Let's settle this, who's the biggest mary sue?

>>123201592
Gae Bolg can kill Accelerator.

Left wasn't even the most powerful character in his own damn series

Gil was the most OP character
Saber was the most OP class
Archer was confirmation that Shirou failed at everything

They both go through a lot of hardships and rough fights man. Are you sure you aren't misusing the term?

>>123201592
Shirou.
He can even cook.

>>123201717
/thread

None...? But Touma if I had to choose

>>123201592
Shiki is a way bigger Gary Stu than Shirou will ever be. Not shitting on either of them but Shiki can kill literally everything.

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>>123202093
She's literally made of Mary Sues.

>>123202281
Wrong Shiki but alright

>>123201626
Accelerator would reflect Gae Bolg and kill Cu easily

>>123201626
Accelerator can manually pump his own blood, so no.

>>123201686
>Archer was confirmation that Shirou failed at everything

Entire point of that shit just flew right over your head, didn't it?

How could Shirou be a mary sue, most characters in FSN thinks he's a retard,

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>>123201592

>>123201592
Between the two of those? Touma, easily.

>>123205610
onii sama will murder you with a new type of magic he himself invented after putting in a day's worth of effort

>>123201592
If you're going to make this sort of thread, at least read the source material of the shit you retarded secondary

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Why I dropped the series

>>123201592
Touma obviously. Shirou has died many more times than Touma ever has and Touma's power of "my right hand denies any magic even my own death" is one of the biggest plot armor i have ever seen.

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>>123201686
Likewise, Touma's just one special snowflake in a cast chock full of them. He's not even the biggest Sue in his own show.

>>123203627
>>123203674
>index fags actually believe this
The moment gae bolg is activate it has already hit its target, only "lucky" people can evade it and we all know how much luck accel has. Also once hit you it can't be heal.

>>123206682
though with the ability to at least negate other people's OP powers he's at least a threat to them.

>>123206678
>Shirou has died many more times than Touma ever has

I'm pretty sure Touma died more in infinite hell

His hand doesn't negate magic, but the supernatural and it acts as a reference point for the world. He isn't negating it, but returning things but to how it should be.

>>123206678
>my right hand denies any magic even my own death
I'll agree that Touma has plot armour, but his right hand is not what makes him overpowered. I mean, it's just his right hand. He doesn't have ranged Imagine Breaker, and he can't even cover his whole body even if it's close-range. It's how he gets through many dangerous situations is where his plot armour comes in. His tactics and luck, in other words.

Also, his right hand does not negate the natural act of dying, although you probably meant that as a joke.

>>123206935
Please. The spear would rebound and stab Cu through the heart and Accelerator would just walk away

>>123207596
even if it rebound and hit Cu it would just go back and hit Accelerator.

>>123205681
>implying you're worth a day's worth of effort

>>123205610
He seems more like someone put a deus ex machina in the main character's place.

>>123205610
>"What how did I lose to you?!?"
>"Well I'll now explain how over the course of 5 minutes and only 20 seconds worth of it will be previously mentioned."

>>123201592
None, both are not mary sue. Oniisama is.

>>123204921
>"You cannot save everyone"
>Entire point of that shit just flew right over your head

>>123207733
The spear cannot hit something that does not exist.
Accelerator with a big hole in his deflection is something that does not exist, Cu would vanish immediately because the spear would use infinite mana adjusting itself to find the weakness that does not exist, then Accelerator would just laugh and walk away

>>123201592
toufag

>>123207596
>>123207733
Dear lord, it's an infinite loop. Never let Lancer use Gae Bolg on Acceerator otherwise the loop will never end.

>>123207954
Archer didn't fail at everything. He died with a smile on his face and was happy with what he accomplished. It was the counter guardian shit that made him reassess things and look back on his life with regret.

UBW has him getting convinced by Shirou that he did do good, and that "it wasn't a mistake".

>>123207960
Uh no, once cuu has activated GB he doesn't need to keep using his mana, the spear will keep on trying to hit acceleartor if it does bounce back without using any more of cuu's mana.

>>123201592
Why don't you read both the VN and the LN before making this thread, huh?

Can SHIKI kill vectors?

>>123201592
ONLY SHIKI CAN KILL BOTH OF THEM. END..

>>123208225
No. Vectors are a concept. Shiki's not at that level.

What he can do is bypass Accelerator's vector shield and kill him directly.

What is this thread even about? Can somebody explain why Shirou and Touma are Mary Sues?

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>>123208405
Learn proper typing etiquette before posting on /a/.

>>123208653
Touma is a faggot who should lose but never does because the meme master in the high tower wants him to keep winning. Whenever he starts to lose he's conveniently bailed out.

* this stops being as true during NT

>>123201686
And yet he defeated all of them.

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>>123208653
This thread is bait for powerlevel fags.
Shirou was never a mary sue and Touma is only considered one cause of his bullshit power.
OP never read any of the source material and if he did he would see that neither of them are anywhere close to being a mary sue.

>>123201592
If Shirou and Touma team up, could they kill Accelerator?

>>123208719
Isnt the reason Touma won his battles in OT was because either of tactics or that he had company?

The best example was Acqua Arc. He was pretty much messed up and became a baseball.

There was also Sister Arc where the clones disrupted Accel's calculations so that they won't get hit by plasma.

Deep Blood Arc was also where Stiyl, even if he was skinned, tricked Aureolus so that he would miss.

But gotta agree on how power Aleister is to the point he can control a person's fate( or that was how I understood it)

NT though...

>>123209014
Aleister doesn't control fate, he controls archetypes

>>123208805
Ah okay...1st timer here.

>>123209102
Please explain.

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>>123206682
>Type 64
Fucking nips and their pleb guns

Shirou wishes he's a gary stu: he could have saved Illya.

>>123209173
It's brought up in Nt11 Epilogue by dog Kihara

>“I appreciate your high opinion of me, but you are wrong. Besides, the Kiharas cannot defeat the ruler of this city.”

>“Oh, you mean because of the Archetype Controller? That’s just cheating!”

>Archetype was a psychological term for a common understanding or sense of values that developed as each member of a race or group dealt with an identical problem in the same way. These included religious concepts such as the palace of the gods being above the clouds and the prison for sinners being below the earth. In an extremely broad and shallow sense, the idea that the Japanese loved rice and Americans loved burgers was an archetype.

>But what if you could control those?

>What if you could create them, send them out into the world, and even destroy them?

>“He was the one that used the terms Academy City, esper, and science side and tossed them inside a framework that could be called mankind’s worship of science. To go a step further, the category of the Kiharas is another example. That is why we cannot defeat this ruler. If he wanted to, he could cut us off from our surroundings using the archetype of heretical science and cause the very definition of our existence to vanish into thin air. We might manage to survive, but we would become defanged cowards. And I shouldn’t have to explain what happens to a defanged and declawed beast that’s thrown out into the wild.”

>(On top of that, he brought glory to the archetype of modern Western magic during the Golden period and it is still strongly influenced by him. He could always use that archetype to affect the very foundation of today’s magic side.)

>>123206935
Not only luck, but also a "shield" what has more energy that a spear. Or prevent Lancer to use his NP.

>>123209313
>>123209313
Sorry but could you dumb it down? Even that explanation from NT11 still confused me.

>>123209578
He can control category, concept definition.
If you belong to some category and he erases it, You've gone for good.

>>123209578
I'm lazy as fuck, so have the dumb downed garbage from the wiki

>Aleister Crowley has the Archetype Controller (原型制御 (アーキタイプコントローラー) Genkei Seigyo (Ākitaipu Kontorōrā)?), allowing him control over archetypes, a psychological concept for a common understanding or sense of values that developed as each member of a race or group dealt with an identical problem in the same way. Somehow Aleister can create, send them out of the world, and even destroy them.[10]

>For example, he can change the current archetype of Academy City that could be called as man's worship of science into an archetype that science is heretical. Kihara Noukan states that this power is so great that despite leaving the magic side his is still the archetype of modern Western magic of the Golden period and are still strongly influenced by him to this day.

It's called archetype controller, it's pretty self-explanatory

>>123209809
Right. He could even change the nature of the childhood friend archetype and increase their chances of success at winning the MCbowl.

>>123209809
Ouch. That changes a lot of things then?

>>123209816
Even the wiki wasn't that helpful, since they just copy-pasted from the novel.

>>123210028
On another note, what will happen to Demonbane if he just erase the concept of Lovecraft?

>>123207596
The spear now surpassed logic and fuck your vector, I still pierced you.

Could kanzaki beat saber?

>>123210278
I'm still not sure how Kanzaki survived in the Movie, where she crashed landed on Earth. Will Excalibur even work on her?

>>123210395
She used magic to shield herself during re-entry.

>>123210436
Does that mean she could use the same magic to survive Excalibur?

>>123210478
Dunno.

Depends on which causes more damage. The crystallized wishes of the planet condensed into a super-hot beam, or atmospheric re-entry.

Considering space shuttles can survive re-entry just fine despite being man-made, I'm pretty sure Excalibur hurts more. Kanzaki might have used a spell to slow down her descent, after all.

>>123207960
Not how GB works, it only has a mana start, it doesn't require more afterwards.

>>123210592
What about in a straight sword fight? Saber seems likely to win with her swordplay but Kanzaki has the range advantage with her 2m nodachi and defensive magic. Also, with Saint powers, Kanzaki could also be most likely on par with most Servants on the Holy Grail War.

>>123210478
I'm pretty sure those were just basic spells that regulate and shield the body. I doubt it could handle something as high tier as a blast from Excalibur.

Considering she is a Saint, she might be able to take it head on and survive. Probably

>>123205396
this nigga wins gold right here.

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Whoever wins, Tohno Shiki kills.

>>123210089
Aleister can change the concept of Lovecraft to turn him into a romance novelist. Imagine that.

>>123210983
All his works turns to romantic shit, where Cthulu and Nyar fights over a girl they want to-

Wait a minute, that would mean he would be an ero novelist that focuses on monster rape... wtf?

>>123210762
No matter what, there's no way Shichiten Shichitou's gonna be more durable than Excalibur. Also, unless she can pull off something as ridiculous as Tsubame Gaeshi, it's likely that Saber would have the upper hand.

Plus, that Instinct of Saber's is something else.

Aside from that, I'm fairly certain that Saber's the superior swordsman.

>>123211147
Thought so.

Aleister's Archetype Controller seems frightening, especially in the context of Grail Wars.
What if he has the ability to change Saber's archetype to that of another class or another personality, like Arturia getting the archetype of Lancelot? It would be pure mindfuck goodness.

>>123211427
Huh? What are you talking about?

We don't even know how the Archetype Controller works. Yes, it controls archetypes, but that description is far more vague than you realize. You're jumping the gun.

Master: Touma // Servant: Birdway [Caster]
Master: Saten // Servant: Misaka [Rider]
Master: Last Order // Servant: Accelerator [Berserker]
Master: Index // Servant: Kanzaki [Lancer]
Master: Hamazura // Servant: Mugino [Archer]
Master: Maika // Servant: Tsuchimikado [Assassin]
Master: Villian // Servant: Knight Leader [Saber]

Place your bets.

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>>123201592
>Shirou
>Sue
It was hard deciding if I should post a laughing Gil or Unlimited Bait Works.

>>123201592
Can someone remind me what a mary sue is? Last time I checked, having a powerful ability, for the setting that is, is not even close to make a character a mary sue, but maybe I am too old and the meaning of the word changed like so many others.

>>123211566
Birdway of course

>>123205681
>Whole day
That sounds like too much an honor.

>>123211566
>Master: Touma // Servant: Birdway [Caster]

It's like as if you want it to be completely one-sided

>>123211834
Let's pretend Touma can't blow up servants by touching them

>>123212096
Even in that case, it's still too one sided. Birdway power is equal to a saints if memory serves me well and Touma has already proven he can destroy a good portion of everyone else by himself.

Too OP of a combo

>>123211573
Term referring to fanfiction self-inserts who steal the spotlight from the heroes of the work the fanfic is based on, though the meaning has evolved into "a character for whom the whole world bends over just to make him better than everyone".
Basically, if the character is loved by everyone, is more successful than anyone, breaks the rules of the established setting and both the plot and the world revolve around the idea of making him as great as possible, then he's a Mary Sue. John Galt from Atlas Shrugged is a Mary Sue.

>>123212738
Kira Yamato of Gundam SEED fits the description. Not only did he steal the spotlight of SEED Destiny, the remasters bend over so that his on-screen kill became an accident.