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>Literally never has a plan, even yells that at Kotomine in

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>Literally never has a plan, even yells that at Kotomine in their fight during Fate
>Poor combat sense most of the time
>Inherently rash as a person
>Fights like a really weak Berserker
>Grows up, develops a highly methodical fighting style that emphasizes technique and strategy, plus a set of super powers that require strategy and skill to be useful

You lost me. That is not how a person's skills would develop.
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Total lack of forethough. Fate is worthless.
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>>119986762
I used to focus on offense. Then I realized I'm better at controlling space and have high defense. Now instead of throwing myself at someone constantly I just sit back and defend their attacks until they leave huge openings and punish them accordingly
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Explain further
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>>119986992
>I'm a fat neckbeard on /a/.
Fix'd for accuracy.
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>>119987046
OP is talking about Shirou and Archer, anon. Hope that helps.
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>>119986762
Actually his combat sense is rather sharp. Plus EMIYA and Shirou are not from the same timeline. The Shirou that turned into Archer probably had a different route of getting the experience and fighting style, then taught it to Shirou by mistake cause lolmagics.
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>tfw the joke dojo scenes were actually foreshadowing for Sparks Liner High

Sorry Saber, what's that about no such thing as special attacks?
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>>119987157
He would have won too, if his mind lasted for about 1 more minute.
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>>119987077
What does being fat with a full grown beard have to do with anything?
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>>119987390
Like, literally not even a minute, 4 seconds.
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It's the shit he gained for being a Servant. He'd still be a combat retard if he wasn't a Servant
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Well he went from not knowing what a Grail War is to being on the front lines of one within a few days, it's not that surprising he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. Given his personality on other situations it's not odd that he'd be more methodical when he has the chance.
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>>119987390
>Landed the final blow in the duel which completely disabled his opponent
Meh, he did win, Saber was just being a sore loser. I always registered Shirou as the winner of that duel, I thought it was pretty stupid when Alter figured she won because he didn't land a permanent killing blow. She didn't land one either. And he out-skilled her.

Alter is just a sore loser.
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>>119987559
Saber in general is a sore loser.
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>>119987513
that's not how it works, you idiot
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>>119986992
I actually burst out laughing when I read that. Congratulations.
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>>119987513
That makes no sense.
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>>119987513
That makes no sense.
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>>119987559
>>119987662
>>119987390

I thought saber is supposed to be one of if not the most skilled swords man

How is an archer able to match her? And if he is so good then why is he always an archer and not a saber?>>119987462
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>>119987712
>>119987713
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>>119987744
>I thought saber is supposed to be one of if not the most skilled swords man
Who is Lancelot?
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>>119986762
Well he did have an eternity to improve his skills. Just because you only see the retard and the end result doesn't mean that there wasn't anything in between.
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>>119987763
>one of
>hurr but there's someone better
Learn to read
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>>119987744
She got wrecked by a fucking wraith trying to kill a swallow his entire life. Most skilled my ass.
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>>119987744
On pure sword skill alone he can't match her, he is just very clever, and has one really broken sword technique.
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>>119986762
>>Literally never has a plan, even yells that at Kotomine in their fight during Fate
Strategy? Maybe not. Tactics? Yes. Heck the first encounter with Lancer, Shirou shows use of a few tecniques and forethought during the encounter.
>Poor combat sense most of the time
That's blatantly false.
>Inherently rash as a person
Nope. He knows the consequences of his actions, he's just hard headed and sticks with his decisions.
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>>119987744
>And if he is so good then why is he always an archer and not a saber?
He doesn't have high enough stats to be Saber, that's the only reason.
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>>119986762
>Grows up
Solved your own dilemma, OP.
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>>119987709
I don't get it, what's so funny about it?
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>>119987840
Saber is noted to be an extremely skilled swordsman multiple times throughout FSN and F/Z. The fact that Assassin can keep up with her is a testament to how good he is.
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>>119987744
because a big part of determining the class of a Servant is if they can fit the body that is just a container for their soul.

a Saber needs a sword attached to their identity, but they must also be renowned as a spirit of the sword, so even Gil with Ea can't be Saber, since the idea of using Ea as a regular sword is stupid

EMIYA is not someone associated with any particular weapon of his own, but can use his projections as disposable projecticles, so he qualifies as an Archer, just like Gil who uses his weapons like projectiles.

in theory he could also qualify as Caster since he is a magus, but Caster was already summoned at that time and he might not even have good compability with the class
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>>119987763
>>119987838
Doesn't Lancelot get fucking attack bonuses against Arturia?
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>>119987963
Yes, but he is more skilled than her even before you take that in. Saber can only beat him using Excalibur's beam most likely
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>>119987963
Arondight does have bonus against the dragons.
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>>119987938
Literally any Asian Saber exceed Arthuria in skill alone. Saying that Saber is one of the best in skill is stupid. I'm not saying she doesn't have any but she's far from the best.
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>>119988050
Saber is pretty a dragon in human form thanks to Merlin.
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This is the soul reason why EMIYA become an Archer class servant.
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>>119986992
What fighting games do you play and who are your mains?
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>>119988227
Hrunting would like to have a word with you
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Shirou has an extremely strong base for combat.

First of all, his eyesight is incredible. Go rewatch the scenes in the prologue episode and episode 1 where Rin and Shirou stare at either other when she's on top of the building. The fact that when Shirou is looking at her, he can see her clearly, while she can barely see him isn't accidental, it's actually the first hint that he is the Red Man.
Secondly, he spent most of his childhood sparring with Taiga, who is a fifth-dan Kendo champion.
Third, he's extremely /fit/.

It's not surprising at all he could develop to Archers level.
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>>119986762
>Grows up
And there is your answer if you are lost. He grew up. People change when they grow up and see the world for themselves. Shirou saw a lot of crazy shit after the holy grail war. Which is why he is a lot different than his younger self when he finally became a Heoric Spirit. Not to mention that when he is younger he was just thrown into the Holy Grail War without enough knowledge and training.
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>>119986762

Did you actually pay attention to him fighting? He uses his magic in the most strategic way he can, but the issue is that his only magic is strengthening, which can only be used in a pretty basic offensive way. Archer's fighting style only works because he has a repertoire of nearly infinite weapons to use. Once Shirou actually gets to fight someone with magic that isn't Gil (Sparks Liner High) you can see his actions have a lot of depth and thought behind them.
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>>119988069
nippon steel is best steel
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>>119988589
Archer would be such a pain in the ass for a Saber class servant to fight 1v1. Imagine trying to parry or block blows from someone who can dematerialize and rematerialize their weapons nearly instantly at will.
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>>119988241
Ah a fellow fighter. I've played a few and own a couple more.

I only fell in love with sf4 though. I main boxer. Sure he can rush down and has great frame traps and tick throws but I think he is better on defense. There are some bad matches where he has to play more aggressive to establish a life lead though.

Some times I like to practice combos with Filia and Parasol in SG, and soul fist loops with moridoom/amy but I don't really play those games. And I use Charlie/Ryu/juggernaut when I play against friends in marvel 2 but that is pretty rare. And I like Talim in sc3
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>>119987559

Saber beat his ass hard until he pulled out a technique that is only effective in surprise. That's not "out-skilling" her, that's just asspulling.
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>>119988682
He doesn't really "dematerialize and rematerialize" his weapons during a fight as a strategy (like avoiding a parry by making the weapon disapper for a split second), he just pulls out shit from the RM if his weapons get broken/gets disarmed. He's pretty much your regular swordsman with the exception that he will always have a weapon in hand.
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>>119988682

It's not as useful as you'd think. If you dematerialize your weapon to make a swing past an opponent's weapon, you'd just be opening yourself up for an attack from them, and they'd have the initiative because you still have to re-Trace your sword before you can even wound them, whereas their weapon is already there and moving towards you. A Servant would easily punish such a rookie move, which is probably why Archer never even bothers trying it.
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>>119988854
I'm pretty sure it's said that attack is effective even with out the element of surprise.

Even if you know it's coming, it's still very difficult if not almost impossible to block the entire thing.
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>>119988981
Archer dual wields though, the entire point of that is you're using one weapon to defend without having to carry around a shield.
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>>119988854
So Kuzuki is just an asspull? He doesn't have any skill? Take off the Sabergoggles before you opine.
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>>119988989
>Shirou throws the first pair of swords at you
>You smack them to the ground
Completely countered.
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>>119986762
It's almost like Shirou doesn't have any real combat experience and Archer has a ton. Shit's crazy.
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>>119988227

Shirou is actually really good at archery. Like, the best his Archery club ever had. He only missed one shot ever, and it was because he missed it on purpose. Also Archer was really the only class left to be summoned into when Rin summons him, since Saber effectively had that slot reserved.
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>>119988981
Couldn't you use movement and de-materialization to throw your opponent off their balance? Like going for a sword clash then dodging to the side and causing them to follow throw thin air?
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>>119988989

No, it's explicitly stated to be an attack that is only effective with the element of surprise, because it's a series of surprise attacks used to open up an opponent's guard long enough to get in a single killing blow. It's reliant on the opponent not expecting the swords to come from four different angles at once, but if they know about it they can take measures to counter the move, or prevent it from being set up in the first place. It's not like Tsubame Gaeshi that is always effective because of Fake Assassin's skill that prevents his techniques from becoming less effective.
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>>119987948
>EMIYA as Caster

That would be really broken.
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>>119988312
>is eyesight

I assumed he was enhancing it. Even at that point in the story.
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>>119989156
Apocrypha with EMIYA as Caster of Black when?
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>>119989156
he probably could not use his bow really good, might have better MAG, but not as good in melee, so his main thing would have to be using weapons as projecticles like he did to kill Caster.

So basically he would be a lesser Gil, besides the Reality Marble
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>>119988312
>First of all, his eyesight is incredible.
That's because he used Strengthening on his eyes.
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>>119989246
>no bow

That only precludes long-range broken phantasms. That's it.
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>>119989112

How would that be any different than dodging to the side though? It might confuse them for a moment the first time it happens, but I don't think it would be a serious detriment in any other way.
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>>119989029

You can't make effective swings with a weapon while you're defending with another. This is all pointless anyways, because Archer never does anything like what you describe.

>>119989070

Yes, Kuzuki's fighting skills are reliant on surprise as well. That's a good example. Saber was caught off-guard in their first meeting, but if they fought again, Kuzuki wouldn't last more than a few seconds because she knows what to expect and there's no way he can match the skill of a Servant in a duel head-on.
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>>119989323
>How would that be any different than dodging to the side though?

Because you're forcing them to commit to it. If they don't you can simply land the strike normally.
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Where did archer get a reality marble
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Sparker Liner High is the only part where Shirou shows any battle tactics.
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>>119989397
from inside himself
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>>119989397
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Saber gets worf'd a lot. Poor Saber-chan!
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>>119989454
I WANT TO RAPE SABER!
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>>119989089
He can even use his bow in fate against Basakah lol.
It just shows that he had potential which is why I like Shirou as a character and makes Archer also more appealing.

Also, for clarification, Shirou was granted the use of a reality marble when his orgin and element were changed to sword because of Avalon right? That's why he's allowed to summon UBW if he's connected to a prana reactor right? Or is it just cause he could read the aria and understand them on a mental level while Archer had to go through years of training to learn the magic of his reality marble?

When the fuck are we going to get an F/SN Archer origin/ UBW sequel god damnnit.

I want to see Shirou become the Red Man.
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>>119989156

EMIYA as Caster would have no sword skills and even worse stats than he has as Archer barring MAG. And with his magecraft at C- rank, he'd have nothing to supplement his reality marble, which means he's shit even as far as Casters go.

>>119989313

Broken Phantasms are Archer's trump card. Losing that would be devastating to his abilities.
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>>119989487
I WANT TO CUDDLE BOY SBAER!
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>>119989529
>BOY SBAER!
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>>119989529
I wonder how Lancelot kept it in his pants around the cute little blond-haired waifu king.
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>>119989513
>Shirou was granted the use of a reality marble when his orgin and element were changed to sword because of Avalon right?
No, not really. That's where "unlimited blade works" comes from, though.

His body is already a magic circuit specialized in overwriting the world. That's why he can use a RM, do tracing, and do strengthening in the first place, and why he's so shit at other magic.

Having an inner world of nothing but swords just made it really easy to make a RM.
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>>119989391
Kinda this. Since they don't know if you're going to dematerialize or not you can quickly feint it. Retracting a hand with a sword and without a sword is probably a high difference in speed. Couple that with having another sword to followup with any attack whilst moving and re-tracing a new weapon to continue your assault. It seems like it could be an effective way of fighting someone with one weapon. Or atleast not use to having to fight against the feints of a boxer.
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>>119989454
OFFICIAL F/SN WORF LIST:

Berserker
Saber

GAP

Gilgamesh
Lancer
Archer
Fake Assassin
True Assassin
Caster
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>>119989603
So he was just born with the magic circuit capable of making a RM?
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>>119989521
>EMIYA as Caster would have no sword skills

Why not?
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>>119986762
Well, Shirou always cursed his lack of power in Fate/stay night.
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>>119988227

Actually, EMIYA is an Archer class servant because everything he does, from his magecraft to his swordfighting, is based on Japanese archery. There are eight steps to performing a single shot with a bow in Japanese archery, which he outlines in the VN. There are also eight steps to tracing a sword in UBW, and eight lines to the verse to manifest UBW properly. You could say that everything Archer does is just taking the tenets of Japanese archery and applying them to magecraft.
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>>119989669
He would have skills but not really the stats to go for it is what I think anon meant.
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>>119989658

More or less. He also kinda abused his circuits into nothing but what they are, or so Rin says at some point, iirc. Having Avalon up your ass for almost two decades helped.
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>>119989253
>Shirou is the Crysis Man.
Now if only Shirou had Kerry's arsenal.
Blocks of cocaine man.
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>>119989669

A servants stats are determined by there class. If he got summoned as an archer, he'd probably have the same "skills", but his body would be slower and not as strong.
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>>119989750
>Crysis
It's 2015, Anon.
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