List the top 3 conspiracy theories that you are utterly convinced are real and that nothing could persuade you otherwise. And for each one, state the single biggest reason why you believe this
>9/11 was carried out by the U.S Government
Reason: Collapse of WTC 7
>The Moon landings were faked
Reason: The existence of the Van Allen belt
>The existence of the Illuminati
Reason: Endless occult symbolism at all levels of society and media
>the entire international space programme is fake
Reason: the footage all looks fake, and seems to keep pace with movie special effects
>the majority of major news stories are faked with crisis actors, often as part of a training exercise.
Reason: The media can 100% control how the story pans out, including official nonsense conspiracy theories, like micro-nukes did 9/11. It's perfect propaganda
>nuclear weapons aren't real.
Reason: All the footage looks faked. It's fear porn for the masses. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed by incendiary bombs. That's why you have concrete structures still standing
It's all lies folks.
Also Democracy. That's bullshit too.
>>nuclear weapons aren't real.
>Reason: All the footage looks faked. It's fear porn for the masses. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed by incendiary bombs. That's why you have concrete structures still standing
>Nukes aren't real
Painfully obvious that it was a controlled demolition. WTC 7, the hole in the pentagon etc
Literally impossible to kill that many people with the method that is proposed. The abundance of newspaper articles (jewish owned papers) who mentions the 6 million figure several decades in advance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk
Gas chamber door, individual ovens, non existent mass graves, chimney not being connected to anything, all alleged extermination camps being in soviet occupied territory etc.
That speech and that shot.
>So that face proves that nukes exist? A fucking frying pan fire could cause those injuries
More like all the
No, not really. It was just a reaction face.
But the shadows that are burned in all over in the place that correlating with the angle where the bomb went of might. If this is the effect of firebombings i like to see some similar pics from Tokyo and Dresden.
Symbols of an Alien Sky by the Thunderbolts Project would be a top one imo:
>Here we offer David Talbott's first glimpses of celestial dramas in ancient times. Just a few thousand years ago a gathering of planets hung as towering forms in the ancient sky close to the earth, provoking spectacular electric discharge formations above our forebears and inspiring the vast complex of world myths and symbols
There was actually a lampshade made out of human skin
tho they wherent massed produced or anything, one officer at auswitch made it and hade it in his office, so thats where that myth comes from
also your a antisemite because your a antisemite not because your a "holohoax" denier
also the holocaust happend there is no denying that, to what extent it happend and what was common practice and what was simply urban legends is up to debate, honestly its a waste of time to debate the subject and the only people who are remotely intressted in it are stormfags/pol/tards
>There was actually a lampshade made out of human skin
Unless you count goats as human, no.
>also your a antisemite because your a antisemite not because your a "holohoax" denier
Go away shill and take your shitty JIDF handbook with anti holohoax arguments with you.
>also the holocaust happend there is no denying that
Yeah, ofc. Never forget the 6 millions.
Nobody believes in your lies any more, your time is up. Deal with it.
So of there wasn't a holocaust. Who are these people?
And these people here. How did they get that malnourished as a group. What really happened to them?
People who starved in concentration camps because there was a war going on and the allies shot at everything that moved on the roads.
A couple of pics of dead bodies and a pile of hair doesn't prove that 6 million where gassed to death. Don't be ridiculous.
I'm not a holocaust denier, but you've got really shitty argumentation skills, and don't understand the narrative that deniers have.
The holocaust isn't a historical fact on account of malnourished jews in a prison camp; malnourishment happens in times of war and detention of prisoners.
The holocaust is a historical fact because the demonstrated intent of the Nazi leadership and bureaucracy before and during the war, because of the actions of the Einstatzgruppen in Eastern Europe, because of forced marches, starvations, overwork, disappearing postwar demographics, and yes, because of the wholesale massacres in the gas chambers.
Pictures of emaciated naked people don't prove this historical fact, and people like you only give deniers smug self-satisfaction because they can gloat at you about your ignorance of typhus and food shortages, and ramble about Madagascar and atrocity propaganda.
>because of the wholesale massacres in the gas chambers.
>Actual original door from alleged gas chanber at Auschwitz
Top kek mate.
If the Germans wanted to gas and kill maximum amount of people they would build a real homicidal and efficient gas chamber. The alleged gas chamber (and ovens) are not practical or efficient at all and the whole story falls apart because it is simply not possible to kill and dispose of that many bodies in that amount of time with that kind of equipment.
If the Germans wanted to do it they would have done and you would have seen real and efficient gas chambers together with huge mass graves or huge blast furnaces capable of burning hundreds of bodies every hour. I mean come on, this is the Germans we are talking about. This shitty ''''''''gas chamber'''''''' looks like it was built in Zimbabwe.
Read Richard J. Evans. I've had this argument on /pol/ plenty. I come to /x/ for spoops, and was only criticizing the guy who was criticizing holocaust deniers ineffectively.
Why would i read some redundant shit? Just knowing the laws of physics and watching the actual building where it supposedly took place makes it clear that the official narrative is pure fiction.
Its like arguing with some one who is saying that the sky is red and then when you tell them to go out and look at the sky they say
>Well read this book, it proves that the sky is red.
There is a reason why its against the law to question this in Germany. The truth holds up against scrutiny, only the lie needs protection from the state.
>Why would i read some redundant shit? Just knowing the laws of physics and watching the actual building where it supposedly took place makes it clear that the official narrative is pure fiction.
Why are you implying I think 9/11 wasn't an inside job? It was, and I subscribe to the Michael Ruppert line on the goings-on.
For the second half, history is not physics, it's a slippery thing, and is not algorithmic. Richard J. Evans, in his book "Lying About Hitler" fastidiously and capably refutes the many of the arguments you and other holocaust deniers advance. The reason I'm backing away from talking about this is because I've talked about it a lot of various chans, and this isn't the right board to talk about it. Also, when discussing such a huge, and I mean that in scale, not in importance, event, there is no smoking gun. You posting a couple of pictures is not going to convince me, and shouldn't convince anyone.
Read the Evans book. I found a .pdf of it for you: http://solargeneral.org/wp-content/uploads/library/richard-j-evans-lying-about-hitler-history-holocaust-and-the-david-irving-trial-2001.pdf
Like you say, 'truth holds up against scrutiny.'
I am just going to deal with the holocaust the same way a judge in a murder trial deals with a group of witnesses consisting of compulsive liars. If they have been proven to lie about 9/10 things i am just going to throw everything they say after that in to the trash.
>every other thread on any board degrades to /pol/ in five posts or less
Is there anything you faggots can do but say "muh JIDF"
saying the holocaust dident happen is like saying WORLD WAR 2 dident happen because there where plenty of neutral countries so technically it wasent a world war
"muh holohoax is lie bcuz muh 6 gorrillion"
you cant deny that it happend (BECAUSE IT FUCKING DID) but you can argue exactly how it happend, if you hade any reading skills you would have understood this from my first post
its a shame aint it
to bad those faggots cant be contained on their own board
i mean at this point they are getting as bad as SJW
>it happened because it happened argument
just fucking stop already. Maybe this thread can go back on the rails if you would all fuck off. Both sides of this stupid argument
so you can prove they never put people in concentration camps? cause thats the only way you can prove the holocaust dident happen
well atleaste the nazis took good care of their employes, to bad the same cant be said for their slave labour
>College, at least in America, is a scam to keep the "educated" up-and-coming generation under the intellectual and economic boot of those already on top, and to keep shitty jobs filled by desperate postgrad youth
Reason: The 5-7% interest being collected on the 1.2 TRILLION federal student debt is making someone very rich, many other reasons but I'll keep this brief
>Meat/dairy is pushed to keep us unhealthy and apathetic and disconnected to suffering/death
Reason: Heavy influence in schools (think food pyramid and school lunch) and politics (USDA) by dairy/beef farmers, amount of advertising done (Got Milk?), scientific literature, 'muh delicious murder', personal experience
>This thread is a survey of crackpots to see if anyone's got anything too close to the truth; if so, this thread will be pruned, the IP will be logged, and...
Instead of arguing about 80-year-old history, take a look at who owns us RIGHT NOW.
Please stop. You don't know their argument and you're embarrassing yourself. Read the book I posted earlier in the thread, then if you feel like arguing with these people on /pol/ or other chans do so.
It's just clear you have very little knowledge of the holocaust and you're going into a gunfight with no ammunition.
Paid shills are real and exist all over the internet. Posting that picture is associating a "conspiracist" mindset with holocaust denial and insanity. Don't be an invidious little worm.
>Reason: The 5-7% interest being collected on the 1.2 TRILLION federal student debt is making someone very rich, many other reasons but I'll keep this brief
The conspiracy here is capitalism. Read the first two volumes of 'Capital' to learn more.
>Instead of arguing about 80-year-old history, take a look at who owns us RIGHT NOW.
Good words, but remember that 4chan is not an activist hub, it's a discussion forum.
This thread has devolved nicely.
WTC 7 is crazy. I don't mean you are crazy to question it, but that it's crazy that it isn't constantly being talked about. A building with DoD financial records caves into a nice neat little heap with no records recovered. Pretty convient when investigators were looking for $2 Trillion in lost money.
The building isn't once mentioned in the 9/11 report either. It's completely disappeared from the public's perception. I don't think WTC 7 is a smoking gun that proves an inside job, but along with a lot of the other holes in the official 9/11 story make me thing the official report is more than a little bit fabricated
>Paid shills are real and exist all over the internet.
yeah, just like how reddit or tumblr are responsible for all of the shitposting on 4chan.
bitch, please. If people were actually getting paid to argue on the internet, basements would be emptying at an alarming and visible rate. Shit I might be able to have something left for myself over after feeding my kid and paying hydro if it was that easy.
>You don't know their argument
yeah right faggot i have heard all their arguments
>and you're going into a gunfight with no ammunition.
no im not, im pissing of /pol/tards and makeing them call me a shill cant you tell the diffrence?
>Paid shills are real and exist all over the internet. Posting that picture is associating a "conspiracist" mindset with holocaust denial and insanity. Don't be an invidious little worm.
Im not arguing that shills dont exist but i do have to agree with him, calling shill as soon as someone dosent agree with you will create a echo chamber, and it makes them belive that they are right since the shills came and "tried to suppresss meeh freedumbs of speach"
>yeah right faggot i have heard all their arguments
You obviously haven't. I doubt you've read Arthur Butz or anyone or actually engaged with anything beyond the memes. They are very similar, most of them were brainwashed by jpegs, but you shouldn't be. Anyway you type like a retard so do us all a favor and just sage and move on.
But it was. Watch this:
>article about people using online social engineering tactics to ruin reputations
calling shill on anything you disagree with is cancer, plain and simple. It's a canned reaction, like telling people to fuck of to leddit or the fedora meme.
This is 4chan, not some platform of actual importance or genuine cultural influence. But if posting your opinions here makes you feel important, well, right on I guess.
>This is 4chan, not some platform of actual importance or genuine cultural influence.
Ok, buddy. They've got all the infrastructure in place, they just don't use because they figure the war of ideas should win!
Honestly watch the whole video I posted.
Well when you see people on the internet that defend the 6 million lie the only reasonable explanation is that they are paid shills because people that are dumb enough to believe in it for real don't have the mental capacity of operate a computer.
Concentration camp does not equal extermination camp.
>well atleaste the nazis took good care of their employes, to bad the same cant be said for their slave labour
Those things are for the camp prisoners to. Here are some eyewitnesses talking about letters, theater, football etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fqFhsB7URM
>bottom right pic
I think that's trying to show the big metal door, which actually looks legit, behind the wooden one.
Are there any pics/videos of wtc 7 from the other side?
>I think that's trying to show the big metal door, which actually looks legit, behind the wooden one.
There are no big metal door in the Auschwitz gas chamber. You can go there and look for yourself if you want to.
Fuck your jew propaganda!
Filthy jews crucified jesus. Filthy jew pro satan degenerates.
>the Great Pyramid was built with advanced technology
Reason: the scale of its construction and mathematics of its design
>the CIA was involved in the assassinations of JFK, MLK and RFK
Reason: the body of evidence is so huge it's nearly impossible to narrow it down to one reason.
>there was advanced technology in ancient India
Dem ancient Sanskrit texts, man. Crazy shit.
>>the Great Pyramid was built with advanced technology
>Reason: the scale of its construction and mathematics of its design
This one is pretty stupid. Nothing about the pyramids was impossible to do. Tedious and costly sure, but not impossible.
Ok, I just finished your linked video--the whole thing, all 2 hours, 24 minutes, and 49 minutes. Can I ask if you pay taxes? Do you buy from conglomerates or small businesses? Do you live in America? How can I continue living here with a conscience?
9/11: In a courtroom it would be called a preponderance of evidence.
JFK: a man cannot fire a bolt action rifle that fast, so there were at least two shooters. Being shot from behind would make the brains fly out the front not the back.
I don't have a third theory, everything else has decent counterpoints or not enough evidence.
There are Nazi apologists that infiltrate online communities and quote-mine, misquote, and otherwise abuse the historic record, grasping at the most tenuous of straws, in an attempt to deny the reality of the Holocaust.
I've read all their books, heard all their excuses, and even read a book or two they would rather I didn't read, such as Jean Claude Pressac's, a guy who started out in the denial camp and confessed to contemplating suicide when he realized the enormity of his error.
I've seen census records both pre- and post-war that evince an otherwise inexplicable drop in worldwide populations of Jews, the Romani, and other ethnic groups.
I've seen the blueprints for the krematoria.
Here's a link.
I'd provide more, but at the end of the day, I'm arguing with Nazis and I already feel soiled by the experience., If given an opportunity, I'd far rather "debate" you assholes like my grandfather did, so I'm closing out right here.
This anon makes sense. The "gas chambers" are too low grade for a genocide.
>wooden doors for gas chambers
Nazi's were advanced in technology and warfare. They built some crazy advanced shit. Im pretty sure Nazi's wouldn't use wooden doors to gas people.
We have records of the orders going out to destroy the krematoria before the camps were captured by the Russians or the Allied Forces. They had em. We even have the work orders from the companies that built them.
I've eaten *two* piles of shit, to be borrow your term - the side both sides cite as their "truth," Between them, I've satisfied my doubts over whether or not it actually occurred. It did.
As usual, piles of shit aren't particularly palatable and the truth lies somewhere more toward the middle.
>destroy the krematoria
But the ovens are still there.
Individual ovens for individual ashes. Makes total sense if you want to genocide millions of people.
Each of those trays with the big- baffles at their ends are of sufficient length to hold multiple bodies.
Where's that picture from? And which krematorium? With a little time I can dig back through the link in >>17329305 and provide exact specs. Better yet, look for yourself. I already have.
These ovens were used for typhus victims in world war 2
The allies bombed german supply lines
This lead to a typhus outbreak
This leads to the burning of clothes and infecte bodies
They found german medals in these ovens to faggot
It was typhus
>Each of those trays with the big- baffles at their ends are of sufficient length to hold multiple bodies.
To funny mate.
If the Germans, a people famed for their industry, wanted to genocide millions of people it would look like pic related or this.
Just straight from the train wagons in to the oven or grinder. No camps, no pools, no theaters, no camp currency, no football fields, no medical care for people to sick for '''''''gassing''''''', no ovens for individual ashes.
Just pure efficiency.
>>the Great Pyramid was built with advanced technology
>Reason: the scale of its construction and mathematics of its design
Well, it was pretty advanced in 2,500 BC. However, the great pyramid is lopsided, doesn't fit the golden ratio and there's drawings of how they were build (pic related)
>Those are men from HOLODOMOR in Ukraine you fuckign kike shill
Big surprise there.
There was definitely people in their ranks with a deep interest in the occult. Heinrich Himmler is probably the best known. The Indiana Jones movies are not that far from reality, the nazis really went around and searched/collected artifacts.
You guys are retarded
Besides WTC7 in general just watch the 9/11 documentary available on Youtube called "A New Pearl Harbor". It's one of the most enlightening documentaries on the subject ever released. There can be no doubt after watching the documentary.
Yeah, because the Nazis were stupid enough to leave all the implements in place with the Russians and the Allies, literally knocking on the door, right?
That door you have at the bottom of your jpeg was pulled from the rubble of a burn pile. It's metal, had remnants of a rubber gasket still clinging to it, and had a mesh-covered viewport. The other door, the wooden one that appears to be in place and still intact was on, I believe, what they referred to as Krematorum I. It's the one that got converted into a bomb shelter after Krematoria II and III were built, It's also the site where they gassed 200 Polish soldiers back when they were still working out the kinks.
See >>17329305 for reference.
I'd hang around and refute every last point you fucktards are attempting(quite poorly) to make, but you are the veritable definition of not worth my time.
>Painfully obvious that it was a controlled demolition. WTC 7, the hole in the pentagon etc
well in the 911 footage their are people in the buildings or jumping out, but as the building collapses in mid air the structure disintegrates and turns into dust before hitting the ground
so yeah not sure what to make of this except its most likely FAKE AND GAY
Ben? Ben Goldenblatzsteinberg? Is that you?? Hey man, how's it going? It's your friendly goyim, anon anonerson, here. What's up, buddy? Just spreadin' a little JIDF propaganda, eh? Well, talk to you later, dude!
>Yeah, because the Nazis were stupid enough to leave all the implements in place with the Russians and the Allies, literally knocking on the door, right?
Good thing those evil Nazis goofed up and left just enough physical evidence for the Soviets to find, after which the Soviets promptly destroyed it all for some strange reason. But it doesn't matter anyway, surely the Soviets would never lie about a bitter wartime enemy.
The fairy ring that seeks to manipulate the fairy Queen. I've seen it with my own eyes.
The Moon controls the tides. No culture has ever known another cause for the tidal force.
He's right, even official narrative no longer supports the 6 million number.
It's interesting how saying something is either treacherous garbage or truth depending on who says it.
Christianity is a jewish construct to keep the masses docile and ashamed of themselves and "Satan" is the old god of man
Satan translates to antagonist, with the jews view the rest of humanity as. Only fitting the true nordic god would be their worst enemy
we went on the moon, we could be on the moon right now but we no longer have the economy or motivation.
implied Reason: The existence of the Van Allen belt
I'm pretty sure, if not certain that the Van Allen belt, a concentration of gamma rays isn't immediately lethal, unless you're doing an EVA as you travel through it.
they reported seeing flashes and hallucinations, but the metal casing of their ship was more than sufficient to do the travel. it was designed to block cosmic rays.
What you refer as them is the banks, media and all the political shit, there is no illuminati, in fact.
?The WTC was hit by jets, Bush and the CIA knew it happened. The Mossad was essentially behind it but the WTC7 hosting CIA offices and almost nothing was definitively demolished. and no one died in there.
not only they knew what they were doing, but also they had large whips and a lot of slaves too.
I know there was millions of jews exterminated, but hey, for a total of 20+ million civilians killed by Hitler's regime, it's nothing special. it should be time to calm down complaining about the poor jews like they were the only victims of a war that made 50 million deads in Europe. also Mao and Stalin both made bigger scores. so shut up, jews, Soral was right!
HAARP is a radio signal intelligence station, not a climate control machine, the ionosphere cannot interact with climate and cannot be altered, but with a good antenna, you can be anywhere in the world and get any signal from the shortwave range of frequencies, and there's often a lot of info to decode from devices operating on those channels.
>The existence of the Van Allen belt
This has been explained so many times on /x/ that I literally feel an overwhelming exhaustion every time it's mentioned. Van Allen himself has explained how we got through the belts, but you retarded faggots just won't listen. You can't even be arsed to look this shit up anymore. I'm done posting study after study explaining this shit to you delusional fucks only to be called a 'shill' by some underage dickhead that didn't even bother to read the paper.
Yes, I could be considered mad by most definitions of the word.
How can you deny the holocaust when its an almost univeraally agreed upon fact that Germany lost the war because of the cost of the Jewish extermination. I'm not Jewish or Christian I just don't understand how you can logically believe this?
There are books written from all sides at the time that confirm the mass killings. The numbers are going to be wrong. All you have to do is look at the fact that an entire fucking continent was left homeless. Russians wrote about the atrocities. There are letters to loved ones from Russians with details about what was found.
So they got the number wrong. A lot of people died, horrible, things were done by all parties but at the end of the day a shit-ton of people were snuffed from existence. Whole families and liniages gone. Memories and stories we will never hear. At the end of the day all the people in power were to blame, but saying it didn't happen at all. That's just stupid.
>9/11 was an inside job, perpetrated by (some form of) the US Government
Reason: Eyewitness testimony of NYC firefighters (As well as far too many other reasons to list here.)
>We didn't go to the moon in 1969 (although we possibly went later)
Reason: Inconsistencies in the footage/photographs (As well as far too many other reasons to list here.)
>JFK was assassinated by (some form of) the US Government
Reason: The way too many "coincidental" connections of Oswald & the CIA (As well as far too many other reasons to list here.)
I'm just going to come out and say that I think pretty much any "official" story is *not* accurate. This isn't to say that every "official" story is completely inaccurate though. You can't just 100% lie about something of that sort of magnitude, you can however pepper the facts with your brand of revisionist "truth".
I had a *very* hard time narrowing to simply 3. I don't accept ass-pulling, wild mass guessing, doomsday hysteria or any of that other nonsense. It's the ones where a clear motive can be established. The ones with too many "coincidences", or outright inconsistencies. A handful of "coincidences" might be just that, actual coincidence, but when it becomes a mountain of them? That sounds like evidence of...something.
>Inconsistencies in the footage/photographs
Like what? It wouldn't happen to be any of these, would it?
>As well as far too many other reasons to list here.
While I know you've already classified me as the tinfoil hat variety kook, I'd like to state that I think some of the photos in question are people grasping at straws. I can accept *some* of the explanations that NASA gives, but some are just fucking ridiculous.
Here's a good one. This is supposedly two locations shot *miles* from one another. NASA *claims* that due to the moon's size this could occur naturally in two locations... I'm calling bullshit on this.
The fact that the Apollo computer system had 64kb memory and operated at roughly 0.043MHz.
The fact that we needed to beat the "godless commies" in the space race is a fairly huge one. I honestly think there is a good chance we've been to the moon, I'd say roughly 80%, but a 0% chance we went in 1969.
Also if you're this guy >>17330780
I don't disagree. I think that denying it is just nonsensical grasping at straws bullshit.
>almost univeraally agreed upon fact that Germany lost the war because of the cost of the Jewish extermination
>/x/ gives a history lesson
It's generally agreed upon that Germany started its downfall when Hitler broke his treaty with Stalin and invaded Russia prematurely, against the advice of his generals, resulting in German troops getting bogged down in Russia during the harsh winter of 1942. Ever heard of the Battle of Stalingrad, what is often considered the turning point in the war?
Try again champ. The Germans had countless chances to continue the blitzkrieg better tanks, better soldiers, better propergander. But they kept putting money into the extermination of jews. Down to the last days of the war they were still forcing pows jews and other prisoners to march back to Germany. They never stopped running trains to the camps. Soldiers were sharing guns and starving but they kept taking jews to camps. They were loosing the war so badly Hitler's generals were killing themselves to avoid the punishment they new they would!d receive and still the camps were manned and running. They lost the war because of the holocaust end of story.
Plus read any Russian account of the time. Germany marched to the Russians front door before Stalin would even consider that Hitler would betray him. He was litterly fucked and only because the Japs attacked the yanks at Pearl harbour so Stalin new he wasn't going to get attacked from the east and he was able to focus the serbs who were the only reason the Russians were able to push Germany back, regain their territory, and kill their own people who had to live under nazi rule.
I can supply a long list of books and refrecnes if you like. I'm guessing your argument is cause I said so and you aren't going to listen. It I'm happy to try and improve your understanding.
Even without a detailed examination of the images, I can spot differences in the hills' shapes. Examples of this phenomenon occuring on Earth with locations even closer together have been shown (And detailed locations on earth seem much more distinct than some hills on the moon.)
But if you don't trust my eyes, I believe this specific image is discussed in this paper http://www.studyphysics.ca/apollo2.pdf
>The fact that the Apollo computer system had 64kb memory and operated at roughly 0.043MHz.
What part of the mission do you think would have required a more powerful computer system to accomplish?
>The fact that we needed to beat the "godless commies" in the space race is a fairly huge one.
Actually that's one of the biggest reasons to believe that we went to the moon in 1969. The Soviet Union, along with Japan, India, China, the UK, etc. all either monitored the shuttle or found evidence of the success of the landing afterward.
Now this is just hogwash. You're either a troll or an idiot.
Hitler broke is own back with his autist level micromanagement of the military, despite knowing fuck all about military tactics. Of particular note is his blundering of Germany's weapons programs, he cancelled a number of insanely successful ones and replacing them with epically ridiculous (and costly) ones.
You know I remember reading that the ruskis were going to fire a nuke at the moon just to best the yanks but some scientist managed to convince them they could drastically change the global tieds by changing the moons orbit. Crazy Russians.
He and his closest party members were obsessed with the ocult and did admittedly spend a LOT on rediculous things like the spear of destiny. But the major undoing was the dedication to the final solution. Japan's attack on america and the subsequent loss at Stalingrad were all related. America entered the war. Gave Russia a fuck load of good machinery and cars. Russia pushed Germany back while Germany still through money at the final solution. Seriously I don't know how many more times I can explain it.
>9/11 was an inside job
Biggest military in the world lets two planes fly outside their route right into the middle of the financial heart of America. Ok, sure.
>shills planted in online forums
>Feminism is being co-opted by the elite to turn men into huge sissies that can be more easily controlled and turning women into hyper sensible hate machines that can only play the role of victims
Those gas chamber doors are pretty small, leading me to assume the chambers themselves were small.
Why didn't they create house sized gas chambers that were connected by hallway to a furnace room?
For killing so many jews, the nazis weren't very good at it.
>Examples of this phenomenon occuring on Earth
From the very source you've supplied: "Untrained observers, like the Moon Hoax advocates, are once again expecting the Moon to be exactly like the Earth..." I had a longer explanation, but fuck it I really don't care.
>What part of the mission do you think would have required a more powerful computer system to accomplish?
And why would you think that a system less sophisticated than a coffee maker would be sufficient to reach the moon?
>found evidence of the success of the landing afterward
I don't suppose you'd be referring to the Lunar Laser Ranging experiment by any chance? If so, I have some bad news for you, it's call National Geographic December 1966 Issue. Specifically, the article entitled "The Laser's Bright Magic" by Thomas Maloy. Yeah, that's right 1966. Three *years* before the (supposedly) first moon landing you could point a laser at the moon and guess what...
Or are you talking about the "new" "cleaned up" photos that have just come out in the recent years? It's not like anyone's had nearly 50 years to tamper with those at all.
>From the very source you've supplied: "Untrained observers, like the Moon Hoax advocates, are once again expecting the Moon to be exactly like the Earth..." I had a longer explanation, but fuck it I really don't care.
Right, I was just mentioning that the whole "background looking the same from different distances" thing has occurred in locations on this planet too. It just doesn't happen with really long distances because of differences between the moon and earth.
>And why would you think that a system less sophisticated than a coffee maker would be sufficient to reach the moon?
Modern coffee makers are literally computers, so that's not quite fair is it? And no, I don't believe there was any process during the first mission that required a more powerful machine. You'd think that if the hoax is real, they could have just made up higher specifications just in case, right? That doesn't really make sense.
>I don't suppose you'd be referring to the Lunar Laser Ranging experiment by any chance (...) Or are you talking about the "new" "cleaned up" photos that have just come out in the recent years
I'm talking about SELENE, Chandrayaan 1, Chang'e 2, the Space Transmissions Corps, Kettering Grammar School, Bochum Observatory, Jodrell Bank Observatory, Larry Baysinger's recordings, and other independent photographers.
Some of those accounts did come from recent years, but now you're going into a whole new territory by implying that all these nations around the world are in on it with NASA.
Oh, and by the way...
>by Mike Bara
Just so we're clear it's not just a different guy with the same name.
>MICHAEL BARA [email protected]
Your source is *very* reliable. /sarcasm
Recorded evidence of lighter, disturbed soil around the *Apollo 15* site.
>Chang'e 2 (2010)
"Claims to have spotted traces of the Apollo landings, though the relevant imagery has not been publicly identified."
>Various Independents (Post Apollo 11)
*On later missions*, NASA released information to the public explaining where third party observers could expect to see the various craft at specific times according to scheduled launch times and planned trajectories
>Kettering Grammar School (1972)
"Picks up *Apollo 17* on its way to the Moon."
>Not sure what you're trying to say here
I'm pointing out the fact that this man finds no fault with the pictures, yet believes in (or at least sells) Ancient Aliens bullshit and claims they're on the moon to boot.
>Some type of nuclear war ~4000 years ago.
>we've been in WW3 for a few years now
I've never googled it. I'm sure there's a whole cult of believers of this.. I just assume it on my own.
Also, assessing one's credentials/background is essential to understand how potentially informed one is on any given subject.
Mike Bara - Former CAD-CAM technician, holds no degree (aside from a HS diploma) in *any* field.
>believing anything mike bara says.
Yeah, you're right. I misread those accounts as witnesses of all missions. A better example specifically for Apollo 11 would be the Madrid Apollo Station or the MSFNs that were run by local citizens rather than NASA.
>assessing one's credentials/background is essential to understand how potentially informed one is on any given subject.
>I'm pointing out the fact that this man finds no fault with the pictures, yet believes in (or at least sells) Ancient Aliens bullshit and claims they're on the moon to boot.
Again, why does that disprove his explanation of your image? Would you like me to paraphrase it if you don't like it the way he said it? You're not trying to argue against the physics of his explanation, you're just using ad hominems to deny it.
Other reasons for believing your theory would be interesting to hear also, though I might not be able to reply until tomorrow if the thread doesn't 404 before then.
>Extraterrestrials are here.
I've seen a few UFOs.
WTC7 collapse. Still no clear Pentagon attack videos despite being the most secure and camera-covered site in the USA.
That's all the conspiracy I follow intently.
Moon landing was not a hoax. USA had 22 years after the Roswell UFO crash to reverse engineer ET tech into something to get to the moon.
>the holocaust did happen, but was exaggerated to an extent because of post war confusion, people trying to bury their dead/war crimes blamed most things the losing country
>9/11 was allowed to happen. it was done by middle eastern terrorists but the government knew about it or something like that would happen and let it. Sacrifice a few thousand for a war effort they felt necessary
>the media is being pushed or they themselves are pushing for a race war to distract us from bigger issues while they cash in on the views and it will probably happen within the next few years
Mine are really conspiracy theories, more like social commentaries
Not to mention that the Soviets were independently tracking the Apollo missions and monitoring their broadcasts.Triangulation of the signal confirmed the location of the source. If the Soviets wanted to expose the Americans to embarrass them and cost them literally all credibility on the world stage, that was their chance. They couldn't because there were too many places independently monitoring the missions.
Basically, either the Soviets are in on 'the conspiracy" or they happened.
>ad hominems to deny it
Okay, okay. Call ad hominem if you will, but I'm simply stating that he actually provides little (to no) explanation about this.
The claim is that...
"Without the standard visual queues to go by, like haze, they are assuming that the mountains are right on top of the spacecraft. In truth, they aren't. As you can see from this EVA map for Apollo 15, the Apennine mountains (which are the ones in the pictures) are about 4 km away."
1) No EVA map is provided.
2) Claiming to gauge the distance "due to (lack of) haze" is silly. Why? For the same reason one can say "those are farther away than they appear" is also the same one can say "those are closer than they appear."
3) "Change in lighting" is not a valid claim to state anything. Time as much as distance can change the lighting. Claiming either as proof is bogus.
>Madrid Apollo Station or the MSFNs
Neither the Madrid Apollo Station or the MSFN are independent. The Madrid Apollo Station is actually part of the DSN (NASA Deep Space Network) which is run by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. The MSFN was built by NASA, no MSFN was constructed independently. That really doesn't matter anyway, because the MSFN didn't exist in until 1971. Pre-1971 it was the STADAN (Spacecraft Tracking and Data Acquisition Network) which only had the capability to track objects in low Earth orbit, specifically unmanned satellites.
>The jews control the world
It's obvious, so much holocaust propaganda
>Race mixing to end the white race
Look at European major cities
>The jews are behind race mixing
Barbara Lerner Spectre
I'm not a Holocaust denier, but am I the only one here who thinks it's fucked up that there are laws that prevent discussion of it?
That's the complete opposite of free speech, and I find it crazy.
It sounds like you're misunderstanding his explanation more than anything.
>Claiming to gauge the distance "due to (lack of) haze" is silly
That's exactly what he's saying. The conspiracy believers tried to use the lack of haze as evidence for these locations being nearer than they are when there wouldn't be an earth-like haze on the moon
>"Change in lighting" is not a valid claim to state anything
The 'dark area' and 'light area' were just ways to refer to different areas of the hill in the images. The actual argument was that the first image very obviously looks like a cropped version of the second, not an identical background from the same distance.
>The Madrid Apollo Station is actually part of the DSN
Not at the time of Apollo 11's launch. They became part of the DSN later on.
>The MSFN was built by NASA
The MSFN stations were widely run by NASA. However, several MSFN stations were run almost completely by local employees that previously had no connection with NASA.
>because the MSFN didn't exist in until 1971
What? The MSFN stations have been in use since the Mercury flight in 1963
Mike Bara's merits are not the topic of this argument. His explanation for the images previously posted, however, are part of it.
Won't be able to reply again until tomorrow.
>The fact that the Apollo computer system had 64kb memory and operated at roughly 0.043MHz.
The computers in the vehicles weren't doing the heavy lifting, though. Trajectory calculations and course corrections were being crunched back at Mission Control and the results were being transmitted to the Command Modules by radio. If I recall correctly, the original trajectory calculations were handled by the Department of Energy's CDC 6600 supercomputer, which was comparable in processing power to an early 1990s era pentium.
The Holocaust was happened. All efforts to deny it are because people are not willing to admit humans can be so cruel to each other or to go along willing with it. This guy was an SS officer who confessed and went to prison in 2015 to put to rest the notion a government would never engage in systematic murder.
Apollo 11 scandal
Mass Global Surveillance
Human Evolutionary/De-Evolutionary Schism (Master vs Slave social castes)
>Deliberate poisoning and debasement of our health and home dictated via corporate government
Weren't the camps in German occupied Poland? I've always thought 6 mil was a bit ridiculous as well but there was a few "mass graves" though probably not as big as they blew it up to be. I just wish there was more information and evidence. Actually I just wish they won the war but what can ya do
It's it really? Why else would we want to deny something with so much evidence from both sides? 6 million people weren't gassed to death for the hell of it, but wayyyy more than 6 million were killed by slave labour starvation firing squads racist mobs and all the other fun things that come with fascism.
Yeah, they always try to make it seem like the whole death count is portrayed happened exclusively in gas chambers when in reality it was a combination of methods; It's the epitome of straw man arguments.
>the footage all looks fake, and seems to keep pace with movie special effects
You mean the cameras they use in space get better at the same rate as the cameras used on earth? Incredible.
Ayy lmaos are not only real, but have also visited Earth.
But if your in space you are going faster than people on earth and time is therefore going slower. So if you go to space you come back not as old as if you had stayed on earth. So you are from the past using our technology. Illumination
It's more of a curiosity as to what the world would be like because seriously friend, whole thing has gone to shit. Just like Imagine how far Japan could've gone before being stopped or being victorious
>>The Moon landings were faked
>Reason: The existence of the Van Allen belt
Educate yourself man:
That's only true in a country with no free superior education.
I come from a third world country and my university is free. The best umiversities of our country are public and free. Only a handful of private ones are worthy, most are utter shit.
Get your shit together usa.
You do realize the destructive force of a nuclear weapon lessens the further away you are from the center of the explosion right? You know, like literally all explosives. Obviously its not going to obliterate everything within it's blast radius.
i don't get it.
the page linked concludes with:
>Based on my analysis of electrons, protons, and bremsstrahlung, the predicted total dose received by the Apollo 11 astronauts as a consequence of their transits of the Van Allen radiation belts was only about 32 mrem, or 0.016 rads (all from protons ≥100 MeV). This shows that the Apollo trajectories though the VARB were not only survivable, but that the radiation doses received were inconsequential. Of course the VARB were not the only source of radiation to which the crews were exposed. To record the actual skin doses, the astronauts worn dosimeters.
so how exactly does this support the idea that the moon landings were faked?
>Yeah, they always try to make it seem like the whole death count is portrayed happened exclusively in gas chambers when in reality it was a combination of methods;
Oh yeah i forgot. The electrified floors, the diesel fume gas chambers, the dogs, the SS hodor guards rippping babies to shreds with their hands.
So many fantastic way to kill some one... that never happened.
that who "6 million" graphic you like, if you were to read it for yourself, doesn't claim that six million jews were killed at any time before ww2.
it does, in fact, claim that 4.5 million german jews were killed out of six million total during the war. and we know all the dead jews were not german.
so anyway, 4.5 gorillion would not a big enough number for you to acknowledge it was an inexcusable massacre of innocent people, huh?
not that your cherry picking of random articles ever meant anything in the first place but i hate how you people pull it out of your moldy assholes constantly as if it's proof of anything but your own distrust of jews.
At least read the article, you glib motherfuckers. The only "torture" Groening was subjected to was listening to clueless dipshits like you denying events he'd personally witnessed.
>Auschwitz death toll is lowered
>Total death toll is not lowered
oy vey, luckily those evil Germans can't talk about it because then we throw them in jail.
>Could it be because Stalin didn't kill Jews?
Could it be that Stalin's killer where jews? >>17329482
>why does everyone always talk about Hitler when Stalin killed far more?
because no one tries to deny that stalin murdered a bunch of people so what is there to argue about. you know of it and i know of it so obviously people do talk about it. but it has nothing to do with the conversation at all and you're only deflecting from the fact that you find mass murder excusable as long as it's perpetrated against jews.
>inb4 SIX GORILLAS
> ...cackle...claim that 4.5 million german jews... cackle....
By census of humans in 16 July of year 1933 onto land of Germany was resident 503900 jews.By data from nation unite jews from Germany from 1933 to 10 January of year 1941 from Germany get out 347183 jews and members of their families.
probably the same reason hitler killed them. because they're different than the majority so they're easy scapegoats when things get shitty, whether they're responsible for it or not.
Because those minorities have no power.
Pretty much this. It's kind of obvious that the attacks on Jews has always been about power and money, not race or religion.
People are easily fooled though. If you label someone a racist nobody will stand near them.
>By census of humans in 16 July of year 1933 onto land of Germany was resident 503900 jews.By data from nation unite jews from Germany from 1933 to 10 January of year 1941 from Germany get out 347183 jews and members of their families.
Nice obfuscation, asshole. What about the census records for Austria and Poland?
>9/11 was an inside joke
Too many coincidences, too much weirdness, dancing Israelites, missing money, insurance policies that include coverage for terrorist attacks
>mkultra is still running and wildly successful
Mkultra has been brought into the mainstream, through tv programming, a doped water supply, the pharmaceutical industry and the illuminati. The tv and video game programming acts as the content and trigger, the water supply and pharmaceutical industry keep the population docile and open to these suggestions and triggers. Things like sandyhoax, aurora, South Carolina etc are all events that came to fruition through this proces. There is a secondary scam being run that uses the same tactics in a softer manner to shape the discourse and course of the political climate in this country. The events that play out in front of us some times may have never happened at all, or may have happened in an entirely different way
>the Mandella effect is a result of the convergence or possibly divergence of one or more timeline in a quantum suicide type event
Global nuclear war, genocide etc have caused a divergence in such a large manner that it's no longer where you put your keys that has changed, but the location of a continent, or the title of a children's book you used to read has changed. Those of us experiencing these changes died in our original timeline and have found ourselves here.
Oh, so you're 100% racially pure, huh? Care to put your DNA where your mouth is?
I'd far rather be labeled a mongrel for my DNA than judged a subhuman pig based off what I've chosen to believe.
>What's your lower threshold for acknowledging a genocide campaign?
I won't acknowledge anything as long as people are being thrown in jail for questioning the 6 million number.
The whole thing is tainted by heaps of obviously falsified evidence and ridiculous stories. I'll take it seriously when there is a serious revision done.
So i guess i won't take it seriously in my lifetime.
Rumour said. Before one-and-a-half month to the crash the Twin Towers insured against the act of terror to $3.6 billions.
>misunderstanding his explanation
>That's exactly what he's saying.
>The actual argument was that the first image very obviously looks like a cropped version of the second.
No, the actual argument was... "it's clear when you look at the un-cropped version of the *pictures* that they were not taken in the same spot. The *second picture* without the LM in it was *probably taken several hundred feet to the right of the first one*"
If you are claiming (and it truly sounds as though you are) that these are indeed one photograph cropped into two pictures, you need to reread your source material. Also, if this is the claim you are making, want to explain why the crosshairs from the two photos (one) aren't in alignment?
>Not at the time of Apollo 11's launch.
"Under an agreement between the governments of Spain and the United States of America, dated 29 January 1964, the National Institute for Aerospace Technology (INTA) and the space agency NASA signed up a contract for the operation and maintenance of the Spanish complex facilities."
"As of December 3, 1958, commissioned by JPL, NASA assumed responsibility for the investigation of the Moon and the Solar System by unmanned vehicles. Therefore, most of the functions of the Madrid complex are related to instrumental support communications with the vehicles and probes included in the controlled JPL space programs."
Source; MDSCC's own website
>The MSFN stations were widely run by NASA.
>The MSFN stations have been in use since the Mercury flight in 1963.
Right, they did. I have to admit I was unintentionally misleading on this. I meant to say that the MSFM that tracked the Apollo missions were built by NASA.
The August 15th Network Controllers Mission Report on Apollo 11 outlined how the MSFN had "major system problems" resulting in a slew of failures that needed to be corrected by the next mission (Apollo 12).
"The technical facts of life were these: the radars of the Mercury and Gemini Networks obviously could not track two spacecraft orbiting the Moon a quarter-million miles away: neither could the small MSFN telemetry antennas hope to pick out the telemetry and voice messages in the weak signals arriving from the vicinity of the Moon."
"To meet these requirements, the MSFN used a combination of resources. A Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) system called "Unified S-band", or USB, was selected for Apollo communications, which allowed tracking, ranging, telemetry, and voice to all use the same S band transmitter. Near-Earth tracking was provided by upgrading the same networks used for Mercury and Gemini."
The STADAN was run/owned by NASA.
"In May 1971 STADAN was consolidated with the MSFN to form the Spaceflight Tracking and Data Network."
(That I'm aware of) Bochum produced audio only, and just a snippet thereof of Apollo 11. This audio was one sided, it didn't include Mission Control (ground) because they could not recieve those signals.
They did intercept some television signals from *Apollo 16* which are in the observatory's archive.
Also want to point out that Bochum was in West Germany. Right, no way that could be related to fucking with Soviet Russia at all.
>Jodrell Bank Observatory
Equipment provided by the USAF. Still not in any way a smoking gun.
Do your own research on this one, I'm not your goddamned search engine.
>Larry Baysinger's recordings
Like Bochum, just a snippet of (crappy) audio. Baysinger himself has stated that he wasn't sure if he was actually reciveing transmissions from the moon or a local television station that was broadcasting the landing.
Said this to Saudi BinLadin Group (SBG), to kinsmen and brothers of Osama bin Laden.
Said this to Geneva, Switzerland to kinsmen of Osama bin Laden from Saudi Investment Company.
terrorism, political scandals, continued proxy wars over seas, the usual
think about it, we live in a very social media savy age that loves to exploit problems and issues. all things considered we are doing very very well as a generation, but you all these protesters and groups trying to act like we're some third world oppressive shit hole that needs a revolution and we don't. Blow up he small problems that are never going to get fixed anyway, keep the people occupied and you let the big dogs keep doing what they've been doing
>a waste of time
It's not. If the holocaust is revealed and accepted to have been fabricated then the Jews have a LOT to pay up. The entire political system of Germany and Israel changed because of the accusations.
That guy is fucking retarded ''hurr durr impossible to keep secret so its can't be a secret''
Its not a secret any more, every one knows that 9/11 was bullshit and there are have TONS of whistle blowers.
And just like that his ''debunking with math'' idea falls apart.
Just out of curiosity, what is it that's supposed to make researching the concentration camps so hard?
I mean, having skimmed through the info myself just now, I can see how someone trying to build a case against a genocide campaign might spin the lack of execution records as being some sort of "smoking gun," but at the end of the day, whether it's from a gas chamber or a combination of forced labor, starvation, and illness(a far more economic route than gassing able-bodied people, in my opinion), the fact remains that millions of people were rounded up and deprived of their property and freedom sans due process, and shipped off to die based solely off their ethnicity, their sexual orientation, or their politics.
>Also what the fuck are you talking about?
I just think that you could stand to be more empathetic
I mean jews are clearly trying to destroy all the races, not just Whites. Why are you trying to make it all about you?
>Being a visitor of the internet with quality education in structural engineering, explosive devices, fire prodedures in high rise buildings and the fact I get most of my information about military stuff from films. WTC was totally blown up by the government! With this mind set, I believe my government is an omnipotent institution! If they're willing to do this to their own people to justify a war, what will they do to the bad guys? Well, this just makes me feel much more secure knowing how powerful my government is. This is because, despite evidence from educated men and women, countless footage, explanations and recreations of the events of 9/11, if the USA government didn't do it... That means... Shock. Horror. I am not as safe as I thought I was! I mean, next you'll tell me people were killed on the USA mainland by enemy weaponry in WW2! Of course they weren't, my schools tell me they haven't! It's not like the USA has had a program of propaganda to reinforce their superiority complex for the last 70 years. It's not like military funding programs like the F35 are propaganda pieces due to the fact the F35, despite costing many times more than the Boeing design, performed exactly the same. Yet F35 looked 'cooler' so it's totally better.
>I am smart, you are dumb, I've seen YouTube videos and read books, published by people to make money from gullible fucks like myself, that totally doesn't weaken the entire book!
The Allies had concentration camps too, including the Gulag and Japanese-American internment camps. Hell, the US still has Guantanamo Bay open till this day. There's a stark moral difference between camps which are designed to sequester and contain (potential) enemy combatants, and camps designed for intentional and systematic extermination of its inhabitants.
Correct. There weren't 6 million victims, there were 17.5 million. A quarter of that, which is what the records support, would be 4.8 million, and that covers only those that actually made it to the camps, not those that died elsewhere by other means, be that method starvation and sickness in the ghettos or lined up and shot by the roadside.
At what point do the conditions in a concentration camp deteriorate to such a degree that they become de facto death camps? Do you still keep shipping people to them when the outcome is almost inevitable death? At what point do the lines between the two types of camps become a merely semantic distinction?
Again, you misunderstand.
Assuming you're the same guy, you said exactly what Mike Bara was saying in that paper. That trying to gauge the distance based on the haze is silly. You're agreeing with him.
>If you are claiming (and it truly sounds as though you are) that these are indeed one photograph cropped into two pictures
What the hell? My usage of the term 'cropped' is just the best way to describe how part of one image is visible in the other. Not to be taken literally, although I can see how you would make that mistake if you're skimming my posts. Which is exactly what you seem to be doing.
>"Under an agreement between the governments of Spain and the United States of America, dated 29 January 1964, the National Institute for Aerospace Technology (INTA) and the space agency NASA signed up a contract for the operation and maintenance of the Spanish complex facilities."
>"As of December 3, 1958, commissioned by JPL, NASA assumed responsibility for the investigation of the Moon and the Solar System by unmanned vehicles. Therefore, most of the functions of the Madrid complex are related to instrumental support communications with the vehicles and probes included in the controlled JPL space programs."
Right, they still weren't part of the DSN ( http://www.honeysucklecreek.net/other_stations/fresnedillas/index.html ).
>Nope, they're all crappy, you can't use those!
Your integrity is now in question, as I thought you were more open minded before.
>Right, no way that could be related to fucking with Soviet Russia at all.
That would help my case if they were, would it not?
>Do your own research on this one, I'm not your goddamned search engine.
Getting pretty jumpy for this being a peaceful intellectual discussion.
>That would help my case if they were, would it not?
clearly soviet russia was in on the consiracy
they wanted to humiliate themselves on a global scale, it all makes perfect sense
>At what point do the conditions in a concentration camp deteriorate to such a degree that they become de facto death camps? Do you still keep shipping people to them when the outcome is almost inevitable death? At what point do the lines between the two types of camps become a merely semantic distinction?
The vast majority of the deaths were probably towards the very end of the war when supply lines were being disrupted, not when they were imprisoning new people and the Red Cross was still monitoring the conditions. The majority of deaths up until then would have been the result of disease such as typhus, which is a common occurrence anywhere large numbers of people congregate.
>what statutes are you referring to? in what country? is there any caselaw to back them up?
Key word there being "probably." Also, there is evidence to support massive amounts of body disposal going on as early as 1941. Heck, the very first one they had at Auschwitz could dispose of as many as 340 bodies a day, somewhere around 10,000 monthly, and it was dwarfed in capacity by the subsequent krematoria II-V that came into use in the latter years of the war. That's a lot of bodies, especially considering that the Nazi's own correspondence points to the typhus outbreak as having come under control circa October of 1942.
>Key word there being "probably."
Not really. I just meant it wasn't a certainty because very little can be certain.
10,000 monthly doesn't sound all that much if we're talking about systematic extermination. Sounds like a reasonable figure for natural causes in a labor camp near a war zone. Red Cross numbers confirm this.
>honestly its a waste of time to debate the subject
The truth doesn't fear investigation.
Why is this the only historical event we aren't allowed to question the authenticity of?
Apparently the numbers released by the Red Cross and the East German government put the total deaths in all the camps combined, which included Gypsies, Communists, homosexuals, etc., at 272,000 and 282,000 respectively. The image I posted is the updated Red Cross numbers from the 70s. As I was saying, those numbers don't seem to indicate a systematic extermination, at least not a very efficient one.
>I didn't say exactly what i just said.
Seriously?! Fuck this, I'm out. Good luck with your autism.
>Climate Change is real but it's not man made at all, people just want the public to think it is
Reason: The Government and other groups want to make money off of it and place carbon taxes while also discrediting oil and coal companies. Also, Climategate was faked because of someone faking documents from the Heartland institute.
>smoking isn't actually a major health hazard and the Government and other health groups have successfully demonized tobacco and will eventually do the same to weed even though they're both harmless. I think that some Tobacco industry documents were also likely faked to paint them as more deceptive than they actually were
Reason: The Feds want to assert more control over the populace and fine/tax smokers and succeed in social engineering by denormalizing smoking.
>cocaine and heroin aren't earth shattering and supremely damaging drugs to the mind and body, but the government wants you to think they are
Reason: CIA has teamed up with drug cartels to make ungodly amounts of cash, making these drugs safer and legal would result in a loss of power.
Jew Degenerates deleted my post. Trying to silence the truth.
I posted that my 3 conspiracy truths are:
1. Filthy jews crucified jesus.
2.Filthy jews established world banks to enslave the people with fraudulent debt.
3.Filthy jews established pornography to undermine our great people's morality, and pervert our youth. Thus undermining humanities great future.
Fuck filthy jew scum, them Anti christ degenerates.
Even the word for it sounds obvious.
You can't expect for me to believe you people actually believe a hollow story on cost of 6 million lives.
yeah, im fucking sick of the arguing, i just want to fucking talk about conspiracies and other such fucking things this board is supposed to be dedicated to, not "hurr durr da jus, jidf detected >imbying hitLer is still dead
FUCK OFFFF REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
JFK Killed by Communist spies: Oswald killed by commie jew right before speaking
Communism is still a large plot to overthrow the US: Mcarthy was generally right
>people still actually believe in the holocaust
o y v e y
I don't believe 99% of the shit on /x/. There is no proof of ANY systematic killings of Jews in Nazi, Germany.
Go ahead and provide a picture of Jews being killed, cremated, or buried in the ways of a holocaust and not typhus. I'll be waiting.
>overthrow the US black rooster. Stop domination North America continent over whole world of Earth.
I am so happy that this thread is near the bump limit
Soon we can make a fave conspiracy &why thread that's not like "list three & prove it!!"
There's a big difference between deaths and death records, which is what that document is referencing. It's more than a bit disingenuous to present it as a death tally, tantamount, in fact, to finding a corpse and blithely rationalizing, "This can't be a corpse, because there's no death certificate."
Here's several references that I dubiously hope you'll read at length, all of them in support of the historical truth of the camps.
Here's an interesting book I'm now in the course of reading. It's a rather amazing tale of unwarranted hubris, glory-seeking, and intellectual cowardice that also happens to highlight the dangers of denial legislation. What we're not free to ridicule in the street, we unduly legitimize in the court of law.
Here's a transcript of David Irving, one of the semi-sacred cows of the revisionist/denialist camp making an ass of himself on Australian radio.
Here's Irving getting BTFO in a libel suit he himself brought against Penguin Books.
And here's the NOVA special they put together about it.
"For it is the doom of men that they forget" - Merlin
the thing is, there's no direct witnesses of gassing etc (like Sonderkommando). It's all "I knew a guy" or "I saw a guy" or "I met a guy" or "it's implied he was doing it".
The only guy that has a modicum of firsthand knowledge (an artist or something) of the event is embellishing it or just lying. I've read about it in a documents of one British Holocaust denier's, who is also a historian, trial.
All detailsthat made his testimony a blatant lie were ignored by officials as "he remebers it SLIGHTLY wrong, but still, there were mass genocide using Zyclon B. We are sure of it. It's documented based on this (his earlier) testimony".
Basically a vicious cycle.
Did you know, that statistics of all camps are gradually lowered into oblivion, tablets changed at night?
I believe that max. 2 mln of Jews died during War, but a half of them were Poles, Ukrainians and Russians. Causes of death? Natural reasons, elements, famine, plague and mass executions.
Just like Poles, Russians etc. who died in higher numbers.
I find it "weird" that Holocaust counts only Jews. It's like only their lives matter.
They have testimony from a few Sonderkommandos and hundreds of survivors. The only real reason that the Jews get "top billing" is that the only other group that appears to have been singled out for "special treatment" on a purely racial basis were the Romani.
Some pictures taken clandestinely:
>There's a big difference between deaths and death records, which is what that document is referencing.
The document I posted is referencing the total number of people they believed died in the camps, not the number of corpses they found. The numbers were later inflated despite no new evidence coming forward to give reason to adjust those figures.
>It's more than a bit disingenuous to present it as a death tally, tantamount, in fact, to finding a corpse and blithely rationalizing, "This can't be a corpse, because there's no death certificate."
Never claimed this.
Incorrect. That's the total number of "death certificates" they have on record. In other words, those are the records of the people that were their forced labor, not the people who were deemed "unfit" and sent straight to their deaths.
What you've got there is the tally of people who died as a result of disease, exhaustion, and starvation - the people who showed up still fit enough to work, so that's what they did.
Nope, you are incorrect. Those were the the original figures that the Red Cross came up with based on the evidence at the time. There is no additional evidence indicating more people died by other means. You're claiming that there are prisoners who died who are unaccounted for. Then how do we know such people even existed in the first place?
>The ICRC wasnt even allowed into the camps for fucks sake.
Excuse me? They most certainly were allowed into German camps by the 1929 Geneva military convention. You must be thinking of the USSR which neither ratified the Convention nor let the ICRC in to document conditions.
"The truth is that the State is a conspiracy designed not only to exploit, but above all to corrupt its citizens ... Henceforth, I shall never serve any government anywhere."
In the past 50 years we have undeniable proof of 2 wars that the American government started by lying to its citizens (escalation of Vietnam War proved by statements from Secretary of Defense McNamara and the 2nd Iraq War instigated by the lies from Colin Powell on WMDs.)
I wouldn't doubt that every single American war since 1900 has been instigated do to lies and b.s.
Why don't you call them ask *them* what that tally represents?
PDF of the ICRC reporting how much camp access they had during the war:
(Pic related) originates from a request in 1979 for official(as in original) death records(note the date on the upper right) and furthermore is a tally of only official records housed in West Germany, which didn't even exist as a nation before 1948.
Here's some translations I found on <another site> of this and another related document from 1984:
And here's a link to page 641 of their official report, issued in 1948.
Having now invoked "the site that shall not be named," I shall honorably fall upon my sword.
Be sure to pay special attention to the fact that it was a documented practice to neither "book in" anyone not chosen for use as slave labor nor record their deaths. They tracked their labor force(as anyone with a brain would) and sent the rest off to their deaths to (borrowing a rather dark Dickensian turn of phrase) "decrease the surplus population."
Cling to that one piece of paper though, if you must. It's not like there's not millions more pages and hours of testimony that invalidate your stance.
Yes, this was the estimated number of people who died there, just like I said. Don't see what your point is. Nothing you said in your posts contradicts anything I said.
>sent the rest off to their deaths to
No evidence. Official reports say otherwise, sorry.
>Cling to that one piece of paper though, if you must. It's not like there's not millions more pages and hours of testimony that invalidate your
kek, if you say so. I'll go with the numbers that the ICRC were reporting since 1948.
the last one I completely agree with, it's super obvious when you go on social media and watch both sides of the #blacklivesmatter debate devolve into nonsense whenever a black person is killed by police. left and right news media jumps on the right cases immediately when they know the situation is vague enough to exploit to their demographic, hoping to cause enough unrest so they can then report on some lazy college protest or ghetto kids knocking over a trash can and frame it as a riot or whatever.
The biggest issue that every nation in the world should be focusing on is climate change, pure and simple. The biggest portion of our funding should be spent on renewable energy, there's so much evidence that humanity will be fucked in just a matter of years. Then again, the overpopulation of the world is another whole deal so I think it's likely that world governments are banking on a cataclysmic event that will wipe out a significant number of people but leave enough to rebuild civilization after they come out of their bunkers.
Here's a good discussion about the document I'm "clinging to":
It goes into in-depth detail about the ICRC investigation during the war. It totally supports the 1979 update document I've posted. So, in other words, the ICRC kept the same number of casualties for literally decades after the war until the numbers were suddenly inflated for no good reason. Or, according to you, supposed eyewitness testimony decades later somehow trumps wartime investigations from a neutral organization for... reasons.
How's this for a reason? The ICRC isn't and never was in the business of coming up with an accurate tally. In their own words, the ICRC
"Never published—or even compiled—statistics of this kind which are being falsely attributed to it."
Going on to state its purpose was:
"to help war victims, not to count them"
As for the population figures on that site, would they happen to have scans of those entire pages handy? This link explains, better than I can, the flaws in citing the particular cherry-picked data they're using:
In essence, they're using pre-war estimates, war being, you know, hell and all.
>In essence, they're using pre-war estimates, war being, you know, hell and all.
No they aren't. The figures are based on close monitoring of the camp populations while it was going on. Figures like that were tracked for pragmatic reason. It makes total sense that they would keep track of how many casualties there to make sure the situation remained stable. You can see in the article how they became concerned near the end of the war how the prisoners weren't getting proper supplies because of Allied bombing.