I'll start this for a change.
>Temple of Solomon the King (AKA K's Mega, probably the largest occult library on the web, compiled by our very own Ape of Thoth)
Don't have the rest of the links, such as Surgo's library, so I'll let him post that himself.
Going to get busy with the Key of Solomon over the next week or so, I'll let you know what comes out of it.
Check the mega link in the OP post, plenty of stuff there.
Try 'Oven-Ready Chaos' by Phil Hine, or 'Liber Null & Psychonaut' by Peter Carroll, both classics.
Also a guy called Bluefluke doing a training manual on Deviantart. No idea how useful it is, but give it a look (pic related is an example)
>Oven-Ready Chaos' by Phil Hine
Thank you! I've already checked the training manual, and I'm doing my exercises to achieve gnosis state (which I actually can achieve since I was a girl, but I cannot prolong it for more than a few seconds).
I will certainly download the other two books.
Are there any other ways to summon goetia other than the ridiculously insanely detailed way? I need ones power and I only have our band practice space free for an hour alone.
>haven't been on /x/ in almost two years
>come back to see if it's improved at all
>faggots still roleplaying about magical powers they don't have
do you seriously look back on the wasted years and not have a twinge of regret over what you could have accomplished instead?
Church doesn't work and it's cheaper and more fun than therapy with some quack being memed by his own models and gurus. Why pay out when you can do it yourself. The drugs are a hell of a lot better on top of that.
So I started reading Collin Low's Introduction to the Kabbalah. You guy's have any thoughts on it? Shit makes a lot of sense actually.
They are supposedly to be perfectly happy working in an enochian ritual. Trippy's memoir "the black lodge of santa cruze" talks about it a bit.
I'm enjoying it at the moment. Going at it through the works of andrews and regardie but it's a lot of fun and doesn't require to much eyerolling to read though.
Your pic related is actually quite good and entertaining. I discovered it a few months back. It's like porn to me. I read a bit and it makes me wanna actually do it instead of reading more.
Look for "Pop Magic" by Grant Morrison, also. A fun read without a bunch of esoteric mumbo-jumbo and really helps a person realize that, whether they realize it or not, they are always practicing magic, it's the intent and focus which are important.
This is also a very informational, entertaining, and mind-opening book. Here's a link to the PDF that you can read online. Buy the book if you can. It's good to have on hand. It's also free of the layers of OOOOoooOooOoo that reading about Kabbalah/Qabalah/Cahbahlah/Cqkhabawlawh can be notorious for.
>Lon Milo was on Midnight in the Desert
What are some non degenerate sources of magick teachings? I want to into magick but i stumbled on a book on /fringe/ that talked about getting facefucked to improve your practice. And then they reccomend shit eating Crowley or the lard man Bardon or that guy who frauded people by writing under different personas. Can you reccomend works by succesful, well adjusted, morally honest people?
Looks like you fell for a whole pile of memes, friend.
In either case, go with the actual real source material. Mandean chant. Hindi mantra. Greek Magickal Papyri oriented around Greek Sacred Law (both of which are in Euro/Grimoires folders).
You don't see that all of these people tried to teach you a different way of abstracting the world. For instance: to be sexually active in a perverted manner will lead to a different view on the world in general.
It is meant to tear down a wall you built in your head about what is correct and what is not. They all are legit but I wouldn't recommend such strong practises to anyone who is emotionally too attached to his honor.
These techniques come from a time where literally nobody was already a sexually deviant, freed from morality.
What do you expect? I couldn't draw any gain from these either but some people can.
I was mostly joking, though on the flipside the theory can still be put to use by complete deviants by just having loving normal vanilla sex in lieu of hanging upside down gagging and screaming or whatever.
It's strange that I've always thought of Death as male but thinking back on my experiences with it, when I have embraced it, it is decidedly female. The living void beyond all things from which they sprang and whence they return held me and spit me back out.
What does it mean?
it means you're assigning gender constructions to immortal and timeless conceptual forces of nature?
whether male or female, masculine or feminine, I think Death with a capitol D is probably beyond those limitations and structures.
Check the Google Drive.
>You don't see that all of these people tried to teach you a different way of abstracting the world.
I would say they teach various levels, rather than ways, of abstracting the world.
But yes, agreed otherwise.
>They all are legit but I wouldn't recommend such strong practises to anyone who is emotionally too attached to his honor.
That I find questionable. Honor is also an abstraction.
What would you consider to be that?
It means that your particular extent of abstraction is rather limited.
>What would you consider to be that?
someone for whom, "to be sexually active in a perverted manner" wouldn't feel any alteration in their perceptions.
I.E. someone for whom, 'perversion' is already an abstracted and mutable concept, and what most might consider 'perverse' is commonplace. Every person will have a different perception of what 'perversion' is of course.
I was simply trying to state that the theory (if not the specified practice) is still sound and is about altering your perception of how you view a fundamental element of existence.
Well, you're missing the point. It doesn't matter what action you take, as long as it changes things around inside you. Hell, you could just be breathing for all it matters, and suddenly have realizations and go through powerful transformative events, just like that.
I can't really call it Death. It wasn't so much the psychopomp as the act of dying, it's process, and what lies outside. The thing either avoided or embraced. It was in those moments that I saw the infinite void that is the mother of all. The masculine of the dance is elsewhere, for lack of fancy words that don't explain it any better.
Ever since I went this local "cursed" stream there have been too many coincidences in my life and once when I was trying to sleep I wished there was someone to cuddle with and then I felt something holding on to me I turned around and I could just make out a small brown hand letting go
What's that all about and what can I do about it?
>It doesn't matter what action you take, as long as it changes things around inside you
That's actually exactly what I was saying, Im not sure I expressed myself clearly enough. I was saying "if 'deviant' sex doesnt change you around inside, try 'normal' sex to achieve it"
I was supporting that the theory is sound, no matter what actions you are taking to change your perceptions.
>I was saying "if 'deviant' sex doesnt change you around inside, try 'normal' sex to achieve it"
I don't think what you do is relevant. I think what happens inside is.
So if you can't make change with what you have, you better start making change instead of blaming it on what you do.
Why do you keep repeating exactly what anon is saying, except in a way that makes you sound right and him wrong? Perhaps you should take your own advice and make some change you egotistical fuck.
Because Anon is missing the point.
It's not about trying different things in order to cause change within yourself because you're doing different things.
It's about causing change within yourself *regardless* of what you're doing.
The core idea being: if you can't change by yourself, having kinky sex won't help you one tiny bit.
It's a cybernetic system. Something has to change and what causes it is irrelevant. Which side enacts the change doesn't matter as it happens internally regardless. On top of that, there is only one whole and not these illusory parts. You are both right in that you are half wrong.
so if Im understanding you properly, what you are saying is
"it doesnt matter what you do or dont do, you should be able to fundamentally altar your perceptions of the world with or without action at will"?
If that is what you're saying, how is anyone ever supposed to (or indeed why should they) ever take any action at all if it will never help them change?
>"if you can't change by yourself"
is someone who chooses an action with the intent of changing themselves NOT changing themselves by themselves? Surely you dont think I meant to imply its the sexual partners presence that is changing their perspective?
You know, I believe I misconstrued your context.
What you are meaning to say, I believe, is that you should be able to find change in any action.
That I agree with entirely, and I think the entire point of the 'deviant' sex or whatever other methods are being discussed here, is that certain actions contain more potential for change than other actions, depending on the person, and their interpretation.
I believe, masters of the past have encouraged or promoted certain actions, because of their potential for change within their actors, in favor of other actions with less potential.
>It's a cybernetic system.
You're thinking "mechanistic and logical". I know for certain that I don't have any electronics in my body.
>Something has to change and what causes it is irrelevant.
>Which side enacts the change doesn't matter as it happens internally regardless.
As demonstrated time and time again, it doesn't "happen internally regardless". You can do all the rituals and not attain a dime's worth of personal transformation, but you can also do nothing and still change due to subconscious processes.
>On top of that, there is only one whole and not these illusory parts. You are both right in that you are half wrong.
Glad to say you're all wrong.
>If that is what you're saying, how is anyone ever supposed to (or indeed why should they) ever take any action at all if it will never help them change?
You don't take action. You act. In a very literal manner, you can change who you are without doing anything (unless you consider "allowing something to happen" to be taking action, in which case, yes).
>is someone who chooses an action with the intent of changing themselves NOT changing themselves by themselves?
No, they are changing themselves by taking action.
>Surely you dont think I meant to imply its the sexual partners presence that is changing their perspective?
Hardly. I think you meant to say that it's the perceived nature of the act which changes their view on the act.
>What you are meaning to say, I believe, is that you should be able to find change in any action.
Let me rephrase that into exactly what I mean:
>You are able to change.
>certain actions contain more potential for change than other actions, depending on the person, and their interpretation.
I don't think so, to be quite honest. Context, perhaps, but otherwise, not really.
RE: Masters. Did they encourage those actions due to their inherent potential, or due to the effect they had on them in particular?
What I was saying is this. There are two ways of going about doing the same thing. Both have an active and passive principle and use the same system but do it differently. The result is the same.
I don't think so, Tim.
Stephen Parkhill has a pretty reasonable (and scientifically supported) explanation in "Answer Cancer". It's the first or second chapter, IIRC. It's in the GDrive.
please understand I am not trying to be argumentative I am attempting to understand you...
>You don't take action. You act
Please explain how you see this semantic difference?
>No, they are changing themselves by taking action.
Is that not exactly what I said? If they are changing themselves, is it not by themselves?
Also above you say one does not take action... are they acting or taking action in order to facilitate this change?
>I think you meant to say that it's the perceived nature of the act which changes their view on the act.
That's actually not what I meant, their view on the act is mostly irrelevant (regardless of what it turns out to be after doing it). If the act cant change more than just their opinion on the act, than its a rather fruitless act.
>You are able to change.
Well I think we've both established that we believe that.
>I don't think so, to be quite honest.
If not, why are certain actions seen as more valuable to facillitate change? I am not saying that there is one set of special actions that facilitate the most change for everyone. I mean to imply that for each person there will be specific acts, which will change over their life, that have more potential for change than others simply because they may lack the perspective or understanding of their own act to change from it. You do not agree with that assessment?
Neither, they encouraged those actions because having had an effect on them in particular, they spoke of them because they could, they cant very well talk about actions they have not taken. They do this either to guide students to similar actions (because they believe they will be universal), or to foster an awareness that certain actions have more potential than others (depending on the person).
I have the distinct feeling that they are one and the same as far as explanations go. It was on my reading list anyway so I might as well. Was it the book the edgy viking wordsmith was constantly referencing?
>Please explain how you see this semantic difference?
Taking action -> emphasis on "taking", which implies that you're "carrying something out", which is a very unfortunate figure of speech, as it suggests effort.
Acting -> doing. Also notice that acting makes you an actor, which is a key concept in all we're talking about. Being an actor makes changing your character much easier than putting effort into carrying out actions.
>Is that not exactly what I said?
>If they are changing themselves, is it not by themselves?
Depends on whether it's by themselves or by taking action.
>Also above you say one does not take action... are they acting or taking action in order to facilitate this change?
Could be either, depends entirely on whether they're masochists or not.
>their view on the act is mostly irrelevant
>If the act cant change more than just their opinion on the act, than its a rather fruitless act.
I don't think that's the case, as opinions are internal constructs, and thus that alone is evidence of change.
> why are certain actions seen as more valuable to facillitate change?
Because people are stupid.
>You do not agree with that assessment?
Nope. I think everyone can change as much as they like as long as they want to.
>Neither, they encouraged those actions because having had an effect on them in particular, they spoke of them because they could, they cant very well talk about actions they have not taken.
>I have the distinct feeling that they are one and the same as far as explanations go. It was on my reading list anyway so I might as well. Was it the book the edgy viking wordsmith was constantly referencing?
I've no idea. It's a worthwhile starter on hypnotherapy, tbqh.
You guys realize by 2025 all of this shit will be public science so you don't have to delve through ancient resources you couldn't personally translate.
Every long post I see is about how saying something can imply which chakra (out of the billions) you would use when speaking about it, which in your minds implies some sort of cohesion when your statement made you sound retarded.
Maybe it is just the low quality questions but I think you guys would benefit from learning physics and quantum biology, the best part of those two things is because nothing has had billions of research other than blacklisted special ops, so noone can be 'wrong' just less probable.
>which is a very unfortunate figure of speech, as it suggests effort.
I understand, it was perhaps ill timed in this conversation on both of our behalves.
>Acting -> doing
>notice that acting makes you an actor, which is a key concept in all we're talking about
also agree, and understand.
>Depends on whether it's by themselves or by taking action.
Oh, I see your point now. All my examples I was presuming acting by themselves. I didnt see your point of view.
>depends entirely on whether they're masochists or not
Because their opinion on the act is secondary. Forming an opinion honestly is inadvisable in my estimation. One does not change through opinion, one changes through action.
>as opinions are internal constructs, and thus that alone is evidence of change.
Assuming of course the opinions were reached through action, and not taking action I agree. But it is the ABILITY to form an opinion that matters, and is change, not the opinion itself. I still think its secondary, you should be able to change your opinion through action, making the opinion itself irrelevant and mutable.
>Because people are stupid.
I think that is needlessly dismissive, they are incapable of finding their way, that doesn't make them stupid, just blind.
>Nope. I think everyone can change as much as they like as long as they want to.
I agree and I'm not sure that has anything to do with my statement. Some actions have inherently more potential for change than others for each individual. Inherently some actions are going to facilitate more change than others for each individual at different times. The goal is to find the change, sometimes its not simple, so other actions will be more conducive.
Thank you, I thought so.
>that doesn't make them stupid, just blind.
I think you're making a simple thing complex. If you want to change, change. There's entirely no need for any action of any sort in order to achieve that.
Sure, if someone wants to take action in order to change, let them, but in my book, that's a waste of time.
Ill refrain from making an opinion on that
>I think you're making a simple thing complex.
>There's entirely no need for any action of any sort in order to achieve that.
It can facilitate it, acting that is.
>if someone wants to take action in order to change, let them, but in my book, that's a waste of time.
I think it depends on which or whos action you are taking and why, but largely I'd agree. Acting however, I don't believe is a waste of time if its facilitating.
>It can facilitate it, acting that is.
Facilitate... sure, I guess. Although the biggest thing in terms of change is wanting it to happen. Once that is in place, change is no further than just putting it into life.
>What if im lazy and want to become active? This change by definition will require taking action.
You're conflating laziness with activity. You can be actively lazy, you can be passively lazy.
Active vs. Passive.
Lazy vs. Hard-working.
Each is an option, and all of those come about as a result of internal conditions. Now, if you want to stop being lazy, you don't do that by just forcing yourself to work, because at best, you'll be passively hard-working, not really engaged or happy about what you're doing.
You want to start with internal change first, and once that's in place, naturally, behaviors follow. So that acting isn't something which you force, or that takes effort; it's something which is entirely natural and smooth in your life.
It's really, really simple, and neuropsch confirms that, on many levels.
So, does any of you guys have some kind of power that the average, non-"occult" human doesn't have or is what you are doing just some form of roleplaying and having fun?
Because it's a bullshit question.
Yes, we can do more than non-trained people can do.
No, it's not roleplaying, nor is it supernatural.
It's just having the knowledge and skill, both of which can be easily learned provided proper resources, which indeed are accessible to everyone in this thread.
How is that a bullshit question? It's like the most logical question someone who isn't involved in the occult could ask.
>Yes, we can do more than non-trained people can do.
>have some kind of power that the average, non-"occult" human doesn't have or is what you are doing just some form of roleplaying and having fun?
>have powers or be roleplaying
Do you see why it's bullshit? It can be neither.
Like make people hallucinate, change their behaviors, heal their emotions, allow them to overcome anxiety, PTSD, phobias, etc. etc. etc.
Agree with Lucid Dreaming, disagree with everything else.
>of or relating to the claimed occurrence of an event or perception without scientific explanation
Religion is paranormal. Creepypasta is about paranormal incidents.
The occult is not paranormal if the occult is shit like hypnosis and dreams. And that's what you just confirmed.
>Only if you're ignorant of normative human behavior.
What? Did you even read the definition of the word paranormal? Let me post it again:
- paranormal: of or relating to the claimed occurrence of an event or perception without scientific explanation
Religion is paranormal. Is there any scientific explanation for god, demons, angels, buddha and what not? Don't think so.
There are plenty for hypnosis though.
Please post the scientific explanations and proof for gods and angels. I will be here waiting.
Hypnosis is a tool of occult work, and is certainly therefore a piece of the doorway to the paranormal (as the occult is the best technology to reliably get into the paranormal, unless you happen to be in the right place at the right time).
>gods & angels
>go into trance
>spontaneously forms communicate messages
>uninformed mind interprets as angels or extraterrestrial or divine beings
Man I cause people to have mystical experiences on a weekly basis.
I can have fantasy conversations with imaginary friends in my head all the time. That doesn't make it real or paranormal.
The human brain is able to come up with stuff. What do you think happens in dreams or drug trips?
How is that shit paranormal at all?
I tell you what, why don't you go into trance and ask the divine beings what my name is. They wont be able to tell you. Pretty weird no... for a god, not even being able to come up with simple shit like that? It's because these beings only exist in your head.
You know it's true. If you are able to ask one of these beings for my name, I will pay you 500€ instant tonight. But you wont, you can't. Either you will make up excuses as that you don't care about money at all or that it's too complicated, bla bla.
>I can have fantasy conversations with imaginary friends in my head all the time. That doesn't make it real or paranormal.
It certainly makes it phenomenologically real.
>What do you think happens in dreams or drug trips?
The exact same thing. The key component is whether the brain recognizes it as real or not. If it does, it's considered a mystical experience. If it doesn't, it's considered fantasy.
>How is that shit paranormal at all?
Paranormal doesn't real.
> It's because these beings only exist in your head.
That's what I've been saying all along, dipshit.
>It certainly makes it phenomenologically real.
Yeah, but REAL doesn't mean paranormal. I posted you the definition of the word two times.
All the things you talk about, are not paranormal. So what you say is the occult, isn't paranormal and doesn't belong on this board.
Reading books, dreams, talking to yourself and hypnosis are not without scientific explanation, which is what the word means.
>Yeah, but REAL doesn't mean paranormal.
It does when people claim it's paranormal.
>paranormal: of or relating to the claimed occurrence of an event or perception without scientific explanation
People still claim dreams are paranormal, you know. It only depends on how informed a person is.
>So what you say is the occult, isn't paranormal and doesn't belong on this board.
The occult by definition (being relating to claimed occurrences of events or perceptions without scientific explanation) is paranormal.
>which is what the word means.
Nope. Your definition is clear: as long as someone claims an occurrence or event is without scientific explanation, it's paranormal.
Unless you mean something else, in which case I suggest not using shit-tier dictionaries.
>It does when people claim it's paranormal.
Nice logic. So people can post about cookies, anal hair and dildos on /x/ now, as long as they might feel it's paranormal. Schizophrenia general.
I think the one who can't read is you.
Yes, a person can CLAIM they ate a cookie yesterday.
Is that paranormal? NO. Because there is plenty of documented evidence of cookies.
A person can also claim they saw Satan yesterday. Is that paranormal? YES! Because there is no scientific explanation for it.
And if you say, oh I saw a cookie and that's paranormal! You can do that. But everyone would just think you're insane.
>Wrong question entirely, if you want witchcraft try the witchcraft thread
What's with occultfags always giving short, arrogant replies? Is it because you're trying to pretend to be extra cool and mystic?
If that's the wrong fucking question, why don't you write one or two lines about it.
Because it gets so tedious answering the same question twelve times every thread. There is a library at the top of every thread, if someone wants to know something so basic they can't read a book. I would think the fact they've managed to make it their entire lives without seeing anyone throwing fireballs or turning invisible would preclude the thought of that harry potter bullshit, but here we are again.
Let me break it down for you:
>paranormal: of or relating to the claimed occurrence of an event or perception without scientific explanation
>of or relating to the claimed
I.e. someone has to claim it.
>occurrence of an event or perception without scientific explanation
I.e. something is claimed to have happened without scientific explanation.
See, the definition you gave is literal dogshit. In other words, is says "that which is claimed to have happened without scientific explanation is paranormal".
Unless you say what you mean, you're just bad at communicating.
ay lets get some more libraries all up in here and stop arguing!
You fail to see that there is scientific proof of satan. Im pretty sure surgo will correct me, but satan is not dofferent from any delusion you make. The only difference is you believe in satan amd thus believe he is real and "paranormal", and you dont believe random thoughtforms you create and thus saythey arent real or paranormal.
Its literally based on belief.
I'd be up for it, but I think K wanted to take a longer-term view of it.
Though given the amount of shit we've learned through the DBoE, it could be an interesting one to revisit.
Last month I saw a died, beheaded dog in a place that usually is used to be filled with sacrificed chicken for rituals. Which type of sacrifice is that? What is the symbolism and the goal of the sacrifice of a dog?
I've never saw this before and I can't stop to think about it.
He really isn't considering he accepted a bad definition of "paranormal" to begin with and also conflated a particular definition of "claimed" with Anon's more colloquial use of it.
Dragon Book of Essex.
It's one of the Cultus Sabbati grimoires, you can find it in the 'Chumbley' section of the library.
Basically a very dense ritual cycle that Ape and I are currently working through. DBoE is the abbreviation we're using because the full name is a pain in the ass to type out.
Hey I was thinking of some names for a weed-based occult group. This is what I got so far
>Temple of Setiva
>Ordo THC Orientis
>Order of Nine Ounces
What do you goys think
Well, I'm going to need some $25 to pay for the domain (osoaa.org). More than likely, it should be reinstated as a website first, with a forum added under it.
If anyone's interested in contributing (financially or content-wise), feel free to e-mail me.
Which changes the definition considerably.
Why should I consider that?
It's not in my interest to make the other guy's point for him.
I'm a big fan of Golden Dank
Temple of Sheeeeit also acceptable
Tbqhwu paterfamilias I think we'd want to worry about the content of what we're doing before we worry about a website.
Actually hashing out what form it will take is something that can be done on a free forum if needs be, or even a slack group or something. Content is king.
I'd be interested to hear K's opinions (and Satyr's?) on it, see where we're at. Tons going on with DBoE atm, we're going to be busy over the next few months (the last of the babby stuff seems to be in March, then it gets very spooky very quickly).
I'm open to it at least.
Empiricism stopped being relevant when it was shown that invisible forces act on separated objects. Rationality was never relevant since people have been brutally murdering each other since time immaterial. So those arguing from either position of rationality or empiricism can be completely ignored, as they choose to live in an imaginary world.
We are then left with the dogmatic. Those whose minds shuddered closed and trembling at the howling wind outside that shrieks of untold possibility.
A man cannot exist alone in isolation, and among his fellow men his youth, strength and vigor will fade. The only thing he has that grows with time is knowledge.
Mysticism and Spirituality will always be appealing. Forbidden knowledge and the Unknown even for modern humans removed from a natural and primitive existence is the most precious thing; it reaches back into prehistory, social units and survival as a species. It promises a meaning to the meaningless, and purpose set to task will build empire.
>I think we'd want to worry about the content of what we're doing before we worry about a website.
I don't think that works very great; last time we got STUCK on what content we wanted, rather than actually producing it.
>Actually hashing out what form it will take is something that can be done
I can play admin, but I ain't have no love for writing about magic no more, unless we're talking from a philosophical perspective?
The premise on which you built your argument is fallacious.
Both fair points, though desu I can't see us luring Satyr back here. Closed forum on 4 + 4 chan, maybe? Though I guess there's no reason to prevent others from joining in.
>I can play admin, but I ain't have no love for writing about magic no more, unless we're talking from a philosophical perspective?
In that case, why get involved with OSOAA? I thought you were all about the hypno these days?
>why get involved with OSOAA?
>I thought you were all about the hypno these days?
Which doesn't stop me from following the curriculum of the Order out until the end.
That's the whole point. I removed magic from magick, and all that's left is K -> Kaph -> Jupiter.
I'm sure you can see how this would move into a secular healer's perspective of the world.
My aim is to basically continue the tradition minus all the superstitious and incoherent philosophical talk.
Anyone had experiences with Enochian Magick?
Share your knowledge.
I'm currently studying and practicing the Golden Dawn curriculum, and it got me curious.
Wait a week and I'll shoot you the funds. No promises I'll be overly active in it, but after the whole "only kill people on Thursdays" nonsense where I least expected to find it I could do with a more secular book or two.
>The high order of illuminated blunts
kek if I can find the time I can start working on some labs that aren't intentionally craptacular. I'll leave quality control to you and K.No witchcraft, but I'll probably include a bunch of quisi mystical bullshit because it makes the whole thing more fun. So any particular lineage you trying to model this off of?
The most violent and painful reactions I've ever gotten from magic I've gotten from trying to work Enochian. Careful with that.
I'm currently studying the books in the mesmer's lair google drive, mostly to master self-hypnosis. I have a question about it : will practicing getting into a trance state often automatically "loosen up" my brain? It's very difficult for me to gain new habits or think differently from my usual ways without a lot of effort. Will the regular trance allow me to pick up new ideas and suggestions more easily?
>So any particular lineage you trying to model this off of?
Not at all. My interest is in forging a most clear, concise, and superstition-free curriculum which achieves the same goals.
If you give me money, I can scan and upload my journals.
It's... a lot, however, and I ain't transcribing them.
There's some of my thoughts and stuff on z.lvxnox.com if you care though. Some visions, some analyses.
>will practicing getting into a trance state often automatically "loosen up" my brain?
>Will the regular trance allow me to pick up new ideas and suggestions more easily?
It's however also important that you understand what hypnosis is or isn't.
Here's a link to my website (which I am in the process of slowly translating, so it's still Google Translate) - should suffice to get the gist of what things are about.
>tfw google translate is absolute shit
>tfw it's still better than most automated solutions
It's been tried and done in some form or another for years and can't really be done. The very foundation of practice is holding strong beliefs. The only think I can think of that does come close is buddhism and even that has quite a few leaps of faith. Metaphor has to be taken as a kind of truth and it works against that goal to distance it further.
What I would find more valuable in this age is a methodology for uncovering the Myth individual to the individual. The stories that drive us are no longer of a single lineage and the form that archetypes unnamed take in our minds are rarely as godlike or so classically defined. The Mythic language of science is not for all, just as the language of Jung I'm using here is not my own, merely the most convenient for this one explanation but not my specific practice.
Magic as such for the skeptic isn't an impossibility, just look at the belief systems and practices of medicine, so easily held as true by cold minds, but magic and mysticism are not for the skeptic who always doubts until handed 'fact' and laps it up but the cynic dog who always discerns. Always.
I don't think you can remove but so much of the bullshit and might rather instead wrap it in a sensible 'why' it must be done in such a way. Or define the epistemology so you can actually see what can and can't be pared away. NLP may prove useful there.
>It's been tried and done in some form or another for years and can't really be done.
Except I've done this with myself. It works.
>The very foundation of practice is holding strong beliefs.
Not true. The foundation of practice is self-change and adaptability. Strong beliefs are at best an obstacle on the way.
>The only think I can think of that does come close is buddhism and even that has quite a few leaps of faith.
Due to stemming from a time of ignorance and misunderstanding.
>Metaphor has to be taken as a kind of truth and it works against that goal to distance it further.
Metaphor or abstraction?
>What I would find more valuable in this age is a methodology for uncovering the Myth individual to the individual.
So basically the same thing that's been done for over 150 years now. I have to disagree here.
>The stories that drive us are no longer of a single lineage and the form that archetypes unnamed take in our minds are rarely as godlike or so classically defined.
They never were of a single lineage. They're not as godlike because we now recognize what they are. Which by nature means that it's time to move the fuck on.
>The Mythic language of science is not for all, just as the language of Jung I'm using here is not my own, merely the most convenient for this one explanation but not my specific practice.
I don't think it's convenient at all. Jung fell into the erring hole of assuming that he was right only due to having some experiences which confirmed his presuppositions (i.e. he is right because he is right, in his mind, given that presuppositions open the mind towards their object).
>Magic as such for the skeptic isn't an impossibility, just look at the belief systems and practices of medicine, so easily held as true by cold minds, but magic and mysticism are not for the skeptic who always doubts until handed 'fact' and laps it up but the cynic dog who always discerns. Always.
However magic has a very specific definition - it only has any meaning in relation to science. And if we assume that science is just a belief system (which it's not), then you've basically admitted you've no clue what you're talking about.
>I don't think you can remove but so much of the bullshit and might rather instead wrap it in a sensible 'why' it must be done in such a way.
Or I can simply remove all superstition and leave the parts which can be reliably replicated. There is entirely zero reason to hold onto old concepts with fuzzy definitions which are basically unusable in the modern day. I've still to find a concrete, precise definition for the Anima or Animus, so you'll excuse me if I just call them mystical woo.
>Or define the epistemology so you can actually see what can and can't be pared away. NLP may prove useful there.
NLP a shit. New Code is reasonably decent, although I'm still more biased towards straight hypnosis, as it's much more efficient and reliable.
I meant the modeling method to see what works and how. Analyse the grammar of ritual and practice to see what works and leave the rest there. This does presuppose the good old fashioned perianal philosophy.
>Analyse the grammar of ritual and practice to see what works and leave the rest there.
WELL, you don't have to. Once you know what the goal of the ritual does, you can achieve it easily with suggestions to that end. There's entirely no need to even use ritual or it's words, or it's grammar.
But yeah, in general, that's the idea.
Huh, the Key of Solomon ceremony seems fairly straightforward.
Mather's arrangement of the text is a mess though (unless it's actually how the MSS were laid out), it's a big jumble of different orations. I think the hardest part here will be actually figuring out what goes where.
Still, it's a piece of cake compared to DBoE so far
dion fortune - mystical qabalah or
israel regardie- tree of life or
meditation and Kabbalah - aryeh kaplan
are all pretty good
corpus hermeticum and kybalion
>20 years of my mind is full of fuck: the musical
arguable, the belief doesn't need to be part of the system or ritual you're working, it can even be counter to. Both trust and curiosity can be enough to break the mold, or create the suspension of disbelief necessary for new experiences. Not really trying to re-invent the wheel, just grind the edges smooth. In mindfulness we see the technique at its most sterile, but at the same time in there it's stripped down to the point of being boring.
Chicken Qabalah (if its there) is fine for a ground-basics intro (apart from the dad jokes throughout). Lon Milo is fine for very basic shit, but go elsewhere for more advanced stuff.
Mystical Qabalah is great, huge shame she never got around to writing her book on the Paths.
The Baptists Head took this approach, made for some interesting reading
>dont have $50
I divine that your financial situation is grim
>What would be the benefits, apart from learning the language?
The language is irrelevant. The benefits would be that you're bypassing your CF actively, as with any mantra.
>Wouldn't that upset the angel since you're just calling him for nothing?
You do realize the first two enochian calls don't have anything to do with angels, right?
we don't answer it because:
Go read some books and experiment with the stuff yourself. And for the love of god, at least read up on what magick is. It's not about MUH SUPERPOWERS.
It's like going to a church and saying prove God is real. Nigga, we ain't gonna walk on water or turn water into wine.
I've read the most gnostic texts. I'm talking about pointing to specific texts. Keeping your mouth shut, when you dont know what youre talking about is always the best choice.
>I wouldn't charge as I do if I wasn't good.
How many hours a week do you guys usually spend on this?
Ive been going to the gym for the last 6 years and can deadlift 480lbs.
What can you do?
I also do mindful meditation for a clear mind.
I believe both of these are superior ways of achieving lucidity, health and positive "change in yourself" than chaos magick (as you mentioned ITT as reasons you do this).
Now i dont want to spread any hate, it's just not logical to me why someone would do something like magick for the mentioned reasons.
Its like you guys are trying to avoid any direct and logical questions asked here, wether by trolls or not.
The intention of my post is not to bash anyone but to hopefully change my opinion about the occult.
Sorry for any mistakes, english is not my first language, pic unrelated
I'm reading the Zohar because I understand it to be a classic but must admit I'm not getting much from it. Did anyone here have a positive experience with the Zohar and mind explaining what they enjoyed and took away from it?
Are you reading the entire Zohar or a selections?
I tried to start Zohar once. I abandoned and then I got a book where highlight some Zohar essentials and it was a lot clearer.
It's difficult to read by your own if you're not Jewish and aren't familiar with the language. You have to read an explained version (dont know if there's any, but, for example, when I read the Bahir, it had to be the Aryeh Kaplan version, with very useful notes).
To each his own, I guess.
I don't think anyone here is interested in change your mind. Occultism is not like religion, there's no point in proselitism (except if we want money and make some Order).
And desu you can do both.
You're more focused in the physical, but still interested in doing meditation, for example.
I, for one, am more interested in the spiritual, but still go to the gym three days a week. Just to be fit.
Let's not forget anon, occult is just an aspect of cults... These faggots are hypnotized in to believing their ego has some non-physical element that allows them to 'imagine' their reality in to existence...not much different from autism, really, and they'll make great slaves if you can coerce them in to doing things for you to avoid 'work'. I don't believe in magicks, but I'm very familiar with the literature, because goth sluts eat that shit up. Let these idiots continue to deceive themselves anon.
Best Magick/magick practices for those of us with full time jobs, families and hobbies? I can't sit and stare into a smoke cloud for hours all the time.
I know this is pretty retarded, but this is /x/, so I might as well throw it here just in case.
Is there a school of magic that deals with bodily transformations? Am not talking about growing tentacles or horns and shit, just about minor things like fixing injuries, changing the shape of things, fixing broken teeth or changing the color of the skin,...
I know that many claim that the "white" schools of magic, such as Hermetics, grant minor passive healing abilities, but I am thinking of something a bit more "grand", if you catch my drift.
So, any school that specializes in that kind of magic, and where can I find some writings on it?
>protip if you can actually grow horns and tentacles and triples dicks and 7 vaginas
Is it possible to become able to see spirits etc by daily walking with a friend who is related to such things? Just a question related to my past.
>When I was in school, used to talk with a girl
>Her father was a "Medium" or somethng like this, he could talk to spirits and let spirits possess him to pass messages
Not sure if it's the actual word translated for english, but I think their belief/religion was Spiritism
>She told me her father had asked to a spirit follow her and protect her
>About a few months with her, I started to hear some awful noises and voices
>Likely bad stuff
>When I stopped talking with her, those things stopped
This is me: >>17321061
Lemme tell you something personal. Since I could read, I've been interested in the occult. My feverish search for secrets to train myself for telekinesis got halted and was replaced instead for healing magic. I developed juvenile diabetes at 14, and spent YEARS looking for non-scientific ways of reducing my pain, or curing my condition.
I also researched physics scientific stuff, used to hold a believe that quantum duality was key to telekinesis/timetravel/astralprojectn'. But also began to develop interest in medical science as well, mostly out of want to cure my condition. I turn 18, move out and begin experimenting with the occult right away. (parents were super christian, beat the shit out of me for having manga, beat me every day for a week for stealing yugioh cards at age 11) So, I went fucking nuts with my experimentation. Not A Single Fucking Thing.
No schools or ascended masters can help me, any english-speaking ones back off as soon as I mention my disease, because US legalities, and they're mostly-helping-people-through-hardships here in the US.
So, I gave up. I'm pursuing medical chemistry, and 'hooray', the science of gene therapy is getting better all of the time.
Don't be a lazy faggot and get sucked into beleiving that smoking herbs and chanting and thinking a certain way are going to be the keys to the universe. Instead, take >>17320838
Workout. Meditate. And become your final form.
And hey, maybe you can earn some money on the way and buy that futa surgery, instead of using magicks to grow it!
I'm here because I'm immune to the mainstream bull after botched indoctrination but left with the same basic human needs. Outright mysticism isn't an option and standard explanations don't jive with me because all the words are loaded and take for granted experiences I just hadn't had without esoterica involved. It brought me into the light. It's sort of like how the buddhism of the people isn't the buddhism of monks. My mind needs dense philosophy to shut up. It's therapy that actually works.
I wanted power in my life and it gave me the map for power over myself beyond what I would have had alone and with little of the time and trial and error. It also ties in with and ties together my other lifelong interests like psychology, hypnosis, getting high and making friends you actually connect with. All the fields of science and healing and living that stem from what is obstensibly the occult. It also ties in with my love of the outdoors. Nothing like caving to discover you have terrible claustrophobia and what better place to work on it than half submerged in a crack in the womb of life.
As the only path, to not study it directly or read the works of those that have seems foolish to me. Some people read Emerson, I sit out in the rain ina bathrobe.
Your parents might be to blame and not just shit genetics. Hypnotherapy might be up your alley. Got rid of my anxiety and misanthropy stemming from shitty things my parents did because they are shitty people ruled by their own demons.
Thanks for the answer.
I don't really look into the occult for positive reinforcement and that kind of shit. I just want to fool around with magic and do interesting things.
It is kinda sad that after all your research you found nothing though it was kinda expected. After all I imagine that if anyone was actually able to do anything "fun" with magic, they would be sharing pictures and videos all over the net about it.
Even though I don't really believe in magic I keep coming to /x/ hoping for something interesting to show up and fill the void...
And I have been coming here for years...
I've been on 4chan since 03 (believe it or not), but I only started getting on /x/ AFTER I began both experiencing the paranormal and digging up much paranormal shit on the web. Even though my selfish research for a cure didn't turn up anything, and >>17321164
may be right and my parents and horrible life are to blame, but THERE IS PARANORMAL PHENOMENA. However, it's not all whimsy-wally-withical happy shit... and you probs also don't believe in my oldfaggedness anyways, but
1. UFOs are real (i've had 5 sightings now, all of em crazy)
2. Passive psychic phenomena is real. (I suck at it, but it can be trained, some people are 'gifted')
3. Dimensions are a mainstream word, but mathematically, they mean 'degrees of freedom' and very much so interact with this so-called 4th dimension we experience.
4. Multiple corporate and government agencies are aware of all of the above and use this knowledge on the masses.
Thanks for coming to /x/ and hearing my story anon. I hope my post sends you on the path to actualizing whatever your dreams may be!
I always wonder what is sufficiently magical. Yogi stopping his own heart is enough for me. Monks setting centers of their brains on fire in the cat scan when the average person is but a dull ember should be enough. Speaking directly to someone's subconscious to heal them, or just for fun and profit is pretty magical to me. Ignore the stories obscuring truth with fireballz and you will find what they do and have historically done is amazing stuff, especially compared to what the average person or even medical specialist is capable of now. Fuck, the only preachers now with the fire and the power of word are con artists.
I guess what I'm saying is that magic is everywhere and in every thing, we've just been misguided as to how to qualify it. The process of life should be at least a 3. Hell a good fart can approach a 6 depending on how it is wielded.
Reading the Satanic bible right now, I'm wanting to eventually have an understanding of summoning the Devil/Demons, any advice?
I'm anon that blamed your parents, I have trouble calling anything paranormal. They are experiences and what is normal to one person or culture isn't to another. I saw a pants shittingly black shadow of a dog while on a night walk in a certain presidential summer home. I'm not the only one. It's normal to us the way ufos and dbz are normal conversation to Mexicans. There are things at the limits though. When you get to epistemology or discerning what is beyond the various veils metaphysically, I tend to keep quiet.
Dimensions are definitely a perceptual thing on one dimension. Related, I think people misunderstand that all these things metaphors, even the names that allegedly conceptualise the thing itself are taken from elsewhere and reused. What great truth there is comes from expanding into different dimensions through understanding that thing itself and having models and metaphors to see the world by.
I figured maybe, it more anti-religion/summoning then anything, reading list recommendation please?
Oh my dream is simple.
To have something extraordinary and paranormal happen in my life.
But, don't we all?
One thing that never fails to impress me is the Burning Monk from 1963. When cremated his heart failed to burn and is still conserved to this day.
I like the living mummies. Or just monks in general. They make the dankest memes and all the time spent alone or in practice give many of them a genuine insight that shines like little else. And it gives me a fallback plan I never want to take part in.
Whatever happened to Vendor
He was the trippiest tripfag.
Please someone tell me what happened to him.
>my name is john and I hate each and every
Thinking about yourself as you jerk off doesn't count as mindfulness. Don't feel bad though lots of people get that one wrong.
> lucidity, health and positive "change in yourself
oh boy, it's chaos magic. Crowley added a k to the end of the word to differentiate it from stage magic. "summoning demons, not pulling rabits out of a hat. and all that. Considering how many chaos magicians hate crowley that spelling of that phrase is pretty much moot.
Chaos magic isn't necessarily a failed paradigm, but you'd be hard pressed to tell the two apart after a few beers. Chaos magic was supposed to be about ritual simplification, about getting to heart of magic and learning it's wobbly bits and mastering it. But when they cut all the fun mind stuff, and the ritual they were left with nothing but the belief that what you think and do don't matter, so they all ran off to roleplay being witches. To put it in terms you'd understand, it's a bunch of people who think they can get fit by going to gym and not using the equipment, just sitting around and staring at the mirror.
> trying to avoid any direct and logical questions
yes because it gets asked at least 12 times a thread who people who don't want an answer, they just want you to agree with their loaded question so they can assume they were right all along.
and since apparently there can be no conversation until these question have been answered
>hours a week
five to 30 minutes a night depending on whats going on, with an hour or two set aside for something bigger on the weekend.
>I've been going to the gym
no one cares
>What can you do?
Spiritual experiences on demand when I feel like putting the work into it. Have you ever known someone who one day has some sort of religious experience and it completely changes who they are? Like they are doing drugs and partying and one day they find jesus and suddenly they are clean living. Or people who see god on the deathbed and devote their whole life to it. These powerful deep emotional experiences that are so far outside of the norm that people live their whole lives for them? It's just a bit of work for me to have one, gods and angels and demons and spirits. though admittedly it does lose a lot of it's impact after the first few.
Placebo on demand. Just a bit of visualization and a few funny words I can significantly reduce how much pain I'm in or how strongly an illness is affecting me. As someone who has been on fire, and as someone who dealt with months of pain after a motorcycle accident wrecked my teeth, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this one.
Trip balls on demand without drugs. Trance state meditations are like the worlds best lsd trip, no drugs needed.
And all the simple little shit. Body temperature control, heart rate and blood pressure control, ability to not be tired when I don't want to be (within reason). Ability to be completely calm is situations that should be stressful.
Hypnotherapy affects gene expression. If you find a good professional, I would say, one to three sessions should be more than enough.
I'd love to see some proof of 2, 3, and 4.
Those are all achieved by mastering self-hypnosis. Nothing magical in that.
Have you read Crowley's introduction?
4 free no side effects. Anon has the right idea, at least compared to people who give their self a headache and go running for pills or beating their kids because they made them feel that way and get drunk and feel that way again.
I'm used to getting into a trance state by running or pacing or rocking backand forth. Usually I'm able to see beautiful things this way
All this staying still and focusing to reach gnosis is just so difficult for me I want to move
Can I make repetitive movements of some kind?
Some of these are good.
Also, what books would folks recommend I stick in the library w/r/t Chod?
There are a lot of related fields I'd like to see, but they aren't really the ground for it and have some more serious takedown concerns. It could definitely use more philosophy of a more general sort and I'd like to see a bit of stage magic but wouldn't know where to start and don't really want to pursue that myself, though what I have read has been useful in various ways. Maybe some gardening, might as well be practical.
Hello, /omg/. I'm not a practicing occultist (other than some meditation i do to calm my nerves) but i'm extremely fascinated my magick and western symbolism. I'm currently writing a story where magick is the power used by some characters, a-là The Invisibles or Requiem Vampire Knight, and i'm looking for some advices on giving my characters abilities coherent with magickal lore, avoiding physics bending stuff like fireballs or generally strong physical interference with the world, while still producing paranormal effects.
So far this is what i came up with:
>acquiring informations through astral travel by moving through the real world
>life extension by moving consciousness into another vessel
>symbolic magic, like using symbolic actions or reagents and then raising "energy" to actualize the effects in the world. The effects would happen through probability manipulation, so no high telekinetic stuff.
>telepathy and divination through intuition or by getting informations from spirits.
> mind influencing and redirecting (like invisibility charms etc.) through mental communication happening through collecting unconscious/astral world, easier to do when the person sleeps.
> spirits/demons being capable of physical interference greater than probability manipulation by inhabiting a vessel(smoke, fire, animals etc.)
> invoking archetypes/gods/elements to acquire the desired skills/emotions/mindsets, mundane skills only not superpowers.
>healing and improvement of self and others through trance by manipulating the internal landscape, to the point of controlling the immune system and nervous system.
>charging of amulets or artifacts to facilitate or create specific effects within the aims of the natural world.
Please, feel free to give suggestions or corrections.
A fortune teller told me she saw a lot of water in my card reading, even noting to me how strange that is. I believe they were mostly cards with pictures of the sea and a coast in the background.
Is the presence of water to be taken literal or does the water mean something else?
Works for me, i don't need these abilities to be strictly paranormal but just occult, as in difficult to acquire/master by the general population and without a thorough study of consciousness. Paranormal effects are okay as long as they can work through natural laws(an oxymoron, but i mean it as science not yet understood).
>difficult to acquire/master by the general population and without a thorough study of consciousness
I can teach 80% of those within a few hours. Not at all difficult. Just misunderstood by the general population.
Many thanks for uploading this stuff, i finally achieved some success in self hypnosis by following the Ledochowski book.
For the guy that was looking for the audios, there's a torrent on TPB, i'm currently seeding it.
guys, hold this theory for me for a second:
>Chaos magic says that Magic is made of strong belief
>magic is "fired" once people has lost active interest on something and believes with dispassion
>gods are made by the psychical belief of people
>ghosts are also made by the feeling of loss of their living loved ones, projected into existance
>spirits are formed by the fears of people
>all this things get consciousness of their own.
>occultists try to contact and worship those entities
It means things that are like water. Emotions generally but also whatever is most relevant. Friendship, long relationships after the passion has sailed, your feels, whatever. It doesn't really matter because its about what you make of it, those concordances.
You're very welcome.
As much as I love Igor's stuff, and it's really great, I still find myself avoiding it in situations where therapy or deep trance states are involved, given that it doesn't lead you as deeply as you could go.
Bear in mind the above only applies to hypnosis with another person. Self-hypnosis is basically what Igor says. There's some other methods, involving the AIM, Automatisms and such, however they're more of a tool once you have the gist of it; speeding things up.
Chaos magic is glorified self-hypnosis. Literally.
>Chaos magic says that Magic is made of strong belief
I.e. a concept that has taken a coherent form in the mind.
>magic is "fired" once people has lost active interest on something and believes with dispassion
I.e. the concept has been made unconscious, since the goal is to lose it from consciousness (i.e. forget)
>gods are made by the psychical belief of people
Gods are indeed constructs that have been made unconscious (psychological model)
>ghosts are also made by the feeling of loss of their living loved ones, projected into existance
Concepts and a dissociated part of self manifesting in order to heal emotional trauma, grief and loss.
>spirits are formed by the fears of people
As above. Once you become unconscious of it being your own creation, it becomes something else.
>all this things get consciousness of their own.
Well, not really. They're still automatic.
>occultists try to contact and worship those entities
The former yes, the latter no.
>When cremated his heart failed to burn and is still conserved to this day.
The heart is the fleshly equivalent of teak, it works from before your birth until you die, in fact have you seen that vid where the motorcyclist has been torn to bits in a crash and his heart is beating on the ground?
Of course it wouldn't burn. The last Jack the Ripper murder was a whole night of dissection and the victim's heart was found in a kettle.
TLDR: hearts surviving fire is actually pretty normal.
Only in the sense that you think there is something strange about it. The cards speak directly to the subconscious and the reaction is just as important as the spread. More so when you turn on the bullshit filter.
I'm currently going through Igor's 7-days program but i plan to expand on the other resources too, i guess having a broader understanding of the subject won't hurt my practice even if i plan to use hypnosis on none others than myself for now.
The correlation between the eyes and trance states, for example, is something i wish to understand better : i was absolutely amazed on how easily i could start entering a Trance just by making my eyes rest on an object, especially after struggling with breathing techniques and mantras for so long with no success trying to achieve the same.
>Well, not really. They're still automatic.
what do you mean with automatic? I understand that you're proving I'm right. Those constructs get a life of their own once they're free from their creator's consciousness.
Thanks for the talk anon. My first reaction was that I thought it was cool so my subconscious is a cool guy.
Enochian, wildly interesting, totally made up by a scammer and a dingaling. You can see the imprint of their education pushing through the wax of the RP.
Enochian, the Mormon Church of the Occult.
One does not scam queens without a certain degree of knowledge. Hell, in this age the only people who know the most valuable talking points of the human mind and what to do with them are con artists. Good business innit.
It's occult to me at least. It is my occult if you know what I'm saying. Also some eivor.
More generally, just about anything. I like l'apres midi d'un faun in its various incarnations. It's pretty easy to tell what is occult and what is just formula, even within Bach who is generally occult in his formula.
Anybody here know a fair amount of Gnosticism and the concept of kundalini?
I've been introduced to the topic and I see a belief system constructed around sex, sexuality, et cetera. However, the material I run into seems to state that "success" is not achieved if you are anything other than heterosexual?
Is this belief system just another "fags go to hell" faith?
How can faith systems do this with the overwhelming ignorance surrounding such a sexuality? We know not of where it comes from and why it arises in nature. If not ignorance, then surely it is the only sin that condemns you to absolute stagnation and eternal hellfire despite the motivation to purify the soul?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
Trying to find them, I come to a website that presents information in a cryptic way and I lose track of what its trying to convey to me.
I did come across information saying Crowley adored feces in anal sex and dreamed about bearing a child through his ass.
I don't think this makes me feel any better, man.
>That discomfort when the moon doesn't rise according to schedule
>That fear when you realize you've lost an entire week with no memory whatsoever of what you did
>more universal deep constructs related to the actual structure of the mind
I.e. a thing made.
>The correlation between the eyes and trance states, for example, is something i wish to understand better
Also check out Andrew Austin's "Integral Eye Movement Therapy".
>what do you mean with automatic?
Precisely that. Non-conscious, non-self-aware. Just acting according to programming.
>I understand that you're proving I'm right.
In a very limited extent.
>Those constructs get a life of their own once they're free from their creator's consciousness.
No. They *act* as if they have a life of their own, however they are always within the creator, regardless of whether the creator is conscious of them or not.
By the way, I've been meaning to ask you. Do you think I am going too far with the whole hypno swag shit?
I'm not sure it's appropriate for me to keep representing the A.'.A.'. tradition if I'm going to be raping Babalon's corpse like this, tbqh senpai.
>issues of ethics and proper conduct
>They *act* as if they have a life of their own, however they are always within the creator, regardless of whether the creator is conscious of them or not.
You got any source on that? I'd like to know more about the spirit's nature.
Do you think they linger when the creator has died?
>You got any source on that?
Basic hypnosis. Check out the Therapy folder in the Google Drive.
>I'd like to know more about the spirit's nature.
No such thing as a spirit.
>Do you think they linger when the creator has died?
No, except as memes.
Well fags dont go to hell but you simply cant practice 90% of sadhana involving sex with another guy. Its just doesnt work. In the same way, you can practice tantra if youre impotent and dont produce any sperm.
Jai Jai Maa!
>By the way, I've been meaning to ask you. Do you think I am going too far with the whole hypno swag shit?
I'd say you've just been leaning too heavily on it, rather than you being totally wrong.
Again, there's a reason I don't crawl up your ass w/r/t your studies. The psych model explains enough that I don't really care if someone studies it really really hard, or if they make the full blown switch to full epistemological/ontological materialism.
The only thing that be troublesome is if you didn't feel the Class A texts were representative of high grade trance states.
I'd quibble with that a bit. I think AC's the only one to take Eastern and Western sexual practices and experiments with them, in careful detail, via the homosex route, and wrote extensively on the implied alchemy thereof. Even back in Magick in Theory and Practice under the ALIM formula. Just because it's not in core tantra doesn't mean it's not a possible avenue of experimentation.
You got any good books on Chod you'd recommend?
>The only thing that be troublesome is if you didn't feel the Class A texts were representative of high grade trance states.
That's a thing. I've been reading Liber AL with this in mind, and to be fair, it's basically Crowley's subconscious vomiting all of this shit up.
The other books, definitely valuable, but again, in a particular (rather vague) frame of reference, which makes them less than useful in terms of getting shit done.
Good as poetry, but coming from a mind ignorant of what can be done, far as I'm concerned.
Trance states? Sure.
High grade? ergh... not really, no. More like confused and grasping at associations, rather than clarity much.
I strongly believe that Crowley's more rational and down to earth writings are significantly more valuable than his Class A stuff (which can still be useful, but not nearly as it's claimed to be).
I'm A.'.A.'., live in Poland. I know Gunther's lineage also operates here and in Germany, but I don't know any of them personally.
Liber L's not a particularly good representation given it's after-the-fact construction.
And sure, his comments on number theory in Kabbalah are probably more useful (Essay on Ontology), but I was mostly directing the comment to your AA feels rather than thelema as a whole.
Suster's line operates in Europe. Couple others, think I remember an Italian speaking group back before wikipedia #rekt the only centralized collection of links due to Guntherfag whinging that they're the ONLY REAL™ TRUE AND HONEST A.'.A.'.®
making plans to run a game where European esotericism, and arican Animism meet. I want to use as close as I can to real world occultism. Finding stuff on esotericism is fairly easy. Animism not so much.
Animism is pretty primitive and instinctual, most people understand it inherently, they just push it out in favor of modern tradition. If youve ever been 8 you've been an animist.
Different traditions will vary on specifics based on region or unique superstitions, but really Western European animism, African animism, East Asian animism all have a lot in common.
Generally, its a reverence for the ancestral dead, a belief in many spirits, usually present in all things, and often times folk traditions of supernatural or perhaps supranatural animals and mosters, cryptids, the unhappy dead.
You asked specifically about African animism and fetishism. What do you want to know about specifically? How spirits are contacted and worshiped? Why? Its just kind of a broad topic Im trying to focus in on what you actually want to learn.
Is it true that in the higher degrees at the OTO you have to perform homosex as degree tasks?
I used to go to an OTO Oasis, but its Master was not really knowleadgble. You know, it was more a thing of politics. Me, a simple Kabbalah student, gave a few classes about it, because it was all messed up.
Can't take OTO too seriously now. Instead, I really like what James Eshelman is doing with his Temple of Thelema.
Yeah, I'd forgotten we'd archived those, but last I checked (probably close to a year or more), something like a third or half those links were dead.
>Sychretized with the greater west
Look up the Ekpe society.
Yup. I still keep them around because it's fun.
>Is it true that in the higher degrees at the OTO you have to perform homosex as degree tasks?
As initiation into the XI°.
>Can't take OTO too seriously now.
Anyone who takes the OTO seriously has lost their mind.
The 11th degree is homosexual. That said, the 11th degree's the next to last stop on the OTO train. 12th was only used by AC. 11th's only been given once since Crowley died. SOME folks explore the 11th degree material on their own time.
My point is you've got a better chance of winning the lottery, walking outside, then getting struck by lightning than being required to do anything gay for OTO.
>Anyone who takes the OTO seriously has lost their mind.
Ekpe is a very small sliver of a much larger and more complex tradition going back to pre-human origin. Its very interesting because of its syncretic ties as you stated, but I think that anon is looking for something a little different. Cool idea still.
He wanted a framework and they have a framework, with initiatory degrees no less.
If I were going to build a nativist, not-quite-Yoruba/not-quite-Voodoo thing on the back of Western structural framework, I'd crib notes from them first and hardest.
I'm not sure if this is the right thread but thought I'd get some open minded thoughts on this..
I downloaded a ghost radar app for a bit of fun, not really expecting anything. However there have been a few weird things. If I ever open it in my house, the radar always shows 2 ghosts in a pair only. I've opened it up elsewhere and there are many ghosts. However in my home always just 2 in a pair that follow each other.
Another weird thing that happened today. I am minding a very boisterous 8 month old puppy. It barks and goes crazy a lot. I was bored and had the radar open. When it says words its mostly words that make no sense, however when the dog started going crazy the radar (with the pair of ghosts) said 'dog'. I thought that was way too much of a coincidence.
>I'd crib notes from them first and hardest.
fair enough I suppose, there's a great deal of masonic and western tradition already built into much of the haitian and new orleans traditions though without going that obscure.
Like I said its a good thought.
That's a damn fine choice. If he woulda cranked out another maybe five or seven of something similar, and maybe some instructions in same sort of verse in Class A, I'd probably hear less bitching from non-Thelemites that AC's writing doesn't mirror other attainers who wrote in 9th C. Kashmir, but people will bitch about any/everything.
When's the last time you went through NV/HAD? I was thinking of giving them a shot given I'm already on the bulky DBoE material, may help me keep my mind on Her instead of being swallowed up by Typhon.
>However in my home always just 2 in a pair that follow each other.
it randomizes its results based on local wifi signals, not paranormal, and not for this thread.
the vocabulary on those is always very limited and always relevant to the standard suburban ghost hunter "dog" "cat" "car" "kitchen" "television"... its not like those apps are going to say "Tolstoy" or some obscure band name or something, theyre tailored to make you think theyre picking relevant words by choosing stuff likely to be in your environment.
Also, wrong thread.
>>When's the last time you went through NV/HAD?
A year ago? Or something?
>may help me keep my mind on Her instead of being swallowed up by Typhon.
The latter doesn't seem like a possibility, unless you're mentally unstable, which I highly doubt.
Besides, NU isn't going to stabilize Typhon. More like exacerbate the problem into an emotional direction.
I'm not looking for NV to stabilize Typhon, hopefully the praxis I'm on is going to do that, and works well, but here in like three months Uncle Andy walks you through the stellar arcana on behenian fixed stars and how to throw this praxis off of Draco (reckoned as male/Chockmah by Kaplan and DCS) and into the ecliptic (reckoned as female/Binah by Kaplan and DCS). He doesn't explain jack shit other than "figure it out yourself if you live below the equator", but I suspect I'll get some new ritual superstructures I can reapply to the A.'.A.'. path proper, fill in some of AC's gaps and teases, Aethyr 15, etc.
It's going to be a very interesting year or so.
I understand, though, that one of you is A.A.
How is that different from the OTO? You still go through a series of tasks that are quite weird (for a relatively normal person), i.e., sit tensing muscle for hours, with a recipient of water above your head, without spilling.
I don't know if it's like freemasonry where everything is symbolic. Thing is, when I was in the Oto, everything was taken literally. The guys seems like christian zealots. But then again, it is the OTO in a third world country where I went.-
well therein, I think lies the problem, are you asking about religious practices? because what one does with those traditions is to venerate the dead, who in turn act as conduits to the larger spirit world. Depending on the tradition (but in most traditions) some of these spirits ar natural spirits, or tied to primal forces like time, death, luck, etc. Keeping good relations with ancestral spirits allows you a way to communicate with the other spirits and petition for help or guidance, like any other religion.
If however you're looking for the nitty gritty "yeah but what do you physically do" its going to vary from tradition to tradition...
I guess Im asking, are you asking what an animist tries to achieve? Are you asking what they believe? Or are you asking about the methods by which animists attempt these things?
>You still go through a series of tasks that are quite weird (for a relatively normal person), i.e., sit tensing muscle for hours, with a recipient of water above your head, without spilling.
If yoga's weird, you call me Richard Trenton Chase.
You should probably understand that there is, by OTO policy, no coherent interpretation or discussion of the most primary religious components. You're discouraged from talking, in any capacity, about Liber L.
This SHOULD be an indicator that there is no doctrine, and you've got to figure out what's literal and what's not for yourself. So yeah, the yoga's literal. The blood/semen in the Cakes of Light is literal. Most of Gnostic Mass is not literal unless you're at a super private event where the act is consumated.
Get good with the material and puzzle it out for yourself.
Yeah what do they achieve? And i learned somewhere about the idea of "power" coming from crafting, similar to in european tradition power comes from words. So I'm curious how that focus on crafting plays into their methods and what they try to achieve.
AHHHH. Yes, in that case, yes.
Alternatively you could work with your Genius via Agrippa, and treat that as your gateway towards the fixed stars.
>sit tensing muscle for hours
You're not supposed to tense them. Just hold them barely enough for you not to move.
Yup, that's definitely a thing in Mali where the bird dance items are charged in their creation by a qualified practitioner.
You can read ALL about that shit in "Bird Dance Near Saturday City" by McNaughton.
In the case of the Bird Dance the idea is that by viewing a public performance using sufficiently charged ritual implements, the 'magical energy' will suffuse the dancers, who then impart it to the attending public.
well what they DO achieve and what they TRY to achieve are different things, but I think I get what you're asking.
Generally animist goals, like the faith itself are primitive, theyre looking for health and wellbeing, fertility is a big thing, sorting out truth from lies. Most animist magic, particularly that of the african-diaspora is very pragmatic and a little jazzy, hotfoot spells and mojo hands.
But really the goals can be anything at all just like any other prayer/magic/whatever.
Im not sure about this idea of power coming from crafting. I mean Im familiar with the idea, just not a specific belief. The crafting of anything, fetishes, mojo hands, poppets, spell jars, whatever... serves as a locus for the will, you have to focus on this object with your intent for the outcome, they're physical spells essentially, They're much like tablet petitions or ofuda, theyre very common fare for all animist beliefs.
Depending on the tradition you come from, your goals will be different, some traditions preach a lot of self sufficiency some preach a lot of self-sacrifice, some preach a balance with natural and supernatural forces...
Specifically since you asked about the african diaspora, throughout all the traditions, there seems to be running trends of health naturally, truth and justice (see the previously mentioned ekpe), defense from minor hexes, dark spirits and bad luck, reinforcing good luck. Really pretty standard stuff, what you'd expect.
I dont really feel like Im answering your question though. Are you looking for ideas for your game or something? You need specific crafts to incorporate into the story? You want like a list of craftable items for players to make?
I've got my supplies packed up, I'm about to head off to ye olde Blood Acre. Got your email, I'll try to tease out some other results, maybe bring a small snack-y meal for between the circles, let the first fire just kinda burn with minimal attention, etc.
Finished the Hallowing Rosary and the Hendecarch Rosary, still waiting for the last bit for Faithful and Passionate Gods or whateverthefuck it's called.
I'll try to find that book.
This is actually answering quite a bit. I mainly need some basics to build off of.
I'm using bluefluke's psychonaut manual as my starting point for the western stuff, But I had nothing to build off of for the african stuff. You've at least given me a place to start from.
> bluefluke's psychonaut manual as my starting point for the western stuff
I think something that may be worth pointing out, and something you can use as your jumping off point for getting into the animist stuff, is that one of the fundamental differences between most esotericism and animism is the focus... esoteric thought is very much about finding the external, internally, its a self focused discipline, like the psychonaut manual. Animism is heavily focused on the external, finding the internal, externally, how you are tied into the ancestors, into the environment, how the spirits interact. Im not knocking one or the other, Im just saying their focuses are often inverse of one another. Esotericism will tell you to look internally to understand the outside world, animism will tell you to look to the outside world to understand the self.
Thats a gross oversimplification of the concepts as those in this thread will understand, but for a fictional game setting, I think it would work nicely for developing some drama and story.
Thanks, As you say that sort of drama is what I'm excited to get into.
And so I know i understand what you mean
Esotericism looks to find out about the world at large
Animism looks to find one's own place in the world?
From what little I've read (psychonaut's manual) it also seems esotericism can be used as the internal looking to the internal. that is to say figuring out yourself in relation to just yourself.
If so could Animism also sometimes be used to find the external in the external, to find another thing's place in the world?
Also, would christian theurgy be considered similar to animism? Islamic theurgy too? It occurs to me a player may ask to play a Jesuit or someone spreading Islam (not sure what that would be called. Missionary?).
And gross oversimplifications seem to be my specialty lately, with writing a story heavily influenced by no less then 4 books I've never read, and now running a game set in a time period I'm not very familiar with, on a continent i know almost nothing of, using concepts I only have passing knowledge of. My motto is "I have no Idea what I am doing."
>Esotericism looks to find out about the world at large
>Animism looks to find one's own place in the world?
more like, Esotericism looks to understand the world outside by looking internally "as above so below"
whereas animism seeks to discover truths about themselves from outside "how am I like my ancestors, what part of me do I share with them, or my community, or that tree or those rocks"
Theyre both achieving awareness from opposite sides by realizing the same truth, that the outside is the inside is the outside. Its a continuum.
>If so could Animism also sometimes be used to find the external in the external, to find another thing's place in the world?
again I think thats an oversimplification of the belief systems, but in the context of a game setting, that seems reasonable.
>would christian theurgy be considered similar to animism?
no those are ceremonial magic, while animists have ceremony, and ceremonial magic workings, its not quite the same. The techniques and results may be similar but the underlying beliefs are not, were getting back into the religion versus practical "magic" thing here.
>not sure what that would be called. Missionary?
I believe islam refers to it as da'wah but Im not an islamic scholar at all.
>And gross oversimplifications seem to be my specialty lately
>"I have no Idea what I am doing."
Well, let's look at it here, you want to create a genuine experience, which, for yourplayers, is going to mean a good story. None of your players is actually trying to adopt animism or become a jesuit or something. You're playing a game, nail down the drama, the "sides" the reasons, fill in the gaps with some real life cool stuff from actual occult and religious practices, write the story call it a day.
I dont think basing your systems occult/magic/faith system word for word off of several thousands of years of occult and magical practice would be expected let alone encouraged. They want a game not a comparative religion class.
>They want a game not a comparative religion class.
Those are some very true words right there, and I think you're right, I may have been getting to hung on the fine details and real world stuff. It happens sometimes with interesting topics. Now that I have more information I can lean on my main specialty of improvising the rest.
Still want to read that book "A Bird Dance near Saturday City" though, the description makes it sound very fascinating. Finding it was easy, getting it may have to wait.
This has been a lot of help.
No problem, good luck with the game. I would personally gloss over the deeper occult meanings and focus on the unique thematic elements of the different magic(k)al practices, the way they describe spirits, local flavors, etc. Thats always the "cool" part about studying different magical systems and its what will make your players characters feel different. The african diaspora player may be invoking his clans raven fetish through a small carved idol or a bird skull, while your wester esoteric character will strike a pose and focus his mind on his own mental constructs with a chant or something.
Both of them are just getting +2 to armor class, the flavor difference and character identity is what matters. Have a fun game hope I helped.