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Why do people think Kyubey was evil?

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Why do people think Kyubey was evil?
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>Human opinions
>mattering

Pick one and only one.
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>>122410142
He was always peeing in the girls tea. Mami had to die after discovering this.
>>
From humanity's perspective he is evil. The heat death of the universe does not concern us because we will die as a species long before that happens. Their motive is selfish.
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People dislike manipulators
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>>122410142
do you think people who eat cows/chicken/pigs/(other farmed resource) evil?
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>>122410142
Mostly because he didn't tell the girls they are universe fuel, but they also didn't read the user agreement
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Greater good is a concept that people stop understanding as soon as they have to pay a cost to protect someone else.
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>>122410822
Cows/Chickens/Pigs are not intelligent creatures. A better comparison would be slavery.
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>>122410822
Cows don't care if they're packed into a barn waiting to be killed. But humans would care if they were farmed for energy.
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>>122410912
But then how are you able to write and use a keyboard right now?
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>>122410939
Resources are resources, whether they care or not isn't as important as what they fulfill if its for a higher purpose.
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>>122411000
I hope you're implying I'm a chicken.
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>>122410939
Honestly it's not that bad if you think about it. You get anything you could possible want, go for one hell of a ride, become a work of art, then become recyclable.
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>>122411036
Exactly, if they were just using people for their own benefit it might be evil. As is its more of a mutually beneficial relationship where the incubator doesn't give anything up.
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>>122411067
It's definitely not mutually beneficial to the magical girls since they have to go through despair to become a witch. It's a scam.
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>>122411101
but first they enjoy anything they want and based on the characters we seen, a great deal of happiness.

Naturally that has to balance out with some despair later.
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>>122411101
But they aren't forced to be magical girls, this is what happens when you don't read the user agreement form or even ask for it. If you get something as amazing as a wish there is going to be a catch.
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He is evil but not pure evil like Homura.
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There comes a point when being too neutral is evil. Like the Swiss.
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>>122411152
>>122411147
they're fucking children they have no idea what they're getting into and can't be expected to even know what they want
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Human morals don't apply to aliens. A good alien doesn't give a fuck what humans think. Or, a good friendly alien tries to fit in, despite their quirks. This doesn't hold true for freaks like goths and emos, but for real aliens, it's fact.

By the way, I'm not an alien.
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There is nothing wrong with a superior species using an inferior one. To that, QB treats humans better than human's treatment of any animal.
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>>122411214
So it's not a myth? Fucking children will make you stupid?
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>>122411197
b-but they make delicious cheese!
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>>122410142
define evil
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>>122411298
Homu
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>>122411298
The opposite of good!
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>moral ambiguity is cool because evil is cool
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>>122411326
Well he isn't homu
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>>122410142
This may help
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>>122411456
Nobody ever calls him good though
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>>122410776
yeah, I don't give a shit about the universe because I'll be long dead before then. Hell, If I had the power I'd turn those little white cunts into our pets
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>>122410912
>Humans
>Intelligent
AHAHAHAHAHA
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>>122411298
Raping Madoka.
Raping god.
Raping hope incarnate.

Homura is like triple evil.
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>>122410939
So instead of giving those girls a contract. Kyubey's kinds should just invade and tame us to the point that we won't think it's wrong anymore?
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>>122410142
KYUBEY DID NOTHING WRONG
>>
Say it with me now:
KYUBEY DID
NOTHING WRONG
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>>122410776
I'm pretty sure "I don't care about it because I'll be dead" is more selfish than the incubators.
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>>122410142
He was pretty evil in the movie because he got directly involved in everything by imprisoning Homura and experimenting on her.
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>>122410699
What is mattering without human opinions?
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>>122410776
>From humanity's perspective he is evil.
He may be evil by humahity's perspective, but he is not evil by DnD definition of evil. Look up terminilogy before posting in DnD threads, fucktard.
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>>122412742
He did it for a great cause.
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>>122412742
Atleast series showed him as almost invinsible, movie shows what happens when he fucks with gods.
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>>122410142
because they does terrible things, but the whole 'what alignment' thing doesn't really matter in regards to incubators. They are true neutral like your OP states, it's a hivemind with no emotions and whose will is probably programmed into their DNA. They're just doing what their instincts tell them to do.
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>hurr kyubey is evil because girls suffer after a contract
Who thought that he will stop all the suffering and sadness they will experience? He only fulfills your any dream and you have to fight for him in the exchange, that's all clear. MGs become witches because they fall into despair, but it's not Kyubey who causes it, it's part of being human.
>>
Reminds me of a class I took where there was a test about picking the most neutral of two arguments, and most people failed it because they agreed with the biased argument.

This is kind of like that. Anything I don't like cannot possibly be 'fair' or 'neutral', etc. People are retarded.
>>
>muh souls
>muh suffering
Holy shit get over yourselves, humans. Those don't mean shit when the universe is dying.
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>>122414251
you present a deal, you lay out everything for someone. You don't trick desperate and naive people into life and death games unless you want to be called a monster
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>>122410142
Is did nothing wrong, but as a human, we have tendance to see him as evil.
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>>122413500
Dungeons and Dragons?

What?
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>>122411642
They're conscious and can clearly communicate in a comprehensive way with the Incubators.
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>>122410142
Because people are wired to see a lack of emotional attachment as bad. If you go purely by logic, what Kyubey and his people were doing was "good", but to humans logic not tempered by reason and emotion is seen as dangerous.
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>>122413995
Well to be fair it was in Kyubey's best interest that the girls fall in to despair. He doesn't actively have to push them into it as humans will naturally generate despair for themselves, but you'd be a fool if you didn't think having fall into despair is his end goal.
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>>122411531
Because he's not, he intentionally manipulated the girls. He not only hid away information before forming a contract he straight out lied to Sakura causing her death.
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>>122415108
Not the the one you're replying to but here's what I found:

Good implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.

Evil implies harming, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient or if it can be set up. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some malevolent deity or master.

People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships.
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>>122410142
>True Neutral

Wouldn't Chaotic Neutral be more accurate? Considering he(?) has no problem with granting anything they wish for, even rewriting the laws of the universe.
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>>122410142
Because red eyes.
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>>122410142
Not evil but the antagonist of the series.
Why is this so hard to grasp?
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>>122410142
Because he is a psychopath that emotionally enslaves young women with false promises and drives them into suicide, delusion, despair and self-harm. He is also impersonal and feels no guilt or attachment to his victims. He has a psychological and probably instinctive need to dominate and abuse. He rationalizes his behavior to great detail, convincing the members of his coven that they are his property, physically and emotionally. He further uses manipulation and programming to dehumanize his followers and make them loyal to him, even in the face of physical and psychological harm.

I don't think there's a judge or jury on this Earth that would be fooled by Kyubey's act for one second. If Kyubey was a human he'd get the chair.
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>>122415534
Yes, but I guarantee you that most people will empathize with Homura over Kyubey. While what Homura did was certainly "evil" in the human sense, it was from understandable emotional motivations, while Kyubey's "evil" is due to purely logical motivations, so humans are more inclined to denounce it. Humans see the entire world through their emotional lens, it colors our perception of everything, so while what Kyubey did was arguably good, people will always see it as evil as his action brought about human suffering, which they empathize with and detest, while Homura's actions were purely selfish, she's more likely to get a pass for it from some because they can understand the emotions that would lead one to such actions.
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>>122416138
But his ultimate goal is to save the universe. It's not like he's doing it for his personal gain.
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>>122415886
That sounds more true than chaotic to me
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>>122416269
Not saying you're wrong but could you elaborate why you think so?
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>>122416138
>Because he is a psychopath that emotionally enslaves young women with false promises and drives them into suicide, delusion, despair and self-harm.
He doesn't actually give anyone false promises. Kyubey always grants your wish, it's not his fault that you didn't think about the consequences of said wish, it's the djinn's curse.
>He is also impersonal and feels no guilt or attachment to his victims. He has a psychological and probably instinctive need to dominate and abuse.
He doesn't feel anything, it's not like he's causing pain to these girls because he gets some sick thrill out of it. It's for the survival of the universe and as far as he and the rest of the universe are concerned, the emotional suffering of a few girls is a bargain price for continued existence, especially since they don't understand this whole emotion nonsense in the first place. I think you're assigning characteristics to a character that does not and can not have them due to your personal disgust with their actions.
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>>122413500
DnD alignment system is shit though and only works in specific cases like in DnD (obviously) where conscious beings who represent the according alignment exist serving as the beacon and thus allowing to dismiss the "muh point of view" arguments. That doesn't work in other settings. And they overhauled it in the latest edition anyways (making it even more shit though).
>>
People tend to forget that he was directly responsible for blowing up the fucking planet
Like, that was his plan, and he succeeded

RIP Earth #4, never forget
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>>122416315
>it's not his fault that you didn't think about the consequences of said wish
It kinda is given how incredibly misleading he is about the whole thing. He deliberately feeds them evasive answers and half-truths because he knows the truth would mean no one would contract. He's a salesman first and foremost, and he's pretty good at it.
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>>122416544
>implying one planet with one sapient species isn't worth destroying to save the whole universe.
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>>122416674
That's easy to say when you're not one of the people actually living on the planet in question.
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>>122416705
Even if you are the most logical course of action would be to sacrifice your planet for the good of the many, this would also be the "correct" thing to do from a moral standpoint. Humans would never accept that though because we are hardwired to survive at all costs, and we have an emotional attachment to out kin and home to ensure their survival.
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>>122416705
You're right but it doesn't make it any less true. If you could choose between the destruction of the universe or 1 planet with sentient life, the answer seems to be pretty clear.
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>>122416836
Except it's not that simple. You're looking at immediate destruction of the planet versus the death of the universe a googol number of years away.
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>>122416783
Depends on your morals. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting your species and everyone you know to stay alive versus the natural end of the universe happening an unimaginably long time in the future.
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>>122416914
It is that simple, you're only concerned about the time because, compared to the universe, humans have extremely short lifespans. To a being that's immortal, which do you think is the more pressing issue?
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>>122416982
Why am I supposed to care about such beings?
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>>122416982
That's fucking great for immortal beings, some of us have more immediate things to worry about. You realize by this logic, he's not going to stop at Earth? If he has to keep the universe running FOREVER (a long time!), there's no reason that he won't be willing to blow up more planets if necessary. How many dead civilizations are acceptable? At what point are you just killing the inhabitants of the universe to save the universe? Who's left? Who gave them the right to make that kind of decision? For all we know they're the only ones who benefit.
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>>122416964
I don't see anything wrong with it either but that's because I'm human, I have a vested interest in our species survival even if I don't actively contribute to it. However, it is generally seen as moral for individuals or small groups to sacrifice themselves for the good of the many, though only willingly in the case of humans. You see this throughout human culture, with everything from Heroes of myth, to soldier, to you local fireman, they are often venerated because they sacrifice themselves for the greater good.

>>122417019
Why should you care about any one's well being but your own, and on the flip side of things, why should said being care about what you want?
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>>122417094
>Why should you care about any one's well being but your own
We don't exist in a vacuum. Our actions impact others on this planet. We also have a natural tendency to empathise with other humans that we are "close" to.

>why should said being care about what you want?
It probably wouldn't and I'm not saying it inherently should.
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>>122416253
A lot of cult and coven leaders irl had the exact same goal and were convinced they were doing the right thing.
Incidentally, they also targeted a lot of young women with emotional problems. If she herself says it's ok, what kind of incubator would he be if he argued?

>>122416315
Kyubei plz. How can you even use a computer with no opposable thumbs.
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>>122417094
>Why should you care about any one's well being but your own, and on the flip side of things, why should said being care about what you want?
What? one does not care about immortal beings because you know they are...immortals! and here it is literally costing lives.

Oh and stop that thing of sacrificing the less for a greater good.
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>>122412696
I know I'm thinking from a human perspective, but I think all species should strive for a democratic universe. The incubators are trying to force a certain outcome, they used trickery from the very beginning, and that is immoral on my compass at least.
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>>122416783
Fuck you.
I'll sacrifice the rest of the universe if it means that I can keep on living.
The most logical course of action is self-preservation.
What QB also did, what is really rarely mentioned is how he keeps humanity far, far below his level, so they couldn't possibly become a threat to incubator society.
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>>122410142
Actually, he was lawful neutral
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>>122417471
>they used trickery
He literally said that he would have opened his mouth if asked.
The whole, "oh no you tricked us you monster" is elementary.
First thing any person with brains would ask would be, "whats the catch?'"
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>>122410142
Kyubei is evil, His goal seems honorable in that he's trying to stave off the heat death of the universe, but he is doing it by using a sentient species as "fuel" to prevent it from happening.

He is also using deception, because he gives something to a person for a price, but never tells them the price of the thing.

If people in real life get in trouble for this because it is unethical business, and you're offering this contract to those too young to understand and legally sign a contract, then yes, you are evil.
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>>122417809
Yeah, but they conveniently use young, impressionable girls for this shit. But trickery aside, it's still not democratic.
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>>122417809
First thing any person with brains would ask would be, "whats the catch?'"

There is a reason why legally obtaining a contract from a minor is difficult - because most of them dont' question "what's the catch" because they don't know to.

And therein lies the problem.
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>>122417898
Did I say Homura was not evil for doing this? No. The response was to kyubei. Homura was wrong, as well, but again, since she's still underage, more can be forgiven because her sense of rigfht and wrong, the fact that she is too young to live in a house unsupervised, and allowing the fact that she too was tricked into this contract means that her efforts are marginally less evil than kyubei's.

Now that your distraction has been dealt with, can you get back to talking about kyubei, and how their plan is stupid and evil for exploiting children?
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>>122411152
People keep saying "they didn't read the user agreement" but Kyubey didn't hand out a contract with the phrase "Oh by the way you will inevitably become a witch" on it. He tells them what he wants them to hear and kept the rest to himself.
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>>122417991
It's just the same dude whose schtick is to hate on Homura - you can see that his posts have all been deleted. Don't indulge him.
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>>122416315
>He doesn't feel anything
He has enough brains to make good persusasion. So he has enough brains to realize he is causing serious harm for no reason.
Evil is not about getting a boner, its about how meaningless you can do it.
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>>122415254
>Humans communicating in a comprehensive way

I though it was a parlor trick taught to them so that they could fight each other.
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>>122417991
This is all wrong. Consider that the only flaw Kyubey held was that he wanted to enslave people for the good of the universe, when Madoka proved cooperation is better.

Homura wasn't tricked, she made her wish selfishly and proceeded to use those around her as tools to control Madoka to fulfill her inhuman desire for attention. As a demon, she knowingly damned the universe and fucked heaven beyond repair, literally burning the souls in it as fuel for her universe of brainwashed puppets. She isn't a child, she's a monster.

>>122418052
You can't say Kyubey is evil when he was painted as such by Homura. Why did Kyouko die? Because she let Kyubey manipulate her and did nothing to help ease her mind, because Kyouko is a tool to be used and discarded once Madoka is hers. Homura has much less empathy than Kyubey ever did.
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homu
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>>122410142
It's less that Kyubey is evil, and more that the laws of the universe are evil. Kyubey is not exactly your friend, but he's still operating on lawful rationality. When those laws are changed after Madoka's wish, Kyubey operates on those laws instead. He appears to actually have a good relation with Homura in that universe, unlike the previous worlds.
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>>122410881
If you're only interested in virtue when it has no cost, then you're no different than an animal acting on instinct.
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>>122416620
But he never lies!
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Adding fuel to the fire since someone mentioned D&D: According to Gary "Paladins should kill Orc babies" Gygax's version of alignment, Kyubey could be Lawful Good.
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>>122418466
"Homura is not my friend, and she deserves to die alone and unloved."- Madoka, Sayaka, Mami, Kyouko, Nagisa
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>>122410142
Ep.8-9? Madoka, be that kind and kill yourself for the sake of the Universe, your species will join later, it's not just for us

Ep.10 To Homu: I got enough juice and your world is FUCKED, sucks to be you, bye bye

Is this the attitude of nice alien?
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>>122410142
Why didn't anybody wish for the Universe to not need the Energy the Magic Girl -> Witch transformation produces. Problem solved.
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>>122410142
QB might have been okay, except for the part where he sets Gretchen up knowing it'll destroy the Earth. His talk about being reasonable with his contracts sort of collapses there.
>>
Shouldn't it be chaotic neutral?
Going all the way to a remote planet, treat girls like cattle and don't really care if the whole planet gets destroyed in the process. Yes it's to ensure a greater good but they are not being exactly neutral about it.
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>>122420008
There were limits to what they could wish for based on how much power they could generate. Most had very small and simple wishes so not much power was needed, madoka could only make her wish to become god because homu's shenanigans
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>>122420313
It's not good in the sense they're not monks. But as a superior race who's trying to stop the death of the universe they weren't bad either. While they don't have respect for life it's not like they were doing it for the sake of being evil, it all served a higher purpose.
>>
>>122420008
No entropy = dead Universe.
Vastly changed laws of physics = Universe we wouldn't be able to recognize where humanity as we know it wouldn't be able to exist.
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>>122418085
I've tried explaining this to several people and only the person that really did have experience with the occult figured out what I was talking about.
Evil isn't just causing suffering to another person, it's about making the suffering meaningless. Because that, in turn, makes them meaningless.
>>
>>122420008
Not enough wish juice.
Not enough 14 years old girls that understand what's going on.
>>
>>122420469
Maybe I'm wrong but isn't lawful/chaotic about the way you go at things rather than the motive?
They didn't explain properly things to beings that could understand them/they could talk to and that weren't against their beliefs and end up putting Earth in danger even to the point of destruction.
>>
>>122420980
Which makes Kyubey not evil. What you described is exactly Homura's objective, to cause pointless suffering to fuel her ego.
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>>122421032
3rd edition:

Law implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include closed-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.

Chaos implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them.

Someone who is neutral with respect to law and chaos has a normal respect for authority and feels neither a compulsion to follow rules nor a compulsion to rebel. They are honest but can be tempted into lying or deceiving others if it suits him/her.
>>
>>122419627
Yeah, just forgets to mention important things occasionally (which would make his job harder) and pretends to give a fuck about humanity while he doesn't.
>>
>But he's doing it all to save the universe
No he isn't. That's not how physics works.
>>
>>122421249
It sounds to me that he would be Lawful. Everything he says is in fact true, he never lies, although he doesn't always tell the whole truth.

Another thing is that he will grant any wish, assuming it's withing his power. Pretty sure that if they wished for the extinction of his own race, he would do it.
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>>122421479
I don't think humans understand the universe as much as this qt does.
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>>122421479
>mammal who barely crawled out of the cave talks about real physics
>>
>>122421570
>>122421611
Seeing as we're talking about a fictional character created by humans here, I don't they could possibly understand more about physics than we do.
>>
>>122410142

Kyubey is an archetypical lawful evil outsider.

He is a devil that would fit right into the Nine Hells.

He is based on Mephistopheles in Faust.
>>
>>122410142
Kyubey is true hero.
Bitches deserved what they got.
>>
>>122421832
>other fictional beings can't have better understanding of physics than author
That's not how fiction works.
>>
>>122421832
umm ok kid
>>
>>122421905
What? Almost by definition a fictional character cannot have a better understanding on a subject than the author since their knowledge is entirely dependent on the knowledge of the author
>>
>>122422009
Contain your autism.
>>
>>122421853
No he isn't. Yes, he's Mephistopheles, but he isn't evil like Homura is with her treachery. He wasn't even wrong to torture her.
>>
>>122422009
I give you 3/10 because you got 3 responses out of me.

On the off chance you're not a troll can you explain why we have fiction full of autonomous thinking machines, spaceships with warp drives, teleports and other things we can only imagine now?
Do you think that all the authors are secret [whatever_science_applies] Nobel price holders or maybe they just make that shit up?
>>
>>122421853
Mephistopheles is not evil.
He just wanted Faust's soul, because he was playing a game with God.
>>
>>122410142
Because he isn't a cute little girl so people don't give a fuck about him.
>>
>>122421853
>>122422034
Mephistopheles is not evil, have you even read the damn play or at least the fucking prologue?
I just a game, harmless banter between a third-rate devil, God and his angels.
>>
>>122421853
>QB
>devil
He is a victim.
>>
>>122423316
He might not get as many threads as Homu or KyoSaya but people do give a fuck.
>>
>>122412742
And that's why it is fanfiction tier.
>>
>>122424057
Madoka will murder Homura and set things right again. The only bad thing about the series ending was that Homura never suffered and died alone with no heaven. Now she can.
>>
>>122412456
if you do it right, no one will notice that you're forcing them to do anything
>>
>>122424057
Not really. Homu fucked up when she talked about previous loops at the end of Ep 12 and he became interested in much easier energy gathering and explanation for LoC. Nothing out of character or against his motivation.
>>
>>122417809
http://definitions.uslegal.com/l/lie-by-omission/
>>
>>122417809
>First thing any person with brains would ask would be, "whats the catch?'"
And he'd say with a straight :3 face that there's none, just fighting witches.
You know, he doesn't understand that whole deal with souls and emotions.
>>
>>122424294
Homura didn't fuck up, she wanted to end the law of cycles from day one. She just didn't think they would use her.
>>
>>122424392
do you think he lies when he says he doesn't understand emotions? if no, then we have grounds to understand why he doesn't know what is important (emotionally) for people. unless people tell him straight to his face what they want, what they feel, he doesn't get it, and even when he is told, he just accepts it, rather than understands the underlying reasons.

he doesn't understand what is "important" for them to know because he only functions on logic
>>
>>122411456
>payed
Fucking idiot.
>>
He purposely targets emotionally unstable preteen girls because he knows they are most likely to become desperate and turn into witches.

He sacrifices the entire planet in one timeline.

His main purpose of this is preventing the heat death of the universe because it directly benefits his own species seeing as that's one of the few things that would mean the end to them.

By whose standards is this not evil?

If humans were advanced and we sacrificed an entire planet of less advanced aliens to push off the heat death of the universe would this really be ethical?
>>
>>122424903
A handful of young girls being sacrificed to stop the death of an entire universe of intelligent life is not a bad trade off.
>>
>>122419709
Poor QB.
He was a good guy all along.
>>
>>122424563
A logical creature should know what a lie by omission is and a logical creature with experience with other life forms knows what's important to them even if it can't comprehend why.

You're not getting out of this by making excuses.
>>
>>122424903
>His main purpose of this is preventing the heat death of the universe because it directly benefits his own species seeing as that's one of the few things that would mean the end to them.
they are but one of many races across the universe that his work is saving.

>If humans were advanced and we sacrificed an entire planet of less advanced aliens to push off the heat death of the universe would this really be ethical?
on a smaller scale, we have enslaved species to slaughter and harvest for our own benefit, it is no different, just on a different scale.

self preservation is not evil in itself, it's in how you do it. if you think one planet is worth the entire universe, you may be able to step up to evil
>>
>>122416304
chaotic means you have a preference to breaking the law or avoiding keeping the law.

lawful means you have a preference to keeping the law or avoiding breaking the law.

Neutral has no preference to law.

Kyubey may have the possibility to change the rules of the universe with his wish-granting, however he has no preference one or another what kind of wish he'll grant, as that is up to the wisher.
>>
>>122415254
>clearly communicate
Explain this thread then
>>
>>122425167
Not him but what about the Wraith verse?
QB didn't say it's impossible now to get enough juice so basically he sacrifices little girls/planet for fast profit while he probably could get his juice without causing so much harm.
>>
>>122425148
Madoka likes Kyubey more than Homura.
>>
>>122413828
>the cause justifies all means
No, fuck off. Not letting people find solace in death is never justifiable. I am made happy by the knowledge that he suffers
>>
>>122425152
>A lie of omission is an intentional failure to tell the truth in a situation requiring disclosure.

who is the arbiter of what MGs should or should not be told? mami and kyoko don't even tell them anything that they know
>>
>>122418876
Watch Rebellion.
>>
>>122425428
So you're going to sacrifice all life in the universe, for one life?
>>
>>122425584
No, not for one life. For one death. You missed my point entirely.
>>
>>122425584
Sounds like the logic of a homufag.

>but it's love!
No it's not.
>>
>>122418876
>and more that the laws of the universe are evil.

How are the Laws of the Universe evil?
>>
>>122425496
>mami and kyoko don't even tell them anything that they know
To be fair Mami, as alone and longing for company as she is does a pretty good job at that. Explains and shows what they have to do as MGs and warns about the dangers. Of course she's not exactly aware of the whole truth too so there's that.
>>
>>122425743
if we're going by the "lie by omission" thing, the little truths that she knows, like the fact the body is nothing but a puppet for the soul gem are still fucking important. if humans fail to understand what is important for humans to know about becoming a MG, how is a hivemind emotionless bastard supposed to?
>>
Kyubey is definitely Lawful Good:
He always asks for permission and never turns a girl into a magical girl against her will.
He never manipulates a magical girl so that her death is meaningless.
He wants to save the universe.
And thanks to him, humans aren't still living in caves.

I think people on /a/ are just too biased in favor of the cute girls instead of feeling sorry for Kyubey, who has to babysit some tweens all day every day.
>>
That's why you read the contract before you agree.
>>
>>122425152
So why should he just roll with it because they find it important? He decides not to lie so he can be fair, but then they just stretch how much he should limit himself with some random goalpost that they find "important"?

Rebellion QB an objective pile of excrements tho
>>
>>122426177
Watch Rebellion first, and then try to tell me there's any good in him
>>
>>122425959
>like the fact the body is nothing but a puppet for the soul gem are still fucking important
Did you watch the series? Because Kyubey explicitly says that Mami never knew about a MG's soul being housed in the soul gem.
>>
>>122426257
Saw Rebellion, he's still Lawful Good.
Hell, he was keeping Homura alive for the entire movie just so that he could find a more advantageous way to save the universe.
>>
>>122426375
>Homu keeps fighting till the end and earns a well-deserved rest
>QB gets in the way of death and ascending to Heaven to make her suffer more
>he's totally ok guys
But wait, there's more! He tries to also force all future magical girls to end in despair rather than in cleansing. And not to save the universe either - only to make things quicker and save himself some work! In other words, QB's objectively a piece of shit.
>>
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>>122426375
Kyubey can't be good because he's sexist against men.
>>
>>122426516
Kyubey helped human progress and witches are much cleaner system for collecting emotional energy than wraiths.
Kyubey wants to save the universe and help humanity reach the stars.
Kyubey is objectively Lawful Good.
>>
>>122426568
>Believes that girls are more of a slave to their emotions than boys
>Sexist against males
MRA please.
>>
>>122426516
There is nothing wrong with torturing Homura. She didn't belong in heaven, Rebellion shows this repeatedly. She'sa legitimate piece of shit.
>>
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>>122426516
> He tries to also force all future magical girls to end in despair rather than in cleansing.

There you go again, thinking Kyubey knows what the fuck you're talking about. All he knows is you're creating plenty of energy being assmad.

>And not to save the universe either - only to make things quicker and save himself some work!

His objective has always been to save the universe from heat death. This does not change in Rebellion.

If there were no suffering witches, there would be practically no energy generated and Kyubey would not have a chance of saving the universe from heat death.

He is not making his work easier, he is simply trying to do his work.

Complementary qt qb
>>
>>122426667
>not actually addressing any of the points connected to Rebellion
>retracing the series
Face it, QB being good is no longer a viable opinion after Rebelion
>>
>>122426667
However, he's also okay with forsaking humanity if it means meeting his quota. He's more Lawful Neutral.
>>
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>>122426667
>and help humanity reach the stars.
If that happens it's not because he did something but because we got lucky.
>>
>>122426771
Is qb a girl or a boy
>>
>>122426775
You're Homurafag, ain't ya?

Trying to have any rational discussion with you about Kyubey's noble motives is kinda pointless.
>>
>>122426877
No.
>>
>>122426877
Yes.
>>
>>122426877
He identifies as male. According to /lgbt/ that's all that matters.
>>
>>122426667
>much cleaner system
Extra power compared to Wraith juice comes from despair of little girls. How is that cleaner?
>>
>>122426855
making sure that there are stars to reach is his end of the bargain, other than the "coincidental" giant boost to technology that happens when MG are introduced
>>
>>122426905
Saving the universe might be noble, but "I wanna do it quickeeer" isn't, you zoophile. Just because you want to fuck him doesn't mean he's decent
>>
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>>122426814
That's a convincing argument for Lawful Neutral.
>>
You guys get too caught up in the magical girls getting depressed and dying and shit.
It doesn't matter how horrible it may seem, they volunteered for the job, they didn't ask questions, and they worry about the most pointless shit.
The only thing qb is guilty of is bad combat designs by putting the soul in a place that can easily be lost.
>>
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>>122427008
>Just because you want to fuck him doesn't mean he's decent
>>
>>122427049
He's also guilty of not caring about the consequences of witches roaming around the planet eating people or letting the most powerful ones destroy the planet.
"It's humanity's problem,"
>>
>>122427008
>impending doom coming
naw no rush, we got time, lets make sure these random aliens I don't care about are a little happier.
>>
>>122426976
>making sure that there are stars to reach is his end of the bargain
There are stars to reach for whom? The Earth is going BOOM in that imeline in a few days.
Also there would be stars anyway. Universe is not going to end in next million years and if we're not off the planet by then we might as well go extinct.
>>
>>122427008
Homurafags, anyone who disagrees with them wants to fuck animals.

You know this isn't a mai waifu thread right?
>>
>>122426814
If the heat death happens, humanity dies anyway.

Might as well make their death meaningful.

Still Lawful Good.

>>122426775
>buttblasted homufags still don't get the qb

Suffering is the best way to create energy.

Thanks for help saving the universe with your frustration :^)
>>
>>122427168
>you're only disagreeing with me because you want to fuck Homu
>no u
>Haha, look at Homufags, they are so pathetic
>>
>>122426814
He'll only forsake humanity if he needs to.

If he needs to forsake humanity to stop the heat death and he doesn't, EVERYTHING dies.

If he needs to forsake humanity to stop the heat death and he does, humanity dies.

It's almost as if there is a good option and a bad option, weird huh?
>>
>>122427183
Lawful Neutral.
All he cares about is his end objective and if that means all of humanity is going to be killed be Kriemhild Gretchen before they reach the stars then he doesn't care.
No Good character would let a sentient species die out like that.
>>
>>122427126
>these random aliens
The same ones that are literally doing all the work?
>>
>Apple-chan gets banned
>people finally start discussing the series
>>
>>122427244
You're only disagreeing with Kyubey because you're a degenerate homufag. Not even Madoka resented Kyubey for what he did, but she does resent Homura.
>>
>>122427502
This picture should make you feel better
>>
>>122427325
Have you heard of Utilitarianism? There's a lot of different ways to do good. Kyubey just has a utilitarian approach.

Lawful Good.
>>
>>122427591
Delusional character degredation based on sick fantasies of love between good and pure evil.
>>
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>>122427502
>Not even Madoka resented Kyubey for what he did
Not him but you should rewatch ep.9 - 10.
Madoka fixed his gathering scheme and made it more humane so she might have acknowledge the necessity but didn't agree with his way to do it.
>>
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>>122427895
>taking homuhater seriously
>>
>>122427695
Letting a sentient species die out and letting thier planet become a wasteland directly because of your own actions isn't Good no matter how you try to rationalize it.
>>
>>122427244
>Kyubey is Evil because he hurt Homura.
Homurafags really are that pathetic.
>>
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>>122427840
But it's cannon
>>
>>122428030
Reading comprehension when?
>>
>>122426951
Would coobie offer a contract to a polynomial questioning genderqueer transwomyn of color?
>>
>>122427951
good is relative and depends entirely on your ethical values. If you're taking a utilitarian approach, you wouldn't want people to die, but if that's the only way to serve the greater good then you have to do it.
Imagine 2 options, you could not harm humans and let everyone (including humans) die, or you could kill off 1 species to save the universe. Which is the "good" choice?
>>
>>122428144
Only if she was born female.
>>
>>122427895
Yes? She didn't resent him. She, however, wants to personally kill Homura for her actual betrayal.

>>122428030
Hurting Homura isn't even wrong. She deserved it, and didn't deserve to be saved.

>>122428051
In Homura's perverted mind. Madoka being congratulatory doesn't equate to friendship. She's altruistic, not scum that would like Homura. I guarentee you Madoka didn't speak to her again after that.
>>
Oh hey, Madoka thread.

Series Kyuubei was neither good or evil, more like a force of nature. Rebellion Kyuubei comes off as evil, although that plot point was pretty contrived.

I've hardly watched any anime in the last three years, anything similar come out in the mean time? As successful as this show was, there's bound to be interesting imitators by now, right? Downloading Yuuki Yuuna currently.
>>
>>122428183
The choice where you save the rest of the humans that aren't dead yet because of the witch who's energy you need.
You know, the actually Good choice.
>>
>>122410142
He made cute girls suffer.
And Madoka teaches us cute girls are more important than the universe
>>
>>122428144
That clusterfuck of mental issues and insecurities sounds like a gold mine for coobs.
>>
>>122428085
You're not denying being a Homurafag and haven't made any arguments against Kyubey being Lawful Good except that he was mean to her.

Guess shitposting just comes naturally to you.

By the way, I'm a Kyokofag not a QBfag.
>>
>>122428355
>haven't made any arguments
Seriously? That's why I asked for reading comprehension. Here, I'll even spoonfeed>>122427008
>Saving the universe might be noble, but "I wanna do it quickeeer" isn't
>>122426516
>He tries to also force all future magical girls to end in despair rather than in cleansing. And not to save the universe either - only to make things quicker and save himself some work!


Also getting in the way of someone's death wouldn't have been ever ok even if it wasn't Homura. Death is the ultimate solace and he even fails to respect something so basic
>>
>>122428215
>She didn't resent him.
Ok, I'm done here.
Seriously, go rewatch the part where QB and Madoka talk (second movie somewhere about 59 minutes mark), look at her reaction. Then watch the part where she asks Homu to save her from him and his tricks (~47 minutes into movie 2).
>>
>>122428215
>Yes? She didn't resent him. She, however, wants to personally kill Homura for her actual betrayal

Is this explicitly mentioned in Rebellion or elsewhere? Maybe I should watch it again.
>>
>>122428483
See >>122427943
>>
>>122428501
It's in a pre-Rebellion interview. The same one where they said that Madoka never loved Homura and only took pity in her. You can find them by browsing homuhater's headcannon. Now can you stop taking the bait?
>>
>>122427153
hey, the humans figured a way to defeat walpurgis, right? that was their challenge, and they succeeded, this time, why are you mad?
>>
>>122428467
Wanting to be more efficient by using witches instead wraiths isn't evil.
>>
>>122428812
No, but neither does it justify abusing other people to achieve it.
>>
>>122428861
>justify
it is efficient, that's how it is justified. more efficient meas more productivity, means more power to preserve the universe for all the other living beings in the universe
>>
>>122428987
Piss off, QB.
>>
>>122429072
give me some good reasons for your argument, and i may
>>
>>122428987
Or they could, you know, spend more time gathering instead? Since in the other universe they had actually reached the quota, it means that even with the small cubes, it should be enough for the quota if they stay there till the first heat death estimate
>>
>>122429108
Shit happens, why risk it?
>>
>>122429099
>and i may
Go away, incubator.
>>
>>122428987
>all the other living beings in the universe
this part was such bullshit.

We are alone in this universe.
>>
>>122429158
>so how do you justify sending countless magical girls into despair?
>Shit happens, why risk it
>>
>>122429108
>be less efficient for "emotions"
you really think that argument affects anyone other than humans?
>>
>>122429184
yeah, and kyuubei is just a magical familiar
>>
>>122429237
Irrelephant, since humans are doing the actual work anyway.
>>
>>122429268
It's probably not even from this fucking dimension.

It just wants our energy because it's a greedy cunt and the saving the universe spiel is complete horseshit.
>>
>>122429327
yes and they have been granted boons of technological advances in addition to a wish for every MG in exchange
>>
>>122429268

Please don't tell me that you believe all that bullshit about entropy and aliens. Kyubey is Mephistopheles.
>>
>>122429208
If it means having a safety net then sure.
At that point you've already screwed them over, a little more isn't that bad.
>>
>>122429376
who knows how the universe truly works, dimensions may be closer than we may imagine. especially with data that flies around the internet. we may even be talking to beings from different dimensions without even knowing it
>>
>>122429438
>in addition to
Watch the series again, it's the wishes themselves that grant the boons

>>122429524
>going insane with despair and living like that for several years is just a little worse than a god giving you nirvana just as you die
QB pls
>>
>>122429605
yes, the boons are not part of the actual girls wishes, but granted in addition to
>>
>>122429678
They are side effects of the wishes, not something QB did
>>
>>122428483
When she became a goddess she learned he wasn't a bad creature. That can't be said for Homura, who she never loved.

>>122428501
The end of Rebellion showed her horror and she tried to become a goddess again to kill her. Urobuchi also said she wanted revenge.
>>
>>122429605
seems like you don't understand the relativism here, you are refering to an immortal universe spanning hivemind without emotions. do you not understand how they think?
>>
>>122429587
That's the kind of shit a stoner would spout to sound deep. I got news for ya tommy chong, you're not going to blow my mind, you're the one on pot.
>>
>>122429713
regardless it is a great benefit only possible through his interaction with MGs
>>
>>122429761
It's still the humans who do the work, so you gotta abide by their rules. Even QB recognised that much
>>
>>122429801
K.
>>
>>122429820
>it's the chinese who do the work, so, Apple has to abide by their laws.
>>
>>122429820
Thats not how it works.
QB supplies the ability to do it, QB gives them reimbursement for the work. The girls are nothing but employees to them, you follow their rules.
>>
>>122429867
So far as paying and work conditions of their chinise slaves are concerned, yes.
>>
>>122429916
There are still rules employers have to follow.
>>
>>122429923
ha, the chinese government is the ones who set the laws, not the chinese people themselves. don't delude yourself. the chinese people have no power
>>
>>122429965
>>122429923
Government and employers support them so people will work for them and not rebel. QB's race has nothing to fear from humans, and there will always be another girl wanting to become a magical girl for a free wish. He has no reason to listen to their needs beyond what he absolutely needs for stopping the death of the universe.
>>
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>>122429992
This has literally nothing to do with the discussion
>>
>>122430040
Abusing others and not granting the workforce conditions based on the workforce's morals is evil. But yes, they can do it.
>>
>>122430051
or maybe your mind doesn't have the ability to wrap around the fact that more powerful beings hold power over the weaker in every interaction, even if it takes place in the weaker's home turf
>>
>>122430114
The thread is about whether QB is good or evil, not about truths about how ugly the world is. Using their power to enforce their own rules is not good.
>>
>>122430235
To be fair, it was established that Kyubey wasn't evil, Homura was and painted him to appear malicious. Kyubey only had one wrong idea and learned his lesson before Homura enslaved him and killed Madoka's heaven.
>>
>>122430235
the original argument is this
>It's still the humans who do the work, so you gotta abide by their rules. Even QB recognised that much

the assumption that QB is evil is the fact that he doesn't "play buy the rules" except this assumes that QB and humans are equal. they are not. QB is part of a hive mind that spans the universe. the universe's laws trump the laws of earth. he does not have to follow quaint traditions of a backwater planet
>>
>>122430388
Homuhater is back to keep this thread alive! Remember to thank him with MadoHomu!
>>
>>122430450
He does, if he wants them to do something for him. Technically, he could force them, but that'd definitely be evil.
>>
>>122430455
Kill yourself for shitting on Madoka.
>>
>>122430512
>He does, if he wants them to do something for him
uh, what do you base this on? humans are equal to everything else in the universe?
>>
>>122430582
They can just decide to not become magical girls. If it's just about abusing them, of course their law triumphs, but if he wants humans to actually go out of their way to act to help him, it has to be on their terms. Of course, he can just take the middle road and manipulate them
>>
>>122430579
If you wanted more, you should have just said so
>>
>>122430826
>it has to be on their terms. Of course, he can just take the middle road and manipulate them
do you really think that he appeared to mami at that specific time, at that specific place, to make an agreement "on her terms"? if you do it right, people will believe that they made decisions on their own terms
>>
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>homufags shitting up another madoka thread

Wow, I can't fucking wait for homufags to shitpost. AGAIN. Jesus Christ those a arrogant fucks think they're so fucking tough by throwing characters' personalities away to justify their fapfiction, what a load of shit.
>>
>>122430865
If Madoka saw this, she would question why someone would draw her like that and call it awful. She would say she thinks Homura is horrible.
>>
>>122430967
But that's evil. It's manipulation and dishonesty no matter how you look at it.
>>
>>122431036
Still want more? You're greedy
>>
>>122431025
Sad, isn't it? But she will be butchered one day, and all will be well.
>>
>>122431043
>no matter how you look at it

calm down
he gave her an option where the only other option is death. live, or die. it wasn't a manipulation just captializing on an incident that had no good outcome without his intervention
>>
>>122431097
Please stop shitting on the characters.
>>
>>122431160
>live
>>
>>122431043
It might be manipulative and note entirely honest, but he's not evil for doing it. It still helps them out.
For example he didn't cause mami to get into an accident, but being there to save her resulted in both of them getting what they want, she got to live, he got a magical girl. Just because she didn't get the full debriefing doesn't mean it wasn't a fair trade.
>>
We cannot judge Kyubey. Our rules don't apply to him.
>>
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>>122431277
Just because their bodies are technically dead does not mean they are actually dead.

They can still move around and interact with the world, they even have souls. I'd say that's good enough to say they are living in one way or another.
>>
>>122431178
>still doing explicitly what will result in more MadoHomu posted
Insatible. This is not what the thread is for, you know? I can't just do an image dump. If you want to see mdhm so much, go to pixiv
>>
>>122431396
You're the one shitposting with the crackest pairing.
>>
>>122431043
if you can prove that QB caused the accident so that he could make an MG, you might have basis to argue that he is evil and manipulative
>>
>>122431332
THis is so ridiculously far from the original point... Look, the idea is that humans have the choice to not help him out. However, so little about them know that QB exists, much less that he's not exactly kind to the liches, that creating things like syndicates for the rights of liches and informing potential girls that they should use their right to refuse to get better working conditions is impossible. So QB is using information control to force them to not search their rights. And that's evil
>>
>>122431463
There's literally no end to your greed. I'm warning you, this is the last one, you'll have to search for more yourself
>>
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>>122410142
Because they're disrupting peace in order to prolong their own race. It's a purely selfish and harmful endeavor.

Now fuck off.
>>
>>122431547
>QB should have created a MG worker's union to manage MG rights or he is evil
am i reading this right?
>>
If Kyubey were collecting energy from orgasms instead of despair no one would complain.
>>
>>122431748
Nah, he should just abide to human rules
>>
>>122431702
>QB's race is the only one that benefits from preventing the collapse of the universe
pls no
>>
File: ALL THE POCKIES.jpg (685KB, 800x800px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
ALL THE POCKIES.jpg
685KB, 800x800px
>>122427385
I miss Apple-chan
>>
>>122431547
All the tricks he pulled could have beenavoided if Homura had empathy. Because she didn't, they kept being placed in horrible situations where Kyubey could maximize his profits. Everything is Homura's fault for being a shit. A friendless, unloved shit.

>>122431596
Madoka canonically hates Homura with endless fury. There, now leave.
>>
>>122431805
Doujinshi when?
>>
>>122431807
>human rules
hah, which human rules?
>>
>>122431866
Read the thread.
>>
>>122431853
There must be some.
>>
>>122431895
humans have no universal rules. or are you trying to say, "muh emotions" or "muh suffering"?
>>
>>122431841
He does attract a lot of shitposters, being a shitposter himself.
I think !HOMU was banned too.
>>
>>122431961
Spoonfeeding again.... It's about how he attempts to cause large amount of additional suffering in Rebellion with the only reason being wanting to be quicker about energy collection, which is incredibly silly and no longer has anything to do with saving the universe, but is rather just to save his personal time.
>>
>>122432108
>implying this thread is about rebellion only
regardless, what rules state that wanting to be more efficient is evil?
>>
>>122432022
They're all circlejerkers who blog. They all also have fallacious like towards Homura. There's definitely a connection there.

>>122432108
I agree wanting to control Madoka was wrong, but he learned his lesson and was being baited by Homura. Madoka knew to forgive him.
>>
>>122431820
Typical incubator-apologist argument. It was already established that the incubators were the only race that survived to see the effects of heat death, and thus traveled back in time in order to harvest energy.
>Benefit
So it's automatically not evil that they've interfered, for the worst, the lives of independent civilizations in order to postpone the heat death? The fuck you talking about?
>>
>>122432391
here's a human law you should know:
survival of the fittest.
it is not evil, just the nature of life. don't hate them because they are strong. that is the mentality of the weak
>>
>>122432391
That reaction image in context is actually her showing disgust at Homura. That post is pretty bad, though.
>>
File: horror.webm (62KB, 704x396px)
horror.webm
62KB, 704x396px
>>122432207
If you really think my post says that, I give up on trying to explain. Also, use capitals.
>>
>>122432634
>Also, use capitals.
no
>>
>>122432524
That's a natural law though.
>>
>>122432524
>human law
God you're dense; apparently you don't know about the Geneva convention either. Just because a country has the ability to colonize or even interfere in foreign affairs doesn't mean they have the moral right to, fucking idiot.

Those who abuse their power and endanger others in order to survive are the weak ones, since they're afraid of their demise, afraid of competition, afraid in general. Actual powerful beings are compassionate, like Madoka. You'll realize this after you grow out of your retarded line of thinking.
Thread posts: 305
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