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DJT - Daily Japanese Thread #925

This is a blue board which means that it's for everybody (Safe For Work content only). If you see any adult content, please report it.

Thread replies: 85
Thread images: 2

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Guide (Start here): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G5C7fCe07CDzYalZYZObzxv_fhw7RUNsLHiMAY-t7FA

DJT Reading List (Add what you read here):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DkEYXMc9vKmrPFwVUrKdzT9UgDQV6JS0V7XhYuTCgto/edit?usp=sharing

Resources: http://pastebin.com/RTdXaGFC (embed) (embed) (mobile devices: http://pastebin.com/vsrmzgNd (embed) (embed))

Anki Startup Guide: http://pastebin.com/dDGCTkSC (embed) (embed)

Big manga list doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ltt5C88tgTyk5oFw5q8Iv9jVhNi6fyZXdhlFssvHFwE

Previous thread:
https://archive.moe/a/thread/118670620
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>(embed) (embed) (embed)

Oops.
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>>118726417
俺の辞書には毛唐という文字は存在しない
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>>118726543
「comfort woman」という言葉も日本語の辞書に存在しない。
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>>118726726
広辞苑の7版には是非とも載せてもらいたいな
>>
I know DJT doesn't care too much about pronunciation, but whenever I pronounce an r I always seem to exhale a little which makes it sound weird.

Does anyone know how I fix this?
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>>118727535
Do one of the following:
1: Practice
2: Practice with a japanese person
3: Practice with a japanese person trained in japanese teaching or speech therapy
>>
>>118727535
isn't that how sounds are made? by sending air through your larynx?
>>
>Understanding Takepan explain grammar
This is the life.
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差別用語なんて覚えなくていい
>>
>>118727926
お前は喋れなくていい
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>>118727926
>差別用語
例えば何?
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>>118727968
>お前は喋れなくていい
お前はしゃぶれなくていい
>>
わたしはニホンジンです
アルメニアからきました
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>>118728028
え?せっかく気持ちよくさせようと思ったのに
もったいない
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>>118727623
I'm pushing air past my tongue in the same way that you might when you pronounce an 'f' or 'th'. I'm consciously trying not to do it, but it still happens sometimes.
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>>118728051
わたしはにほんじんデース
すじょうもうまれもアメリカだけど、こころはにほんじんそのものデース
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Does someone have the archive of all the EDICT audio files? お願いしとるんやえ
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>>118728098
でーすって言う日本語人はいないでーす
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>>118728059
まさかさかさま
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>>118728098
あたいね、爾飜塵で御座んすよ
御前等、あたいの體の味ヲ喰ってみたいんやん?
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天に栄光 神にあれ
地には平和 人にあれ
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>>118728273
こちとら都合が悪いでありんす
気にせんでおくんなまし
>>
Well, I downloaded "500 Japanese Sentences" for fun. You get a word along with a sentence that uses that word. It's fun. It's kinda like working out a puzzle for those of us that haven't gotten very far in our Japanese yet.

The first "word" was いる. The example sentence was
今日私は一日中家にいる.
I'm pretty sure this is "Today I am staying home all day". I knew the first half without looking it up. Yay!


Still stuck on the second one. I'm not too proud to take hints on this. Still plugging away at trying to figure it out.

The "word" I'm working on is 事.

The example sentence is あなたの事を思い出しています

The problem is....わかりません

Google translate gives me "I am reminded that your". That's almost helpful. "I remember you" maybe? "I am reminded of you"? "I am remembering you?" "I have memories of you"? It's a puzzle.

Trying to parse the sentence confuses me more.
あなたの - I only know this as "Your". I think it might not mean that in this context.

事を - (こと を) - Can't figure this one out. What I got from jisho.org is at the bottom of this post. Too many meanings for me to choose. I have a feeling that を should help me narrow down the possible meanings from a grammatical standpoint, but I don't know enough grammar yet.

思い出 - (おもいで) - memories

しています - am doing
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>>118728322
我なむこれを聞きて憂にけり
かくこそあれめぞ常ならむ
時にやこれを感じまじ
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>>118728494
>The example sentence is あなたの事を思い出しています

私はあなたの事を思い出している最中です
Okay, let's compare the different in nuance.
Example:
あなたの事を思い返しています
あなたの事を振り返っています
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>>118728494
First of all, you would need more context if you wanted to properly translate most sentences into English. Secondly, if you don't understand what を does, then you should be studying grammar rather practicing grammar that you haven't learned yet.
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>>118728496
>憂にけり
>かくこそあれめぞ常ならむ
>感じまじ
wat
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>>118728767
>>憂にけり
(私はこれを聞いて)嘆いてしまった
>>かくこそあれめぞ常ならむ
こうであるが通常ではない
>>感じまじ
(いつかこれを)感じてしまうだろう
>>
Does anyone know of a stream site like fengyunzhibo or something like KeyHole? I want to watch popular anime channels like MBS and Tokyo MX but they're not available anymore.
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>>118728962
I'm not completely sure about any of this but:

What verb are you using for 憂? にけり is a verb suffix. I also think it's only really used for "story-like" speech, and if you're talking about your personal emotions you would use にし

>かくこそあれめぞ常ならむ
This one just doesn't make sense. Also, ならむ isn't negative なる, it's more like なるであろう


I think 感じまじ would mean "probably will NOT 感じる" since まじ is pretty much the opposite of べし. Also it goes after 終止形
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>>118729047
>keyhole

Ah, the memories of shitty video quality and artifacts.
>>
anki question

If I take n days to review ahead "X" deck, it creates a "Custom study session" deck, right? But after clearing it, will it (that is, the original deck) take effect on the next day of my study session?

That'd be convenient if, say, I have to review a deck that has 200 or so cards left to be reviewed everyday, and lightening that everyday leverage with a strong study session would be the ideal solution
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>>118728653
It's context based because they omit more and have a lot of omophones(not a problem when used with proper Kanji).

It doesn't mean you have to bitch about every single sentence being out of contest like DJT does. It's not like every person who speak English uses proper word order and always defines everything. Don't even get me started on "get", "make" and "go".

The only problem for proper translation without context is "take me to your leader"-tier Uke but the way you're talking about it would make even Slavshit languages untranslatable into English. You should be able to understand what people are talking about without a paragraph explaining it.
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>>118729938
I was only trying to be sure that he understood that the sentence wouldn't translate perfectly. That seemed perfectly reasonable considering how he obviously has only just started studying.

Obviously, you have to make a choice if you're translating something. You have to remove information that Japanese expresses easily but English doesn't, and you have to add information that English requires but Japanese doesn't express naturally.
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>>118728494
I don't want to offend you at all because you seem like a nice guy and you're actively trying to learn Japanese rather than just shitposting. If anything these threads could use more people like you who come off as genuinely enthusiastic.

However, I just want to point out that at the level you're at you would be much MUCH better off studying basic grammar than reading 500 sentences composed of grammar you don't understand.

Maybe spend a few weeks reading through Tae Kims guide before going back to the "500 sentences" pack.

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar

You may also want to download rikaisama if you don't already have it installed rather than relying on google translate.
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>>118729139
I don't agree with your opinion.

>What verb are you using for 憂? にけり is a verb suffix.
「に-・けり」 〔「けり」が過去の意を表す場合〕…てしまった。…てしまったそうだ。
Example:
「乾飯(かれいひ)の上に涙落として、ほとびにけり」
[訳] 乾飯(=干した飯)の上に涙をこぼして、(乾飯が)ふやけてしまった。
on the basis of facts that "にけり" means "てしまった", so "寝にけり" means "ねてしまった"
>http://kobun.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%AB%E3%81%91%E3%82%8A
>http://okwave.jp/qa/q2730101.html

>かくこそあれめぞ常ならむ
>This one just doesn't make sense. Also, ならむ isn't negative なる, it's more like なるであろう
"【ぞ】(強調) plus 「常なり」の未然形なら+【む】" works as "強い否定".
So, this sentence means 常ではない.
>http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q11108097351

>I think 感じまじ would mean "probably will NOT 感じる" since まじ is pretty much the opposite of べし.
Your interpretation is correct. But, in this context, "【にや(否定)】 plus 【まじ(negative)】" works akin to "positive". So, "時にやこれを感じまじ" means "時にはこれを感じないことはできないだろう". In other words, "いつかこれを感じてしまうだろう"
>http://www.hello-school.net/haroajapa009022.htm
>http://kobun.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%AB%E3%82%84

Because, I'm not "kobun" native, somewhat my interpretation is cheap. And, the sentence that I wrote earlier is the archaism, "擬古文".
http://kobun.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%AB%E3%82%84
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>>118730839
Okay thanks, most of that makes sense. You didn't respond to a couple things though:
>What verb are you using for 憂? にけり is a verb suffix.
>まじ goes after 終止形
Am I missing something here too?

>Because, I'm not "kobun" native, somewhat my interpretation is cheap. And, the sentence that I wrote earlier is the archaism, "擬古文".
Of course, I wouldn't expect anyone to speak fluent 古文. I just didn't understand most of it so I complained.
>>
Anyone know about some decks for japanese name readings?
Which one of these is best?
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1172747687
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2444351963
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/204920277
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>>118727535
You know, speaking of the "R" sound, why is it that at times the romanji has an "R" but it is pronounced as "L"
For example , something may be written as "RA" but pronounced as "LA"

I apologize if this is a stupid question, I don't frequent these threads.
>>
how do I into bungo
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>>118731378
The "R" sound is neither an "R" nor an "L". It's somewhere in between and it can actually fluctuate in one direction or the other depending on what comes before it.
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>>118731079
I apologize for the delay in replying.
>>What verb are you using for 憂? にけり is a verb suffix.
You're right. "心憂がりて、行かずなりにけり" is correct.
http://orange.zero.jp/teru.oak/gakusyu/ISE/TUTU/ugaru.html
So, there was something wrong with how I write.
[Correction] "我なむこれを聞きて、あな心憂やと思ひにけり"
It means 私はこれを聞いて、ああいやだと思ったのだ.
I should have written it in this way
http://kobun.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%82%E3%81%AA%E5%BF%83%E6%86%82

>>まじ goes after 終止形
No shit. I'm sorry for the mistake. "是は悪しき事なれば、感ずまじとは思ひても"
So, it should be "時にやこれを感ずまじ"
《接続》活用語の終止形に付く。ただし、ラ変型に活用する語には連体形に付く。
http://kobun.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%BE%E3%81%98

>Am I missing something here too?
I get the impression you’re better than me.
Thanks anyway!
>>
>>118726417
Question, how do you make compound sentances?

Like say for instace you have "here is the video" (ここにあるをビデオ i think), how would you turn that into "here is the video you asked for" and then how would you further turn that into "here is the video you asked for, I hope it is good enough.".?
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>>118732918
... Read Tae Kim.
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>>118732918
>"here is the video" (ここにあるをビデオ i think)
ここにビデオがある
>into "here is the video you asked for"
あなたが要求/求めてたビデオがここにあります
>into "here is the video you asked for, I hope it is good enough.".?
私が気に入ったあなたの求めてるビデオがここにあります。

Ok?
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>>118733305
It would probably be a good idea to also start suggesting people to watch the Visualizing Japanese Grammar series, alongside Tae Kim:

http://www.gwu.edu/~eall/vjg/vjghomepage/vjghome.htm

Tae Kim is good but he can't explain nuance for shit and the difference between a professional trained native explaining Japanese, with full text, animation and audio, is night and day.
>>
>>118733305
I think "imabi" is better than "Tae kim".

Also on; http://www.imabi.net/
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>>118733615
I don't.
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>>118733353
Could you explain to me the process of compounding the sentence|?
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>>118733668
Does it matter what you care? Could you expand on your reasoning as to why you don't?
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>>118733739
You should just read grammar guides. This is basic stuff covered in beginner guides. Don't asko for an anon to waste their time explaining core grammar concepts, when you should just read a guide.
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>>118733751
>Does it matter what you care?
Apparently it does if you're asking my reasons.
It's a combination of:
-The guy seems like a douche
-Far more information than is worth learning from guides. It would be a waste of time to go through the whole thing
-No attempt whatsoever to restrict the examples to simple vocabulary. I know babying too much is bad, but if you're just starting out it's better to see more basic words repeatedly.
-Occasional awful translations in example sentences (Tae Kim may also suffer from this)
Example

20. 皿は洗ったぶんだけきれいに見えるってわけじゃないよ。
It's not that the dishes look just as clean as they were washed.
>>
>>118731131
Due to the nature of 人名用漢字 or kanji which are sanctioned for use in Japanese names, I wouldn't use a premade deck but instead create a deck of surnames you are certain of the reading for people you want to remember.

There aren't any set rules for readings used in names, therefore learning out of any premade deck can be misleading.

Here are two basic articles, the first which covers common readings and the second which covers a frequency order of kanji used in names:

http://www.jref.com/culture-society/common-japanese-surnames/
http://www.jref.com/culture-society/common-japanese-surnames/

For learning common readings in surnames you are likely better off simply learning vocabulary as per normal and you will eventually pick up which readings are common for names.

First names you can't really learn outside of a case by case basis, due to the usage of 人名用漢字. While there maybe a lot of names with common readings, it isn't a wise idea to try to memorise these readings as a rule of thumb, because Japanese parents can give their kids kanji which don't follow those common readings and assign them unexpected readings.
>>
>>118733895
ok, thanks
>>
太液芙蓉未央柳も、げに通ひたりし容貌を、唐めいたる装ひはうるはしうこそありけめ、なつかしうらうたげなりしを思し出づるに、花鳥の色にも音にもよそふべき方ぞなき。

Is anyone here willing to explain this sentence for me?
>げに通ひたりし容貌を
I don't know how を works in this context.
>>
>>118733949
>Apparently it does if you're asking my reasons.
It was poorly phrased, my mistake. I was asking for your reasoning for the statement, as a simply stating of someone not liking something without any reasoning is pointless.

>-The guy seems like a douche
Seems more of a problem with the reader and their ego, but it is as valid as preference goes.

>-Far more information than is worth learning from guides. It would be a waste of time to go through the whole thing
If the information is accurate how is that a waste of time? Would you say something like the DoJG series are a "waste of time", due to their information density?

>-No attempt whatsoever to restrict the examples to simple vocabulary.
Compared to Tae Kim? Really?

>-Occasional awful translations in example sentences (Tae Kim may also suffer from this)
Tae Kim's guide suffers not only from this but his explanations are often obtuse.

They are fair criticisms, though. Most beginners likely aren't going to want to sit down and read through a lot of content, which is why a lot of learners opt for a quick and dirty online grammar guide instead of books just as All About Particles, Japanese The Manga Way, Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar. Maybe it isn't currently popular to suggest, but I think a beginner really ought take the time to go through a quick and dirty grammar guide geared for earlier output AND a more dense reading like imabi.net, or the higher quality professional publications previously mentioned. Tae Kim's grammar guide leaves a lot to be explained for a beginner, and it much more suited to being a supplementary guide for more experienced beginners who have already had a thorough introduction to the language.

Agree to disagree?
>>
>>118734036
These sights might help:
http://www.genji-monogatari.net/
http://ameblo.jp/aiaia18/entry-10477060177.html

The first has an annotation on that line:
過去の助動詞「し」は、帝が「長恨歌」の屏風絵の楊貴妃の顔形を見て、それが詩に「大液芙蓉未央柳」と歌われていたのによく似ていたというニュアンス。「を」は逆接の接続助詞。
>「を」は逆接の接続助詞。

Anyway you're further than me. I gotta stop being lazy
>>
>>118734205
>If the information is accurate how is that a waste of time?
Because a lot of stuff is picked up naturally, or picked up by looking the word up in a dictionary. I wouldn't say it's useless, but I would say it's the type of thing you would only want when you're already decent and are looking to fill in gaps.

>Would you say something like the DoJG series are a "waste of time", due to their information density?
Yeah, DOJG would also be terrible to try to read through, but at least unlike imabi the format is more suited to being a reference. I never needed it though.

>Compared to Tae Kim? Really?
It seems like he uses harder stuff to me. Tae Kim gives vocab lists. Imabi has stuff like 輪番 and 畦 in his examples

>Agree to disagree?
Sure why not.
>>
>>118734408
>Yeah, DOJG would also be terrible to try to read through
Not the other anon, but you're really missing out.
>I never needed it though.
That's because you've never read through it and don't know what you're missing out on. There is no better grammar source at least in English for Japanese grammar. If you ever have the time those entries are really worth a re-read through, regardless of your proficiency.
>>
>>118734219
Would you please accept my vehement protestations of gratitude?
You are nice guy. Thanx.
>>
What the fuck happened to yesterday's Tripfags?
>>
>>118734782
Offtopic.
>>
>>118734782
沙羅双樹の花の色、コテハンの理をあわはす
>>
>>118734948
あらはす*
>>
>>118734968
>あらはす*
Wut?
>>
>>118735102
表す
I mistyped it as あわはす
>>
>>118734219
>http://ameblo.jp/aiaia18/entry-10477060177.html
Oh god, what have you done to me? I'm going to be here forever.
>>
>>118734036
What the hell are you reading anon.
I didn't understand anything in that sentence.
>>
Attention everyone, you are all inferior to me. Starting today, for the next ten days, I am going to do 1,000 new cards of Core 10k. After this, I will then mock all of you for being stupid since I'll be fluent in Japanese and playing eroge like a champ.
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>>118736070
Tale of Genji, the big bad daddy of Classical Japanese.
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>>118736380
Why? Also, why ask questions about ancient Japanese on a 4chan thread instead of a Japanese community?
>>
>>118736493
This is the DJT thread, how is japanese in any form irrelevant?
>>
>>118736493
Not him but the Japanese communities I've seen are filled with weabos that think knowing kana is an accomplishment worth bragging about.
>>
お早うございます
>>
>>118736357
So awesome so pro we bow to you sensei
>>
>>118736622
>寝たこと
>ある
死んでいるとき眠れ
>>
>>118736581
Perhaps you should read more thoughtfully. I didn't say ancient Japanese questions were irrelevant. I just asked why he would ask in DJT, a thread filled primarily, if not only, with westerners, instead of a community with natives who would be far better equipped to answer the question.

I mean, would you go to 2ch's English board to ask about Shakespeare's grammar?
>>
>>118736810
He got an answer, and I discovered some amazing resources. I'd say his question was better than 99.9% of all posts for the past 10 threads.
>>
>>118736754
now now I was joking no need to be mean ^_^
>>
>>118736590
By Japanese communities I was being literal. Japanese websites with Japanese people on them. I don't think too many amatuer weeaboos can hang out and talk on jp websites.
>>
>>118736835
Perhaps you should read more thoughtfully. I'm not saying his post is unwelcome or fruitless. I am genuinely curious as to why he would think DJT is a good place to ask about and discuss ancient Japanese, as opposed to a Japanese website. If he can read Genji Monogatari, then he can communicate well enough with natives to learn from them.
>>
>>118736493
The Tale of Genji isn't "ancient", and it is very important in respect to the formation of modern Japanese.

Not everyone is as ignorant as you are; please stop projecting your standards and expect everyone else to be as clueless as you, next time.

>>118736911
>I am genuinely curious as to why he would think DJT is a good place to ask about and discuss ancient Japanese
1. It's not ancient, it's classical Japanese.
2. Classical Japanese has a lot of etymological value in respect to modern grammatical forms, which can benefit a learner who is interested in certain linguistic aspects of the language. It is educational and related to learning Japanese.
>>
>>118736993
Part two of your reply leads me to say, perhaps you should learn to read more thoughtfully.
>>
>>118736810
>I mean, would you go to 2ch's English board to ask about Shakespeare's grammar?
Shakespeare isn't renown for his impact on English grammar like the Tale of Genji is in respect to English grammar. If you are going to try and make a facetious argument, at least get a similar comparison.

Japanese highschool English classes often reference Shakespearean works.
Thread posts: 85
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