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'The MOE trend is over' says Space Dandy writter Dai Sato

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>Sato talked extensively about the influence of the moe movement on recent anime series. Moe, or "cute" culture, examines ideas about art, feminity, and thematic complexity vs aesthetic and design. Space Dandy draws influence from the energy and debate around moe culture, and the idea that "maybe you don't even need a story" to have a story.

>"We thought of Space Dandy as a kind of counter-approach to this overall trend," Sato said, citing the popular Puella Madoka Magica as an example of a moe-inspired anime that went deeper but was kinda heavy.

>"We thought about making Space Dandy with a kind of strong story that makes series like Space Dandy and Kill La Kill stand out so much. We wanted a counter-idea that was more focused on comedy."

>Commenting tacitly on Kill La Kill's fanservice-laden scantily clad female characters, Sato also joked that they also wanted to head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs," by way of commenting on the expansion of moe culture's ideas about what could be cute and interesting.

>Space Dandy also encompasses a deep respect for '80s culture, Sato said, noting the series' affection for early technological gadgetry that seems amusingly outdated by today's standards. He also noted that Kill La Kill likewise references '70s culture and early shoujo manga and anime.

> "I also feel that there's a real movement right now, a real popularity in looking back at the Golden Age of anime in the '70s and '80s and thinking about how that style can be incorporated into new anime."

>Sato said that one aspect of that nostalgia dealt with convergence culture and collaborative fandom. He cited the explosion of interest in Attack on Titan as a "return to interest in the Big Riddle, or the Big Question," another theme of Golden Age anime.
>>
>>122556656
>the Big Riddle, or the Big Question
Hitchhiker's anime confirmed.
>>
The man is not wrong. Moeshit is cancer.
>>
He sounds like /v/ incarnate. No wonder space dandy was so shit.
>>
>the influence of the moe movement on recent anime series.
>recent
Was this guy born in 2005?
>>
>>122556656
He's just trying to pump up his own shows. Moe stronk.
>>
Sounds like the kind of stuff Yamakan said before everybody started hating him and refused to buy his shows and he lost his job and became an untouchable for a while.
>>
>>122556656
But Space Dandy and KlK were fucking awful and only appeal to the lowest common denominator of teenage boys that laugh at boob and poop jokes.
>>
>>122556656
>head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs,"
oh dear god please no more cowtits
>>
>>122556656
>> "I also feel that there's a real movement right now, a real popularity in looking back at the Golden Age of anime in the '70s and '80s and thinking about how that style can be incorporated into new anime."
That's why space dandy was so popular in japan
>>
I disagree that it's "dying" per say.
I'd say more the over-saturation in the current TV market is making only 10 out of 1000 moe shows profitable due to competition and weeding lower studios out.
From this I could see studios want to venture into new genres and take ideas from other mediums in order to make a more interesting product that will appeal to the Japanese market.
Space Dandy was not made for the Japanese however, it was made for the West so that's not a fair example to use, however I feel like we are in a way going back to making more diverse anime and bringing back 90s sci-fi as well as strengthening the SoL genre.
>>
>>122556656

Great counter approach, Space Dandy appealed to redditors and the toonami crowd and didn't change shit in Japan. Guy's almost as much of a hack as Watanabe.
>>
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Moe means too many things to different people, We'll never know if its alive or dead.
>>
>>122556656
>Moe
>Trend
>Over
Now that is some funny ass shit.

I suppose when you are a filthy westaboo and consider the western market of any importance or relevance to the anime market this is what you actually believe.
>>
>>122559395
>I'd say more the over-saturation in the current TV market is making only 10 out of 1000 moe shows profitable due to competition and weeding lower studios out.

We don't know that.
>>
>>122556656
Same shit people have been saying since the mid 90s. Maybe I'm 20 more years they will finally be able to fell the giant.
>>
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>>122556656
>Madoka: 68k
>Space Dandy: 1k
And this guy matters?
>>
>HAHA, moe is over! It's totally done you guys! Finished!
>Not that moe is gone, why don't you try my mature show for mature audiences, Space Dandy!

>...please for the love of god, someone give a shit about my show. You remember Cowboy Bebop right? It's just like that I swear, please buy the BDs.
>>
Honestly don't think it leaning one way or the other. Personally don't favor one genre over another and tend to enjoy most things including dandy and klk. Sure the west probably enjoys more dandy styled things over something like yuru yuri but its always been that way.
>>
>>122556656
>Space Blandy writer
>having any sort of weight on this matter
Loving every laugh
>>
>>122556656
>>
>>122559136
That's what anime is, basically.
>>
Sure is relevant news.

https://www.dailydot.com/fandom/dai-sato-anime-boston-cowboy-bebop-space-dandy/
>Last updated Mar 23, 2014, 10:15am CT
>>
>reddit dandy
>good
Pick one
>>
>>122556656
YES! BRING MANIME BACK!
>>
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>>122556656
Thank you based Sato-san for saving all of anime from the moe-trash.
>>
>>122556656
>writes a shitty not-cowboy bebop show
>seems to be completely unaware of 萌え in manga and anime
>wants to move away from DFL

What a fucking faggot. Hope he dies of bowel cancer.
>>
Space dandy was shit
>>
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>The MOE trend is over
Again? This fag doesn't even understand moé
>>
But Dandy was moe.
>>
>>122559672
>>122559630
It's the same mindset of the Manime fags in the west. Their shows don't sell so they come out crying about how MOE is killing the industry.
>>
>>122559844
don't worry anon he already shits cancer from his mouth
>>
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>>122556656
>moe trend
>moe movement
>>
>>122556656
This guy is the next Yamakan.
>>
how is something moe? If I get the chest burning feel (moeru) from watching a character's acting, is it moe?
>>
>>122560031
They don't seem to get that sales are how people vote for what they want.
>>
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relevant
>>
>>122556656
>moe style
How does an actual Japanese person in the industry not understand what the actual word means?

Is he going to rant at gundam for hazing Zakus?
>>
OFFICIAL AND OBJECTIVE BEST AND WORST AOTS of 2014

BEST:

Winter: Mikakunin
Spring: Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka?
Summer: Locodol
Fall: Yama no Susume

Worst AOTS of 2014:

Winter: Space Dandy
Spring: Ping Pong
Summer: Free!
Fall: Sword Art Online
>>
>>122556656
>>122556880
Just to clarify, this guy wrote 4 episodes of Space Dandy.

Space Dandy is a fantastic show where creative freedom is given to the staff of each episode with a lot of guest directors and writers. It's not a show where you'll like every episode, as a result.
>>
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>>122560291
Gen Urobuchi 'There was no moe in the 80s.'

>TP: You’re known for “darker” stories. What compels you to explore thus? What message are you hoping to convey?
>GU: I got into anime during the 80s. Back then, there was no moe. Just about everything was “dark”. I am just trying to bring old sense into new styles.
>http://animediet.net/conventions/otakon-2012-gen-urobuchi-interview
>>
>>122560563
>Spring: Ping Pong
This is probably bait but it's true. It looks like horse shit. People cry "muh artstyle" or how the story is what matters but aesthetic is important in a visual medium, if it looks like shit it's likely shit at it's core.
>>
>>122560563
>Best: Mikakunin
>Worst: Space Dandy

That's some shit taste right there. Mikakunin is one of Dogakobo's worse shows.
>>
>>122560618
Fuck you, tainted by the influence of disgusting western culture=SHIT.
>>
Watch this thread get 404'd because mods hate when we discuss anime as a whole.
>>
>>122560674
>most anime is drawn like shit or poorly animated
All anime confirmed for shit.
>>
>>122560674
>>122560563
Couldn't expect more from plebs, /a/ truly is the pleb heaven now.
>>
>>122560193
Even more then rabid fans of either camps I dislike people like you who feign ignorance more.
>>
>>122560239
What a worthless post.
Where shows like Galaxy Express 999, Yamato, and Gundam 0079 cute and family friendly?
Because those are of the most culturally important shows Japan has produced for their country.
>>
>>122560674

Ping Pong's abortion of a visual style does, indeed, make it automatically shit despite any of its other possible good points. The number one rule of art is to not show contempt for your audience, and Ping Pong's art style shows contempt for its audience.

>but it's an adaptation of the manga's style

Choosing to adapt the manga's abortion of a visual style shows contempt for the anime's audience.
>>
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>>122560644
What a surprise, all these bad writers have no idea what they're talking about.
>>
>>122560700
contain thy weebness
>>
>>122560711
*when we get asspained over anybody saying something that disagrees with the /a/ hivemind
>>
>>122560797
now now, you're the one who's rabid
>>
>>122556656
Not a fan of moeshit but SD was crap and so is his opinion.
>>
>>122556656
>Mar 23, 2014

keep crying
>>
>>122560806
>this butthurt
>>
>>122560798
>Galaxy Express 999, Yamato, and Gundam 0079 cute and family friendly
Yes, they were.
>>
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>>122560563
>>122560674
>>122560806
So much cancer, it's like you people don't even know what's the point of the medium.
>>
>>122560812
>ZZ, DBZ and Maison Ikoku in one season
Damn
>>
>>122560806
but things that may not look visually appealing can still be good.
>>
>>122556752
Back to reddit casualfag.
>>
>>122560906
To sell a product.

So Space Dandy failed at the medium.
>>
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>>122560904
Ok.
>>
>>122556656
love MOE
watch my reviw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc13HLw4z4E
>>
>>122560906

One could obviously say that at its simplest, the point of anime is entertainment, but if one goes just a little deeper than that, it's about making the viewer feel things.

Ping Pong's visual style made me feel like throwing up for 24 minutes per episode.
>>
>>122559365
>That's why space dandy was so popular in japan
Most of its fans are kids who watch power ranger
>>
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>/a/ thinking they know better than a guy who works in the industry himself

Stay buttdevastated.
>>
>>122560980
>implying moeshitters aren't the BBT fans of anime
>>
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>>122560994
>>122561020
Pathetic. Just, pathetic.
>>
>>122560968

Enjoy you're fat, ugly waifu.
>>
>>122560812
>Sooper Mario bros
>>
>>122560904
>so new it hurts
>>
>>122560812
>summer
>1 show
Golden age I see
>>
>>122561113
>47 episodes
Geez I wonder why.
>>
i sure iahaz '- fagglots
>>
>>122559680
Holy shit now that I think of it even NGE had a dig at moe in episode 26 with rei running with toast in her mouth,hah well thanks anon you've made me REALLY FUCKING DEPRESSED THAT THIS WONT GO AWAY.
>>
>>122561059
The entire point of anime is to sell a product, LN adaptations are big 25 minute commercials, kids shows are 25 minute commercials for toys, etc.

Are you so retarded as to think people fund tens of thousands of dollars for anything else?
>>
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>>122556656
>head away from the "flat-chested"
>>
>>122561039
But it does, you notice he's not saying that moe isn't popular or what people want. Just not what he personally wants to make, I love how people always try to spin this into something it's not. He knows his place unlike the writer of space dandy.
>>
>>122560906
If you get appeal by looking at your pic related, turn off your computer kid
>>
>>122560563
>Snorefest ga Usagi Desu ka
>Good
I like the characters, but the pacing is kinda shit like Black Bullet
>>
>>122560994

This. Gochuumon wa Usagi Desu ka? was objectively a more successful work of art than Ping Pong.
>>
>>122561039
The studio owner looks really sad
>>
>>122561039

relevant.
>>
>>122559680
I was just about to post this. People LOVE cute as means of escapism from the harsh reality of the world.
Moe is dying just as much as pictures of cute puppies and kittens are
>>
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>Away from "flat-chested" and toward "big boobs."
>>
>implying that /a/ aren't the most casual anime watchers
They don't like anything older than the late 90s, and they only like what's popular and use that as their sole guage of quality.
>>
>>122561278
>>
>70's
>golden age of anime

Yeah because those few shows that everybody remembers represent the whole decade.
>>
>>122561182
>>
Moe dying is as likely to happen as the year of the Linux desktop.
>>
>>122561309
That isn't /a/, that comes from the vocal normalfag groups that only know what exists on netflix
>>
>>122561386
Linux desktop? Where? When?
>>
>>122561309
>everyone on /a/ has the same mindset
Please anon. Besides even the biggest casual can see Dirty Pair is a master piece.
>>
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Post YFW cowtits.
>>
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>>122560980
Kill yourself, anime-ruiner
>>
>>122561278
>not liking flat chest
>>
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>>122561362
>>
>>122561039
Japanese tastes are so shitty it's not even funny
>>
I like a good mix between "moe" and not. My brain feels fried if I watch only SoLs so I like to balance it out with shows from other genres.

It's clear that the industry knows where the money is at (moe), but as long as they still make other shit I don't see it as a major problem yet.
>>
>>122561390
>That isn't /a/
He's kinda right though. Watching the most popular seasonal show and disregarding everything else is a very /a/ thing to do. I think that's why alot of people love this place.
>>
Why does it have to be one or the other? They can both be good they can both be bad. This is retarded
>>
>>122561039
What people buy shouldn't matter to that guy because he would still be stuck in a third rate studio that does nothing but inbetween and 2nd key animation.
>>
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Moeshit that is just for the sake of being cute without any other actual depth to it is garbage and I don't see how anyone could defend trash like that. Shows with cute girls that have good characterization, intelligent themes, etc are another history. Please try to make this distinction more often, /a/.
>>
>>122561390
Normal > Autistic
Deal with it
>>
>>122561547

>not watching at least 10 shows per season (I'll let you off the hook for this season, though, as this is the worst season I can ever remember)

Fucking casuals.
>>
>>122561547
>disregarding everything else
Are you kidding plenty of people watch tons of shows.

Dependent on the season I would say the average fag watches 6-10 shows.
>>
>>122561661

Kukuru a cute and a miracle of the universe. Those fucking outfits and hairstyles of hers give me such goddamn heartboners.
>>
>>122560644
Urobutcher is a chuuni who wrote a fanfiction of Equilibrium and his writing style has not progressed since then. Taking advice on cultural trends from him is like taking advice from someone on Deviantart.
>>
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>>122561661
I hope you're not implying that Joshiraku is one of those shows.
>>
The "Whale" business model probably explains why hackneyed moeshit keeps getting made despite it's decline over recent years.
>inb4 "moeshit"
Moe is lazy cookie cutter model for making characters.
>inb4 South Sark
I use it because everyone probably has seen the EP but it's core idea has been around for centuries.
I used to tend bar at a busy high end club and 60%-75% of my tips for the night always came from less than -5 people out of the 50+ people I served that night.
>>
Most shows aren't even very moe centric anyway. People will always say nonsense about moe. Not much has changed the past few decades.
>>
>>122561720
It should've been plural in my first post, showSSS.

But yeah, that's still what /a/ is for: talking about stuff that's currently airing. Most people here also got into anime only a few years ago and have zero interest in ever going back (especially not 30~ years like the OP was talking about) when there's a crapton of new stuff coming out all the time.
>>
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>'the moe trend is over'
>never actually said this
>>
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>>122561797
'I don't see any passion in today's anime industry' says OreImo director

>Q: Any techniques you used back in the 90s that you feel is kind of a lost art nowadays?

>Definitely cel shading in regards to techniques. Back in the 90s what he kind of misses nowadays is the passion level of people working on key animation. ‘I LOVE DRAWING’ used to resonate every moment of the day. He doesn’t see that passion anymore and people are more quiet and reserved; the level of energy isn’t the same anymore. He hopes he can see a resurgence of that.

http://nekoshiritori.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/interview-with-hiroyuki-kanbe/
>>
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>>122556656
Reads like marketing, like he's trying to coattail dandy on KlK, and appeal to the anti-moe /v/tard demographic.

I like the way he worked in a reference to SnK as well.
>>
>>122561788
>moeshit keeps getting made despite it's decline over recent years.
This is where you are wrong.
>>
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>>122561777

Pleb detected.
>>
>>122561788
>decline
What kind of normal fag are you, anime has only got better
>I used to tend bar at a busy high end club
Oh.
>>
>>122561661

I sure hope there's nobody here who thinks that "moeshit" like Aria or Non Non Biyori is the same thing as "moeshit" like A-Channel or, for a truly terrible recent example, Girlfriend (Kari).
>>
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>>122561899
'There was a time when people were under the impression that anime is a culture that can gain respect worldwide'

> "The bubble has burst" in Japan for the anime industry, Yamamoto said.He said the reluctance of the anime industry to change its business practices has driven down wages, drained the creative spirit and consequently turned off many fans.

>"It is becoming the norm to order some of our work to anime productions in China and South Korea. Not because we want to suppress our personnel costs, but rather because we are unable to find enough people to work (in Japan)," Yamamoto, 36, said.

>"There was a time when people were under the impression that anime makes money, and that anime is a culture that can gain respect worldwide," Yamamoto said. "But at the same time, the priority has been on quantity."

>Working conditions have remained dire, and the industry has been hit by a chronic shortage of creators.The recession exacerbated the animators' woes as sponsorships have shriveled since around 2007. With television broadcasters cutting their budgets, the anime industry has tried to make up for lost sales through DVD productions. But even that strategy has been undermined by illegal broadcasts on the Internet.

>Another concern for the industry is a possible shrinking fan base. Estimates put the population of die-hard anime fans at around 150,000. But Yamamoto suspects the number now falls short of 100,000. Part of the reason, Yamamoto said, is that producers, including himself, devoted too much of their energies in creating cutesy "moe" (budding)-type characters in hopes of making sure-sell products in an already small market.

>"Although the otaku (geek) market is said to be a robust one, even the otaku are not immune to Japan's economic doldrums," Yamamoto said.
>>
>>122561899
>cel shading was widespread in the 90s but is now a lost art
The fuck?
>>
>>122561541
It is just butthurt baka gaijins being upset their western pandering shows like space blandy or diarrhea parade aren't selling. Look at idol and mecha shows like unicorn and LL selling like hotcakes. Then you have pornogatari and its lnshit ilk like sao. Then you have the usual 10k SoL seller like gochiusa. There are plenty of variety for everyone. Maybe the westerner should actually talk with their wallet instead of crying in a Taiwanese cartoons image board.
>>
>>122561547
It's not that people haven't seen the old shows, it's that there's nothing to discuss anymore. Any thread someone makes about an old show is going to be
>What does /a/ think of X
>Why don't they make anime like X anymore
>I just watched X and here's what I think
All of which will just cover the same old tired opinions people talked about when the show came out. When a show is coming out there's at least speculation to be had, it gives threads more life than just discussing the same old show again. Unless you just want a "this show is so good" circlejerk.
>>
>>122561996
>the westerner
Don't confuse /a/ and /v/
>>
>>122561899
It's probably because of the huge number of anime projects now compared to the 90s. Plus, it's more a profession than big hobbyist projects these days.
>>
>>122561990
Video Games must avoid Anime's mistakes, CyberConnect2 CEO states

>As the conversation turned to anime and manga, Matsuyama revealed that he reads "60 books a month," mentioning Jump and Shingeki no Kyojin, and the quality of Kodansha's publications. When asked about anime's declining popularity in the US, Matsuyama replied:

>"Yeah. That's because it's not as mainstream as it used to be. They're making it for a particular audience. I think that's why. I watch a lot of anime but it's for the techniques, not as entertainment. As a product, I think it's going downhill. The general audience won't find those interesting. It's impossible to figure out what the target audience is for Mawaru Penguindrum. Same goes for Madoka Magica. It's for a very core audience like us, who enjoy them. The video game industry has to make sure they don't make the same mistake."
>>
>>122561113
>Dissing Machine Robo
Bastards like you don't deserve to know his name
>>
>>122561489
>Not liking both
Variety is the spice of life
>>
>>122562011

>Any thread someone makes about an old show is going to be

You missed the vast majority of the content of these threads, which is usually discussion about what girl is best, what girl is shit, and sexualizing all of the girls. Mostly the last one.

>>>/a/
>>
>>122562071
I remember that retard dissing Penguindrum and Madoka. So he is basically saying anime should be dumbed down for the masses. Fuck that.
>>
>>122561937

It is over. You may see threads about those kinds of shows of I honestly it's just the same handful of autists spamming them over and over.
>>
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>Sato also joked that they also wanted to head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs"

That's literally all fucking moe is.
>>
>>122562152
Well I don't mind him trashing Madoka, but Penguindrum is actually very good. I don't appreciate him insulting that one.
>>
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>>122561990
The golden age is over.

>AUDIENCE: Some people say that the late '70s and early 1980s were sort of a golden age of Japanese animation. And some people say that that golden age is over. What do you think?

>[OKADA]: That period, that golden age you're talking about, is when there were variations--a golden age of variations. And then, for expression of other elements, it's the 1980s. For U.S. science-fiction, the 1950s were the golden age of expression, and setting the stage for that were the 1930s. In the same terms, in anime, the time for time for setting up the variations were the 1970s, and the golden age of expressions and new ideas were the 1980s.

>[HIROAKI INOUE]: First of all, the VHS tape being introduced into households. Before this there were only two ways to watch anime: on TV or in the cinema. But as VHS was introduced and the price of it was lowering, we were able to create animation works for video. Right after VHS, the Laserdisc came out, and fans supporting that helped the OVA to gain its position in the 80s and 90s. There is one other reason: young creators had more ambition to jump over their predecessors. Because the OVA was a new format, it blew up the image [of animation] manufacturers held and they were able to accept that market. Unfortunately, recent creators don’t have the sort of spirit that they had back during the rise of the OVA, so the movement is dying out. And of course, the manufacturers are being more conservative. They’re more reluctant to accept new challenges.
>>
I think it's interesting that /a/, so-called enthusiasts, will claim the exact opposite of what he's saying.

I don't know who's right, but it is curious how the majority of us seem to be against any shift in the current direction of anime.
>>
>>122562122
Fuck off, indecisive faggots like you are the worst.
>>
>>122562071
What's with this self-serving view that anime not geared towards you is bad? Do people honestly think companies focused on making shitty moe cashgrabs are going to somehow make masterpieces once they break the shackles of needing cute girls? Do people honestly think companies that make good moe have a million DEEP DARK ideas about people getting murdered and laughing about it but can't make them because of moe?
>>
>>122562152
How do you read that as an insult? He's saying those shows DON'T have wide appeal, despite going deeper than your average moeshit.
>>
>>122562216

I want more moe and less shonenshit, because shonenshit is for 10 year olds and gays who like to look at dudes.
>>
>>122562216
>the majority of us seem to be against any shift in the current direction of anime
We're against marketing masquerading as analysis, and the childish "anti-moe" audience that enables it.
>>
Those people in those interviews aren't giving otaku enough credit because they have singlehandedly kept the business afloat. Also, the reason anime doesn't have wider appeal in sales is because discs are priced for enthusiasts only. They should sell them much cheaper to appeal to more people. But they don't own up to it and blame the enthusiasts. Fucking snake tongued.
>>
>>122562313
This is true. I think a lot of these moe shows could have wider appeal if they'd actually fucking try getting more people to like them. There's no reason for the common person to not like Yuru Yuri, or what have you.
>>
>>122562216
It's not even an attempt at a shift. It's an attempt at "breaking down". Their view is that there are too many shows they don't like being made, which is a really negative point rather than saying "I wish they would give such-and-such a shot". They're embarrassed by the concept of moe because they want anime to be the cool hip hobby that fits with the masses, and the masses don't like it. I understand why producers want this because it makes them money, but general people who want it tend to just be chuunis.
>>
>>122562122
Well I sure don't like cowtits.
>>
>>122556656
Some of what he says is actually intereasting and really on-point.

There's been a big trend with recent anime in looking back on older styles of anime and reincorporating them into modern shows. Not necessarily direct imitation, but also not parody, either. More of a genre-pastiche of the tropes and themes and aesthetic that was iconic to various genres in the past.

I mean you can see this in even minor low-budget shows like twintails, an affectionate homage to older super sentai with its own satirical harem elements mixed in, or even something bigger like Cross Ange, a shameless loveletter to exploitative bishoujo mecha of the 70's and 80's.

It's not necessarily to say that moe is dying, but rather that a new trend has emerged in the way anime is made, just as moe itself is a trend; this trend of looking back and incorporating successful older elements of genre and culture into newer works, adapting ideas and making old new again in a way that's affectionate and respectful of that older style.

I mean, like it or love it, the core of space dandy was essentially just a pig mosaic of 20th century pop scifi slapped together into an episodic picaresque, drawing inspiration from both older anime cliche's (the racing episode) and just the genre in general.
>>
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>>122562208
“There isn’t much diversity now,” Anno lamented.

“Today's anime fans and creators are exclusively into anime. In the past, there were people in the industry who wanted to do other things"

>1985 was curiously the same year Yoshiyuki Tomino’s Mobile Suit Z Gundam aired, a series which Hikawa referred to as one where “Tomino was forced to do Gundam again.” The year was in many ways the end and a new beginning for Japanese animation; the end of innocence for an emerging industry.

> “There isn’t much diversity now,” Anno lamented. “Today's anime fans and creators are exclusively into anime. In the past, there were people in the industry who wanted to do other things, couldn’t get any other work except in anime, which was good."

>“Our generation was when anime fans started coming in," he continued. "But even then, we liked other things too, like tokusatsu.”

>Despite his feelings, Anno hoped panels such as these could inspire future generations of animators.

>“It would be hard to make animation like the shows we say today," he said. "I don’t mean to be nostalgic, but I hope what we saw today somehow leads to the future.”

http://otakuusamagazine.com/Anime/News1/Hideaki-Anno-Talks-Showa-Anime-Openings-6052.aspx
>>
>>122562313
>They should sell them much cheaper to appeal to more people
Not this shit again, there is no demand for that so lowering priced only lower the profit.
>>
>>122562313

Japan doesn't do nearly enough to make money off anime overseas. The anime companies should be offering professionally subbed, ad-supported live streams of their new episodes, aired online simultaneously with the television airings. IP-based filtering could disallow Japanese viewers to keep the TV stations happy.
>>
Space what now? Oh, wait, that really shitty anime with the WORST ratings? Right, I bet he knows exactly what he's talking about.
>>
so industry should switch from flat-chested tsundere characters to "flat-chested" deredere characters?
>>
>>122562465
>moe itself is a trend
Would it really count as one? it's been a thing for 20+ years.
>>
>>122562459
Flat with a big ass is best.
>>
>Moeshit vs shonenshit
>Not realizing both are stagnant as all hell and the market needs to shift away from both or rot.
>>
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>>122556656
>mfw moe will never die
>>
>>122562534
No that's disgusting
>>
>>122562383
Culture of cute is not ingrained in the west. Most normal people would think it is girly and for sissy. K-on was successful because every demographic from kid to adult love it in Japan.
>>
>>122562459
Depends. There's an upper limit where cowtits just get stupid looking, but I've never found "too flat" to be a problem
>>
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>>122562469
'Otakus takes away the power of anime' says Miyazaki Hayao

>Q: You’ve said that too many young animators are otaku (obsessed fans) who have little real-life experience. All they know is the world of anime.

>A: That trend still exists and it takes away from the power of Japanese animation and manga. It was inevitable, though. I managed to work for 51 years with just paper, pencils and film. My wife told me the other day that I should be thankful for that.’You’re a lucky man,’ she said. My son’s generation and the one coming up after can’t work with just paper and pencils any more so I can’t tell you how that’s going to turn out. I managed to avoid using a computer. I don’t even have a cellphone. I feel lucky I managed to live like that. (laughs)

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/hayao-miyazaki-governors-award-recipient-says-i-intend-to-work-until-the-day-i-die-1201347826/
>>
>>122562580
Meatfag detected
>>
>>122562541
>I only watch deep and mature anime
>I am actually a fujoshi and shoujo is fine to me
>I am a board crosser
>I watched anime since 1970 and still want anime to come back into that day
Fuck off
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>>122562648
"The anime industry is starting to break down" says Hideaki Anno

>“It is not that I necessarily wanted to change the flow of anime, but to really sustain the anime environment, to stop it breaking down, and there is still a lot of work to do. (The industry) is starting to break down somewhat, with a lower number of people working in anime and less money, and we need to prevent the anime world shrinking. The varieties of expression have become narrower, less diverse, closed up in a world called ‘Japanese anime’ and I want to break through that and keep on expanding.”

http://www.mangauk.com/post.php?p=hideaki-anno-interview
>>
>>122562541
They don't need to shift away form these style. Both just need a revival, a serie so good that all the bad series of the genre will be forgotten.
>>
>>122562456
There's clearly more validity to what's they're saying than just "them" not liking it. Anime was more popular than it is now, so when less people like something what does that tell you? I think it's reasonable to say that a lot of this stuff might actually be low-grade shit after all. Is it? I don't know, but it shouldn't be left out of the conversation.
>>
>>122562071
I'm pretty sure anime is gaining popularity in the West.
>>
>>122562541

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan#Lifestyle

>However, many studies on happiness and satisfaction with life tend to find that Japanese people average relatively low levels of life satisfaction and happiness when compared with most of the highly developed world; the levels have remained consistent if not declining slightly over the last half century.

As long as this remains the case, "moeshit" will remain a thing. "Moeshit" is just a symptom of the cause explained above. Give people shitty lives and they're gonna want to watch cute kittens playing and cute girls doing cute things.
>>
>>122562673
No you fag. I like flat and tender.
>>
Provide oppai samples please
>>
>>122562716

>Both just need a revival, a serie so good that all the bad series of the genre will be forgotten.

Non Non Biyori was pretty recent...
>>
>>122562529
And homaging past works has always been a thing. It's been a trend because in recent years, the past decade or so, it exploded and become a dominant heme across almost every genre. The whole idea of having several ":cute girls doing cute things" shows every season, some of which are high budget bestsellers, is something pretty unique to the late 2000's and current decade.

It's not that moe didn't exist prior, but it's been a dominant trend recently. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we are certainly seeing the emergence of a new trend as well.

What's always interesting about these things is that the emergence of a new trend doesn't necessarily mean that the old trend disappears. Almost every show nowadays has moe elements in it, and that's also not a bad thing. The industry is learning how to incorporate the positive attributes and appeal of moe into a wider variety of genre and style. This newer trend of nostalgia and homage is almost as thought the industry is relearning how to make plot, setting, narrative and, most importantly, animation-driven projects that reconcile with and incorporate the elements of moe that made it such a driving force in the industry. You're seeing more and more shows where moe and plot, or slice of life and action aren't in competition with one another, but rather work together to create something that works as a whole. I think Yuuki Yuuna is a good recent example of this, but it's certainly not the only one.
>>
>>122561309
I watched the original cutey honey from 72 just a week ago,its the attentionwhore nomalfags who don't dare to watch anything old.
>>
>>122562745
It's not nearly as popular as it was during the time of Pokemon.

You have a few select shows that appeal to western audiences, but anime in general is not popular.
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>>122562711
'Anime is over saturated' says Yutaka Yamamoto

>#Yamakan thinks the current situation in the industry is imperfect. Many might say anime is rising but it's not improving financially.

>basically anime is over saturated now.

>#Yamakan thinks that anime is still kind of locked in the otaku world, but there are more otaku than before.

>Problem is that there are only extreme winner and loser titles in anime. Winners are praised to the skies and losers are trashed.

http://animediet.net/conventions/yutaka-yamamoto-yamakan-press-conference-tweet-digest
>>
>"cute is cancer"
>t. feminist
>>
>>122561309
This is a farce. Just because you don't see threads on it doesn't mean we're not watching. Obviously the threads you do see will be reserved for current anime & manga.
>>
>>122560618
I loved every episode of Space Dandy.
>>
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>>122562856
'The anime industry is definitely spiraling downward' says OreImo director at FanimeCon 2014

>Q: As someone who’s sort of seen both sides of the process as an animator and director, what’s your opinion of the current state of the anime industry, particularly in regards to the bad working conditions for animators? How can things improve?
>A: I’d say the the anime industry is definitely spiraling downward, and as a genre Japanese animation might disappear. Of course, there’s still directors and senior staff who put in the best effort and quality into making a good anime, but the number of talented animators is dwindling, as less people want to become animators. I desperately want to change this mentality. It seems like more young people want to become idols and voice actors these days. I’ll do whatever I can to change it though.

>Q: What would you say is your biggest disappointment with the anime industry right now?
>A: I’m definitely disappointed with how the overall skill level of key animators is declining.

>Q: Do you think the international demand and interest for anime could inspire more animators to meet that demand?
>A: Just because there’s more fans of anime these days doesn’t necessarily correlate to a better anime industry, with more people willing to pursue a career in animation.

https://animeisdead.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/fanimecon-2014-hiroyuki-kanbe-qa-panel/
>>
>>122562071
>The general audience won't find those interesting. It's impossible to figure out what the target audience is for Mawaru Penguindrum. Same goes for Madoka Magica. It's for a very core audience like us, who enjoy them. The video game industry has to make sure they don't make the same mistake."
How is this a bad thing?

The video game industry caters to normalfags, feminists, and generally people who don't actually like video games.

The anime industry caters to people who love anime.
>>
>>122562248
how does that make you indecisive at all
>>
>>122562730
I know it used to sell more, that's why I said I see why producers want a change. They want more money. But there's literally no reason for the viewer to want less of the competition unless they're just disgusted by something existing.
Also if they want to open up the audience maybe they should try lowering the cost of merchandise to a wider-audience level.
>>
>>122562856
I don't get it, are you saying it's not true?

Many people making the same product = over saturation in any market.
>>
>>122562920
>The video game industry caters to normalfags, feminists, and generally people who don't actually like video games.

The western video game market, sure, but that has it's own decline.
>>
>>122562730
>I think it's reasonable to say that a lot of this stuff might actually be low-grade shit after all. Is it?
Popularity is no indication of quality. In fact in most cases things that are popular with a general audience are utter mediocrity that needs to please everyone.
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>>122562916
"Moe sells, If a show somehow gets branded as being not moe? Good luck making your money back.' says Madhouse president

>Fuuta pinpoints Evangelion as the catalyst for what eventually became the modern industry business model of creating shows that exist as advertisements for their home video release. Eva didn’t just change the perception of anime in the public consciousness, it also sold 1.5 million copies on laserdisc alone, opened the floodgates on shows geared towards otaku, and was instrumental in creating a concept Fuuta refers to as “My Anime”: niche shows with early-morning TV timeslots that shoot to make their money back on home video sales.

>Hiro has to ask: what is moe, exactly? Fuuta answers “there’s no set definition or even accepted premises for what moe is, but that vagueness allows fans to find their own personal definition of moe and go with it.”

>Hiro points out this trend towards a otaku-only subject matter that the fans themselves can’t even define makes anime in general harder to approach and get into, Fuuta points to the industry catch-22: it sells. And if a show somehow gets branded as being not moe? Good luck making your money back.
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>>122562916
>>A: I’m definitely disappointed with how the overall skill level of key animators is declining.
This kind of stuff is about the overall demand in the industry. Honestly, the most important thing for anime is the success of Abenomics.
>>
>>122562856
I'm so glad Yamakan saved anime as an art form.
>>
>NNB S2
>Kinmoza S2
>Gochiusa S2
>YuYu S3

I'm going with no on this one. Also [citation needed].
>>
>>122562966

Yeah, honestly, we don't have it as bad as /v/, man. Brown'n'bloom shooters consisting of proceed down cooridoor, take cover, shoot, take cover, repeat, are far more ubiquitous than any anime trope these days.
>>
>>122562920
>The video game industry caters to normalfags, feminists, and generally people who don't actually like video games.
You can only list a handful of prominent examples that actually fall into those groups.

People act like Nintendo and other Japanese companies don't even exist. Whether they sell as much is irrelevant, as the West's trends do not dictate the video game market.
>>
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>>122563036

>NNB S2
>Kinmoza S2
>Gochiusa S2
>>
>>122556656

This Dai Sato guy sounds like he's all talk; just like all them other "big names." Once he runs out of money, he'll find a way to cater to the slobbering, big-wallet otaku base once again.

Fuck him AND his ilk. Unless the animu industry stops featuring shounens and shounen leads as SHITS that shouldn't exist, then I won't see any REAL changes any time soon.
>>
>>122562966
Because it tries to appeal to people who don't like video games in order to maximise profits.

These retards want the same for anime.
>>
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>>122563020
'We're in the New Golden Age', says Bahi JD, key animator on Space Dandy and Ping Pong

>"2014-2015 we have lot of interesting anime projects. The generation has slowly started, finally!"
>"Right now anime industry could be in that position where it was in the 80s.Lot of new artists rising up that could define a whole generation"
>>
>>122563060
Western games are more popular than Japanese games nowadays though.
>>
>>122562071
>says Madoka has no real target audience
So does this person have no grasp on reality or what?
>>
>>122563060
The West completely dominates the video game market. Japan is only big when it comes to handheld/mobile games.
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>>122563095
>>122563095
You posted the wrong yuyushiki picture.
>>
>>122563215
But no game came close to monhun and dark souls in recent time.
>>
>>122563198
Now here's a guy that knows what he's talking about.

The end of 2014 and the beginning of 2015 have been some of the best seasons in years. We've got a huge variety shows, both broad and niche, some of which are completely unique and off-the-wall, trying things that haven't been tried in decades and with a tonne of solid shows overall. We're seeing elements of moe incorporated into shows without dominating them, laving room for plenty of cute things while still having plot and more interesting styles of animation and directing.

We've been getting both quality and diversity and the trend only looks like it's going to continue.
>>
>>122563334
In terms of sales? You're wrong.
>>
>>122563334
Monster Hunter is repetitive garbage. Dark Souls is a third person perspective action game about beating monsters up which Japan has done millions of. I haven't seen real innovation in Japan in years.
>>
>>122563215
>>122563263
Not ever Western game (or popular game for that matter) panders to those subgroups.

Mortal Kombat X and Hotline Miami 2 come to mind.
>>
>>122563198
See I figured it was a generational thing. In the 80s you had a lot of big names making their debuts and forming new companies, and I was wondering when we'd get another surge of fresh blood in the industry like that.
>>
I'd just like to remind everyone he wrote the Undies vs Vests episode.
>>
>>122561039
The studio owner should be happy his animator enjoys working those hours for that pay.
>>
>>122562799
NNB wasn't that good.
>>
>>122561039
Poor Shinbo.
>>
>>122563233
Madoka is an extreme example of a show that had a very niche target audience but became a mainstream success due to internet buzz.
Other shows that catered to the same audience (Yuuki Yuuna, Wixoss, Genei wo Kakeru Taiyo) not nearly sold as much as Madoka.
>>
>>122563447
Those are both fairly niche, when looking at large scale sale patterns.
>>
>>122563480
The only good part of that was Dandy surfing at the end. I'd bet anything he didn't write that part.
>>
>Liking generic shounen
>Liking generic moe
>Not watching the best from both
>>
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>>122563437
Because Western games are innovative right?

Kek.
>>
>>122562856
Well the Japanese population is declining and they're currently in an economic recession. That might explain why anime isn't growing.
>>
>>122560239
Gundam and Macross aren't super robot shows, what the fuck.
>>
>>122563437
Doesn't this parallel to the anime discussion though?

People want "innovation" in the anime industry but the core audience is satisfied, so they get more of what they want. People want "innovation" in the gaming industry but the core is satisfied so Japan gives them more of what they want.

What's the issue? I love Japanese games because they're not trying to be movies and all this other bullshit. Metal Gear Solid aside, which I still enjoy.
>>
>>122563312

No, I'm happy about those shows getting S2s...

>>122563516

I respect your opinion, but I felt it was an SoL series rivaled in execution only by the absolute finest examples of the genre such as ARIA and Azumanga Daioh.
>>
>>122563582
Not in general but in particular.
>>
>>122562966
Japanese games are dying too.
>nobody buys consoles
>nobody plays on PC
>mobile is gradually eating away at handhelds
Shit's dead the moment they figure out how to make an acceptable new MonHun or mainline DQ for phones.
>>
>>122556656
Link to the article?
>>
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>>122563198
Masaaki Yuasa talks about today industry

>Until a few years ago, I was able to freely create works thanks to producers who trusted me or studios who had a strong foundation, but now we’re in a state where pitches won’t be accepted just thanks to the strong backing of a producer. These days, a proposal won’t make it unless it also makes sponsors feel safe.

>While I’ve personally had confidence in every title I’ve made up to now, I’m a director who makes titles that haven’t brought large profits to sponsors, so they don’t have confidence in me. I think that if I’m able to regain their faith by producing results (profits) with projects that they feel safe about, then I’ll someday be able to once again create the kinds of titles that I’d personally like to make.
>>
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>>122563626
It's 2015, so yuyushiki is on S3.

Everything is fine.
>>
>>122563397
Sorry but from now 2015 is complete garbage. Spring can't come soon enough.
>>
Founding Fathers Quotes
>>
>>122563537
>very niche target audience
You don't know what you;re talking about, do you.
During production and the leadup to its airing, it was marketed as a traditional mahou shoujo aimed at the standard audience for the genre. The 'darker' elements were intentionally hidden during the ad campaign and only really came to light during the 3rd episode twist.

Madoka was marketed entirely on its pedigree (shinbo/kajiura/urobuchi) and its actual content was concealed from the public and misrepresented in order to spark controversy, which it succeeded at immensely.

It never had a niche target audience.
>>
>>122563642
So they aren't any different from Japanese games in that respect then.

They are still worse for pandering to the feminist/SJW's though.
>>
>>122563608
>I love Japanese games because they're not trying to be movies
I don't see western games being movies in general - the complete opposite actually, given how many open world sandbox titles there are. Not every western game is Call of Duty.
>>
>>122563733
>shinbo/kajiura/urobuchi
you think the mainstream care about those name?
>>
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>>122563701

2015 in binary is 11111011111.
>>
>>122563771
Not trying to prove anything, but the order was a game that was literally more cutscene than game. (3 hours of cutscenes, 1:30 gameplay, 30 min are QTEs).
>>
>>122563537
>>Madoka is an extreme example of a show that had a very niche target audience
Yeah no. It's the second highest selling anime in the last 15 years. That's not a niche show gaining some tread, that's real staying power. The movies also sell very well, so it's not just a fad either. Madoka has a wider appeal than you or that hack are willing to acknowledge.

This is the problem with these big name directors. They think their taste is law, and if they can't understand why people like a show they say it's niche and chalk up its success to a fad or something else that has nothing to do with its quality.
>>
>>122563765
>So they aren't any different from Japanese games in that respect then.
Do they innovate in terms of gameplay though? I don't see very much in that regard.

Japan might do something that is artistically nice to look at, but when it comes to gameplay they often resort to the same patterns. The west is more eager to experiment in that regard, and especially on the PC in terms of complexity far surpassing what Japan has to offer.
>>
>>122563857
Singular examples that aren't representative. Also, on consoles you can't really expect to find a lot of innovation anyway.
>>
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>>122562071
>The general audience won't find those interesting.
Fuck the general audience. I don't want my chinese cartoons made to cater to normalfags.
>>
>>122563888
It's really only smaller studios and indie developers that are innovating in the west though. AAA is still just first person military shooters and open world games, for the most part.
>>
>>122563888
Yes, Okami's gameplay is very different from the traditional ones for example.

Go play it already.
>>
Remember the 'kawaii fad'?
>>
>>122563733
>It never had a niche target audience.
Yes it did. Madoka is merely a continuation of a sub-genre of a sub-genre, namely otaku-oriented magical-girls such as Nanoha or Mai-Hime (the former being directed by none other than Shinbou). It was NEVER marketed as a traditional magical-girl, it was scheduled to be broadcasted as a late-night anime.

Also noone knew who the fuck Urobuchi was besides the VN fandom.
>>
>>122564010
The issue is: this indie sector is quite large in the west.
>>
>>122564056
I've watched a let's play and it didn't seem that unique to me - visuals aside.
>>
>>122564076
>It was NEVER marketed as a traditional magical-girl
How to spot someone that's been on /a/ for fewer than 4 years.
>>
>>122563888
In the unique gameplay frontier I present to you Sting's games, which puts most western things to shame.
>>
>>122563733
Only otaku would recognize names attached to a project and build any expectation from it. Just like how only movie buffs would bother looking up the cast and crew for a new film to get an idea of what to expect. Half the time when I gush about a director's new movie to my family they just go "Oh I think I recognize that name, he did ____ right?"

Even if they know the name it's not anything special to them.

For the general audience, they base their expectations off of trailers and reviews, which are all about content.
>>
>>122562833
Except now they're trying to change the anime itself unlike when pokemon era.
Holy shit, why western always try making media like they want.
>>
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>>122563849
>>
>>122564079
True. The point in trying to make here though is that the majority of the cash and sales in western games development is still going toward fairly generic games.
>>
>>122563879
>Yeah no. It's the second highest selling anime in the last 15 years.
The sale doesn't prove anything, it's just otaku bought it, not to mention Bakemonogatari sales number is very close to Madoka.

have you check Ghibli anime sale figures or Evangelion rebuild? that's what mainstream.

You go on the street in Japan, and ask them One Peace, SnK, Evangelion or Gundam, they know it, but Madoka is a fade like Haruhi.

It's very famous title in anime fandom but not mainstream.
>>
>>122564132
It is inspired from a few other games/genres, but that doesn't mean it isn't unique. You need to play it yourself to know for sure.
>>
>>122564181
Of course.

I don't see Japan being that different though. They might be more interesting to look at, but gameplay wise they've been resorting to similar patterns.

>>122564252
What's so unique about it except for the painting thing? It just adds another means of input to achieve what has been done since the dawn of time: kill monsters. It is innovative, but it doesn't innovate the internal mechanics of gameplay so much.
>>
>trend
Once we let Haruhi slide it was made clear that this is just how anime is now. All the common tropes and writing just deep enough to be considered self-aware. Boom, one of the most popular shows of this generation.

Lucky Star and Azumanga Daioh at least had good writing. The minute we let a show get by on it's general concept while displaying the bare minimum of what can be considered passable writing, things were set in stone.

That doesn't mean the industry can't grow out of it. The same happened with mecha, harem, and other subgenres. We'll most likely see a change in the next decade or so. I just wouldn't call it a trend.
>>
>>122564188
You need luck for mainstream market.
They somehow luck into Gundam and Totoro back then and even if they try to create something like them right now, they won't get the same reception.
>>
>>122564153
The west is used to dominating media. American media has a global audience, especially Hollywood. So when foreign shit starts gaining appeal, they try to adapt it. See those popular Japanese horror movies from the 00s that Hollywood shamelessly ripped off: Ring, Grudge, etc. Or the European films based off those popular Norwegian novels, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. Hollywood just remakes it for Americans using their own actors and own directors to try and own that popularity, instead of just showing the originals here.

The west does it with TV shows too: The Office, Top Gear, etc. Anything that gets popular on another continent, expect an American studio to remake it for Americans.

Except they can't really do it with anime. Cause the west can't into animation for teenagers and young adults, who are the main consumers of anime among westerners. They can try to imitate the style, as Avatar shows, but they can't imitate the content.
>>
>>122564139
I'm still mad Blaze and Gloria didn't get localized.
>>
>>122564341
>what is innovative apart from the part that is innovative

Nigger... you just trying to move the goal post at this point. You never mentioned anything about the only way something could be innovative was if the gameplay was completely alien to anything else.
>>
>>122559463
This

and even in Toonami, it was a flash in the pan. The show had to be taken off the block due to sagging ratings along with Attack on Titan and other shows.
>>
>>122564142
>they base their expectations off of trailers
All of the trailers for madoka presented it as a traditional upbeat and lighthearted mahou shoujo.

Also I don't know who you talk to, but recognizing actors, actresses and directors is common a fuck in the west. Damn near every moralfag knows the names of at least a half dozen big directors.

I think we're reaching a problem with terminology. If we generalize every fan of anime as otaku, otaku ceases to be a niche demographic because you've just generalized the entire target audience of the medium. At that point, claiming something as pandering to otaku is as meaningless as saying a movie panders to people that watch movies.

Not everyone who frequently watches or enthuses anime is an otaku, but anyone who watches or enthuses anime will have some degree of familiarity with its trends, its major, and currently popular industry figures and so on. You don't have to be some trivia expert turbonerd NEET to recognize the name of a popular new figure that's trending in all the magazines thanks to all those popular and successful series they've recently done. It only takes a few successes for everybody who cares to be talking about you, and if you;re going to label 'everybody who cares' as 'otaku', then that's a pretty big fucking market you're pandering to.
>>
>>122564367

>Once we let Haruhi slide it was made clear that this is just how anime is now. All the common tropes and writing just deep enough to be considered self-aware. Boom, one of the most popular shows of this generation.
>now

Dude, you have to realize that the average IQ is 100. Have you ever gotten to know someone that you knew literally had an IQ of around 100? If so, I'm willing to bet you thought that person was a fucking idiot.

Shows which appeal to the lowest common denominator being popular is anything but "new."

Also, 10 out of fucking 10 for implying Haruhi is shit and Lucky Star is good.
>>
>>122564396
>the west can't into animation for teenagers and young adults

Do you think the talent and structure isn't there or simply that no one wants to do it? I mean, we have seen interest in Japanese IP in the west, but not much in the way of animation aimed at teens and young adults.
>>
>>122564188
>not to mention Bakemonogatari sales number is very close to Madoka.
Bakemonogatari is the best selling anime of the last 15 years, it outstrips Madoka.

>The sale doesn't prove anything
It proves that normalfag anime don't have a viable market compared to these "niche" shows with "no target audience".

It shows that you have no clue what you're talking about.
>>
>Space Dandy
>Good outside of the zombie and rock and roll episode
>>
>>122563879
Madoka sold on the misunderstanding that this show was somehow "subverting" the magical-girl genre, which is why so many normalfags who have very sparse memories of old magical-girls jumped in.
Those people didn't bother with other shows that tried to emulate Madoka, that's the very definition of a fad.

Meanwhile those "big names" you loathe about make shos that are still watched and discussed today (in the case of Dai Sato, GiTS SAC, Eureka Seven or Ergo Proxy for example)
>>
>>122564468
Innovation can be graded. There's a difference between allowing the user a different means of input to do what he has been doing since forever and actually changing the internal logic to allow him to do something entirely new.
>>
>>122564396
No, I mean they want to Japan makes anime like they want -- just look at news about loli not long ago. Glad nips is ignorant enough to not hear western's demand.
>>
>>122564592
>Those people didn't bother with other shows that tried to emulate Madoka
Yuuki Yuuna sold exceptionally well for what it was, Wixoss failed because it was mediocre tripe. That sounds more like the audience having standards and distinguishing between a quality imitator and a shitty one to me.
>>
>>122564534
>Damn near every moralfag knows the names of at least a half dozen big directors.
Do you go to college? Or perhaps live in an educated community? Because educated people tend to watch more film. The people around me see maybe 2 new films in a year. Mostly they just rewatch shows on netflix. My brother knows maybe 4 directors by name, but probably could not recognize any of their work by watching it, that's about the amount of recognition you can expect from a general audience.
>>
>>122564592

>Madoka sold on the misunderstanding that this show was somehow "subverting" the magical-girl genre

I don't know if it was so much this as much as simply... once people started calling it "important" that kind of took off as a meme and when it was airing it just seemed like it was THE important anime to be watching at that time... at least after episode three occurred.
>>
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>Anime has cute characters
>It's moe shit
>Anime has the protagonist beat a villain by fighting
>It's shounen shit
>Anime has dark themes
>It's edgy shit
>Anime has sad moments
>It's melodramatic shit
>Anime has a plot that can't be understood through face value
>It's pretentious shit
>>
>>122564396
>Cause the west can't into animation for teenagers and young adults, who are the main consumers of anime among westerners

It's not like the west doesn't have adult animation.

It's just that the stuff that would usually be adapted into an anime in Japan becomes a live action TV show or film in the US which is far more lucrative than late night anime and its dependence on BDs and merchandising, and as such has the money to attract bigger talent. Look at the wave of YA literature becoming movie series like Hunger Games. That shit is anime's bread and butter.
>>
>>122564640
It is still innovative regardless of how much you try to tiptoe around the point. You didn't mentioned anything about the internal mechanics of the games themselves in your original post. There was no way I could guess exactly what you were talking about.
>>
>>122564575
>It proves that normalfag anime don't have a viable market compared to these "niche" shows with "no target audience".
When half of a season's shows nowadays sell between 1k and 3k, I don't see it as a viable market either.
>>
>>122564729

>It's pretentious shit

This also applies to anything without moe character designs.
>>
>>122564730
>It's not like the west doesn't have adult animation.
All it has is sitcoms and Adult Swim flash garbage. That's the American animation market for adults.

>It's just that the stuff that would usually be adapted into an anime in Japan becomes a live action TV show or film in the US
Yeah no. Not even close.
>>
>>122564548
Nowhere did I say it was a new concept.

>10 out of fucking 10 for implying Haruhi is shit and Lucky Star is good.
Haruhi isn't shit, but it has significantly worse writing than something like Lucky Star. Haruhi replaced good writing with a barely passable storyline and it set the tone for anime after it.
>>
>>122564766

Obviously the business model involves expecting some failures along the way and hoping you create a Monogatari-like cash cow at some point to keep shit afloat during the failures.
>>
>>122564729
>It's pretentious shit
It is
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>>122556656
This entire thing is cancerous enough, but
>Sato also joked that they also wanted to head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs,"
>>
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>>122564729
And this is when you stop taking anything /a/ says at face value.
>>
>>122564841

>Lucky Shit
>let's base the writing around the most intentionally mundane topics we can possibly think of
>this will be totally interesting and totally not boring to even slice of life fans

Lucky Shit's writing may be worse than Glasslip's.
>>
"anime is trash, my waifu>your waifu and my tastes>your tastes"
-george anime, creator of anime
>>
>>122559556
Except we do, look through all the shows in the last 15 years and a lot of moe SoLs are hit and miss and only hit if they market them well.
Only a fraction even make the studio enough money at the end when taxes/salary/other expenses are calculated.
>>
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>>122560563
>Locodol
>not hanayamata
Nigger do you even moe?
>>
>>122564930
>I can't into reference stuff
>>
SOLfags are so fucking gay
>>
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>>122556656
Why can't we just have every genre for everyone and be hap-

>head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs,"

Oh shit nigga now its on.
>>
>>122564930
Heh, that's fine if you don't prefer that style of writing. Go watch Naruto instead. It has a great storyline.
>>
>>122564704
I know the name JJ Abrams because his name was used to market a bunch of big-budget movies I never watched. Now when I see a commercial for something and it says "FROM THE VISIONARY DIRECTOR JJ ABRAMS" I think "Hey I recognize that guy, he's supposed to be really good".

It's the same thing in anime. Brand power doesn't require you to be a trivia geek to recognized. The name "Gen Urobuchi" had been plastered everywhere recently because he was a rising star among nitroplus' writing staff that they were intentionally marketing and upselling as a celebrity, and he had only recently authored an immensely successful light novel series of a massive franchise.

Yuki Kajiura is an iconic name that's been in the industry for years. You;d be hard pressed to be even a casual anime watcher and not have some recognition of the name, simply because she's been around and producing music for so long, particularly the recent KnK movies, which had massive exposure by virtue of being a series of movies with a full theatrical release.

And Shinbo himself is popular and well-known among otaku.

It's a 3-pronged marketing approach, appealing to various groups simultaneously by bringing together figures popular and trendy in the public conscious. In this case vague recognition tends to be just as good, or even possibly better than concrete recognition.
>>
Moeshit sucks
Moeshit is bad
Moeshit is cancer killing Anime

Are you upset yet fags?
>>
>>122564729
>Anime has all of the above
>it's ikuharashit
>>
>>122564766
>everything being made isn't breaking 10k sales
>it's not a viable market!
Are you a complete idiot or what? Anime is booming. There are more series being made and more series selling, more money being raked in now, than at any other point in the industry.

Anime production costs are low, which allows many series to be made and put on the market. All it takes is one show to be a hit and they more than recoup their losses on the other shows.

This is the current model for anime, it's about gambling on the fickle public opinion to land a huge hit, and to do that you need to get more shit on the market because you can't always predict what people will go nuts over.

Yet this is a pretty successful way of doing business, considering how everything is growing.
>>
So many retards in this thread. Moe is not dead, and will not die until the market moves on to something else. Whether you think it's good or bad is completely unimportant, because you don't impact the market in any way. Space Dandy didn't sell, and this fag is probably assblasted about it. It's the same mindset fags on /pol/ use.
>I didn't get that job I applied for
>IT'S THE FUCKING MEXICANS
>My shit show didn't sell
>IT'S THE FUCKING MOE
It's the same shit.
>>
>>122565009

Enjoy your Family Guy. Reference humor is below fart jokes.
>>
>>122565009
>big bang theory: weeb edition
>good
>>
>>122556656
Literally no one cares about moeshit
>>
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>>122564592
>Madoka sold on the misunderstanding that this show was somehow "subverting" the magical-girl genre, which is why so many normalfags who have very sparse memories of old magical-girls jumped in.
I think so too.

I firmly believe that the general public is unable to discern actual quality and they only operate based on what's popular and highly regarded by whom they consider authority. Normalfags have no true appreciation for anything. Anything they enjoy is enjoyed for the purpose of socialising, for the purpose of having party talk, for the purpose of making oneself look cultured, worldly and educated. The aspect of indulging oneself in something for the thing itself - regardless of how society views it - the essence of being an otaku in the Japanese sense, is foreign to the normalfag mind.

Madoka - just like Eva - and to a lesser degree also Bakemonogatari are shows which at their core are very otaku-centric, yet they do so in a slightly quirky manner and thus gain a reputation of being somehow different. Normalfags then jump the train under the premise that it's this "trippy" Japanese shit, which is oh-so-different from the rest, despite the fact that what they're shown heavily resembles what the rest does as well. Someone who hasn't seen the rest couldn't even tell precisely what's done differently, not to mention that they take heavy reference from the reviled rest, often setting themselves apart through literal or figurative reference of them, even paying homage. Someone who comes in from the outside, who's not a fan of anime would miss so much that it gets to the point where the difference becomes less pronounced.
>>
>>122565002
But Hanayamata was a shoujo adapted from a yuri manga. There was too much catty middleschool drama and daddy issues to be moe.
>>
>>122565002

Nigger do you even comfy? Locodol was so much comfier than Hanayamata's poor forced drama.
>>
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>>122565036
No
>>
>>122560563
>if it doesn't pander to me it's shit
>>
SoLfags are the kpopfags of /a/
>>
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The worst thing about cute girls shows is that great shows like Yuyushiki, Love Lab, and GJ-bu sold mediocrely while bland garbage like Gochiusa and Kirino Mosaic sold extremely well because of pedophiles.

Fuck everything
>>
>>122565121

If we all had an Agiri around just talking randomly in that wonderful Agiri voice, I don't think anyone would ever be upset.
>>
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Why is there so much quoting in this thread? Just post the fucking source materials so we can read them for ourselves.

And moe is certainly not seeing any decline, you can watch as little as two random airing series right now to see this.

I don't have the source material in front of me, but without it, no one can rule out the fact that this is simply a classical example of "historical error", particularly "history as a tradition", as explained by Alan Megill in his book, "Historical Knowledge, Historical Error: A Contemporary Guide to Practice." "History as tradition" is the concentration on the promotion of one's specific group or outlook.

In other words, these people who say that moe is on a decline may simply be promoting their own agenda to boost attention towards their own non-moe products.
>>
>>122565057
>>122565061

I don't even watch western stuff-- since I don't live in muriberger or yuropoor.
>>
>>122565197
You watch the japanese version of it, how is it any better?
>>
>>122562687
Kill yourself butthurt moeshitter
>>
>>122565105
Normalfags can't really into Bakemonogatari though. They tend to have one of two responses to it: either they hate (too Japanese, too fanservicey, too otaku), or they try to act like it's some deep masterpiece of meta commentary. Ironically I think the people who hate it understand the show better than the second ground.
>>
>>122564765
It depends on how much value you attribute to that sort of innovation. Is Disgaea innovative for introducing elemental fields to the tactical combat? It is, but I'd argue that such innovation is rather derivative.
Innovation does exist in Japan, I just think it's rare and it rarely touches the essence of gameplay itself. In the west, people are more willing to try new things - mostly in the indie sector of course.
When I think Japanese games, I mostly think JRPGs and games played from third person perspective with action-based combat, and those always tend to be kinda same-ish.
>>
>>122565164

SoL is my favorite genre and I hope you can see me THISing this post because I'm doing it as hard as I can. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees that Gochiusa and Kiniro Mosaic are about as formulaic and average, aside from KM's wonderful first and last episodes, as SoL can possibly be. I just get an overwhelming feeling of mediocrity from those shows, again, aside from those two KM episodes, which were very well directed.
>>
>>122565261
>>>/v/
>>
>>122560980

>implying reddit hates moe... oh wait, /r/anime is nothing but moecancer
>>
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>>122565002
My moe sensor is telling me Nanyako is superior moe and echo of certain scene still resonance in my ears.
>>122565164
>Slut Lab
>great show
It's not.
>>
>>122556656
I'm actually all for the end of moe as the current power, despite liking it as much as any other style, because I know it won't actually die, just stop being the main method of selling a show. He's saying the moe "trend" is over, which isn't the same as moe being over.
>>
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Friendly reminder
>>
>>122565164
>Love Lab
Maybe they shouldn't have given the girls boyfriends.

That will teach them.
>>
>>122565048
>Anime is booming.
What's booming is boring SoL and LNshit flooding the market, doing poorly but just enough to keep the shit going on.
It may be a viable way of doing business but at the expense of quality, an that's what all those rants are about.
>>
>>122556656
>moe
>over
>he says
sounds an idiot to me
>>
>>122565296
Classical stock reply from a moetard
>>
I'm still waiting for a new Urotsukidoji.
>>
>>122556656
>makes series like Space Dandy and Kill La Kill stand out so much
>kill la kill
stopped reading right there. i hope he dies.
>>
>>122565403
>moe shows = shows I like
>moeshit = shows I don't like
Nice opinions.
>>
>using moeshit unironically
/a/ is dead
>>
You moe-haters have more than enough shows to look for in the future. Prison School is getting an adaption for example.

Stop complaining already. Japan's taste is okay when it comes to these things. Moe stuff gets more sales because it's fans are more obsessive than the fans of non-moe stuff. Plus, the BD's are expensive as fuck, no one wants to waste 200+ dollars on a cartoon.
>>
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>>122565053
>implying i don't spend thousands of dollars buying muh BDs every year
>>
>>122565403

Replace K-ON with something truly deserving like Girlfriend (Kari) and I'll be with you on that image. Of course, the trolling value of your image would be largely lost then. I know you put that there first for a reason. K-ON may not have had as much music or plot content as some people may have liked but it was really objectively well-executed as an anime.
>>
>>122565519
I have nothing against the actual SoL genre but i fucking hate the fanbases with a passion
>>
>>122565426
These rants mostly emerge when a studio produces something original or risk taking that justifiable fails because it's bad.

They either talk mad shit about the state of the industry prior to release in the hopes that they'll attract people to their 'anime saving masterpiece' a la yamakan, or talk sour grapes about their tripe failing, blaming the state of the industry rather than their own creative failings.
>>
Moe has always been cancer and it's utter shit. It will change eventually
>>
Love these /v/bait threads.
>>
>>122565341
Kill yourself.
>>
>>122560798
>Galaxy Express 999
>Family friendly
All of my WHAT

Show GE999 and it will melt most /a/ pleb's minds. Heck, I still have some episodes written with fire in my mind when I saw them as a kid. Some of them were brutal and merciless. I fucking love GE999, even after all the dead horse beating from Matsumoto, you can call the show what you want, but it is not Family Friendly.

>>122562469
>“There isn’t much diversity now,” Anno lamented.
>“Today's anime fans and creators are exclusively into anime. In the past, there were people in the industry who wanted to do other things"
This could not be truer. Any 80's or 90's anime viewer can remember the artistic diversity and exploration. Just for instance, we had things like Robot Carnival or Memories. Today we cant even dream of that. Closest thing were Anime Mirai and that was thanks to the goverment.

Thanks to anime mirai we have Death Parade, it shows that some people in anime wants to do other things still.

A major problem in /a/ its that most people thinks that just because you have a 100 flavors ice cream shop, every single one deserves to be tasted, Having 100 shitty options is not better than having 50 or 40 high quality ones.

And for the plebs sayiong that muh design is everything, just look at the average animation quality. Jesus guys, even the average 90's show have better animation quality
>>
>>122565403
>Left : well-known studios such as Bones, KyoAni or PA Works
>Right : garbage studios such as Silver Link or Dogakobo
Am I seeing a trend here ?
>>
>>122565411

They should have given them girlfriends instead, amirite?
>>
>>122565512
Moeshit is a real thing
Cry more faggot
>>
>>122565460
As opposed to your classic /v/ermin reply "kill yourself moeshitter"?

Just go home crossboarder.
>>
Moeshitters mad as fuck.
>>
>anyone who doesnt enjoy the same thing i do is from another board/site
>b-but /a/ is not a hivemind
its not.
you faggots should accept that everyone has different tastes
and that my tastes>your tastes
>>
>>122565640
Kyoani's on both sides, Baka.
>>
Source?
>>
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>weekend /a/
>>
>>122565640

No, because Silver Link is also on the left and KyoAni is also on the right. Also, Silver Link could not have nailed Non Non Biyori any more perfectly than they did. They may be hit and miss as a studio, but they have it in them to absolutely nail an adaptation 100%.
>>
>>122565519
moe-haters have plenty of reasons to complain; money isn't fucking infinite you retard, if money goes into one genre of anime production more than another, that genre will see products that are of higher quality than other products, leaving other producers in the dust scrounging money for their own products.

however, these complainers can't be respected if they aren't putting money into the products they like, e.g. buying BDs, DVDs and merch.
>>
>>122565728
Nice memetexting retard, totally not proving you're a /v/shitter.
>>
>>122565706
Well, calling you a moeshitter and telling you to kill yourself makes sense since he doesnt like you so he's trying to offend you and you enjoy Sol, a genre characterized by "moe".
On your side of this """"discussion"""", you keep telling him to go back to /v/, which is just plain projecting.
>>
>>122565403
Why does /a/ hate Love Lab? We really have that many /u/tards?
>>
>>122562750
>As long as this remains the case, "moeshit" will remain a thing. "Moeshit" is just a symptom of the cause explained above. Give people shitty lives and they're gonna want to watch cute kittens playing and cute girls doing cute things.

I think this is increasingly true of both the audience and the creators themselves, unfortunately.

A lot of unhappy animators who grow up viewing the world through a keyhole, using their stunted life experience to create stunted fantasy scenarios. Which is why I guess these worlds feel so natural for us NEETs and Wizards.
>>
>>122561547
Why is that, that you think that people who watch one show dont watch other shows? With the exception of shounen anime, which have people from outside of /a/ come to discuss, there is no way for you to know with certainty.
>>
moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit moe is shit
>>
>>122565803
>memetexting
Solfags, everyone.
>>
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>>122565805
>which is just plain projecting

How the fuck is telling someone to fuck off projecting?

Oh my god we have some retards in this thread.
>>
>>122565547
Oh, no, I'm sure you do. And don't get me wrong, that's a sizable investment, but my point is that unless you're moving millions of units at a time, and I really doubt you are, the impact on the industry that a few grand a year makes is pretty minuscule.
>>
>>122565806
No, it's just a few vocal androphobes
>>
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I love the use of the expression "Golden Age," here, because anime has always been riding the coattails of other golden ages, like the golden age of Sci-Fi, or Comics.
>>
>>122565854
Since you're here.
>>
>>122565849
Look, he's replying with memes again. What a fucking retard, and he was trying to convince me that he wasn't a crossboarder? Holy shit, I can't stop laughing.
>>
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Considering the small sized forum I frequently visit, there are two kinds of people that hate moe:

1. Mechafags

2. Newfags which are the vast majority.

Especially when your reply is written butthurt like >>122565695, >>122565722 or >>122565845, you're basically admitting that you're 16 years old who just found anime.

After few months you're either gonna give up on anime after completing 25 whole shows or you accept moe
>>
>>122565803
>shitter
Is something someone who goes on /v/ would say.
>>
>>122565899
IRC pls
>>
>>122565585
Wre're not talking about Yamakan's trash here, wer're talking about actual good shows doing never more than 4k while Saekano did 6k on first week.
>>
>>122561985
Actually, there are. Look at those people that spouting "moeshit" term in this thread.
Even you can find that kind of people easier in other boards (e.g. /tv/, /co/, /k/, etc)

Source: My experience from lurking the archives
>>
late 90's were the best time for anime, prove me wrong.
>>
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>This thread
>>
>>122560711
>>122560842
Yeah, anon. It's going to get deleted any minute now and you aren't a retard with a persecution complex at all.
>>
So basically people just want their age of sci-fi OVA SHADING anime back and hate everything that includes girls as main characters.
>>
>>122565943
Huh? Are you just out of ideas to reply with now? Just get lost dude you know you're done.
>>
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>>122565952
>>
Remember when shounenfags were the problem?
>>
>>122565949
Di Gi Charat and Utena were great
>>
>>122556656
Considering he made a show even more cancerous than moe, I wouldn't trust him.
>>
>Everyone misinterprets/shitposts about what Sato is saying because he's "attacking" moe and listing anime popular within the western anime community in an interview at a western convention
/a/ full of retards as usual
>>
>>122565895
Epic post dude and equally epic reaction image however that still does not remove the fact that someone is retarded enough to use words like projecting without knowing its proper meaning.
>>
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>>122561039
In terms of sales he and /a/ are pretty much even, so I don't see why not.
>>
>>122565921
Not all mechafags hate moe. Even on /m/, where you get some /v/-level whining about "moeshit", there's still people who are okay with it. See any RGZ thread.
>>
>>122565880
Well supposedly the driving force behind the anime golden age was the rise of the VHS and laserdisc.

I wouldn't really say that anime is 'riding on the coattails' of the scifi genre since it essentially contributed a great deal to that genre with its own scifi works. That's like saying "Greek plays were just riding on the coattails of Tragedy"
>>
>>122565858
I can only have faith in my brothers who actually put money into the industry for products we actually enjoy, (products that aren't generic as fuck and pander to the least common denominator of consumers).
>>
>space blandy and shit la shit
>anything other than crap
>>
>>122565943

Saekano is actually a well-executed show, though, and it's even self-aware of its own shortcomings. It shouldn't be surprising that it's selling well. Yes, its characters are as cliched of one-dimensional archetypes as possible. That's the point. The show glorifies the tropes of its subject matter.
>>
>>122564729
Basically there is no pleasing /a/ and it is to anime what /v/ is to gaming.
>>
>shounen and "moe"anime are the only genres
>shounen is a genre
This thread is pleb general holy shit, its like two different kindergartens waged war on each other.
>>
>>122565943
You've got me interested,
What's an example of an actually good show selling under 4k that provoked someone creatively involved in its production to publicly denounce the state of the industry?
>>
>>122566078
This is genuinely nice damage control.
>>
>>122561309
>implying that /a/ aren't the most casual anime watchers

Is this your first day on the internet?
>>
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>>122565921
This post will come in handy for future threads, thanks anon.
>>
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>>122566012
They still are. This board is currently getting spammed with DBZ shit to death if you haven't noticed it yet.
>>
>>122566078
Plus it's stylistically unique, making the best use of rotoscoping in recent memory and being shot in a style much more akin to japanese cinema than traditional animatography.
>>
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>>122565921
>They don't like what I do!
>They must be newfags!
>>
>>122566012

Just wait until this summer when the new SAO/SnK appears and exposes /v/ here along with it. Then you'll see. /v/ is still the problem.
>>
>>122565943
>6k sales
>good
>>
>>122566058
Of course they made lots of good Sci-Fi, that wasn't my point, my point was that they made it following the golden age in the West. It already happened here and they were just catching the tail-end of it. That's not to say anything about the quality.
>>
>>122565921
Project harder you faggot
>>
>>122563537
>Madoka is an extreme example of a show that had a very niche target audience but became a mainstream success due to internet buzz.

>>122563733
>During production and the leadup to its airing, it was marketed as a traditional mahou shoujo aimed at the standard audience for the genre. The 'darker' elements were intentionally hidden during the ad campaign and only really came to light during the 3rd episode twist.

This is the perfect example of the problem. Madoka was new and different, but to get it made they had to be deceptive and hide what it truly was. I'll bet it wasn't just the audience, but the sponsors and C-suite executives were also hoodwinked and had no idea what they greenlit and funded.

It's also a perfect example of how breakthroughs pave a path for uniformity -- so many shows began adding MEGUCA SUFFERING to the formula, specifically due to how well Madoka did in the marketplace.
>>
>>122556656
>The 'kawaii' trend is just a phase.

The more things change...

Also, OP, do you have source or are you just pulling shit out of your ass.
>>
>>122566012
Haven't you look at all the DBZ shit?
>>
>>122566012
>>122566127
>>122566168
Why are people discussing shit I don't like!?
Jesus mofags are truly cancer
>>
>>122566104

I'm not >>122565585 if you think I am, and I'm not even a big Saekano fan, but I'm happy you thought my post was genuinely nice. I think Saekano is a genuinely well-executed show.
>>
>>122566190
A giant moe shit coming otu of his ass.
>>
>>122566158

>making the best use of rotoscoping in recent memory

...I'll say, as I didn't even notice it until you just mentioned it. That means it was used well.
>>
>>122565164
If you have a daughter will you kill yourself for being a pedophile? Lol retard.
>>
>>122566127
>>122566215
Almost like DBZ doesn't have an upcoming movie or something.
>>
>>122565341
>>>/u/
>>
>>122565706
Are you a complete fucktard? Holy shit I am laffin
>>
>>122566168
>SAO/SnK
Are you saying that /v/ likes those shows?
>>
>>122566185
>but to get it made they had to be deceptive and hide what it truly was
You're missing the point entirely.
It intentionally concealed its nature to spark controversy. It was a marketing ploy, not by the animators or creative directors, but by the bigshot producers.

It had nothing to do with the content of the show itself, it was just a gimmick to get a buzz going. There's no such thing as bad press, and thousands of people going online to react to how shocked they were when a character was brutally decapitated on-screen in their little girl cartoon generates a lot of positive attention.

It was just a means to exploit the graphic nature of the show and add to the shock value. No executives were 'hoodwinked' in order for the series to be created, it was exactly the kind of design-by-committee bullshit that's so common nowadays.
>>
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>>122565109
>>122565115
>muh drama
And this is why you all have shit taste!
>>
>>122566232

>Why are people discussing shit I don't like!?

It's not really that so much as, with the SAO/SnK thing... those fanbases tended to spam threads. Way too many threads.
>>
>>122566301
Oh my god more memes, can these retards ever stop? Holy fuck are you dumb!
>>
>>122566326
I loved the drama, it just wasn't moe.
>>
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>beginning of the thread was pretty chill
>suddenly plenty of post with ''moeshit'' and ''moefag''

Yeah certainly not the work of a samefagging dumbass.

You really suck at this mate.
>>
>>122566347
Call it what you will, the character designs were lovely.
>>
/V/ THE DARK LORD IS HERE!!!!!
>>
>>122565519
>Moe stuff gets more sales
There are so many "moe"-shows that fail horribly in the sales department and just as many non "moe"-shows that succeed, so I wouldn't say that statement is true.
>>
>>122566373
That they were
>>
>>122566326

There's drama and then there's poorly-executed forced drama. Hanayamata has too much of the latter.
>>
I love how moetards are the most sensitive and aggressive fags on this board
You can criticise other shows you want, but if you dare to criticise their bland and inoffensive slice of life shows they'll start hurling petty insults and empty buzzwords ar you
>>
>>122566185
>This is the perfect example of the problem. Madoka was new and different, but to get it made they had to be deceptive and hide what it truly was.

Gen Urobutchi had a reputation as a writer prior to Madoka airing (in fact, a lot of the hype both on /a/ and in nipland was due to his involvement), and Shinbo was already a prolific director. Quality of the work aside, it was a safe bet. They didn't have to 'hide' anything (almost) half a decade ago, because everyone had expectations ahead of time and they were very much fulfilled.
>>
>>122566182
>>122566162
>not denying it
It's the truth
>>
>Saenashit
>well executed

Well meme'd my friend.
>>
>>122566313
No, water isn't wet either and fire is cold.
>>
I loved space dandy but that guy is a faggot
>>
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>>122566370
>>
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>>122566278
>>122566232

>implying this is an excuse to not contain your shit in just one thread
>>
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>>122566326
S2 never, scans never.
>>
It has nothing to do with being a fan of one, the other, or both. It has to do with rabbid fandom and fanboyism, which is a complete cancer on any medium.
>>
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>>122562916
>but the number of talented animators is dwindling, as less people want to become animators.
THATS BECAUSE YOU DONT PAY THEM SHIT AND TREAT THEM LIKE SHIT
S H I T
H
I
T

As an artist i might have considered going that route, but unfortunately, judging from all the things i've heared, it sounds like a fucking joke. Who in their right mind would even consider going down that route with all these rumors about their working conditions?
Especially in japan, where you can just as well go for manga.
>>
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>>122556750
citing the popular Puella Madoka Magica as an example of a moe-inspired anime
>moe-inspired
Why is this nigga making up new ambiguous terms? All the show had that was anything "moe-like" was the characters being a bit young. It's not like they're sitting around eating tea and cake talking about random shit.

>head away from the "flat-chested" moe style toward the direction of "big boobs,"

This nigga is full-on retard.
>>
>>122556656
Without reading the thread and responding only to the OP, because there's no way the thread can be anything but shit -

> He cited the explosion of interest in Attack on Titan as a "return to interest in the Big Riddle, or the Big Question," another theme of Golden Age anime.
Moe anime and all the other shit that respectable don't like exists because of people who didn't like the answers to the Big Questions. Big questions fucking suck.
>>
>>122560812
The main thing I'm taking away away from this is how totally late-night, one- or two-cour TV shows have supplanted OVAs.
>>
>>122566430

Saekano has high production value with an absence of any real QUALITY in any area of the production, and there is no pair of characters this season with better chemistry/interactions/dialogue than Tomoya and Megumi. Yes, it is a show consisting of generic tropes because it makes a point of glorifying those tropes, but for what it is, everything about it is really well done. Any anime studio would be thrilled to use such a well-executed anime as its business card, as Shirobako put it.
>>
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