Hello /x/, I had a thought I'd like you to all poke holes in:
So, in the movie The Matrix, the premise is that machines use humans as batteries. Sort of a dumb idea, as people have pointed out humans would require a greater energy input than they would output--not a very efficient battery.
However, if that were the case, why go through the trouble of designing The Matrix at all? Why work to develop egos, identities, families, friends, enemies, experiences (all fake and within the Matrix) if it were only the bodies' raw energy/heat output that they were after?
Now, I'd like to switch gears for a second. As far as we know, consciousness does not operate in the realm of Newtonian physics--"Free Will" stems, not from the absolute fatalistic determination of Newtonian physics, but from the quantum oscillations of micro-tubules near our neurons. Theoretically, even with a perfect computer, one could not determine the precise outcome from a series of given inputs, when dealing with consciousness; otherwise, the robots (back to the movie now) could have foreseen the rebellion.
(If anyone has any input or sources relating to scientific feasibility of free will, please let me know)
In the movie, the Matrix is reality as you and I know it. Something that you're familiar with, I'm sure, is that existence is suffering. (Not all the time, of course.) The Buddha called it "dukkha", and this is the First Noble Truth.
He proposed that the wild swings from joy to misery, happiness to sadness, comfort to discomfort--clinging to the "good", aversion to the "bad", and the suffering all of this causes--could all be eliminated by, among other things, equanimity.
In my own personal studies, I've found this word, equanimity, repeatedly stressed. "Let the emotions be as water off a duck's back", "do not react to
these fleeting, hollow sensations, whether they be pleasant or painful." Seeing life and existence as ethereal, false, refusing to become tangled in the web, conscious to stay unmoved...
Now, back to the question of why so many humans are needed to be hooked into The Matrix to generate power, and where that power comes from.
My theory is this: it comes from the oscillations of a human brain in extreme pleasure or extreme pain, and from the changing states between. Neurons fire in different patterns, or more frequently when under certain conditions, and the brain's consumption of oxygen hardly increases. If the machines were able to harness the biochemical current given off by human brains, the entire need for a complicated Matrix and intelligent humans is explained.
Taking it one step further: those who are able to mediate themselves and their reactions through meditation or other equanimity-cultivating practices would be "protesting" the system by not feeding power into it. The distress or decadence caused by the robots via the Matrix (even though it is all purely fictitious) and the resulting reactions to it by humans ("real") is how they power themselves. Those who learn not to react, not to feed into the system, are the ones who are getting humanity closer to freedom from illusion.
The human brain is one of the most powerful computers ever and is also ecological
If you could harvest his power you could do any calculations easily whit a ridiculously low cost.
If the matrix is real the reasons why whe are trapped here are more interesting
We lost the war to the machines?
Maybe we choose to live here because if apply this could be paradise?
There is several levels of the matrix, is worth to scape? No use to scape this semi - paradise to go to a dessert to drink piss
The machines become sentient a long time ago, maybe they trap us here because they feel lonely.
The machines are obviously more powerful than us , there's is a Good chance of Deus Ex Machina ,so he may create a imperfect paradise to imperfect being's to become better ,like our world
The matrix could be our prision or our crisalid
a place to trap us or to grow, is up to you .
How could you be trap in a infinity space?
Just find something that you love and do it, and if your aim is to scape remember to prepare yourself for the worst. Who could know what is outside of the matrix?, maybe a dessert, maybe a jungle, maybe a advance civilization who live in peace with the machines who knows?
Only neo he scape the outer matrix and it costs his life and any anwser who requires your life as payment is not a answer you want to find.
As we are vessels of flesh and don't experience the world and everything within it directly but through our forms, everything is perception, my friend. And that's not even taking on account Aphopenia, hierophany and pareidolia.
thats' the thing, even if we are a gestalt of mind, body and soul it doesn't help us to be better. Just makes us be.
As I see it, they already know everything about themselves. its a Self aware AI and robot it knows all its specifications, software, programming and physical components. and I don't think they have a capacity for insight. they are practical, not esoteric or thinkers, that's part of what makes conflict with the humans.
I feel like you're going back and forth between understanding that The Matrix was a fictional movie, not rooted in reality and thinking that it was a surreptitious revelation of "the truth."
>As far as we know...Free Will" stems, not from the absolute fatalistic determination of Newtonian physics, but from the quantum oscillations of micro-tubules near our neurons
don't say things like this. you made it up. it is not accepted science.
>Now, back to the question of why so many humans are needed to be hooked into The Matrix to generate power, and where that power comes from.
because in a FICTIONAL movie, this is how things worked, and it isn't something to be looked into too deeply. this guy >>17241675 tried to explain that to you but you missed the point by a mile.
>That still doesn't make sense, though. Processing for what? They were already sentient before enslaving humanity.
It was an art piece made for and by non-scientists to make money and like that guy mentioned details are manipulated so that the story is simple enough to appeal to anyone. Don't try to convince yourself that there's anything deep going on here. Art can be a jumping off point for examining the real world, but getting into the minutia of a false reality is a waste of time for everyone involved.
Long story short, its so because of the script.
and/or only makes sense IN universe.
Altough I have to say that truth can be found from the strangest places and not necessarily on purpose.
I do know that it was a fictional movie; maybe I took the "science" part of science fiction too seriously. This post was just an attempt at my putting together the few pieces I do have and relating them to something most of you have probably seen, just for fun.
>don't say things like this. you made it up. it is not accepted science.
No, I assure you, it is rooted in science. The brain's functioning is poorly understood, but we are getting a better idea of it.
>suggest that EEG rhythms (brain waves) also derive from deeper level microtubule vibrations
If you have any other relevant info on the existence of biological free will, please let me know.
make those microtubules to vibrate on this frequency
Clear your mind of toughs, if some tough apear just gently ignore it avoid fueling your toughs whit feelings and your feelings whit toughs, become present.
>Computers =/= Buddha
Your mind is clouded by the matrix.
>What does Quantum Oscillations mean to you?
Ok, so this is my current understanding:
Here's the Quantum part:
These microtubles can vibrate at only certain levels of energy (quanta; so i.e. position 1, 2, 3 or 4, NEVER position 1.2, 2.5, 3.x, etc). If X number of them vibrate at a certain threshold, this could potentially be the beginning of an action potential--an actual start of one, as opposed to an incoming number of excititory postsynaptic potentials (it's these EPSPs "minus" the InhibitoryPSPs which tell a neuron to fire).
Merriam Webster's definition of Oscillation:
: the act of regularly moving from one position to another and back to the original position
: a frequent change from one state, position, or amount to another
: the act of changing from one belief, feeling, etc., to an opposite one
All three definitions apply, albeit in different ways :)
If anyone knows elsewise, let me know.
Source: psychology degree and reading physics.
>not accepted science
Do you even know what science is? It means applied knowledge. So you're accepting certain knowledge, because someone else determined it to work for them. But their knowledge may be incomplete or flawed and exploring outside the range of "accepted science" as you call it is exactly what this board is about. Even things which might seem inefficient to you might be made into something super efficient by an intelligence evolved far beyond "accepted science" minds.
You refer to string theory - it's highly theoretical and haven't been proven in 20 years.
100% it's going to be dropped entirely soon.
And the mambo-jamo about neurons... please. Open a book and stop interpreting shit in such a stupid manner.
op you might like this, it gets a little word salad-y at times but it's an interesting combination of carlos castaneda and the matrix
and in answer to your original postulation, i think the raw heat of a living body is not so much compared to the emotional energy - loosh, if you will - generated by feelings. i think our feelings really are the key, and our abilities of self doubt and self reflection are both the keys to critical thinking and also our fatal flaws. so this whole rigmarole of a production was necessary to generate those feels. i don't think we unwillingly signed on though. even the baddies are playing their part i guess. i still haven't made up my mind exactly but anyways good movie, enduring presentation of more obscure concepts, never fails to pique my interest
I think the premise of machines using humans for electrical energy isn't that far fetched as "accepted science" believers think. Science has become this dogmatic religion which tries to sort what is acceptable to believe works, disregarding the fringes and uncommonly known features which can and do work.
Take a neodymium magnet and move it over the palm of your hand. You should be able to feel the magnetic field shifting if you are healthy.
I don't know if you actually know differently from me, or if you're just trolling. If the former, please explain in your own words or give me a helpful book that you have personally read on the subject.
Thanks for an on-topic reply. The site looks a little...red flaggy, but I'll take a look.
Some people believe that the archons have created our current society that is based on fear in order to harvest our loosh energy.
This is remarkably similar to the Matrix movie. I wonder if they knew.