reliance on blatant fujoshi/otaku pandering to keep it afloat.

With 3.0, you are faced with the reality that it has none of that, except the blatant fujoshi/otaku pandering. In Evangelion's early stages, like any other story you learn about as you go, you can expect lighthearted things.
We're not in that zone any more. We've spent three movies on something that has result in nothing but lame pandering. That's an incurable disaster.

You can't explain away something being shallow after three movies.
>>
>>
>>123351831
>Mari confirmed for useless

That extra stage thing from the manga can be brought up, but to me it seems like she was shoehorned in. If she was important to the story then how come they don't flesh her out a bit more? Oh, girl with glasses is spoopy and mysterious I need more than just that.
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>>123368208
I think 2.0 really dropped the ball on that one. You don't have to make someone plot relevant immediately but you need to do something with them so they can feel like they have a presence in the setting. Asuka kinda got the same deal but it's less noticeable since you can fall back on the character in NGE even if they're suppose to be different.
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>>123368331
>Asuka kinda got the same deal but it's less noticeable
I dunno. I hated that 2.22 completely destroyed Asuka. Her deep and dark seeded past isn't explained or even hinted towards. Only way to figure out she has a dark past is to deeply analyze that 5 second scene where she's playing with a hand puppet. It makes it much more difficult for me to understand why she has such a rough emotional exterior.
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>>123368440
The thing is we really don't even know if she had all that bad a life, we just assume because that's what happened last time. There actually was a scene that went into her character a little more but it was cut because reasons like a lot of other scenes. There's probably a draft of 2.0 somewhere in the Khara archive that would have made a much better movie.
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>>123368641
>The thing is we really don't even know if she had all that bad a life, we just assume because that's what happened last time.
Exactly. Asuka in the rebuilds is just a poorly designed character. No emotional depth or backstory. Hell, her acting bitchy doesn't even make sense. She's straight out of the barrel attacking Shinji when she first meets him in the rebuild, and the reasoning for it makes no sense.
It's a shame all characters maybe except Shinji received a similar treatment in the rebuilds.

I mean, the movies aren't bad. They're all entertaining and very well made. I just constantly find myself shitting on them because I keep comparing them to NGE and EoE.
>>
>>123362172
Anno's depressive breakdown is Japan's national April Fool's ruse, you gullible fool.

Will Godzilla somehow influence 3.0+1.0?
>>
>>123368208
Ironic how the only character that really is useless is the only one which has never considered suicide over the course of the story.
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>>123368331
>I think 2.0 really dropped the ball on that one
You mean 3.0.

>>123368440
>I dunno. I hated that 2.22 completely destroyed Asuka. Her deep and dark seeded past isn't explained or even hinted towards
It was there.

The same as in NGE, it comes in a later episode.

>>123368790
Basically both of you are idiots whose opinions aren't respectable.
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>>123369369
>It was there.
The doll scene is literally the only suggestion of her past, and the only way you would ever be able to piece together what that meant is if you watched NGE.
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>>123369369
Epic shitpost, my friend. Well meme'd indeed.
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>>123369369
>You mean 3.0.
I don't.
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>>123369502
>The doll scene is literally the only suggestion of her past
and there you go. Denied your entire previous statement yourself, thanks.

You couldn't piece together the character by watching the corresponding section in NGE either, if you could the character would be garbage. This isn't Kaworu, it's not supposed to be an as-is shallow shitty character.
It comes together, or should have come together.

Basically your hatred is irrational here and is realistically attributed to something else. I don't doubt that you hate it, but care to give us the real reason? Because that ain't it.

>>123369505
There aren't any memes in my post, and you got served. Enjoy having a worthless opinion, shitty Asuka waifufag.

>>123369588
Yes you do. Mari is a new character. You even admitted yourself that she's in the same spot as Asuka - being introduced with no solid spot yet. The only portion of Rebuild that can ever make Mari into a fully fledged character is 3.0, or rather - was 3.0. It's too late now of course, like for many other things.

If you're going to consider balls dropped balls catched, then consider this:

2.0 did something no other Evangelion work past the original has done: introduce a character that audience didn't dismiss immediately, and wasn't just an amalgam of existing characters. This doesn't make Mari a good character, but it made her possible for one day to be just that AND have some recognition.

But, when 3.0 decided to drop everyone's character arcs and just focus on pandering, Mari like the others now have no proper character and is therefore glorified Eva-brand otakubait.
Undeniably, the ball was dropped in 3.0, because 2.0 was still holding on to it.
>>
>>123369722
2.0 had very little essential plot material. If you were going to flesh out characters that were being introduced or reintroduced that was the time. 3.0 already had enough to establish and tossing two more onto the pile of characters that need scenes would have destroyed any semblance of pacing it had. 2.0 was where the ball was dropped on this one.
>>
>>123370102
Your argument doesn't counter what we've established earlier, that Mari is here being introduced, and not immediately concluded as a character. Doing so would be outright poor writing also.

Moreover, 2.0 covered and detailed more plot detail than you could argue 3.0 does, as all 3.0 does is more or less introduce questions it has no obligation to answer.

Secondly, to counter your new point it's enough to point out that you're viewing things backwards. 2.0 existed before 3.0 did, and so 3.0 must work with what 2.0 has already established. You even brought up the analogy of the ball, which means 2.0 carries the ball that 3.0 will later drop.

3.0 made the choice to establish a lot of things it quite frankly - didn't have to. 3.0 went out of it's way in fact, to avoid working with things that needed further establishment. It ditched the responsibility it had, the same responsibility for instance NGE took when it took it's characters and developed them.

On the contrary, 3.0 was where most of the establishment should have taken place if it at all was going to feature serious characters and a serious storyline. The third section of NGE, what begins after the half-mark point is where development picks up as far as characters, it's where the shallow otaku-bait character known as Asuka is now developed further so that she'll be more. It's why you at all have some sort of "backstory" to refer to.

This would be, it needed to be 3.0's part of the workload. Otherwise, Rebuild was never going to work. It takes time to establish characters and time is exactly what it wasted when Anno decided to allow full-on pandering towards Kaworu fans and arguably Asuka fans as well. Because to do that, they would need to drop the characters - and Mari.

You don't have any arguments that work here anon. You're going to have to explain your real reasons for taking the opposing side, because if you continue down this road it'll be obvious to anyone that reads it that you're lying.
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>>123370519
>Asuka
>Pandering

I don't think you know what the word means. Generally it means having more than five minutes of screentime, actually accomplishing something, and having like her own character arc. You know none of the things that Asuka got.
>>
>>123370519
2.0 is part of the set up and it fails to do that. Establishing a character doesn't mean you need to bring them full circle right away it's about giving them a presence in the work. 3.0 would be absurdly dense if it had tried to do what should have been done in 2.0 which doesn't make for an enjoyable viewing experience and runs up against Anno's style.
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>>123370677
>I don't think you know what the word means
I think you've been caught with your pants down and now you're trying damage control.

I know exactly what pandering is. It does not mean having your own character arc, it does not mean anything of what you said. It can involve that, but necessarily isn't.

What Asuka got, especially in 3.0, was a representation of the character that was comparably to the original Asuka, extremely mild and ridiculously amped up in terms of presentation. This means the removal of flaws, it means showcasing Asuka as an objectively stronger character or person than what the "real" Asuka is - the original in this case. This is also a relative matter.

It means playing to Asuka's sex appeal strength which the Asuka fans love.

To be concise, it means to present a character in a fanpleasing way with no obligation towards creating a good character or to have said character fit. Hence Asuka in Rebuild 3.0 lacks any character that doesn't fall into pleasing fans, i.e a tsundere with no story except her inexplicable infatuation and focus on Shinji.

>>123370801
>2.0 is part of the set up and it fails to do that.
Wrong, it succeeds as per my previous argumentation (and partly even yours in admitting that it's like Asuka's intro), and you've done nothing to counter that in your post. You made a counterclaim but it's unfortunately unfounded and will always be unfounded.

Mari had, as I pointed out as well, a large presence than you give the character credit for. An unique achievement in ALL of Post-EVA, being a new character

>3.0 would be absurdly dense if it had tried to do what should have been done in 2.0 which doesn't make for an enjoyable viewing
Again, wrong. Why would it be dense? Isn't NGE known for being dense anyway? There's no problem, and 2.0 was according to a vast majority, enjoyable viewing. I don't see you with any point whatsoever.
This isn't Anno's style? It's what he did for NGE and it's why NGE worked.
>>
>>123370801
Also you should really think about what you're saying. A setup like you describe it should in no way conclude or even mature the character to a point where it's ready to be finalized. It's the initial setup, and it's worked well.
Any and all further development must be done at a later point.

When it comes to dropping the ball, you can not blame the one party that contributed the most towards keeping the ball above ground. If you are going to blame any party, any one single movie for something wrong with Mari, you are going to have to blame 3.0.

Do anything else, and you're admitting to some other bias you're too ashamed of to admit publicly, even an anonymous imageboard. Consider that, if it's really a grudge worth holding if it's that shameful.
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>>123370929
>An unique achievement in ALL of Post-EVA, being a new character
I don't think that simply existing is grounds for praise. In fact, I would say that existing simply for the sake of existing is a bad thing, not a good thing. All it does is merely give the impression of doing something new and original, when it's in reality doing nothing.
>>
>>123370929
Introducing a character isn't the same thing as establishing them. I can introducing a character give you their name and be done but that won't be an established character.

>Isn't NGE known for being dense anyway?
Who the fuck thinks NGE is dense? GitS Innocence is dense, NGE is so fluffy you could put a blanket on it and take a nap.
>>
>>123371261
>I don't think that simply existing is grounds for praise.
Neither do I, but before you get lost in another good ol' "moving of the goalpost", keep in mind that this concerns directly your point regarding whether or not she established a presence or not. Which, by the way, she did.
So yes, it's wrong. Mari isn't a good character. She's fapbait, like Asuka is. Difference being that Asuka has a larger and arguably more depraved fanbase hence you don't hear too many complaints.

They both could be better characters. But we all know that 2.0 isn't where it went wrong considering working towards that goal.

>>123371344
>Introducing a character isn't the same thing as establishing them. I can introducing a character give you their name and be done but that won't be an established character.
Neither do I want to claim it is the same, I will however claim that Mari's introduction and initial establishment did work remarkably well, and could have very easily been expanded on later. In a very dark, EVA-esque fashion may I add.

>Who the fuck thinks NGE is dense?
Well, I don't know, just about everybody? Objectively speaking it's far more dense than most anime next to it, if you find GiTS dense then that's good for you I guess, doesn't make NGE any less dense.

Listen, when NGE focuses deeply on character to the point of entering their actual minds, in non-stop talking sessions then it is considered dense. Whether you find this "dense" or not is completely irrelevant because it's just as dense as what you proposed in your earlier post.

It's also the same kind of density that made NGE work, what made the characters have that depth they are often praised for.

I'd really like to hear some honesty now though.
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>>123369722
>There aren't any memes in my post, and you got served. Enjoy having a worthless opinion, shitty Asuka waifufag.
>calling other people dummies is "serving" them
There you go again with your shitpost meme.
>>
How are you guys going to avoid spoilers when 4.0 comes out?
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>>123371481
Complexity and density are not the same thing. You can have something dense that piles on plot points and dialog that's incredibly vapid and you can have something that's very complex eloquently portrayed.

>I'd really like to hear some honesty now though.
Stop trying to act like you're an all knowing authority when you need basic concepts explained to you.
>>
>>123371718
Stop being so salty.
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>>123371797
No salt here, my friend.
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>>123371766
Avoid the internet like the plague.
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>>123371891
How will you know when it's safe to come back?
>>
>>123371794
>Complexity and density are not the same thing
What's your point? Nobody claimed they were, nor was it relevant to the discussion.

>Stop trying to act like you're an all knowing authority when you need basic concepts explained to you.
I don't. See above. You've been very evasive in the latest few posts.

I'm not acting by the way. Something is wrong because you've totally dropped any previous threads in the conversation now, and I think I've earned some honesty.
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>>123371937
>How will you know when it's safe to come back?
I haven't thought that far ahead yet, Anonymous.
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>>123371992
This is the first time I'm going to witness a theatrical Eva release after watching the series. I hardly remember what was going on for 3.0 and 2.0, does /a/ just explode for a few weeks?
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>>123371983
>Nobody claimed they were
Except you're arguing it's dense when it really isn't. The vast majority of screentime in the series is superfluous.

>Something is wrong because you've totally dropped any previous threads in the conversation now
Because it's an entirely pointless discussion since you're already convinced you're right on account of "knowing better."
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>>123372105
>does /a/ just explode for a few weeks?
Yes, but that's a great understatement.
>>
>>123372174
>Except you're arguing it's dense when it really isn't. The vast majority of screentime in the series is superfluous.
Which is again, entirely irrelevant as a counterpoint because we're referring to a scenario in Rebuild which you argue would be dense, and then in comparison the sections in NGE which are also dense in the same way.
If you find the majority of the series superfluous, then so what? We're talking at any rate about the cases which aren't, the parts with several threads of development going on.

>Because it's an entirely pointless discussion since you're already convinced you're right on account of "knowing better."
No, I'm right only and ONLY because I've argued and proven my points, while you haven't.

The only thing that's pointless now are your tactless evasions and goalpost-moving, instead you could just give me a real reason, an honest one. One that isn't as poorly constructed that it gets torn apart.
This is an anonymous imageboard. You can afford that honesty here. Why wouldn't you make use of that chance?

Rather you should at least drop permanently the arguments you've shown here today. They don't add up and are so logically inconsistent that all you do is create quarreling. It takes you half a minute to say something stupid or make a contrived, fallacious argument but it takes at least five to nail it down why you're wrong and then longer to move on.
Stop wasting everyone's time. Be honest.
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>>123372429
>No, I'm right only and ONLY because I've argued and proven my points, while you haven't.
No you've typed absurdly long winded posts that you then assert are correct about why 2.0 didn't do anything wrong because you're a Reifag and it's your favorite movie because of you're waifu.
>>
>>123372606
None of my posts contain any of that. We're getting closer to honesty though.
You're citing waifu-reasons instead of real reasons now. You can continue if you like.

It's a lot better and more honest to see you complain because of shallow fandom tendencies than it is to see you abuse logic and reason like you do in your earlier post.
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>>123372668
>None of my posts contain any of that.
Nigga do you even look at the things you post? You type paragraphs to respond to two sentences.
>>
>>123364819
>The cost of this bias and egoism? A story that makes little to no sense and characters that are mere pandering avatars for the originals. Alternatively, mockeries
That sounds like the average fanfic
>>
>>123372754
Like I said, bullshit takes longer to resolve than honesty. Basics of trolling 101.
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>>123345672
The movie was just boring anon. The pacing was so bad it ruined the mech fight sequences, that's astonishing.

But the movie's biggest sin was the character regression of the protagonist and how out of character everyone was. It was like someone out of /a/ made an entire movie about >implying.

I don't care about the homoerotic subplot for the movie. That doesn't even bother me. 3.33 had a holier-than-thou script, slow pacing that doesn't pay off, and poorly constructed character reversals (Misato). The only good character interaction were between Asuka and Mari.

Character motivations were unknown because "deep lore", the climax of 2.2 was a retroactively made a joke, the viewer like Shinji were left in the dark for the majority of the movie, and most damning Shinji babyquit. Now he has to rely on Asuka after having that steady character progression the last 2 movies built up.

Just when you thought we could move forward, the movie backpedaled all the way back to the start of NGE. They should have really used "You cannot advance" tagline for 3.33 instead of "You cannot redo". The movie is a waste of time for all parties involved. Nothing was accomplished at the end of the day. From the start of the movie not one had any character development, how could 3.3fags even defend this? Grumpy Asuka didn't change. Mari didn't change. Bitch Misato didn't change. Shinji clearly reverted at the start of the film and stayed there.

How many Anno and Rei doll fuckers are here to defend this tripe?
>>
>>123372772
That's because it's what it is, only with an official license.
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>>123351663
>Disagreeing is a meme

No. 3.33 is pretty bad plotwise.
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>>123372843
Yeah everyone who doesn't agree with your "perfectly formulated" opinions is trolling. You figured it out.
>>
>>123372977
I didn't say that. I just said you were being dishonest.

Be real. You want to hate on 2.0, so you try to attack it with criticism that you even know yourself you've made up. That's why said criticism could be dismissed.
It was never real criticism to begin with, and next time and now if you want, it's better if you're honest.

Because if your actual reasons are so shameful that you won't admit to them but instead cover them up in lies like that, you should consider doing some self "cleaning", fix your issues and move on.
>>
>>123373209
>I'm correct so you must be wrong
Wow you really convinced me with those hot opinions bro.
>>
Blaming Shinji for what happened was pants on head retarded.
>>
>>123373634
Yet Asukafags and Kaworufags gladly do, because it means they get the pandering they want.
>>
>>123345672
>Misato is a cold and calm commander
Do we watch the same movie? Yes, she doesn't have as much scenes as NGE, but there are scenes that show her characters, that she's ACTUALLY not that calm and serious inside, although both in NGE and Rebuild her job does need her to be strict. Wasn't the Shinji's housewarming scenes still exist in Rebuild? And they found that her refrigerator was filled with only drinks? Didn't she still lost when she's bringing Shinji to NERV? And she even discussed with Katsuragi while leaning to her chair backward and idly turning it.
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>>123373634
Oh so shinji didn't actually cause the 3rd impact. 2.22 was a non Canon fan fiction.
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>>123345672
>Who seriously prefers Soryu to Shikinami?

Anyone with taste? Shikinami is a perversion of a pretty interesting character.
>>
>>123373757
But I like Asuka and wasn't happy with it at all.
I don't even see how that issue is related to pandering at all.
>>
>>123373757
Asukafag here.
I think Asuka's representation in the rebuilds are trash. So it didn't pander to me what so ever.
>>
>>123373834
I bet you also find Kirino interesting.
>>
>>123353102
>She KNEW they had that kind of power, and told no one about it.

Pretty doubtful. Neither incarnation of Ritsuko has had even a vague inkling of the Eva's capabilities.
>>
>>123373822
He did while trying to stop Zeruel. If he hadn't done whatever he did everyone would have been fucked anyway.
>>
>>123373757
>completely destroyed asukas character
>pandering
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>>123373963
Actually he did while trying to save Rei. The angel was already destroyed. Perhaps you should rewatch 2.22?
>>
>>123373847
>>123373857
No comment on Shinji? Asukafags pls.
>>
>>123373966
>asukafags
>caring about asuka's characters
>not just in it for the redhead fantasies
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>>123354191
>>
>>123373766
>Katsuragi
I meant Ritsuko.
>>
>>123373966
Pandering often involves killing off a character's integrity. Asuka in Rebuild is just pandering, which is what the Asuka fans want. The idea is that people generally don't like the original Asuka and spend most of their fandoms trying to fantasize in Asuka that doesn't exist, it's a moe monster and Asuka in Rebuild is that sort of thing.

No character, just tsun tsun dere dere plus an open path to ship with Shinji for shippers.

>>123373847
>>123373857
See above. Asuka is trash in Rebuild, but she's pandering to Asukafags regardless. It just so happens that Asukafags are into that sort of trash, and which is why Rebuild Asuka might be the most popular Asuka version yet.
>>
>>123355630
Yes?
>>
>>123374009
They would have been fucked without him anyway. Without the will to save Rei he wouldn't have mustered the strength to defeat the angel.
It also wasn't techincally defeated yet since its core only got destroyed when Shinji pulled Rei out.
>>
>>123355630
It's weird. Anno went all out to place blame on Shinji in an effort to insinuate that he shouldn't like or try to save Rei, and use the emotional breakdown of Shinji as "punishment" for saving Rei, but all he did was to show how twisted his motivations were, and how wrong he is.

>>123362672
Really? Imagine 16 year old you, sitting with your dad, and he tells you it's all right. Your father, is giving you the OK. What could go wrong? Can anything go wrong? Daddy is watching.
>>
>>123374339
This. You can't have one without the other, but we all know 3.0's timeskip plus writing out Rei was just Anno being an asshole cause he's a huge fanboy himself.
>>
>>123374214
>no character, just tsun tsun dere dere
>implying it's impossible for a human to be a bitch first to someone pathetic then care for him later after he shows his capability, without having any of "muh s syndrome"
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIbBRHhScQY
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>>123374393
>It's weird. Anno went all out to place blame on Shinji in an effort to insinuate that he shouldn't like or try to save Rei, and use the emotional breakdown of Shinji as "punishment" for saving Rei, but all he did was to show how twisted his motivations were, and how wrong he is.

Is that what you're butthurt over? Shippers are the worst.
>>
>>123374523
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>
>>123374393
The problem isn't that he tried to save Rei so much as that he sperged out and threw everything else to the wind to do so. Which is pretty much what his dad did.
>>
>>123352274
This is a surprisingly reasonable and moderate stance. I agree with you anon.
I still wish the female cast was better developed and less shitty waifu material though
>>
>>123374541
It's all about your're waifu isn't it? Grow up and move on from mummy.
>>
>>123374214
I still don't see how shitting on Shinji is related to Asuka pandering.
>>
>>123374495
You're literally searching for an archetype in the character. Bravo Asukafag, you're proving that all you want is the tsundere fantasy.
>>
>>123374523
Yep, Anno is really that bad if he's the one writing this. You can really see it in his interviews when he goes on about character popularity.

>>123374552
This was hardly sperging or throwing everything else to the wind. An EVA-invoked berserk/awakening isn't exactly the same thing. Cut down on the hyperbole.
>>
>>123374214
>which is what the Asuka fans want
And how exactly do you know that?
>>
>>123374580
Pandering relates to fans. You only need to look back to the post 2.0 reaction to see why. Generally Asuka fans were livid and hated on Shinji, blaming him for everything - seeing Shinji punished is pandering, while bringing out Asuka to say it and all.

3.0 is a reflection of that.
>>
>>123374656
Because that's what they act like and are attracted to? Wouldn't be pandering otherwise, y'know.

On a more serious level, you can observe how complaints of lacking character development disappeared instantly the moment pandering was active. Even though the character is arguably more unstable and poorly developed than ever before, that didn't matter as long as there was pandering.
>>
>>123374574
You mean your waifu? Still not entirely sure what the fuck you're talking about.

>>123374656
I'd guess >>123374495
is a good indicator. It's sort of a search for shipping cues, with no regard for character and whatnot.
>>
>>123374656
>And how exactly do you know that?

He doesn't, he just projecting.
>>
>>123374598
Blame the fanbase. Even before watching this, I've keep hearing people saying Asuka and Rei are the model of classic tsundere and kuudere.
>>
>>123374786
>You mean your waifu?

Newshit pls
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>>123352274
>I thought the two things that 3.33 focused on, Shinji's confusion and frustration about the world around him and how it leads to his relationship with Kaworu, were handled really well.
Can't agree.

Confusion/frustration is not quite the focus of the movie, and it's quite bad because the source of the frustration and confusion are too forced in to take seriously. It's an unreasonable situation regardless of who you put in his place, so it's not about "his" confusion or frustration, it's just a rather dumb situation. It's externalized from the character, the source of the problems in Rebuild are technically off screen at this point.

Then when Kaworu appears it's just a product of the same thing. They lack any sort of real relationship except, well, shipping teasing.
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>>123374214
>Rebuild Asuka might be the most popular Asuka version yet.

If this is true I'm gonna go postal for real, man.
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>>123374830
Shitposter pls.
>>
>>123374888
>implying anyone here would go postal
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>>123345672
Yes, yes, I get that it's meta.
That's why its awful.

Asuka was turned from a pouty brat into a tsunbitch, so it especially offends me.
>Who seriously prefers Soryu to Shikinami? Nobody
Go fuck yourself.
>>
>>123374214
>which is what the Asuka fans want
Dollfucker pls.
>>
>>123374684
>>123374725
>>123374786
Not everyone who likes Asuka is connected through some sort of hivemind and there is no way to prove that the movie is the way it is to please a certain group of people.
If you want to blame someone for how things turned out blame the creators.
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I thought it was pretty good i was just a little dissapointed it didn't go full shonen
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>>123374888
Popular for porn, at least, but part of that is probably newness factor and her slut plugsuit.
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ITT: One doll fucker annoyed at Rei being written out of the plot in 3.33. You can bitch all you want about Asuka, but nothing will change what happened in 3.33.

At this point I'd expect foam to be building around your mouth because Anno didn't deliver the Rei shipping ending of 2.22. It was a bait and switch and now you're just too damn frustrated to be reasoned with.

I came here to talk about how bad 3.33 was and instead I get a shipping war between Rei and Asuka. Who the fuck wrote the script for this thread, Anno?
>>
>>123375019
The creators are, surprise surprise.... Asuka fans.

There's no way around it.
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>>123375076
Uh, anon, 3.33 is bad and Asuka is part of it whether you like it or not. If you're fine with Asuka being pandering otaku-bait, then you're just as bad as the rest of them.
>>
>>123374214
>>123374888
>Rebuild Asuka might be the most popular Asuka version yet
It's not.
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=110058&pollresults=1
And just google other polls for Soryuu vs Shikinami. Soryuu has always been winning.
>>
>>123375078
Then why is the creators doing what they want pandering?
>>
>>123374888
Don't be surprised. Just think rationally and compare the new vs the original, then consider the fanbase of the character:

>Original Asuka
A failure of a human being, egoistic, self-centered, unable to cope with reality, falls into a spiral of death