>blabbering about how we are unable to understand something thanks to how 'limited' our brain is >starts to define life with humans Even a bacteria is considered as a life. Plants too. Also, you don't stab someone on the street with a knife randomly, without a reason (unless you have a mental illness, that is). So yes, existence and life does matter, it's not there just for show, or because someone spilled its morning coffee on the matrix server machine.
Absurdism is good on some level since it questions the biggest mysteries, but the pic you uploaded is just some edgy bullshit.
>>17310656 If it matters to you then it matters to me. If it matters to a third then it matters to three. >>17310744 But understand that there's nothing to understand; when I say I have no thought on absurdism I mean that it's possible to refine absurdism into its math, use that math to create a physical version of it and grind that substance into a powder to be taken as a psychedelic drug. What I mean is that I literally stop having thoughts when I take THAT drug.
"But that doesn't make sense, Ms. Queen!"
Not to you, maybe, but I find not having thoughts to be very commonplace.
>life and universe is and will always be beyond human understanding >literally nothing holds universal value because such values are made up by the people whom you can always disagree with
It's the worst philosophy according to majority because it doesn't promote progress or self-improvement in any way: there's no higher meaning to discover and no universal principle to follow. Accepting this completely will turn you into human garbage who doesn't care about anything anymore because your life doesn't matter in the slightest.
I know this from experience: I don't feel like striving for greatness or achieving anything because all is meaningless. How can anything matter when one day your consiousness will vanish?
>>17311595 Just because science can form predictive models that work, does not mean there is inherent meaning in anything, it just means that the physical world has certain laws governing its function. Absurdism is stating that there is no deeper meaning or purpose behind this.
Alright folks, I will prove that "meaning" "exists" "objectively":
>Humans are part of the universe, not just as an "observer", but as something that exists within it >Your mind and its contents exist, therefore they're also a part of the universe >You give your own meaning to things >Meaning is a part of you that exists in your vision of certain things >Your vision exists, and so does its contents >Meaning is a part of your vision >Therefore, meaning exists objectively
Prove me wrong, it is objectively meaningless as it is nothing but a semantical conclusion (just like this entire topic), but go ahead and try :^)
Meaning is a human concept, there is no meaning in nature, just like how there is no good or evil in nature. Life has no meaning. and some people are just to weak and can't accept this so they use mental gymnastics or try to sugar coat their existance because if they will acept this undisputed fact then their whole life and motivation to conform, crumbles.
I'm fairly sure that you're going to respond to stuff you don't agree with in this way.
You seem to be unaware of how language works. Semantics are nothing but tools of communication that work based on the definitions we give them. You can add the question "but how do you know?" to literally any statement we make, including this one. After this point, it loses value, as you have to address direct experience, and that is something that precedes words.
When we discuss such abstract concepts like "meaning", "exist", "objective", "universe" and "observer", then we will hardly get to a satisfactory conclusion due to their ambiguity. So they're not "assumptions"; there is simply nothing to be known about and in these words.
That was the whole point of my post. To get people like you to respond with even more meaningless blabbery, such as "those are assumptions".
>>17311741 Do you understand what a predictive model is?
Im saying that simply because there are laws that govern the functioning of the universe, and that we can discover them and use them to make predictive models, that does not imply that there is inherent purpose behind those laws.
If you don't understand that, Im afraid I cant make it any more grade school for you.
>>17312080 how can meaning exist objectively if there is none? you yourself are building constructions that show how something actually is based on an assertion that this is impossible.
just because it is abstract doesnt mean it doesnt exist. absurdism is clever, but it misses a point that is right in front of it.
>>17311741 those laws are merely predictive models
>>17311332 >If it matters to you then it matters to me. If it matters to a third then it matters to three. i think you understand it here. the part that matters comes from people, or perhaps from a part of people. the meaning doesnt come from the external world
>>17312465 >I think That's not an assumption, it's a claim. >you have to address direct experience Is that a bad thing? >due to their ambiguity They've never been ambiguous to me.
I only asked because proving YOU wrong would be dangerous, but showing that the assumptions of your argument are wrong is much safer. Indeed, if we make all the assumptions that you made, we come to the same conclusion that you got; your logic IS correct. It's just that the logic itself relies on assumptions that can be shown as inaccurate.
The implication that because "humans can't fully understand things" we have "everything has no meaning" seems a bit off. What if the "truth" that humans cannot fathom has tons of meaning and order but completely beyond our capability to understand?
>>17312609 >That's not an assumption, it's a claim. According to dictionary sources, it can be both.
>Is that a bad thing?
No, it isn't. It goes to show that some things must be taken as self-explanatory on semantics, for the sake of having meaningful discussions without asking for proof for every single statement we make.
>They've never been ambiguous to me. Then you have your own definition of these words just like I have my own. So, while for you my reasoning is based on assumptions because it uses concepts in a way that doesn't suit *your* definitions of these concepts, it may not be an assumption to me, as I give them a meaning that differs from yours.
>It's just that the logic itself relies on assumptions that can be shown as inaccurate.
There can be no "assumption", as there is nothing inherently "true" or "wrong" in my statements but the understanding you have of them. They're just words, and ones that are particularly incredibly open to interpretations.
>>17312915 You do realize anyone can fill in the name field with the string "The Fairy Queen" and post whatever they want, right? It's not a given that the person who responds will be her. That's the point of imageboard anonymity.
>>17312486 OP Here. What brought me to absurdism is really.. absurd.
I came up with the thoughts i wrote down in my OP Post pic myself, i thought i found something to believe in myself (i wouldn't call it a religion) and, no shit, i called it myself absurdism. after quick internet research, there already was this way of thinking called absurdism and, holy shit, it was exactly what i just made up. Its like theres a deeper meaning behind all of this or something.
>>17310656 In horror literature, H.P. Lovecraft does it and the whole 'you cannot know true form' thing and being driven to madness by eldritch horrors and the pointlessness of existence vell. I find the concept applied to real life of the regular actions of outerdimensional beings causing us to go insane merely because the everyday things they do is alien to us; and the thought of either a God of Evil that fulfills our desires for suffering, doesn't care about us or God not existing altogether, absolutely horrifying [spoiler]Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn[/spoiler]
>>17311332 God damn it. It's the self righteous tripfag from earlier. (This has nothing to do with your post by the way, I just don't like you personally). You're the same faggot that literally said "I am perfect and enlightened". Fucking hypocrite.
Yeahh absurdism is fucking retarded. People who believe it are just sad individuals who have lost direction and meaning in their lives, so they try to explain it by saying there just isn't meaning in life at all.
OP's picture IS nihlism though. Absurdism is more or less calling nihlists pussies who need to get over it. The whole point of absurdity is embracing the absurd nature of the human condition. "One must imagine Sisyphus happy".
You should really research something before you form an opinion on it.
>>17310656 Absurdism seems like an edgy hipster teenagers attempt at creating a philosophy. If it was created by an actual full grown adult they should feel ashamed of themselves.
The biggest problem with the theory, if it can be called such is that it's attempting to point out the flaws inherent in all humans, while being written by...a human.
If the universe wrote me a letter explaining that I try and make the universe conform to my own rigid ideas of how things should work, I might sit up and listen. But coming from another human being it immediately loses all value, or at least is reduced to the value of any other philosophy or attempt to standardize how humans think about things. (mind control to put it unkindly)
>>17319026 Yes the whole thing is hilariously self defeating.
This is what happens when people become excluded from society and have plenty of neet time to sit around philosophizing.
Not only do they not relate to society, they also don't relate to their own thoughts and feelings. The nihilism or fatalism this exclusion causes, is mistaken by them as a kind of revelatory objectivism. (protip you Neitzchtards, humans will never be objective)
>>17319026 Don't you just love it when edgy teens "discover" nihilism, interpret it all wrong, and use it as an excuse to be annoying edgelords? It's like they all fail to realise the point: existence is intrinsically meaningless, therefore we make our own meaning. Not, hurr durr life is meaningless therefore everything is meaningless. .
>>17319064 It's more of an empathy thing. Pinch your arm. Does it hurt? Would you not care for causing the same pain to another person unprovoked? Would you kill their mother just because you want to? Would you not care for the psychological pain they feel contemplating such scene?
>>17319249 It could. Have you ever watched a man receiving a strong impact on his testicles? You could define that as empathy: a change of your feelings based on the feelings of others.
If your point is that it doesn't matter because the suffering of others isn't yours, that isn't the case for everyone, as some people suffer when others suffer. Or less exaggeratedly, they don't like to see others feeling pain unprovoked.
You could say that everything we do is for our own pleasure, but that still doesn't change the fact that your pleasure would or wouldn't be based on the pleasure of others in varying degrees.
If you don't care, we can't force you to anyway, but keep in mind that your behavior isn't useful to society, and in fact it can be potentially dangerous if you're willing to do *anything* for your own's sake.
>>17311564 Assuming you aren't baiting, anon isn't saying he accepts absurdism because of his experiences/life/etc, he's saying absurdism is frowned upon as a belief because it promotes people to not try or give a damn about anything, and AFTER he accepted it, because nothing matters in the 'grand scheme' it resulted in him not striving for what others would call greatness.
But the thing is the universe doesn't have to care or even acknowledge life within it exists, but we as a species have worked out almost everything about the universe and its fundamental concepts. Once complete knowledge is attained, the next step is to dominate and control it. Same goes for life and death. Eventually death wont be a fact anymore, immortality will make death an option.
My problem with this image is that it's trying to explain concepts beyond human understanding. The author is a human, and thus can't go "off-frame" as he describes either, unless this was written by a cthulhu or nessie.
>>17319246 Meaningless is the default state of things, there's nothing artificial about it.
>>17310656 Life, however, gives meaning, there's nothing artificial about that.
Don't believe me? Hold your breath for as long as you can.
(Go ahead, I'll wait.)
So how did that go? If life had no meaning, you'd, at the very least, be able to hold your breath until you passed out and your involuntary reflexes kicked in and took over breathing for you, but you couldn't even achieve that, could you?
Life gives meaning to survival, survival being the instinct from which all other meaning springs forth.
This is as true for the individual, as it is for the collective. A billion years of struggle with that meaning, across millions of species and countless generations, some conscious, most not, of spreading, adapting, reproducing, eventually, leading to you and billions like you, who for have hundreds of thousands of years, questioned the meaning of it all.
And for all that questioning and all that doubting, you cannot earnestly deny the significance of it, or you wouldn't be here to post about it.
Only the rocks and the stars could speak of meaninglessness, but those of us beings who are alive, have no choice, but to experience meaning. However much we may try to deny it, even when we cannot put it into words nor place definition upon it, having a perspective precludes a lack of meaning, and only those with no perspective, only the inanimate and the dead, can claim to have found and understand meaninglessness.
Plenty of time for meaningless when you're dead - in the meantime, every breath you take screams for meaning, and applies meaning to everything in your experience, whether you wish it or not - such is the curse of being alive.
>I rarely see niggas go full retard, but I'm always impressed when I do.
meh, not that guy, and i am too lazy to even read his post, but he isn't completely wrong about the mind control aspect. all communication is a form of mind control, at least in that, i am trying to induce your brain to think a certain thought by putting said thought into groups of letters or sounds.
just think, all these thoughts you are thinking as you read this, were once thoughts in my mind as i wrote this. sure, you are thinking these thoughts in a sort of virtual environment, safely partitioned of from the rest of your brain, but you are still thinking them, and you are thinking them because i am making you think them.
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