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dragon ball > dragon ball z >No flying (except Goku and

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dragon ball > dragon ball z

>No flying (except Goku and only with the Nimbus)
>No power levels
>Roshi is a main character
>martial arts tournaments
>red ribbon army
>no power levels

Dragon ball is one of the best animes of all time. DBZ, not so much.
>>
>>122560862
>No flying (except Goku and only with the Nimbus)
Did you just stop watching Dragon Ball when the crane school showed up?
>>
>>122560963
that wasnt really flying; it was more like floating.

also
>goku wasnt an alien
>>
One time I saw someone post a version of dragon ball hosted on mega that had the kai treatment done to it. I don't remember what it was called nor do I have the link. Anyone know what I'm talking about and have a link/name?
>>
>>122560862
Yeah, no. Flying was very much a thing in Dragonball.
>>
>>122560862
It was nice how it felt like DB was built around the martial arts tournaments.

Power levels wouldn't have been too bad for DBZ if they hadn't escalated to "destroy entire planets in a single basic attack" less than a quarter of the way through. You just can't raise the stakes any higher than that.
>>
>>122561002
>goku wasnt an alien
This is most important. The saiyan bullshit ruined everything.
>>
>>122561045
The 4th Dragon Ball movie was a retelling of most of Dragon Ball with Dragon Ball GT art.
>>
>>122561194
I'm pretty sure it was implied though.
>>
>>122561242
Nope, it literally came out of nowhere when Radditz showed up
>>
>>122561242
Never implied.
They tried to retcon that shit in the Bardock special when they showed Gohan find Goku in his pod. Goku was originally based on the monkey king. There was no alien implication.
>>
>animes
>>
>>122560862
I only liked dragonball after the first tournament towards Tao

strikes me as the best combo between action and character building

I prefer DBZ up to the end of frieza
>>
>>122561313
>>122561289

Retards.

>>122561242

Krillin fucking called that shit way early on, everybody laughed about it and said it can't be true.
>>
>>122561242
okay, he was found as an orphan somewhere in the wilderness.
But the world of dragonball was full of weird creatures and talking monsters.
>>
>>122561289
>>122561313
Goku's background was a mystery until then, but he had to have SOME background.
>>
>>122561382
>Krillin joked once about Goku being some kind of alien means Toriyama originally intended Goku to be an alien
That is literally worse than claiming Lucas originally intended for Darth Vader to be Luke's father.
>>
>>122561453
>But the world of dragonball was full of weird creatures and talking monsters.

And yet in this world everybody always found Goku to be the really strange creature.
>>
>>122560862
>Dragon ball is one of the best animes of all time
DB is mediocre compared to the shonen of today like FMA, One Piece(manga only) and HxH.
>>
>>122561382
>An offhand joke is the same as implying shit
>Nevermind the fact that it was back when the show was still a re-interpretation of Joueny to the West with Goku being a stand-in for Sun Wukong aka the monkey king
>>
>>122560862
How deep into this garbage do I have to watch before goku grows up? He's so fucking annoying as a kid I couldn't make it threw the first ep
>>
>>122561607
gr8b8
>>
>>122561502

Oh fuck off, Toriyama never intended to go past the first wish for panties, what the fuck do you want, if somebody joked about it early on in the actual show it's not like it totally came out of nowhere. How many faggots do you know turn into giant fucking monkeys come the full moon?

>That is literally worse than claiming Lucas originally intended for Darth Vader to be Luke's father.

He most likely did if you knew anything about the production of the original trilogy script you'd know he didn't make it up as he went, he made enough script for about 3 movies. The only reason they destroy the death star in the first movie is because he needed to make the film standalone.
>>
>>122561233
It was definitely a bunch of episodes, and they had a specific name, but I can't seem to find them again.
>>
>>122561575
>Nevermind the fact that it was back when the show was still a re-interpretation of Joueny to the West with Goku being a stand-in for Sun Wukong aka the monkey king

This re-interpretation ended pretty soon and the stand-in soon surpassed the the original.
>>
DBZ has a pretty serious internal logic flaw.

Take One Piece for example. The Grand Line exists as a logical way to scale up the challenges faced. As you progress, you face harder enemies and challenges because the people you are facing had to deal with the same obstacles you did to get there. It makes some form of sense at least.

DBZ just throws exponentially progressing bullshit monsters from space that never showed up before.
>>
>>122561640
I'm being serious. I never watched it and just skipped dragon ball entirely and went to dbz. But it sounds like I need to watch it.
>>
>>122561648
Alien excuse isn't valid when half the population of Earth is a talking dog.
>>
>>122561778

Half of Earth being dog was only because a furry wished to be king.
>>
Is there a definitive uncut release for dragonball? I know DBZ has the dragonbox.
>>
>>122561709
Just watch the martial arts tournaments, and maybe the King Piccolo stuff for the tie-in. It's a fairly mediocre adventure anime with a few worthwhile arcs.
>>
>>122560862
You forgot the best part
>Piccolo is a demon
>Not an alien slug thing
>>
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>>122561966

Now hold on, THAT shit might have been something Toriyama planned especially because Kami speaks a mysterious language to him that nobody else knows except Piccolo.

I remember reading something about that.
>>
>>122562027
That only came up in DBZ though
>>
>>122562027
Nah, Kami was just supposed to be the current god of the Earth and Piccolo was supposed to be his inner evil he expelled when he took the role.

The alien thing was just a lazy retcon to justify a second set of dragonballs to resurrect everybody after the Vegeta fight.
>>
>>122562206

The manga was DB all the way.
>>
>>122562236
It's easier to say DB and DBZ then talking about arcs or timejumps
>>
>goku wasnt an alien

No back then he was just plagiarism from Journey to the West.

>No power levels

Being this delusional.

If you want to be a hipster at least choose an obscure show that only a handful of people remember.
>>
>>122562466
>No power levels
>Being this delusional.
But everyone was competent and more or less at the same level until the Piccolo arc.
>>
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Post Yamcha
>>
>>122561706

>As you progress, you face harder enemies and challenges because the people you are facing had to deal with the same obstacles you did to get there

And magical fruit that gives you superpowers.
>>
>>122562649
>But everyone was competent and more or less at the same level until the Piccolo arc.

No, Goku always outclassed his friends/teammates. The only reason he didn't do everything on his own was due to his weakpoints.
>>
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>>122561313
>>122561289
>>122561502
>>122561575
Fuck off.
>>
>>122562912
>grasping for straws this hard
>>
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>>122562976
>>
>>122561289
>>122561313
Of course it was implied Goku was an alien or not of Earth. It wasn't stated he was a saiyan specifically, but he had a fucking tail and could turn into a giant monkey during a full moon. Everyone acknowledged he was out of the ordinary but didn't call him an alien because he looked human.

Also he had incredible, abnormal strength for a kid.
>>
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>>122562652
What was up with his floaty cat thing
>>
>>122563086
Not being normal doesn't make you an alien. Especially in a world were demons and monsters exist besides that some of the "humans" are animal-people.
>>
>>122563140
He was Yamcha's onahole.
>>
>>122563086
He also survived getting hit by a car and getting shot in the forehead in the very first episode.
>>
>>122563257
And? Humans can also destroy the moon with energy beams they fire from their hands.
>>
>>122563209
If you're living in a world where there are fucking demons and monsters that exist alongside humans, why would bulma and everyone freak out when Goku turns into a monkey, or that he has a tail, or make comments that he specifically is strange when there are other strange things that exist?
>>
>>122560862
>no power levels
>no flying

What even is the Piccolo Jr. fight?
>>
>>122562912
>>122563030
I'll give you the Piccolo one, but come on, taking a boast seriously?
>>
>Toriyama didn't plan for King Piccolo to be an alien in his arc, but once they introduced Kami and Junior he had come up with the idea of Namekians.
>He didn't intend for Goku to be anything but a weird magical being who acted as a throwback to Sun Wukong until shortly before Raditz appeared, and retroactively fit the sci-fi elements into his character. Mentions of him being an alien before that are just coincidences since people always called him a weirdo, not human or a monster due to his tail.

Do some research guys. He's talked about this stuff a lot.
This is a man who didn't plan past the first three chapters and didn't even know what the wish at the end of the Pilaf arc would be as he was writing it. He made tons of shit up as he went along and his talent as a world builder comes from his ability to pull his new ideas together with the world he previously established so naturally.
>>
>>122563368
The main character needed to be different for the premise of the plot.
>>
>>122563209
You can make this argument if Goku was revealed as a demon or some other shit.


>Not being normal doesn't make you a demon. Especially in a world were magic and monsters exist besides that some of the "humans" are animal-people.

Akira obviously didn't have the intent from the start, but he was clearly meant to be nonhuman and when he decided to make that nonhuman = alien, only he knows (which he probably doesn't thanks to lolalzheimers.)
>>
>>122563209
And yet even animal people and demons were surprisedby his tail strength and endurance.
>>
>>122563436
Except that it all fell apart after Raditz showed up.
>>
>>122563368
Because they live in a city and get freaked out easily by forces of nature. Put a lion in a city and people will freak out, not because the lion is such a strange creature, but because they don't want to be right next to it. Same for Goku in his giant monkey form, they freak out since its dangerous. Especially after they figured out he killed his own grandfather without knowing it.

Most of the comments on him being strange are due to his behavior, which comes from growing up alone in the wilderness, not him being non-humans. It would actually be less strange if they wouldn't consider him as a person, but a wild beast instead.
>>
>>122563522
Yes, because a little kid is stronger than a grown up man. They are also surprised by Kuririns power.
>>
>>122560862
>dragon ball > dragon ball z
Truth.

>Dragon ball is one of the best animes of all time.
Wrong.

Dragon Ball is good but not a best-tier show.
>>
>>122563332
After expending years training their mind and body.

Goku had superpowers and was strnger than most adults from day one.
>>
>>122560862
Dragon Ball manga > *
>>
>>122562884
>The only reason he didn't do everything on his own was due to his weakpoints.

He got over that tail weakness pretty quick.
>>
>>122561045
https://mega.co.nz/#F!hwt02bLY!JbyiECrIPl5Jx_81eR-AvQ
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>>122563819
Besides the tail, there also were the story-wise convenient times were he was weaker due to being hungry
>>
>>122561502
darth vaders name is LITERALLY DARK FATHER
>>
>>122563667
>Because they live in a city and get freaked out easily by forces of nature

You could make that case with Bulma, sure. But Yamcha who lives in the wastelands. And Krillin who doesn't live in the city.
>>
>>122562721
I'm not talking about realism. I'm talking about things that make sense withing the context of the world that they are in, which almost never happens with DBZ.
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>>122563769
Goku spend years training by surviving on his own in the wilderness. Just that most people don't know that (and why would they?) and are shocked when they see his power.
And he's very quick when it comes to learning how to fight.
>>
>>122562884
They were still able to hold themselves up in tournaments and ins fights against henchmen and even the villain of the arc, compare to post-timeskip where they just exist to job at the beginning of the fight and then they just sit on the sidelines while the Saiyans (mostly Goku) get shit done
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>>122561002
>goku wasnt an alien

This
DB was destroyed once Akira decided to introduce aliens
>>
>>122563990
Goku didn't train when he lived alone before Bulma appeared. He just lived alone. Once he started training with Roshi was when his power increased exponentially. Same with Kami.

That's not normal for a human, even if you're a quick learner. If that was the case, Krillin would be just as strong, if not stronger, because he's older.
>>
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>You will never be a mexican kid watching dragon ball again.

This series had a cultural impact here in Mexico.
>>
>>122563869
thank you anon, exactly what I was looking for
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>>122564009
Kuririn actually did more in the Namek-arc than in all the time in DB, where the best he managed to do was beating Chiao-zu
>>
I could be mistaken, but I recall Android 8 identifying Goku as an alien. He didn't say anything, but it showed up on his scanner thing at some point.
>>
>>122560862
Emperor Pilaf Saga > World Tournament Saga > Piccolo Jr Saga > Tien Shinhan Saga >Commander Blue >>>>> everything else

But yes, Dragon Ball in general is way comfier and better than DBZ. The only DBZ sagas that hold up are the saiyan and frieza saga.
>>
>>122564119
Surviving alone in the wilderness is training in its own. Piccolo basically forced that training on Gohan for half a year.
>>
>>122564176
>Killign a minor cannon fodder henchmen at the beginning of the arc
>Picking up Dende while Gohan distracs Dodoria
>Jobbing all the way through the Ginyu and Frieza fights
>>
>>122564195
True, but it's probably just what they interpreted an unidentified life form as .
>>
>>122563209
>No one else in the world as a human body and monkey combo
>No one else is naturally bullet, fire, blast proof. Even Tao got BTFOed by a grenade.
>No one else can turn into king Kong.

You are in denial. Goku was unique from the beginning Toriyama eventually had to explain why Goku was so overpowered so he decide to take the alien route.
>>
>>122564326
Krillian and Master roshi both got shot a bunch of times by Launch and didn't die.
>>
>>122564326
Unique? Yes
Alien? No, there was no hint on it. He could as well been a monkey-demon or monkey-deity or whatever.
>>
>>122564326
And you are trying to prove that he was planned to be an alien from the beginning by trying to retroactively turn every instance of him being werid/out of place/overpowered int proff that he was meant to be an alien from the very beginning.
>>
>>122564302
Getting beaten up by General Blue or killed by Piccolos henchmen isn't really better.
>>
>>122561966
>>122560862
>>122564326

Dragon Ball was based on traditional Chinese fantasy tales, like Journey to the West.

Dragon Ball Z was sci fi/space opera (at least first saga). That's why they had space travel and time travel and stuff.
>>
>>122564504
You'd think Toriyama would start a new series if he wanted to write about space opera alien fighters and shit, not completely retcon an existing one.
>>
>>122564302
>Cutting the tail of the "emperor of the universe"

He also was the reason why Goku transformed. Do you think Goku would had done the same for Gohan? He would be like "Oh shit Chichi is going to kill me!"
>>
>>122564445
>prove that he was planned to be an alien from the beginning

No one is stupid enough to say that, Toriyama had no idea the manga would be that long, nothing besides the first few arcs was planed, Goku would forever be a mysterious monkey boy if Shounen Jump didn't asked for more and more chapters.
>>
>>122564326
I agree with you. People are trying to make some assumption that DB and DBZ are two separate things when in fact they are part of the same whole. There is no separation in the manga.

Doesn't matter if Toriyama went through the story week to week when writing it, if Goku was revealed to be an alien when Raditz shows up, he was always an alien. The hints in earlier DB added to that theory.
>>
>>122564550
Shounen Jump and Toei wouldnt let him end or reboot DB.
>>
>YFW Piccolo kills Goku the same way Goku killed Piccolo Daimaƍ

THE DEEPEST LORE
>>
>>122564234
>not liking Taopaipai
>not liking Buu Saga

>>122564628
In the case of Krillin, he wouldn't be able to be revived that time. Not the same for Gohan.

>>122564445
Goku wasn't planned to be an alien from the beginning, that much is obvious. Him being an alien doesn't contradict anything previously in the series however, and there's really no reason to give Toriyama any flake for it.
>>
>>122564445
When did I said that?

That fag keeps saying that Goku powers were not abnormal because there was dinosaurs and animal people. I am saying that Goku was not normal even if the story took place in a place in a fantasy like world .
>>
>>122564550
see>>122564652

It was probably his idea, but SJ won't let go the cash cow.
On a side note, Oda said he want to do a mecha manga once OP is finished. Can you imagine what would happen if SJ don't let him stop writing OP, and Oda just turn OP into a mecha manga?
>>
>>122564913
>not liking Buu Saga
Buu arc was utter rubbish and the ultimate example of Toriyama not giving a fuck anymore
>>
>>122564913
Mercenary Tao was part of General Blue Saga, wasn't he?
>>
>>122564939
>Can you imagine what would happen if SJ don't let him stop writing OP

Stop. God.
>>
>>122564939
One piece will never end anyway.
>>
>>122564978
He showed after the Blue arc
>>
>>122564975
Buu Saga was the closest thing to the original tone of dragonball, and was absolutely fun as fuck.
>>
I love that small episode with Tao giving Goku a puzzle and stealing the Dragon Balls before the Cell Games
>>
>>122564437
Personally, I would have loved it if he went off that way instead aliens.
>>
>>122561706
>>122563985


Nah the scaling makes perfect sense in DBZ.

Raditz is a weak scout that gets send out. He is Gokus brother so very close to his strength with normal training.
Vegeta and Nappa are some underlings that get interested because of the Dragon Ball Z but they are "elite" Saiyajin so stronger.

Goku himself travels to Namek to challenge stronger and stronger foes as he goes up Frieezas army. The strongest being his elite strike force.
>>
>>122565653
>Goku himself travels to Namek to challenge stronger and stronger foes
Except he doesn't, when he finally arrives most of the arc is already over.
>>
>>122561706
>>122565653

What about thevillains in the Majin buu saga? What were they up to in the rest of the manga? What if Bibidi, Babidi, Buu or Dabura met Goku earlier?
>>
>>122565653
Oh wow. It sure is lucky that Raditz didn't show up before Goku was able to take him on. Then you have Dr. Gero, the androids, Cell, Majiin Buu.

All of them exponentially stronger than the last. All of them capable of completely destroying the Earth if not for Goku. All of them conveniently waited their turn so the power levels wouldn't be mismatched.

Since there's no power level cap in the DBZ universe, who knows if Buu is even the strongest?
>>
>>122564939
Oda incorporated his mecha elements into Franky realizing he wouldn't have the time or patience to do another long running series after One Piece.
>>
>>122564975

Buu saga was brilliant. It actually established a villain which, in it's pure form, power levels didn't matter shit against.

Kid buu could have bee overpowered, smashed, and vaporised 1000 times, but his ki level would not drop, and he would keep regenerating. Sure, absorbing saiyans gave him a power boost, but it made him impure and less of a regenerating bubblegum beast.

It's pretty much why they had to use the spirit bomb, because nothing else would have worked in the end. He got distracted, fell asleep, ate candy, had tantrums etc. He was essentially a dragonball villain.
>>
>>122565653
>>122566093
Have you forgotten the whole part of the Buu saga where through the entire opening bits the main characters were curbstomping every villain?
>>
>>122566093

You're forgetting the beginning of the Buu arc, where Vegeta and Goku just thwacked the henchmen around for shits and giggles until majin buu showed up.
>>
>>122566093
Cell was made using Freeza and Saiyan DNA, and Buu was only reborn because they were able to use Gohan's power. Both of those were well justified.
Androids 16 through 20 were all bullshit though.
>>
>>122566623
>Buu was only reborn because they were able to use Gohan's power
No, Gohan gave a lot of power, but they would have been able to get the power otherwise, just that it would have taken some more time.
>>
>>122566807
The fact Buu was never reborn in Trunks' timeline is evidence that without someone as powerful as Gohan it would have taken fucking forever to wake up Buu early.
He would have shown up eventually but way further down the line, assuming it even happened during the casts lifetimes.
>>
>>122566926
It's more evidence that Toriyama didn't think that far ahead and another reason why time-travel is such a dangerous thing to include in stories.
>>
>>122567048
Whenever you introduce space travel, instantaneous long range movement, alternate universes and time travel into a world with intelligent life on other planets and no limit on power levels, you don't have any viable reason why everything wouldn't just get wiped out.
>>
>>122560862
I don't know about all that, but Vegeta is undefeated against Goku. Also, better father, husband and friend.
>>
>>122567326
I do like how Vegeta is actually a fairly exceptional family man.
>>
>>122561194
>saiyan bullshit ruined everything
Nope. Long before aliums Toriama decided that the relative strength of the characters would never change. Yamcha is always the jobber, Tien will always be weaker than Piccolo, Goku will always be the best and so on.
>>
>>122567426
Kuririn and Yamcha traded their places in the hierarchy though.
>>
>>122567426
This. The manga never had a well balanced cast of competent fighters. Early Dragon Ball placed even more emphasis on Goku than some of the later arcs.
They just feel more relevant back then because those were their introduction arcs. The only cast members Toriyama went out of his way to keep relevant were Krillin, Bulma, Piccolo and Vegeta.
>>
>>122567407
became one maybe
>>
>>122567498
No way. By the first tournament, the first opportunity for them to both kick around, Yamcha is established as the worse of the two in their fights against Roshi.
It doesn't ever flip flop. Yamcha loses to Tien worse than he loses to Goku. He loses to Piccolo in less of a struggle than Tien loses to Goku (in fact by this point their are retroactive power levels listed for them explicitly defining this).
>>
>>122567498
I'm pretty sure Krillin ends DBZ as the strongest human.
>>
>>122567963
which is bullshit from a bullshit artist who can't remember jack about his own series yet keeps making more shit up for the money
>>
>>122567760
>Yamcha loses to Tien worse than he loses to Goku

Because Goku held himself back and won in a way without hurting his friend very unlike Tien. Yamcha still seemed stronger compared to Kuririn at that point. In the final arc against Piccolo, both are out anyway.
>>
>>122568078
Krillin is the strongest human because he's a good character who's present through the whole manga and has a role to play.
Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu are flat throwaway characters who finished their arcs after the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament and barely contributed anything afterwars. Yamcha's only accomplishment throughout the entire manga is getting Puar to cut off Goku's tail the first time.

Keeping Krillin more relevant than the rest of the Turtle School fighters was an obvious decision and if you think Toriyama is a hack for it then you need to stop obsessing over power levels.
>>
>>122568178
No Tien was doing fine it's just Goku had spent the last three years learning the hard counter (ki sensing) to Tien's splitting technique.
Goku being a dick to goad Tien into idiotic decision making is more strategery and bravado than anything else.
Like I mentioned there are power levels for the third tournament listed that bare this interpretation out.
>>
>>122568347
it's fucking stupid story writing and you need to stop taking the author's dick so deep
>>
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>download R1 rips of DB
>think they're decent enough
>someone on /a/ tells me to get the utsukushii R2J rips
>better, larger frame, better colors, better quality, better sound (doesn't sound stereo but dual mono for sure), original title cards and previews, and WTF i didn't even know there were different versions of the OP and ED!!
>>
pop quiz. who here knows what color android 18's hair is?
>>
>>122568620
Why? Because your favorite character is getting shafted?
Krillin had way more interactions with the villains of most arcs than the rest of the fighters, actually went to Namek, has one of the strongest attacks in the series with kienzan and is a far better character than fucking Yamcha. As the main characters best friend he should be more relevant than Bulma's ex.

Toriyama made some fucking stupid decisions with Dragon Ball but you guys will call him a hack for anything.
>>
>>122568981
>implying favorites
more likely krillin is your favorite

>toriyama wrote stupid shit
then we agree

>story relevance mattering for power
dumb. especially since they are both worthless
>>
>>122568962
black and blue.
>>
>>122569093
is that you toriyama?
>>
>>122569091
My favorite is fucking Yajirobe.
Stop giving so much of a shit about power levels.
>>
>>122569163
>fucking yajirobe
i was unaware there was hentai of him

>stop calling out shit writing
fuck yourself to yajirobe some more
>>
>>122568962
#ffe889
>>
>>122569265
akira says it was purple
>>
>>122569412
I guess it makes sense, if 17 and 18 were twins, they can't have different color hair.
>>
>>122564234
Cell saga had a different style than the original but it was way better than Freeza. It's just that we get a bunch of facebook-level plebs who never watched past Namek and circlejerk over and over about it thanks for nostalgiafaggotry
>>
>>122561169
it's this. this is something I feel One Piece handled very well (with the exception of haki).

Here from the very beginning you can see the 'end spectrum' of what is possible roughly. Sure, the new generation will surpass Garp, Sengoku and Whitebeard but only by this much.

In DB it was like "well they just defeated the strongest being in the Universe... what now? I have it! There was ANOTHER strongest being in the universe just sleeping" ==> this happened actually 3 times in DB
>>
>>122564652
>few arcs

I think the most Toryama planned was the two following chapters, that's it. He never planned an specific ending point or an specific twist, the entire stoy from beggining was made on random-mode
>>
>>122569912
17 had purple hair too akira-sensei?
>>
>>122564550

No, the thing about this kind of shonen is that the author uses whatever the shit he wants, that's why even when it's based on an older period in time, they still have advanced tech when it suits them, and current age shit when it suits them too, all mixed up.
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