In the garden of Eden... I've heard different variations about this...did the serpent trick eve? Or did it tell her the truth? Did Adam and Eve do what "God" knew they would? Discuss lol
If the true almighty God created A&E he would know the future and had created us without a mind, so we never could get trapped in illusions. But this God could be a genetics doctor who crossed his genes with ape genes.
Remember our environment is a hazard for outerworldy creatures because of the bacteria, viruses, Co2 levels, radiation levels etc.
So, imo the garden truely existed and human 1.0 was extinct or whipped out.
The tree of knowledge symbolizes our brain. The apple is our mind and the snake is the lie or illusion in general.
Our 'father' warned us never to use our mind, made thing up or to lie or we would lose the state of heaven and the connection to everything.
The snake is also a the kundalini energy which powers up our brain /mind.
I just find it funny with this whole fate vs destiny concept. As we all know, God created each being with a certain purpose; a path in which you are to take. Your destiny. However, you can change it by the different choices you make. So in theory, Lucifer was destined to fall. Lucifer was destined to provide Eve with the apple or knowledge and truth. So to answer you question, yes. I believe God knew Eve would take the bait. But like I said before, you change your path by making certain decisions... And he was hoping Eve rejected the fruit of knowledge. Rejected Temptation.
>did the serpent trick eve?
3 it is only about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden that God said, ‘You shall not eat it or even touch it, or else you will die.’” 4 But the snake said to the woman: “You certainly will not die!
Yes, he absolutely did.
> And he was hoping Eve rejected th..
If God had to hope, he would be very lousy with his creation. He gave immortality to his creation and free will and infinity is worst curse of all and the second curse is hope. The Paradise you describe could only be hell and he would be the devil. Never create something that only can suffer, we have more ethics today as the god you describe. Sorry
Goes like this:
>God makes a special garden
>puts two humans in it
>for some reason, puts a magic tree in it
>lies to the humans and says you'll die if you eat the fruit
>"fair enough, more than enough fruit everywhere else"
>God lets his most tricksy servant go down
>Satan as a snake talks to nai-Eve
>tells Eve that she won't die if she eats it, she will just have knowledge of good and evil
>Eve, not having knowledge of good and evil, doesn't know it would be bad to disobey God
>"holy shit balls, this is amaze"
>Eve gets Adam to eat the fruit
>"oh fuck, is that what I think it is?"
>both are now aware they were just a perv game for God
>God, who apparently knows everything and is everywhere, let's this happen
>gets pissed when it happens, even though he set the whole thing up
>"WELL FUCK YOU TWO, I'M CURSING YOU WITH MORTALITY, SO YEAH YOU WILL DIE NOW BECAUSE I'M A COCK NUGGET!"
>Adam and Eve are boned
>start an incest-train and populate the Earth
>here's free will
> jk u have to do what i say or i damn you
God giving free will is a myth. His only accepted will is for you to serve him unconditionally. True free will would be void of any consequences for your will.
Christians may reply with whatever convoluted shit they can, but in the end, there is no room for free will in Christianity. There's not much choice: you either 'choose' God or eternal suffering. Not much of a choice...
You could be a peaceful motherfucker like ghandi, but according to christians you are still going to hell because you didnt will yourself to choose their christian god.
>You have free will, but if you dont live exactly how i want you to i am going to damn you to hell for eternity.
>You could be a peaceful motherfucker like ghandi, but according to christians you are still going to hell because you didnt will yourself to choose their christian god.
>Protestants represent the entirety of Christianity
They aren't even the majority.
>True free will would be void of any consequences for your will
We don't have to fear and consequences, because the creator forgot to give us to see the future and made us blind to see the consequences of our actions and he forgot to gave us all the knowledge of good and bad, so we have to do bad to know what is good.
Let's be realistic, the knowledge is there, the Indian part of the story is good but the evangelists blended to much into the new testament, God and his actions are put evil!
I can't take Christianity seriously.
What was the point in creating? As a perfect, ideal, beingg, why would God feel the need to create us? Any answer such as "for company" is one that goes against all Christian dogma, because - being perfect - He would not benefit from anyone's company, and - being eternal - He would have had as much time before him as behind him, meaning that something had somehow prompted him to make humans at an arbitrary point, which is also anathema in Christian thought, for God cannot change his mind, since, being perfect, He is stillness, and does not 'come to' realizations or develop in terms of personality or thought, already being the nexus.
The very fact that one would feel compelled to create - and hence, express something like 'needs' or 'desires' - means God is not perfect, and not being perfect, not worthy of worship.
And why would God desire that? One of the attributes of him is omniscience: perfect knowledge of all things that could be.
In theory, His omniscience would ensure He already knows everything, every detail and minutae that accompanies every single 'thing' in all would-be existence(s). Knowing 'everything' that could be created so perfectly, what need would be there to actually go and make it 'real', since his omniscience would ensure the thoughts and knowledge (projections) in his mind of things-that-might-be would be just the same as 'reality', if he chose to create it.
God is perfect and he is searching for imperfection! God, not the evil one in the Bible, is literally everything, because he is consciousness. He created the universe and all things which are consciousness (God) in a different density. Our purpose is to observe his creation which is God with the mission to search for imperfection which can only be another consciousness and another God or goddess, God in his almighty perfection is just AL(L)ONE!
I've had enough of Christfags. I remember 4chan was never exactly a place for religious fucks - most people were agnostic/atheist, in spite of the generally centre-right attitude. Now it's full of Christcucks.
>since his omniscience would ensure the thoughts and knowledge (projections) in his mind of things-that-might-be would be just the same as 'reality'
That's literally your opinion.
This is what I thought as well, maybe god isnt as infinite as we all like to think, maybe he created us because he knew we would one day reach the point in which we finally start to edit and evolve of own DNA, and if scientists are right the universe is collapsing back on itself, maybe one super form of human will one day be the next god and recreate the big bang again and restart the cycle? talking out of my ass, but everything is a theory until we die.
Having omniscience means being all-knowing. That doesn't mean that the knowledge is the exact same as reality. That aspect is not a part of the definition, and is your opinion.
>Belief system detailing the creation of the world, supernatural powers, demons and angels, etc
>everything is a theory until we die.
This is your theory do you really think we will be able to understand everything even in the afterlife, if we could, we had the garden of eden paradox. We die stupid and we will reborn stupid and this is science.
The only way I can reconcile a perfect being and our 'existence' is that what I said is true: that God indeed never created the universe - having no need or desire to -, and as we are right now, we are merely 'projections' (his thoughts, knowledge) of his omnipotence in his head, if he had created the universe. And there exist countless others 'projections', which are akin to human fantasies or day-dreams, except on a grander scale.
Other than that, I can't accept that a perfect deity created anything. Perhaps a deity did create the universe, but then it is not perfect one that did, simply because all motion (action) is the result of something (and God the perfect is unmoved): the perfect God is stillness and contemplation and self-contained - the Monad or the Alien God of Gnosticism and Marcionism.
having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.
"she strove to be the perfect wife"
synonyms: ideal, model, without fault, faultless, flawless, consummate, quintessential, exemplary, best, ultimate, copybook; More
absolute; complete (used for emphasis).
"a perfect stranger"
synonyms: absolute, complete, total, real, out-and-out, thorough, thoroughgoing, downright, utter, sheer, arrant, unmitigated, unqualified, veritable, in every respect, unalloyed
"she felt like a perfect idiot"
Once again, your opinion. Before you try to say the second definition is what you're saying, reread it and realize that no, it isn't.
"knowledge", as in tree of knowledge, implies you are on your own to make mistakes. It was a name given to the tree after by who was telling the story. (it has nothing to do with an intrinsic characteristic of it or it's fruit).
When they ate the apple what's in question is not what the apple was, nor did it actually give them super powers - it's the fact that they doubted gods judgement, they didn't trust him, they thought god didnt knew better what was good for them. They had grown up. There's plenty of shit out there in nature you shouldn't eat even if it doesn't kill you.
Part of the lesson in any religion is that you're suppose to trust the divinity, not question its judgement or try to understand what he means or wants, who the fuck do you think you are: A monkey or dust, you will never understand god or his thoughts doesn't matter how much you meditate or argue or how many books and commentaries you spend your life writting - you don't have the hard drive to run that exe. It's like installing win 10 on a toaster... More, on a sock.
So god went like: "Know what fuck you then, you're a creation of that dumb demiurge anyway." So HE left the garden.
The "snake" didn't trick them cause the "snake" doesn't exist: It's a metaphor for men's distrust in god and will for independence, crawling from men's rotten core (like courage would be a lion or such) coming to the surface showing what a fuck up he is on the first trial he comes across.
>getting that mad because a human being displayed the a common human trait: curiosity
If anything, you're digging your grave. What makes you think I - or anyone - wants to worship a god who gets mad that humans exhibiting the behaviour that makes them human?
Thankfully, Christianity isn't real.
The nephilim probably wouldn't have been creating if Eve did not listen to the serpent.
The allegory about this story is about falling out of perfection and becoming imperfect by disobeying God.
> Thankfully, Christianity isn't real
The universe is as real as Christianity. Or do you actually believe that the universe looks like this as you see it with your eyes?
Do you believe that radiation or ultraviolet exists?
How would you know? Or do you know anything?
Christianity exists like science.
And I don't have to believe anything.
A current version of the garden eden. I wonder how long it takes to finally enlighten one?
Eve was not born pure as Adam was
The snake never spoke; the account in Genesis includes details from Eve's eyewitness account integrated into the main narrative. She just did whatever she wanted and made up something about a snake to excuse herself from being responsible for whatever consequences it could have.
God didn't want to allow humans to have free will because God knew that being exposed to humans like that would render God inert, God would himself be corrupted, and he was. He allowed it to happen because humans needed to be free to find their own destiny, and God cared about that concept enough to allow humans to corrupt the perfection that God had existed as. God is the reflection of the universe, before disorder was introduced he was an entity of perfect order. Traces of whatever this event was is shown in the imbalance in cosmic background radiation, and is tied to the reason for the irregularity in the universe/the imbalance of matter/antimatter.
>Praise my name! Witness, bathed in the glory of my countenance! Praise my name!
It tasted like a teen's first puff of a joint. Like the philosopher Peter Steele said once, freedom is not doing whatever the hell we want all the time; is knowing that there are limits and rules, and doing the most we can inside them.
"It's alot easier to break rules, than to follow them." - And as with most easy things, we confer no value to them.
What's the name of the first wife of Adam? The goddess?
Don't eat apple or you fall asleep!
Time to wake up?
It's getting paranormal!
Does movies have truth in it?
Where does the creativity come from?
OK, I stop but my conclusion :
The is something with apples, something real!
The Jews celebrates apples.
I found no pic of the Pope with an apple.
Eat apple =?
Don't worry this thread won't get it to the archive!
Please don't get upset!
Kids getting programmed to hate apples?
I know some folks interpret it as God speaking of a sort of spiritual transfiguration or devolution rather than the serpent's more gross and bodily death. Perhaps the legless serpent, destined to be lowest among animals, is more preoccupied with the physical, the material, and the corporeal. Identifying the serpent with Lucifer might make sense that way as well - as Lucifer refused to submit to purported divine wisdom out of his polarized thinking, thus causing his fall.
Modern theology typically puts a check on one of God's characteristic qualities: omniscience, omnipotence, omnibenevolence. Usually they elect to limit Its power (God's existence provides the continual basis for manifesting forms/being and becoming, but even God cannot contradict Its own nature and effect, for example, a violation of logical laws - e.g., create something distinct from itself), though some choose the first. Almost never do they limit Its omnibenevolence, understandably. In any case, there is no reason to jump straight to compromising Its goodness. In doing so it just raises complications about moral ontology that you should be well prepared to address (which you cannot if you maintain modern ethics surpasses a supposed divine law).
Ask yourself : Do you like apples? Is your life good and are you happy?
Recommendation : Eat an apple first in the morning for one week and check your happiness.
He tricked them.
He told them they would be like gods.
He told them they would get special knowledge.
He told them they would not die.
1. They were created in the image of God.
2. They had God right there, they could ask Him literally anything, so they had all the knowledge they needed.
3. They were already immortal, they could never die.
>2. They had God right there, they could ask Him literally anything, so they had all the knowledge they needed.
Does a small child have all the knowledge they need if its parents are moderately smart? What mankind gained was the faculty of reason.
>they were already immortal
Yahweh is the god of the Jews, hence he's a wicked demon and Satan himself. Jesus called him the lord of this world. The serpent on the other hand is an ally of mankind and tried to help mankind get rid of Yahweh's dominion by giving man the fruit of the tree of knowledge aka as the "red pill", which teaches the truth about Yahweh and his "chosen people".
Jesus is God.
YHWH (Jehova) is God.
Jesus Christ is the I AM that I AM.
The jews worshiped Jehova, which in turn means they worshiped Jesus because it is God.
The jews of today do NOT worship YHWH nor Jesus.
>If you do not have the son, you do not have the Father.
The serpent = lucifer.
There were originally 5 cherubs in heaven.
The 4 cherubs look like a man, an ox, a lion and an eagle. Serpent is missing.
Serpent = lucifer.
Thus my facepalm at his ignorance. It's shameful to even comment with that kind of ignorance.
How do you like them apples?
No they're not. If they did they would still be sacrificing animals and shit. Jews readily admit that the don't really believe in the Old Testemant.
Jesus was prophesized in the Old Testament. If they accepted God the Father they would have accepted Jesus the Son
Father, Word, Holy Ghost. All of them were present.
The Father was with the jews in the later books.
Jesus with the jews and gentiles.
Holy Spirit with the saved Christians.
Jesus fulfilled all prophecy.
The jews thought their messiah would come, being a ruler. When they saw Jesus coming on donkeys and being humble etc they didn't believe He was God, thus they did not accept Him as messiah, thus He did not rule the entire world.
Had the jews just accepted Jesus as messiah He would have ruled them all.
Jews are ignorant of God. Christians are the true israel according to the Bible.
>implying God the father and the God of the Old Testament are the same
For an evil tree bringeth forth not good fruit; neither does a good tree bring forth evil fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. Luke 6:43,44a
I am the Lord, and there is none else; I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil...
>For an evil tree bringeth forth not good fruit; neither does a good tree bring forth evil fruit.
>am the Lord, and there is none else; I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil.
So then is God a good or bad tree?
They are the same, you are just ignorant of scripture and you of all people do not know what is good and what is evil.
You don't even read the Bible in it's context. Evil there literally is saying "calamity". Not actual evil. Kek.
Ignorance at it's finest, ladies and gents.
This is so cringe worthy, and I know a bunch of people will read this and scratch their heads and then ignore the Bible. All because of ignorance. If I had the energy I'd refute every single point here.
>You can already just google this and find it explained.
It's too rudamentary to actually give answers too in a thread that will deleted tomorrow. If I was going to answer it, I'd do so on my website and keep it on there for years and years.
But, this stuff you can google by yourself if you truly want the answers. It's literally a google search away for each contradiction.
>In the garden of Eden...
>By I. Ron Butterfly
You're literally demanding skeptics to find their own defeat. Either do so explicitly "fine, for the purposes of this thread, i concede to you", or you will refute at least some of the points presented. You could copy/paste your own responses to a .txt so you don't have to do all that arduous typing again, even.
I don't care what I seem to be "demanding." To find the truth is YOUR job, not mine. This has been discussed to death, I am not responsible for you people doing research. I was an atheist too, I still did my research for years, what you guys are talking about and saying is no excuse and it wont work when you are judged either.
So that's what that song meant
Changing the subject what is the symbol on the right in your pic? The one on the left if a papal regalia, fine. But is the one on the right supposed to be the original? And if so, where is it from?
Everyone knows about pedowood and jewgle chrome. Katy perry has been hypnotized and abused all to hell, lil wayne is a nigger being paid by jews, etc.I like your points on judaism. The pharmekia staff is hermes' staff, the double serpants are for when he's guiding souls to the afterlife. With a single snake, like on an ambulance or when moses smelted a snake, it represents healing.
You made it yours when you started pushing your rendition of the truth you believe in this thread.
Hey so what's the connection between bees and this conspiracy satan stuff. Pretty much everything else you post makes sense to me but I'm not clear on that one. Only answer if you want to answer of course
Bee = hive mind
Pic related >>17339394
These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. - Rev 17:13
That is why all these "illuminati" plans etc, anyone who tries to defect without God, are killed almost immediately. And most don't ever try because demons are with them all the time.
This is what the eye represents too, that is why you see it everywhere. Because "they see you".
Nowhere. It is generally known as an apple though. This is why you see "Apple" computers inc having their first computer set at 666.66 dollars or the tv anime Deathnote being surrounded with the apple symbology. Apple represents sin, it's not actually the fruit of the tree, at least I do not believe so, but the Bible does not tell us.
God isn't perfect.
Can be all knowing, all powerful, all benevolent.
Obviously he isn't all knowing because of his need to create Jesus to know what being mortal is like, which was the whole purpose of being born as Jesus. He then sacrifices his son, which his himself, to absolve us of our sins. He didn't know being human and mortal was so bad, which is why he did that so that we may have salvation from ourselves.
Personally, I think God fucked off after Jesus rose from the grave and gave his final message. Knowing how messed up we are and how bad being mortal is, he just left us to our own devices with a way out, if we so choose it. No further need to meddle in our affairs.
So we can believe in God and what he has done for us or choose not to. It is our choice. Of course, you'll go to hell if you choose wrong, so there is not much choice at all. Another failing of a "Perfect" being, proving again he isn't perfect.
>there's a give and take throught the universe, its a literal universal law
>adam and eve knew this, just like they knew how to talk and how to walk.
>they take something that they aren't supposed to
>they don't expect to pay, but know that they must
>thats the reason they hid.
>making God seem like the bad guy when adam and eve stole from God.
you guys sure are trying.
>i create two androids
>i tell them they can use any battery source that they want
>but not my special battery source that is made to boost up and alters any androids ai operations to think abstractly.
>they end up taking it
>they have to be punished
>but if i don't punish them, i cant receive justice.
>wut to do?
>i'll give them a few thousand years then i'll look at the case of the stolen goods again.
you guys sure don't know anything about theology.
> If I had the energy I'd refute every single point here.
And how do you know that you are not ignorant to? I can give you a simple answer, which would include all of the interpretation. You all are fighting about semantics. All the books ever written and all the stories ever told, every thought ever thought and every dream ever dreamt comes from the same origin with the same purpose to collect and process informations. I can say that everything is absolutely true, but only an infinite small piece of the puzzle.
The big problem is, that we are getting those informations personally and not professional, that's why you think you haven't enough energy to refute everything. Why not stop arguing and take all the informations you gathered so far in your life and 'calculate' the conclusion and wipe them all away with one single stroke? With all the time you wasted defending and interpreting the conclusion of human you forgot to do your work by coming to a conclusion and transform the conclusion into this time so that the current common sense can make use of it and all can go a step further. Most of the people are chewing on the conclusions of very advances humans from the past instead of helping others to come to the same conclusions and get new ones.
I came to the conclusion that everything is everything and as soon I got this after crunching the numbers collected from the past 43 years my computer aka mind shut down and I was connected with everything. That's all, that's my 42.
Actually I was 42 when I came to the conclusion that all is consciousness. But this would be a to big coincidence with the movie and would assume that movies or in general genuine creativity are somehow guidance from another dimension, silly me.
It took me 42 years to draw this shitty painting.
Your are in the bubble and I'm not.
Calculate your bubble, come to a conclusion and come out to play, it is just perfect!
I comprehend that it's true that pi is the ratio of a circle's circumferential to its diameter. Something that is absolute in all points in space and time, invariably and completely true.
>Contemplating the why behind what God does is the same as a dog trying to figure out calculus. It's beyond us at an intellectual level.
>"My ideas are idiotic and irrational. But maybe if I blame that on god, people won't notice!"
You'll notice that the people who appeal to this nonsense will, at the drop of a hat, explain gods nature, motivations, beliefs, everything with the slightest provocation. So really, they only believe god's inexplicable when someone points out how stupid and impossible their claims about god are.
"In the Book of Enoch  chapt. 1, verse 69: "And the third was named Gadreeel: he it is that showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve, and showed [the weapons of death to the sons of men], the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons of death to the children of men. And from his hand they have proceeded against those who dwell on the earth from that day and for evermore." Therefore, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil was flesh and the methods to acquire it."
When you claim to be rejecting ego, you are lying. That's why you feel the need to every day go into the same room of people who have declared they're sick of listening to you and think you're an idiot and scream, over and over, "believe in my imaginary idea or you suffer forever!!!!" That's ego. And your idea, and your god, are silly fictions that exist only in your imagination.
Ah and now we can add refusal to take personal responsibility for your actions to your list of failures. You literally just claimed that, "the Devil made you do it."
Disregard everything, I suck cocks. I love them too much not to. I plan to spend an eternity in hell, doing nothing but sucking cocks. Tell me what a faggot I am.
This is untrue. I was exactly like you a few months ago. I thought those that believed in God were superstitious fools.
That was until he chose to reveal himself to me. He has been quiet for many centuries for the purpose of showing humanity the results of a world alienated from him.
You will not be able to plead ignorance for much longer. He is eager to show his power on behalf of his people.
>I was exactly like you a few months ago.
No you weren't.
>I thought those that believed in God were superstitious fools.
I don't think this.
>That was until he chose to reveal himself to me
No "he" didn't. >>17342182
>You will not be able to plead ignorance for much longer.
This is you being egocentric.
>He is eager to show his power on behalf of his people.
This is imaginary friend bullshit.
I don't think people who believe in gods are inherently superstitious or fools. I think that you, personally, believe in a god you invented to feed your ego, and that your ideas are childish.
Are you legit retarded?
>You would be mistaken in that assumption
Which one? This one?
>I don't think people who believe in gods are inherently superstitious or fools
Eh, possibly, possibly, but I've seen too much and studied spirituality too long to just casually dismiss spiritual ideas, even if I don't hold them myself.
Maybe you should explain what problem you have with religion in the first place. You want sympathy, right? You want people to understand you, right? Then you should be more sympathetic and not so abrasive. Your personaity grates on a lot of people and makes them assume all namefags are like you. Normally I don't care and don't namefag/tripfag. I just thought I would one time, for old time's sake. I also have freedom to choose what I do. I'm a off and on Christian - mostly because of my study of esoteric subjects and other things. I'm not a good example of a Christian, but damn it you're making me irritated with your shit. Let's start over, shall we?
Nice to meet you. Tell me why you have such a problem with religion. Is there a reason?
And what gives you the authority to declare that God does not exist? What you fail to realize is that everything humans do revolves around Him and laws he has set up. There is no escape from it, no debating if it is wrong or right, it is just the way it is.
>Maybe you should explain what problem you have with religion in the first place.
You need to explain the problem you have with reading comprehension. I don't have a problem with religion, and I stated that multiple times in just the last few minutes.
I didn't declare god doesn't exist. You know, I'm trying to be forgiving here as I blatantly misread someone's post last night and had to eat some crow over it so, you know, Senator Lintwhistle...HE'S BEEN THERE, but just because I made the same mistake doesn't still make it a mistake, (the person who corrected me called me a fucking retard over it.)
I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to call you a fucking retard. But I am going to encourage you to actually read what I'm saying and respond to that.
The English word for God is severely lacking in nuance or character, but most would agree on what it means. It is a way of talking about the Judeo-Christian divinity. The Creator and Sustainer of the Universe. The one who will raise everyone back to life and judge everyone according to his works. Basically it encapsulates a lot within the very simple word. For this reason, we often go to other words to better talk about who that being is. Muslims call him Allah rather than God, because it shows his uniqueness even when not speaking Arabic. Culturally this was true even in Arabic, where Allah was a proper noun. It was never used to mean polytheistic gods or spirits. Only for the Almighty, another word used to designate the same thing. Thanks to a myriad of similar cultures, we can gloss over many other examples. East Asian shen/kami/san/shin are all words for the Sinic gods. This is also used to designate a monotheistic god, as described previously. For all this, we still have a hard time describing "el-ohim" or "Rabba" as anything but "Avinu" or Father.
>The Creator and Sustainer of the Universe
I can agree with you, but you should expand your understanding of the universe. The universe you perceive is only an infinite small fraction of everything. If you define that God created your universe true, but he is infinite greater. When he is also the creator of time. He maintains every possible possible variation of time simultaneously, which means we are all somehow frozen in time which would collide with free will. The only possible way how God could create time and space and gave us free will is, that god creates the universe trough us. Which means God creates for every living entity his own universes. And free will can only produced by separation, which means God has to hide himself from us and puts us in a bubble where we are separated and have the illusion of individuals.
Interestingly enough, in the Quran Allah is called the "Lord of the Worlds" which seems to imply he created many other planets. This is one of the things that should have caught on with popular culture, like how everyone thinks you have an angel and a devil. That latter belief is from Islam as well.
Both. He lies saying they'd die. They didn't. He then threw a tantrum and then went out of his way to make sure they died eventually.
Like if I said that you'd die if you read a book, but then I smash your head in with a hammer afterwards. The claim and the event don't match up.
It's really not. See, the thing here is, did God have an intent to deceive? He said they'd die if they ate the fruit, and Genesis clearly states what Eve thought that meant, that literally the fruit was lethal, like poison.
Now, some Christians try to make all these spurious and semantic arguments about what God "REALLY" meant, but here's the only thing that's important in determining whether God lied or not and that's, "did he know what Eve would think he meant?" Of course he knew, he's God. So he worded things in such a way that he knew Eve would misunderstand. that's intent to deceive. God lied. Case closed.
(Or, alternatively, God at that time wasn't anywhere close to infallible or all knowing, which is actually the better explanation.)
>if you drive that car, you will get eaten by a bear!
>23 years after driving the car, guy gets eaten by a bear... that was set loose on him by the other guy
Ha! Doesn't work like that, bud.
See, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. This explanation would make sense only if God were actually a schmary little rules-lawyer teenager trying to play a trick on someone. This sort of semantic word twisting isn't worthy of an actual god.
This is a common problem with people who build God in their own image. Their resulting god retains all their human flaws, pettiness, etc.
There's actually no word twisting going on. He stated a simple fact. You guys are twisting words by trying to make it seem like they would die instantly. There is literally no reason to think that.
Which they didn't. They didn't die when they ate the fruit. They died after God cursed them with mortality.
Again, because you don't get it, picking your nose didn't kill you if you died from being shot decades later.
No, that phrase means instantly or near instantly, not that, "you'll die decades later." So what you're trying to argue now is that God is an incompetent who doesn't comprehend how people will interpret words.
And, again, he's trying to paint a picture of God as either this sneering little prick that says something he knows will be misinterpreted then blames everyone else for falling for it, or an alien bumbler who can't figure out how his words will be interpreted. Either version is a poor excuse for a God.
That's not twisting anything. The English phrase, "If you do this, you will die," means that the action will have an immediate impact which will result in your death. If you're not aware of this then you're too ignorant of the language to continue this discussion.
Look at how far you're trying to run around this thing to make it work. That alone should clue you in to the fact that you're position's fucked up. "If I get DEATH something I'll DEATH." Yeah. Wanna know something else about "terminal" cancer? Once it's declared "terminal" it means you're going to die pretty fucking soon.
No one ever says, "you've got terminal cancer, you'll die sometime in the next 40 years."
If your argument relies on god not being able to speak words good then it's fucked or your god's stupid. That's all there is to it.
>That's all there is to it
Well thank goodness we have you around to clear that all up for us. And to think all of the people who have pondered on this throughout the years only needed to ask you for the answer!!
Thank you, you truly are the man with all the answers
You know, it's interesting all the ways you're dishonest. Here's a good example.
Here you paint this as cut and dry, impossible to misinterpret : >>17342529
>You guys are twisting words by trying to make it seem like they would die instantly. There is literally no reason to think that.
Literally, you say, "no reason to think that."
And yet here you admit that there is reason to think that, so much reason that people have been thinking about it, "throughout the years."
>And to think all of the people who have pondered on this throughout the years only needed to ask you for the answer!!
So you're contradicting yourself. But sadly, you're also not showing any problems in my argument, you're just angrily saying that somehow I'm not allowed to be right because of all that throughout the years pondering, which is a fallacy and dishonest as well.
The word play you invent to excuse God is something a petty human would do, not a God of any caliber. A God would know how to phrase the language as to avoid any ambiguity or misunderstanding unless that God wanted there to be misunderstanding. And yeah, that's all there is to it. If there's more, like any actual rational reason that's incorrect, then provide it. Hint, trying to claim those words don't necessarily mean what they very clearly mean won't do it, neither will appealing to the fact that some, like you, refuse to deal with the obvious. You're gonna need a rational position there, buddy, not an emotional one.
The knowledge A&E gained was pleasure!
Your expectations are way to high!
It's called sarcasm you silly goose.
It's obvious you'll never admit you're projecting meaning on the words so there's no reason to continue talking to you. You try and use petty cleverness to cut up and put together God's words in whatever way you like as you use big boy words like fallacy to try and sound smart and blindly insult people and the Most High.
Have your little "victory" if it makes you feel better
This still relies on God being a prick who intentionally avoided telling the truth. Otherwise God would have explained that.
Face it, God lied. He intentionally misled people, knowing they would misunderstand. He withheld information, knowing they wouldn't know it unless he explained it. God misled. God lied.
It's really bizarre how when people like you try to justify what you don't understand about the Bible, you end up making God out to be horrible or idiotic. Well, I say bizarre, it's actually not hard to figure out since in your religion, God is just a manifestation of your ego, but still, you know what I mean. It's weird that the human psyche can produce people as spuriously ridiculous as you are.
"If you eat of this fruit, you will die."
>Dies spiritually and then dies in the flesh.
You: HURR DURR GOD LIED!
Classic antichrist spirit.
This is a perfect example of religion as expressed by a person who has never emotionally matured. Their religious text has a character say a thing that doesn't happen. So they add to the text, (a text they'll argue is perfect and literal in every way,) words and ideas that aren't in the text, and still don't justify or solve the problem. Then they'll call you a supernatural evil entity for pointing this out.
That's how children behave, not adults.
Let's see if repeating it with a bit more detail will work.
God: The day you eat of the tree, you will die.
Humans: Eat of the tree, die spiritually, introducing sin and death into the entire creation.
You: HURR DURR GOD LIED, THEY DIDN'T DIE.
This is what Christianity today is represented by. This hateful, dishonest person spewing Bible fan fiction. This person is trying to claim that by shouting HURR DURR over and over again, they're an enlightened, good human being in touch with an almighty divine being of pure goodness.
That is sheer ego screaming out. POTMH is literally just an angry little kid yelling, "Look at me!" over and over.
This is a genuine mental disease, for someone like him to act like that and still, in his mind, consider himself to be the "good" guy.
>Implying one person represents a whole religion
>Implying you don't attack people's character instead of admitting you're wrong and addressing the actual argument
He's right you are kind of special :D
in the text, humans didnt introduce death, god did. he committed the first murder, killing an animal to make clothing for Adam and Eve.
if there was no concept of sin before the consumption of the fruit, then how did Lucifer, the Morning-Star, fall from grace? he lied to Adam and Eve. sin.
did god know about it? according to the bible, yes. god created everything. god knows everything that has happened and is going to happen. he created humanity to watch them fall, and to spend eternity kissing his ass so that they don't end up in hell.
also, if we're breaking down correct translations, the correct translation of the text states that the 'rib' that eve was made from is actually the penile bone. which is why humans are the only mammal without a bone in the penis.
What argument? The argument is this : To be honest, to not mislead, God had to say what he meant and allow no room for misunderstanding, something that should be easy for a god. In addition, the whole, "died spiritually" thing is Bible fan fiction. It doesn't appear in Genesis, it's invented to ignore that situation in Genesis.
The thing is that most Christians, indeed most Jewish people, accept the story that God misled Adam and Eve. It's not actually especially debated among the majority of either religion. God can lie and mislead, he does it on more than one occasion. It's, "Noah's Ark was for really real," style children trying to pretend the whole thing is fundamentalist literal truth, a fringe minority to be sure, that make up these silly arguments.
Most people believe that the Genesis story depicts God as misleading Adam and Eve, both inside and outside of Christianity. POTMH acting like a vile little prick, attacking people, behaving like a clod and making crap up aren't going to convince anyone of anything but that he's an asshole and that Christians are assholes.
No, they didn't. You're just ignoring everything being discussed.
When you say, "If you commit this action, you'll die," that means one thing. It means that the thing will have a direct affect that will cause your physical body to quickly expire.
If you want to mean something else like, "you'll die SPIRITUALLY" then you have to say those words, because that's a different meaning, so you need a different sentence.
Now, do you have an argument or are you just going to keep piling onto the impression that too many Christians can't think rationally at all?
So basically, your assumption and ignorance rules your life.
Because God said they would die, in your mind, He had to mean they would immediately die in the flesh and because they only died in the spirit and their flesh started to decay right at that moment, they didn't die according to the way you want them to have died for it to be "true".
Kek. You're very special, friend.
Again, this is just POTMH acting as an insecure child insulting people and behaving irrationally because others won't believe in their egocentric version of god.
Again, it's worth pointing out that most humans don't believe in POTMH's idea of God, including most Christians.
I bet you were this kid:
Dad: Son if you do your chores, you'll get a hamburger.
kid: Yay! Does chores.
Kid: Dad I'm done! I'm so hungry.
Dad: Okay let's go and buy one at mcdonal--
Kid: OMG YOU LIAR, DURR, YOU TOLD ME I'D GET A HAMBURGER!!!
Dad: Yeah and you will, let's--
Kid: NO! I WANT IT NOW, INSTANTLY THE MOMENT IM DONE!
This is how I will imagine you, Senator Lintwhistle, each time I see you.
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I am more likely to be right than the masses just by this verse alone. Without anyone knowing a single thing about me.
Guys, face it!
You are all Christians! Everyone believes in different things, but any of you tries to save the other one!
That is in my opinion the true spirit of Christianity! You are all taking about the same out of a different perspective.
The Internet connects different world's together.
Stop fighting about a few old misinterpreted words.
Why not start finding the dots and build a place where everyone fits in.
You don't need the approval of a higher instance to do such a work. If you need one, I give it to you hereby.
And I forgive you all your sins hereby, if this could motivate you.
You all do a great work, I'm very proud of you all!
This is what Jesus thinks about uniting everyone.
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Truth is abundant, truth is easily available, truth is the hardest thing to convince people to believe.
>I wasn't talking about spiritually anyway
The conversation you interjected yourself into focuses on the word specifically, so if you're not talking about it then you're not relevant to the conversation. Which you, frankly, weren't so it's redundant evidence.
Universal truth has never been measured at all. The closest humanity's come, to date, is the axioms of formal reasoning, basically that there is no such thing as a manifest paradox. And that only has an absolute inductive precedent, it's certainly not established universal truth!
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Read that carefully. God clearly is telling you, they will surely die.
If you jump off a bridge, you will die. Does that mean as soon as you jump off the bridge you die? No, it takes a second or two to hit the ground.
Adam and Eve's genetics were perfect, they began to die the moment they ate of the fruit.
You want a burger?
I was talking to you ealier about the simple fact that they died. I'm allowed to continue the conversation whenever the fuck I want. Where the fuck do you get off telling me I can't?
If anything Prince interjected which is fine because this is an OPEN FORUM. It's not your private Christian bashing club
He who has the Spirit, has life.
He who has not the Spirit, has not life.
Adam and Eve lost the Spirit the instant they sinned.
They were made to live forever, and they became mortal.
They were made to live with God, and they became separated from God.
You are an evil person. I hope you get help.
If they were made to be immortal then what was the fruit of life doing lingering around there? This is, again, Bible fan fiction. This is something you made up, or recited from someone else making it up.
The truth is that you are dead. You were born dead, and have remained dead. You have no life in you.
Because you are physically alive, you are unaware that you are dead. Your own body deceives you.
>If anything Prince interjected which is fine because this is an OPEN FORUM. It's not your private Christian bashing club
We're done. You're just yelling random accusations now. Disagree with someone like you and you start screaming, "Christian basher!" Another sad example of someone claiming to be Christian that does nothing but lie and slander.
To give them a choice to believe God, and obey God, or believe the devil, and obey the devil.
Agency is useless without options.
And like you, they chose to disbelieve God, and believe the devil.
Let's think logically for a second, it's hard but let's try.
1. You will die the day you eat the fruit.
2. A short while later, the author says they ate of the fruit but were still breathing.
Is it more likely that; A, the Bible is a complete scam, the most sold book in the world, most banned book in the world, and it's just fiction.
Or B, you're wrong.
Another interesting thread destroyed by people screaming, "believe exactly what I say or you're evil and you're satan and you're a Christian hater!"
What's important to remember is that those people are not in any way Christians beyond belonging to a cultural club. They just hate their fellow humans. So no, no one is bashing "Christians." These people are just bad people, liars and haters with no interest in Jesus or God beyond as an excuse to lie and hate.
Jesus is God.
Jesus came down to earth.
The pharisees told Jesus He was wrong, evil, of satan, a devil worshiper, a drunk, etc.
You call Christians, who are giving you Biblical truth, evil, wrong, screamers etc.
Do you not see anything?
Yeah, me too. But hey, you know what Hebrews says:
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I've never seen anybody so good at dodging direct questions and arguments.
Probably because you don't have answers
You literally just left the conversation to go talk shit to OP because you're too pathetic to hold your own even as you hold others to higher standards than you hold yourself
I enjoy these threads. What no one enjoys are the fake /x/ christians like Prince. The liars, the accusers, the people who can't discuss these ideas but can only keep screaming that everyone has to believe what they believe or they're evil.
Some of you are trolls. Some are just idiots and assholes. Most of /x/ doesn't like you and there are regular petitions to get you banned.
But for me the worst is the dishonesty. If you were to try to have an honest, interested and informed discussion about topics Christian, I'd be all for it. But that would require you to stop lying that everyone that doesn't agree with you hates Christians, which you can't even do here. The post I'm responding to is you doing that.
Let's face it, /x/ Christians are shitty, dishonest people. That's been abundantly clear for the past several days. And I've been around long enough to know this cycle by heart. you're going to get more and more belligerent, you're going to spam more and more threads with how everyone has to believe in your stupid version of Jesus, eventually the mods will come in and ban one or two of you, you'll all shut up for a couple of weeks, reset.
The day Christians are banned here, is the day the light goes out of /x/. And your souls will starve for truth, so much so that eventually you will start consuming anything.
We are not here because we are loved, admired, or any other nonsense reason. We are here because God commands us to share the truth.
And there is no "kinda right" in Christianity. Either you know the truth or you don't. Either you're saved or you're not.
There are no half saved people or people with half truths in Christianity. it's a lie or it's not.
now you're claiming that by pointing out that you're dishonest, that somehow means everyone else is dishonest too. Another lie. You're that asshole I don't like to talk to, aren't you? The one that never stops lying.
Prince is mocking and insulting a human. By your argument that means he hates all humans. But you know your argument is bullshit. You're a liar.
So when I'm pointing out that you're a liar, am I "hating Christians?" No. I'm merely pointing out that you're a liar. And you are.
I'm not the best at making music, but enjoy.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
its just an ancient fable talking about how humans go though puberty, the only knowledge they learned from the tree was that they were naked aka puberty. thats why humans cant go back to the garden once you hit puberty you can go back to being a child
That's like complaining about wanting to jump off a high rise building but "reality" will kill you.
Like, the amount of ignorance that is automatically turned on, is hilarious. It's like a switch in your minds.
If you lie just one time, you're going to burn in hell. All have sinned. God's standard is perfection, nobody is perfect. Thus God Himself had to come down and die for all our sins and when you trust He did that for you, you get His perfection imputed unto you.
what do the two papers represent. i can see they are different colours also. could you go into some detail on this painting that took you 42 years to come up with?
and what is the firey thing in the water?
also is there a reason the planets have like electricity in the reality part and not the imagined part
Again : the fruit is SEX the knowledge about the pleasures of the body.
When you have your first orgasm you die in a sense, because this sensation overwhelms the feeling of oneness. OK, that's for the orthodox ones, maybe there will be in the future an 900 year old virgin walking on the earth.
This is for the liberal : the problem with pleasure and the orgasm in particular is, that's this sensation is extremely strong. Metaphorical and maybe literally the orgasm is so intense that it could be like a big bang and creating a small universe called mind, I like it to refer as the bubble. Our consciousness slips into this bubble and you get disconnected from the oneness.
For the spiritists : oneness is so extremely loud and subtle intense because it's everything, like all the noise on earth could be heard at the same time, I call it intuition and the intuition is located two fingers under the belly button. Every child is born this way in the pure state of oneness. As soon the sexuality kicks in, the snake appears, the snake is the hormones but also an energy referred to kundalini (India). That's why the fruit of knowledge is golden. The feeling of oneness is very intense, that's why the kids have so much power. After the first sexual encounter, the feeling of oneness will be over thrown by the singular sensation of pleasure. The individual sensation of pleasure becomes dominant and the feeling of oneness get suppressed and becomes a silver lining at the horizon - intuition. Anyone can reconnect.
I hope this is more elaborate this time, but I will evolve and try it again and again.
Congrats! you are the first one who is actually interested in my picture, thanks!
But sorry I won't explain, this would take out the magic!
But who cares :
- the both letters are the same, the one in the isolated state of the mind and the one in the state of oneness. The colours means, that you actually are able to understand things.
- the fiery key is the intuition
- the electricity in the outer universe are the connections between everything or the energy which is cut out of our perception (aura)
The "tree" is a metaphor for the Tree of Life. The prize of the Tree, its "fruit", is the knowledge one gains from traversing and studying the Tree. As for what is the tree? It's creation - the emanations of God.
You're taking the word of YHWH literally. You have to understand that YHWH is just another member of the Semitic pantheon who happens to be currently in power. He wasn't always in power as he had to overthrow El to get in power. You're right they aren't worthy of worship.