I don't get it. Even though UBW is faster than GoB, Gilgamesh

Type Moon is nonsensical shit and water is quite wet. Thank you for your contribution OP

>>120371003
You explain it the way Nasu explains all the plot holes.
Multiple universes.

>>120371003
You also forget shirou is linked to archer and becomes stronger the more they stay close.

Except the VN explicitly says that Gil is a terrible swordsman.

Gil isn't much of a fighter, he just uses GoB.
Shirou is linked to Archer so he is strong.

It's like you didn't even read it.

Doesn't Shirou have a boost to his battle capabilities depending on which weapon he picks? I remember reading something like the weapons moving almost as if they were doing on their own based on their previous experiences.

>>120371003
Every weapon that Shirou/Archer traces gives them a boost to use it like the original wielders.

>>120371328
And every NP gets their rank decreased by one. Power levels, blah blah.

>>120371649
>I can't read so I'll just write powerlevl bla bla bla in order not to look dumb
The novel gives a big explanation about how he could win.

>>120371649
>And every NP gets their rank decreased by one
Your point?

>>120371649
>And every NP gets their rank decreased by one
That doesn't really matter much in this case.

>>120371003
And Gil is going to do what? Run to Shirou with his superspeed and rip him with his bare hands?

Shirou's weapon's move on autopilot anyway; shitty compared to any other heroic spirit but enough to beat a chump like gil,

>>120371811
He should just use his doctor powers.

>>120371811
A swing from Gil would be enough to shatter Shirou's arm

Was Gil even actually swordplay fighting like, ever? He always just uses gate or whips out OP Ea and reks everything without need to any sword skills. Maybe he was actually fighting Saber like that in Fate, but I don't recall precisely

>>120371003
Gil is more used to using different weapons than swordplay such as his Axe in the epic. He also just spams GoB and whips out EA when things look bad.

>>120375448
>>120375847
That doesn't matter, he's still physically stronger than Shirou. By a lot.

>>120373519
Source needed

>>120375908
Speak of the devil, Shirou can project the strength needed for a weapon. (see: NLBW)

Shirou is basically a superhuman inside of his RM. He gets all the upsides of UBW (stronger body, regeneration) without any of the downsides (muscle tearing, swords sticking out of him, soul destruction)

>>120375908
Well, that might not matter as much in nasuverse where people do "suprise attacks" "get lucky" "opponent underestimates enemy", but sure Shirou shouldn't be as good as a servant, at best he should be at avenger levels.

Shirou downloads the skill and strength of the wielder of the weapons, which in most cases are better than Gilgamesh.
Due to having a bunch of non-magus orphans as his "master" at the moment, his stats are actually only generically average.

>>120376053
Source please? Haven't heard about that

>>120371266
It's something like he has the muscle memory as if he used the weapon before, he can do it but its mostly instinctual.

>>120371003
it's noted in the scene that Shirou just has the momentum to push Gil back because Gil was surprised and is now on the defensive, if Gil regained his composure Shirou would have been fucked. Gil pulling out EA was actually a decent move as presumably due to its rank it couldn't be broken like the rest of the weapons he used against Shirou, his mistake was using it too late.

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But, can Shiro beat this motherfucker?

>>120376444
What happens when two swords clash?

>>120371003
When Shirou traces something, he acquires the parameters of the original owner.

Well, it's less like "Shirou gets stronger" and more like "the sword takes Shirou along for the ride, and as the one who produced it he acquires the conditions necessary to use it", ergo the parameters.

Doesn't mean his body can keep it up for long though. He's still in a weak flesh body that'll tear itself apart by virtue of doing that.

>>120376444
Shirou throw swords with superglue.
Shishika deflect them, but they sticks to him.

Shishika has swords, he can't fight anymore.

>>120376760
He can use reinforcement on his body to somewhat replicate someones stats but it isn't automatic.

I think the only time he actually does it is during nine lives and technically its archers arm that does it.

>>120371003
Shirou can project fast enough to negate Gate of Babylon, and is a much better swordsman. Gil can only retreat, he knows he can't counterattack quickly enough to not just get sliced in half when Shirou closes the distance (which essentially happens anyway when he takes a second to pull out Ea).

>>120376053
This is just wrong
His body is not significantly more durable than an ordinary human's and his regeneration is due to Avalon.The "downsides" only happen in Heaven's Feel and that's specifically due to the effects of his mind being obliterated from trying to control Archer's arm and Archer's UBW going out of control inside of him the more he pulls from it.
Neither has anything to do with his own UBW.

>>120376913
>but it isn't automatic.
No it isn't reinforcement he traces skills and shit, see Caliburn in Fate and NLBW.

>>120376913
It's not reinforcement. Well, technically nothing Shirou does is reinforcement (or projection). It's just how tracing works.

If it was Reinforcement he'd die in an instant. Reinforcing a living being to that degree is beyond Medea, let alone Shirou. Medea can't make Kuzuki Herc-level in combat.

>>120376942
Nah, it's the inner world overwhelming the outer world. There's a bad end in Fate route when he jumps out of the window, hits the ground, his body turns to swords trying to knit itself together but he's already dead.

>>120376820
That's fucking genius.

>>120377108
What if Shirou traces a Shishika

>>120376984
Skills yes as he traces the history of the weapon as well. stats no, The stats come from reinforcement.

It would be stupid for him to gain stats from tracing the weapon as the stats would be from the hero not the weapon.

>>120377189
>It would be stupid for him to gain stats from tracing the weapon as the stats would be from the hero not the weapon.
Well that's how it works, it's not reinforcement. The weapons he traces move on their own like their wielder when he wields them. The reason he uses K&B is because they have no true wielder.

>>120376942
>Shirou can project fast enough to negate Gate of Babylon
Is this true? Because Shirou swords have lower quality than the originals.

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>>120377452
Within UBW, yes
Read the VN

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>>120377056
You could get technical and say it's Sword-reinforcement instead of Fire-,Water-,Earth,Air-,Ether- reinforcement

>>120377452
Yes, that's the entire point of the fight. The only reason he can overpower Gil is that he can retrieve swords faster.

>>120377502
I am, just started, F S/N is taking my first time with VNs. P-please be gentle, plot.

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>>120377608
Shirou is the red man

>>120377608
Get out of these threads

>>120377588
Even if it were sword reinforcement Medea could still have outdone it, but she can't. It's an aspect of tracing which happens to be very similar to an existing standard form of magic, just like his "projection" is.

>>120377713
>Medea could still have outdone it
Why?
I'm pretty sure she doesn't have a sword alignment

>>120377766
>I didn't read HA
She doesn't use "magecraft", she "tells reality to do her will". It's not sorcery, but she's not restricted by elements. She still can't use magic for good, though.

>>120372160
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imrC3HWwCDU

>>120377766
Reinforcement isn't something limited to sword wizards

>>120376444
>Guy whose entire fighting style is about destroying swords
>Guy whose entire fighting style is about creating swords
Not even a close fight.

>>120377833
I sometimes wonder whether I will ever make sense of Nasu's writing.
>>120377882
look at that image.
Reinforcement works different for depending on your alignment

>>120377588
So Rin can use all 5?

>>120377911
>I sometimes wonder whether I will ever make sense of Nasu's writing.
It's more about shitty translations that don't consider cultural differences between how abstract things are worded between japanese and english.

>>120377911
>Reinforcement works different for depending on your alignment

The exact effects of which are unknown. It says 'looks similar but are different'. Different how? And why would you come to the conclusion that sword reinforcement is therefore superior to other elements?

>>120377928
yes.

>>120377911
>Reinforcement works different for depending on your alignment
So...what?

Can a normal human buff himself to servant level with only magecraft?

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>>120377994
Swords > everything else
I mean what is even Sky? You can't stab people with Sky.

>>120378120
No. If we're talking demi-sorcerers, though, yes.

>>120378120
considering Rin did a sorcery they can do anything

>>120378139
>I mean what is even Sky?
>An element which makes up celestial bodies that is newly added as a fifth element to the four great elements of earth, water, fire, and wind. This is, in other words, Ether.
Ether the basis for all magecraft

>>120378120
No?

>>120376444
When Shirou would enter UBW then Shichika would just destroy all the swords inside UBW.

See 2:16 - 2:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdsDg87UimA

>>120378120
Depends. Rin fought off Medea with reinforcement and she is a servant.

>>120371003
Is an eroge...

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>>120378358
>muh magus pride

Nasu's fucked in the head when it comes to things like this, but I've been telling myself it's because NP attacks override other stats just slightly. The guy said that a C rank NP, on average, hits as hard as an A rank Strength attack. Didn't matter that his arms were comparatively made of spaghetti and he was moving at a snail's pace, he was firing guns so big that Gil had to defend, especially because he didn't have his armor on.

>>120378420
Or you know, tracing weapons also boosts his stats, like people have been saying this whole time, and as people say every time this question is brought up.

Gil was also losing his mana faster since Kirei was dead, cutting off his source of mana replenishment. Meanwhile Shirou didn't have to worry about that since he's not a Servant.

>>120378420
This>>120378476
Proof is in the VN anyways, what's so hard to get?

>>120378545
I don't think that was really an issue, GoB doesn't take up much mana, especially compared to UBW. Gil has the orphan batteries anyway.

>>120378545
Ignore this post this guy doesn't know what he is talking about. First of all Gil already resurrected and second the children supply him with mana.

So who pays for/cleans up the damage done in the city by Berserker, wrecking the streets?
Who paid for the damages when Rin shot up the school?

Also why doesn't Shirou's school shut down classes when such conflict is happening?

School would shut down in America if someone even brought a knife to school.

>>120378564
Not really, your supposed proof is Attributed to Archers arm and Specifically to Archers arm.

>>120378668

The church.
Fate/Zero even briefly goes over how they have to rapidly purchase two F-15s to refit into F-15Js to replace the ones destroyed by Caster.

>>120378694
Archer's magic is literally the same as Shirou's magic, they work the same way.

>>120378694
What is caliburn you dumbass. Also stop being so fucking stupid Archer's arm is just future Shirou's arm.