What's the point of Rin training her whole life to be a

>>118835314
What?

>>118835314
>Q: In the other Type-Moon works, who else besides Arc can fight against Servants?
>A: If we're working on the condition of one on one, with an extremely average Noble Phantasm. Generally most of the 27 Ancestors, Kishima Kouma, Aozaki Aoko. If it's just a defensive fight, but would still be a fight, then Ciel. Shiki (Rakkyo), Shiki (Tsukihime) are no match for Servants....but Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality) might be able to go as far as the Ciel class.
Tons of people can theoretically kill a Servant but much less that can beat and kill them in actual fight and Shirou isn't one of them

Being a mage isn't really about killing servants.
That's just a weird byproduct of her dad being really shitty and forcing the grail war on her.

Also Shirou is a cheater who has his future self DLing knowledge into him through time travel shenanagans.

>>118835853
>believing any of the bullshit Nasu says

>>118835942
>>118835853
Why is Nasu such a hack? Why is Urobuchi not writing anymore Fate stuff? Why is F/Z only good Fate thing? Why is Nasu still alive? Why is Shirou such a disgusting and shitty protag? Why is he so shallow and self-insert for shitty otaku?

>>118835853
>believing Nasu's bullshit

What?
Shirou trained every day of his life. He probably trained way harder then Rin.

>>118835942
>>118836076
>fanfiction.net
Is a better place for you then

>>118835853
Nasu is the type of guy who believes that rules like those are made to be broken.

>>118836026
urobuchi is just a bigger hack

>>118835853
>In the other Type-Moon works
>other
Shirou literally beats several servants in Fate/Stay Night.

>>118836110
Things an author says off the top of their head when being asked stupid questions are not actually canon.

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>>118835314
>What's the point of Rin
She props up Fuyuki city's drug racket.

>>118836128
>Urobuchi
>hack
Pick one.

>>118836110
You know 70% of the things Nasu says are bullshit since Tsukihime now takes place right before F/SN's prolouge even when Tsukihime's ending is in October(Fall) while F/SN takes place in January(Winter).

>>118836146
He beats Gilgamesh. Because he's a perfect counter.

Using Archer's arm doesn't count, because he's using Archer's skill, not his own.

>>118835314
Because Shirou has been cheating and has been prepped from the very begining

he should have been killed a hundred times over, but has an early advantage by having avalon in him. And while Rin has trained in all sorts of magic, Shirou has been training in only one specific thing his whole life

>>118835314
>no training

he trains everyday...

>>118835314
>What's the point of Rin

to have sex with old men

>>118835314
Rin killed Berserker in Fate.

>>118836205
>>he trains everyday...
lel he just trains his body

>>118836241
Sakura killed every servant in HF.

>>118836244
I don't have a bait reaction image.

Just pretend I do.

>>118836146
>今回の対決は、士郎が“自分を最大まで鍛錬、運用”していることが前提なので、
>割といい勝負になる!?と思われがちですが、バゼット嬢は対魔術師戦に特化した
>プロフェッショナル。技術、経験、そして戦術。すべてが上回っている彼女が
>相手では「壊れた幻想」をもってしてもシロウの不利は動かないかと。
>あとほら。容赦ないし、このお嬢。
>Bazett shits on Shirou in his prime
>She's far from Ciel class
Shirou a fag

>>118836270
>Sakura
>not Shadow

>>118836184
He also beats Saber Alter in Sparks Liner High.

>>118835314
What? Shirou trained his whole life too.

>>118835314
Plot device.

>>118836296
>Shadow
>not Sakura's bitch after Dark Sakura emerges

>>118836317
>Dark Sakura
Name one servant she killed.

Probably because his power is way greater for fighting anyways, since he can create weapons that can match servants, and most servants are heavily resistant to magic anyways making them a shit matchup for any mage.

>>118836310
... With Archer's arm.

>>118835314
>Archer makes chinese rip-offs of chinese swords
>Shirou makes chinese rip-offs of rip-off chinese swords

TOP KEK

>>118835314
>What's the point of Rin training her whole life to be a mage when Shirou can kill a Servant with no training?
Justify her tsundere.

>>118836344
So what? That's knowledge he would've had at a later point anyway.

>>118836336
Gilgamesh.

>>118836310
with archer's arm

>>118836379
There's a difference between a teenager and a Servant. Complaining about how a Servant is able to kill a Servant is just being stupid.

Rin can make money with her magic, Shirou won't make any money with his magic.

Unless he volunteered to be experimented.

>>118835314

Proving once again that

Fighters > Wizards

>>118836289

>Bazett shits on Shirou in his prime

I think this is pretty stupid, considering how god damn powerful UBW is.

>>118836336
>>118836389
FUCKING TOLD NIGGAS

>>118836389
>Gil
>dies to Dark Sakura
Did you even read HF? He died to Shadow.

>>118836389
King of Jobbers.

>>118836178
I pick Gargantia and Psycho-Piss.

>>118836379
Did you miss a part where Archer arm boosted all his stats. And that's actually arm that doing everything. It wasn't "I reproduce the strength of my enemy" but "my left arm will reproduce the strength of my enemy".

>>118836507
>Gil
>not dying to Dark Sakura
That moment was when Dark Sakura was born.

>>118836489
>Against a normal opponent this is little more than a mildly annoying ability, but it is the natural enemy of a certain King of Heroes

>>118835314
exactly. it's just indicative of the typical misogynist bullshit ingrained in anime culture.

>>118836582
No, the moment Dark Sakura was born was when she killed Shinji.

>>118836663
that was shadow

>>118836648

That's just spamming it retard, but pulling out weapons and utililizing them lets him do shit like block Berserkers attacks or shoot them as arrows.

Shirou can just project gay bulge and kill most servants, servants a shit

>>118835314
What kind of stupid fucking question is that? Do you think the reason people train to be mages is so that they can kill Servants?

>>118836312
His training was shit though, and he's useless for any magic that isn't projecting or related to projecting.

>>118836696
Are you pretending to be retarded? That was the moment Sakura accepted that she was Shadow and became Dark Sakura. Gil dies a few days before that.

Are we getting a new Fate/Stay this week?

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>The heroes have no defense against gay bulge

>>118835314
because being a mage isnt all about close quarter combat

Rin took a life off Berserker.

Rin is stronger than servants.

>>118836699
That's assuming that there's enough distance between them for sniping. He can't do much in normal battle conditions

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>>118836804
>gay bulge is impossible to dodge
>Saber dodges it

>>118835314
Could kerry kill a servant?
Could Kotomine kill a servant?
Could taiga kill a servant?
Could taiga become a servant?
What would be taiga's NP ?
Next grail war when?
Zero spin off where kerry summons EMIYA when?

>>118836389
>>118836502
>>118836582
>>118836696
>Gil dies day 12 to shadow
>Dark Sakura emerges on day 14
You fucking what?

>>118836830
She had to burn all the gems those faceless old men traded her

>>118836864

Like I was said, tracing strength off of weapons lets him do stuff like block Berserkers attacks, which should mean it should have no trouble against Bazett who is significantly slower than a servant anyways.

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>>118836900
>Could kerry kill a servant?
Pic related.

>>118836899
She doesn't, she got hit in the heart, but A luck>D Luck.

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>>118836900
Taiga eats Servants for breakfast

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>>118836804
I-its too strong!

>>118836900
I always liked to think that Taiga was EMIYA's friend before it was revealed to be a man.

>>118836961
She didn't get hit in the heart.

>>118835314
If Shirou had gotten training at least the anime would be a fun shounen and a lot less boring by this point. He wouldn't "being a hero is the best ideal oh wait i died let's fight again tomorrow" all the time and the show might even get to the level of Fate Zero.

http://strawpoll.me/2737821
http://strawpoll.me/2737821
http://strawpoll.me/2737821

Why do we even bother discussing powerlevels and servants when it's pretty clear anyone can beat anyone if they use the right strategy.
C'mon guys, is Nasu, powerlevels mean shit to him.

>>118836933
Still worth. If it wasnt BERSERKER, and maybe some weaker shittier servant, she might have been able to kill one.

>>118836468
He can fake shit with projection and sell it.

>>118836935
It's sword that block the attacks and only attacks in front him. Bazett could just move to his side and punch his head off

>>118837083
>http://strawpoll.me/2737821
proxy-kun destroyed the poll

>>118837083
>tfw no one wants to see Archer Herakles

>>118837081
Well, good thing you haven't read the VN because it's worse there
> I don't feel my arm
> I can barely stay conscious
> My vision blurs
> I'm about to die holy fuck
> Next day
> Just kidding I'm okay lmao
It lost impact when you realize Shirou could lose an arm and he'd still be up and ready to fight the next day.

>>118837083
Goddammit proxyfag.

>>118837087
Some servants just objectively can't beat other servants, like Fake Assassin can't do shit to Berserker, all he can do is stall.

>>118837117

>and only attacks in front him

Nice headcanon, nowhere is this stated.

Considering the sword moves on its own it will block all attacks that he wouldn't normally perceive, such as Bazett pulling off such a maneuver.

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>>118836468
Rin wants Shirou to project valuable stuff and sell it in H/A.

>>118837239
Shirou with Avalon>>>>>>>>>>Shirou. The same was with Kerry as he could do shit beyond his limits like square accel

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>>118837230
It'd just boil down to who can shot ballistas the best since Gil has "True Nine Lives" as well.

>>118837266
Some Servants just objectively can't beat other Servants, like Avenger can't do shit to anyone, all he can do is stall.

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>>118836961
>D Luck.
>Lancer
>implying

>>118837332
>Cu has D-rank luck in Extra under Rin

>>118837329
Herakles has Hydra's venom.

>>118837301
Smart girl, but she still will please the old men.

>>118837312
Even without Avalon he stills fights pretty well. Sure, he sometimes complains about the wounds but in the end it has no impact on the outcome.

>>118835853
>Shirou isn't one of them
>canonically kills the strongest Servant

>>118837083
>try to make an interesting poll
>ruined

>>118837363
>extra
>canon

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>>118837365
Gil has Chains of heaven.

>>118837433
>written by Nasu
>not canon
Next thing you'll say Notes is not canon.

>>118836533
You do realize he often writes the overall scenario now and not all the episodes, right?

>>118836900
>Next grail war when?
>Zero spin off where kerry summons EMIYA when?
never

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>>118837239

I think all that was buildup so that in HF when he unseals the arm, all that stuff's happening but it DOESN'T heal up like it did in the other routes, and it makes you realise just how fucked he is this time.

>>118837269
His body can't keep up with his sword. If his sword suddenly movie to more than 90 degree his spine will break

>>118837528

And considering that the sword moves faster than any human, what makes you think that Bazett would be able to side step without getting slashed?

>>118837380
The only time without Avalon is near the end of Fate where he's shit and HF where he got Archer arm instead

>>118837527
>Magic Resist A
Judging by the description does that shit resist True Magic as well?

The real question is Taiga a virgin?

>>118837609
Only if it was A++ or EX

>>118837527
>I think all that was buildup
Nah, 2 routes worth of "holy shit now I'm REALLY screwe-- never mind I'm okay hahah" used over and over again?

>>118837527
>Lawful moderation
Alignments don't work that way!

>>118836648
That's stupid when you know UBW can be used to spam swords like GoB, shown clearly in the game.
Considering GoB rapes almost everything in FSN UBW should do the same or more

>>118837606
>The only time without Avalon is near the end of Fate where he's shit
And he still beats not only Kirei but also the mud of the grail that was trying to kill him. In the end plot armor was stronger than actual coherence.

>>118837592
Sword reacts only to the attack if she jump first and then attack it will move only then

>>118836776

It isn't so much that she accepted being the Shadow as it was her breaking down, she was merging with it more as she was becoming the vessel by Servants dying and becoming part of her.

Zouken even says it wasn't a complete merge, but if everyone, especially Shirou had abandoned her, it would be complete, her will would vanish and her mind would die (which is when he would take her body) . Her hope was driving it off until then, which is why the Shadow only manifested when she was unconscious. It's the whole reason why Zouken tried to troll Shirou into killing her.

>>118837609

Yes, magic resistance still works against true magic, considering that most heroes had fostered their MR by being exposed to the true magic of their time.

>Although Emiya was a magus during his life and possesses unusual Projection sorcery, his affinity with “sorcery” is much worse compared to Heroic Spirits of ancient times who saw sorceries and True Magics as commonplace. The level of Magic Resistance is a result of this.

http://completematerial.pbworks.com/w/page/40077644/The-Servants-of-the-Fifth-Holy-Grail-War

>>118837681
Who cares, alignments in Fate/SN are shit and most of the time inaccurate.

>>118837634
Iri had sex with her.

>>118837527
Diarmuid's NPs are really dogshit.

>>118837681
I assumed that was a weird translation of Lawful Neutral.

>>118837735

No, you are making things up, the sword will attack when it feels it should, as it runs on Saber's battle experience. Saying that the sword only reacts to attacks is bullshit, since it went up and slashed Berserkers arm off when it was first created.

>>118837527
>gille de rais
>Chtulhu fhtagn
I got so buttmad over this. Even more when he actually summoned chtulhu

>>118837660

Yes, because when he releases the arm you expect him to get better just like every other time, but he just keeps on getting worse and worse. It's just some more zetsubou heaped on top, which HF loves.

>>118837681
Read: Lawful Neutral

How useful would Rule Breaker be to Shirou outside of the grail war?

Can it just dispel any kind of magic? Like Boundry fields and shit?

Why doesn't Caster just use Item Creation to make something that can 1shot Berserker or have a constant supply of Immortality potions?

He lucked out on the Origin, Affinity and participating in a war of a thousand magical uber-swords.
Really, if there were no NPs in the war and Servants fought on their own merits, he would probably lose hard against everybody. But it just so happens that NPs are pretty much the most powerful factor in a war.
It's a case where his inherently weak ability happens to be able to beat inherently strong Servants because the conditions were lucky for him and it's used right.
In particular, during UBW he just shamelessly copies Archer, a version of him that spent HIS WHOLE LIFE purely seeking an ideal way for him to fight, for his unique physique and his unique RM. And he rips off these methods found through a lifetime of fighting. It's obvious he's gonna be progressing incredibly fast.

Why does Cu look like a recolored Diarmuid?

>>118837681

Alignments don't work, for starters

>>118837858
Because diarmuid is cooler

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>>118837836

He has the Necronomicon, right?

>>118837707
>UBW can be used to spam swords like GoB
Reall? I remember it only used once in UBW against Saber. It took Archer several seconds to ready swords and it was like only 14 of them. Sounds like shit compared to GoB

>>118837836
Lovecraft-like gods are canon in the Nasuverse, it's not just Gilles.

>>118837858
All Irishmen look the same. Diarmud is probably one of his decendants from random bitches he fucked while drunk.

>>118837965
Archer actually shot a rain of swords against Kuzuki the same way Gil does with GoB in UBW.

>>118836026
>Self-insert
Like any otaku can cook, work out everyday and "broken" emotionally like Shirou.

>>118837991
>Lovecraft-like gods are canon
Thats the problem for my austism

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>>118837681

>>118837965
Archer uses sword spam to destroy the Shinji-greail and to kill Caster.
There is no description that say he needs time or whatever

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>>118838030
It was sneak attack. Archer had time to ready them. Also nowhere is said that it's as fast as GoB spam

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>>118837804
Deermud vs EMIYA

Who wins?

>>118838117
why did gil asked sakura to kill herself? I don't remember

>>118835853
Why is Aoko so strong? Is she a Mary Sue?

>>118838230
Yeah, like Shiki.

>>118838219
EMIYA just have to spam long range shits

>>118837965
Archer/Shirou can both project multiple swords at a time for swordrain and use the swords in a deployed UBW via telekinetic control. The result is the same as GoB which makes it all the more jarring Archer doesn't have the same bullshit "I can't counter every Servant" Gil has when he also has so many NPs they are in the thousands and has been shown to possess NPs that are the natural counters to Saber and Rider.

>>118838219
EMIYA stomps Diarmuid.
Diarmuid really is mediocre as fuck.

>>118838224
He's a big bully.

>>118836026
>Why is Nasu such a hack?
He's got potential to be a good writer but he throws it out of the window when his desire to pander to otakushit takes over him.

>Why is Urobuchi not writing anymore Fate stuff?
Because he was just a guest writer?

>Why is F/Z only good Fate thing?
It hardly can be called good, but that's subject to debate.

>Why is Nasu still alive?
He takes care of himself.

>Why is Shirou such a disgusting and shitty protag?
>Why is he so shallow and self-insert for shitty otaku?
Pandering to otaku. Nasu would be much better not caring about them and just writing whatever he wants.

>>118838117
What's so wrong about breaking a cup?

>>118838230
How strong?

>>118838279
>Diarmuid
>weak
ayy

>>118838219
Diarmuid. Gáe Dearg would destroy any projection in one hit

>>118836648
Nasu is always drunk when talking about Powerlevels.

>>118838219
Depending how his red spear works on his projected stuff.
If it absolutely ignores projected weapons, then yeah, EMIYA is fucking boned, if it doesn't, Dirtmud gets shit on.

>>118838269
A limitation on using UBW is the mana cost. Each NP takes a large amount of magical energy to make. GoB on the other hand costs almost nothing, which is why Gil can just spam it all day.

>>118835314

Rin is powerful all around and has a huge amount of spells to draw upon. She just doesn't have much in the way of fighting a legendary fucking hero.

Shirou is just MinMax'd.

>>118838301
That cup has personality.

>>118838297
>pander to otakushit takes over him.
First of all that's Takeuchi and second without Takeuchi's brilliant Ideas TM wouldn't have come this far.

>>118838335

No, projections are still NPs and are referred to as such. It might use magic to create them, but the finished product is a Noble Phantasm.

>>118836507

It was the combination of the two really. The Shadow is a manifestation of AM, which is also part of the Grail system. Gil was taken in and melted into nothing by the grail in the 4th war, but ended up getting a new body. It's even stronger thanks to Sakura's powers, and since Gil got a body made from the grail, he gets munched that much easier since it's pretty much the Grail itself working against him again.

Sakura, who by then is almost one with AM as its avatar and the grail vessel, turned him into mana when she was unconscious before he broke out, though she barely remembers the event since her mind and body were in shambles by that time. Like getting rid of a bad stomach virus. Or a gas station hotdog.

>>118838335

Every single blow destroys projections because they're made of paper, Cu burns through like thirty in the first fight. Don't need a Gay Dirge for that.

>>118838354
Considering he still managed to spam weapons, project his shield and use a broken phantasm at the end UBW when on all intent and purpose he should have been DRY as fuck, it probably doesn't take much mana at all

>>118838354
>Each NP takes a large amount of magical energy to make.
Not when he has UBW up, that's only for projection.

>>118838322
Literally servant killing strong.

>>118838050
>Like any otaku can cook, work out everyday
Those are minor traits that barely have any impact on Shirou and are treated as just an accessory to his character.

>and "broken" emotionally like Shirou.
Oh, c'mon, do people actually believe this?

>>118838458
Yeah and it costs a lot of mana to use UBW, hence why Shirou needed to jackhammer Rin to prepare to fight Gil.

>>118838449
Gay dirge wouldn't do shit though.

>>118837527
>gilgamesh
>has B on strength endurance agility
>still get's bested by shirou in a sword fight

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>>118838269
>One by one
It took him few seconds to ready it agains Saber. And they fly slow enough for Shirou to jump in front Saber after they were shoot

>>118838507
Well yeah that's true, but a ShirouXRin combo should be enough to take down servants.

>>118838500
>Oh, c'mon, do people actually believe this?
Uh, that's kind of a large part of his characterization?

>>118838529
He wasn't trying because he's arrogant

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>>118838409
>without Takeuchi's brilliant Ideas TM wouldn't have come this far.
>Takeuchi's
>brilliant Ideas

>>118838553
>And they fly slow enough for Shirou to jump in front Saber after they were shoot
You could say the same for GoB in Fate you know.
That's just story convenience because Nasu doesn't know how write consistently

>>118838529
The swords make him stronger.

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>>118838529
He has lower stats in FSN. Maybe if he'd had higher than C agility he would've done better.

>>118838624
If he's so strong why does he die in every route?

>>118836026
I never got this opinion that Shirou was "shallow self-insert".
Isn't the whole point of UBW how utterly insane and inhuman he is? Hell, if anything, Shirou is one of my favourite protagonists. He masks as the usual stupid shounen protag, and then he shows his true colours, and suddenly you understand how self-consistent his character really is, with every single trait of his coming together. And all these stupid shounen progat tropes? They were really, genuinely justified.
He's a great and unique protagonist. Hell, you people love Archer, and they're pretty much the same guy from different times and perspectives!
There's a reason UBW is the best route. Part of it is that Shirou's character and his insanity is really worth looking into.
Why is everybody saying he is a bad character? Did you people not read the VN?

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>>118838335

Hrunting can reach Mach 10. I don't think his spears do anything to that.

>>118838415
Then why Shiki can fuck them up?
>Q.志貴と士郎の主人公コンビはどちらのほうが強いんですか？
純粋に力と力で戦った場合、直視の魔眼と魔術を用いて闘った場合はどちらが上か教えて下さい。（東京都／ぎった）
>A.異能力全開、という、終わった後にオーバーフローによる自滅を無視すれば志貴でしょうか。士郎がどれほど剣製したところで片っ端から“殺して”いきますから。士郎がエクスカリバーのような“魔力放出”が可能なら、また話は違ってくるのですが。

>>118838570
Yes, but a poorly done one.

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>>118838507
>Gilgamesh only uses mana to spawn the Gate of Babylon key
>CuCachoo's gay bulge barely uses mana
>Archer can literally arrow nuke anything not to mention his less mana efficient GoB ripoff
>Berserker gets 12 FUCKING RESURRECTS
>TWELVE
>FUCKING
>RESURRECTS
>AND invulnerability to anything less than A rank phantasm
>Saber just gets a shitty high rank phantasm and anti-castle laser blast
How the fuck did Saber even survive against those overpowered assholes?

>>118838667
Because he's a villain

>>118838529

That was when he was being summoned by Tokiomi. In the fifth war he's considerably weaker for multiple reasons; firstly, Kirei is a shit mage. Second, he's a true incarnation instead of a spirit. Third, no golden armor. Fourth, he just straight up didn't give a shit about the fight (until it was too late).

>>118838622
>arondight same sword as excalibur
>arondight not in the treasury
nope

>>118838687
fuck yourself

>>118838687
Why wouldn't he be able to?

>>118838593


It is sort of true that Nadu is very impressionable though.

Though I like the possibility of him going for more sci-fi. That G-Sakura idea in Capsule Servant was hilarious. You could make a mini - series of the adventures of Kaiser Loli-Rin and her alternate universe sister turned giant robot G-Sakura.

>>118838687
Nip nog to you too

>>118838269
>can't
Can. Fuck autocorrect.

>>118838354
Can't be that high when Archer without a Master and low on prana can throw multiple swordrains, deploy UBW, fight Shirou, survive his spiritual core being damaged, throw more swordrain, and even use Rho Aius.

>>118838449
Are you dumb? Most of the projections just got knocked off Archer's hands so he made new ones. Even then it's obvious Archer was fucking around considering he doesn't go through a single fucking copy in the rematch when Cu is going all out.

>>118836026
Is there anything worse than Urobutcher secondary fags?

>>118838687

What's your point? Shiki can probably kill any NP anyways, it is even stated in the whole Shirou vs Shiki thing that shiki would die afterwards because of comprehending those NPs.

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>>118838739

>>118838624
even a servant with D on all parameters, will still shit on shirou physically

>>118838688
Hah

>>118838687
>hurr look at me I can post untranslated moonrunes
>fucking plebs can't understand what I just pasted get good

>>118838688
Okay, opinions?

>>118838693
>Saber just gets a shitty high rank phantasm and anti-castle laser blast
Saber has 3 Noble Phantasms and a Dragon Core and a truly broken skill called Instinct (Rank A) that means she can kill most Servants without needing her NPs.

Why doesn't Shiki just kill the servants?

>>118838671
> Obvious shiroufag
> asking other people why they dislike shirou
You're one hell of a masochist, are you?

>>118838693
Plot armor and everyone else being retarded

>>118838671

>Did you people not read the VN?

He probably hasn't, which is why talking about fate on /a/ has been so shitty lately.

>>118838830
Archer also has eye of mind yet it doesn't let him asspull instakill attacks like Tsubame Gaeshi.

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>>118838593
Face it, Takeuchi's fetishes are an integral part of what makes TM stuff enjoyable.
Pic related.

>>118837301
Speaking of that. Doesn't Shirou have to focusing on the creation in order for it to stay manifested? Is there some way for him to permanently create something?

>>118838830
Instinct is such a cop out way to explain everything.

>>118838799
>not learning 中文 to understand your animes
haha get fucked idiot

>>118838593
Are you trying to shit on the maids?
Because if you are, I'm going to find you.
And I will make you change your mind.

>>118838869
Well all the shit he projected in his shed is still there, so I guess?

>>118838593
Yes? You think this shit would have sold as a Otome game? He is also the man responsible for the maids in Tsukihime.

>>118838839
I can get not liking him, but... "shallow self-insert"? Really?
Though I am probably a Shiroufag and GAR for Archer.

>>118838907
Why?

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>>118838593
It's true, Takeuchi's fetishes is the glue that holds TM together.

>>118838909
I don't have enough free time to be a complete weeb and learn language of a country I might never even fucking live to visit just to watch their cartoons.

>>118838921
Did he project that? I thought it was only reinforcement.

>>118838909
>learning Chinese at all

>>118838698
he was keeping up with saber. armor or no armor, his fighting skill shouldn't shit enough for shirou to win.

>>118838907
How is that a cop out? Actual fighters train a very long time to develop a natural instinct that can carry them to a kill.

>>118838865
Because Eye of the Mind is just super observational skills. It doesn't operate on an automatic level like Instinct does. Saber literally doesn't have to think to use Instinct, her body moves on its own. That's how she managed to keep up with Kuzuki for a bit, even though she was totally overwhelmed her body was able to instinctively evade some of his attacks.

>>118838907
Sure is arbitrary skepticism.

>>118838960
I'm pretty sure some of it was projected.
But only projected the outside, and everything inside was hollow, and Rin and Saber saw those things just lying around his shed and properly freaked the fuck out.

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>>118838869
Jewel Sword he created was a permanent creation.

>>118838928
>Yes? You think this shit would have sold as a Otome game?

75% of the fanbase is female despite Fate being a male-oriented eroge. There's a reason F/Z sold so well.

>>118838749
>Archer without a Master and low on prana can throw multiple swordrains, deploy UBW, fight Shirou, survive his spiritual core being damaged, throw more swordrain, and even use Rho Aius.
I'm pretty sure Nasu just wasn't really thinking about that. Isn't it specifically stated that projecting powerful NPs take a lot of mana?

>>118838746
I want a VN with a completely scifi world that doesn't try to be Fate/Sci-fi. That way I can judge how good he is at it.

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>>118839015
>>118839007
Man I don't fucking know.

>>118838921
the only thing he projected that stayed was that zelretch gem sword

>>118838997
By the way, I now wonder, if Archer had been caught up i a melee with Kuzuki, would he be able to evade his attacks?
Sorry if he already was in UBW, I played it a long time ago, so can't really remember if they ever fought.

I wonder one day we can all agree that damn near everything in this universe is killable in certain situations, but that doesn't take away that Servants aren't strong beings and that winning or losing can change between tactics used in a fight?

>>118838993
Just like sensing killing intent right?

>>118838727
What? I meant Shirou.

>>118839089
I recall archer directly tanking an attack from kuzuki when they finally fought, but it did nothing because kuzuki lost his reinforcement.

>>118838935
People will give you their reasons and no matter how reasonable they may sound you'll bend backwards trying to disprove them because you really like Shirou.
Again, you're quite the masochist asking people to tell you the reasons they don't like a character you obviously love. Discuss Shirou with other Shiroufags that agree with you and you'll save yourself a lot of frustration.

>>118839032
Back in 2004, I don't think so.

>>118839102
I don't know. It's just a VN/anime. I don't know what you're getting at.

>>118838741
Because they are crystallized mysteries, more powerfull than Servants themselves. I doubt Shiki can kill even one real NP and he can kill shitton of projected ones before his mind breake so they must be weaker concept

Why do you need your Servant to do anything when you can just hire normal humans like Kuzuki who are expendable but can already BTFO Saber in less than 20 seconds?

>>118839015
he had blue prints for that though

>>118839089
>if Archer had been caught up i a melee with Kuzuki, would he be able to evade his attacks?
Archer never fought Kuzuki up close, if he did he'd probably be wrecked hard (if he has the buffs, obviously). All archer would have to do is create distance and snipe though.

>>118839201
>normal humans like Kuzuki
Retard.

>>118839145
Nah, I probably just have problems with a "shallow self-insert" line.
The rest was really a tangent, more or less.
I can disagree with somebody and still respect their opinion. It's just I think that opinion was incredibly stupid.

>>118839201
All the kuzuki-like freaks in the world would be helpless against Cu or Gilgamesh.

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>>118839089
He disposed of him after killing Caster in UBW.

>>118839208
Maybe he needs blueprints from the creator of the thing he is gonna project and also he has to see them too. I don't get why Jewel Sword was permanent yet other shit he projected wasn't.

>>118838681
>mach 10.

Where do you even get that from?

>>118838869
No he doesn't his creations only disappear once he rejects them.

>>118839150
When exactly do you think they appeared, then? Even on /a/ I doubt half the people GAR for Archer were actually men.

>>118839110
arondight's the only NP that grants stat boost., and that's not inside gil's treasury which means no arondight for shirou to copy.

>>118839228
I was really more interested in whether his Eye of the Midn (True) would be unable to evade Snake, or not?
Probably not, but who knows.

>>118835314
because Fate/stay night is Naruto-tier trash for gay hipsters.

>>118839201
I'd just hire Kiri Nanaya and just sit back while I fuck my servant and win the Grail war then.

>>118839201
1. Kuzuki isn't a normal human, good luck finding another one like him and getting them to work with you.
2. Kuzuki wouldn't be able to do shit to a Servant without being buffed. Servants are impervious to mundane attacks. Even Bazette has rune enhancements, without which she couldn't so much as scratch a Servant.

>>118839311
The Sword was made with archer's arm, so it wasn't really one of Shirou's projections.

>>118838867
>>118838914
>>118838928
>>118838950
> I don't care about good writing, as long as it panders to my fetishes it's good
This is the cancer killing the industry.

>>118839323
Shirou traces the strength and skills of the wielders of the weapons he traces.

>>118839035
Only things we know for sure is that projection is more expensive than reinforcement, and that defensive armaments are more expensive. Even then, Shirou was able to project around a dozen swords when he only had enough juice left for one, and was able to keep up the fight with Archer for a while before he started getting thrashed due to his precision dropping.

>>118839228
He may actually be able to handle himself. The only reason Shirou was able to hold his own against Kuzuki was because Archer's swords would autopilot defend him and the thing that lets tge swords do that is the original user's skills ingrained in the projections. That means Emiya might know how to defend against snake.

>>118839145

I dunno man, people on here tend to let their negative biases against characters take them just as far as fans of certain characters do.

I still remember the "Imaginary Numbers is useless for anything not about spirits" that is for sure BS made due to bias against Sakura. Even when we got proof that this wasn't true we still get that. Or they bring up CCC and things become a mess.

>>118839352
>industry
>95% of the VN industry is pandering to fetishes
You fucking what?

>>118839321
Not sure but not that early, and why wouldn't they be? Archer is sexy as fuck.

>>118839329
Minds Eye is more about strategic observation. Like, it allows the user to take in all the details of the battlefield and make a rational evaluation of the situation and find a path to victory, if it exists. Basically it makes you the Comeback King, able to pull a strategy out of your ass to beat almost any opponent, and it does this by giving you Sherlock Holmesian perception.

>>118839352
How is pandering to fetishes bad?

Sunrise makes masterpiece after masterpiece by pandering.

>>118839382

You can't trace Arondight since it was made by fairies.

>>118835853
>Still using this outdated quote.
Do you guys not keep up with Nasu's constant retcons. pretty much anyone is able to keep up with servants now. Nasu just bullshits answers that its based on the masters ability that determines the fights.

>>118839422
Literally just as bad as Fujoshit.

>>118839424
No one is fucking talking about Arondight

>>118839424
He is talking about his normal projections. He can project Caliburn and without Arondight's ability it can still move at A strength speed, same applies to the other NPs he projects.

>>118839442
But Shirou is still shit so he can't

>>118839449
That's not a reason. That's just a buzzword with the word "literally".

Shirou using Archer's arm is no different than any of the dozens of Servants who through luck or chance just happened upon a high powered magic weapon in ancient times.

You guys probably believe guns kill people instead of people kill people too.

>>118838788
He gets Caught off guard, and is fighting defensively against shirou, the fight basically consists of Gil grabbing a weapon out of GOB and then having it knocked out of his hand (or broke) before he can get a swing in.

Shirou even mentions that if Gil manages to regain his composure then Shirous fucked.

>>118839102
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL3BF80736D5207A83&v=PJzxDq7m8Gw
This post.
I immediately sense immense killing intent coming from it.
The enmity is choking me. I can't breath.
I'm going to die.
I'm going to die.
I'm going to die.
I'm going to die.
Anonymous is going to die if I don't do something.
t. Nasu

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>>118839317
From TM Wiki.

>>118839526
Just saying pandering, even at the cost of the source is just as bad as Fujoshit.

Did...did buzzword, become a buzzword?

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>>118835314
>with no training

But that's wrong you retard

>>118839442

You do know that people we have seen beat Servants use up extraordinarily one time use items and risk their lives just to achieve them, and that the people noted to be able to keep up with Servants are people who stomp regular humans flat right? You know, like you'd have uncertain factors coming into a fight.

Try having Waver fight even a mid-tier Servant without a trump or assistance. I dare you to think of a scenario where that would work.

>>118839390
You should learn when people are trolling or baiting, though. Although I do admit some people are too biased, whether is about a character they really like or a character they really dislike.
But I guess it all comes down to the arguments given. It's much more reasonable someone that says "I dislike Shirou because he did this, because of that, because he thinks this way or he was written this way which I don't like because of these reasons" than "Shirou a shit because I say so". Then you know who you are dealing with.

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>>118839352
>industry
>implying

>>118839591
...Where did they get it from? I swear to god, if it's based on some OBD type bullshit.

>>118839591
TM wiki makes shit up all the time

>>118839614
>even at the cost of the source
What's so wrong about a female King Arthur?

>>118839549
Gil was actually getting swings in though. The very reason his swords kept breaking is because he kept being forced to break them along with the projections due to Shirou being right on top of his ass already swinging.

Find a heroic spirit for:

Saber of Japan
Archer of Japan
Lancer of Japan
Rider of Japan
Caster of Japan
Berserker of Japan
Assassin of Japan

Saber of Greece
Archer of Greece
Lancer of Greece
Rider of Greece
Caster of Greece
Berserker of Greece
Assassin of Greece

Saber of Western Europe
Archer of Western Europe
Lancer of Western Europe
Rider of Western Europe
Caster of Western Europe
Berserker of Western Europe
Assassin of Western Europe

The three teams all fight in a neutral place where they all receive every advantages they would receive in their native country.
Who wins?

>>118839507
>>118839382
NP doesn't make you strong its the NP that is strong. shirou can only get experience from the Np on how to use them, by overloading it he can use the special skills of their previous owners. GB, NNBW the like

>hire assassins and mercenaries like Kuzuki and Kiritsugu
>win the war while sitting on your ass because all the other Masters are only trained in magic wanking and not strategy, tactics, planning, and cheap underhanded tricks

>>118839747
Man, America has no good servants.

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>>118839658
>>118839681
Sadly there are no citations on the Hrunting page.

>>118839317
In F/HA.

>>118839352
The maids were the only thing saving Tsukihime from being a mediocre VN.
Nasu can thank Saberman for making his shit so popular.

>>118839767

Billy the Kid as Archer?

>>118839767
Andrew Jackson.
Maybe Davy Crockett, but that's it.
Andrew Jackson would do fine as Archer and Berserker, Davy Crockett could be an Archer or Assassin.

>>118839761
>NLBW

>>118839015
Thats because of the nature of the Gem sword, Common stuff he projects seems to stay in the world (Like the pots in his shed). But the more unique an item the more Gaia says that x can't exist and destroys it.

The gem sword can stay because constantly generates massive amounts of prauna so it can support its own existance. Or alternatively you could handwave it as a function of using that particular true magic.

>>118839761
>NP doesn't make you strong its the NP that is strong.
Yes I know, so?

>>118839811
Holy shit, I wasn't the only one who thought of that? My mind is blown man.

Although I thought I heard they weren't allowed to use guns or some shit of servants.

>>118839719
Everything.

>>118839747
What's the cutoff for "Western Europe"?

>>118839767
Apparently one of the Grand order ages is set in America, so i guess we'll find out.

>>118839761
His projected NPs swing themselves so pretty much the same shit. Even UFO thinks the same, as seen in the Kuzuki vs Shirou fight.

>>118839876
If they make Abraham Lincoln a servant I'm flipping tables.

>>118839766

>Not realizing the new generation is fizzling out on spell slinging and uses underhanded methods while still being freakishly strong in magic
>get rekt as you sip your wine by a kid using kung-fu or pro wrestling on your hired help

>>118839780
Going by that logic we should thank Kawahara for pandering to otaku since SAO is so popular.

>>118839856

Rider in Extra uses it

And cannons

>>118839867
Like? Besides the shitty romance in fate in doesn't do much "destroy" much else.

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>>118839836
True magic shenanigans then?

>>118839767
Washington/Teddy roosevelt as rider/ruler

>>118839766
The whole point of having an jobber assassin class is to trick people who think like that into participating.

>>118839970
Maybe it was that they couldn't be so close to modern times or some shit. Man I don't know, there's so many rules to remember.

>>118840001
What would their abilities even be?

>>118839856
Guns just made it harder if you would get in due to your gun skills. People being cynical fucks and no longer believing in epic heroes is what killed modern Heroic Spirits.

>>118839767
>not Arrow boy.

They pulled with all their might, but they could not move him. He told them to pull harder, and as they tugged at the string, his head was severed. It rolled out from under the robe, and the men put it back. Next the men lifted the robe up. Instead of the boy, a very old man was sitting in his place. They covered the old man with the robe and pulled it away again, this time revealing a pile of human bones with a skull. A third time they placed the robe over the bones and lifted it. Nothing at all was there. But when for a fourth time they spread the robe over the empty space and removed it, the wonderful boy sat in his place as if nothing had happened.

First he came as a Red Shield warrior in a headdress made out of buffalo skin. He had horns, a spear, and a red shield. And two buffalo tails tied to each arm. The second time he was a Coyote warrior, with his body painted black and yellow and with two eagle feathers sticking up on his head. The third time he appeared as a Dog Men warrior wearing a feathered headdress and carrying an eagle-bone whistle a rattle of buffalo hoof, and a bow and arrows. The fourth time he was a Hoof Rattle warrior. His body was painted, and he had a rattle to sing by and a spear about eight feet long, with a crook at one end and the shaft at the other end bent in a semicircle. The fifth time his body was painted white, and on his forehead he wore a white owl skin.

I can see him as a very tricky mage class.

>>118839958
But F/SN is good, unlike haremshit that is SAO.
That being said later arcs improved a little, with boypussy being less and less of a mary sue.

>>118839958
SAO isn't an eroge. There's no reason for TM not to pander with their eroge, that's the whole point of the genre.

>>118839851
>can still move at A strength speed
ah no, where d'you get this the anime?
>>118839894
VN has no mention of this, he simply swings NP normally with the exception of activated NP skills like NLBW

>>118839766
Magus were always more like a mass plot device than actual characters. That's why we get retards like Kayneth or Araya sticking to traditional magic to fight rather than study or assess their opponents and act according to their abilities. But Nasu prefers bestowing a simple "hurr hurr ALL magus are traditional and hate technology" than instead give each magus in the story its own character and way of fighting. If Kayneth had actually considered Kerry's use of weapons instead of magic their fights would have been a lot more different than "lol kerry owns everyone because magus too retarded".

Supposedly in Fate/SN characters like Rin also have other abilities like knowing kung-fu or whatever, but this is only brought once and as a plot device needed for Rin to outwit Caster in that one occasion, because it's never brought up again and it came out of nowhere.

>>118839747

>Saber of Japan
Miyamoto Musashi
>Archer of Japan
Heki Danjō Masatsugu or Minamoto no Tametomo
>Lancer of Japan
Honda Tadakatsu
>Rider of Japan
?
>Caster of Japan
Gorō Nyūdō Masamune
>Berserker of Japan
?
>Assassin of Japan
Hanzo Hattori

>Saber of Greece
Herakles
>Archer of Greece
Oddyseus
>Lancer of Greece
Achilles
>Rider of Greece
Iskandar
>Caster of Greece
Medea
>Berserker of Greece
?
>Assassin of Greece
Mithridates?


>Saber of Western Europe
Arthur
>Archer of Western Europe
Robin Hood? pretty shit, must find better
>Lancer of Western Europe
Saint Georges
>Rider of Western Europe
Roland
>Caster of Western Europe
Can't find anything interesting
>Berserker of Western Europe
same
>Assassin of Western Europe
Henri VIII

>>118839658
I'm not sure if it was ever directly stated as traveling at mach ten.

The narration in F/HA does note that the distance between Archer and Shirou is 4000 meters and that Hrunting reaches Shirou one second after he uses his Command Spell, though.

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>>118835314
Good mages aren't meant to be fighters. Shirou has spent his entire life training to be an Ally of Justice. While he's dismissive about its usefulness and poorly understands his magic he was accidentally compensating for his lack of natural talent, making artificial circuits. Not to mention he's been practicing archery and kendo most of his life. The former he was apparently unnaturally talented at. Last his Origin and Elemental Affinity as a mage are both very much oriented to combat. Which makes him being an archer still feel almost tagged on since we never see him interact with the Archery club beyond back story.

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>>118839747
>Archer of Japan
mofuggin Nasu no Yoichi
the trap version from Drifters is fine too

>>118840163
>ah no, where d'you get this the anime?
B rank Caliburn was able to cut berserker in the VN, and why wouldn't Berserker block a slow moving attack?

>>118840260
I've always wondered, what exactly is that type of arrow used for?

>>118839767
>America has no good servants.

Saber - ?
Archer - Elfego Baca
Lancer - ?
Rider - Patton
Caster - Some cabal of Freemasons like theres dozens of Hassans
Berserker - Audie Murphy
Assassin - Carlos Hathcock

Saber and Lancer gonna be hard unless you find some ancient Native American legends.

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>>118837830
>So the sword reacts to his attacks before my hands do.
>I swing to follow the sword, and as a result, I can block his attacks.
If sword attack when it feels it should then caliburn wouldn't lose to Gil "swordsmanship" as he suck at this.
Also It attacked Zerker because Shirou swing it, it just boosted his swing

I
WANT
TO
HAVE
SEX
WITH
RIN

>>118840232
>Caster of Western Europe
Merlin

>>118840321
Probably not dead.

>>118840246
>The narration in F/HA does note that the distance between Archer and Shirou is 4000 meters and that Hrunting reaches Shirou one second after he uses his Command Spell, though.
Exactly you do the math.

>>118840137
Anon, but Fate is also haremshit!

>>118840335
Wouldn't that not prevent him from being summoned since the throne of heroes exists outside time?

>>118840232
>Rider of Japan
Takeda Shingen?

>>118840261
>shirou's attack do shit
>berserker ignore's the fucker
you read the VN right?

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>>118840314
How badly?

>>118840232
>not going with broken as fuck Nobunaga for Archer
>not getting Abe no Seimei for Caster
>not dumping Ajax in Berserker
Come on, anon.

>>118836104
> then
>2014
>almost 2015
>not being able to speak basic English.

>>118840403
Nobunaga wasn't really a warrior though.

>>118840299

http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2078/

>Does the sword have a will of its own?
>The golden sword does not stop and, as if pulled toward it, slashes through the giant's arm.

Literally states that it moves on its own.

>>118840287
Massive bleeding, and cheaper to make than a regular broadhead, I think.

>>118840377
I did and it cut his arm. You need to re-read.

>>118840335
maybe morrigan, though I don't remember anything special on her other than being fucked by saber and having mordred a night later.

>>118840403
Ajax died like a bitch, Diomedes shits on all the other Greek heroes from the Trojan cycle.

>>118840436
He's still an actual Servant who autorapes two classes and anyone with divinity.

>>118840355
Shirou ends up with only 1 girl except in some good endings. UBW good comes to mind.

>>118840380
>socks
What?

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>>118840470

>>118840490
Wait what?

>>118840470
that's how he landed caliburn you bum

>>118835314
Nasu is a hack. Even Kubo is better than him.

>>118840063
You get that, /a/? The reason that we can't have Heroic Spirits in our life is because YOU don't believe in heroes and say FSN is bad, rejecting its heroes in the process! You bastards! Why can't you love it and buy all the merchandise? If you did, everybody of you would already have a personal Seiba!
Seriously though, I like the Nasuverse setting, and I get that the whole "modern times suck" thing is just one specific law the setting adheres to, but I can't help but sometimes be annoyed by it and wonder if Nasu genuinely thinks it's true. But most likely it's just me.

>>118840224
You don't understand anything about nasuverse magic.

>>118840509
>not wearing socks while you bathe

How else do you clean them and prevent your feet from getting cold?

>>118840232
>>118839747
Greece would buttfuck any team thrown at them. Though a European team made of beam spammers (Roland, Arthur, Lancelot etc) would be hard to deal with.

File: 831.jpg (2MB, 6051x4297px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 6051x4297px

>>118840380
Very badly. I'm afraid my meat has already expanded to its limits.

>>118840477
The fact he killed himself for going insane and killing cattle is precisely why I dumped him in Berserker though. Irony and all that. Besides he gets to have a round two versus Odysseus.

>>118840524
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Demon_Archer

>>118840576
Kubo is too predictable to be good.

>>118840355
Harem is not automatically bad. It's how it's done that decides things.
It's overplayed and a really safe choice, but it doesn't make it bad. Tropes aren't bad in general.