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Why Asukafags like Asuka? I even can understand Reifags, since

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Why Asukafags like Asuka?

I even can understand Reifags, since Rei is basically the personification of the "ideal waifu". But Asuka is, kinda, the opposite of that ideal.

She is the personification of Anno's fears.
>>
>>121747344
They just like her for her body, that's all.
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>>121747344
>Rei
>ideal waifu

There's nothing there. She isn't interesting.
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>>121747344
How is Rei the personification of the ideal waifu?

It's like you don't want a genki waifu
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>>121747344
They like fapping to her.
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She is human, Rei isn't.

She is a lively young girl with a full personality and smile every time.
Plus: She probably has a pink pussy.
>>
Asuka would force you out of your shell, while with Rei you would continue being a total autist, even with a girl.

And also she has the best body out of all the pilots.
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>>121747690
That's so fucked up, how disgusting
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>>121747795
That's how they manage to self insert as Shinji. And probably why LASfags are so nasty.
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I like Misato and Asuka, cuz they are human.
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>>121747846
>2015

not having the best waifpet
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>>121747846
Excellent taste, anon.
I like Asuka, but a Misato is not bad either.
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>>121747782
Asuka would nuke your shell until nothing is left except for someone who wants to choke her to death. Rei at least cared about Shinji.
>>
THUD THUD THUD


honestly

she has no personality at all, and fucking her wouldn't feel as exciting. She would just stand there giving you this look.
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How to explain love ?
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Yui is a woman who you would destroy the world for.
Rei is a woman who would destroy the world for you.
Misato is a woman who would destroy herself for your world.

Asuka is a woman who would destroy you and the world.
Best girl.
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>>121747344
Daily reminder that everyone who likes Asuka for anything more than body is just beta male brainwashed by SJW to such a degree that even in anime he prefer poser women who pretends to be independent and needs no man.
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>>121747782
>Think in German
One of my favourite lines and scenes in NGE right there.
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>>121748245
>not thinking in German all the time

Dummkopf, tust du überhaupt ?
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>>121748234
But I like Asuka because she is fragile and dependent.
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>>121748444
I w-would hold you, A-asuka-chaaaan
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>>121748392
Uhh... strudel...brautwurst..
>>
>Rei
>lovely personality of a white person
>Asuka
>violent and unpredictable personality of a nigger on a chimpout
They're the equivalent of white women looking for BBC.
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>>121747344
Asuka is the personification of Asukafags themselves.

I'm a narcissist so I like Asuka and the feeling of wanting Asuka to win Shinji is actually the feeling of wanting myself to win.
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I've never cared too much for NGE waifu wars, but I'm of the opinion that Rei is painfully bland and submissive. I know it's intentional, but that's not something I find attractive. Asuka and Misato have more going for them, and the doughnut steel pilot from the rebuilds is cancer.
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>>121748557
>>>/pol/
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>>121748392
>Dummkopf, tust du überhaupt ?
As a Kraut, this triggered me.
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>>121748164

>would destroy you and the world
>would destroy the world for you

either of those options, got your lady right here.
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>>121748659
Just have a Bratwurst with Currysoße
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>>121749026
It's called Currywurst, Volldepp!
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>>121749133
No shit. Do you think I don't know that ? But Currywurst does not sound German enough. The Soße is the important part.
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>>121748392

frauline fressen mein scheisser
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I went over my best friend's house where I talked about how awesome Neon Genesis Evangelion was. He asked me who my favorite character is, and of course I answered it was Asuka Langley Sohryu. He said, "You know I have the same hairstyle as her." I told him yeah, he sure did. He looked like a total girl, and I suggested he get a man's haircut. After we both laughed at his girly hairdo, he then said, "You know with a little work, I could actually look like Asuka for you." I thought, what the fuck? Why would he say that? But he just kept going. "Yeah, I could dye my hair, cosplay, call you 'Anata baka,' and... I could pretend to be Asuka for you, if you wanted me to."

Holy shit, he totally looked like Asuka too. I didn't know what to think. We just stopped talking right then and there. I wanted to get out of there quick. He's a guy, dammit. After what seemed like hours, he chuckled girlishly and said, "Yeah. That was pretty gay." He went to the couch and we watched TV silently. I don't even remember what was on. Before I knew it, my body was moving on its own, and I had my arms around him, my hand perfectly fitting his. He blushed and smiled the cutest smile I've ever seen. Then I lost it, pulled his pants and boxers down, lifted him on top of me, and ravaged him right then and there right in front of the TV. Let me tell you, he felt better than a girl.

Pic related. It's him dressed as Asuka.
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>>121750297
if only this was real
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>>121747344
Asuka a bitch but the body game to strong

Rei a boring

Misato is the best
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>>121747748
>ginger/redhead
>human
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>>121747344
Unlike Rei, Asuka is proactive. She seeks out Shinji, approaches him, engages him in dialogue. Asuka is thus more likely to appeal to passive individuals. I mean, how to Reifags imagine interacting with Rei? They'd have to approach her on their own, otherwise interaction wouldn't happen.
Asukafags have a low self-esteem, they fear that due to their shortcomings they're unworthy of being liked. Asuka spelling their own shortcomings out that are embodied in Shinji, giving Shinji shit for how spineless and unmanly he is and thus clearly acknowledging what's wrong with him, yet still not giving up on him, has a cathartic component. Through Asuka liking Shinji despite his shortcomings, they're given the impression that Asuka could like them as well - despite their shortcomings.
People often mistake this with masochism, but I don't believe that it is all that masochistic at all. When Asuka insults Shinji, and through Shinji the viewer, the Asukafag doesn't see insults, he only sees his own self-image reflected back at him. People who aren't Asukafags only hear insults, it doesn't work on them.
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>>121747344
Is there a secret option D where I'd go for a girl who isn't batshit and overly-dependent, a board, or a used-up slut?

There's probably other women Shinji could have gone for as he grew older, if shit didn't hit the fan. He is a pilot of one of the machines that saved the world, after all. Just say fuck you to Asuka and Rei. Getting a nice girl without either shit personality is better.
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>>121747965
It's been proved that she's not insensitive down there, so it'd be fun to experimenting on her reactions.
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>>121747344
Asuka isn't the opposite of that ideal. She's insecure, needy and desperate inside. Asukafags like the idea of "saving her" and also her tsundere nature.
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>>121752761
>Asukafags like the idea of "saving her"
I'm not too certain about that. I don't think most Asukafags think of themselves highly enough to believe they were capable of saving anyone.
>>
Asuka a shit
Rei a shit
Literally every character in NGE is shit, they're supposed to be shit
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>>121748557

Last time I checked, Asuka was the (mostly)white one and Rei isn't even fully human.
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>>121747344
Because ironically Asuka is the superior waifu, albeit not the superior person or character.

Having a waifu means you get yourself a surrogate girl/boyfriend of sorts. This character is someone you can't touch but only admire at a distance, and everyone else can do so at the same time. Everyone has their opinion on Asuka which may or may not hurt the Asukafag's own view and waifudom.

Like any relationship really, asukafags want theirs to be safe. They want it to feel secure, for it to be enjoyable.

This is what Asuka can guarantee them to some degree. Regardless of Asuka's status as a dumb bitch (Asukafags ignore that in favor of their own fantasy asuka), Asuka is always guaranteed to come out of any official Evangelion-story well because the writers also happen to be Asukafags.

That's what happens when the core writing team of a story has influence to adapt the story to their own waifu-related wishes. Put any other Asukafag in there, and you'd get bias.

This bias is the sole thing that has kept Asukafag fandom afloat for 20 years, whether or not they consciously realize as the effects are always the same regardless.

Therefore Asuka is the superior waifu, especially compared to Rei who is guaranteed to be tied up with trauma and severe degradation in all future Evangelion works at some points.
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>>121748164
Nope.

Asuka is a girl who would destroy herself and ignore the world for petty reasons.
Canonically what happened in NGE.
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>>121753327
asshurt Reifag detected
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>>121753393
>reifag
>saying asuka is the superior waifu
Now I've heard everything.
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>>121753426
He knows his place.
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>>121753393
Asshurt Asukafag detected.
Looks like I hit the nail straight on.
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>>121753327
>Finishes college at a ridiculously young age
>Dumb

Brash, irrational, and hot headed, sure, but calling Asuka (or anyone in NGE) an idiot is patently false.
>>
Asuka thread?
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>>121752941
>Implying NGE characters aren't ridiculously relatable
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>>121753486
It's not false, she acts like an idiot, and is dumb. Even intelligent people can do that, and it's also worth noting that graduating college at a young age doesn't guarantee their intelligence either.

Then finishing college at a "ridiculously young age" doesn't mean anything because we don't know what kind of college it is, or what the terms of graduation are. In NGE and Rebuild it's only ever suggested (by anyone else than an authority) for instance, not made absolute.

If you take the character seriously, you'd recognize it as a moe trait and nothing more. A character is only shown as intelligent through their actions, not semi-implied half-statements like in NGE. It's common for Mari-Sue esque characters for instance that they imply a bunch of credentials or attributes where the fans can "imagine" and fill the gap in the character with their own desires.
That's all Asuka's college graduation amounts to.

As a character she's quite the dumb bitch. EVA's characters are deeply flawed, which is why they're good. Asuka's failures takes precedence over wish-fulfillment nonsense like that.
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>>121747344
Rei is a husk. She is boring. There is nothing ideal about her.

Asuka is a normal person. She comes with good and bad which is what you have to except if you want a real person. As long as the bad isn't gobbling other dudes cocks, you should be able to accept this. You can't, however, so you seek ideals in anime girls. That is why you are a reifag.
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>>121753726
>Finishing college at 7 isn't shit, we don't know if it was Harvard or not.

lol ok Mr. Smarty Pants
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>>121752391
>>121752897
So, Shinji is Asukafag?
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>>121747344
>Rei is basically the personification of the "ideal waifu"
Do people ever actually watch the show? Rei is meant to be unnerving, she doesn't act like a person. She's in the body of a pubescent girl but she doesn't have any semblance of sexuality.It's not that she's sheltered and that she needs self insert-kun to awaken it in her, she just doesn't have one, Shinji falls on her while she's naked and she just asks him to get off. A very basic thing that all humans have is just missing in her. Hell, her name means "Zero".

People who think of her as a "waifu" are just substituting her personality with one more to their liking. They don't like the character, they just like the character design. Or alternatively they like the Manga/Rebuild version of Rei, who is considerably more standard as far as anime/manga tropes go.

Still, as afar as NGE goes, Rei is not the personification of the "ideal waifu". Rei is the personification of the uncanny valley.

Oh and before I get called an Asukafag or whatever, I really fucking like the NGE Rei as a character, I think she's really interesting. But she is not a character who could have any sort of romantic interest or involvement.
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I went over my best friend's house where I talked about how awesome Neon Genesis Evangelion was. He asked me who my favorite character is, and of course I answered it was Asuka Langley Sohryu. He said, "You know I have the same hairstyle as her." I told him yeah, he sure did. He looked like a total girl, and I suggested he get a man's haircut. After we both laughed at his girly hairdo, he then said, "You know with a little work, I could actually look like Asuka for you." I thought, what the fuck? Why would he say that? But he just kept going. "Yeah, I could dye my hair, cosplay, call you 'Anata baka,' and... I could pretend to be Asuka for you, if you wanted me to."

Holy shit, he totally looked like Asuka too. I didn't know what to think. We just stopped talking right then and there. I wanted to get out of there quick. He's a guy, dammit. After what seemed like hours, he chuckled girlishly and said, "Yeah. That was pretty gay." He went to the couch and we watched TV silently. I don't even remember what was on. Before I knew it, my body was moving on its own, and I had my arms around him, my hand perfectly fitting his. He blushed and smiled the cutest smile I've ever seen. Then I lost it, pulled his pants and boxers down, lifted him on top of me, and ravaged him right then and there right in front of the TV. Let me tell you, he felt better than a girl.

Pic related. It's him dressed as Asuka.
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>>121753794
It could be a college for retarded pants.

The real world is more complex than graduating moe colleges.
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>>121753919

Bullshit. Rei is the Eternally Feminine, she's basically the incarnation of pure yin. And a mother of all life on Earth at that.
>>
I find the whole idea of a NGE waifu to be stupid. They are made to show how unnatural a girl like that would be, not be waifu food.

Rei is a blowup doll. You would end up being tired because she is like a dead weight you are dragging around
Asuka is completely fucked in the head. Would chomp your dick off in one moment and be a sobbing husk of a human the next.
Misato is somewhat better since she had more time to grow up but under pressure she cracks up all the same and is an alcoholic

You should pity them and get them mental help, not stick your dick in them.
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>>121753919
I was agreeing until
>People who think of her as a "waifu" are just substituting her personality with one more to their liking. They don't like the character, they just like the character design.

Because that's something that's clearly not true. Rei's personality is distinctly unique as you said earlier, and that's attractive. I think that because Rei scares you a bit, she's different you must think other people also think that way. Believe it or not, some find that interesting and attractive.

Which can even prove. If it was just the character design or the Rebuild versions of Rei that was interesting, then clearly those versions of Rei would be more popular or at all popular. But they aren't, are they?
Rei Q is nearly universally forgotten by the entire fanbase and almost loathed by the most vocal of the Rei fans, and manga Rei is strictly inferior to NGE Rei as response and polls prove on a more or less global scale.

I don't see why you'd be an Asukafag for writing that post, it's just that you're very mistaken about the character. It's your own point of view that needs to change, as it doesn't match up with reality.
Even the last part isn't true either, but it's a minor point really.
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>>121748164
Damn it
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>>121753919
See >>121753327

You've got some good points in the beginning but the rest is just flat out wrong. The fanbase that picks the character by ignoring personality and inserting their own can't be Reifags, it's Asukafags. Asuka with a different personality is still "asuka" and gets even more attention, but Rei actually gets LESS if she doesn't have the same or an equally well-built personality.

Even the manga/2.0 variants of Rei were less popular than the original, but Asuka on the other hand ended up more popular than her original variant.

Point is that you wouldn't want to replace Rei's personality, you'd just want it to grow instead. With Asuka a total replacement is fine as long as she' sexually attractive and safe from an otaku perspective as wish-fulfillment, this going for both women and men.
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>>121753522
They are incredibly relatable, doesn't mean they're not pretty shit people.
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>>121752657
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Asuka's problems remind them of their own

It's self destructive narcissism, they don't want to save her or be saved by her they want to cling to one another as they spiral towards destruction
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>>121753762
>Rei is a husk.
>There is nothing ideal about her.
>Asuka is a normal person.

This is what makes her perfect waifu, she is not a normal person. She doesn't act like normal girlfriend, e.g. she wouldn't want all of your attention, money, wouldn't get mad without a good reason or insult you when you did something wrong.
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>>121754249
>Point is that you wouldn't want to replace Rei's personality, you'd just want it to grow instead.

This mentality of expecting Rei to grow is what I mean when I say people want to replace her personalty. They think of her as some shy girl who's going to come out her shell or something.

Rei. Is. Not. Human.

She has no sexuality. Her sex organs do not function. Her biological body is probably about 5 years old.

She is the soul of something completely inhuman stuck inside a human shell and trying to figure out how all this shit works.

And guess what, at the end of the series she does grow, she grows into something entirely inhuman, now both in flesh and soul. That was what she was always meant to be. Saying that Rei is your waifu is like saying that Cthulu is your waifu.
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>>121747344
Shinji is a faggot who cry during combats and who want to resignate every episodes.
Rei is a drone.
And then asuka appears (ep 6 I don't remember) she love fighting she want to be the best, a good character.

I watched "gurren lagann" before NGE, perhaps this is the reason why I prefer her.
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>>121754616
Normal girlfriends don't act like that, mine never did anyway.
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>>121747344
anta baka wahad.
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>>121754629

Is the giant decapitated Rei head edible?
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>>121754630
pretty nice, i like the quotes
7/10
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>>121754629
>Not having an eldritch abomination as you're waifu
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>>121754629
>This mentality of expecting Rei to grow is what I mean when I say people want to replace her personalty. They think of her as some shy girl who's going to come out her shell or something.
I doubt anyone thinks he's shy, but that is clearly not the same thing as replacing her personality. It's a good trait to be able to improve upon yourself. Not just for people you interact with, but for yourself.
Then Rei is coming out of her little shell in NGE, little by little, so aren't you complaining about the character's personality? What's wrong with doing that?

>Rei. Is. Not. Human.
Sounds a little bit xenophobic there to me pal. So what if she isn't? She's human enough, and arguably on a moral scale she's a good "human" too. Isn't it a bit narrowminded to treat this as a negative? The point it's supposed to make is that non-human characters are also capable of good and personal value.

>She has no sexuality. Her sex organs do not function.
Whoah. That's a little bit far and something we can't exactly prove either. Why are you at all caring that her sex organs function anyway? Are people born sterile or whatever somehow less worth than other people, or even uninteresting? Maybe if sex is all you value a person by, but that means you're very narrowminded and outright simple.

>She is the soul of something completely inhuman stuck inside a human shell and trying to figure out how all this shit works.
Which makes her - compared to the person standing next to her - extremely interesting. It makes everything else seem boring in comparison.

>she grows into something entirely inhuman, now both in flesh and soul. That was what she was always meant to be.
You misunderstood the character I see. Rei explicitly asserts that she is herself first.

>Saying that Rei is your waifu is like saying that Cthulu is your waifu.
You won't want Cthulu as your mate or even friend? Why settle for human when you can get a god?
Better on his good side than his bad side.
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>>121747344
cause she's german
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>>121754616
This is why I think Asukafags are lonely, beta cucks or similar. They have this perception that women are supposed to be bitchy, supposed to be whores, supposed to be dumb sluts who only want your money and attention, and just exist to get mad at you and then reject you.

Why on earth do you think that, Asukafags?
Women are people too, you know. Nice, beautiful people who isn't at all anything like you say, they're capable of every good you are and more. I have to chalk it down to your own lacking experience with women for you to say this.

Maybe because Asukafags are beta and Reifags are less beta, they see women as unreachable while Reifags see women as approachable. Rei doesn't feel real to Asukafags because they get rejected and alienated by women in real life, while Reifags are better at approaching them and feel acceptance instead. Rei is closer to home for Reifags while Asuka is closer to an Asukafag's experience of women.

Not that bitches and whores don't exist, but so do douchebags and faggots, which the asukafag is apparently likely to be.
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>>121747344
Asuka is perfect daughteru material, I want to take care of her and help her have a good and healthy life, plus she is fun and has "interesting" problems.
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>>121748677
Mah nigga
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>>121754960
Mommy-problems aren't interesting. It's only an excuse for them to bitch about their lives while never having to face reality because they blame their parents.

Literally nothing worse than "WAAH MOMMY DIDNT LOVE ME"
no wonder she didn't cause you're a dumb bitch
>>
>>121747344
>She is the personification of Anno's fears.
You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Have you even watched Evangelion?
>>
Sure she a bitch

but she a bitch that Eva deserves
>>
>>121755009
Anon you're a very stupid person if you think those was he ronly issues or if that is how you think the show boarded that specific one, just commenting anyway I'm not here to follow along in your fagposting.
>>
>>121755194
It really is just mommy-problems, EoE practically solves them by saying "hey, mommy loved ya after all" and then she does the EVA-variant of super-sayan or something.

Sure, she's still insecure and all that, but you know what? That is so much less interesting than even the mommy problems.
>>
>>121747344
>I even can understand Reifags, since Rei is basically the personification of the "ideal waifu". But Asuka is, kinda, the opposite of that ideal.

To understand Asuka is to recognize her as a foil to Rei, and as a collective call-out to the idealization of the otaku community.

Asuka has many flaws, and is not meant to be appealing to everyone. On the other hand, she is human, and she suffers and fails both on the surface and in a romantic sense.

Although Shinji and Asuka are appealing to one another at some level, the overall complexity of the situation around them, and the emotional baggage which steadily creeps into the scene, drives them apart more than could ever realistically be conquered by their desires and any defiance they might hold to the current system.

While Shinji and Rei could actually be a pair in this scenario, and one which the viewer could self-insert, it requires Rei to be emotionally unsubstantial, essential soulless, to the point where even her existence is unnatural, inhuman, and reproducible.

Most people tend to love the extreme tsundere presented by Asuka, but I feel like they too fail to consider Asuka as an entire character, who really needs someone in which to confide and help work through her rotting emotional and mental well-being rather than a lover.

I don't find Evangelion to be a show for waifus, and that it is better to approach objectively, like one would do for Serial Experiments Lain. I don't like the rebuilds, though, so there is that.
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>>121754951
Not him but this is something I have not been thinking before.
My waifu is not Rei, but she is reserved and introvert too, so I think I can relate.
I don't have any self-esteem issues, I'm self-confident and I'm feeling ready to approach my waifu and try my best to make her enough comfortable that she would open to me.
But, my friends who really likes tsunderes(usually including Asuka) are rather reclusive and shy.
This is really counterintuitive, but it seems to be true.
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>>121755397
I think you fail as much as them really. Because you've just considered a very multifaceted set of characters from one angle, that of coupling and shipping.
You're actually worse than those who like Asuka for a genuine simple trait (tsundere), because you'd easily twist the meaning of the characters to better suit your scenario, making you that much more toxic and if I have to say it, dangerous to the community and it's well-being.

The result is that you're fairly wrong about what Rei and Asuka is, which is contextually not something that fits what Evangelion was in the 90's and what the otaku community is.
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>>121754850
Look mate, if you want a moon sized onmnipotent god being who's mere existence dissolves your ego barrier and reduces you to a puddle of tang as your waifu more power to you. My point was that most people who are obsessed with Rei, at least that I've seen don't even take most her character into account. They think of her as a sheltered/unique human, rather than something entirely alien that just happens to be in the form of a girl.

I harp on sexuality so much because sexuality is a HUGE part of relationships. And I don't mean just sex, I mean every kiss, cuddle, flirtatious glance, secret smile from across the room, etc... things big and small that every couple on earth takes for granted, would be missing from a relationship with Rei. Kissing her would be like kissing a corpse, and it would never get better. she could understand the reason behind a kiss, but she could never have that spark, have that shiver down her spine or any of those warm little biological quirks that make human sexuality exciting.

>Rei explicitly asserts that she is herself first.

Really not sure exactly how this was relevant. She asserts herself but she still becomes something entirely inhuman, or should I say, reveals herself to be entirely inhuman.

>You misunderstood the character I see.

Could you stand to be just a little less condescending?
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>>121747344
I´m no Asukafag, but I like that she´s written to be dislikeable. You don´t see that very often.
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>>121747344
Beneath her bitchy exterior and under her layers of trauma, she's the only person in the series who actually cares about Shinji. Rei isn't human enough to count. Misato pities him, but that isn't the same.

She cares. That makes all the difference.
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>>121755543
That anon used romantic interest as a way to explore characters in a unique and relevant way. In no way did he suggest that shipping is the most important part of their characters.
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>>121755543
>I think you fail as much as them really. Because you've just considered a very multifaceted set of characters from one angle, that of coupling and shipping.

I approached it from that one angle because I was countering the quoted line from the OP.

>You're actually worse than those who like Asuka for a genuine simple trait (tsundere), because you'd easily twist the meaning of the characters to better suit your scenario, making you that much more toxic and if I have to say it, dangerous to the community and it's well-being.

That's a valid complaint, since rumination often leads one astray of the blatantly obvious. However, I do not see how someone's faulty interpretation of events leads to an infection of the community, unless the thoughts gain a following.

>The result is that you're fairly wrong about what Rei and Asuka is, which is contextually not something that fits what Evangelion was in the 90's and what the otaku community is.

I may very well be wrong, but I cannot see the manner in which I am wrong. In fact, I thought I was going to be called out for parroting a popular interpretation of the work, as I have heard similar thoughts to mine from many different sources over time.

By any chance can expound on "what Evangelion was in the 90's and what the otaku community is" ?
>>
Now I'm not an Asukafag, but from a writing perspective, she is a good, strong character.
She has strong personality traits that set her apart from other characters, and there are reasons she has those traits, and they are explained.
She has a specific goal in mind, and she has motivations for seeking that goal, and they are well explained.

I don't however think that her personality is desirable, or healthy for a relationship, if she were real I would find her very unlikable and I'd not want to be around her at all.
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>>121755687
>Look mate, if you want a moon sized onmnipotent god being who's mere existence dissolves your ego barrier and reduces you to a puddle of tang as your waifu more power to you.
While that was my point, (the "more power to you" bit), you're exaggerating what Rei's existence there is.

>My point was that most people who are obsessed with Rei, at least that I've seen don't even take most her character into account.
In my experience, they're the only ones that really do. You account for instance isn't very accurate and you're by my guesstimates not obsessed with the character.

>I harp on sexuality so much because sexuality is a HUGE part of relationships. And I don't mean just sex, I mean every kiss, cuddle, flirtatious glance, secret smile from across the room, etc... things big and small that every couple on earth takes for granted, would be missing from a relationship with Rei.
Now this is where I bring you down and back to reality, where I would make clear that such things are exempt from all characters in Evangelion for one simple reason: they are not real.
Therefore what you have there is merely a simple obsession with sex.

If you want to forget that boundary and cross into imagination, even then you'd be wrong I believe. Why wouldn't Rei understand the reasons behind a kiss, or never have that spark? If Rei showed us anything it's that emotionally she's capable of growing and understanding. There is a disconnect between emotion and expression, which is the point Rei serves to show you.

>Could you stand to be just a little less condescending?
I believe you're being condescending towards an entire group you don't know, and that you do deserve my honest opinion that you misunderstood. I only say you do because I can and have earlier shown you why you've misunderstood.

>Really not sure exactly how this was relevant.
Because at this point, Rei proves that she isn't meant to be anything else than what she asserts. She is free. More power to her.
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The lonely tears and projection in this thread are seriously making me sick. Anno must be fucking laughing at you.
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>>121750297
>>121753967
Nice duplicate
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>>121754951
I don't think you get Asukafags. Refer to >>121752391.

What you and many other Reifags perceive as a negative trait, is in a fact a positive trait in the eyes of an Asukafag. What a Reifag perceives as an insult is perceived as a personal address by an Asukafag.
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>>121747344
I was exactly like asuka when I watched NGE, minus the general bitchyness.
So yeah, people see themselves in her.
It's the whole "I need to be the best because that's the only way for me to prove myself to others and when other people are better than me in even the smallest thing I fall into coma."
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>>121755758
>In no way did he suggest that shipping is the most important part of their characters.
By mentioning it as the only reason, he does.
Because that reason is also demonstrably false as the show itself is not concerned with making couples, his point is also entirely lost.

>>121755845
>I approached it from that one angle because I was countering the quoted line from the OP.
Having a waifu or being a reifag/asukafag doesn't tie into shipping like you would suggest. See above.

>However, I do not see how someone's faulty interpretation of events leads to an infection of the community, unless the thoughts gain a following.
You realize you more or less explained indirectly why it would infect a community? To gain a following, infection, quite similar isn't it? People want to believe something that benefits them, all you need to do is to spread your disease and infection will follow. Write a wiki, write a recommendation list, write a fanfic, that's what you do. Post on 4chan even. It's not just one person that does this, but thousands.

>In fact, I thought I was going to be called out for parroting a popular interpretation of the work, as I have heard similar thoughts to mine from many different sources over time.
Mhm. Refer to the apart above.

Evangelion in the 90's came out as an original anime without the support or expectations any of it's spinoffs would receive today by day one. The anime otaku community back then are used to entirely different things than today, which would be feisty girls with slapstick humour added on top for great effect. It's the bread and butter of anime.
The otaku community and anime had to change to adopt much of what Evangelion brought with it, and Rei was one of those things - there was something created from nothing, the archetype nearly sprung into existence and the character could not have been an emulation of existing tropes. Asuka on the other hand, was on the literal level just that considering her backstory.
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>>121756176
>By mentioning it as the only reason, he does.

No, he doesn't. I would agree with you if he had wrote a 3000 word essay about Asuka's character and her thematic and symbolic significance, but this is a 50 or so word text post. You can't make assumptions like that off of such small statements.
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>>121756143
I don't think so. If you see how Asuka fans generally refer to their character, it's always a version which completely denies the original character by removing those uncomfortable parts.
The popularity of non-original Asuka's is particularly interesting to prove this point because as a rule, they are always rewritten as nicer, stronger person than the original was.

In short, Asuka fans base their fandom on denying the original Asuka in favor of a fantasy one. The traits you speak of are only factored out of the individual interpretation the asuka fan has of Asuka, and only brought up to use as "waifu cred" like you do right there.

It's a little bit like doublespeak, you claim Asuka is flawed but once the flaws are expounded upon they are quickly denied or hated. It is a little bit nightmarish because it alludes to the scenario of self-delusion present in 1984 (hence doublespeak), as the Asuka fan's defense of newer, edited and more boosted versions of Asuka is "Asuka was always this strong". Just like we were always at war with Oceania.
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>>121747344
- The taming of the beast. They think of themselves as some sort of superior alpha male that could easily get through the tsun barrier, when in reality they would be getting slapped even harder than Toji and Kensuke.

- They're incredibly boring/quiet/shy people, so they need someone to spoonfed them their flaws. They like the idea of constantly being bossed around.

- They just like the character design.

The saddest part is when Asukafags start crying out "muh real human bean with emotions and shit", as if an actual 3DPD woman would behave like that.

Now, before anyone starts with the epik "assmad Reifag detected" greentext. No, I'm not a Reifag. I think the idea of labeling yourself as a *fag is fucking retarded. I love how all the characters in NGE were written, but that's the end of it. I don't go around telling people "no dude listen, this is why my favourite character is better than yours!".
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>>121756307
>No, he doesn't.
This isnt' something you can debate. He quite clearly mentions only shipping and a hypothetical 3000-word essay written by him doesn't.

You have 2000 characters on each 4chan post and he chose to spend them on shipping. If anything it just tells us more about what his focus is.
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>>121756343
>I don't think so. If you see how Asuka fans generally refer to their character, it's always a version which completely denies the original character by removing those uncomfortable parts.
The Asuka with the "uncomfortable parts" is what they got attracted to in the first place though.

>The traits you speak of are only factored out of the individual interpretation the asuka fan has of Asuka
No, I don't think so. Asuka without the tsun-tsun wouldn't be Asuka.

>It's a little bit like doublespeak, you claim Asuka is flawed but once the flaws are expounded upon they are quickly denied or hated.
Again: what you perceive as flaws isn't perceived as flaws in the eyes of the Asukafag.
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>>121756385
>You have 2000 characters on each 4chan post and he chose to spend them on shipping. If anything it just tells us more about what his focus is.

Are you fucking serious? To base someone's entire perception of a work on a 50 word post they made in a few minutes on 4chan to respond to another specific comment is utterly ridiculous. That's like seeing someone eating toast and butter for breakfast and therefore concluding that they eat only toast and butter for every meal.
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>>121750297
I'm sure you meant
> Pic related. It's him dressed as Asuka.
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>>121755944
Well this is going nowhere fast. I think we could do this all night but I don't think either of us would gain anything from it. So I'm going to bed, good night and enjoy your cartoons everybody.
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>>121756380
>They think of themselves as some sort of superior alpha male that could easily get through the tsun barrier
I don't think that applies to Asukafags. Misatofags or Reifags are more likely to see themselves as alpha. The fact that they consider Asuka's behaviour as insulting alone betrays a high self-esteem.

>- They're incredibly boring/quiet/shy people, so they need someone to spoonfed them their flaws. They like the idea of constantly being bossed around.
This is a lot more characteristic of Asukafags.

>No, I'm not a Reifag. I think the idea of labeling yourself as a *fag is fucking retarded. I love how all the characters in NGE were written, but that's the end of it.
Yes, you're a cancerous retard who should probably get back to ANN.
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>>121756498
It's not ridiculous, in the same vein as a freudian slip nothing can be more telling than the unconscious immediate and unsuspecting reaction. Unlike eating breakfast as routine, this is spontaneous and reveals his own thoughts that are, arguably wrong as NGE doesn't really work hard to make couplings and has more focus on the individual than just that.

Either way his point isn't accurate, or even right.
>>
Is it just me or is this thread like an animal show?
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>>121756546
Good night, but do think about what I said concerning the sex, emotions and Rei. It's clearly wrong to say Rei can't appreciate thoughtfulness, kindness as well as tenderness when she does just that in NGE, if anything it has an exaggerated effect because she's never really had any.
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>>121756556
I don't even know what ANN is.
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>>121756460
>The Asuka with the "uncomfortable parts" is what they got attracted to in the first place though.
I don't think so, as it is so often denied and looked aside. The aesthetic, tsundere and sex-appeal overshadows the actual character. Which leads to this:

>No, I don't think so. Asuka without the tsun-tsun wouldn't be Asuka.
Case in point, it's not just tsun-tsun, it's a whole lot of fucked up problems which leads to her trying to kill herself in a bathtub and to go catatonic and crazy in the series, this being how her original character ends in the anime. Referring to this as tsun-tsun is hardly acknowledging the real character. Because the real character of Asuka in comparison with Rei, made itself more inaccessible emotionally and practically in terms of getting over their own problems. Rei is not an ideal partner but she has the basics, the drive to improve on herself that Asuka lacks.

>Again: what you perceive as flaws isn't perceived as flaws in the eyes of the Asukafag.
That would make them rather crazy or as I said: nearly entirely ignoring the actual character that is laden with flaws, insecurities and whatnot that can't be brushed away.
It's not that they don't consider them flaws, they refuse to at all consider the terribleness of the character's mental and emotional state.
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>>121756589
Regardless of the validity of his statements, nothing that he says actually suggests that he thinks couplings are the most important part of NGE. He simply chose that as the angle to approach this particular question from. That does not suggest any sort of Freudian slip or anything of the sort. Had a general question been asked about NGE and the response was from a shipping angle, it would be more reasonable to assume such a thing.

Also, I think you're wrong in thinking that couplings are irrelevant in NGE but that's another issue entirely.
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>>121756792
My point is that it forms the more important part of his argument. He chose an angle that would be impossible to chose (as it isn't really there in NGE) unless there is an exaggerated focus on it like I suggested.

Couplings are irrelevant in NGE as far as the characters on this level are concerned, they only become relevant as the only relevant thing later spinoffs.
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>>121756927
OK, so you see the entirety of his argument as being flawed because you don't see romantic interest as being a legitimate argument in NGE. I suppose that's fair (though I disagree with you), but its still no grounds to accuse him of being a shipfag or drawing conclusions on his whole impression of the series.
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>>121756767
>it's not just tsun-tsun, it's a whole lot of fucked up problems which leads to her trying to kill herself in a bathtub and to go catatonic and crazy in the series
This is less an aspect of her personality itself but more a consequence of how she copes with the events happening around her. Asuka is not a character whose personality is that of a girl who kills herself in a bathtub. Her character is most of all characterised by her inferiority complex which expresses itself normally in her tsun-tsun behaviour. Asukafags don't deny that personality at all.

>Rei is not an ideal partner but she has the basics, the drive to improve on herself that Asuka lacks.
I don't think people want an "improved" Asuka.

>That would make them rather crazy or as I said: nearly entirely ignoring the actual character that is laden with flaws, insecurities and whatnot that can't be brushed away.
Did you read >>121752391? There it is perfectly explained why said flaws aren't perceived as flaws. Again: people don't brush away anything of that, they appreciate the character because of it. That is the very opposite of brushing the flaws away, it is full-hearted acceptance of them.
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>>121756632
>t's clearly wrong to say Rei can't appreciate thoughtfulness, kindness as well as tenderness when she does just that in NGE

Ya reeling me back in mate!. I didn't say that, seriously read my post, I said she could understand but lacked the biology or human context to actually reciprocate in human/waifu-ish way. seriously you replaced my argument with one more to you're liking.

Also thanks for the internet psycho analysis, sure my boyfriend will be surprised to find out i have an obsession with sex.

And now I really am out! for real this time.
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>>121757017
>I said she could understand but lacked the biology or human context to actually reciprocate in human/waifu-ish way. seriously you replaced my argument with one more to you're liking.
I don't think so since this is more or less the same. The human context is there as shown, the reactions are human despite Rei not being human, thus the proof is made concerning abhuman figures.

Rei is like you suggest less sexual, but how is this something negative for anyone but those who puts sex on top of some list of importance regarding characters? Sleep now
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>>121757015
You know, this is getting quite surreal. Asuka literally does attempt to kill herslef in a bathtub and go catatonic, yet this is somehow unrelated to her personality?
>Asuka is not a character whose personality is that of a girl who kills herself in a bathtub.
which only semi-true because someone got there in time to prevent it.

This is becoming eerily very much like I suggested, you really are ignoring the character and inserting a fantasy version where there are no flaws just tsun-tsun.

You're denying that very personality yourself, and if your'e an Asukafag yourself you've fulfilled the very example of what makes you lose this argument entirely.
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>>121757105
>Rei is like you suggest less sexual, but how is this something negative for anyone but those who puts sex on top of some list of importance regarding characters?

You don't need to be concerned only about sex to care about sexual aspects in a relationship, or even to consider them as highly important.

Also I'm a different anon, just to clarify.
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>>121757002
>OK, so you see the entirety of his argument as being flawed because you don't see romantic interest as being a legitimate argument in NGE
It isn't, and if you think so you're seriously a shipfag. It's the quintessential essence in being a shipfag, placing value on the characters potential as romantic interests rather than as individual characters in an overall story. Because this is completely subjective it's one hundred percent nearly an argument of wish fulfillment.
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>>121757219
You do need to do so if you're considering it for a fictional character, who literally doesn't exist and could never reciprocate physically or sexually in any way whatsoever.

If you care for sexual aspects in relationship, there's nothing stopping you in having a good time with Rei were you and she so inclined. Rei wants to become one with Ikari-kun after all, and likes to top if EoE is any indication.
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>this thread
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>>121757246
>placing value on the characters potential as romantic interests rather than as individual characters in an overall story

Those two aren't mutually exclusive. Although shipping in the conventional sense doesn't work in NGE, to claim that romantic and sexual relationships are nonexistent or unimportant in NGE is completely false.
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>>121757204
>Asuka literally does attempt to kill herslef in a bathtub and go catatonic, yet this is somehow unrelated to her personality?
Are you unable to understand what I wrote? Read it again:

>This is less an aspect of her personality itself but more a consequence of how she copes with the events happening around her. Asuka is not a character whose personality is that of a girl who kills herself in a bathtub. Her character is most of all characterised by her inferiority complex which expresses itself normally in her tsun-tsun behaviour.

Killing yourself in a bathtub is not a personality aspect. It's an action induced by a certain type of personality under certain consequences. Asuka's personality drives her to drastic actions due to the plot and the outer circumstances - and Asukafags are well aware of that. The issue is: what makes Asuka act in that way is most of all the outer circumstance, it's not her innate drive to act in such a manner and different circumstances would obviously lead to a different type of behaviour.
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Broken-bird moe
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>>121757292
Fair enough, I suppose. Though I would claim that the scene in EoE is more of an extreme visual metaphor than an actual sexual act.
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>>121757393
YAMERO
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>tfw you realize kaworufags are paying for another asuka ending
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>>121747344
More like why does people try to get a waifu from Evangelion since every girl from that show is autistic or stupid
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>>121757393
The broken Asuka is at least as appealing as the regular Asuka.
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>>121757352
You're merely externalizing Asuka's personality to "the plot and outer circumstances", when the drive behind them are clearly very internal.
This is her exact innate drive, and like predicted you are denying it entirely thinking it's just tsun tsun.

Asuka's personality is a weak, unstable and one she can't recover from without help, and this is a fact that hurts you and therefore you rationalize it as tsun-tsun and blame the external factors.
Asuka can't handle reality. She needs help.

Therefore Asukafans reject the real Asuka in favor of one that is more cheerful, stronger and more comfortable, one that didn't go into a coma or try to off herself in a bathtub for ultimately very petty reasons.

There weren't any different circumstances, Asuka's personality was like everyone elses in NGE put to the test, and Asuka failed. It's why Shikinami is so popular, and only ever met resistance once she stood a chance of losing the shipping game.

Within the Asukafag lies the drive to love "broken bird moe" and also to at all deny that Asuka is broken. Height of self-delusion.
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>>121757569
>try to off herself in a bathtub for ultimately very petty reasons.
>Dead mother
>Absent mother
>Loved by no one
>Used by everyone
>Holds on to self worth through piloting world saving robot and putting self in consistent danger
>Loses even that after mind rape by eldrich abomination
>petty reasons

Yeah, Asuka's reasons for depression are pretty fucking legitimate. She clearly isn't just think she is weak and suicidal by her very nature.
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>>121757569
If you think Asuka would kill herself under any circumstance and her life would always linearly lead to the point where she sits in a bathtub attempting to die, then you're a retard. Clearly she was driven to that point by outer circumstances.

The reason why she reacts like this is her frail personality but the cause is still the events in the plot, losing her ability, being surpassed at the one thing which she believed made others appreciate her, etc.

Do you understand the difference between "underlying reason" and "cause"?

An Asuka that isn't mindraped most certainly wouldn't end up in that bathtub. She still has the same personality, but she commits different actions since she's not driven to that point due to the plot. You need to learn to differentiate the character from the context.

>Therefore Asukafans reject the real Asuka in favor of one that is more cheerful, stronger and more comfortable, one that didn't go into a coma or try to off herself in a bathtub for ultimately very petty reasons.
I think you're projecting. Refer to >>121757436. If you think the broken Asuka wasn't appealing to people too then you must be out of your mind. However, the most archaetypical Asuka is obviously the Asuka from the beginning of the show, at the point where she hadn't been broken yet.

>deny that Asuka is broken.
Again, this is you talking. I've never seen an Asukafag say that.
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>>121757686
Absent father

And

>She clearly isn't just think she is weak and suicidal by her very nature.

She is clearly not just weak and suicidal by her very nature.

Fuck I suck at making edits mid post.
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>>121757686
They're petty reasons, because you like her are referring to events far in her past and blatant untruths like nobody loves her.

Like Asuka, you're unable to look into yourself (or Asuka) and accept that she is the problem enabling her own suffering. She choses to stay back at Arael, she choses to seek out the bathtub. There wasn't anyone pushing her there or forcing her.

She has no self worth, which is why she needs to base it entirely on eva-piloting.

Her reasons are petty because instead of seeing reality as it is, she blames everyone else instead of trying to improve on herself. She can't cope with reality or ANY sort of resistance.
This is fucked up, and it's not just tsun-tsun. It's a deep weakness she is the worst at in NGE. Not just tsun-tsun.

Indeed, Asuka fans just replace the real Asuka with one that wasn't a failure. This is the same type of self-delusion present in Asuka.

>>121757796
See above. She loses her ability and screws herself over because like you, she refuses to accept the reality of the situation: she's the problem and only she can make it better for herself.

>Again, this is you talking. I've never seen an Asukafag say that.
You are both doing it by blaming external circumstances that others went through as well in the series but met different ends.

A point to both of you:

When Asuka in Rebuild after fighting Sahaquiel realizes she couldn't keep up and it was on her, she did something the original Asuka never did or could.
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>>121757862
>>121757796
>>121757686
I'll have to buzz off.

You can't convince me otherwise either, as you are still just excusing Asuka instead of dealing with the reality of her true character, not the fantasy one you need to believe in.
Had you seen Asuka for who she truly was, you might not be Asukafags.
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>>121757569
>Therefore Asukafans reject the real Asuka in favor of one that is more cheerful, stronger and more comfortable, one that didn't go into a coma or try to off herself in a bathtub for ultimately very petty reasons.

I fucking don't, I like suicidal Asuka what bloody asukafags have you been talking to
Fuck Shinikami, the eyepatch can stay though
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>>121757862
>She loses her ability and screws herself over

>She loses her ability
How is that not an "external circumstance"?

Again: your whole logic is flawed since you fail to distinguish between the character's personality and the character's behaviour within the context of the plot. Due to Asuka's personality she is inclined to certain things under certain circumstances, but without being mind broken she wouldn't end up in that bathtub.

>Asuka in Rebuild
We're talking about the original Asuka here.
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>>121757686
People go through that and come out fine.

It's a fundamental aspect of Asuka's character that she will succumb to her weakness.
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>>121758072
>How is that not an "external circumstance"?
Her as in *HER* ability, not really external. Especially when one's ability to pilot is based on one's psyche.
Rei and Shinji go through a lot worse than Asuka and they can pilot just fine.
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>>121758097
>It's a fundamental aspect of Asuka's character that she will succumb to her weakness.
No, it's not.

Her weaknesses are a fundamental aspect of Asuka's character.

Succumbing to that weakness is a consequence of the things that happen to her within the plot.
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>>121757862
>They're petty reasons, because you like her are referring to events far in her past

I don't know about you, but if I walked in on my mother hanging by her neck by a fucking rope I would be scarred for life. Every single thing I would do from that point on would be affected by that experience, and I would never, ever forget it. To claim that a length of time could would dull such a blow is utterly ridiculous.

>blatant untruths like nobody loves her.

Shinji and Hikari are probably the only people who are genuinely concerned about Asuka, with Rei and Misato, possibly caring about her.

>Like Asuka, you're unable to look into yourself (or Asuka) and accept that she is the problem enabling her own suffering. She choses to stay back at Arael, she choses to seek out the bathtub. There wasn't anyone pushing her there or forcing her.

This is technically true, but I feel that you are expecting an unreasonable amount of strength from this character.

>She has no self worth, which is why she needs to base it entirely on eva-piloting.

Absolutely true.

>Her reasons are petty because instead of seeing reality as it is, she blames everyone else instead of trying to improve on herself. She can't cope with reality or ANY sort of resistance.
This is fucked up, and it's not just tsun-tsun. It's a deep weakness she is the worst at in NGE. Not just tsun-tsun.

Again, I feel like you are expecting an unreasonable amount of strength from her character here.

>>121757956

>Implying Asukafag
>>
>>121757569
Strong people who have had a troubled past create goals, have resolve, and find things that make them happy. yeah once in a while it breaks down and they have a bad streak. but that's normal. and if they needs help they seek out a small but very trusted people.

"perfect" daddy's little princesses like rei, dont think they have flaws. so they dont seek out goals, resolve, or help. they seek out chads to fuck non-stop balls deep from 16 until 30 when the the bio clock hits. then need a betamax to marry and support the kids, like reifags
>>
>>121758151
Because of her own personality and character. You can't separate the two.
>>
Empirically better.
>>
>>121758140
>Rei and Shinji go through a lot worse than Asuka and they can pilot just fine.
I seriously doubt that. Also, there is no global measurement for "worse", since this is an individual issue.

Asuka got mindraped by Händel and she folded as a consequence.

Being mindraped is nothing internal, it's something that is externally done to her. Due to her frail psyche she can't deal with it, but the cause is still an external one. This is nothing to debate, this is a fact. If you're unable to understand this, then I can't help you.
>>
>>121758158
>I don't know about you, but if I walked in on my mother hanging by her neck by a fucking rope I would be scarred for life
But not broken for life or necessarily prone to making it the point of your existence. That happens to real people who go through worse, everything from rape and torture and they prevail.
People are not equal, and Asuka is weak.

Time does dull the blow. Not as much for the weak.

>Shinji and Hikari are probably the only people who are genuinely concerned about Asuka, with Rei and Misato, possibly caring about her.
In other words, a blatant untruth.

>This is technically true, but I feel that you are expecting an unreasonable amount of strength from this character.
Not unreasonable, I'm just making it clear that Asuka's internal weakness and personality, unlike what self-deluded Asuka fans claim, is the reason for her not being able to cope.
>>
>>121758184
Yes, but her character was put through a massive amount of stress. The specific way she cracks and how much it took for her to crack is dependent on her personality, but NGE Asuka is in no way destined to crack in such a way.
>>
>>121758184
Personality is an aspect of the character.

You're the one missing the greater picture since you fail to understand that a character who due to the plot is made to go through a certain event that ends up in character development could easily be taken out of the context at an earlier point where he or she hasn't undergone that yet. A character's personality in a plot is something that linearly develops.
>>
>>121758223
>I seriously doubt that. Also, there is no global measurement for "worse", since this is an individual issue.
Then why do you bring up such measurements in mentinioning the shit asuka goes through? By those measure what Shinji goes through is worse, much more Rei.

Asuka got mindraped in the same way Shinji and Rei did, the Angel brought up their own issues which they both handled differently. Asuka was the only one who folded because she hadn't accepted that part of her, she couldn't see her own failures as her own.

When she does, she breaks. This is internal, very much so.

She also goes on for a long time after the mindrape, it's not what gets her, it's her own weakness she isnt' able to overcome.

There is nothing you say that can be understood because it's just an asukafag delusion. Your waifu isn't as great as you think, not even close.
>>
>>121758236
>Asuka's internal weakness and personality, unlike what self-deluded Asuka fans claim, is the reason for her not being able to cope.
I've never met an Asukafag who would deny this. I think you're massively projecting.
>>
>>121758252
>Yes, but her character was put through a massive amount of stress. The specific way she cracks and how much it took for her to crack is dependent on her personality, but NGE Asuka is in no way destined to crack in such a way.
She is destined to crack in such a way. It's the only possible alternative there is to her character unless she gets magical help or a rewriting of her character, case in point:
End of Evangelion
Rebuild of Evangelion

Asuka could not, and could never overcome her own problems. This is because she never confronted them until she was forced, and because Asuka is weak unlike Shinji or Rei, she can't take self-criticism and so she breaks.
>>
I'm a submissive bitch who likes being humiliated and bossed around
>>
>>121758236
>But not broken for life or necessarily prone to making it the point of your existence. That happens to real people who go through worse, everything from rape and torture and they prevail.

They "prevail" by figuring out how to cope with said events. They do not forget them, they do not get over them, these are events that follow you forever. Asuka learns how to cope in an unhealthy manner, and when that is taken away from her due to outside circumstances she falls apart. Is it weakness? I'm not sure. She goes through much more than most people probably could before cracking. I'm not really sure its even an important discussion.

>In other words, a blatant untruth.

Fair enough, although she never opens up to either of them and probably never internalized that either cared for her.
>>
>>121758324
This entire thread is filled with examples. Are you blind?

Observe how they try to separate Asuka's inability to cope with reality by blaming reality instead of Asuka. The reality was that asuka wasn't as good as she thought she was, and that it was her own fault. Her approach, her mindset, her everything was wrong, and she couldn't face that fact because she bet her entire life on EVA-piloting. It's a tragic character, but it's also her own flaws that bring her down, exactly like a good tragedy does.

Instead these asukafags pretend it's not her fault, that it's all on everyone else to blame that Asuka is just a doll with no free will. If you paid taxes for irony, I swear to you these asukafags would be broke.
>>
Speaking of red and blue, what exactly is Rei's stance on Asuka? Is it a mutual aversion to each other or does Rei just not care? Or is it something different altogether?
>>
>>121758408
>They "prevail" by figuring out how to cope with said events.
Correct, which asuka can't do. Nobody said forget, we said cope, and that's what Asuka can't do. Throughout the enitre series she consistently fails to address reality and her own problems, which leads to her own demise. She had the time, resources and ability to do so just like Rei and Shinji had.

Her own weakness caused her misery, it hurt too much to accept she was wrong, and therefore reality kicked her ass.
>>
>>121758432
She thinks Asuka is a cunt, but a cunt that deserves help nonetheless.
>>
>>121747344
Just started the anime today.

when does the /ss/ happen?
>>
>>121758298
You're talking to two different people here. The post you're referring to wasn't mine. Also, "the shit she goes through" doesn't put things in relation, thus it's perfectly fine to be used - very much opposed to your comparative statement.

>Asuka got mindraped in the same way Shinji and Rei did
No, she did not. But even if, given Asuka's past and frail personality it's understandable that she'd be more inclined to fold under pressure.

>When she does, she breaks. This is internal, very much so.
But what breaks her? Did she attack herself? No, the attack comes from the outside. It seems unbelievable to me that you're unable to understand this.

>She also goes on for a long time after the mindrape, it's not what gets her, it's her own weakness she isnt' able to overcome.
She's unable to get back up, but what got her down in the first place was something forced upon her from the outside.

>Your waifu isn't as great as you think
What you half-witted idiot don't seem to get - despite the fact that at least two people have told you this already - is that nobody is under the impression that Asuka was "great". People don't want her to be great, they like her just the way she is, with all that emotional baggage that makes her lash out at people, insult them, and completely break down and attempt to kill herself under too much pressure.
>>
>>121758357
Is the same not true of Shinji? He couldn't deal with his problems until a space god in the form of a friend agreed to destroy the world and mix everyone together into one being for him. By that logic, Shinji is just as weak as Asuka. Hell, none of the characters ever face their problems until confronted with utter catastrophe, with the sole exceptions of Rei and Misato. Even Misato only ever recognizes her problems, she never fully deals with them. This is one of the throughlines of the whole fucking show.

>>121758483
I suspect you're the same anon, but even if you aren't this is your response as well.
>>
>>121758420
>This entire thread is filled with examples. Are you blind?
I think this is more your own problem due to selectively reading things and being a rather simple person whose brain stops working when subordinate clauses are involved.
>>
>>121747344
this is indirectly summoning Moot!
other than that Asuka best grill
>>
>beta children who would let their girlfriend cheat on them and be okay with it
Asuka
>men with great taste
Yui, Misato, Rei
>>
>>121747344
It's obvious that people could only ever theoretically like Asuka for her body, and it's impossible for anyone else to have a different taste than you about her character

It's obvious that people could only ever theoretically like Rei because they think she's a doll and they have power fantasies and it's impossible for anyone else to have a different taste than you about her character

There! Now you don't have to read the thread.
>>
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>2015
>Rei vs Asuka war still raging
>those who understand who best girl is are still in the minority
>(it's Shinji)
>>
>>121759070
You seriously need to kill yourself.
>>
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>>121759155
>>
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>>121759155
How can you say that this is not the best girl?
>>
>>121747344

>She is the personification of Anno's fears.

nice projecting
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>>121747344
I'm love Asuka regardless of her flaws
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>>121759070
>Shinji only has merchandise now because of Kaworu
>>
>>121759600
>>121759225
>>121759070

Shinji confirmed a best
>>
>>121759600
>>121759824

is it wrong that I want shinji and kaworu to end up in a threesome with mana
>>
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All things considered, I think this thread turned out pretty well. Too bad the gayfags will ruin it now.
>>
>>121759918
It's time for you to head to the gym.
>>
>>121759965
It's time for you to kill yourself.
>>
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>>121759918
>gayfags
>>
>>121760002
Not till I see your sexy body.
>>
>>121760076
Too bad.
>>
Would Shinji be an Asukafag, since he have a shitty self-esteem?
>>
>>121759918
It's not gay to love Shinji.
>>
>>121760593
Shinji was an Asukafag until it got too real for him. Then he became a Kaworufag.
>>
>>121760847
Fujoshits pls.
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>>121760918
It's not really a fujoshi thing to say. He lusted after pretty much every main female and he also lusted after Kaworu.
>>
>>121760847
But Kaworu wasn't even invited to his birthday party.
>>
>>121761022
Shinji wasn't desperate for attention by then, since he was getting it from everyone else in his mindscape. In the end, Shinji began to develop into a Shinjifag, which is as it should be.
>>
>>121747344
>She is the personification of Anno's fears.
>>
>>121760593
no, he liked Asuka but even he was bothered by her bullshit.
>>
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We know who best girl is.
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>>121761072
>strong women
>asuka
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>>121747344
Asuka is best girl

Anybody who thinks that an autismo like Rei is an "ideal waifu" is fucking idiot.
>>
>>121761428
But she was created to take the ideal waifu to a disturbing extreme. She's passive, which was a desired trait, to the point of seeming dead and being unable to express herself.
>>
I like Asuka because I like the idea of saving her from herself. I just want to hug her and tell her everything is daijobu.
>>
>>121747795
Kek'd
>>
Which Asuka is the most popular?
Soryu or Shikinami?
>>
>>121758532
The point still applies to you regardless, and it's not fine to be used like you suggests as it only uses one point of view and therefore is 100% biased.

>No, she did not.
Yes, she did. The exact same basic issue, the reaction is stronger for Asuka because she's too fragile and weak underneath it all. It brings forth, for each of the pilots, the insecurities and truths in their heart. It differs by the person, and Rei and Shinji handle their issues better since they're more reflected than Asuka.

>But what breaks her? Did she attack herself?
Pretty much. First off, the attack is something she's literally exposing herself to. She refused to back down and did something dumb due to her own weakness.
Second, the attack only exposes her inner truth and fears, and it is not the fears that break her it's her inability to cope with them being brought up. Everyone has fears, some greater than Asuka's, but Asuka can't handle them. The attack is by definition internal since it only uses things within Asuka to break her.

>She's unable to get back up, but what got her down in the first place was something forced upon her from the outside.
See above. It's something that was always inside the character, that's all the Angel does. It brings out the truth.

>s that nobody is under the impression that Asuka was "great". People don't want her to be great, they like her just the way she is,
Which has been proven wrong by the fact that these people are rejecting the core facts of asuka's character. It's not about Asuka being great, it's about you thinking she's greater than she is.

>>121758575
That goes more for you than me. Denying the reality just like asuka does.
>>
>>121762909
Shikinami according to fanart, polls, fanbase activity and more.
>>
>>121758567
Shinji is stronger since he doesn't buckle under the pressure as quick as Asuka does. It took far more to bring Shinji down than it took Asuka, and Shinji still manages to reach out to a few people, bond, and then have them taken away. Add in a couple of Angel mindfucks through Leliel and the rest, and you've got someone who found the courage to stand back up.

Shinji also never loses enough of his psyche to become unable to even pilot his EVA. Despite it all, his heart is open enough and not closed off and he can still pilot.

But it's true that the rest of the cast don't fully solve their problems either, but like you also suggest the thing is that they were able to realize they had a problem, then they tried finding an answer and taking action, something Asuka never does.

It's primarily above all things, even retarded angel powers and cat hats, what sets Shikinami apart from Soryu. Shikinami since her introduction is able to make the conscious, and fundamentally human reasoning that she, I, herself, couldn't succeed. Without the delusion of her predecessor.

In a sense, Shikinami offers Asuka fans the Asuka they replaced the original Asuka with in their minds.
>>
>>121763076
>Pretty much. First off, the attack is something she's literally exposing herself to. She refused to back down and did something dumb due to her own weakness.
Again: the attack is something forced upon her by the outside. If you deliberately expose yourself to bricks that are thrown out of a window and you catch one in the face, then your injury is still caused by physical trauma rather than stupidity.

>The attack is by definition internal since it only uses things within Asuka to break her.
It's still an outside factor. If the aforementioned brick hits you in the face, is it internal weakness of your bone structure and frailness of your human body in general that causes injury? No. These things are the reason why the brick can cause injury, but the brick is still the cause.

>It's something that was always inside the character, that's all the Angel does. It brings out the truth.
This is what I said, worded in an overly esoteric fashion without getting the point. The underlying reason why things work is Asuka's frail nature (something which despite your supposed knowledge of Asukafags most Asukafags are well aware of) but the cause is still an outside attack.

>Which has been proven wrong by the fact that these people are rejecting the core facts of asuka's character.
Who is "these people"? Would you mind quoting them? I'd like to see the specific line you're referring to so I can tell you precisely why you're a moron.

>It's not about Asuka being great, it's about you thinking she's greater than she is.
Thank you for telling me what I think. I don't know how often I have to tell you that Asukafags don't think of Asuka as being great, they're well aware of her flaws - in fact, that's what they like about her.
>>
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>>121763138
It pains me to think that there are people out there who think Shikinami is only just a name change.
>>
>>121761072
Sometimes this quote really makes me wonder, did Anno even watch his own show or read his own characters?
Is Rei not strong just because she isn't expressive and outgoing like Misato, or constantly yelling and angry like Asuka?
They are undoubtedly strong and determined people, but out of the three of them Rei is by far the most willing to throw herself directly into danger in order to protect her fellow Eva pilots, and in extension humanity itself.
She isn't indecisive like Shinji, or distracted by narcissism like Asuka.
>>
>>121763364
>Shinji is stronger since he doesn't buckle under the pressure as quick as Asuka does.
Shiji left Nerv 2 or 3 times.
It was necessary to be mind raped by a space monster for Asuka freak out.
>>
>>121763557
There's someone out there who doesn't even give much thought to that.
>>
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>>121763640
>Rei is by far the most willing to throw herself directly into danger
>>
>>121763670
Asuka freaks out constantly, the difference between her and Shinji is that Shinji has more free will and is able to let go of the role NERV has assigned to her. When they talk about dolls in Asuka's flashback, they are labeling her and her family as a doll family, and in the future we see why - Asuka is completely under NERV's control.
She can't bring herself to leave NERV and would rather die than do so.

Shinji is more in the current and lacks the programming and lack of will Asuka has, and therefore can just say "fuck it, this sucks" and then fuck off. He comes back though, because in the end he realizes that they need him and he can't bear with the guilt of leaving.

>>121763752
Not him but she totally is. She's got zero concern for herself, which isn't really a good thing though.
>>
Asukafags will parrot whatever nonsense they want, but in reality they only pretend to like Asuka because she is the 'winning team'.
>>
>>121763793
>Asuka freaks out constantly

Not that anon, but define "freaks out." I think you are both operating under different definitions.
>>
>>121763364
>Shinji is stronger since he doesn't buckle under the pressure as quick as Asuka does.

I'm not sure you can really compare experiences in this way. The challenges Asuka faced and the way she deals with them are, in many cases, very different to how Shinji does.

>and Shinji still manages to reach out to a few people, bond, and then have them taken away.

This is arguable. Although he certainly makes friends with Toji and Kensuke he never really opens up to them on any sort of deeply personal level. The closest we get is the camp scene with Kensuke, and even there it's clear that Shinji is still quite closed off. This is very similar to Asuka's relationship with Hikari.

>Shinji also never loses enough of his psyche to become unable to even pilot his EVA. Despite it all, his heart is open enough and not closed off and he can still pilot.

This is simply a difference in how the two cope. Asuka has always been deeply individualistic, so it would make sense for her to close herself off in an attempt to cope. Shinji attempts to reach out more. They just deal with things differently.

>something Asuka never does.

The Final Scene of EoE, as well as the MP Eva fight.

Other than that, I don't really care about Shikinami. I recognize that she's a declawed version of her former self, all of her good traits without the psychological trauma.
>>
>>121763793
>Not him but she totally is. She's got zero concern for herself, which isn't really a good thing though.
built-in autism
>>
>>121763793
I'm not even sure it counts as concern. She's suicidal and she knows she will be brought back to life if she dies. Is that really strong or self sacrificing?
>>
>>121763640
>Rei is by far the most willing to throw herself directly into danger
For Shinji.
>>
>>121763530
>If you deliberately expose yourself to bricks that are thrown out of a window and you catch one in the face, then your injury is still caused by physical trauma rather than stupidity.
The physical trauma is something you more or less signed up for, and it would still be asuka's action or inaction that is the primary cause. But the analogy isn't complete.
Because rather than force being applied from the outside, all it's doing is unlocking the truth in the character's pasts and what they've repressed. It happens with Shinji, it happens with Rei, and with Asuka as well. Asuka screams "noo, stop showing my my past I want to forget".
So the problem here is that Asuka is completely unable to face reality, to at all improve on herself. She's deluding herself that she's #1 when all she is is third rate at best. Some (but not all) Asuka fans do the same thing. Denying that Asuka is fucked up and the reason she's fucked up and fails is internal is the same mistake Asuka makes. Which is why she represses that, it's why it hurts her when it's brought up and it's why it hurts Asukafags as well.

>The underlying reason why things work is Asuka's frail nature but the cause is still an outside attack.
This is highly contradictory.
Asuka's frail nature exists prior to the attack. This very frail nature is the primary problem which is the actual issue. The Angel attack is the test, it's revealing her flaws and fucked up nature. That weakness has to be confronted or revealed or else Asuka will never, ever become a non-fucked up person. Her reaction is only as bad as it is because she was never able to do it herself like the others.

>Who is "these people"?
Been doing it all thread.

>they're well aware of her flaws - in fact, that's what they like about her.
If that were the case, Shikinami would be rejected and not more popular than Sohryu, and you wouldn't spend so much energy on denying that Asuka's problems are her own. You're is reducing her to a mindless doll.
>>
>>121763932
>Reifag accepts defeat
>>
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>>121764193
They don't have a choice.
>>
>>121756380
This is dead on
>>
>>121764193
I wouldn't have even responded to obvious bait.
>>
>>121764033
Something like that.

>>121764067
That is zero concern for herself. By definition it's self-sacrificing since she is sacrificing herself, but there is logic behind her sacrifice. Nevertheless she is ready to endure pain, loss and uncertainty for someone else. If Rei dies she will lose all her progress, which she had made in understanding herself through Armisael for instance. She'd come back less informed, and grown than she was. Maybe she would be brainwashed or worse. Who knows?

It's strong and self-sacrificing, and very bitter as the punch is that the only one who came to see her after she "came back" was Shinji. Gendo abandons her at this point.

>>121763954
Losing control of her EVA, attacking recklessly when she's defeated, running away to Hikari and throwing fits because she didn't get a higher percentage than Shinji.
Asuka has relatively an easy time compared to Shinji, and she's been trained for all this while Shinji is thrown straight under the bus once he gets there. Thank god for Misato.
>>
>>121764144
>The underlying reason why things work is Asuka's frail nature but the cause is still an outside attack.
>This is highly contradictory.

I think what that anon is trying to get at here is that had another character, like Shinji, or even Misato or Ritsuko, been under Arael mindrape beam, they would have broken too.
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>>121763640
It's the number one reifag!!!
or one of~
>>
>>121764193
Actually Rei is a good enough character that you can like her without being a Reifag, but the same cannot be said about Asuka.
>>
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>>121764295
>Nevertheless she is ready to endure pain
>By definition it's self-sacrificing since she is sacrificing herself, but there is logic behind her sacrifice
>If Rei dies she will lose all her progress
>>
>>121764193
Reifags are losers after all.
>>
>>121764295
>throwing fits because she didn't get a higher percentage than Shinji.

This served to spawn the rest of the "freak outs" mentioned earlier, so I'm not sure that's exactly a fair comparison to make.
>>
>>121764372
I'm certain this is bait, but all of the characters in NGE are relatable, and all of them are written well.
>>
>>121757423
Like clockwork
>>
>>121764023
>I'm not sure you can really compare experiences in this way. The challenges Asuka faced and the way she deals with them are, in many cases, very different to how Shinji does.
They are different insofar they are less damaging and traumatic, physical or otherwise. You can compare them quite easily like this.

>Although he certainly makes friends with Toji and Kensuke he never really opens up to them on any sort of deeply personal level.
Is that really necessary though? It's not needed to form deep, personal connections with everyone you meet. Shinji made more friends than Asuka did, after all. That's the point, but clearly all of them have some ways to go.

>This is simply a difference in how the two cope.
Asuka copes by deluding herself into thinking there isn't anything to cope with. Coping by not coping is not coping.

>Asuka has always been deeply individualistic, so it would make sense for her to close herself off in an attempt to cope.
No. She bases her entire individuality on piloting the EVA. Asuka ranks fairly low on the personality/individuality scale because she's unable to consider anything else than what her controllers has set forth for her: Pilot the damned EVA.
Shinji's self-interest in even leaving them speaks more of individuality. Asuka doesn't deal with things, Shinji does. Asuka's way of dealing with things makes her weaker.

>The Final Scene of EoE, as well as the MP Eva fight.
None of them are accepting her own problems.

>I recognize that she's a declawed version of her former self, all of her good traits without the psychological trauma.
No no. She's not declawed, the original asuka was declawed. Shikinami is the inferior character but Shikinami has good traits the original Asuka was never even close to having.
>>
>>121764448
Are they really? All the character archetypes in Eva are piss-easy to write, and the execution of them is significantly worse than the same kind of character in a different series.
>>
>>121764389
It's fair because it's a petty reason that doesn't really mean anything. This means Asuka is unable to face any sort of adversity, she's unable to have a small failure without freaking out.
She's not able to learn.

That's what Shikinami does, and it's why they're different - Shikinami does what Asukan't. Rei and Shinji, even Misato learn from their mistakes, Asuka doesn't.
>>
>>121759070
>tfw have to weave through like 40 pages in pixiv to find pics of Shinji that aren't gayshit/shippershit or trapshit
>>
>>121764584
>This means Asuka is unable to face any sort of adversity, she's unable to have a small failure without freaking out.

I wouldn't say the she's unable, considering until after the events of epiosde 22, she still sorties. Evidence of the fact she is still attempting to face adversity, though external.
>>
>>121764355
Said anon is wrong because they already were. Leliel and slightly EVA01 for Shinji, Armisael for Rei, if you watch it again it does the same thing: The Angel invades their minds and reads it, bringing up their painful pasts and inner insecurities.

Shinji deals with it by getting upset and sad about himself, but ultimately it doesn't phase him as much because by that point, he already knew what was bothering him. He didn't have the knowledge, experience or strength to deal with it in anything but a reclusive way.

Rei deals with it by confronting the Angel and even denying it at some point, ultimately turning the entire thing into a learning experience. She was able to look inside her own heart and take something away from it, putting it shortly the Angel beat some sense into Rei. Then Rei blew it up along with herself.

Asuka on the other hand, what does she do? She rejects herself, she rejects her own memories and throws a temper tantrum because she doesn't want to remember or even think about it.

These are the differences in their characters. It's what makes Asuka a weak character, and the rest comparatively stronger. All fucked up, but some weaker than the others.
>>
>>121761982
She'll throw you off her and call you a pervert.
>>
>>121764539
We're not talking about Rebuilds here.
>>
>>121764811
>actually believes rebuild characters are any different to their NGE counterparts
There the Asukafags go saying whatever the hell they want knowing they're full of shit
>>
>>121764374
Why the reaction image? Didn't you see how Rei III doesn't seem to remember anything and has to be brought up to speed on what happened during the battle? She lost progress there, as well as faith in those around her.

>>121764699
I wouldn't say the she's unable, considering until after the events of epiosde 22, she still sorties. Evidence of the fact she is still attempting to face adversity, though external.

Here's the kicker, it's actually not.
Because her failure is that she's unable to break free at any level from basing her entire existence on piloting EVA. Without it, she will surely die.

If anything it's continuing the trend, she's not able to face her own problems and keeps denying them. When obviously it won't work any more, she starts crying.
>>
>>121764363
>implying he's an actual Reifag
Quafsiel isn't a real reifag.
>>
>>121764144
>it would still be asuka's action or inaction that is the primary cause.
No, you goddamn retard. The primary cause is that she's attacked by an alien mind rape beam shooting Händel music at her. Asuka is predisposed to being weak against mindrape due to her frail psyche, but that doesn't change the fact that if you pulled Asuka out of the setting and simply made her not get mindraped that she wouldn't end up in that tub.

>She's deluding herself that she's #1 when all she is is third rate at best.
I don't think you get Asuka's character at all. Asuka's innermost fear is inadequacy and being disliked for it as a result. That is why she tries to be the best, that is the reason for her aggressive behaviour. When she failed at the thing she believed she was appreciated for, she completely gives up and becomes a hikikomori and later attempts to commit suicide. Asuka is in a constant fear of being third rate.

>Been doing it all thread.
Again: show me the specific posts. Quote the lines. You've had enough time to do that.

>spend so much energy on denying that Asuka's problems are her own
Seriously, you must be the most retarded person on /a/ right now. How about you quote me on that one? I can guarantee you that whatever you interpret into my posts is not written in them but takes place mostly inside of your head either because you're completely delusional or because you're a complete moron who's unable to read analytically.
>>
>>121764858
Stop baiting.

don't make me walltext you
>>
>>121764584
>Rei and Shinji, even Misato learn from their mistakes, Asuka doesn't.
She is the most human.
>>
>>121764860
>If anything it's continuing the trend, she's not able to face her own problems and keeps denying them.

Hence why I said external. I also believe that there isn't much initiative for Asuka to stop basing her existence around Eva, because it had worked up until her descent arc. Until then, it had been a positive for her.
>>
>>121764925
Please do, but watch NGE again then the Rebuilds before you do it.
>>
>>121764953
No, she's a shitty human.
Learning from one's mistakes (and others) forms partly the basis of human progress.

The up and going people of the world has to compensate for people like Asuka.
>>
>>121764901
>uka is predisposed to being weak against mindrape due to her frail psyche, but that doesn't change the fact that if you pulled Asuka out of the setting and simply made her not get mindraped that she wouldn't end up in that tub.

She'd also continue to be just as frail as she was, and all you'd be doing would be keeping her as a stagnant, waifu doll you can fantasize about in an isolated enviroment where her true self never appears.
The Angel is merely a test for her, as it were for the others. Ritsuko doesn't call it an attack, she calls it communication. For good reason.
>>
>>121764996
>The up and going people of the world has to compensate for people like Asuka.

Coming from an /a/non, huh?

The most common thing to witness in the world is someone not learning from their mistakes. If you mean to say that most humans are shitty then, I could agree with that.
>>
>>121764976
>Hence why I said external. I also believe that there isn't much initiative for Asuka to stop basing her existence around Eva, because it had worked up until her descent arc. Until then, it had been a positive for her.

Come on. It didn't work, that's why it literally failed. It only worked as long as she wasn't bothered or actually dealing with reality.

As long as she was treated as a spoilt brat who was "special", and never faced any adversity or anything real, OF COURSE she was fine. As long as she was able to deny her own problems.

She's living in a bubble that was waiting to burst on first contact with reality.

It's not external, it's all internal. There's nobody putting a gun to her head, her problems are inside her.
>>
>>121764860
>Why the reaction image? Didn't you see how Rei III doesn't seem to remember anything and has to be brought up to speed on what happened during the battle? She lost progress there, as well as faith in those around her.
I would tell you to re-watch the show, but to be honest i doubt you will understand anything either way.
>>121764996
>The up and going people of the world
Are you part of the up and going people?
>>
>>121764858
>asukafags
u wot
Here's your reply, anyways.
>>
>>121764784
Not with me she won't, I'll overpower her and hug her with all of my strength until she gives in.
>>
>>121765032
>mind-invasion is communication

You can dry to dress up something however you want to, it was obviously an attack, whether the Angel intended it to be or not.
>>
Honestly I was surprised that Asuka was popular the first time I watched NGE. Asuka was portrayed on the internet to be a badass Tsun-Tsun shieldmaiden who was totally a better pilot and general person that that baka Shinji/ But watching the series I thought of her as an arrogant cunt, to seeing her for the lonely and scared little girl that she truly is. Not saying that she doesn't deserve sympathy or shes a bad character but I don't get whats really attractive about her other than her looks.
>>
>>121764996
>No, she's a shitty human.
Like most of mankind.

>Learning from one's mistakes (and others) forms partly the basis of human progress.
Theoretically. In practice, the opposite is practically the rule.
>>
>>121765032
>She'd also continue to be just as frail as she was, and all you'd be doing would be keeping her as a stagnant, waifu doll you can fantasize about in an isolated enviroment where her true self never appears.
Her true self is out in the open all the time. Her initial aggressiveness is as much of an aspect of her personality as her later brokenness. You can't separate one from the other.
>>
>>121765103
Then she'd start crying and Rei would come over and wreck your shit.
>>
>>121764529
>They are different insofar they are less damaging and traumatic, physical or otherwise. You can compare them quite easily like this.

Based on what? What standards are you using for mental trauma? Physical, at the very least I can accept, though neither have any significant physical damage until EoE.

>Shinji made more friends than Asuka did, after all

Patently untrue. Asuka is very popular in school, it just isn't focused on as much because the story, especially at that point, was about Shinji more than her. Also, said relationships had little effect on her.

>Asuka copes by deluding herself into thinking there isn't anything to cope with. Coping by not coping is not coping.

Bullshit. This is probably the most common form of coping. People spend years pretending they don't have problems before they finally realize their lives are fucked.

>No. She bases her entire individuality on piloting the EVA. Asuka ranks fairly low on the personality/individuality scale because she's unable to consider anything else than what her controllers has set forth for her: Pilot the damned EVA.
Shinji's self-interest in even leaving them speaks more of individuality. Asuka doesn't deal with things, Shinji does. Asuka's way of dealing with things makes her weaker.

Her Individuality is based on unhealthy things, that much is clear, but that doesn't mean she isn't individualistic. At the very least she has a very deep desire to be seen as adult and independent. Read this how you will, but I see it as Individualism, even if it is based unhealthily.

>None of them are accepting her own problems.

There are lots of interpretations for the last scene, but it is at the very least clear that in the MP Eva fight Asuka is recognizing that her mother didn't hate her. I could also go into my interpretation of the final scene but that could take awhile so I won't.

>No no. She's not declawed, the original asuka was declawed.

Her bad traits are removed. Please read before replying.
>>
>>121765106
>I don't get whats really attractive about her other than her looks.
Have you read >>121752391?
>>
>>121765081
>Rei Q is Rei
>>
>>121765159
I'd shit all over Rei
>>
>>121765065
>It's not external, it's all internal.

I was referring to the angels, obviously as an adversity, they only had to do with Asuka's problems tangentially save for Arael.

>As long as she was treated as a spoilt brat who was "special", and never faced any adversity or anything real,

So I guess we're kicking Israefl, Sahaquiel, Sandalphon, and Gaghiel under the rug?

>her problems are inside her.

No shit.
>>
>>121765203
You haven't ever seen Rei engage in hand to hand combat, have you?
>>
>>121765237
>Not shooting her
I have confidence in my aim
>>
>liking NGE
>>
>>121765059
>>121765071
Yeah. I pay my taxes, I earn very well, I make stuff that helps other people in areas they couldn't succeed in before, I don't have any issues medical or otherwise, that's up and going enough.
>>
>>121765262
>bringing a gun to your supposed romantic encounter with Asuka
Why?
>>
>>121765320
I always carry a gun on me just in case something stupid like Rei happens, that and a knife.
>>
>>121765319
You never stumble? Never make mistakes? Never fail to do things you should have? Never repeat the same mistakes? Because if so, good for you, but nothing you say will make me believe you.
>>
>>121765320
>not having a concealed carry permit to protect you're waifu

I'm not even the guy, but come on.
>>
>>121765319
Yet you come to 4chan.
>>
>>121765105
>You can dry to dress up something however you want to, it was obviously an attack, whether the Angel intended it to be or not.
Ritsuko, resident expert, did not interpret is an attack.

You are of course right that it was unpleasant, but Asuka is actually the one with the easiest attack. Shinji gets absorbed, and lost in null space thinking he's going to die all alone, and Rei gets physically as well as psychologically invaded with rape allusions to boot, so comparatively it's not even as bad as the others.

Asuka is let off by having a nice session set to classical music. (obviously joking, but it just shone a light on her and then asuka's issues took care of the rest)
>>
>>121765319
>Reifag
>being a normalfag
>blogging about his life
Why am I not surprised?
>>
>>121765371
I'm not a skinny manlet so I don't need a gun. Besides my waifu is an immortal archdemon so the situation never really arises.
>>
>>121765140
>Her true self is out in the open all the time.
Even though the entire point of the character is nailed down thruogh the narrative that the "true self" asuka puts on ISNT her true self?

Here we have it, yet another Asukafag thinking brash confident Asuka is the real Asuka and not just a delusion she has.
>>
>>121765319
You come here to argue/troll with people, your life is definitely not good.
>>
>>121765426
>I'm not a skinny manlet so I don't need a gun.
Tell that to my gun.
>>
>>121765426
>implying you need to be a skinny manlet to use a gun
Nigga, pls
>>
>>121765454
What if I charge at you?
>>
>>121765395
So if you had your mind-invaded, you'd consider it communication? You'd believed you weren't attacked?

>>121765426
Being a skinny manlet has nothing to do with packing heat. Don't bring fists to a knife/gunfight, you know?

I'd carry one even if I was.

As for you're waifu's characteristics then, fair enough.

>>121765474
You'd get dropped, obviously. A bullet moves faster than a human.
>>
>>121765405
I'm not even that guy but
> questioning what kind of person he is
> he shortly describes himself
>lel stop blogging about yourself
>>
>>121765179
I'm as beta as they come and I wouldn't want to be anywhere Asuka simply because she is a mean person, or at least outwardly behaves that why to hide her feelings. The problem with this is it back words thinking. What is suppose to happen if everything went Asuka's way? That Shinji will start to respect her more and eventually start maning up because she mean to him? There is such thing as tough love but Asuka is all Tsun with only a tinny, tinny speck of dere. Witch obliviously isn't a healthy way for someone to behave.
>>
>>121765493
You're saying you could keep calm and aim properly with a 300lb behemoth charging at you? I wouldn't stop for a wounded shoulder either.
>>
"Rei is basically the personification of the ideal waifu"
>liking submissive dolls
gay
>>
>>121765434
Again, you're interpreting rather than reading analytically. Half of what you believe other people say takes place in your head rather than in their written posts.

Of course Asuka is not actually confident - she's the very opposite of it. But her initial overcompensation, flaunting her supposed superiority in peoples' faces, is just as much aspect of her personality as her later breakdown.
>>
>>121765543
>You're saying you could keep calm and aim properly with a 300lb behemoth charging at you?

Easily, you're an even bigger target in this case, harder to miss.
>>
>>121765543
>You're saying you could keep calm and aim properly with a 300lb behemoth charging at you?
Yes.

>I wouldn't stop for a wounded shoulder either.
Which is why you aim for where shots are lethal.
>>
>>121765543
>Implying I just wouldn't shoot your kneecaps
>Implying you wouldn't fall
>Implying a 300lb man is hard to miss
>>
>>121765599
I meant easy but whatever, my point still stands
>>
>>121765165
>Based on what?
The amount of physical trauma, the frequency of occurence, the situation they're in, and the psychological influence the Angel has for instance.
They all exert the same influence. What triggers a bad reaction in Asuka but a strangely half-positive effect in Rei for instance is the characters own psyches. Asuka is weak because she can't confront her own problems so she just deny herself, because she can't handle the stress. Rei can handle said stress, and more. Shinji is in the middle somewhere.

>Patently untrue. Asuka is very popular in school,
Being popular doesn't mean she has friends. She's popular because she's cute, hell the character is made to be popular like this. Like Toji points out, if they actually knew her they'd hate her. They aren't her friends, Asuka is just the new exotic toy in the store.

They sell sexy photos of Asuka in the dressing room. That's the extent of interest and friendship people have for the character, sex appeal.

It's not that she "isn't focused on", she patently has no friends besides the ones we see.

>Bullshit. This is probably the most common form of coping.
Coping by not coping is not coping. It's called self-delusion and it's bad.

>People spend years pretending they don't have problems before they finally realize their lives are fucked.
Exactly, and it's not a good thing because it all comes crashing down. They're too weak to confront their problems and so they stew and worsen over time.

>Her Individuality is based on unhealthy things,
It's based on denying her own individuality, her problems and mindlessly going with the role NERV gave her. She isn't mindless in the literal sense, singleminded is it.

>but it is at the very least clear that in the MP Eva fight Asuka is recognizing that her mother didn't hate her.
Which is given to her for free. By virtue of existing. It's not facing her own problems, it's having godlike intervention solve them for you.

She had good traits added in Rebuild.
>>
>>121765597
You say that on the internet like it makes a difference. You don't have much experience fighting people, do you?

>>121765576
>>121765599
You two are also Asukafags.
>>
>>121765216
Fighting Angels isn't adversity from Asuka's PoV, it's her raison d'etre this point. She's breaking, buckling.

>So I guess we're kicking Israefl, Sahaquiel, Sandalphon, and Gaghiel under the rug?
Everyone faces angels, and you know very well being inside the EVA is the safest place to be, technically.
It's also not adversity, adversity is failing. Those are all pretty much successes with a good dose of luck, some of which she needed to be saved.

>No shit.
I have to say it because there is someone ITT who says it's all external.
>>
>>121747344
You gotta do a better job than that to hide your Reifag nature, OP
>>
>>121765533
>I'm as beta as they come and I wouldn't want to be anywhere Asuka simply because she is a mean person
You seem to think more highly of yourself then. In my experience Asukafags are similar to Asuka herself in some ways, but they're more in the stage Asuka is after her mindrape experience, having given up on anything.
>>
>>121765736
>You two are also Asukafags.

I can't speak for>>121765599 but yeah. I don't think that has to do with the point at all.
>>
>>121765736
I underwent military training and I'm a member of a local shooting club. I can guarantee you, you can easily shoot a guy coming at you.
>>
>>121765736
Misatofag, I also like Asuka but dislike Rei.

>You say that on the internet like it makes a difference. You don't have much experience fighting people, do you?
>implying you know me
>implying you know how much milk I like in my cereal
>>
>>121765829
The kind of people who have confidence in their ability to not freak the fuck out in surprise combat are the same people who think a tsundere bitch is a worthy waifu.
>>
>>121765363
Of course I do, but I get up and don't try to kill myself.

>>121765438
>>121765394
It's a good place, despite how people view it. This place has a bad rep. You can't get to say stuff from the liver unless it's in person too many places.

>>121765405
>hurr
>>
Why do Reifags always feel the urge to compare Asukafags to the character herself? They seem to think it's a constructive psychological analysis but it really isn't, all it does is irritate them.
>>
>>121765892
>It's a good place, despite how people view it. This place has a bad rep. You can't get to say stuff from the liver unless it's in person too many places.
Do you perhaps like to be autistic on purpose, because you are autistic, so it's a way to make yourself more secure about yourself?
>>
>>121765558
It's not an interpretation insofar it's a stretch, it's the closest thing to the truth because we litereally have the narrative saying this exact thing, that the Asuka you see there isn't the real Asuka.
Even in instrumentality as she is yet again confronted, she screams that "NO, THAT'S NOT ME!"

I agree it's part of her personality to delude herself like that - which is my entire point. My secondary point is that the strength she has is feigned.
>>
>>121765902
What do you mean? Are you projecting or just talking out of your ass?
>>
>>121765902
Eternal butthurt due to fighting a losing war since forever.
>>
>>121765793
>Fighting Angels isn't adversity from Asuka's PoV, it's her raison d'etre this point

Fair enough.

>She's breaking, buckling.

With the descent arc, yeah.

>It's also not adversity, adversity is failing.

I was using it in the sense that it had more to do with a difficult situation. Looking it up, it can count as a misfortune or catastrophe, but I was not familiar with this usage.

>Those are all pretty much successes with a good dose of luck, some of which she needed to be saved

I think the only situation where that is applicable is the encounter with Sandalphon, which she went in alone anyhow.

>>121765883
Believe what you will, I'm not the 300 lb mess trying to say he could disarm an individual because of his biomass alone.
>>
>>121765958
>projecting
I don't think you know what that word means, and at any rate it doesn't apply here. Check this thread, check every Eva waifu war thread in the catalog.
>>
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>>121765883
Still better than a literal doormat, at least a tsundere bitch can show actual human emotions and can change over time.

>>121765958
This is bait
>>
>>121765493
>So if you had your mind-invaded, you'd consider it communication? You'd believed you weren't attacked?
Possibly, although it's hard to say for sure. It's little point in speculating about what the individual anon would react like in a fictional situation, what's more to the point is actually reciting the canonical material which does designate is as communcation.

I'd also like to reiterate my point that it is definitely unpleasant and is not experienced as an attack, but the reason for that does tie in with Asuka's own fragility and lack of self insight.
>>
>>121766020
I don't know, I'm not such a loser to have a waifu that is subject to such wars.
>>
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>>121766032
>
>>
>>121766040
>Possibly

Oh anon you make me laugh.

>is not experienced as an attack,

Tell that to Asuka. Whether or not it could be said to be a communication doesn't remove the fact it was an attack directed on Asuka.
>>
>>121747748
>simile everytime
It's like we didn't even watch the same show. Stop confusing your fanfiction with reality: Asska a shit.
>>
>>121766097
>Reifags

Truly cancer
>>
>>121766005
The descent arc is there for a reason. Reality is kicking her ass because she can't cope with it like the rest of the pilots can. It's a descent and not an ascent because unlike a strong person would be able to, to suffer through adversity and remain able to learn and improve,

You may think I'm expecting much, but the truth is that I don't expect anything whatsoever at all from Asuka. She's just a child, a self-deluded, immature one at that. I don't see any reason to pretend that she's more than that, save for a good character of course.

>I was using it in the sense that it had more to do with a difficult situation. Looking it up, it can count as a misfortune or catastrophe, but I was not familiar with this usage.
I see.

>I think the only situation where that is applicable is the encounter with Sandalphon, which she went in alone anyhow.
Gaghiel too, without Shinji she'd be nothing but b8. Sandalphon and the rest are team efforts.
>>
>>121766115
Attempt at communication, even.
>>
>>121765954
>that the Asuka you see there isn't the real Asuka
It is though. It's as much the real Asuka as the broken Asuka is. It's merely two facets of her personality, two sides that come out under different circumstances.

>it's part of her personality to delude herself like that
I don't think she's deluding herself in the sense that she's actually convinced. She's not convinced that she's great. She's in a constant fear of losing and being abandoned because of it. That is the whole reason for her behaviour.

The point is: we're on the same page here. What you claim I said is nothing I ever meant or implied, it's something you read into my post.
>>
>>121766115
I meant to say that it would be experienced as an attack, not that it wouldn't. A typo from me.

Regardless I maintain my "possibly" stance.
>>
>>121755487
opposites attract
>>
>>121765701
>The amount of physical trauma, the frequency of occurence, the situation they're in, and the psychological influence the Angel has for instance.
>They all exert the same influence. What triggers a bad reaction in Asuka but a strangely half-positive effect in Rei for instance is the characters own psyches. Asuka is weak because she can't confront her own problems so she just deny herself, because she can't handle the stress. Rei can handle said stress, and more. Shinji is in the middle somewhere.

You're bullshitting here. There's no objective measure for psychological trauma, and pretending that there is is idiotic.

>Being popular doesn't mean she has friends.

Fair enough.

>Coping by not coping is not coping. It's called self-delusion and it's bad.

I never said it was good, but a coping mechanism is a coping mechanism whether or not it is healthy. Addiction can be a coping mechanism, but it's extremely unhealthy.

>Which is given to her for free. By virtue of existing. It's not facing her own problems, it's having godlike intervention solve them for you.

Fair enough, though I will add the parts of Episodes 25 and 26 where Asuka does accept her problems in Instrumentality. I would also claim that her actions at the end of EoE are an acceptance of her faults, but that's highly debatable.

>She had good traits added in Rebuild.

Sure, but she's a worse character.

I'm not sure why you have such a drive to paint Asuka as weak; she's most certainly unhealthy, maybe even a bad person, but she suffers through a ton of shit, and the fact that it took her so long to break is astounding. This is true of nearly every character in Eva. So why is it that Asuka is particular is weak, particularly compared to Shinji?
>>
>>121766140
>The descent arc is there for a reason.
Again, no kidding.
>she can't cope with it like the rest of the pilots can.

I think cope is a strong word to use here, especially when you take into account how they all end up towards Instrumentality.

>Gaghiel too, without Shinji she'd be nothing but b8

Debatable, since in the manga she deals with it alone just fine, but that's in the manga.

>Sandalphon and the rest are team efforts.

As are the majority of Angels, save most of which Shinji face, regarding Sachiel, which Yui did the legwork on, Shamshel and a few others.
>>
>>121766151
The show tell you that it's a fake. It's not even debatable.
The strong asuka doesn't exist and never did. To be strong you need to just not waggle around in your own safe playground pretending you'res strong because you kick over a few sandcastles, you need to get punched and get up.

What arguably exists is the fake side of Asuka, as in it's just bark and no bite, bravado, hot farty air, an empty barrel making a lot of noise.


>I don't think she's deluding herself in the sense that she's actually convinced. She's not convinced that she's great. She's in a constant fear of losing and being abandoned because of it.
That would be the delusional part, the insistence that she must base her life on that. She has no individuality, no personality to entirely define herself by something external.

One of the bits of dialogue 2.0 did right, and I don't remember if this was said in NGE as well at this point, but it was said that "there are more things in life than piloting the EVA". Which is true.

>The point is: we're on the same page here. What you claim I said is nothing I ever meant or implied, it's something you read into my post.
Possibly, if so I apologize but I'm not quite sure how. There are some contradictions there between you and me that I did try to address, perhaps I didn't get that across as well.
>>
>>121755487
>>121766311
I'm fairly outgoing and I prefer tsunderes, the bitchier the better. I love seeing their walls being broken down and seeing their facial expressions.
>>
>>121766428
It's all anecdotal evidence anyhow, yours included.

While certain personality types can lend themselves to another, it isn't mandated. Use your head anon.
>>
>>121766340
>You're bullshitting here. There's no objective measure for psychological trauma, and pretending that there is is idiotic.
okay then. If you want to give up like that by denying any quantative measure, which is practice in psychology today, that's your choice.

It also means you'll concede any eventual point that Asuka in any way has it worse than anyone else on the globe, because there are no ways to objectively measure psychological trauma, so someone with slight trauma is equal to someone with severe trauma.

>I never said it was good, but a coping mechanism is a coping mechanism whether or not it is healthy. Addiction can be a coping mechanism, but it's extremely unhealthy.
I think it lies in the definition of the word that a confrontation or an address of whatever it is you're coping with is made - therefore ignoring it is not coping with it, because it does not confront anything. Maybe loosely defined you'd be right, but then the word loses it's practical meaning in this context.

We can forego using "cope" if you want, the point is at any rate that she's dealing with her issues by not confronting them, and doing everything in her mental power to dig deeper into delusion.

>Fair enough, though I will add the parts of Episodes 25 and 26 where Asuka does accept her problems in Instrumentality
Don't those fall under the same principle? It's instrumentality, it's the complementation of souls. It would be an automatic process of healing, to fill the voids in people's hearts.

>but that's highly debatable.
I'd disregard it entirely. It's something that even the author believes you should just make up on your own, i.e : there is no answer.

>she's a worse character.
Yep.

I'd call Asuka weak because unlike Shinji or the others, she doesn't face her problems. She's unable to hurt herself to improve herself, and instead she hurts others. She is weak because when confronted, she buckles and freaks out. The other's reactions varies, but they do learn.
>>
>>121766358
>The show tell you that it's a fake. It's not even debatable.
>The strong asuka doesn't exist and never did.
If you're under the impression I said that Asuka was confident, then you're not reading attentively.

>What arguably exists is the fake side of Asuka, as in it's just bark and no bite, bravado, hot farty air, an empty barrel making a lot of noise.
I wouldn't call her behaviour empty. After all, she's actually good at what she does. However, she's definitely overcompensating - and she does so due to her inferiority complex, her fear of being abandoned in case her performance is subpar.

What I'm saying is, that her initial behaviour, her overcompensation, her aggressiveness, her eagerness to insult, pick fights, etc. - all that is how her inferiority complex manifests in the beginning. This is nothing she gained throughout the show, it had been within her from the very beginning. She puts up a facade to hide it, but it's there nonetheless and in that regard, the facade - or rather - her behaviour to put up a facade is an aspect of her personality as well. You can't separate that from the broken Asuka you see later.
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>>121766344
>I think cope is a strong word to use here, especially when you take into account how they all end up towards Instrumentality.
How they end up isn't relevant; it's not a strong word to use, it's THE word to use. She's unable to cope because she doesn't even try.

>Debatable, since in the manga she deals with it alone just fine, but that's in the manga.
Different story, different Asuka.

>As are the majority of Angels, save most of which Shinji face, regarding Sachiel, which Yui did the legwork on, Shamshel and a few others.
Mhm, my point being of course that I wouldn't count them as adversity beyond the norm. Parts of them are, but never the facing of them in itself.
>>
>>121766588
>You can't separate that from the broken Asuka you see later.
Right, and I'm not trying to either. Like you said we're on the same page.

What I do separate from the character and person is that it's strong. It's eggshell painted with metal paint. It's not stronger because the facade of strength exists.
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>>121766624
>How they end up isn't relevant; it's not a strong word to use, it's THE word to use

Then you agree that by Instrumentality, concerning the children, all three have failed to cope adequately.

>Different story, different Asuka.

Not too different, actually. Keep in mind in both cases there was only one Unit active during the fight.

>Mhm, my point being of course that I wouldn't count them as adversity beyond the norm. Parts of them are, but never the facing of them in itself.

Well, your initial point stated that Asuka was unable to face any adversity, which was just untrue. Glad we could agree on that.
>>
>>121766686
As I said earlier: I never implied that Asuka was strong. Her frailty is what people like about her.
>>
>>121766571
>I'd call Asuka weak because unlike Shinji or the others, she doesn't face her problems.

I'll start this by saying that Shinji doesn't face his problems until Instrumentality either, so that would mean that he is weak just like Asuka.

>She's unable to hurt herself to improve herself, and instead she hurts others.

No one improves themselves, they all just move to different coping (or non-coping) mechanisms like Ritsuko's cats, Misato's alcoholism, Gendo's planning, and Shinji's self-isolation.

>okay then. If you want to give up like that by denying any quantative measure, which is practice in psychology today, that's your choice.

Perhaps I should pick a different angle here- there is a difference between the Children's level of trauma, but it is ultimately insignificant. They all go through far more than any normal person would be able to handle, and all but Rei inevitably break down entirely due to it.

>I'd disregard it entirely. It's something that even the author believes you should just make up on your own, i.e : there is no answer.

I'll drop this, but I think simply declaring that there is no answer is a bit too simplistic and easy. That said, I can't definitively argue about it past my own interpretations, so I won't tackle it if you don't want to.
>>
Leliel and Armisael attacks weren't as mind harmful as Arael. Even with Armisael attack being the most dangerous (fatal), it was directed in a phsysical plane rather than a mental one.

Leliel and Armisael attacks were directed to the body, with eventual contact of the Angel with the pilot's mind, which lead to the pilot's introspection.
Arael attack was directed to the mind, which avoided the possibility of the pilot at least prepare physically to it.
>>
>>121747344
>rei a shit
>asuka less a shit
got it?
>>
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Asuka is probably the most misunderstood female character in any anime, both by the fans and by other characters. The waifufags in particular seem to miss the point by a mile.
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>>121767244
Rei is less of a shit than Asuka so I do not follow.
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>>121764890
I gotta agree with you there. I'm really not into the bullshit with Waifu wars, I honestly like all of the characters, most of them I can relate with.
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>>121767245
Are you one of those closeted Asukafags, hates-own-kind , "I understand more than the rest." sorta deal?

I don't disagree with all at what you've put forth, but I've seen the same thing proclaimed so many times it's starting to get banal and rub me the wrong way.
>>
>>121747344
Rewatched Eva this weekend

Rei is a doll and/or just didn't get enough screen time and interactions to establish character, only cares about dudes her save her life

Rebuilds focused a little more on her and made her more like-able
she tries to bring shinji and gendo together, showing some maternal or filial desires in her

Asuka 2.0 was literally a doll and committed sudoku with her mom

Asuka 1.0 had mommy issues and needed a good dose of the D
She's like-able because of >>121747584, her sexual curiosity, but mostly because we can empathize with her

Just like Shinji sought his fathers approval, she sought approval from her own father, who abandoned her, and alpha male figures ie Shinji and Kaji

Kaji is a pretty cool guy he does spy shit and doesn't afraid of anything.
But he wasn't cool enough to stick his peepee into a 14yr old girl

Before she met shinji in person she only heard about how much of a bawler he is by killing an angel with his bare-hands, another with just a knife, and another he 360 no-scoped(it really happened in the series) miles away.
She wanted to prove to Shinji she can be just as good when they first met, but she failed.
Everytime she tried getting Shinji's attention she failed; kissing scene, thermal expansion scene, and she was really upset Shinji didn't rush out to save her from Arael(mind rape orbit angel)

Reifags can't handle pain and avoid it

Asukafags can empathize and want to overcome pain by going through it

Misatofags want to overcome pain by being self-destructive

Shinji went through these three "phases" and that's why he's best girl
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>>121767364
At all with what you've put forth* rather.
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>>121767378
>alpha male figures ie Shinji
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>>121767378
>Asuka 1.0
>alpha male figures ie Shinji
I like you
>>
>>121767364
I honestly can't answer that. I don't really dislike her and I don't really understand myself.
>>
>>121767522
Somewhere in the ship/waifu wars, it was realized that one way to make your ship or waifu look better was to attack an opposing ship or waifu. So, we end up with people convinced that they can only like one of the female characters in Eva, when in truth you can like all of them. In fact, some would claim you should like all of them.

This is especially problematic because now if you ever try to praise or disparage a particular aspect of one of those characters you get written off as a waifufag, thus making conversation less interesting. It's not a good place to be.
>>
>>121766756
>Then you agree that by Instrumentality, concerning the children, all three have failed to cope adequately.
No, since throughout the series they do acknowledge and address their own problems at the conscious level.
An addition is that Rei's own self-confrontation takes place outside instrumentality.

>Not too different, actually.
It is different because she does it alone as opposed to cooperating.

>Well, your initial point stated that Asuka was unable to face any adversity, which was just untrue. Glad we could agree on that.
My point was that Asuka is unable to face adversity as far as failures go. Not just trying something hard. She can try, but if she fails she breaks. The test lies in failing and not breaking.

>>121766778
Which I must counter with the obvious fact that asuka fans as witnessed in this thread spend a serious amount of energy denying, or at least equalizing.

When we consider Rebuild it gets worse because the more different asuka becomes from asuka, the more asuka fans take to her according to all available census data. You might not, I might not, but we can't speak for the fanbase at large.

>>121766995
>I'll start this by saying that Shinji doesn't face his problems until Instrumentality either, so that would mean that he is weak just like Asuka.
Wrong, see above.

>No one improves themselves,
Yes, they do. Shinji is able to communicate more, Rei is also able to do so, and they meet a part of themselves which acknowledge they have a problem. Call it tiny if you will, but it's there.

>but it is ultimately insignificant.
No. That in itself is the test of strength, their endurance in the face of adversity. More than making use of NERV's expensive toys, that is the true test of character.
>>
>>121767180
Armisael's attack is both physical and mental. It enters Rei's mind and speaks with her.

If you put Rei beneath Arael, she'd have a similar reaction to the one she had against Armisael, the bonus point being that Rei could be able to survive, and she might even retreat as would be logical to do at that point.

Leliel is more dangerous because it has taken Shinji into it's body, and Shinji will die unless he is saved. He was saved, luckily for him.
>>
>>121767378
wow.

>asukafags
>>
>>121767723
>No, since throughout the series they do acknowledge and address their own problems at the conscious level.
>My point was that Asuka is unable to face adversity as far as failures go. Not just trying something hard. She can try, but if she fails she breaks. The test lies in failing and not breaking.

Which one is it then? First you say they all face their problems, then you say she's unable to face adversity, which we've brought down to the contextual level as her internal concerns.

>It is different because she does it alone as opposed to cooperating.

What I'm getting at is that isn't a stretch to believe she'd be capable of doing the same, given the differences between her in the manga and the anime.
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>>121767833
Quality post there, way to chip in.
>>
>>121767723
>No, since throughout the series they do acknowledge and address their own problems at the conscious level.

Shinji doesn't until Instrumentality, so if it doesn't count for Asuka it doesn't count for him either.

>Shinji is able to communicate more

In what ways? Can you give me some specific instances? And you didn't even mention the other characters I brought up.

>but it is ultimately insignificant.
>No. That in itself is the test of strength, their endurance in the face of adversity. More than making use of NERV's expensive toys, that is the true test of character.

Sorry, I don't follow here. The quote doesn't make sense and neither does your response.
>>
>>121767833
>>121767932
If you're either >>121767460
>>121767432
you can just shut up.

This guy is a fucking retard. >hurr asuka only needs the dick
>kaji wasn't cool cause he didn't fuck a 14 year old

worst delusional case ITT.
>>
>>121767833
implying I don't like Misato the most
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>>121767996
It's so obvious who you are, it's not even funny.
>>
>>121767996
>This guy is a fucking retard

Jesus Christ Sherlock you just may be onto something here.
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>>121753919
>But she is not a character who could have any sort of romantic interest or involvement.
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>>121767861
>Which one is it then? First you say they all face their problems, then you say she's unable to face adversity
Read the entire sentences. Adversity as far as failures go.
The important bit at the end, there was even a semantic quip about it earlier and my meaning with it has been clarified to the point where there no longer can be any doubt provided you read the entire sentence.

>What I'm getting at is that isn't a stretch to believe she'd be capable of doing the same, given the differences between her in the manga and the anime.
It's a stretch, because Asuka in the Manga is an overtly idealized character capable of doing ninja backflips and martial arts. In NGE, Asuka defeats the angel thanks to Shinji's assistance, through a cheesy and contrived plan.

>>121767977
>Shinji doesn't until Instrumentality, so if it doesn't count for Asuka it doesn't count for him either.
Shinji does, he addresses them and therefore is a step or ten in front of asuka. Instrumentality for Shinji becomes the climax of his own character where it is all wrapped up.

>In what ways? Can you give me some specific instances? And you didn't even mention the other characters I brought up.
He can hold a two-way conversation, relating of himself and polling from others. Asuka doesn't ask people what they feel or what they think, she merely gives opinions. Negative ones at that, much of the time.

The other characters such as Misato is able to address her feelings with Kaji, and point out what she's doing and that it's her that's the issue. "No, the one that wants intimacy is me...."
Rei should be obvious, she's a powerpoint of addressing her own issues or a like a poetry reading in some cases.

>Sorry, I don't follow here. The quote doesn't make sense and neither does your response.
It makes sense, read it again.
It's as simple as that you need to fail and get up, react and show your character to be strong.
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>>121747344
rei is shinji's mom
>>
>>121768026
You could like the pope for all care, you dumb nigga.

>>121768050
The fuck are you on about?
>>
>>121768188
>He can hold a two-way conversation, relating of himself and polling from others.

This was never Shinji's problem though. He shows himself of being capable of this from the beginning with Misato. His problem was his fear of close interpersonal relationships due to a fear of pain. He never tackles this problem until Instrumentality.

>It makes sense, read it again.
>It's as simple as that you need to fail and get up, react and show your character to be strong.

Okay, I understand, but you're quote still didn't make any sense.
>>
>>121768414
That he grows closer with people shows that progress however miniscule, exists. That he also can be open about his fears shows you that he's ahead of Asuka.
If you want to say that Shinji was better than Asuka since the start, that's probably true too.

>Okay, I understand, but you're quote still didn't make any sense.
>you're
To you maybe.
>>
>>121768155
She was blushing because Shinji says she has motherly hands. She is the result of the merger of the DNA of the mother of all life on earth and his mother. She finds it humorous and she can't tell him why it is funny.
>>
>>121767723
>Which I must counter with the obvious fact that asuka fans as witnessed in this thread spend a serious amount of energy denying, or at least equalizing.
I've already told you: what you perceive as denying is you misunderstanding what people are saying.
>>
>>121768188
>Read the entire sentences. Adversity as far as failures go.

It doesn't matter, you can't say that they all face and acknowledge their problems, and then flip off and say Asuka can't handle failure, because you just said she does eventually.
>It's a stretch, because Asuka in the Manga is an overtly idealized character capable of doing ninja backflips and martial arts

It isn't like she kicked Shinji's face in at one point, though I'm fairly certain that was Rebuild.

I think she's at least somewhat nimble. Anyhow, I think she would have been able to do it by herself in NGE. Though, we can only speculate. The whole reason she dragged Shinji in was to show-off too, so she certainly believed she could.
>>
>>121768605
She even know that she is a clone of Yui at this point?
>>
>>121768673
She always knew. She may not be the most expressive person but she is not a moron, she knows her origins
>>
>>121768514
At first, certainly. And I do think it's fair to say that Shinji is a stronger character than Asuka. But once things start really going to hell things start tumbling down pretty damn quickly. We see this minor growth in Asuka too though; she seems to get along at least somewhat better with Shinji, Misato, and even Rei in the middle arc. Just like Shinji though, once things start going to hell it all falls apart.
>>
>>121768646
>I've already told you: what you perceive as denying is you misunderstanding what people are saying.
Apparently not. You're interested in saying that's the case. There is no misunderstanding.

>>121768664
>It doesn't matter, you can't say that they all face and acknowledge their problems, and then flip off and say Asuka can't handle failure, because you just said she does eventually.
Of course not, that's not what I said either.

Also, of course it matters that you deliberately misquote me not just once, but twice.

>It isn't like she kicked Shinji's face in at one point,
She kicked some local thugs in the face and various other places in the manga.

Manga Asuka is different.

>I think she's at least somewhat nimble.
No proof of that in NGE.

>Anyhow, I think she would have been able to do it by herself in NGE. Though, we can only speculate
In your case, performing baseless conjecture.

Believing she could != being able to do so.
>>
>>121768664
Isn't like she didn't I mean to say
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>>121768719
>she is not a moron
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>>121768799
>Apparently not. You're interested in saying that's the case. There is no misunderstanding.
Point me to the posts then and I'll tell you where you're wrong.
>>
>>121768735
>At first, certainly. And I do think it's fair to say that Shinji is a stronger character than Asuka.
Then we can lay that to rest.

I don't see any growth in asuka. Acclimatization, and she never gets along with Rei as far as I see.
>>
>>121768605
That too, but she also does very much want to mate with Shinji.
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>>121768815
Alright, I admit, she's socially retarded. But she knows more than she lets on is basically what I mean. And she was reading that German book in that one episode

Yeah, she's not the brightest bulb. There I said it
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>>121768932
Who doesn't?
>>
>>121768884
>I don't see any growth in asuka. Acclimatization, and she never gets along with Rei as far as I see.

Well I guess I can't make you see it. If you want an example though, they seem to get along somewhat in the ramen scene, At any rate, they don't interact much and a lot of said interaction is negative.

Also, I find it a bit odd that you draw such a sharp line between growth and acclimatization.
>>
>>121768799
>Also, of course it matters that you deliberately misquote me not just once, but twice.

Do I need to spell things out for you?

Here are your posts

>No, since throughout the series they do acknowledge and address their own problems at the conscious level.

>My point was that Asuka is unable to face adversity as far as failures go

How do you not see how these originally contradicted eachother? Are you trying to save face?

>She kicked some local thugs in the face and various other places in the manga.

Yeah, the scene with the crane game, I've read up until 13, I wouldn't have brought manga Asuka if I hadn't read most of it.

>Manga Asuka is different.

Yeah, like being the product of eugenic breeding.

>In your case, performing baseless conjecture.

So you're telling me that the manga Asuka which parallels the anime Asuka in many ways would be sporting an athleticism lacking in her anime version? Is that really a safe assumption to make?

Maybe a little, considering her origins, but I feel "idealized" is highly exxagerated. If you can't see why that is, then I'm not going to go further with you on this point.
>>
>>121768864
What an absurd premise. Like I said you're intent on denying it for biased reasons, saying you'll deny it regardless of what it is.

It permeates the enitre thread, from claiming that Asuka's mindrape was somehow much worse than Shinji or Rei's, or that the issues she has are purely external. There's no point in referring to a specifc point since it forms the majority of the discussion early on.
>>
>>121768991
You can't possibly call getting invited out to eat ramen by misato, or even having party for Misato in her apartment is somehow growth. Shinji actually shows some growth here as this is one point (the party) where he addresses his own issues.
>>
>>121769061
Fair enough, I'm probably reaching too far here. Can you remind me of the specific event in which Shinji grows though?
>>
>>121769015
>How do you not see how these originally contradicted eachother? Are you trying to save face?
I honestly can't see how they contradict each other.
>>
>>121769016
>What an absurd premise.
It's a very reasonable premise because if you claim people said something you should easily be able to point me where they did. A few examples would suffice.

>claiming that Asuka's mindrape was somehow much worse than Shinji or Rei's
We've been through that. Whether something is "worse" cannot be globally measured because that depends on the individual. Asuka, due to her past, was weaker against this sort of thing thus it's reasonable to say that the whole thing hit Asuka worst, simply because she ended up attempting to kill herself because of it.

>it forms the majority of the discussion early on.
No, it does not. You're the only one who's been claiming that throughout the discussion but you've never been able to back it up.
>>
>>121769015
There's no contradiction here. They aren't even the same thing, both are equally true. Asuka does not address her own problems as the conscious level, the first truly being during her encounter with Instrumentality and arguably with Arael where they are being forced to the front.

A lot of bad things happen with Asuka, but she lacks self-insight (because she fears looking inside) enough to address her own problems or face them.
The second one is another truth: whenever Asuka faces adversity as far as failures go, she buckles. She can try a difficult twister game, but when it becomes clear it's she that's failing once Rei shows her how to do it right, she exits stage left sulking.

>Yeah, like being the product of eugenic breeding.
Technically insignificant, only a background trait you can speculate about - the actual character is different.

>So you're telling me that the manga Asuka which parallels the anime Asuka in many ways would be sporting an athleticism lacking in her anime version? Is that really a safe assumption to make?
Very much so. There's many different things in Rebuild, including but not limited to an insane timeloop near the ending and what you mentioned, that asuka is the product of eugenics breeding.
Toji also has midichlorians.

It's idealized because Asuka ends up being portrayed as stronger at high levels (doing ninja backflips, come the fuck on), and she lacks the character portion to back it up. It's also a happier story overall for her.
>>
>>121769152
Well, I can't really make it more visible than how it's presented, because then it'll look like I'm trying to put words in your mouth, assuming you're the same guy.

Anyhow, since you're probably not:

>They do acknowledge and address their own problems at the conscious level
>My point was that Asuka is unable to face adversity as far as failures go

One of Asuka's problem is coming to terms with failure. To say that all pilots acknowledge and address their problems would, by nature of the first quote which I agree with, entail that Asuka eventually does come to terms with her problems.

I can't really paint the discrepancy clearer than this, so if there's still a miscommunication, then we'll just leave it be, since it was said here >>121768799 that we're on the same page.
>>
>>121769391
That's the closest that girl will ever get to winning.
>>
>>121769174
>It's a very reasonable premise because if you claim people said something you should easily be able to point me where they did. A few examples would suffice.
Like I said I'd be repeating myself.

What's the point in going further

>We've been through that.
Yes and you lost. Case in point, Asuka is weaker than the other two. If you exert x amount of stress on Asuka, she buckles. while Rei and Shinji do not.

This is another example of how you twist reality, proving my point about you and everyone like you. All this rationalization to put forth the idea that Asuka isn't weak and it isn't fair to compare her with others, even though Rei, Shinji have arguably been through worse and in the case of Shinji is less prepared for these things.
>>
>>121769360
There isn't a discrepancy you buffoon. Asuka never addresses her problems until she's forced to. That's the point. The entire point that you're missing.

I hope you're not an Asukafag because you don't even like the real character.
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>>121769414
Please watch EoE and read the manga.
>>
>>121769414
thats the closet to being German too. We see say like 2 lines of German.
>>
They have been arguing for 6 Hours, and he even said he had a "nice life" lmao.
>>121769488
>>121769414
>samefagging
what's the point if it's so obvious.
>>
>>121769415
>Like I said I'd be repeating myself.
No, you wouldn't be repeating yourself, you're repeating yourself right now, making again empty claims without backing them up with actual quotes in this thread. You've had the time to look them up just now rather than writing this post - actually repeating yourself.

>Case in point, Asuka is weaker than the other two. If you exert x amount of stress on Asuka, she buckles. while Rei and Shinji do not.
Which is the exact point you worthless subhuman. She was hit worse because she can't deal with the stress comparably well.

>All this rationalization to put forth the idea that Asuka isn't weak
Again: nobody is under the impression that Asuka isn't weak, this takes place all inside your head.
>>
>>121769521
Terribly mispronounced German, even.
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>>121769296
>Asuka does not address her own problems as the conscious level

See >>121769360
where I quoted you saying, literally
>They do acknowledge and address their own problems at the conscious level

Give it up, you wrote it yourself.

>Technically insignificant, only a background trait you can speculate about

Except you say right here
>and what you mentioned, that asuka is the product of eugenics breeding.
implying that it may not be so insignificant. Don't do these about faces, it's poor form.

>including but not limited to an insane timeloop near the ending

Irrelevant because the facekick comes in 2.0 pre-timeskip that loosely follows the events of the original.

>It's idealized because Asuka ends up being portrayed as stronger at high levels (doing ninja backflips, come the fuck on), and she lacks the character portion to back it up. It's also a happier story overall for her.

You can insinuate that, but just because it has parts that are idealized doesn't implicitly suggest that she doesn't possess a similar athleticism or capability in the anime.

>(doing ninja backflips, come the fuck on)

So she's idealized in the anime too, when in EoE she flips Unit-02 high in the sky, with a flair? Let's be fair here anon.
>>
>>121769488
You were probably wondering why Shinji strangled Asuka as soon as he spotted her. It had nothing to do with hedgehogs dilemma, he was just pissed that Rei disappeared and he was stuck with the tsundere whore.
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>>121769522
Come again?
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>>121769586
I've seen intoxicated fishermen put more effort in their bait than yours.
>>
why not both?
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>>121769586
Nigga, if he wanted to fuck Rei so badly, he could have just swam that see of tang to masturbate over Lilith's giant ass corpse.
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>>121769654
>sees truth
>truth hurts his stance
>calls it bait
>???
>profit
>>
>>121769586
Honestly I wonder what the fuck is going on with Asukas head at that point. She 'loves' shinji enough to let him strangle her yet she is disgusted by him.
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>>121769663
Polygamy is for heretics.
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>>121769663
Why not a better girl?
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>>121769663
Too 3D. How disgusting.
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>>121769586
>It had nothing to do with hedgehogs dilemma
Maybe he wanted some rings.
>>
>>121769713
Do you think she would just lie there and take it as someone fucks her?
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>>121769749
You're confusing Hikari with Rei.
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>>121769692
What about this, then?
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>>121769553
>She was hit worse because she can't deal with the stress comparably well.
Because she is weak, not because the attacks are more severe.

>Again: nobody is under the impression that Asuka isn't weak, this takes place all inside your head.
Anon referred to earlier did, abstracting away the internal weakness of Asuka to being purely external, complete with non-working analogies.
Nothing you say can say otherwise, even if you're just doing damage control at this point.
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>>121769769
With either it would be great.
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>>121769786
No, I'm an Asukafag, sorry.
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>>121769692
I agree, reduce the number to two. That solves everything
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>>121769802
Fuck off Toji, you died.
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>>121769787
>Because she is weak, not because the attacks are more severe.
We're talking about the end result here. Whether the attack is worse or not is something you can't possibly quantify.

>Anon referred to earlier did
Link me to his posts then. You've been arguing with me for a while too, misinterpreting my posts most of time. Who tells me he didn't suffer the same fate?

If you want to prove a point, quote the fucking post you retard.
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