Can Soujuurou punch Shiki?
I went into Tsukihime for the retro 90s charm and I'm still here all these years later writing posts about it.
Did Japan finally get bored of Fate/stay night and go back to Tsukihime?
All this Turkeyhandle love is great, but I feel the need to point out that Ryougi a cute.
Well, look at what happened to the Fate franchise.
Now there's a lot of Gilgamesh/faceless men/Diarmuid/random animals fucking Seibah/Rin/Seibah clone porn nowadays. It just gets tiring to draw the same old shit for years.
What are your favorite non-h doujins and fanbooks?
Wait for 20 years then, faggot.
Just read the goddamn VN.
>waiting for the remake
See you next century
The game has five storylines split into two sides (Near and Far). There's a manga that focuses on one side (Near) but not the other (Far) if it piques your interest.
Do you think that she eventually just got really fed up with Kokutou and raped him?
It's legit. Thank you god
What is this amazing feeling?
How much power does your waifu have in comparison with Arc?
Is a joke. Shiki only fucks vampires, maids and demons.
Len is a Succubus. A demon, so no.
White Len is better anyway
Is anyone going to celebrate Arc's birthday this year too?
It doesn't. The question is loaded from the start into a can he vs would he be able to. Yes he can kill servants given the rules we know about his lines of death. Would he be able to do it in a real fight not likely. Would he be able to get the jump on one, like he did on Arcrueid yeah it could happen.
Would bizarre unbreakable fairy metals have a concept of death? It doesn't play by Earth rules, and last I checked things that dont play by earth rules dont have the same concept of death that things from earth do.
MEoDP either work or they don't. There is no middle ground. If Excalibur has no concept of death or has one that cannot be seen by Shiki, the MEoDP are no better than if they were not there in the first place.
I wasn't trying to say there was a middle ground. I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or missed the point so bad you are agreeing with me while thinking you are refuting me.
Nope he can preform the same jumpy bullshit Kirei does except that he can make it actually matte, to say nothing of Ryougi
People seriously don't get the power gap between Tsukihime and Fate.
Servants are pinatas made to be sacrifices for the ritual, the fact thtat some of them manage to put up a decent fight is entirerly due to them being the sorts of people who excel in harsh conditions.
Meanwhile the inhuman things Shiki fights don't have something as convenient as an ability to die. Most of them are simply completely immortal which makes them underestimate him until it's too late.
That is the reason why he can't beat bad Servants like Assasin but would wreck the likes of Gilgamesh and Berserker.
Sometimes you just need to be creative
Yeah but ORT wouldn't have lines of death because it does not have a Gaian concept of death, Excalibur is not from earth either so would it have a gaian concept of death? Thats what I am trying to figure out.
Maybe in the fairy realm but once it enters the earth realm i think it does have a death concept. Its all hypothetical obviously there would never be a fight between the two.
even though Shiki would rape Saber
Wasn't it made with metal from the same fairy world that Avalon takes you to? If its made by people not from this dimension with materials that dont exist outside of that dimension then its not really from earth.
You mean the Arc that has less than a tenth of her true strength unlocked?
You do realize that there are plenty of things that the MEoDP can't kill, simply because the strain would kill Shiki? And things with alien concepts of death (such as Types) are entirely immune to the effects of the MEoDP.
But if we take headache away there would be nothing he can't kill.
Her ability to see future is so useful...
Q: In the other Type-Moon works, who else besides Arc can fight against Servants?
A: If we're working on the condition of one on one, with an extremely average Noble Phantasm. Generally most of the 27 Ancestors, Kishima Kouma, Aozaki Aoko.
If it's just a defensive fight, but would still be a fight, then Ciel. Shiki (Rakkyo), Shiki (Tsukihime) are no match for Servants....but Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality) might be able to go as far as the Ciel class.
Comptiq 2005-09 issue - Fate Dojo Q & A
Kuzuki when enhanced by Caster is a far superior combatant to any Shiki. He would beat Shikis, Kotomine, Bazett, Kiritsugu, any human opponent would be destroyed against him.
I find it really strange how everyone thinks he's some normal guy when he's a supernatural trained assassin from birth being supported by a demigodess sorcerer-level mage from the age of the gods.
A sad thing about Kuzuki is that he has no talent as a Magus even though his perfect breathing technique is implied to be of the kind that would allow a capable mage to easily create miracles without using vocal spells.
I wouldn't. It might result in a cross kill in the best case scenario, but Kiri would get his skull caved in. He's not on the level of heroes and no amount of instinct can deal with the snake technique so even the psychic heritage of the Nanayas accomplishes nothing.
Then anyone using Kuzuki vs. Saber as an example that "unenhanced human should compare to servants" is simply using a flawed comparison. Kuzuki was reinforced beyond belief against Saber.
Don't know, Kiri instinct are out of this world
Why is Akiha such perfection?
Instinct on the level of precognition doesn't tell you shit about the snake. It's completely unintuitive. No amount of skill enables avoiding it, only experience. It is a perfect assassination technique.
>but Kiri would get his skull caved in.
Kiri thought Kouma's speed was "nothing" after he got used to it AFTER six years of retirement. And Kouma can fight Servants on equal terms.
He almost killed Kouma with one blow.
Unlikely. Kuzuki would probably be far too normal in appearance to him. He doesn't think or act like a nonhuman until his steel-hard fists are punching you in the back of the skull from in front of you.
He is a very, very good assassin, and the best assassin is the one you never see coming.
Also he caught Excalibur while it was invisible, he probably can catch a dagger. But that's probably thanks to reinforcement. It's unclear what it does to his reaction times.
>needing a good pair of tits and ass
No wonder they aren't labeled as perfection.
Their eyes couldn't follow his hands to kill them before they land.
No, Kiri thought Kouma's speed was something he could deal with because Kouma had a massive blind spot that Kiri deliberately created many years earlier. Without that blind spot, Kiri would have been flattened instantly. It's pretty clear.
And with Caster's reinforcement, Kuzuki could easily deal with Kouma too.
>He doesn't think or act like a nonhuman until his steel-hard fists are punching you in the back of the skull from in front of you.
Kiri is also an assassin. Who almost killed someone that can fight Servants. Who he thought of as slow once he got used to it.
He knew Kouma was dangerous the moment he saw him.
>No, Kiri thought Kouma's speed was something he could deal
It literally says in the VN that Kiri thought Kouma's speed was nothing when he got used to it. I am almost taking the line verbatim here.
Jougan analyzes the nature of their thoughts to determine nonhumans and human hybrids and Kouma stands out as a human hybrid who stands on the precipice of being nonhuman.
Kuzuki has nothing like that. Mentally, he's like a tool who has attained a tiny bit of independent thought, but he's not nonhuman.
As long as the bottom is somewhat plump DFC is acceptable and sometimes even charming.
It's all about the hips and legs.
You're interpreting it really strangely. "Nothing" means "it is something that can be dealt with", not "hurr durr I'm even faster" or anything. It's that he can compensate for the inhuman speed.
Kind of meaningless as Kuzuki is capable of striking people even faster than he is.
Jougan are different. What Kiri sees are emotions and thoughts. It doesn't matter if you're human or not. It's the same way with Shiki's jougan, where he can see that which cannot normally be seen.
Nothing means the speed is nothing special to him. You're adding shit to the entire equation.
>faster than he is
>Kiri thought nothing of Kouma's speed
>Kouma can fight Servants on an equal footing
So you're saying he's normally as fast as a servant? Okay, that makes it even worse. I mean, he did land a blow on Archer after losing all his enhancements, making him even more terrifying.
p.s. please cite the source where only his fists are enchanted, as it's nowhere in the VN.
I'm saying there's nothing notable about Kuzuki's thoughts that would make him immediately dangerous. Maybe his emotions which are flat like a machine's, but that wouldn't make him look anything like a nonhuman super-threat.
Even so Kiri could only fight against Kouma due to his blind spot. Without that, he would have lost without even landing a hit.
As a point of reference, by the way, Kouma can fight mid-level servants, and Kuzuki nearly took out a top-level one. And Kiri only nearly took out Kouma. That's about three layers of difference between comparison.
Nowhere really, it's just long skirts leave things up to the imagination. That's why they're great.
>Even so Kiri could only fight against Kouma due to his blind spot.
That was never said nor implied in the fight. Which I just rewatched earlier.
While Kiri did take advantage of the blindspot, the final blow was directed at the non-blindspot area of the neck.
And Kiri still said that the speed was nothing after getting used to it.
Reread Red Demon God, you twits.
>Because Nanaya Kiri kept on dodging to the left side, Kishima Kouma couldn't follow his target that slipped to the right side.
>This is an absolute blind spot for him who has had his right eye crushed.
>The reason he poked the child's eye the moment he saw him.
>This is the reason.
>He, at the time.
>Sensed that he wouldn't be able to defeat the monster called Kishima Kouma, and just this once in his life, prepared a chance to win out of a personal emotion.
>In the distant future. If there were a time when he had to fight this monster, he'd be able to end it with this one blow.
We need more longskirts heroines!
Read the entire fight. Kiri was hitting the blindside part of Kouma's neck, which is why he always kept moving to his (Kiri's) left, which is Kouma's blindspot (his right eye was crushed). He kept hitting the left (to him) side of Kouma's neck.
The final blow was on the right side (to Kiri) of Kouma's neck, which was on Kouma's non-blindspot.
Read the entire fight properly.
Yeah, in other words, he could accomplish jack shit and would have gotten slain instantly without the blind spot.
Because guess what happened when he made that final hit outside the blind spot?
HE FUCKING GOT SLAIN INSTANTLY.
That might have been a neat hit, that actually managed to damage Kouma, but he literally did not last a single second after landing it.
No she just couldn't go around excaliblasting willy nilly. She expends almost no mana during a normal hand to hand fight
because she is still aliveHer stats may be lowered but by no means are her stats considered low or even average despite having a shit master.
He'd land A hit.
A single hit.
That's about it. He had to maximize his chances so that one actual hit would eliminate his target. Which he cannot actually do for servant level foes.
Thus, he made the blindspot so he could repeatedly weaken Kouma's other side to make his one real hit deal even more damage.
And in the end? It didn't actually pay off. I think a key point you people are missing is that he failed to kill Kouma. His weapon barely pierced his skin.
To someone without a blind spot, he'd need to get that hit in and make it perfectly lethal without any amount of wearing down. Also preventing any counterattacks.
Let's be fair to Kiri. Had it been a strike like what he did in around 40 attempts on the other side of Kouma's neck, he likely would have never gotten hit.
And Kiri didn't actually start going to Kouma's left side until after he got used to Kouma's speed. He actually parried and countered Kouma's attacks by striking Kouma's elbows and arms. He would still be in Kouma's line of sight during those first few exchanges.
>His weapon barely pierced his skin.
>literally after kiri got killed, the vn says had kiri pushed a little bit further, kouma's head would have fallen off
The entire fight was not fought in Kouma's blindspot.
This still seems off the major point. You can't dodge Kuzuki's attacks, as it's fundamentally impossible. Allowing him to attack at all is a poor strategy that would result in total failure for an opponent with human level defenses.
And getting in one attack on him is still difficult. He managed to catch an invisible sword swung by the king of knights, for fuck's sake.
Kiri is awesome, but Kuzuki is utterly ridiculous.
Except that's purely as a matter of avoidance and a cool attitude. Remember that Kouma killed him with two blows. (one blow, really, as crushing his skull was completely unnecessary after bisecting him)
Also, he lost that fight.
When bullshit hax meets bullshit hax, the fights can swing however the hell Nasu wants them to.
You're never gonna get more precise answers than that, so don't fight too much about powerlevels.
The ONLY reason why Kouma was not dead was because Kiri only used a steel drumstick. Had Kiri had a Noble Phantasm, or, MEoDP, Kouma would not have been able to touch Kiri at all.
That is the only fighting Kouma we really know. Real Melty Blood Kouma is a roving mountain hermit.
Only one you need to care about.
>The ONLY reason why Kouma was not dead was because Kiri only used a steel drumstick. Had Kiri had a Noble Phantasm, or, MEoDP, Kouma would not have been able to touch Kiri at all.
Too bad he doesn't have those and it's still irrelevant because Kuzuki went toe to toe with an actual heroic spirit (not somebody compared to heroic spirits) while not only not being touched but catching her invisible weapon, thrashing her, and in one bad end immediately slaughtering her masters.
This all being against a warrior with A rank instinct and etc. etc. You should get the point that Kuzuki is idiotically good for a human, and can't be compared against human opponents.
In a comparison against the two, I see no reason Kuzuki would be harder pressed to catch a steel drumstick than he would to catch an INVISIBLE SWORD SWUNG BY THE KING OF KNIGHTS.
Here comes the Bananaya smoothie
Kuzuki went toe to toe with a Servant who was gibbed with prana and stats issues.
Kouma can fight Servants on equal footing. It doesn't matter that he's not a Servant.
Kiri thought Kouma's speed was nothing special, and he directly dodged Kouma's attacks while he was under Kouma's non-blindside line of sight.
And even with only one eye, Kouma can match up to Servants well.
And the ONLY reason Kouma is not dead is because Kiri didn't have an NP or MEoDP.
That is exactly the same reason why Kuzuki dies so ingloriously later when he didn't have fist reinforcement. A Servant would just let Kuzuki hit them and it would do no damage.
Even when Saber is gibbed by Shirou, she's still better than most servants. Kuzuki died because he has no counter against Archer's swordspam for obvious reasons. His lack of fist reinforcement had nothing to do with it.
Kuzuki could wreck any other human in a fistfight on the first encounter because of his snake style.
Shiki is pretty much an amalgam of Ryougi Shiki and Mikiya Kokutou, the female and male leads of Kara no Kyoukai.
Akiha is an expy of Kokutou's little sister Azaka. The only big difference between them is the nature of their otherwise similar powers and that Azaka is Kokutou's real blood-related sister.
Considering Kiri and the Nanaya have obscenely high precognition ability and Kiri is faster than someone who can fight Servants and all he'd be facing are fists, the chances of him dying aren't really that great either.
He also has his pure eyes so he can see shit before they're coming. Kiri is not simply a human.
He's the strongest Nanaya (aside from Shiki) from a family of purebred warriors stuck on a mountain (Soujuurou power up) that have separated themselves from humanity (not as mongrelized) from the Heian Era, which is about 200-300 years after Arturia lived (which was still an age of heroes).
And they fought demon hybrids that were purer for a living.
Precognition means jack shit against Kuzuki, as does all instinct and technique. He is an assassin that cannot be prepared against. Even seeing it coming is meaningless, you have to literally see it executed to have any chance at all.
And Kuzuki is also a purebred mountain warrior for what it's worth.
For normal human yes , for guys from Nanaya clan it would barely sting
Saber has precognition too and couldn't do jackshit against Kuzuki. Kuzuki's "weakness" is that he's a one-trick pony. As long as it's their first encounter, Kuzuki would easily beat Kiri, but afterwards Kiri would win.
Shiki's body doesn't degrade in quality and in any case it can't really be compared as to which one hits harder? Also he wasn't being hit in the skull. Even so, he was unable to fight back after being hit.
Yeah, you know, nearly being knocked out is "barely stinging". He's resilient, but he's not standing right back up from it.
He flew from main street to back alley, 15 fucking meters in the air from the punch and he got only bruises.
People love Fate/Zero because it doesn't suffer from this trend.
It might as well be otherwise Gae Bolg would have killed her. But the point is that precognition means nothing against the snake technique. Nasu said that even Bazett would lose to Kuzuki on their first fight.
>Shiki's body doesn't degrade in quality
Well, it kinda degrades. Shiki's body couldn't stand doing Nanaya bullshit a couple of times. But this was after 8 years of zero training.
Kiri was retired for 6 years before fighting Kouma. And I'm pretty sure that Shiki is able to tank those hits because he's a Nanaya.
Nasu's Iskander wasn't too bad.
First he would need to survive Kiri first attack. Nanayas taijutsu is also freaking crazy
While being jacked up on enchantments, and having fists that could barehand block Invisible Airs atom thin swirming chainsaw edges.
Kiri without enchantments might kill Nayana. But not if Nayana is ready to kill supernatural stuff.
Do you mean Kuzuki? That's not relevant anyway; his fists were strengthened, but all of the technique and speed were his own. The biggest point you have for Kiri so far is his insane speed which is true, but Kuzuki has it too. He completely outspeeds Saber who, even when gimped by Shirou, is well above most servants.
Kuzuki doesn't completely outspeed Saber. He caught Saber by surprise and just fucked her. Kiri was the one taken by surprise by Servant-level speed and he thought it was nothing after a few exchanges. Six years from retirement.
>speed were his own
Speed and strength also comes from Caster's strengthening. only Snake is his
>Someone asked earlier if Shiki could destroy Caliburn with MEoDP.
The actual noble phantasm would probably make his head explode. Looking at the death of an ancient mystery is something far beyond Tohno Shiki's understanding.
Now, Shirou's projections..
>What interests me more is if Shiki destroys one of Emiya's imagined weapons, can he just make another one like usual?
Projections are probably the easiest thing to cut for Shiki. They are fragile non-existences already on the brink of death. They're probably more lines than matter, if they're not one gigantic black spot to his vision. Every single place of a projection is a place weak to death: damage ANYWHERE destroys them.
However, Shirou could definitely just make another. He does not make the real existence in the first place, and so Shiki cannot kill the real existence. He is a factory that produces imitations, and he makes them as fast as he can think of them.
... but yeah in a fight between the two, Shiki would just kill weapon after weapon until Shirou's out of mana.
I remember when /a/ wouldn't tolerate a single post about vns. This is why /jp/ was made. Now /a/ wants to talk all about tsukihime, which was hot shit when it was ousted to /jp/, and now /jp/ won't tolerate talking about such shitty old vns.
It's a vicious cycle.
Except it's still martial arts. If he was that much stronger than them he should still win. Also it was stated in F/sn that in pure physical strength he's not much stronger than Shirou
The anime showed pretty clearly that he is reinforced in both strength and speed as he moves.
>Block a chainsaw sword - leg and elbow are reinforced
>Run behind the opponent - entire body is sped up
>Punch - Arms are strengthened
That doesn't matter. All the VN states is that Kuzuki's fists are strengthened and nothing else.
Well sure. Kuzuki's "strength" isn't his physical strength. It's that he's completely unpredictable which inherently involves speed.
>That doesn't matter. All the VN states is that Kuzuki's fists are strengthened and nothing else
>The shock passes through her as a shudder.
>Yes. A hand is originally something used to grab, not punch.
>It must be supported by Caster's magic as the enemy's fingers easily squeeze off her neck…!
Even gimped, Saber is far faster than anything Kirei or Bazett could deal with. Even if Kuzuki only knew how to punch in a single way, they would not be able to change how the battle would go, simply from that difference in ability.