Villain chart thread

>>118999513
Mid tier is the best.

>>118999513
From which show is elder god tier villain in the middle?

>>118999513
This chart is awful and you should feel awful.

>>118999513
>reinhard
>villain
What the fucking fuck
He is the protag

>>118999513
>Griffith
>reluctant
Tell that to Casca and Guts.

>>118999513
wait, who's elder god mid?

>>118999642
>>118999602
Tex
He is also not a villain.

>>118999513
This chart is dumb when it's used on /v/ and it's dumb when used here. What makes someone a good villain is how good and interesting the character is, not their motivation.

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>>118999602
>>118999642
Yoshii from Texhnolyze,

>Kaiki
>villain

>High tier description
>Squealer to the letter
>Squealer is in elder-god tier

While I don't disagree that he did nothing wrong, high-tier was LITERALLY made for him.

>>118999668
Completely agreed. OP is retarded.

Antagonists arent always villains, OP

>>118999672
>>118999657
thanks, hwhat about right meh tier?

ANDOU needs his own tier

>>118999617
Go back to bed Kircheis, Yang is the protag.

>Yoshii
kek
While I agree he's a great character, he doesn't exactly fit the "villain" title nor does he fit the "elder god tier" description.

>>118999711
wixoss

>>118999602
>>118999642
>Not having seen Texhnolyze

>>>/out/

>>118999668
/thread

>>118999719
It's an ensemble cast with no single protagonist. Yang and Reinhard are the two most principal characters.

>>118999602
Texhnolyze

>>118999712
word, elder god of good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq1RnemrR28

>>118999756
And one is the protagonist, the other is the antagonist.

>>118999719
Yang died without fulfilling anything.
He is just a cog in the machine, a follower of the democracy ideal even when it is obvious that it is wrong with silly politicians.
Reinhard is the true hero, fixing what he thinks is wrong by being the dictator.

>>118999873
That is incorrect.

High tier left looks vaguely familiar

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>>118999668
Well, motivations do matter, but not in a super-generalized sense like this. Everything in OP's image is a valid motivation and can drive people to commit villainous acts in real life. It's the specifics that make the character. Not to mention, there are plenty of characters who are nuanced enough so as not to fall into any of OP's categories, or several of them at once. Pic related.

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>>118999712
He ditched Kaiji, who he just met on the boat, to clean his debt and have a clean start with some cash. I think a lot of people would have done the same.

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>>118999513
>Ulith
>meh tier

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>>118999918
cause it's my cock, remember last night? ooooohhhhhh

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So according to this chart Kotomine Kirei is a shitty villain.

>>118999513
Yoshi was just a little kid who was disillusioned and wanted to raise hell desperately seeking some kind of change. His motivations were compelling but his execution needed work. He spent too much time making himself look like a pompous asshole which is what got him killed Hardly god tier and not a villain in the slightest. Kano was more of the villain but even then he was pretty generic.

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this retarded chart that categorizes the quality of villains based solely on motivation has been around for far too fucking long

>>119000036
More like mid tier.

He tried to have a normal life but couldn't fight his own nature in the end.

>>119000036
He is a mid tier villain, and Fate/Zero is a mediocre anime.

>>119000077
And it fails at that too because "i wasn't a bad guy, dudes, I just like had a different viewpoint" is the shittiest villain ever.
I don't even know why you would call someone a "villain" if he is pretty much a hero/anti-hero on the oposite side of the conflict. That's just an antagonist.

>>119000036
His motivation was sort of meh (I think it's more in like with "it's his nature") but as a character he brings himself a bit higher up due to how he initially struggled with trying to be a good person.

>>119000036
I'd put Kirei at high tier.

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>>119000137
>Kotomine
>Fate/Zero
Kotomine is like 100 times better in the VN, specially in the Heaven Feels route when his character gets developed and explained.

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According to this, Dio Brando should be a shitty villain.
But I love him anyway
Also, what about Gendo?

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>>118999513
you need to add one more "villain" to elder god tier and pull tex from the list

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Is meh to mid tier any better than just mid tier?

>>119000203
Meh tier.

If he cared so much for his wife he shouldn't have let her get in the robot in the first place.

>>119000149
You're confusing "motivations that are hard to disagree with" with the much more common "lol I was ACTUALLY doing things because of this, I'm not evil at all!" wherein they still act unnecessarily cruel or 'evil' and don't explain their reasoning until the last moment.

Can someone help me to find an exception to this list?
I don't think this is right, still I can't find one.
It seems I'm not the brightest.

>>119000103
He never really accepted his own nature.
I mean, he knew he was fucked up but he never came to terms with it and accepted it. He spent the rest of his life trying to know if it was okay for someone like him to exist.

>>119000036
Yeah he is pretty uninspired
Ohhh Evil pastor, never seen that before

>>119000036
Mid tier, but I'd bump him up one tier because of the execution

>>119000279
>It seems I'm not the brightest.
This much we can agree on.

>>119000279
It isn't right because a character/villain/antagonist/whatever isn't solely judged on their motivations. Their personality, cunning, and many other factors are important too and this chart doesn't address those things.

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>>118999513
Kaiki should be in a magical higher tier than everything. The description being
>Literally a better MC than the actual MC and the realest nigga.
Also with reasoning better than that of the MC.

>>119000308
But he isn't an evil pastor.
I mean, he is evil but not because of the Church.
If anything, his father teaching him the Church's morale code and things like that prevented him from becoming a crazy psycho and actually being conscious of how fucked up he was.

>>119000308
You're generalizing. He was a fun character to ponder on in the VNs.

>>118999513
DIO:shit tier
Kars: Great Tier
Kira:mid tier
Diavolo:Meh tier
Pucci:high tier
Valentine:Elder god tier.

Pretty true because in terms of best villain
Kira>Valentine>Pucci>kars>Diavolo>DIO

>Griffith
>reluctant
Keep telling yourself that.

>>118999513
>Mein Kaiser
>Villain

>using edited /v/ images
>/v/ logic

>Petty revenge villains
>High tier

>>119000397
Reminder that Stairway to Heaven was all Dio plan, Pucci just execute it.

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>>119000279
Hi, this is Queen Raindevila. She is a head and pair of arms attached to a tree that is devoted to extinguishing all love in the universe because she was not loved by an angel that she liked. All she does is send out comical henchmen to make trouble for young couples in love while brooding. She is a high tier villain according to her motivations

>>119000149
I have seen so many garbage versions of this thread and the fact that every time there are barely anybody who dismisses it for the trash that it is is infuriating. Maybe it's always been a troll thread though and nobody actually believes this shit

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What if I happen to find genuine evil and cruelty for it's own sake to be far more interesting than well-intentioned extremism? It's not that unrelatable, after all how many of us here on 4chan haven't done something mean because we were bored and just because we could?

>>119000483
"I was screwed over so I want to change things for the better" does not equal "I want to get revenge", it's about having a lasting effect on how things work.

>>119000514
me, cause i'm not a sociopath

>>119000514
This.
I fucking love people who are truly evil. Watching someone who envoids the most fucked up side of humanity feels more interesting to me than someone who is just doing a good thing using "evil" methods.

>>119000483
>>119000564 here
I actually confused 'elder god' for 'high' tier. What I said only sort of applies, depending on the character.. sorry for the mistake.

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Sometimes you like a character who is delightfully evil. Delphine rules the world and behaves like it.

>>119000590
I think it depends entirely on how the character is played out. Those horrible "tehehe I'm super evil execute all the infants" characters are just no fun. Johan though had an interesting backstory and the way he went about things left me wanting to see more of his twisted worldview play out.

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Is Shougo in EG, Great, or High tier?

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Do these three belong on Great or Mid tier?

>>119000739
Yeah, of course.
Crazy pathetic evil who rapes puppies is lame. I like characters who are genuinely evil but know how to keep their cool and act with some elegance.

>>118999513
newfag here, can someone tell me who are the charcters in "meh" tier....

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Looking back, it's hard to call anything she did actually evil. She was a huge bitch about it though.

>>118999668
It's a chart about motivations, not the villains themselves. You're overthinking it. You can have a well written villain who just does evil things because he wants to be an evil prick, but that doesn't mean the motivation is something good or hard to write.

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>>119000590
This. Genuinely evil and fucked up villains are much more entertaining and likeable/hateable when they're well executed. Pic related (he should have his own tier imo)

>>119000590
>love people who are truly evil
And then they become 100 times more shittier when they reveal some tragic backstory as if to justify them and that it's "not their fault they're fucked in the head".

>>119000203
Well, he's very charismatic, so I think it makes up for his 1 dimensional character.

Characters can have a lot of depth and still be bad.

>>119000203
If anything, probably the "bad situation" tier (with a side order of ambition, which this chart leaves out entirely). The chart doesn't really get the characters it labels as bad situation right, though that doesn't apply at all Griffith (ho should be "just evil" tier), and arguably Kaiki (who is either "mystery" tier, "just like that" tier, or "tragic back story" tier).

>>119000861
No, it really is about the villains themselves. It's in the wording: "Villains who [...]". The subject is not the motivations, but the characters who have some motivation or another.

>>119000834
Boku no samidare
and
Boku no read the thread and lurk more.

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>>118999712

>>119000036
I'm really fond of characters like Kirei. Broken characters who originally tried to be good but eventually realized their evil nature are the best.

>>119000904
>>119000925
>>119000203
Why was he evil again?
He saved earth from the Angels and, if I'm not wrong, his plan was to become tang alone to see his waifu in tangworld. SEELE were the ones who wanted everyone tanged, right?

>>118999513
Boring chart for boring people. Affable mustache-twirling villains who don't need to justify themselves are the most fun to watch.

>>119001053
I, >>119000904 was talking about Dio. If you really want to talk about Eva, go to an Eva thread. There's a couple going on right now.

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Except Wang was better than Rainhard.

>>118999723

Yes he does.

His goal was to get humans to repopulate Earth.
And he tries to achieve it by messing up with Lux's stability, and making pleb overthrow the Class and be free to leave Lux.

But he's a villain, because he does it by bringing chaos and death in the fucking cave.
He even says he enjoys hearing people suffer before he kills them.

Fits perfectly with the description

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>>118999981

These charts are idiotic. There are good villains who just lust for power and shitty villains who act evil based on situation, for example.

>>119000397
Aside from the other pillar men, Kars IS evil

>>119001287
I like villains who are either well-executed or their argument just completely destroys whatever poor excuse the protagonist has.

>>119000514
Reality is stanger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense.

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I've always liked these charts, I wish someone would make more of them

The quality of an antagonist in a story is completely about their actions/personality/interactions within that story and nothing more. Generalizing motives and trying to bunch villains into "tiers" is autistic at best.

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>Kaiki
>Great Tier
What situation is he in? And how is he remotely reluctant? He loves being a swindler. The closest tier for Kaiki seems to be a combination of meh tier and shit tier.

We still don't know much if anything about him. The only motivation we seem to know is his love of money, which is essentially power.

But again, as others have said, it's completely retarded to base the quality of a villain (is he even one?) on his motivations alone.

Wouldn't Griffith be shit-tier?

>>118999513
Shit tier a best.

Or are you telling me you didn't loved watching Asuna being raped right in front of Kirito?

>>119001187
The other point of the description is about the "hero". Texhnolyze didn't have one. Ichise doesn't come anywhere close until maybe the last quarter if not less.

Yoshii has his reasons but there's no opposition. He's just a character doing things just because.

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Is Kamui a good villain?

What about Shogo?

>>119001529
NTR is the worst fetish, anon.

>>119001529
>NTR
>good
SAO may be shit, but NTR is unacceptable.

>>119001526
No but this bait is.

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>>118999513
>Griffith
>Betraying all of his comrades to horrifically violent deaths
>Raping his best friend's lover
>All because he couldn't keep it in his pants.

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>>119001404
>Sovereign
Every time

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According to fans, this is one of the greatest villains ever.

>>119001534
Kamui is the perfect example of a "great tier" villain that is actually complete shit.

>>119001604
All because his boyfriend left him, because he couldn't stop being a pretentious asswipe for one second.

>>118999513
Why does it skip from great to god tier.

All those guys are god tier, elder god tier is when the hero's own worst enemy is himself

>>118999513
Remove KLK or go back to /co/

Am I a bad person for dropping Tex? I got really bored of it from like episode 8 or so.

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>>119001404
>Ozymandias

>>119001688
No, you just have a shit attention span further worsened by your time spent on the internet.

>>119001678
You're mad about KLK, but not SAO or Akame Ga Edge?

>>119001404
This could really use an update. Some good villains have appeared since it was made 5 years ago, and /jp/'s is so entry level it hurts.

>>119001662
and right after all of them had just saved him from torture and eventual execution

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>>118999513
>Joker is meh tier

Fuck off

>>119001792
>anime
Fuck off /co/, and take your capeshit with you

>>119001792
I'm pretty sure this is a re make of a super villain list and he's actually placed in shit tier.

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>>119001404
>Leonardo Leonardo

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Was Bizon a good villain?

>no Garou tier

What about villains who are a force of nature. Somebody like Johan.

>>119001903
According to the chart: Yes
According to anyone with taste: Fuck no.

>>119001903
>muh Hina
>spends 90 years planning how to get a revege on a teenage boy for stealing his waifu
>ends up carrying a shitty coup that lasts two months as most and gets him horribly killed
Yeah no

>>118999513
Every villain follows their nature. This tier is bullshit. Just hypocrite or not is enough to separate villans.

>>118999513
Animus is high tier by these standards, did the person who made this even read Biscuit Hammer? He was retaliating against a world where he and his sister are abused by destroying the past.

>>118999513
>what is makishima

>>119000205
but he's not a villain, he's the hero we all need

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>>119001791
Griffith is actually a great villain. He's not trying to justify everything he did because muh greater good, he's doing everything for his own sake. Unlike Guts who tries to compromise and repair, Griffith destroys everything that comes near him, one way or the other.

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>>119001903
BIZON DID NOTHING WRONG

>>119001206
Gus was a great villain because he almost had a supernatural aura about himself. You never knew what he was going to do next.
Even if his death was pulled out of a cartoon

>>119002048
>tumblr
>pony shit
>Kek la Kek

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>>119002048

>>119001534
shogo is elder god tier both on this chart and reality

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Sports anime in general destroy this chart's credibility

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>>119001979
If your waifu became real, and then ran off with another man, your mind would implode too.

>>119000785
Mid tier at best. The whole reason he's a villain is his nature as an asymptomatic.

>>118999513
Why is Ragyou in Shit Tier? She's Elder God Tier when you consider that she was experimenting with hybridizing Life Fibers with Humans in the first place because she saw no way that Humanity could defeat the Life Fibers and so she tried to allow Humanity to live on even after the Life Fibers destroyed their planet by merging Humanity with the Life Fibers and going with them across the cosmos. If those damn fool kids hadn't kicked the hornet's nest and expedited the OLF's awakening she may well have succeeded in time.

>>119002099
It's ironic because Bizon's the one who tried to steal somebody else's waifu looking at the timeline.

>>119002070
Yeah, because him suddenly getting spidey sense and realizing that there was a bomb in his car and a dude watching him from a far away building wasn't pure BS.

>>119002093
Makishima was right

>>119002152
Kill yourself.

My favorite villains are ones that have some kind of ambitious endgame goal that might not necessarily be "good" or just but they will stop at nothing to achieve it, even if it means being an evil piece of shit.

>>118999513
Wheres Char and Coronel from Hellsing?

>>119002014
Ulith also spelled out her motivations as well, she'd be in mid-tier for following her bitchy nature.

>>119002200
Doesn't matter, because he has just as much of a claim on her as Aoba, if not more, due to her amnesia and technically he's known her since childhood, while Aoba only know her since college.

>>119002210
Well, the last five minutes of his life doesn't negate the past two and of a half seasons of it. It was great acting as well. There were a lot of subtleties to his body language.

who is the villain in meh and shit tier on the right

>>119000397
Swap Diavolo and Kira and I agree. Even though I prefer DIO to Cars.

>>119002272
>>119002099
Bizon please go. You can't claim people.

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Kanekipede makes a great protagonist and antagonist.
>Do you know how it sounds to have a live centipede put into your ear?

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>>119002152
So she was pretty much the Syndicate

>>119002275
I'm not talking about his death.
I'm talking about that time when Walter put a bomb under his car and Gus was walking into it but then suddenly stopped, looked in Walter's direction and then walked away.
What the fuck was that? I was even expecting him to say that he felt Walter's killing intent.

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>>119000397
Summed up perfectly.

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>>118999513

He did nothing wrong.

>>119002014
No, he literally had a God complex. His whole motivation for destroying the world was to attain all the knowledge, including the birth of the universe. Don't you remember their back story and what happens when he first destroyed Earth?

>>118999513
>griffith
>reluctant

>>118999668
It's just a way to call other people's shows bad, because muh anime elitism

>>119000036
What makes him a top tier villain in any capacity?


>hurr I only find enjoyment through human suffering

Wow, real deep.

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Elder God Tier

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I'm still not sure where Johan would fit.

He scales between Meh tier, Mid tier, High tier and Great Tier depending on how much you understand him.

Hell, you can even argue that he's Elder God Tier because his motives are more true than Tenma. He acknowledges that people are only equal in death and that nothing actually matters up until he almost dies.

>>119000203
Dio Brando is an absolute shitty villain. Probably the textbook example of a shitty villain. But that doesn't mean you can't enjoy him.

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>>118999513
Where on the scale does this glorious fucker stand?

Initially he just lusts for power, aspiring to break the limitations of his strength.
His motives are mysterious and even after his 'defeat' it's not really clear what he was doing.
It seemed as though he was trying to change something, by killing the soul king he could alter the status quo.
In the end his deeds might have more of a positive purpose than the protagonist himself.

>>119002446
The fact that he fought off against his own nature for most of his life and even when he kind of came to terms with it he was never okay with being that way.
He tried to know if it was okay to be as twisted as him till the very end.

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>>119001404

>ozymandias

For a Rorschach fanboy, this is the worst villain of all time.

>>119002499
The only real fault I can think of with his is that the rest of the world would be screwed over.

But damn, it still is hard to argue against, considering how much it would benefit his country.

>>118999513
Reinhardt is not the villain.
He and Yang Wen-Li are clearly the two protagonists.

>>119002560
>For a Rorschach fanboy
Bwahahaha, what a fucking faggot.

Do you actually think Rorschach was right in any fucking way? He was insane, willing to destroy to world again for his stupid fucking ideals.

Onest is Ultra Shit tier, he's the worst villain of all time. Also Mika from Psycho Pass would be at the same rank as him.

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>>118999513

>>119002507
Johan didn't do shit

You don't even see how he does stuff because he just makes stuff magically happen

He has very little presence

>>118999513
The concept behind the chart is shit.
Evil isn't a real thing, it's just the opposite of 'good' in a moral system. Moral systems are set up to achieve certain ends. The actual rules and labels of 'good and evil' are not very important.

You are also using the word 'villain' wrong, what you are posting is 'antagonists'

You literally did everything wrong

>>119002507
>his motives are more true than Tenma
Slow down, Coldsteel.
Tenma isn't saying everyone is equal, he's just saying you can't chose to save a mayor over someone else who arrived before.

>>119001404
>suddenly /co/ shit
Fuck off.

>>119002737
Johan just blackmails and charms everyone into doing stuff. He's just that good.
Or he just does ridiculous bullshit by understanding people and getting into what they want the most or avoid the most.

He may have had very little presence on screen but you constantly felt his hand in everything.

>>119002781
And money, influence, power and other factor make life unequal.
Tenma repeatedly said that life should be equal.

Johan acknowledges that there are inequalities but goes further and simply says that they are all worthless in the end. The hole of nihilism wins all.

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Where does 'Protagonist that is so easy to hate that they might as well be a villain' stand?

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A good villain is somebody you want to see lose.

>>118999513
I thought I was the only one on /a/ that saw Takarajima.

>>118999513
>The Major would fall under shit-tier
>Pretty fucking great villain

Nah, your list is shit.

>>119002679
god tier but died too early

>>119002258
>char

High- Great

>>119002986
>not wanting to marry little brown Anno

>>119002646

Lies beget more lies. So what happens when everyone realizes the "alien invasion" was bullshit?

Exposing the truth is the only choice, even if it leads to a nuclear war.

>>119002986
It's called shit writing.

Anyone who liked Shit Suckass Yaoi is cancer.

The show had no followers on /a/ until the yaoi and yuri bait scenes. Then it blew up into a weekly shitposting general.

Fuck SSY.

Fuck anyone who liked it.

Fuck anyone who still mentions it as a real anime.

>>119003009
The Major had a ridiculous amount of charisma and love for war that you just couldn't help but love him. But he's still a shit villain.

>>119003052
You sound really mad

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>>119003002

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What about a villain who fights for freedom liberty and democracy

>>119002936
>And money, influence, power and other factor make life unequal.
It's not about everyone having the same life and ressources, it's about treating people the same way when it's a life-or-death situation.

>The hole of nihilism wins all.
Pretty sure that's the opposite of the message the story conveys

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>all these jojofags

>>119003026
>So what happens when everyone realizes the "alien invasion" was bullshit?
No one needs to know.
And there is no proof either to fully expose it either.

Exposing the truth would simply do nothing.
Let the millions die for the entire world to die.

And who will remember the truth when there are no humans?
Ideals die when no one is alive to uphold them.

History is built on lies and death corpses.
Truth brings nothing except when there is gain in exposing it.

Exposing the alien invasion would gain nothing but more destruction and no one would win anything.

It's stupid.

>>119003080
Get out, cancer.

>BUT MUH BONOBOS XD
No, fuck you. It's not okay to talk about a shitty anime just because they baited you with boys kissing boys and girls kissing girls.

If you removed those scenes from the show, no one would have talked about SSY at all. It's a piece of garbage series with nothing to offer on any level.

>>119003192
But I remember it having more interest before all of this happened.
You're probably one of those that dropped it because this happened.

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>>119003173
God forbid someone mention a popular series with many entries along with many villains in a thread about villains in anime and manga.

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>The guy whose arms and legs I broke injured me with a dump truck.
>He came today to run me over with a dump truck. What would I do if he next drove it into my home, what would I do if my family ended up dying — I couldn't help but get more and more afraid.
>That being the case, all I could think was making it where he can't operate a vehicle ever again.

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>>119003192
You sound really irrationally angry.

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>>119003258
I remember it having a tiny legion of dedicated fans that, at best, barely broke double digits. Release day threads might get 150 posts at most.

Then the gay shit happened and the series blew up.

I, for one, am disgusted I have to share the board with weak-minded faggots like that.

>>118999513
>great tier, villains who only do evil things because of the situation they find themselves in
>mid tier, villains who are only obeying their nature and doing what they do to survive
How are those different?

>>119003121
His actions was just pure capitalism. And it was amazing.

What about the enigmatic Eiichiro Hoba?

>>119003184

The alien invasion was an arrogant dick move on veidt's part, honestly.

If manhattan was going to another galaxy anyway, veidt could've convinced him to destroy all nuclear weapons on the planet and do something to become public enemy #1. It would've been victimless.

>>119003315
What makes you think it's okay for a boring, unoriginal, nonsensical piece of shit anime to capture hundreds of weak minded fools by baiting them with the most poorly written gayshit possible?

What makes you think that it's okay to suddenly pick up an anime and watch it just because it had on screen homolust?

None of that is acceptable. You're simultaneously killing the industry, killing anime fandom, and killing /a/.

>>119003435
I tought SSY was a novel before the anime. Was the novel full hetero?

Master Asia tier: Clearly misguided, but their repentance still causes manly tears.

>>119003495
Not one bit. On top of that anyone who was following the show before it aired knew about the gay.

>>118999632
It was the will of destiny, he was destined to do what he did. In all honestly, it was a Guts' fight against his own destiny that he was able to even grow close to Griffith and stay with him as long as he did. Guts should have died the moment he was born really.

If destiny hadn't chosen Griffith from the very beginning then I don't think he would have done what he did with Guts and Casca.

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>>119003588
The people who were following it before the on screen gayshit were sci-fi nerds who legitimately thought that the series had something interesting to say (it doesn't). Those people are idiots, but they're nothing compared to the drooling shitposters who came in droves once these scenes happened.

>>119000363
>Kaiki should be in a magical higher tier than everything. The description being
>>Literally a better MC than the actual MC and the realest nigga.
>Also with reasoning better than that of the MC.

We should call it "Superior Replacement MC tier"

>>119003495
The manga was even worse.
Full of pandering, fanservice and girls on girls action.

>they encourage girl x girl action before they turn 16 to keep their power in check or libido in check according to the world building

Kaiki isn't even a villain.

>>119003169
>It's not about everyone having the same life and ressources, it's about treating people the same way when it's a life-or-death situation.
He has that same principle on everything, not simply life-or-death situation.

>Pretty sure that's the opposite of the message the story conveys
Monster has a lot of messages.

One of them is that humans try to find their own meaning in the world despite it not having any because we try to make sense of our lives.

Johan simply went beyond that sense at a young age and embraced nihilism while finding his own way to make life more interesting.
Johan simply reconfirms that everyone's notion of wealth, political power, truths, concepts are all meaningless in both the grand scheme of things and in its influence on others.

>>119003427
Are you kidding?
There was literally no other move possible to save mankind.
Rorschach was simply getting rid of criminals one by one, in a single city.
The root of the problem, mankinds general political issues, could never be solved by him in any possible way.

I will admit that Ozzy's plan might not work in the long term if the truth becomes completely exposed but Rorschach had no alternative. He would have kept beating up thugs in the street until the bombs killed everyone.

>destroy all the bombs
The issue is not that.
Manhattan created new sciences and it lead to more insane weapons.
Nuclear weapons was simply the analogy of the 'only' weapon which would destroy all the world because of human arrogance.
Manhattan already gave free energy, free food, free pretty much everything.
Yet humans sought to keep wanting to kill their neighbors.

Destroying all weapons would not have solved anything.
And Manattan becoming enemy (somewhat similar to how the movie did it) would have worked if he established himself as the dictator of the world.
The problem is that Manhattan cared little about the world or its bickering.

>>119003996
I'm certain the manga is drawn by a hentai artist.

>>119004153
That's andou.

Sure is uncomfortable levels of \ /v/ in here.

>>119004165
Yes, it is drawn by a hentai artist and it really damn shows.
The designs and poses are lewd as fuck and the author really loves to show tits as much as possible.

>>119003996
>not liking pandering
>in a world where teens must have orgies or the world will literally destroy itself from angst

The manga just delivers what the anime could have done if it had the balls rather than just show a naked scene here or there.

>>118999873
Neither are antagonists, if anything the corruption of the FPA and Old Empire are the antagonists.

>>119003427
The world would just build more nuclear weapons, and why would manhattan care about the earth? The only reason he stayed so long was because he was banging chicks

>>119004253
What did Oikawa Toori draw though?

>>119004227
You mean /co/

>>119004158
>He has that same principle on everything, not simply life-or-death situation.
No he doesn't. It's not communism the manga.

>humans try to find their own meaning in the world despite it not having any
Monster is about the value of life and how it should be enjoyed instead of being edgy. Not this.

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What about Johan?

>>119004227
>>119004320
I bet you shitheads liked SSY.

Fuck off and die.

>>119003173
>liking ping pong
>not liking jojo

>>119004444
>i can't read threads

>>118999513
What? Griffith's only motivation is his greed to become ruler of the land. He is fucking evil.

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>>119004325
>communism
You're going into extremes.
Tenma tries to save as many as he can though whenever possible.
He's not a saint but he does try his damned best.

>Monster is about the value of life and how it should be enjoyed instead of being edgy
There is no value in human life.
Only the value we attribute to it.

Hence why the Major was seen as having more value than the boy.
Cynicism and nihilism always win.

Johan wasn't being edgy, he just acknowledged that truth and saw the world as ugly, full of petty crap, humans scabbing over pointless things, even those hopeful things. Love, money, influence, power, prestige, honor, family.
All meaningless.

But he found that by continually risking his life, by ''walking on the edge of the rooftop'' he saw life as beautiful each day. Like all humans, Johan simply found his own meaning in the void.
His was simply not bound by anything normal people sought after. And the reason he didn't sought after them was because he had already gained and saw everything at a very young age.

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>>119004572
He's also guilty for bullying Spooky Skeleton

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>>119004572
>greed is evil

>>119004671
>>>/lit/


They love you right?

>>119004671
You are an evil soulless cunt.

>>119002272
She never would have met him if not for Aoba and Bizon has known her since childhood and been friendzoned that long too.

>>119004629
>Tenma tries to save as many as he can though whenever possible.
Yeah, that's what he means by "every life has the same value". It doesn't have anything to do with wealth or political influence. It's just humanity.

>There is no value in human life. Only the value we attribute to it.
Yeah, and Tenma says you shouldn't decide one life should be protected more than another just because it will benefit you. That's the point of the story.

>Cynicism and nihilism always win.
Calm that edge.

>Johan wasn't being edgy, he just [...] saw the world as ugly, full of petty crap, humans
You don't go out very often, am I right?

>Love, money, influence, power, prestige, honor, family. All meaningless.
Yeah, everything in life is meaningless just because you and a fictional character said so. 10/10

>>119004671
reminder that she's still right

>>119004770
nice knee jerk reaction m8 :^)

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>>119004733
/lit/ hate Ayn Rand but they do love their Stirner, which is funny since their ideologies are somewhat close. Stirner is just deeper.

It's somewhat funny since Stirner would say that Griffith is simply gathering whatever he deems as his own property and there's nothing evil about it.

>>119004770
Don't be a Spook.

>>119004890
I love how you have literally nothing to say.

>it's just humanity
>it's the point of the story
>calm the edge
>lol what a NEET permavirgin shit
>lololol life is meaningless, so DEEP, you're such an idiot

The point of the story is that we all go about in our own life, trying to find our own meaning to it. And that's it.
Tenma saying ''you shouldn't'' doesn't mean it doesn't happen every fucking day.

Every life does not have the same value. That's why Johan tells him that humans are only equal in death.
People are born with different background, different levels of beauty, intelligence, inheritance, privileges, etc. Just because it should be treated that way doesn't make it so. Tenma was simply naive.

>>119005157
>it's just humanity
Did you even read my first sentence? I explained why Tenma's principle isn't "everyone should live in the exact same conditions", as you said, but "save the most people you can"

>it's the point of the story
Yeah, the point of the story and of all these "fillers" is that human life should be appreciated.
What did you answer already? "there's no value in human life because I said so"

>calm that edge
What else should I answer to "Cynicism and nihilism always win (again, just because I said so)" ?

>lol what a NEET permavirgin shit
Still better than "everyone around me is shit"

>Tenma saying ''you shouldn't'' doesn't mean it doesn't happen every fucking day.
The fact it happens doesn't mean it should happen. That's the point of a moral.

>Every life does not have the same value. That's why Johan tells him that humans are only equal in death. People are born with different background, different levels of beauty, intelligence, inheritance, privileges, etc.

Again, Tenma doesn't want everybody to have the same privileges. All he says is that life has to be treated the same way for everybody, and that he'll save the child over the mayor once more (hence why he saves Johan at the end).

>>119005546
Humanity is not a value.

>should be appreciated
There is no point to the fillers. It just shows humans struggling in their own way, in their own problems, in life.

>That's the point of a moral.
And the moral is a naive one but only if you side with Tenma.

>hence why he saves Johan at the end
No, he saves him not because everyone should be treated the same but because he could help as much as he can. It has nothing to do about being treated equally. There is nothing unequal about deciding not to save Johan at the end.

>>119001755
Here's a newer one, but it's /co/ only.

What are some names of anime with elder god tier villains? Looking for something new to watch

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>>119005810
oops

>>119005774
>Humanity is not a value.
Good, I never said it was.

>There is no point to the fillers. It just shows humans struggling in their own way, in their own problems, in life.
So, it shows people not being edgy faggots and appreciating their simple lives.

>And the moral is a naive one but only if you side with Tenma.
"Human life should be preserved as long as possible and not destroyed for personal interests" is naive now?
That's what I meant by edgy.

>No, he saves him not because everyone should be treated the same but because he could help as much as he can.
So, he could help, and as a doctor, his job is to save people. So, he treated Johan like any other person. You're responding to yourself.
It's not hard to follow, seriously. The series begins and ends with Tenma saving Johan. It's not a coincidence.

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>>119004671
>her work is praised.

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>>119005856
There's a Heroes one too

>>119001023
>characters who originally tried to be good but eventually realized their evil nature are the best

This needs a tier of it's own. Probably higher than MID Tier

>>119005989
It's alright anon, keep on with your charitable redistribution. That is, until you run out of other people's money to redistribute.

>>119000397
>Kars
>a reluctant villain who only do evil things because of the situation he finds himself in

kek

>>119005963
>Good, I never said it was.
You implied it and I denied it.

>So, it shows people not being edgy faggots and appreciating their simple lives.
Buzzwords dumbshit.
No one in Monster appreciates anything they have. No one except the children.

>it's edgy
Boo hoo, cry a river if you have nothing to talk about.
Goddamn if all you have to say is edgy this and edgy that, there is no fucking discussion.

>So, he treated Johan like any other person.
Because he would do so to anyone else, it is not equality, it's being a fucking saint and helping as much as possible.

The beginning and ending overlapping is not a proof of anything.

If not for a miracle and fate had not intervened, Johan would have broken Tenma.

>>119005989
Her work is shit but her gets overly bashed by some of the most ridiculously stupid arguments.

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>>119000514
>how many of us here on 4chan haven't done something mean because we were bored and just because we could?
Probably most of us, because psychopaths like you are only 1% of the population. Although they're 25 percent of the prison population, so you have that to look forward to.

>>119006220
>You implied it and I denied it.
All I said was that Tenma just wanted to save as much people as possible, which makes your first statement about power and wealth irrelevant.

>No one in Monster appreciates anything they have.
Did you really watch/read it? I'm seriously doubting it now.

>Goddamn if all you have to say is edgy this and edgy that, there is no fucking discussion.
Saying "naive" isn't any better.
I don't see how wanting to preserve human life and not putting it higher than your personal material interests is naive. It's called not being an asshole/murderer.

>Because he would do so to anyone else, it is not equality, it's being a fucking saint and helping as much as possible.
No, it's called doing his job. He's a doctor.

>If not for a miracle and fate had not intervened, Johan would have broken Tenma.
Tenma would have shot Johan to protect the kid and eventually lived with it. Tenma already "killed" Roberto and it didn't break him. And this time, Johan was menacing a kid's life.

>these two niggers debating

>>119006459
>Did you really watch/read it? I'm seriously doubting it now.
Tenma doesn't appreciate that he was helped by Johan to have the life he had.
Eva doesn't appreciate what she has until she lost it.
Grimmer feels nothing and appreciates nothing.
Lunge doesn't appreciate his family and only cares about his job.
Martin doesn't appreciate anything.
Nina was brainwashed and lost everything so she doesn't count.
The Baby and every Nazi party member guy don't appreciate their power.
The thief guy appreciates nothing and just steals for more wealth.
The two psychologist have nothing in their long carrer.
The cop who shot the kid drank and ignored his family. Only when he lost it did he realize it was important.
The fat rich guy doesn't appreciate his wealth.
The fat old prostitute doesn't appreciate her place in life from being a whore and wants out of it but only by abusing others.

Do you want me to fucking list the entire fucking cast entirely?
The only people who appreciate what they have are those who help others.
The girl who helped patients, the old couple who helped Tenma on the roads, the kids who are innocent.

The moral is only by helping others do you appreciate what you have. But by being alone, you only wallow in your misery and want more.

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>Arguing over Johan Liebert

>>119006459
>No, it's called doing his job. He's a doctor
If he's just doing his job, it has nothing to do with equality or morals, now does it?

>Tenma would have shot Johan to protect the kid and eventually lived with it.
No, it would have broken him.

I would argue, although foolishly, that Tenma knew that Roberto wasn't dead because of how little he felt after he ''killed'' him.

The memory of Johan, only living with Tenma would have broken him much more than simply killing Johan.

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>>119006886
>people arguing over the story involving the character Johan Liebert is the same as arguing about the character itself
Fucking idiot.

Johan is still one of the most developed and interesting character in manga/anime.

>>119006757
>Tenma doesn't appreciate that he was helped by Johan to have the life he had.
Tenma loves life and was perfectly happy at the end.
>Grimmer feels nothing and appreciates nothing.
He does. He doesn't feel as much things as others but he cried when that kid was mindbroken, and he loved picnics and the such.
>Lunge doesn't appreciate his family and only cares about his job.
Yeah, until the ends where he gets his life back on the tracks.
>Nina was brainwashed and lost everything so she doesn't count.
She counts. She's clearly portrayed as enjoying life, even after the ending.
>The Baby and every Nazi party member guy don't appreciate their power.
>The thief guy appreciates nothing and just steals for more wealth.
They don't live a simple life.
That yakuza guy explicitely said it : "all I wanted was to share a meal with people, I shouldn't have gotten involved in all this shit"
>The two psychologist have nothing in their long carrer.
Did you skip the SOL scenes?
>The cop who shot the kid drank and ignored his family. Only when he lost it did he realize it was important.
Yeah. And he got better. He enjoyed life until Johan killed him.
>The fat rich guy doesn't appreciate his wealth.
He appreciates being with his son.

There are plenty tertiary characters who are shown appreciating their lives. That doctor, the little geezer who ran the 511 Kinderheim before, all the teenagers, most people Tenma met and/or brainwashed.

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>>118999513
>Silver
Whoever made this chart is a man of good taste. Though I'm not sure I agree that he was retaliated against misdeeds done to him.

>>119006888
>If he's just doing his job, it has nothing to do with equality or morals, now does it?
No, his morals will influence the way he does his job (i.e. saving the kid or the mayor)

>No, it would have broken him.
Tenma already shot to kill before. Many times. He even shot Johan in the library but missed him.

>I would argue, although foolishly, that Tenma knew that Roberto wasn't dead because of how little he felt after he ''killed'' him.
Bullshit. Tenma said multiple times "I killed a man". That's an important plot point. He doesn't even believe it when he sees Roberto is alive.

>The memory of Johan, only living with Tenma
That's not what the manga shown. Tenma's doing fine after everything, even with the memory of Johan.
And even if the memory of Johan had somehow tormented him (it would be bullshit, but let's say it happened), it would have nothing to do with Tenma and Johan principle clash. It'd just be a nightmarish picture Tenma couldn't get rid off. Because Tenma can kill, that's not the issue in hand.

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>>119007018
Christ, not even I am that protective over him.Chill.

>>119007514
Johan is the apex.
Johan is the destruction.
Johan is life.
Johan is death.

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>>119000203
DIO isn't really JUST evil, he does just for power but I think it's more that he loves it! He calls sucking Joseph's blood the ulitmate high, he's so happy at the idea of ending the Joestar bloodline he wants to sing about it and during DIO's World he's constantly smiling.
A villain who just loves being evil needs to be one some "fun tier". They're not really deep in any way but watching them be a dick is fun.

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>>119007306
what do cocks taste like doublas-chan

>>118999513
idk, sociopaths exist. So the idea that there cant be evil people is not too far fetched

>>119008885
Sociopaths can be very nice people.

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>>118999602
Hachi no Shonen

>>118999977
Her motives are also pretty far from being a mystery. She is a Sadist that found a supernatural way to fuck with people, that is pretty much it

>>119004671
>Griffith
>not wanting to impose his will on others
>his morality is defined by the philosophy of someone who did not want to impose her will on others

>>119000205
where is this guy from again?

>>119009902
Griffith is not greedy though.

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>>119006001
>yfw Kaneda is Mama Luigi

>>119001404
>Sinstar
He that scared me so much as a kid.

>>119009944
He still wanted to impose his will on others.

>>118999513
>reinhard
>villain
what the fuck

>>118999513
Where would L fit into this chart?

>>118999873
>implying that a narrative needs to have a concrete protagonist and antagonist
>not knowing that the antagonist can be the setting itself
go back to school

WE ARE HUMAN TOO!
man what a great great villain or not?....

>>119010103
higth tier?

>>119004671
Lol. Atlas Shrugged is absolute shit.

So where does Takasugi fall in this?

>>119010027
He has nothing related to Ayn Rand except her ideal to become a hero and do whatever you want. Though her philosophy only works in the modern world.

>>119010232
>implying the first 200-300 pages weren't pretty decent

>>119002037

What is he from and what did he do?

>>119010103
Considering he is really only a villain when viewed through the perspective of Light, I would say Elder God Tier.

>>118999513
what tier is Johan ?

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>>119001404
>Villains
>/co/ and /v/ garbage

Eat shit.

>>118999697
yea, but turning all the mugbloods into slave rats seems a little worse than just a 'misdeed'

>>119011265
>>119011265
>lines completely out of context
>lines that are bad translations
>lines that aren't even canon

I really hope you're not trying to imply that chart is any better.

>>119002991
A good villain is somebody you want to see win.

>>119011690
That would be an anti-hero

>>119006001
>>119011265
that was already posted you stupid shit

>>118999719
>Yang is the protagonist
>dies like 30 episodes before the end

If anyone was wondering, OP is a troll

But what can you expect from neo-/a/?