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Gary Stu

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Thread replies: 428
Thread images: 57

Who's the worst Gary Stu in anime and manga?
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Fuck that negro. Let's have Yahello thread instead.

Haruno is love! Haruno is life!
Haruno ending when?
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>>119378171
just finished rewatching it, then realized it was self insert bullshit and i have shit taste
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>>119378171
>8man
>Gary Stu

The point of the entire character is that its FLAWED
8man is a lazy cynical bum that would rather let his ass be wiped by his sister into all eternity than better himself

his philosophical ramblings resonate with the viewer, but they are also inherentely flawed

thats the point
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>>119379838
>not realizing it's the autist pushing his autistic opinion on everyone as to why Hachiman is a Garu Stu
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>>119379951
i wouldn't go as far to say 8mans a gary stu, but some of the solutions to plot problems were just wimpy.

tennis ball windpowers, please.
depressed girl locater powers, eh.
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>>119378171
and why is it Shiba Tatsuya?
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ITS THE GUY THAT GOES IN CIRCLE SAYING 8MAN IS A GARY STU
HE WILL NOT BACK ANY OF HIS CLAIMS WITH FACTS
HE WILL INSULT YOU ON A PERSONAL LEVEL IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH HIM
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>>119379838
>The point of the entire character is that its FLAWED
And James Bond only sleeps with married women and sluts because he can't commit, which definitely constitutes a flaw. He's still a Gary Stu.
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>>119380021
Did you read the LN?
if no, fuck off
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>>119378171
Not the character you posted, that's for sure.
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>>119380071
Stop using capslock. This is a civilized image board.
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>>119380133
ITS BROKEN, NOTHING I CAN DO.
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>>119380021
And people wonder why animeonly fags are cancerous.
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>>119380132
He's pretty Gary Stu. If by normal standards, he has a superhuman ability to not care about social interaction and the approval of others. From the point of view of a shut-in who watches anime all day, he's a hero.
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>>119378171
He's to autistic.
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>>119380363
>he has a superhuman ability to not care about social interaction and the approval of others.
That isn't superhuman at all.
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>>119380415
How the fuck do I get this power so I can use it in everyday life.
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>>119380363
In order to be a gary stu, he has to be a gary stu for everybody, not a select group. I already told you yesterday he is not, you're thinking of an underdog.
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We had this EXACT same "discussion" in another thread yesterday. If you think hachiman is a gary stu you are literally fucking retarded and probably some filipino who watches bad anime all day and thought he was "deep"
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I guess I have an idea of how shit the season 2 Yahari threads will be if this autist participates.
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Mary Stu/Gary Stu is just a fanfic characters that steals the spotlight from the actual main character of whatever work the fanfic is based on.
That is the original and only meaning of the term.
Using the term for anything else is "Tumblr landwhale complaining about character she doesn't like" Tier.

You are just whining about romanticized takes on a loner (Hachiman), gamer (Kirito), NEET (Sora) and so on.
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>>119380363
It's just like how Dr. Doom is a Gary Stu for world dictators.
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>>119380496
I have to admit that it's hard for me not to care about those things. I think it's just really busying yourself with so much shit that you don't give half a fuck about anything.
Hachiman probably WANTS to be accepted in some way, but believes he will never be able to.
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>>119380558
>bad Filipino who watches bad anime
10/10 giggled a bit
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>>119380515
>In order to be a gary stu, he has to be a gary stu for everybody
Who is a Gary Stu for everybody?

You could write some super religious character that always acts godly, and people would call him a Gary Stu, but only religious people would see him that way. Similarly, you could write a manslut that always sleeps around as a Gary Stu, but people who are against sleeping around wouldn't see him that way.

Sherlock Holmes is a Gary Stu, but he never shows interest in women. There are people who find that pathetic.
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>>119380662
But by who I feel like he has certain people he wants to accepted by.
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>>119380113
>>119380267
there was barely any difference in the light novel for the tennis ball part from the show
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>>119380860
Why would he show interest in women when he has Watson?
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>>119378171

8man? I didn't watch this show either but the truth is that Jesus Yamato, Tatsuya, and Kirito are ultimate Gary Stues of the worst kind.
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>>119380860
>not showing interest in women
As much as I want to agree with that statement didn't he actually like someone.
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>>119378171
i r8 this b8 2/8, not that gr8
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>>119381007
Kirito is fucking garbage.
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>>119380085
James Bond got married, you sack of cum. In any case, nobody other than Ian Fleming thinks he's a realistic/flawed character
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>>119380170
hold shift you complete cuntard
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>>119380363
Then I'm a Gary Stu as well, since I couldn't give a shit what others think. You get bigger problems in life as you grow up, and you'll stop thinking of shit like how many people disapprove of you; they can just join the line-up of all the others that feel the same.
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>>119381269

Thank you.
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>>119380594
well let's be clear, Sora and Kirito actually are Gary Stus.
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>>119381368
If you have friends or are married, that's normal. But it's not realistic for a person completely alone not to be lonely.
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Funposting round two?
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>>119381452
Why is this so true.
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>>119381369
Anything to take shit down. No problem
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>>119378171
Are you that autistic motherfucker who shitted up last nights thread?

You must be, holy shit please kill yourself.
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>>119381076
In the novels, he never did. But Arthur Conan Doyle didn't really give two fucks. He only continued the novel series because fans wouldn't let it go. So when they made a TV adaptation of Sherlock Holmes, Doyle was like, "Kill him off, marry him off, I don't care what you do with him". Since then, he's been paired with Irene Adler in some adaptations, but he was still asexual in the source material.
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>>119381452
I'm completely alone, yet not lonely because I have /a/
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>/a/
>where mary sue/gary stu has lost all meaning
Might as well just come out and say it, all it means to half the fuckers here is "something I don't like".
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>>119381641
I love you to anon and your autism as well no homo.
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>>119381697
I know. It's insane that /a/ could see some virgin like Tatsuya as a Gary Stu.
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>>119380594

Sora's not a Gary. He's just afraid of loneliness and the outside world, sexually repressed, and lucky that he didn't have to fight for real.

A Gary Stu would've actually DID something and had sex. Shiki Touno can be considered a Gary Stu; but hes' physically weak and "his show does not exist."
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>>119381855
Tatsuya is actually a good example of a Gary Stu as the word originally intended. All powerful, nearly everyone he meets loves him, those who don't are proven childish/wrong, even the rare who stay that way respect him, can accomplish feats beyond what is thought possible. He has the whole recipe.

It's not really lack of flaws that make a mary sue/gary stu (though it does contribute) it's lack of meaningful flaws and presence as a character Tatsuya did have some flaws, mostly his inability to feel, not that it even impacted him negatively for more than a few moments. Every main character should be special in some way, why else would the story revolve around them, but the idea of Mary Sue was invented for characters who take all tension from a plot with their ability to solve any situation with the flick of a wrist.

Still like onii-sama, fucker had his moments
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Can someone please tell what a gray stu is. I want to know.
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>>119381697

>>Insulting someone that you'll never be.

Hey. After a while, I stopped blaming myself for not being able to get a real job in real life. It doesn't mean that I should give up, though.
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>>119382125
The male version of a Mary Sue, which originated from a self-insert fanfic from Star Trek. Oh god, that fanfic was fucking horrible, yet so amusing at the same time.
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>>119378171
Is that the guy from oriemo
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>>119381007
It's funny, when I hear the name Yamato, this is the first character that comes to mind for me. And he was a near perfect character, but he was intentionally written that way.
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>>119382125
A male character you don't like. You don't need to know any more to contribute to a discussion like this.
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>>119381586
I heard he was like Caligula and in love with a horse. Maybe even a pony
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Hachiman is just a shit character.
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>>119382125
Originally, a Gary Stu or Mary Sue was an original character fanfiction authors would shove into their fanfiction, who was the best at everything and would have all the characters love them.

Overtime, the meaning has been watered down to something like, "A self-insert that's perfect in every way possible, who everyone wants to be".
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>>119378973
haruno best nee-san
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>>119382169
>>119382197
Thank you both Ill stay away from this cancer thread.
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>>119381977
He's damn close. EVERY single time he was essentially "in danger" of a loss he turns around at the last second and then he explains it was all according to plan, all along, the entire time.
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>>119381697
Same with poor writing, shit plot, bad execution etc. Nigga you really expect me to think you even know what good writing is when the most intellectually stimulating thing these people have experienced is fucking evangelion?

It's all literal buzzwords
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>/a/ hates 8man all of a sudden
why?
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>>119381317
Not realistically flawed, but let's be fair here, he's well-rounded and despite what some of the movies play him up as, not Ass-pull Godmode tier like some LN protagonist. The books go out of their way to paint him as someone who's competent but never the best at anything. There are characters, villains especially, that surpass him in one way or the other, shooting, driving, brawling.

Hell, don't forget he pretty much only survives Casino Royale through outside intervention(Soviet agent interrupting his torture and killing Le Chiffre, Vesper committing suicide to keep assassins off him), among other entries.

He's not quite a John le Carré character, but what he does is emotionally and psychologically damaging to him and others. He's a borderline rapist sometimes and it's presented matter-of-factly. Sure, he gets laid a lot but it's not like a fucking harem show, he's at least forging some kind of connection which every woman he meets and gets heartbroken quite a few times.

Does he echo Fleming's viewpoints? Sure, and they're a product of his time, or /pol/ at his worst, but outside of monologues he's never particularly sanctimonious outside of the virtues of coffee.

He's the protagonist, yes, but not a gravity well on the narrative the same way /a/'s usual suspects are.
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>8man
>Gary Stu

6/10 troll OP.

The only reason this shit gets replies is because gary stu is such a fucking buzzword on /a/, used all the time yet has no set meaning.

Keep being a shithole /a/
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Doesn't matter what term it is.

Characters that just happen to be talented at many fields are terribly boring.
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>>119382453
>Because muh morals
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>>119382169
>Oh god, that fanfic was fucking horrible, yet so amusing at the same time.

It was made as a parody of all the Mary Sues that were being made unironically. Of course it was going to be terrible and amusing.

>>119382259
>watered down

Not really, it's just that we never had a term for original characters in original works that fit the criteria, and the term works just fine even when out of fanfiction.
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>>119382172
Yes, season three. With Ponkon8 as the character designer.

Read the thread, you fucking retard.
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>>119381421
Kirito is far from a Gary Stu. He gets his ass kicked pretty often.
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>>119382453
He's a good character.
But I think many people hate the fact that autists here believe that he's in the right.

He's well written, but he's supposed to be pathetic.

Can you imagine how annoying a guy like that would be in your high school? Always so smug, yet failing to do anything extraordinary. Looking down on people that have a social life.

He has no ambitions or purpose whatsoever.

He does develop into a less pathetic person later on, though.
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>>119382492
Depends on the setting. Achilles, for example, would have been a major Gary Stu if only his mother had fucking dropped him inside the river. He would have been immune to everything.
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toufag from index
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>>119382650
Before Alicization he was a Gary Stu
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>>119382491
He is a Gary Stu though. He's a loser who doesn't give a fuck and never puts himself out there to be laughed at, unless he's helping someone out and purposely making himself look bad. He doesn't say awkward things or act like a sperglord, the way real people like him do. He's everything that hikkis wish they were.
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>>119382685
>hating touMAN
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>>119382723
I'd say he was borderline Gary Stu in Aincrad. After that, nope. He's anything but a Gary Stu once Alicization rolls around.
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>>119382653
And yet I think to myself why do feel what he's doing is right. He has no sense of social justice whatsoever why can't I be like him. Things would seem interesting through the eyes of him is he really a hero or a queer and, why does he want to do with himself.
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>>119382453
It's just one faggot was shitting up a thread yesterday and decided to continue here.
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>>119379838
>character is that its FLAWED
And yet he's portrayed as some kind of heroic martyr who we're supposed to sympathize with to ridiculous lengths and maybe even idolize to some extent. It's pretty fucked up.
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>>119382748
You apparently missed the memo that he laughs like a creep in class or to himself.
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>>119382748
Either stop trolling or fuck off. That's clear as day not the definition of a gary stu and I shouldn't even have to explain why, unless you really are retarded.

And for anyone else in this thread too retarded to understand why, read this shit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

>inb4 "8man is wish fullfillment, therefor he's gary stu!"
If your wish is to be a loner hated by most and can't have a successful relationship with the only two hot girls who'll acknowledge him, then you're an autistic sperglord
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>>119378171
this edgey faggot who just refuses to die, damnit!
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>>119382453


All of the "Man I was JUST like Hachiman in high school!" blogshit when it was airing made me hate him.
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>>119382453
Ask yourself why /a/ even liked him in the first place. He's a completely generic character. The only explanation is that /a/ wishes they were like him.
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>All this edgy hate for 8man

kek
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>>119382895
>heroic martyr
>secondary at full power

>supposed to sympathize
Who told you that? If you don't sympathize with him, you don't, the author doesn't forced that on you. Or are you saying that the fanbase is forcing you to?
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>>119379838
8man is only flawed in a self-sacrificial way. While he does look down on others, he doesn't hesitate to help them if they call out to him. In the end, he does nothing but good things for others.

While I don't necessarily agree that he's a gary stu, I do find issue with the later volumes where Yahari has basically turned into a harem with some of the most stand out girls in school falling for him. It's quite absurd.
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>>119383047
>then you're an autistic sperglord
That describes most of /a/ and otaku culture in general. These are people who have made a culture around rejecting real women and real socialization in favor waifus and online socializing.

That said, Hachiman has qualities that most people in general would aspire to, namely his ability to not give a fuck and not get himself into awkward situations by chasing after the approval of others.
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>>119382895
Funny since in an interview, Watari explicitly states that Hachiman isn't someone to be admired. The anime's a total fuckup in glorifying that portion of him which is why animeonly fags don't really have an opinion.

>>119383172
You mean Yukino, Yui, and arguably Iroha? There's no one else.
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In essence, language accounts for a mere 30% of human communication. The other 70% is made up of information collected from eye movements and other body language. With that, even a loner who never takes part in conversation can pull off 70% of what we consider communication. This a quote from 8man and he clearly is a fucking gary stu.
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>>119382653
this anon knows what's up
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>>119382472
It really depends on which Bond we're talking about. Ever since Brosnan, Bond has been shown as badass and swag, but deeply flawed with some serious issues. In contrast, back in the Connery days for example, Bond was a one dimensional Stu who fucked up everyone and was in the moral highground every time.

>>119383263
I'd argue that at least two others have a crush on him, if not outright like him. Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that 8man's 'flaws' are really downplayed or nonexistent in recent volumes in favour of the developing love triangle/pentagon.
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>>119383281
He's the hero that autistic sperglords deserve, but not the one they need right now.
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>>119383263
Forgot SakiSaki, aswell. Just like 8man.
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>>119383263
>You mean Yukino, Yui, and arguably Iroha? There's no one else.

Yeah but I bet the guy you responded to, and many others, truly believe that the trap, bartender girl, and sensei also love him and are somehow actual love candidates.
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>>119383384

8man wants to fuck that boypussy though
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>>119383362
That pic is kek
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>>119383384
Not him, but I'm pretty sure it's too early to dismiss the implications of Sensei's feelings.
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>>119383425
don't we all?
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>>119383353
>downplayed
More likes he's slowly improving himself, and all the development lately doesn't really leave room for 8man issues
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>>119383353
>In contrast, back in the Connery days for example, Bond was a one dimensional Stu who fucked up everyone and was in the moral highground every time.
That's just old school filmmaking.

Bond being really good at his job doesn't make him a Gary Stu. He fucks up plenty of times and survives most movies because of at least one stroke of dumb luck.
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>>119383444
Yeah but let's be real, 8man and sensei ending up in any sort of romantic relationship would be either a complete asspull or would require some twisted reasoning as to why that makes sense for them.
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>>119383353
How are they downplayed? There's a reason why the conflict happened in volumes 7-9. It took two whole volumes to clear that up.

The only actual love candidates are Yukino and Yui. Shipperfags and waifufags need not apply.

Unlike other harems, there's actual character development going on. I don't see the problem.
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>>119383425
I'm not so sure he's after futa cock considering he can't get any for being, an edge lord all the time. but its questionable that's for sure.
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>>119383552

When he picks Iroha i look forward to your mad
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>>119383516
>Bond being really good at his job doesn't make him a Gary Stu.
No, but Bond getting the job done and getting the girl every time with swagger and no sort of meaningful conflict to his character beyond risk of his life is Gary Stu.

People shit on Craig's Bond all the time, but let's be real - he's probably the most nuanced Bond yet and not just a walking stereotype.

>>119383523
There's 2 more volumes, no? Plenty of time to wrap up loose plot threads are build up romance with X character. Hell, progress wasn't made with Yukino until literally this volume.
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>>119383523
No there's a way to prove her feelings for him.
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>>119383588
>being this delusional
Yeah, right.
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>>119383647

>implying its not more delusional to think he'll pick Yukino or Yui
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>>119378171
You want to self-insert yourself as a loser with no friends, who has just started having women take notice of him, and he has the balls to mouth off to anyone.
Dream a little bigger anon
See>>119380067
>>
>not giving a fuck what anyone else thinks of you is a Gary Stu

Literally kill yourselves if that's your main argument.
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>>119383588
Somebody other than Yukino might have had a chance before volume 10, but now you'd have to be as dense as the average harem MC not to see where this is going.
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>>119383281
how?

A gary stu would resolve the whole thing without saying a word. just being himself, loved by everyone and with no repecursions in the end..
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>>119383703
>implying he will end up with someone at all for that matter
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>>119380067
some one needs to post the jesus ED
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>>119383281
>8man bullshitting around
>he took that seriously
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>>119383707
There are people who don't give a fuck what others think about them, but none of them are lonely virgins.

Hachiman is a Gary Stu because he's an outcast like the audience is, but unlike them, he doesn't worry about what other people think and doesn't make a fool of himself. Meanwhile, he lives in a world where it's the popular, attractive people who are always saying dumb things, while he just sighs and shakes his head.
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>>119383703
The problem is you think a girl who has two volumes of focus is going to win over Yukino or Yui who had been present since volume 1.

It's more probable that he'll end with either of the two or friendship end than with a girl who was introduced near the end of the story. Who's delusional now?
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>>119382051
Animeoyfag or LN reader?
In the anime, I admit that he does appear Stuish.

However, in the light novel he is characterized as a emotionally and socially crippled teenager whose only goal is to make his sister happy.
He cares for nothing else and a lot of other characters who have some idea of the extent of his abilities either fear him, hate him or love him.
He is overpowered and that is irritating at times however it makes sense since he was created that way through genetics and upbringing.

I find it hard to consider him a perfect character who everyone loves and nothing can go wrong for in light of those circumstances.
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>>119383822

Just you wait
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>>119383807
I'm exactly one of them. And I choose to live that way. So you're wrong.
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>>119383625
>Hell, progress wasn't made with Yukino until literally this volume
Maybe as a romantic relationship, but his development with Yukino as a friend has been developed since volume 1. Remember the cultural festival?
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>>119383707
>>
>>119383909
Don't get me wrong. If she had been a main character from the beginning, I'd be okay with her end, but she's not the focus of the story. Hachiman and Yukino are.

Considering that Yukino still has her final arc to go, it's a no brainer at this point.
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>>119383911
I don't know you personally, but I don't you're as detached as Hachiman, and you probably make a fool of yourself much more often.
>>
What would make an MC in haremshit a Mary Sue?
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>>119382653
He has a pretty pathetic personality at start but what he did later on was extraordinary though. Maybe not that high but the works he has done in Service club were certainly more than what your average high school student would have done, in both their own life or in 8man position
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The girl with "Y" in her name is going to end up with the guy with an "H" in their name. The question is who's who.
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>>119383975

>Not the main focal point
>Gets more time in the novels than Yui does at this point
>>
>>119383994
The point is that there is nothing unbelievable in not caring about what others think of you. There is no reason whatsoever unless you're a little bitch who needs to be loved by everyone.
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>>119383994
>doesn't know that anon enough to make a judgment
>apparently knows enough about Hachiman to generalize his character into a Gary Stu from a butchered adaption
Is this autist for real?
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>>119383961
Is manwhore supposed to be an insult?
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>>119383281
It doesn't mean that's true. He believes his own bullshit about not having to talk to people when in reality he's actually just too much of an autist to communicate like a normal person.
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>>119383961
Ken reached his goal of creating a harem and even got a new cast on board with it in the sequel LN. He's also just an entertaining likable guy with his own issues each of the girls he knew first helped him get through.

The harem king himself easily crushes that chart.
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>>119384056
It's pretty unrealistic unless you're a successful normalfag. Losers can't be as cool as Hachiman.
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>>119384112
Yes. What mainstream hero can you think of that's a manwhore? People with values don't like sluts.
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>taking 8man's bullshit at face value
Can't wait for S2. There will be a lot of self-insert fags that will be crying that '8man has turned into a normalfag'.
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>>119384237
Other anons already mentioned him. James Bond.
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>>119384237
>men can be sluts

That's rich. Actually, it's too stupid to even be remotely funny.
>>
>>119384237
theres fernando
>>
>>119384022
>implying Yui isn't going to be a large presence in the Yukino arc
Nigga pls

Well actually, I'm not too sure either.
>>
>>119384237
is there a difference between a manwhore and a womanizer?
>>
>>119383994

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diogenes_of_Sinope
>>
>>119384382
Manwhore sounds like a moralfaggot term, so I dismiss it.
>>
>>119384382
A manwhore is like a college kid who just goes and sleeps with drunk college chicks at parties.

A womanizer is someone who is actually able to seduce women, often by suggesting to them that the relationship will be more than physical.

Both are sluts.
>>
>>119384382
They both mean the same damn thing, it's just a matter of connotation.

Man sleeps with a lot of girls + I DO like him = womanizer

Mans sleeps with a lof of girls + I DON'T like him = manwhore
>>
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Hachiman is a real loser here's why and my points are, more blunt and real than anyone else alright.
>8man is so slef centered
>he is a dick to people even if he knows them
>he's an immoral twit who likes his sister a bit to much I say
>so fucking deep with his philosophical views on things and their his views are negitive hlaf the time
>is a terribale fucking flirt with girls
>lazy bum
>talks to himself way to much
>likes boys with small penisis who look like girls
>used to be an otaku
>nobody likes him even if he doesn't say anything
>to cocky at times
>try's at times to play bad guy and good guy
>virgin
What else needs to be said I respect him but he try's so hard not to fit in for what purpose. He's clearly a gary stu folks prove me wrong. And someone stop 8man he's just making himself look like a fool.
>>
>>119384440
>>119384413
A womanizer is someone who takes advantage of women. A manwhore is just someone who sleeps around.

All womanizers are manwhores, but not all manwhores are womanizers.
>>
>>119384493
Then what is a boy who actually works to get his harem to love him rather than bother with retarded "who's gonna win" shit?
>>
>>119384539
Ken sugisaki
>>
>>119384493

So sleeping around with a bunch of women isn't taking advantage of women?

Sounds like the patriarchy's rape culture has you good, you white cis scum
>>
Has Hachiman managed to make a single "friend" yet?

I stopped reading a while back to wait for the translations to progress.
>>
>>119384457
>>8man is so slef centered
Most Gary Stus are.

>>he is a dick to people even if he knows them
Most Gary Stus are. Think Mr. Darcy.

>>he's an immoral twit who likes his sister a bit to much I say
Otaku love wincest.

>>so fucking deep with his philosophical views on things and their his views are negitive hlaf the time
He sounds like an autist to normal people, but losers think he's an intellectual.

>>is a terribale fucking flirt with girls
He's not that terrible. He doesn't come off as a creeper. Girls still like him.

>>lazy bum
Positive trait to hikkis.

>>talks to himself way to much
Positive trait to hikkis.

>>used to be an otaku
Positive trait to target audience.

>>nobody likes him even if he doesn't say anything
Right, he's the outsider. He doesn't need their normalfag approval.

>>to cocky at times
That's a very positive trait for most people in general.

>>try's at times to play bad guy and good guy
Lots of Gary Stus are like this. Think James Bond.

>>virgin
Right, but he doesn't care that he's a virgin. That's why they love him.
>>
>>119384590
>So sleeping around with a bunch of women isn't taking advantage of women?
Not if they're just looking for a quick fling, too. The concept of a womanizer comes from the idea that men just want sex, but women want commitment. That isn't true all the time.
>>
>>119384599
I like your answers great points.
>>
>>119380363
If you notice, the guy does care. However he justifies his loneliness as just something that is, something that can't be changed. He takes "pride" in it because he's grown to see no other way he can live his high school life. It's hopelessness and delusion at the fact that he can't change his situation, so he tries to take "pride" in it so it doesn't hurt.
>>
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>>119384599
Why is this guy trying so hard?
>>
>>119384590
No? Because they can just be looking to get pounded. It's beneficial for both if them.
>>
>>119384585
Someone tried to tell me once that /a/ would one day be so shit, retards would try to argue that anyone who ever achieves harem end is a Gary Stu. Bullshit.
>>
>>119384833
m8 you prob weren't in the 400+ reply thread earlier where this guy was spouting the same nonsense.

This guy is literally autism incarnate, he's trying to project his loser qualitites on all of /a/ so hard to back his argument.
>>
>>119384638
>>119384864
>thinking my post was serious

I even used the P word.
>>
>>119382653
He's a pathetic guy, but at the same time he's a good guy. Like he comes through for people despite complaining all the way, like Zaimokuza. He looks down on people not because he truly believes his way of life is great, but rather to grant himself the delusion that his life is fine, that it's fine to be alone and isolated. All of his smugness and general being an asshole is pretty much coping with his belief that things can't change for the better, that it's fine for everything to stay the way they are.
>>
>>119384901
No, I was. As a LN reader, his arguments don't make any sense.

It's kind of funny though, hope he keeps going.
>>
>>119384905
I thought cisshit would be enough to give away the joke seeing as they didn't even tell you to fuck off back to tumblr.
>>
>>119384803
Yeah, but there's a big difference between having a secret desire deep down inside you that doesn't affect how you act, and having a desperate longing that colors everything you do.

If no one bothered Hachiman, he'd keep to himself. He may actually want to be normal somewhere deep inside him, but it's a small thing he keeps under wraps.

Compare that to most social anxious weirdos, who can't stop thinking about other people, even though they wish they could.
>>
>>119384901
>400+ reply thread
Anon, that thread got to 600+ replies.
>>
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>>119384899
>Trusting on /a/

Why would you do that?
>>
>>119384994
That's the thing, he does constantly think about other people, deriding their lifestyle as meaningless and fleeting. It's pure jealousy at the fact they can live fulfilling school lives, the fact they can have the wonderful school life while he's stuck being alone and a loser. It colors his essays, his view on life, self justification to keep up the pretense of happiness.
>>
>>119380067
he is the best though
just the best
>>
Is Casshern from Casshern Sins a gary stu?
>>
>>119382453
>omg hachiman is so cool, everything he says is true XD
He is arguably an entertaining character but he's not worth all the cancer he brought into this world.
>>
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Kenshi is a ridiculous Gary Stu if you don't know any more context than the anime you see him in.
>>
>>119385138
are you saying anyone who derides others lifestyles as meaningless and fleeting is inherently jealous?
>>
Type Moon MCs are Mary Sues. Ordinary high school students is actually super special unique snowflakes that can beat up legendary/mythical creatures without real training? Sues
>>
>>119385281
Considering how 8man obsesses over it, I would say so.
>>
>>119383807
You have been saying this same fucking garbage since yesterday. Stop.

Not giving a fuck does not make a character a gary stu, and it doesn't even APPLY to hachiman because he DOES give a fuck but is too much of a fucking basket case and will always rationalize away that he doesn't care.
>>
>>119383704
>You want to self-insert yourself as a loser with no friends, who has just started having women take notice of him, and he has the balls to mouth off to anyone.
No, but i'm sure most of /a/ does
>>
>>119383704
>See>>119380067
no
he's shit
>>
>>119381421
Why? if everybody here says having severe social flaws disqualifies you from being a Gary Stu, then Sora is even more flawed than 8man in that concept.
>But he always wins
So, Oliver Atom is a Gary Stu? It's not his victory alone, most of the time Shiro is the one who does most of the work.
>>
8man is a hero.
>>
>>119385875
key word here is "severe"
>>
>>119382472
tinker tialor soldier spy sequel when
>>
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>>119385875
Wut
>>
>>119385875
I would say that Sora is more perfect in the sense that none of his actions have ever had negative consequences, while a lot of 8man's do.
>>
moot, please make a banner of 8man being a Gary Stu.
>>
>>119383902
>However, in the light novel he is characterized as a emotionally and socially crippled teenager whose only goal is to make his sister happy.
Uh, no.
He is characterized as a robot whose only goal is to make his sister happy.

>He cares for nothing else and a lot of other characters who have some idea of the extent of his abilities either fear him, hate him or love him.
Everyone is always in awe over how awesome he is or love him. Anyone who DOESN'T is usually either a bad guy, or is proven wrong and they begin to love him soon anyways.

>I find it hard to consider him a perfect character who everyone loves and nothing can go wrong for in light of those circumstances.
He's a Stu. Anyone who's good or matters loves him and rarely does anything actually go wrong for him. Keep in mind that he doesn't give a fuck about his 'tragic' situation, so the viewer/reader wouldn't either.
>>
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>>119385985
pls no.

For better or worse, that'd inflate the faggot autis's ego so much.
>>
We're all Gary Stus here.
>>
>>119385228
>more context
Like what? him being the distant relative of the strongest being in the universe? or his sisters trained him to be a super capable guy? That doesn't change the fact that he is a Gary Stu though.

I still like him regardless
>>
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>>119381421
>Kirito
>Gary Stu
He's that autist that spends thousands of hours in his MMO and absolutely destroys everyone at it through a combination of dedication and skill. There's nothing stu about him.

>>119386044
Why do you even care that much about someone's opinion of your self-insert? Grow up, christ.
>>
>>119385138
It's not pure jealousy. It's maybe 20 proof jealousy at most.
>>
>>119385899
Yes, and? Sora's flaws are even more severe than 8man's. 8man doesn't need his sister to go with him everywhere or gets a nervous attack

>>119385969
In the LN there was already a case where Shiro pointed out his plan was wrong and Izuna's father ended as a captive as a consequence.
>>
>>119382453
the fuck nigga? i love 8man simply because of his character, simple as that, no morals and belief here.
>>
>>119385358
>Not giving a fuck does not make a character a gary stu
You've been saying this same fucking garbage since yesterday. Stop.

No one said not giving a fuck makes you a Gary Stu. Being an otakubait loser and not giving a fuck does make you a Gary Stu, however.
>>
>>119386153
Like being the son of one of the three artificial people or whatever they were called from that world and being trained form birth specifically for the purpose of being sent to the world to accomplish what his mother was supposed to do, not just to be a super capable guy.

He was just capable of doing what he did, he was made specifically to do it. His entire existence up to the end of Isekai is defined by it.
>>
>>119386305
>He was just capable
He wasn't just capable*
>>
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>>119385161
Ask and ye shall receive.
>>
>>119383625
>he's probably the most nuanced Bond yet and not just a walking stereotype.
It's also boring and generic run of the mill gritty action flick
>>
>>119386215
>implying I give a shit about the opinion of an autistic animeonly fag

Tripfags are annoying and the last thing we need is some autist getting more attention than he deserves by giving him a banner as suggested by the previous anon. No fun allowed.
>>
>>119386465
That transition to Jesus gets me every time; the only good thing to come out of this shit show.

>>119386466
Which one? QoS was all sorts of shit, but I wouldn't call it a generic action flick.
>>
>>119386044
But what written here and the last thread deserves to be in the history book.
A banner will remind us not to get tick off in Gary Stu thread.
>>
is Saitama a gary stu?
>>
Don't think anyone beats Onii-sama in terms of Gary Stu. Literally able to do whatever the plot demands him to do -- martial arts? speed shooting? wallhack? invent levitation? be a great brother? nuke things at a distance? yet still somehow have time to hang out with friends? well you got it, Onii-sama does it all.
>>
>>119386904
a meme gary stu.

worst fanbase ever.
>>
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>>119384597
Translations already caught up, last year actually
>>
>>119386904
He's the worst kind of Stu.

>>119386905
The sad thing is, you have people defending him because he's a robot.
>>
Season 2 Yahari bitching isn't going to be plesant
>>
>>119386904
No, the entire plot is that he is overpowered, no one's pretending otherwise. A Gary Stu has the author pretending that his power and abilities are justified.
>>
is inaho a gary stu if he died
>>
>>119386905
can he make spice and wolf season 3?
>>
>>119383807
Hachiman says dumb shit that makes people cringe a fair bit, you spastic.
>>
>>119387183
He's Jesus, not God.
>>
>>119387104
Hopefully the shitposters stay away from volume 11 threads.
>>
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>>119387236
>>
It's easy to tell a Gary Stu by how much his fanboys deny he's a Gary Stu.
>>
>>119387104
It's also going to be nothing like the first season, no Batman memes for you.
>>
>>119387140
How is that different from Mahouka, Hagure Yuusha or NGNL? All of them revolve precisely about their MC's being overpowered.
>>
>>119387345
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/bandwagon/
>>
>>119387354
I'm pretty sure people are going to bitch a lot about it becoming Haremshit cause of Iroha and how 8man changes.
>>
>>119387443
I know I did. I'm still reading the LNs, but I'm not digging this new love triangle shit. Feels really bland after reading WA2.
>>
>>119386041
Most of his family hates his guts or is scared of him. His cousins' father wants to lock him away in the basement. His aunt wants to control and constrain him. His military group view as a tool rather than a person. He can't give a shit about anything other than his sister. He is born and raised as a weapon and he will remain as one until his death. Also he is not the most powerful person in his world. He nearly got his ass kicked by an American the same age as him. He is not the smartest. A guy at another high school is. He is not the best at martial arts. His sensei is.

I can't view him as a stew in light of those facts.
>>
>>119387364
Because Saitama is a joke, he exists for comedy and not to be jerked off by the author.
>>
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>>119387328
>tfw Amagi even have a Mary Sue
>>
>>119381855
sasuga oni sama,

your greatness far surpasses mere cropping
>>
>>119387607
Most of his family are traditional pompous assholes. The military is the typical animu military.

>He can't give a shit about anything other than his sister.
Not a bad thing.

>He is born and raised as a weapon and he will remain as one until his death.
Also not a bad thing considering he the sheath for his sister.

>Also he is not the most powerful person in his world.
He's powerful enough and when he loses, he's holding back.

>I can't view him as a stew in light of those facts.
Then you'd be right at home reading fanfics written by 12 year old girls where the Sues aren't Sues because of superficial negatives.
>>
>Tfw I never once did care about this self insert bullshit

I find Hachiman to be an amusing character, that's it. Truth be told I love Yukinoshita more. The conversations between them I find enjoyable.
>>
>>119386041
Well Morisaki, Shippou, Ichijou and George don't particularly love him and still want to win against him even if they respect him. The one also wants to get in the imouto's panties so he can't outwardly show his distaste too much. Though if you can name the only people who dislike him versus the huge cast of characters who like him it's proving the stu point.
>>
>>119387177
He lives though so there you go.
>>
>>119387765
Self-insert fags are the worst thing about the series. People don't realize the story's about him growing out of his pretentious phase along with Yukino.
>>
Reading through the thread, according that anon description of Gary Stu, is Kurosawa also a Gary Stu?
>>
Pro tip:

A character that reminds you of yourself by virtue of what a sad sack of shit he is (i.e. 8man, Shinji) is not a self-insert.

A self-insert is a character that has functionally no personality, allowing you to project yourself onto them.
>>
>>119388047
>A self-insert is a character that has functionally no personality
>>
>>119388047
By word of god, Shinji was specifically made to depict the average otaku teenager. You can't get any more self insert than that.
>>
>>119387607
You also forgot that he's just average looking.

Lina conveniently loses because she starts getting wet for him and is too naive for a soldier. Masaki loses because he freaks out he kills him and stops in his tracks. George only discovered 1 cardinal code when Tatsuya's ES is hinted to be able to uncover all 13 easily. Maya was supposed to be stronger than Tatsuya but he beats her anyway. I find it hard to see the sympathy when Tatsuya's supposed flaws and BS abilities actually make him more efficient and badass. Everyone else looks stupid for having emotions and not being robots. If anything the story glorifies Tatsuya as a robot.
>>
>>119388201
Onii sama is too boring for me.
>>
>>119388249
>BS abilities
Every time. Sasuga Tsutomu for that unintended pun.
>>
>>119388215
You're a fucking idiot.

Shinji depicts the average otaku teenager in order to criticize the average otaku teenager. Not as an empty vessel for wish fulfillment fantasies.
>>
>>119388047
>A self-insert is a character that has functionally no personality, allowing you to project yourself onto them.
Utter bullshit.

A self-insert is a character who is written in a way that the audience can identify with him.

Hachiman is the perfect self-insert for the target audience. Why do you think derail threads about the show into blogfests? It's because so many people on /a/ identify with him. He's the perfect self-insert.
>>
>>119388252
Yet his fanboys defend him to no end. All characters that don't suck his dick are hated by the rabid fanbase. Mari, Sayaka and Kanon have been called sluts and used goods simply because they aren't Tatsuya's haremettes and have other boyfriends.
>>
>>119388348
It's great really. Sometimes I wonder if it really isn't intended to be a parody.
>>
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>>119388371
>A self-insert is a character who is written in a way that the audience can identify with him.
So you're saying that any character that the audience can empathize with is a self-insert?

Wow, thanks for enlightening me /a/. I had no idea that trying to illicit an emotional connection between the audience and the protagonist was bad writing and something to be avoided.

Jesus Christ, this board is filled with teenagers. Fucking kill yourself.
>>
>>119388482
>illicit
elicit*
>>
>This thread
How can people keep answering to this guy? It's hilarious.
>>
>>119388371
Self-insert fags are cancer. What else is new?

That shouldn't detract you from the character itself since he's actually worth following.
>>
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>>119388249
>Just average looking
>But tons of bitches want my dick

>Just of average intelligence
>But still a pioneer in magic and engineering technology

>Mediocre magician
>Except with a unique specialization that makes me terrifyingly deadly

>Just a tool, a weapon, a robot
>But that makes me into an efficient killing machine

>No emotions
>Except emotions conveniently related to my sister so I can protect her

>No sense of self
>But I don't give a shit

It makes me wonder when the author is going to flat out say, "HE'S NOT A GARY STU".
>>
>>119388370
You're a fucking idiot.

I never said he was a wish fulfillment fantasy. Not every self insert is a wish fulfillment fantasy. Those who are both things are Mary sue's. Shinji is the first one but not the other one.
>>
>>119388371

I agree, Hachiman is a perfect Gary Stu for otaku and other social outcasts. He is basically how they want to be perceived by environment and the so called 'flaws' (their main defense) of his are there to allow those sad individuals to identify with him easier.

In real life otaku losers are much more similar to Shinji but notice that they are unable to identify with him, because he has flaws they are unable to accept as theirs.

This whole thing is obviously self-defense mechanism.
>>
>>119388047
I consider a self-insert any character that the audience lives vicariously through to get something they want. So any harem MC is a self-insert.
>>
>>119388547
>No sense of self
>But I don't give a shit
This is perfect for cynical otaku and pathetic losers who fail at life.10/10 would self-insert into.
>>
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>>119388617
So in other words, you're spewing the same shit as >>119388371, and making the ridiculous claim that a protagonist whom the audience can identify with is somehow a bad thing.

Choke on your own dick and your shitty buzzwords and die, you pretentious little shit. You can't even grasp the basic fundamentals of storytelling.
>>
>>119388687
>I agree, Hachiman is a perfect Gary Stu for otaku and other social outcasts
God, why do we have these kind of special retarded people here?
Gary stu is someone perfect, charismatic, it has nothing to do to a character being relatable or sympathized with.

God fucking damn, too many retards here.
>>
>>119388215
Shinji is for everyone.
>>
>>119388807
It's just one autist who thinks Hachiman's a Gary Stu.
>>
>>119382453
They now realize how much a gary stu he is after his new anime design. A pity, but there is still Kyon and Araragi they can self-insert to.
>>
>>119388917
Nah, now that Yahari is "popular," it's the cool thing to troll now.
>>
>>119388687
The only real issue with Hachiman is that he has 'just enough' "flaws" to be relatable to your average /a/ user who was a loser in highschool, but enough positive traits that he's distinctly different from the typical /a/non. It's that thin line that allows the people watching Yahari to insert into Hachiman when he starts getting a harem, when he saves the day numerous times, when the most beautiful girl in school falls for him, when people realize he's highly intelligent for his age, and think

>Yeah, I was exactly like that in highschool. I could've gotten a harem and the most beautiful school if I wanted to, but I didn't because normalfags amirite?

Fucking disgusting at the irony.
>>
>>119389006
I don't think anyone would compare anime logic to real life, that would be pathetic.
>>
>>119388807
The retard here is you, anon. There are at least two definitions for Gary Stu, and neither requires him to be 'perfect'. In fact, most traditional mary sues do have flaws, it's just that those flaws are largely forgettable and have no bearing on the actual narrative or are somehow spun into positives.
>>
>>119388807
Maybe we should stop taking fanfic terms seriously.
>>
>>119388713
It's even more self-insert worthy when you realize Tatsuya seduces all the bitches with his abilities and CAD engineering. Engineers are cool in this story. He's also just average looking with scars that are supposed to be a huge turn off but they really make Honoka and Erika wet anyway when they first see him at the beach.
>>
>>119389045
It is pathetic, but if you were here during airing, you'd know that the threads essentially became blogger central of people going
>Yeah, I was my school's Hachiman!

It's died down recently and only the people truly interested in the LNs remain, but the 8man threads were legitimately terrible.
>>
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>gary stu is someone that acomplish something using drastic methods

Its gary stu the new favorite buzzword of 2015?
>>
>>119389069
>There are at least two definitions for Gary Stu
Except there isn't, Mary sue is the same as Gary stu, there is one term only, you dipshit.
>>119389095
Maybe the retard that makes these threads should be banned already.
>>
>>119389069
Tell us why anybody should take your bullshit made up definitions seriously.
>>
>>119389126
>It is pathetic, but if you were here during airing, you'd know that the threads essentially became blogger central of people going
I was, and I was when spyro was translating volume 6 too.
I am aware, but it wasn't always, and it wasn't as exaggerated as you are making it. But yeah, I kind of agree.
But not always, the LN only threads were great.
>>
>>119389069
>it's just that those flaws are largely forgettable and have no bearing on the actual narrative or are somehow spun into positives.
Except if you read the LNs, you'd realize his flaws does cause harm. Animeonly fags everyone.
>>
>>119378171
the first time i saw this character was in a gay porn doujin so that's always how i'll picture him
>>
>>119388807

Except that Hachiman is pretty much perfect, all his so-called flaws are superficial and don't really affect him in any negative way like they do e.g. Shinji or Hei (from Darker than Black). In fact they are not flaws at all for social outcasts.

Thus he is a Gary Stu, my hot-blooded friend.
>>
>b8man fagboys being this frustrated because their generic self-insert MC is a gary stu
>>
>>119388547
Just like how Miyuki isn't a Mary Sue but she's still the best even better looking than an actress, can induce love at first sight, adored when she's rude to everyone, and a school idol despite being a dictator SC President.
>>
>>119388806
>making the ridiculous claim that a protagonist whom the audience can identify with is somehow a bad thing.
Of course not, faggot, i'm not that same idiot. I'm just saying Shinji is a self insert. I'm not saying anywhere that is a bad thing or that self insert is the same as Gary Stu
>>
>>119389148
You shouldn't take stupid buzzwords seriously, period.

If someone can't articulate criticism outside dumb buzzwords, chances are they have no idea what they're talking about.
>>
>>119388371
> so many people on /a/ identify with 8man

no anon, it's just you

don't lump the rest of us with you, you fucking edgy prepubescent teen

get out
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I like this thread like truOta debates.
>>
>>119388482
>So you're saying that any character that the audience can empathize with is a self-insert?
No, a character who's deliberately designed with that in mind.

>Jesus Christ, this board is filled with teenagers. Fucking kill yourself.
Sounds like you're the teenager here, getting all booty-bothered over someone pointing out that your favourite cartoon idol is a self-insert.

>>119388806
>making the ridiculous claim that a protagonist whom the audience can identify with is somehow a bad thing
Please, tell me where I wrote that this is a bad thing. Or realise what a subhuman retard who are who can't even read.
>>
>>119389226
>all his so-called flaws are superficial and don't really affect him in any negative way like they do
Jesus christ, I hope the second season is adapted perfectly so you can eat your own words.
>>
>>119389226
>Except that Hachiman is pretty much perfect, all his so-called flaws are superficial and don't really affect him in any negative way like they do e.g. Shinji or Hei (from Darker than Black)
It's like you didn't read the LN or watched the anime at all, plain shitposting.
>>
>>119389143
>Except there isn't
What is classical and modern mary sue?

>>119389188
Care to elaborate?
>>
>>119389006
I don't think you realise that this is wish-fulfilment.

The show constructs a character who is just like the audience in every way possible and rewards him for it with feats that the audience didn't have.
In real life, a character like Hikki would be an unpopular loner, just like the average /a/non. In anime, he's rewarded with girls to hang out with, girls who fall for him, exciting adventures, etc.

Instead of making Hikki man-up, grow out of his childish behaviour in order to get all that, he's handed it for free. Everyone /a/non wishes he had a high school life like Hikki.
>>
>>119389401
>I will make up my own definitions of mary sue to back up my arguments
This is beyond stupid.
>>
>>119389293
>no anon, it's just you
What kind of newfag are you that you haven't been around while the show aired?

The threads were FILLED with blogging.

But I guess all those posts were made by me and my Chinese blogging farm where I pay people to make blogposts on /a/. Please kill yourself for being a retard.
>>
>>119389419
>In real life, a character like Hikki would be an unpopular loner, just like the average /a/non. In anime, he's rewarded with girls to hang out with, girls who fall for him, exciting adventures, etc.
He is an unpopular loner, he was forced to spend time with sluts, and said sluts were forced to spend time with him.
>Instead of making Hikki man-up, grow out of his childish behaviour in order to get all that, he's handed it for free
Nice bullshit.
>>
>>119389312
To be fair, the anime is the reason why the gary stu accusation was even born. He's pretty much an outcast without any of the negatives associated with it.

Think back to your highschool life and remind yourself of that loser that had no friends. Did he befriend the most beautiful girl in the school? Did he befriend the most popular guy in school? Did he get by with no bullying at all? Did he manage to solve personal problems of some of the most notable people at school?

I highly doubt that.

LN Hachiman is not a gary stu, but S1 Hachiman is bordering on one.
>>
>>119389401
Why don't you go read it yourself instead of generalizing a character based on your shallow understanding from a shit adaption?
>>
>>119389300
Being an Otaku just means you're obsessed with something (anime, guns, etc), not being ugly and lacking having social life
>>
>>119389301
>Sounds like you're the teenager here
Adults aren't that different.
>>
>>119389268
>I'm using it as a disparaging buzzword, but now that I've been verbally smacked down and have no retort I'm going to pretend that it has no negative connotation
What is the point of the term then? Why label a character if you actually believe there's nothing wrong with him being identifiable?

And even if we give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend you're not backpedaling like a motherfucker, you have to realize that the way virtually everyone uses the term is to mock and ridicule.
>>
>>119389439
It's on wikipedia and tvtropes if you really don't believe me, but you clearly have no idea about the subject and are just shitposting. Don't expect a further reply if you're just going to continue shitposting.
>>
>>119389501
>He's pretty much an outcast without any of the negatives associated with it.
He is never listened to, he is ignored and avoided most of the time, I think he has the negative of it, and befriending people you are obligated to spend time with isn't out of the spectre, I do agree though, that putting the "prettiest girl of the school" in that shitty club is cliche as shit though.
>>
>>119389503
Because we're discussing the anime here. If you want to argue he's any better in the source, put up the facts or concede the argument.
>>
>>119389557
>Links TvTropes as a valid and legit source
Try a bit at the very least.
Also, wikipedia has nothing on your bullshit either, fucktard.
>>
>>119389226
Hei is actually much more of a Gary Stu than Hachiman.

Hachiman is a self-insert, but he's not a Gary Stu, because he's flawed and the flaws are addressed. The show rewards him for being a loser. That's not Gary-Stuish at all, that's a wish-fulfilment pity party.
A Gary Stu catches the hearts of everyone by being super special and being super awesome. Gary Stus are power fantasies for chuuni teenagers. The Hachiman type of self-insert is more aimed at ageing, disillusioned otaku who lack any ambition, don't want to change and would rather see someone who's as pathetic as they are handed stuff for free to use it as an escapist fantasy.
>>
>>119389563
>He is never listened to,
He's listened to plenty of times. He's part of a club where he solves people's problems. May I remind you of the camping trip?

>he is ignored and avoided most of the time,
Until he meets two girls who turn his life upside down!

>and befriending people you are obligated to spend time with isn't out of the spectre
Who cares if it's an obligation? He clearly wants it deep down inside and he got it.
>>
>>119389106
>CAD engineering
Even better for those with a degree in engineering. I-I'm smart and I know how to build a bridge s-so I'm attractive, right guys?
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>>119389606
>Wikipedia has nothing
Literally first paragraph for original definition, first source for discussion of modern definition.
>>
>>119389657
>He's listened to plenty of times.
Only during request, which most of the time he is shot down and ignored over yukinoshita opinion.
>Until he meets two girls who turn his life upside down!
His opinion is still ignored apart from Yui.
>Who cares if it's an obligation? He clearly wants it deep down inside and he got it.
In the anime it's unknown if he wants it or not.
>>119389702
The definition is arguably the same, only that in the "current" definition they add self insert as a requisite.
Try a bit more.
>>
>>119389698
Engineer here. There are definitely attractive engineers, but they're pretty rare and are the most alpha of the alphas more suited to being businessmen than engineers.
But yeah, I can't wrap my head around anyone who claims Tats isn't a stu. There are people who defended him so much in the threads with garbage like
>HES BEING USED HES A TOOL WHAT A TERRIBLE LIFE
that I can't tell if it's trolling anymore.
>>
>>119389226
Technically he's not. He's as pathetic as Shinji if anything.

It's just the author portrays 8man's immediate surrounding as dumber than him when actually, 8man is as pathetic as them.

Also, dumbed down the females so they got attracted to the loser 8man because catering to the audience
>>
>>119389301
>No, a character who's deliberately designed with that in mind.
Do you seriously think characters aren't deliberately designed for the audience to empathize with them? That's kind of the whole fucking point. All characters that are meant to be empathized with are deliberately designed to be so. I can't believe I have to state something so self-evident.
>Please, tell me where I wrote that this is a bad thing.
>>119389301
>A self-insert is a character who is written in a way that the audience can identify with him.
I pretty much quoted you word for word.

Next I'm guessing next you're going to pull the same stunt as the other retard and pretend you're not using self-insert with a negative connotation.
>>
>>119389777
>The definition is arguably the same
No? There are clear differences between each, which is why there's classical and modern as discussed in the article. Try more.
>>
Litterally every character in every fiction or non fiction story can be self-insert. You just have to be the right person that can self inserted into that character.
The real issue is whether 8man was intended by Wataru to be a self-insert or not?
Also, he's not a Gary Stu all of you stupid fucks. If he was, why exactly did he need 2 volumes to fix his shit?
>>
>>119389777
>Only during request
Which is really the only time when he makes suggestions aside from two scenes in the anime.

>which most of the time he is shot down and ignored over yukinoshita opinion.
And it always goes back to his opinion/plan being the right one to save the day.

>His opinion is still ignored apart from Yui.
No, it really isn't. Unless you're talking about meaningless drivel like being forced to go shopping.

>In the anime it's unknown if he wants it or not.
We'll see, but if S2 follows the LN at all, it's obvious.
>>
>>119389797
Fuck it, imouto best girl.
>>119389869
>There are clear differences between each, which is why there's classical and modern as discussed in the article
Such as?
>>
>>119389597
You're still wrong regardless of the source.

I'll concede that you have maybe somewhat of an argument due to how glorifying the shitty anime is. But if season 2 is adapted properly, your arguments will be completely void.
>>
>>119389823
>Do you seriously think characters aren't deliberately designed for the audience to empathize with them?
Yes, I do. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. And especially in shows like Oregairu, this is much more pronounced. Whether this is actually deliberate or coincidental due to the author adding autobiographical elements and having lived a similar life as other otaku is a different topic of course.

>you're not using self-insert with a negative connotation.
But I don't. It's also funny that you're trying to make it sound like I did because you realised yourself that you were jumping to conclusions too quickly without having actually thought about what I wrote for a bit.
>>
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I feel sick after reading all these autistic comments
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>>119389934
>Which is really the only time when he makes suggestions aside from two scenes in the anime
I'm not talking about suggestions, I'm talking about opinions or topics in general, he is ignored in classroom and other activities or places apart from that specific club.
>And it always goes back to his opinion/plan being the right one to save the day.
He does it on his own, the others still reject is position. And his solution doesn't solve anything either.
>No, it really isn't. Unless you're talking about meaningless drivel like being forced to go shopping.
It is until volume 6 and 7.
>We'll see, but if S2 follows the LN at all, it's obvious.
Well, I'm talking about anime only, I read the LN, but this thread is about the anime.
>>
>>119389490
>and said sluts were forced to spend time with him.
and ended up liking him
>>119389555
>Wahhh, it's your fault i have shitty reading comprehension
>Why label a character if you actually believe there's nothing wrong with him being identifiable?
Are you saying that only bad things are worthy of labelling? Hell you're an idiot. My first post in the thread was >>119388215 and i only made it to give a counter example to the wrong definition of self insert >>119388047 provided
>>
>>119389943
>Such as?
You said it yourself.
The original mary sue is an idealization. The modern one needs to be a self-insert, but doesn't necessarily needs to be 'perfect' at everything (although it usually is anyways, leading to the negative connotation).

Regardless, it's recognized that the term has changed over the years, lending to my statement that there are two versions. Deal with it.
>>
>>119389944
Of course, but S2 isn't even out yet so you can't use that to preempt my stance.
>>
>>119389934
You do realize his plans typically just put problems on the backburner? Remember what happened with Rumi in volume 9? Also, Hachiman would've burned down to the ground had he not received Yukino and Yui's help.
>>
>>119390050
>You said it yourself.
Then why did you answer me as if I was wrong when I specificied the only and retarded difference? It's still the same shit. Just in case you are unaware of english language, "wish fullfillment" is a character who is 'perfect'.
Nice try, retard.
>>
>>119390023
>he is ignored in classroom and other activities or places apart from that specific club.
Really? I'm thinking back to stuff like the cultural festival club and the camping trip, where his opinion was actually noted (begrudgingly) by others. You should name some specific instances that are actually serious.

>He does it on his own, the others still reject is position.
Who? They all concede that he's right at the end of the day, even if they hate his methods. Look at the camping trip: Hayama disagreed with Hachiman's opinion on loners, but at the end of the day it was Hachiman's extreme actions that saved the girl.

>It is until volume 6 and 7.
Then elaborate.
>>
>>119389649
>the show rewarded him for being a loser
Oh just fucking wait for spring.
>>
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>>119390121
>Then why did you answer me as if I was wrong
Because even now you're still trying to deny that there are two definitions like here:
>It's still the same shit

Is your reading comprehension failing you? You dismissed TVTropes are an invalid source (despite it being very useful for this topic) and when presented with Wikipedia's take on it, you dismiss it as not being significant enough despite the article clearly stating there is a difference to distinguish the term in modern and classic senses.

God, you are the most autistic idiot I've talked to today. You just can't accept being wrong, can you? No one will even remember you after this 404s.
>>
>>119390050
Self-insert doesn't necessarily imply mary-sue though.

Plenty of self-inserts (including Hachiman) are aimed a pathetic audience who want to see their own flaws represented on the screen. They don't watch these shows as a power fantasy but more for the healing-type of experience. Hachiman is a loser but he's still cherished, even loved, despite of his flaws. In that regard the audience is given the impression that they're okay the way they are.

This is very different from your typical Gary Stu protagonist, who dresses in some Final Fantasy style beltan zipper school, who is a teenager who acts mopy all the time but who is also a seasoned combat veteran with super special combat abilities. Have you watched Black Bullet? That protagonist is a typical Gary Stu. These sorts of shows provide a completely different experience, they're more of a power fantasy than the healing type of experience that shows like Oregairu, or many other harem series for that matter, provide.
>>
>>119389649
>Hei is actually much more of a Gary Stu than Hachiman.
>A Gary Stu catches the hearts of everyone by being super special and being super awesome.

Depends what you think of as special or awesome. Hei is a good operative but is also fucked in the head, depressed and in the last season transforms into a bitter alcoholic and a bum (I still remember all those tasty fangirls tears, was so goood.). Not to mention he loses all his powers if i remember correctly? Which weren't that great to begin with.

He wasn't idealized, nor was he someone a viewer would like to be. I don't think he is a Gary Stu at all, taking last season into consideration.
>>
>>119390004
>Yes, I do. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't.
Some characters aren't written with the intent to be empathized with. Some people may empathize with such characters regardless. That's not really relevant.
>But I don't.
Yeah, sure.
>Sounds like you're the teenager here, getting all booty-bothered over someone pointing out that your favourite cartoon idol is a self-insert.
You're definitely not using the term in a disparaging manner.

But if you're insistent on backpedaling, I invite you to answer the same question I asked the other idiot: >>119389555
>>
>>119390209
No matter what happens there, the fact that he got to hang out with cute girls, that cute girls started to fall for him, that he was handed adventure and excitement despite he himself making no effort to actively seek it is already proves my point.
>>
This argument arouses me. I don't even know how the fuck that works.
>>
>>119389649

I never perceived Hei as someone awesome
>>
>>119390229
>) and when presented with Wikipedia's take on it, you dismiss it as not being significant enough despite the article clearly stating there is a difference to distinguish the term in modern and classic senses.
The difference is insignificant to your argument, because you still fail at grasping the meaning of "will fullfillment".
You twist the definition to justify your ignorant argument.
>God, you are the most autistic idiot I've talked to today
I'm not the guy making these threads to shitpost, nor I'm the guy with lack of reading comprehension either.
Whether 8man is or isn't a self insert character, he doesn't has the wish fullfillment characteristic, it doesn't matter how much bullshit you pull out of your ass.
>>
>>119390270
>This is very different from your typical Gary Stu protagonist, who dresses in some Final Fantasy style beltan zipper school, who is a teenager who acts mopy all the time but who is also a seasoned combat veteran with super special combat abilities.
Being edgy and overpowered doesn't make someone a gary stu, although I do agree that Hachiman isn't one. He's just a blatant wish-fulfillment fantasy.
>>
>>119390176
>Who? They all concede that he's right at the end of the day, even if they hate his methods. Look at the camping trip: Hayama disagreed with Hachiman's opinion on loners, but at the end of the day it was Hachiman's extreme actions that saved the girl.
You can see in volume 9 that Rumi is still alone. Also in vol6 in the culture festival commite he didn't solve the problem at all, he just directed all the hate towards him to solve the drama bullshit the short haired girl was pulling.
>>
>>119390104
I don't see why I should take your stance seriously then. The story isn't even over and the purpose of the first six volumes are (season 1) is to build up towards what follows in volumes 7 and beyond (season 2).

It doesn't make sense to start categorizing a character into a certain stereotype with your limited understanding of the character based on a story that hasn't ended yet.

>He's a Gary Stu in the first 13 episodes, but not anymore after!
How does that even work?
>>
>>119389797
8man is the narrator. It makes sense that his surrounding is potrayed to be dumber than him.
>dumbed down female
Dem fightin word m8
What kind of pussy did he earn actually?
>Yukino
10 volumes of development etc
>Yui
Into the hospital you go
>Saki
Well, I agree with this at least.
>Iroha
Unconfirmed feeling.
>Rumi ;_;
First crush in life. Fucking guy help you twice, he's smart and kinda like me.
>>
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>>119390270

>Black bullet Mc
>Cant save shit in war
>get fucked in almost every figth
>cry at the end.
>Gary stu
>>
>>119389698
You must also be able to take out jocks at the snap of a finger.
>>
>>119390311
>you need to actively flirt a girl in order to make she falls for you, else it's bullshit
And being give adventure and excitement is a given for most fiction, this is not a story about a boring person live a boring life and his boring struggle.
>>
>>119390349
>The difference is insignificant to your argument
My argument, from my very first post, is that there are two definitions. Nothing more and nothing less. It is not my fault if you either misread or think that I'm someone else.

Admit that you're wrong and that there are two definitions, or refuse to concede and continue to plug your ears; it makes no difference to me.

>'m not the guy making these threads to shitpost
You are the guy defending 8man in a blatant troll thread at 1AM at night. That's pretty autistic.
>>
>>119390049
>Are you saying that only bad things are worthy of labelling?
Only noteworthy things are worthy of labeling.

You have yet to explain why a protagonist being identifiable is something deserving a label, when you can just say he's identifiable.

You also totally ignored the fact that the only time self-insert is ever used is in a disparaging way.
>>
>>119390304
>You're definitely not using the term in a disparaging manner.
I'm using the term in a neutral manner. It's you who attributes negativity to it - and gets all butthurt.

The point is: it's not particularly great writing, if you're looking at it from a sort of arty perspective, but it still provides good entertainment - and that's what we're looking for.

>What is the point of the term then? Why label a character if you actually believe there's nothing wrong with him being identifiable?
Are you that retarded that you're unable to understand the purpose of classification?

>virtually everyone uses the term is to mock and ridicule.
Wannabe normalfag retards do who wish for their Chinese cartoons to be serious art so their parents and normalfag friends don't give them silly looks any more when they tell them that they're wasting their time watching them. A character being a self-insert is not a bad thing. A show having no higher ambitions but to entertain is not a bad thing.
>>
>>119390501
It's one definition that changed through time, there doesn't exist two definitions, that's like saying that Freedom has multiple definitions.
>>
>>119390350
>Being edgy and overpowered doesn't make someone a gary stu, although I do agree that Hachiman isn't one. He's just a blatant wish-fulfillment fantasy.

I completely disagree. Being edgy and overpowered is actually a pretty good indicator of a Gary Stu.

Calling Hachiman a "blatant" wish-fulfilment fantasy takes it a bit far though, because the show is actually pretty well written for its kind, and occasionally pretty insightful. It's by no means as flat as some critics claim it was.

It's true that it's still wish-fulfilment though.
>>
>>119390358
I've said that I'm talking anime-only. You even said yourself you were talking anime-only.

>>119390363
>I don't see why I should take your stance seriously then.
Then you don't have to. Those are my impressions of the character after a season. They might change, but until S2 comes out we don't know for sure yet.

>How does that even work?
Because if the 13 episodes are conclusive (ie. no S2), then we get someone whose flaws make no difference to the story and he gets handed a harem and exciting school life for free with no change in character.
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>>119390121
>"wish fullfillment" is a character who is 'perfect'

No it's not the same you fucking autistic loser LOL
>>
>>119390618
The anime isn't conclusive, and even in the first season his actions had repercutions.
>>
>>119390563
>It's one definition that changed through time,
As someone who knows a Trekkie, clearly not. Please don't talk shit about topics you know nothing about.

>>119390587
>Being edgy and overpowered is actually a pretty good indicator of a Gary Stu.
But it's not the only indicator. If you were to use those two as criteria for a Stu, the term would literally lose all meaning since nearly every piece of young-adult fiction would have one.
>>
>>119390428
He's a teenager, yet a seasoned combat veteran. He was educated by some super important government guy in some super special martial arts which requires him to yell attack names all the time. He acts mopy and immature as fuck, often yelling at people, yet the show makes it look like he's the reasonable guy who's right all the time. Despite his martial arts powers he's also a cyborg created in some super secret government program which gives him super strength, super vision, etc. All the girls fall for him. All the lolis love him.

Nigger please. Success or failure at the end doesn't necessarily matter. The way he's designed is chuuni as fuck. And he's definitely quite Gary Stuish.

Infinitely more than Hachiman in any case.
>>
>>119390587
How do you write a story that revolves around character development that isn't wish-fulfillment?
>>119390618
>Because if the 13 episodes are conclusive
Well, there you go. The story isn't conclusive, so stop trying to push Hachiman as a Gary Stu until season 2 comes out, not that you'd be able to once it is out.
>>
>>119390671
>The anime isn't conclusive
Why not? Before we knew of S2, it seemed to end on a fairly satisfying note even if the adventure could still continue.

>and even in the first season his actions had repercutions.
Like what? Are you referring to the school festival where people hated him... as opposed to people already not caring about him prior?
>>
>>119390507
>it's not particularly great writing
>I'm using the term in a neutral manner

Jesus fucking Christ. But please, explain to me why a protagonist eliciting empathy from the audience is "not particularly great writing".
>Are you that retarded that you're unable to understand the purpose of classification?
The purpose of classification is rarely redundancy. Your variation of self-insert serves zero purpose.
>Wannabe normalfag retards do
More like everyone does, except for you, who change the definition to avoid looking like total dunces.
>>
>>119390483
Again: he's presented as a loner who got made fun of for all his life. People give him strange looks all the time. He's mopy, distant, etc.

Now due to plot magic he's put in a place where he gets to socialise with cute girls, who all magically fall for him.

A character like Hachiman would in real life probably end up being a virgin loser posting on /a/ right now. Yet in his own universe he's put in a position where he experiences romance and excitement. If that isn't wish-fulfilment, then you're the biggest idiot on /a/.

Keep in mind though: I'm not saying that this is a bad thing. And despite being wish-fulfilment, the show is actually occasionally quite insightful. Still wish-fulfilment though - no reason to deny that.
>>
>>119381697
That isn't the only word that has lost it's meaning.

Such as the word "edgy" has completely been lost on /a/ now and has been resorted to basically anything that is remotely dark and mature and in some cases being logical.
>>
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>>119378171
>/a/
>in charge of knowing what gary stu is
>>
>>119390685
>nearly every piece of young-adult fiction would have one
Pretty much.

Since when were you under the impression that young-adult fiction was particularly well written or attempted to do more than deliver power fantasies to its target audience?
>>
>>119390704
>Success or failure at the end doesn't necessarily matter.

According to >>119390121, to be a Sue you have to be idealized. An idealization, a perfect representation of a concept, cannot fail or it would defeat the purpose of the character.


>>119390716
>Well, there you go.
Are you actually retarded? I'm saying that in S1, before we knew of S2, he's a Stu because the anime is terrible. I never once argued that he would be a Stu into S2 or in the LNs.
>>
>>119390483
>you need to actively flirt a girl in order to make she falls for you, else it's bullshit
If you aren't at least a 7/10, this is true. Hachiman isn't ugly, but he's average at best
>>119390505
Except i already answered you in my former post, you fucking asshole. I did it to correct the guy who was giving a wrong definition of self insert. I don't give a fuck if you or other people give a bad interpretation because the term has become a buzzword.
>>
Are you guys going to do this argument until 600 posts again?
>>
>>119390716
>How do you write a story that revolves around character development that isn't wish-fulfillment?
By not making it wish-fulfilment but by sticking to real life for example?

Keep in mind: I'm not saying that would necessarily be a good thing. Oregairu would be pretty depressing if it were closer to real life.
>>
>>119390852
>Pretty much.
If you think that, then you know nothing of young adult fiction and think Twilight is the pinnacle of the genre. As my social sciences professor used to say
>Educate yourfuckingself
>>
>>119390853
>According to >>119390121, to be a Sue you have to be idealized. An idealization, a perfect representation of a concept, cannot fail or it would defeat the purpose of the character.
He's wrong then. A Gary Stu doesn't need to be "perfect". By making such strict definitions (in regards to Kant we could speak of "rigorisms"), you're essentially making the definition too tight to be applied to real life. In real life, even in fiction, hardly anything will ever fit a too strict definition.

No, a Gary Stu doesn't need to be always successful and always perfect. Being close to being perfect, often at the cost of believability, e.g. a teenager as a seasoned combat veteran who acts all immature yet is still taken seriously, etc. - that are the characteristics of a Gary Stu.
>>
>>119390716
>How do you write a story that revolves around character development that isn't wish-fulfillment?
By having realistic consequences (or even just logical ones) derived from actions? None of this

>I'm a loner freak but my guidance counselor forced me to join a club which just happens to have the most beautiful girl in school who is also a complete loner like me allowing me to meet a popular girl in school who is in love with me because I saved her dog and now both of them want my dick because I solve everyone's problems through self-sacrificial means eliciting sympathy from those close to me
>>
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>>119390704
>all the lolis love him

and they die.
Imcompetency isnt a gary stu thing.
>>
>>119390659
>LOL

Kill yourself.
>>
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>>119390861
>I did it to correct the guy who was giving a wrong definition of self insert.
There is no correct definition, you fucking dumbass, because it's always been a meaningless buzzword.

Go ahead and give me a reputable source for your definition. I'll wait.
>>
>>119391051
He's right though.
>>
>>119390659
Please stop posting for the rest of your life
>>
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>>119391055
Are you that retard who tried to argue against Wikipedia and its list of sources?
>>
>Still wish-fulfilment though - no reason to deny that.
I'm not denying it isn't wish-fulfillment, it's not like there's much thing wrong about wish-fulfillment in the first place. A lot of great literature works (or being considered great) are wish-fulfillment
My point when I'm addressed you is that he's not just getting everything easily with no effort at all. Of course it's plot magic that put him into a position where there can be struggle and development, but all the latter is done by the person himself.
He's the wish-fulfillment type of character, but in reality, it's way harder than it looks.
>>
>>119391105
In reality, everything is harder than it looks. It doesn't change the fact that 8man was handed an exciting school life and a harem with little to no effort. I realize that it is fiction and you have to come up with a scenario to make it interesting if you're basing it on real life, but that's where the wish-fullfillment comes into play.
>>
>>119391105
meant for
>>119390806
>>
>>119390794
>explain to me why a protagonist eliciting empathy from the audience is "not particularly great writing".
It's not particularly great if it requires a lot of suspension of disbelief. What do you think do normalfags and landwhales complain about when watching harem anime? They complain that the girls fall for someone who wouldn't be popular with girls in real life. To them it seems ridiculous. The show fails to motivate that in a believable fashion.

That in itself doesn't make the show bad. A show can be good despite a weak premise, but it's something that still needs to be realised.

>The purpose of classification is rarely redundancy. Your variation of self-insert serves zero purpose.
It does. If you know that a character is designed as an otaku self-insert you know what to expect. If someone tells me that a show has a shounen lead type protagonist I already know what I'm getting into. If someone tells me that a show is shoujo shit, I already know what to expect.

Classification is good. Connotations vary from person to person. Self-insert might have a negative connotation to you, but it does not have one for me.

>More like everyone does, except for you, who change the definition to avoid looking like total dunces.
Unless you spend all your time on ANN, reddit and other shitholes, I don't think so.

People on /a/ revel in being reviled. If a show does not appeal to normalfags that's a good thing.
>>
>>119390861
You could say what 8man did is flirting though. He impressed people, just not actively but as a side effect.
>>
>>119390853
The problem is you sound like you're an expert on Hachiman when all you know about him is his butchered characterization in the anime. Another problem is this series is based on a light novel, so if you're expecting to analyze a character at all, then you'd better be doing it from the source or you'll get a lot of shit.

If this series was anime original, I don't think people would give you so much shit. I know I wouldn't, but now that I'm exposed to the light novels, it's hard to keep my mouth shut when a character I like gets generalized just because he exhibits x and y traits.

Self-inserting and wish-fulfillment isn't a big deal as long the characters actually grow along with the story. Questioning how the story gets rolling makes no sense to me either since we wouldn't have a story in the first place if we didn't have plot magic to get things going.

Whatever, I'll stop being an autistic faggot and stop here. Hopefully the season 2 threads don't turn into shit like this thread.
>>
>>119391105
>>119390806 here.

We're not in disagreement at all then. I completely agree with everything you've written.
>>
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>>119391102
Are you about to post the Wikipedia article, despite it not even matching your definition?

And that is a very shitty wikipedia article, by the way. But I don't see why you would post it, given that its an entirely different definition to the shit you've been spouting.
>>
I'm an aspiring LN writer and I want to write a story centering around the adventures of my teenage boy MC as he finds himself surrounded by cute girls of various archetypes.
Trouble is I don't want my readers to get triggered when people online don't like the self ins- err protagonist.
What sort of flaws should I add? Some that pop to my head is
>bullied a lot or misunderstood
>he doesn't actually want the harem because etc.
>he gets hurt a lot
Thanks in advance!
>>
>>119391319
just write an autobiography, nobody will mistake it for self-insert then, don't worry
>>
>>119390927
>If you think that, then you know nothing of young adult fiction
I wasn't the one who brought it up.

You were the one who said that if going by my definitions young adult fiction would be filled with Gary Stus.

You fail to realise though that this doesn't discredit anything I've written: it's well possible that young adult fiction is filled with Gary Stus, in fact it's well likely, since the young adult audience likes chuuni shit.

Now you say that I supposedly don't know anything about young adult fiction, yet I wasn't the one who brought it up. You brought it up because you thought the criteria realised in young adult fiction. What is it now? Is young adult fiction filled with Gary Stus by my definition or is it not? It's your argument, not mine - I need not know about it because it's independent from my postulations.

Perhaps you should spend less time in social sciences lectures.
>>
>>119391055
>>119391258
I'm the guy you were arguing with. Btw >>119391102 it's not me. I'm aware that things can be vaguely defined, but then in that case giving a definition that is too exclusive is wrong, like >>119388047 did. By his definition only VN MC's can be self inserts.
>>
>>119391030
>Imcompetency isnt a gary stu thing.
You need to see incompetence in relation to everyone else.
>>
>>119391218
>It's not particularly great if its not done well
Yeah, no shit. You're claiming that the fundamental idea of the audience relating to the character is "not particularly great writing".
>It does.
No it doesn't. Your definition says nothing that "identifiable" does not.
>If you know that a character is designed as an otaku self-insert
You're not even using your own definition here, you're using the buzzword.
>People on /a/ revel in being reviled.
People on /a/ revel in taking shits on each other's tastes.
>>
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>>119391478
>By his definition only VN MC's can be self inserts.
That's kind of the point.
>>
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Reminder
>>
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>>119391584
B-But my bombs in their stomachs theory.
>>
>>119391319
Maybe make the MC broken or insane in some way.
Messiah complex etc. makes the MC more special and you can also use it as a flaw.
Besides, "broken" is a cool word. The readers would dig it.
>>
>>119391230
He's not actively approaching the girls though, he's usually reacting to things happening around him, being dragged around by the girls (again wish-fulfilment). Also, the idea that helping girls, solving their problems, and so on made them fall for you is already a nerdy wish fulfilment fantasy. Being friends to a girl, helping her gives you friendship - not love. You're falling in that friendzone trap, thinking love was just friendship taken a step further - but that's not the case. Listening to a girls problems, fixing her computer, carrying her stuff, all that shit doesn't get you any closer to her falling for you if the chemistry simply isn't there.
>>
>>119391584
If you really think so, you're an idiot. There are a lot of characters written on purporse by the author for the reader/viewer to self insert precisely by giving that character the personality of the target audience. That's the point.
>>
>>119391319
>Trouble is I don't want my readers to get triggered when people online don't like the self ins- err protagonist.
The types of people who'd read a harem LN don't mind self-inserts.

The types of people who complain about them are normalfags and landwhales, who aren't your target audience.
>>
>>119391319
Not your blog, fuck off
>>
>>119391740
For the umpteenth time, making a character for the audience to relate to and empathize with is not the same as self-inserting.

Self-inserting is something that your autistic ass does, and just because you self-insert with every character you form a connection with doesn't mean that its the norm to do so or the same thing as identifying/empathizing with a character.
>>
>>119391510
>Yeah, no shit. You're claiming that the fundamental idea of the audience relating to the character is "not particularly great writing".
No, you've clearly failed to understand what I wrote. Read it again.

>Your definition says nothing that "identifiable" does not.
"identifiable" is a meaningless quality. "self-insert" is an established term where everyone knows what to expect. Obviously there are different degrees of self-insert. Araragi for example has self-insert qualities. So does Hachiman from Oregairu and so does your average bland harem protagonist whose name you've forgotten because he simply wasn't that important. Dismissing "self-insert" as an insult is something normalfags do.

>People on /a/ revel in taking shits on each other's tastes.
If you think that then you probably need to get the fuck out. But we might as well go further and test your character: do you think /a/ is the best place to discuss anime on the internet?
>>
>>119391720
Yukino's the only one who I feel doesn't hit any of your points as far as falling in love because she was helped since that hasn't really happened yet. Well, except the cliche beautiful girl meeting, etc, but whatever, that's insignificant given their progress.

The other girls were helped, so I guess what you're saying applies to them.
>>
>>119391895
Do you realize now you're the one arbitrarily forcing your definition against your own post? >>119391055
>There is no correct definition, you fucking dumbass, because it's always been a meaningless buzzword.
>>
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>>119391898
>No, you've clearly failed to understand what I wrote. Read it again.
Again, I'm pretty much quoting you verbatim.
>>119390507
>The point is: it's not particularly great writing, if you're looking at it from a sort of arty perspective
That's exactly what you wrote. What am I misinterpreting? If that's not what you meant, it's your fault for not clearly articulating yourself.
>"identifiable" is a meaningless quality. "self-insert" is an established term where everyone knows what to expect.
>a real word that would get used in actual critique/criticism is a "meaningless quality"
>a shitty buzzword with no actual definition is an "established term where everyone knows what to expect"
Alright, I'm done. This kind of idiocy is too much for me. You only seem intent on dragging me into some kind of stupid No True Scotsman/ad hominem trap at this point anyway.
>>
>>119392067
Not really. Self-inserting is a self-explanatory action.

Calling a character a "self-insert" is a meaningless buzzword.
>>
>>119392154
Are you seriously telling me you're unable to understand what I've written here:

>It's not particularly great if it requires a lot of suspension of disbelief. What do you think do normalfags and landwhales complain about when watching harem anime? They complain that the girls fall for someone who wouldn't be popular with girls in real life. To them it seems ridiculous. The show fails to motivate that in a believable fashion.
>>
>>119391769
No. Anyone with actual taste and sense will despise faggot protagonists who don't deserve 5% of what they get handed to them.
>>
I don't think "wish-fulfillment" is a bad thing, and the option to "self-insert" is avaliable by almost every work that comes with it

And besides I don't know what you guys are even rambling about anymore
>>
>>119392272
You're not saying anything.

You're saying "it's not good if it's done poorly".

No shit, Sherlock.
>>
>>119392220
It has a meaning inside the thread, which people have been using. Sorry if you're not okay with the existence of the word "self-insert" as a noun, but is actually useful within the context of what we're discussing.
>>
>>119378171
Gary Oak
>>
>>119392467
It's like these guys don't even self-insert as a girls panties, bra, or socks
>>
>>119392514
>It has a meaning inside the thread
Are we reading the same thread?

There's very clearly more than one meaning, and it seems to me that everyone is just making up their own and changing it when it suits them.
>is actually useful within the context of what we're discussing
Yeah, I imagine that a word that can mean whatever you want it to is very useful within the context of jerking off your ego and feigning superiority on a Cantonese pictogram image board.
>>
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>>119392626
Exactly, shame on them
>>
>>119392650
most people have been using the term self-insert as a noun by the same simple logic you interpret it as a verb: "a character that was designed on purporse for the reader/viewer to insert as". It's the meaning used into the main context on this discussion, and then the first guy i quoted said that can only apply to characters with no personality which is not appropiate for the context we're discussing outside VN's. Man it's not that complicated.
>>
>>119392943
>"a character that was designed on purporse for the reader/viewer to insert as"
You're forgetting the part where you and the other retard made the outrageous claim that this is the same thing as a character being designed for the reader/viewer to relate to/empathize with.
>>
>>119392474
You must be the most retarded faggot on /a/ right now. I've told you exactly under which circumstances it's not done well. If you're too retarded to understand simple, written English, then I can't help you.
>>
>>119393104
No, idiot, i never said that. I'm also not the same who is criticizing 8man. Why do you keep moving the goalposts?
>>
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>>119393198
You're so fucking stupid you don't even see what you're doing.

You are seriously autistic. Not meme autistic, I mean you legitimately have a problem with communicating with people and expect people to just magically comprehend your thought process.

Let me try to explain our exchange to you.

You claimed that a "self-insert", which, in your own words, is any character that the audience identifies with, is "not particularly great writing".

I asked you to explain your reasoning as to why a character being identifiable is "not particularly great writing".

You responded with "It's not particularly great if it requires a lot of suspension of disbelief."

Do you not understand the problem with explaining an absolute statement with a conditional? You went from saying "this particular element is not particularly great, period" and then explained that by saying "well, it's not particularly great if it's not done well". No shit?

I'm guessing you never meant to make an absolute statement in the first place. You don't think a character being identifiable to the audience is inherently bad, but that sometimes it's taken too far to the point of pandering, which is not particularly great writing but sometimes, in your opinion, entertaining. But your dumb ass, unable to properly articulate itself, made that absolute statement anyway, "explained" it with the stupid conditional, and proceeded to be utterly baffled that I didn't automatically follow your autistic thought process and know your predisposition.

I hope that helped, and I hope you'll reflect on how you communicate with people in the future. Remember that any person you're communicating with isn't privy to whatever is going on inside your head.
>>
>>119389095
I really wonder why are /a/nons trying to argue over terms that have as much meaning as calling someone an idiot
>>
>>119393969
I don't blame you for not keeping up with this argument, but that's not really what it's about.

I'd just ignore it in full.
>>
can this now be a discussion thread about 8man in general?
fuck gary, and fuck stu.
>>
>>119393678
>Do you not understand the problem with explaining an absolute statement with a conditional?
Are you the one who just called me autistic? I think you're the one who's autistic because I've given you the circumstances under which a self-insert can be considered bad writing and which is why many consider "self-inserts" in general bad writing. The idea that something in order for a general statement to be made needs to apply to everything is something an autistic would make, since reality is rarely absolute - only maths is.

You're a subhuman who got told and is now debating semantics because of it; discussing whether I was debating absolutes or particular cases rather than the matter at hand.

Enjoy your told.
>>
400 replies to a shitty bait thread that gets created several times a day.
>>
So according to this thread is every male lead in fiction a Gary Stu?
>>
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>>119394430
You're finally beginning to catch on.
>>
>>119394362
I'm going to baby this for you and dumb it down as much as possible:
>"Apples are disgusting."
>"Why is that?"
>"Rotten apples are disgusting."
That was our exchange, simplified. If you can't see where you messed up here, then you're hopeless.

The only thing I got "told" is that I should never bother arguing with idiots.
>>
>>119394574
Your example doesn't apply because there aren't way more rotten apples than non-rotten apples. In general, the majority is taken as representative for the whole. Again, you're not dealing with mathematical sets here but with real life.

The reason why self-inserts have a bad reputation is because of what I've told you. In many, if not the vast majority, of them, people perceive certain things as flaws.
>>
>>119378171
That guy was such a Gary Stu. He's supposed to be an awkward loner. But he's smart, witty, always has an intelligent reply to everyone, doesn't give a fuck, confident, can talk to hot girls without it being awkward.

Of course, he doesn't have amazing reality bending powers, but this isn't a shonen. He is overpowered for what he is, a loner high school student.
>>
>>119382453
>one thread is made up of /a/'s collective

nice try. we still love 8man
>>
>>119381977
He is he very definition of Gary Stu: Gary Stu is an IDEALIZED character, often but not necessarily an author insert and/or wish-fullfillment.
>>
>>119382453
8man is a undoubtedly a self insert for antisocial cynical teenagers, hiki, who are a LARGE portion of /a/ BUT he is not your typical Gary sue. As told in this thread he has a lot of flaws and overall quite pathetic.
If /a/nons whant to be like 8man then i dont even know how pathetic they are now. Maybe they just whant to go back to school years and imagine themselfs as someone a bit more confidend in themselfs like 8man.
>>
>>119394430
never change /a/
>>
>>119386204
nope he's just jesus
>>
>>119388953
>Self inserting to Araragi
You have to have a serious pair of balls to compare yourself to Araragi
>>
>>119394953
Idealized as like, perfect? hell no, he's far from perfect at all.
>>
>>119395846
The whole "blank dont lose" thing and his ability to outsmart everyone.
>>
>>119394430
Well, congratulations! You figured it out! Now what's the next step in your master plan?
>>
>>119396063
>The whole "blank dont lose"
Exactly, as part of a team, of which her sister usually does the greater part. The ability to outsmart everyone is basically his only ability since Shiro is better at memorizing, rationalizing, calculating, i.e. everything that's not bluffing.
>>
>>119385226
He hasn't brought any cancer, faggot anons did.
>>
>>119396771
He did nothing wrong.
Thread posts: 428
Thread images: 57


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