Honestly, an eternity in Hell isn't justifiable, no matter

You're not the Gatekeeper.

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>>17240154
>I should be allowed to be a shithead without repercussions
>I think people who take the lives of others intentionally or for sport should get a break
>There's nothing wrong with committing sexual deviancy against others forcefully, even if it's children

>>17240154
it is.

for some fucks.

>>17240883
It's just material existence, anon. The pain you cause ends eventually.

heres the thing, if god is all knowing, then he will know when a person has TRULY learned the error of their ways, and has changed. The purpose of punishment is to teach a lesson a.k.a enable a person to see the world from a new perspective. accepting responsibility for and the consequences of your actions is an investment in your own integrity.

you ever just try and freak your self out.

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>>17240154

>>17240909
A very modern concept. Most understandings of punishment have historically focused on estranging unacceptable behaviour, not on correcting it.

>>17240915
I like to sit around and freak my self out.

What if a human year is like 10,000 years some where else. Like dog years to human years. So maybe a human life could be your sentence in eternity, when you die it is up..

>>17240926
That's a great point, thank you. A good parent wouldn't abandon their child for misbehavior, they would do everything in their power to correct and "save" them, just as God is said to "save" his children.

>>17240154
You derive your ethics from emotional kneejerk. You as a mortal, constricted to mortal language (therefore thought processes), shouldn't bother trying to understand concepts and realms far beyond you which may or may not exist, let alone ethical justifications for the existence of such places.

>>17240949
Jesus provided the knowledge necessary to save yourself. The rest is up to you.

>>17240956
Oh really?

>>17240154
>But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

>>17240925
Underrated.

>>17240154
Life isn't fair

>>17240940
How many fucking drugs did you do?

>>17240154
I feel that after awhile your body would just get used to the pain and it would stop hurting

>>17240154
I wouldn't worry about it, none of it is real.

>>17242636
The pain you know now is material. I wonder what eternal agony of the soul is.

>>17240154
Hell requires an overt refusal to admit you are sinful. Any attempt at redemption, any request for forgiveness is enough to save a soul from Hell. Like Purgatory still ain't great but it's a process of gradual spiritual purification until you achieve salvation.

>>17240154

You're an eternal being who cannot live in heaven, and there is only one other eternal destination.

You need to stop thinking God is not just, that God is not holy, that God is not righteous, and repent. Between the two of you, you and God, you're the one with the unjustifiable actions, not God.

>>17240909
Don't think of it as punishment designed for rehabilitation; that's impossible.

Think of it as eternal torment, and think of eternity as always being "now". It will help clear up your thinking.

The people who avoided hell did not do so because they took responsibility for their actions; they did so by accepting a pardon for their actions.

The same pardon available to all of you.

>>17242319
Yes. Jesus removed the sin barrier from between man and God, and allowed the offering of the gift of salvation to whoever believes in Jesus.

Salvation is a free gift to be accepted, not a reward for being "good". There are none good but God.

>>17242636

You have no experience in your resurrection body, so that analogy between what your current body habituates to, and what your resurrection body will habituate to, might not be apt.

>>17242746
Not really, no. And purgatory is catholic fanfic.

>>17242751
No, the version of God you believe in isn't justifiable. It's probably because, being flawed and human, the god you've invented necessarily reflects your own weaknesses, but regardless, it's a flawed, unjustifiable being. For instance, your "two destinations" line doesn't work. God should have made more alternatives. It's unjustifiable that God didn't.

>>17242820
I don't believe in a version of God.

There is a God, and He knows me, and I know Him. And one day, I will know Him as He knows me.

There is only life and death.

The living go to heaven; the dead go to hell. It's just the way things are. You should put more energy into playing the hand you were dealt, and less energy in playing "what if" games.

For you to judge God, not only must you place yourself above God, you must imagine that your judgments matter to anybody but you.

>>17242844
>I don't believe in a version of God.
And you just admitted you're too stupid to even comprehend what a belief is. Man /x/ has the most retarded Christians in the world.

>>17240154
Protip : nobody send one in hell except himself.

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I think you guys just need to man up.

You don't want to go to hell? Then man up and learn something.

>but God made us
>were slaves
>he sends us to hell

Get EDUCATED on some shit guys, read about WHO created us and WHO saves us.

Jesus Christ, even in Hindu scriptures there are MANY planes of hell, but you go there depending on your state of karma.

>but I didn't do nothun
Then why are you worried. Rather than sitting in front of your computer trying to kill God go do some research on everything you think is holding you back.

>>17242851

I don't believe in my mother.

I know my mother.

I don't "believe in a version of God".

I know God, and He knows me. And despite what He knows about me, He chooses to love me, and bless me, greatly.

>>17242875
you already demonstrated you don't know what beliefs are and you're too stupid and under-educated to have anything intelligent to say. I'm sorry, that's simply the truth.

>>17240154
That's mathematical, only an eternity in hell equal an eternity of hell as a pain.

>>17242870
>>17242870
>>17242870
There is a bunch of shit "they" are hiding from us. Think about all these fancy fraternities with all the secrets, they have the power over regular mankind because of all the occult secrets and elite order of the magi...

And Jesus is still the Saviour, but there is more to it than base Catholicism/Christianity, and there is more to it than "becoming God" and "killing God"...

The "Astral war" isn't two sided, it isn't between just Yahweh and Lucifer, it isn't two sided.

You can still be free while being devoted to God, but you have to actually understand what God is and which God you serve.

>>17242870
Why would you want to worship a guy who made you to be a slave and then send you to eternal suffering if you displease him. Because that's essentially what it boils down to. Like if that's the best answer you've got, I'll just go to hell. At least there'll be some good company.

This is a problem among teens in the US who have been raised in oppressive or abusive evangelical environments. They actually believe that there personal beliefs reflect absolute universal truths and are genuinely confused and even irritated when the facts are explained to them.

The fact is that no human in the species history has ever shown the capacity for knowing absolute truth. Anyone claiming such has invariably just been shown to be someone with no grounding in philosophy who doesn't comprehend their own limitations. In short, they're people who have never examined their own thoughts or beliefs once in their lives. In the case of evangelicals, it's because intelligent introspection is actively, aggressively discouraged.

All versions, all interpretations, all notions of "God" are personal beliefs. And none of them are demonstrably absolute truths. Just personal beliefs. And this is true of literally every human being in existence. To not understand this, to argue that no, your beliefs aren't even your beliefs, is just proof positive that you're an isolated, poorly educated person who's never thought about these things, that you're woefully behind most of the human species when it comes to understanding even the basics of your reality. You are further from any truth, like God, than most other people.

>>17242899
Because lel fucking demiurge The Real God doesn't make them male and female

>profit
Hypostasis of the Archons

The God who is the Holy Spirit is beyond all physical manifestations, however we can go to hell according to Hindu texts if we do really bad.

We get reincarnated depending on our state of karma. We save ourselves in a way if we don't waste this life being a fuckwad

>>17242908
Illuminati disinformation shill.
>name in header

"God" isn't just a personal interprwtation. You guys CAN know God for yourselves but they want to hide it from you.

>proof
>evidence
>claims

You go out there and you figure it out for yourself.

>>17242887

You don't seem to realize that when you believe in something, and your belief strengthens, it turns into knowledge.

Your belief in a thing actually stops you from knowing a thing.

>>17242899
God made it possible for the human race to avoid all going to hell, personally, by sacrificing Himself on our behalf.

God is worthy of worship, and there is no company in hell. You will be floating in the dark, on fire, screaming, forever.

I don't care how edgy you think you are; that is a fate to be avoided at all costs.

>>17242908
Jesus said, "I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life; no man comes to the Father but by Me."

He said He is God, and proved He is God.

He is The Truth, and yes, you can know Him, if you cease your infantile rebellion against Him long enough to open your eyes to the light.

I would not wish the upbringing you would provide children by this statement to anybody.

>>17242765
That's some fucking bullshit man and you know it. How was a Chinaman half a world suppose to believe in Christ if he's never even heard of the guy.

>>17242973
Dude if I could find the quote I would.

Jesus says "I am the vine" and the Father is the Tree and we are the leaves..

>>17242988
half a world away.

>>17242988
Many Chinese are coming to the Lord today. Maybe millions in the past two years or so.

What makes you think any of us deserve salvation?

>>17240154

This is the realization that seeded my departure from Christianity.

How could someone commit so much evil, in their short 0-120 year lifespan on earth, to warrant an ETERNITY of suffering?

Take even Adolph Hitler. If you were to hold him responsible for all the millions of lives lost in the hollocaust, totalling the millions of years of life and experience, the total sum of life lost would only be a spec of dust in the wake of eternity.

>>17242989
John 15
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. ...

You presuppose that because God manifested Himself to us in three persons, the trinity, that there are either three Gods, or that Jesus is not God.

You need to at least apprehend this thing we call the Trinity; One God, revealed to us in three persons.

>>17242954
Even what we "know" can turn out to be wrong. You're dumb enough and self absorbed enough that you're actually trying to say that this is true for everyone and everything except you and your beliefs. And you actually believe that, which is what's so sad and childish. I'm not kidding, your particular infliction you're suffering there isn't new or even especially unusual, it's just a demonstration of a person entirely unwilling to really think about their own beliefs.

>>17243010
Jesus paid for those murders on the cross.

People who are never born again are born spiritually dead, live their spiritually dead lives, and die, and then suffer the second death, which is to be cast into the lake of fire.

There is no place in heaven for dead people.

You have told God you want nothing to do with Him, and He has accommodated you.

>>17243017
Yes. There exists objective truth.

You have been taught that there is only relative truths, and that everyone can have their own relative truths.

You have been deceived.

>>17242973
Jesus didn't say anything. Some people told you he said something and you decided to believe it without evidence. And now you get angry and hostile, despite Jesus telling you not to, whenever someone points out how weak your belief is.

What's amazing and sad is how much of what Jesus supposedly said you ignore. It's not just that you're dumb, it's not just that you cling to a belief you've never really thought about intelligently, it's that you don't even really believe it. Ultimately, it's just a smoke screen for your ego. /x/ Christians are the worst kind of Christians, belligerent young idiots angry at the world and hoping that Jesus will somehow validate their bitterness, without ever bothering to read what Jesus actually said on the subject. Your suffering is your fault. Not ours.

>>17243025
Jesus said many things, some of which were recorded by His disciples in the bible under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

You are so angry and hateful against God, for no reason.

>>17243024
No one had to "teach" me that objective truth is not attainable by the limits of the human mind, that's easily deduced by watching humans. And if there is an absolute truth out there it's almost certainly that anyone claiming to know the absolute truth is full of shit. There is literally no person in the world less trust worthy than some moron claiming they know the truth absolutely and objectively. Such people are either uneducated, ignorant retards scared of admitting they're wrong, or lying conmen trying to trick you.

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When the fuck did /x/ turn into a fucking sermon?

>>17243009
I wasn't talking about modern day. Why would a good man from feudal China go to hell if he didn't believe in Christ? I know the Catholics think he wouldn't have. I think they have some kind of rule about it. Protecting the innocent or something.
>What makes you think any of us deserve salvation?
Well if any of this is true then I'd say living a good life would lead you to salvation.

>>17243035
There is an absolute truth out there, and He died on a cross to pay for your sins, because He would rather die than live without you.

The God of Abraham is a cruel and callous individual.

>>17243010
Christ never said there was eternal damnation, so what's your problem? It's pretty obvious there could be no eternal spiritual damnation for acts committed in a temporal, physical universe, especially one where we don't make the rules.

>>17243048
And what if you were told by God that nobody lived a "good life"?

That there is none good but God? That the standard is to be perfect, as God in heaven is perfect?

What then?


>>17243047
mmmmm, Bakshi

>>17240154
I agree, but sometimes the punisher just wants to banish the sinful instead of bringing them to the light. There are enough Christians who believe that you can be forgiven for anything, so just be one of those if you're losing sleep over it.

>>17243035
>objective truth is not attainable by the limits of the human mind,
That isn't true.

>>17243058
To His enemies, they in their rebellion against Him would see Him this way, yes.

To His family, quite the opposite.

>>17243063
I'd say, "what the fuck holding people to a standard you yourself declared impossible for them? That's unjustifiable."

>>17243060
Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

--Jesus of Nazareth

>>17243063
>>17243072
"Worse, you're not even helping out, you're just sitting there being a judgmental prick. Unbelievable, god, what kind of crazy, fucked up trip are you even on? Because it doesn't fly."

>>17243072

Even if you provide to them a way to satisfy that requirement, at your own expense, which included being wrongfully tortured to death?

>>17243071
I'm not his enemy. It's simply an objectively verifiable fact. That god, as depicted, is a dick. Period.

Your argument is the argument of an enabler. You're like the mom of that stupid "affluenza" kid. Nothing that kid does can be wrong in her eyes.

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I like the part where God fucked a virgin with his holy jizz to make himself into a human litch all to fix the sin problems he started by making so many mistakes in his first week.

Op: you're right. If Hell does exist, it was not created by the divine.

>>17243058
The God of Abraham is the Father in the Trinity, he is the godhead, the manifested cosmos, he is the power and glory and violence and beauty and intensity of all manifested creation. So, yes, he would seem cruel and callous by some definitions, as at that time he had not entered our lifestream in the form of the Son. When it came time for him to enter into our world in the form of the Son, a new relationship with him was created, which is why Christ often said that the old laws have past, that the Sabbath that we used to look to in the external cosmos had now been born amongst us in the flesh. It is also why he said "none shall come to the Father except through the Son," because now the power and the glory and violence and creative might and, yes, cruelty and intensity of the Father, had been incarnated on Earth as a man.

>>17243078

Not sure how you still miss the gospel, in that Jesus died in our place, so that we could go to heaven.

Adam and Eve were born into paradise, sinned, fell, and died.

Our entire race from then on was damned.

God did not owe us salvation.

>>17243089
God hasn't provided any such way to satisfy that requirement.

>>17243063
>And what if you were told by God that nobody lived a "good life"?
>That there is none good but God? That the standard is to be perfect, as God in heaven is perfect?
>What then?
Well that really depends on the context of the conversation and the situation I'm currently in.
>Chinese dirt farmer 600 years ok.
You're fucking crazy
>Me modern day to a Christian with his head up his ass
OK
>Me to God after dying
Why are you doing this? Stop bullying humanity.

>>17243091
Yes, you're His enemy. You are the child of His enemy, and you have told Him you want nothing to do with Him.

Jesus said that you are either for Him, or against Him.

And you are not for Him. Nor do you have any means by which to deal with Him, or impose your will upon Him.

>>17243098
All of that is completely ridiculous. Why should I be punished for what other people did? That's not just, that's idiotic.

Everyone knows the Bible, most people here better than you do. The point is that the Bible depicts an irrational, malicious being who is not just or good. And here you're saying, "but don't you understand, he wants to punish you, for all eternity, for the crimes of other people and for being what he created!" And somehow in your crazy, fucked up mind, that seems OK.

>>17243099
John 3
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

If u go to hell it is your own fault.

God doesn't want you to go there, but if you go, it is you who walked there, not God.

There's a way not to go there and it is super fucking simple

>>17243104
And out come the lies. Another way to show that /x/ Christians aren't even Christian. They're just lying assholes who only use the name of Jesus to hate on other people.

I never claimed I want nothing to do with god. That's a flat out lie. We really need to get your lying, stupid fucks off this board. You are really awful people.

>>17243108
You were born spiritually dead because Adam and Eve became spiritually dead, and could only have spiritually dead offspring.

If you do not find how to become alive through the finished work of Jesus on the cross, you will remain spiritually dead, and be sorted with the dead to the second death, which is hell.

If you were to be punished only for your own sins, it would also include an eternity in hell.

>>17243117
God made hell and hasn't come to tell any of us how to avoid it. It's his fault.

>>17243108
Actually the OT has to do partly with an inferior creator God, but through His prophets the actual God speaks through His prophets, you can see where the demiurge in OT is there and when they arent.

I doubt you know the Bible for than a preaching Christian, even if they never look into Gnosticism

https://youtu.be/vobU8yF-TEE

>>17243122
That's unjust. I didn't commit Adam and Eve's sins and God could make me spiritually alive without me having to do anything. that he doesn't is unjust. You keep trying to blame me for god's fuck ups. That's really dumb. But then, you also blatantly lie about people even though your God told you that was a sin, so I don't think you really believe in this god at all.

>>17243118
Your posts here demonstrate an open hostility to God.

It's not a stretch to say He's your enemy.

I suggest you take advantage of some knowledge you do not have, in this thread, to become His adopted son, and not His enemy.

The two groups do not face the same eternity; in fact, they could not be further apart.

>>17243123
Walk with Jesus. It's that easy.

>>17243123

I told you, and you rejected it.

>>17243110

God reads hearts; He has always justified people who have faith in Him. He always follows through. He never lies, cheats, steals, kills, destroys, or murders, as your spiritual father does.

>>17243131
More lies. You call anyone disagreeing with your dumb ideas "hostile to god." That's a lie. You don't believe in Jesus and you're not a Christian. You lie about other people too much to be either.

Christians don't lie about other people. You are lying about me, over and over.

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>this thread

>>17243129
God will not force you to believe in Him against your will.

If you ask me if He could, I would say Yes, Yes He could.

That He does not is something for you to ask yourself, maybe there's something God's looking for in people that I haven't expressed yet.

God will very much prove Himself to you, against your will, face-to-face, if you do not repent.

>>17243140
yes, you "told me". you're not god and you're demonstrably both dishonest and stupid. Nothing YOU say has any merit or value. You're not god.

>>17243144
kek for comic relief

>>17243123
>Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

>or if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,a putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the fleshc and despise authority.

>>17243143
You are a child of the father of lies, and you have nothing in your arsenal but lies. Your father was a liar, and a thief, and a murderer, from the beginning.

Don't believe what he tells you about God. All he knows to do is lie.

>>17243148
this is just gibberish. Why wouldn't god let me know he exists? Now you're just clutching at straws as the holes in your argument cause it to collapse.

>>17243151
I am an adopted son of God, and an ambassador here on earth, and here in this thread.

Being God, He pays attention to everything.

I would ask that you not curse yourself any further.

>>17243155
And that's that. For those actually versed in the Bible, Jesus says, specifically, not to act like this asshole fake Christian is acting here. Don't run around calling people the spawn of Satan for not agreeing with you. No actual Christian does that, ever.

This guy isn't a Christian. Don't listen to him for advise on Christian theology. As you can see, he has zero actual interest in behaving as Jesus said a person should. He's just an angry, irrational egocentric and that's all.

>>17243157
God has given you enough evidence for you to realize that He exists, including the creation of the universe, you included.

In fact, there is so much evidence of God that to disbelieve in His existence is rebellion against Him.

God will not force Himself on you.

God will not force His will on you.

While you yet live. After that, it's an entirely different story.

>>17243077
Souls, not spirits. A branch that doesn't bear fruit is indeed taken away, but that must be understood properly. It is akin to the extinction of a race of people or a species of animal what he is discussing throughout that chapter. It is not the eternal spirit he is discussing. There are many in this world who do not have a spirit, their spirit is unable to take full control of their nature, their soul, their nephesh; those souls are indeed threshed away as chaff, they're burned away as might a race that has outlived its usefulness (to put it in a slightly blunt way) be burned away. Do we mourn the loss of a race? Not really. We just know that races must pass away to be replaced by other races into which spirits can incarnate. That is how all references to hellfire and damnation and so on must be understood, as the cleansing away of imperfect soul vehicles, not eternal spirits. God cannot eternally damn a spirit; the spirit comes from his own substance. He would be cutting off his own limbs to spite his face, so to say.

>>17243167
Show that to people, from the bible.

I don't believe you came off as well as you think you did, in this exchange.

>>17243167
As much as I dislike people who downplay God, I agree with you here.

Christianity has been dying because people kill people with it.

I know what your talking about

>here is the good news
>burn in Hell sinner
And no one deserves that extreme, though you can be warned, you shouldn't be attacked by someone who is supposed to be peaceful.

>>17243163
God damn it I fucked up then. Jesus Christ this sucks, shit!

>>17243173
The branches that bear no fruit are gathered up and burned in the fire, having no other use.

They're people, unbelievers, who have no part in the Father, and end up in hell.

God can absolutely damn a spirit/soul, however you want to define either, by placing it in a new body and placing it into the lake of fire. Just like He said He would. And He always keeps His word.

>>17243179
Warning people that they are headed to hell is not an attack against them, and to construe it thus is akin to watching a blind man slowly walk off of a cliff, unawares.

Because Christians are supposed to be compassionate, and from first hand experience I know what it's like to speak about God to a group of people who don't want to hear it.

If they really want you gone, go, they denied you and that's that. Don't worry about judging them or what not, dust off your feet and exit

>"For it will be more tolerable in Sodom and Gemorah than it will be for those that denied you"

Go in peace guys. If people want to speak against God, at least defend God righteously, don't condemn anyone.

>>17243181
kek

I forgive all slights to me, and Jesus already forgave all of us, 2000 years ago.

Repent, and be saved. It's a wonderful experience.

>>17243198
Um, shaking the dust off of your sandals is condemning them to judgment, which is in our purview, but then again, we preach a spirit of forgiveness, not of condemnation.

>>17240154
If you're a petty, vengeful asshole, just about anything's justifiable.

>>17243191
I understand, but it's obvious he doesn't want to listen let him at least have peace on Earth. He was warned, that's it, just let him be.

If you believe he is going to hell, why would you make him suffer here? I doubt he even believes in it, but still.

I know people come on here and try to hypnotize us with words against God so I get a strong defense

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>hell simulator

>>17243189
What is a person? What makes up a person? To what extent is a person the product of his race and his time, zeitgeist, his/her gender, his religion, the beliefs he inherits from his family, his country, his region, culture? Do you see how many different energies play into each man? Within that cosmos of energies is the man's spirit, his I Am. Should his I Am not be able to triumph over the varied energies that make up his soul, that soul will be burned away and that incarnation will be almost as though it never happened. We see this often; there are many around you whose souls offer very little to this world. Indeed such souls are burned away utterly. But a spirit is never burned away. All this confusion began with one of Catholicism's stupid ecumenical councils where they removed the concept of the spirit from the bible, leaving only the soul and body. Man is not only soul and body. He is spirit, soul, life-force and body.

>>17240154
Here's how one can always distinguish a good Christian from a bad one.

1. Good Christians are humble. It's never about them, it's about god and other people. They don't get angry when you disagree with them or doubt them.
Luke 18:14 - "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."

2. Good Christians are wise. They realize that just because they believe something doesn't mean it makes sense to everyone else. They don't bully or abuse others with their faith, but are always polite in sharing it. They definitely never call others children of Satan.
James 4:11-12 - "Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?"

3. They are charitable and kind. This is in both deed and word, for it reflects love for others.
John 13:34-35 - "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

4. True Christians are not boastful. They don't claim to speak for God or pronounce that they know god's will.
Matthew 6:1-3 - “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward."

Now, contrast this to the actions of these /x/ so-called Christians. Dead opposite.

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>>17240909
The reason that this concept doesn't apply to Heaven and Hell is because they exist outside of time. Once we perish, we are out of time, forever and ever. We no longer have the ability to make corrective course on our misgivings and trespasses.

Hell is
a) a place without God and love whatsoever (as it depends on his grace which require his presence)
b) a place in the presence of Satan
c) a place in the presence of the damned
d) a place in the presence of all demons

People like to say its a place in the mind, and in a way it is. For a while, it will just be a place where one is tormented by the arguments of demons as to how easy it would have been to escape that reality with minimal effort, how terrible one was on earth, how low one is now, how it will go on forever, etc. The damned are also tormented by those around them, perhaps their enemies in life, perhaps their friends. Just think of the people you like the least, forever close to you, forever spouting their bullshit and excuses in your ear. You can choose to be quiet but you cannot drown them out. What may be even worse is being in the presence of those who were once true friends or as true as they could be, forever blaming and shaming you, showing the ugliest aspects of their souls. Just think of divorce court or friends getting nasty with eachother. You can't escape this. The presence of every single other damned soul makes your experience worse and worse. Moreover, your intellect is honed to the point where you can't ignore any of this and you can't deny the truths the demons face you with.

Finally, going back to the full intellect, you cannot escape the true nature of wickedness on earth. Even if it was entirely things our culture approves of today (prostitutes, drugs, birth control, condoms, and apathy) you will realize how shameful your life was an how much of a little fool you are for laughing at Christ's sacrifice for us.

...cont?

>>17243284
There are some basic problems with this:

>>17243284
>The reason that this concept doesn't apply to Heaven and Hell is because they exist outside of time.
This is literally made up. There's no basis in scripture or theology for this. This is fan fiction, pure and simple. But you're trying to pass it off as fact. That's a sure rational failure, and frankly pretty obviously dishonest.

>>17243284
>you will realize how shameful your life was an how much of a little fool you are for laughing at Christ's sacrifice for us.
"How much a FOOL you were for DISAGREEING WITH ME!"

That's literally all that whole schlew of words boils down to.

The first step to becoming a meaningful Christian with anything to say worth attending is to give up claiming you speak directly for god, or that your ideas = god's ideas. That's not just wrong, it's a hubris the Bible says you are neither capable nor worthy of.

>>17242960
What makes God so special, though? There are countless people who sacrifice more for less. Think about the Bible story of the old lady who donated a couple cents and the rich guy who donated a fuckload. A fireman who dies in order to save a single child is more worthy of worship than Jesus. He just 'died' for a few days and then came back as the literal king/prince of the universe. What sacrifice is that? There is no sacrifice; he didn't give up anything.

>>17243222
Honestly, I hope I fit most of those, but I slip up sometimes. We all have our ups and downs. I remember how I felt when I was an atheist and how stupid I thought Christianity was so I always try to keep that in mind.
I think where the bullying comes in might be from not being able to convince people of a truth that is so clear to them and that they feel deep in their bones.
Also there isn't good Christians and bad Christians. Maybe good and bad humans, but we're all children of God and brothers and sisters in Christ (that's just my belief)

>>17243317
By bad Christians I mean people who don't actually really believe in Jesus or Christianity at all, but only claim to for ego-social reasons.

It's like this : Some people come here to talk about demon summoning and spell casting and Crowley and whatevs because they think it's funny. And some people come here to talk about those things because they actually think there's something there and find it interesting. And some people come and talk about those things just to feel self important, to try and get people to think they're smart and superior.

Most of our /x/ "Christians" are that latter category for Christianity. They're not actually interested in Jesus at all, they're just interested in trying to get people to treat them as wise authorities on the subject for ego purposes. That's what I mean by bad Christian, but yes, it pretty much translates straight across to, "obnoxious, misguided, self centered human."

The thing is, most people that don't like these /x/ christians here have no problem with "Christianity" as a whole at all. Or god. Or any of that. The debate is about how these guys are ignorant assholes.

See, if someone says there's a flaw in one of their ideas, they immediately scream, "HOW DARE YOU DISAGREE WITH GOD1" They always do that, claim that disagreeing with them is really fighting with and denying god. It's not, it's just disagreeing with them, but they'll lie that arrogantly.

Same with hating Christianity. If you say you dislike their ideas and behaviors, they'll lie about you and claim you hate Christians and Jesus. That's also false, (and yes, a lie,) you just don't like their take or how they lie about you when you say that. That's all.

And of course, then they start calling you Children of Satan doomed to hell. They're just assholes, not Christians.

>>17243304
It's the fact that he is an eternal being responsible for your creation and is responsible for everything you have if you look beyond your immediate surroundings.
Also being crucified is no cake walk my nigga

>>17243212
somebody has the link to the video?

>>17243339
So what? If I had had that power, I surely would have done the same. Except, you know, made things just a tad more comfortable. I also wouldn't have been narcissistic enough to demand that people worship me.

Really though, crucifixion is temporary and literally nothing when compared to the existence of a 'timeless' being. If it would save all of humanity then I would submit myself to an unending crucifixion. Sorry, Jesus, but your deeds really aren't all that impressive.

>>17243217
You are a person. God is I Am.

You are not I Am.

>>17243222

This applies equally to good Hindus, Buddhists and Muslims.

Because you have no idea what a Christian is, you are not the arbiter for what a "good Christian" is.

In reality, there are no "good Christians", only "Christians".

You obviously enjoy being evil; I do not think you will enjoy the consequences of being evil.

>>17243334
Okay I see what you're saying. Yeah some of these Christians get a little tiresome. I think some are just blinded by passion though, and yeah some might just be on an ego trip. I actually kind of like to go toe to toe in a religious/spiritual conversation based on logic because sometimes I think it shows that believing in God isn't completely illogical, maybe slightly though. I also feel like these fire and brimstone dudes do serve a purpose though because they often know more about the bible than I do so I like to hear them. But I understand how they come off to atheists. When I was an atheist my brain would just shut down when someone starts talking about the bible

>>17243300
Eternal things by definition are outside of the scope of time.

God has confounded you.

Which namefag did you used to be?

>>17243304

God is the only being capable of reaching through time and taking the sins of everyone else upon Himself; none of us could have done that. We could only bear our own sins to our own destruction.

And then He suffered the wrath of God upon all of those sins.

And then He suffered death, when He is God and could have stopped the earth from moving.

>>17243358
lol. Okay, see you when you get their, brother. You have a literal metric fuckton to learn. Sorry if that doesn't sound humble and in keeping with the tone of such a thread, but your post is super fucking ignorant. Read anthroposophy please and your bible again. We are the I Am. It's the point of the entire bible. Jesus Christ, how far we've fallen.

>>17243385
Exodus 3:14
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

>>17243385
I agree that one of us has fallen far from the truth.

>>17243379
Again, so what? Okay, He's the only one who could have done that. Since He's omnipotent and timeless, why doesn't He let me do it right now? Just transfer the weight of all of humanity's sins onto me. Make me go through the pain of crucifixion. I don't even want His power. He can keep it. I don't want recognition for it. Everyone could hate me and I still wouldn't mind. I haven't prayed in years, yet I'm doing it right now, offering Him this opportunity. I want nothing in return save for the happiness and protection of humanity. Do I think I'm greater than God? Absolutely not. I just don't think He sacrificed much of anything.

>>17243420
The sacrifice has to be perfect; a lamb without spot or blemish. Perfectly innocent.

You are a sinner; your sacrifice would not be accepted by God for humanity. You are spotted and blemished, wicked even.

>>17243367
I know exactly what a good Christian, and a good person is. See >>17243222

You're a liar, an asshole and have no interest in Jesus. You're just not a good person, at all. You hate other people and you seek to attack them.

>>17243429

What is a Christian?

>>17243374
That's not what the definition of eternal is. So no, nothing you said here is valid. It's just made up gibberish.

>>17243429
Romans 3:12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.”

Not.

One.

Good.

Person.

What namefag did you used to be? Why are you ducking that question?

>>17243426
So then God can make me perfect. Perks of being omnipotent, right? Besides, I'm trying to make a deal with Him, so I don't see why it would matter that I'm not perfect. If anything, the fact that a less-than-perfect being would be willing to make such a sacrifice should make it all the more worthwhile and special.

>>17240956
So he's a bad parent

>>17243426
Dude why can't you chill with that shit? He just literally doesn't understand. I was at that point in my life too. Sure I may have been a little wicked but it wasn't on purpose it was just out of not understanding

>>17243370
I love theological discussion and I also love perusing through mythical and religious texts. I think one of my problems it that in the non-digital world I'm spoiled. The religious individuals I deal with regularly are by and large intelligent, educated, thoughtful people who can have constructive and insightful conversations about faith, theology, etc. I find the childish, hateful, ego-centrism trying to pass for genuine spiritual thought among these fake /x/ christians especially distasteful and insipid.

>>17243436

e·ter·nal
əˈtərn(ə)l/
adjective
lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.

It's gibberish to you, sure. But then, isn't everything?

Why can't you answer what namefag you used to be?

>>17243450
I started posting at >>17243304
I'm trying to have a genuine discussion about it. I've never heard my point of view brought up before.

>>17243447
God can make you perfect, with your consent. That's what being saved is all about. You take off your righteousness, and God places upon you the righteousness of His Son, Jesus Christ.

While He is the Almighty, He will not do that without your consent. You must say out loud that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead. Do that, and you will be saved, redeemed, sanctified, and eventually will be glorified.

>>17243457
Lasting forever doesn't mean "outside time." It just means forever. You're very stupid.

>>17243450
I'll continue responding to the people I choose to respond to, thanks. Please feel free to tell anyone you care to the truth, as you see it.

>>17243435
Im not him but I think it's just someone who accepts Jesus Christ as their savior. That's why I said earlier there's no good or bad Christians. There's just Christians. It's like the good brother and the black sheep of the family. They're both children of their parents and loved equally

>>17243464

There's no time in eternity.

Why can't you admit who you used to be here?

>>17243463
I definitely don't want to be glorified. I just can't agree with anyone going to Hell, ever. Or deep unhappiness in general. So I'd like to sacrifice myself for them. For anyone and everyone. He's got my permission to do that, no matter the cost.

>>17242751
How many non eternal destinations are there?

>>17243471
Is there a need you felt for not allowing him to display his utter ignorance on the topic?

Do you really want him to be the arbiter of which Christians are worthy to post here, and which are worthy of nothing but his scorn and curses?

>>17243480

Sacrifice rejected.

Sorry.

You couldn't even pay for your own sins without spending an eternity in hell; how could you pay for anyone else's?

Why do you want to be a false Messiah, instead of an adopted son of God?

>>17243478
Forever is a length of time, so you just negated your own claim.

Look, just...you know...you said something stupid, off the top of your head, with no validity. Stop trying to shoehorn it, just admit you said something without justification. I mean, goddamned you people and this petty inability to just admit error. Seriously, you look dumber fighting this hard to avoid it than you'd ever look just admitting it.

>>17243483
Probably an uncountable finite number.

>>17243483
Interestingly, there is an infinite amount of non-eternal destinations!

>>17243492

Forever is not a length of time, because there can always be t + 1.

So, you suck at the things of God, and you suck at math.

Are you good at anything?

What namefag did you used to be?

>>17243496
There aren't, actually. Just an uncountably high finite number.

What was your old namefag?

Was it that bad?

Did you get banned for life?

>>17243491
I've already specified that I want zero recognition for it. I don't want people to know who I am, or even of me.

I wouldn't want to be affiliated with a being who feels that the sins of ignorant, mortal, fallible by creation, creatures warrants an eternity of punishment in any situation.

I'd be willing to spend a multitude of eternities in Hell: one for each person who otherwise would have gone there.

>>17243471
So this is what I mean about some of these self declared Christians : >>17243485

I mean, look at that response. That's just unhinged.

>>17243485
I don't know...I was just telling him what I thought. Im not really trying to get in a holier than thou battle with anyone. I was just trying to provide some pretty agreed upon information

>>17243505
No, it's actually infinite. See, for every destination, you can continue to add conditions, infinitely.

Here, watch this video. It explains infinities in a way you should be able to understand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s86-Z-CbaHA

>>17243508

Yes, you want to buy a trillion dollar diamond the size of Manhattan with your dirty little penny.

It's not going to happen.

You're just another false messiah. Sorry. There are many like you. There will be many more. You cannot save anyone; you cannot save yourself. You can only turn to Jesus to save you, because He is the perfect Lamb of God.

>>17243509

What is a Christian?

How does one become a Christian?

What is a good Christian?

Why can't you say who you used to be here?

>>17243510
That's why I tend to avoid trying to answer questions with obvious, well known answers already available. Too often there's a hidden agenda to asking such a question.

It's like an old professor of mine used to say, "There are no stupid questions, except the ones you already know the answers to."

>>17243467
Fair enough

>>17243510
The things of God are not known to the children of satan. Instead of allowing me to demonstrate that he knew nothing of Christianity, much less what constitutes a "good Christian", you felt sorry for him and provided him an answer he can ape.

Be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Remember?

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>>17243300
Honestly, I'm not enough of a theologian or apologist to answer this objection. I don't know that it has no foundation in the bible, although I imagine the second coming of Christ is referred to as the 'end of time' in at least one instance. Taking a literal understanding of the bible, we are forced to confront something we don't understand. Consider it, I guess. And if not we can agree to disagree I suppose. It doesn't matter too much. The point is that Christ said the worm of conscience never dies. This implication of an unchanging state, both for the righteous and the wicked is fully consistent with the end of time.

Getting on to the second portion of this response: I think this is a bit more asinine and honestly a bit childish, intellectually speaking. I'll respond though.

I wasn't trying to say that those who disagree with me are necessarily wicked (although they often are), I was just trying to typify an element of emotional torment the damned experience. Some, being faced with the now eternal choice they made to mock, ignore, or blaspheme Jesus, will find this unbearable when confronted with the simple truth that he was the greatest, most honorable, and most powerful man who ever walked the earth. On top of that, he was sacrificed to recompense for their sins and they find themselves in a state unable to utilize that sacrifice anymore. In that sense, they are a waste. "It would have been better if he had never been born."

I don't do this to claim to speak for God, and clearly am not really espousing any particular ideals. I'm pointing out an unbearable mental pain which is suffered by many who refused to confront their hubris.

(p.s.: the word is spelled slew)

>>17243515

Nope. Finite. They all have names, and they were all placed by God.

>>17243531
Great post. The venom of people who hate God and yet say He does not exist is perhaps the greatest cognitive dissonance in the human experience.

>>17243530
Sorry I didn't know that was you, I thought it might actually be someone who wanted to know what a Christian was
Im an idiot, not a serpent

>>17243545
Please know that I love you, with all my heart, and I look forward to meeting you in heaven.

>>17243531
But again, this "hubris" is apparent on all sides, both those who think the idea is wrong and those who think the idea must be right. And it hearkens back to the OP's original point, what is all this punishment over hubris? Is it just? Can a god who won't even speak to people directly, who only appears to communicate through the flimsiest of proxies, justifiable in then declaring that a failure to heed these unreliable sources constitutes a hubris so grievous as to warrant "timeless" suffering? The answer is, of course, no.

>>17243518
You've just made my point for me. Mark 12:41-44 I'm willing to give everything I have, everything I am, in order to achieve this. God may have given more than I possibly ever could, but when compared to the scope of what He has, it's nothing.

>>17243534
Watch the video, idiot. Being able to name every aspect of a set doesn't make it finite. See, it's not just that you're ignorant, it's that you're so resistant and hostile to information, to curing your ignorance.

>>17243556
He came to earth, the Son of God, to tell you this message.

Jesus is not a "flimsy proxy".

>>17243555
You too brother

>>17243563

The widow's mites are about money offerings to the temple, not salvation.

Her putting in her two cents, that she needed to live, demonstrated far more faith than a rich person putting in a million dollars.

The widow will have more riches in heaven than the rich people, assuming the rich people even make it into heaven.

It's not a parable. It's a story.

>>17243572
Jesus hasn't come to me. Some people without any evidence claim he did that two thousand years ago.

Imagine, for a moment, that every Wendys in the entire world had a major problem with, say, their meat shipments. And they look to corporate headquarters for a solution. And corporate says, "everyone who doesn't solve the problem is fired."

So the people ask, "well, what solution would you suggest?" And corporate replies, "What are you talking about? We sent one guy to the Wendys in Joplin Missouri back in 1934! How has that not cleared everything up for everyone?!"

When I say, "why the fuck isn't god talking to us directly," and you reply, "dude he sent ONE GUY to ONE REGION 2000 years ago, that should be enough," you prove conclusively that you're a goddamned idiot.

>>17243566

I don't waste my time with things that contradict the bible, and contradict common sense.

You apparently specialize in such things.

Who were you, again?

>>17243531
Oh and thanks for correcting my spelling of slew.

>>17242375
Thinking out side the box,maybe I should do drugs and be limited like you

>>17243589
Jesus came to many people back then, not all of whom believed He is the living Son of God.

You want to talk hubris? You want Jesus to make a special appearance, just to you? Is there a higher hubris than that, to demand to have God Himself at your beck and call?

John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

>>17243591
>I don't waste my time with things that contradict the bible, and contradict common sense.
Alright, you're trolling now. Adios, asshole. Thanks for coming to shit all over /x/ and the people trying to converse here.

>>17243611
Go back in this thread and read how many infantile names you have called me; how many assertions without evidence you have made, and how many questions you could not answer.

If you have the intestinal fortitude for self-reflection, that is.

Also, avoiding a lifetime ban is a lifetime offense.

People still arguing

Get over it, away from your computer screen

>profit?

>>17243606
>You want to talk hubris? You want Jesus to make a special appearance, just to you? Is there a higher hubris than that, to demand to have God Himself at your beck and call?
If god is going to condemn anyone to eternal suffering, and he is just, then he must talk to them personally. Refusal to do so is unjust .It is inexcusable, it is unforgivable. It would also be petty and condescending, not traits I associate with god, but definitely traits I would assume a petty person would ascribe to their made up god.

Your god is a bad god. But again, that's probably because you're a bad person who has made up a bad god that reflects your own failures as a human.

A good god, a just god, a god worthy of worship would never, ever sentence a person to eternal torture without confronting them face to face first.

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>>17240925
Lies. Beware this thinking, friends.

>>17242756
Hell is best understood not as the torment that God designed for the wicked (although it's true in a sense), but the terrible, terrible state they find themselves in when they make themselves fully incapable of ever being in his presence. This is of course worsened by the eternal presence of all other wicked people and demons.

>>17242765
While I do believe that my birthright is to be forever damned, and most people have probably sinned gravely against God, and goodness is only possible through God, some people are very, very good. They are a force for Jesus and His Father here on earth, bravely telling the truth everywhere they go and bringing souls to him.

>>17242899
God our Father desires to raise us up as his sons. Satan wants to raise us up as cows to slaughter and consume. Although the dark side presents itself as 'cool' and 'truly free' it is this path that leads to slavery. Think about it; drugs, sex, pornography, prostitutes, abortion, violence, lies, corruption, cruelty, rape, violence. All of these things lead to a life that is
>controlled by a massive desire to fulfill selfish wants, disregarding everything else
>constantly in damage control, inclining one further and further into sin
or some such.

The life that Jesus lived leads to true freedom. Intellectual freedom, the freedom to become who we are truly meant to be and to use our talents on wholesome, fulfilling activities. Every other path leads to some form of slavery, where our options seem ever narrower. The truth is, anon, they are not. We can save ourselves with our very final breath if at last we acquiesce to God's plan and admit our wrongdoing.

>>17243584
So why can't my offering my eternal salvation, limited though it may be, wanting no worship or gratitude in response, to pay for the sins of others, over whom I have no control, in the eyes of Someone other than myself (God) show more compassion than God's temporary visit to earth in mortal form, during which he suffered a short few days of physical pain before returning to omnipotence while demanding the worship and unfounded faith of all people in exchange for forgiveness of the sins borne of the imperfections which he placed upon them and which go against the rules which he arbitrarily created?

>>17243633
>Hell is best understood not as the torment that God designed for the wicked (although it's true in a sense), but the terrible, terrible state they find themselves in when they make themselves fully incapable of ever being in his presence. This is of course worsened by the eternal presence of all other wicked people and demons.
The "No Exit" version of hell. This at least has both some theological bearing as well as being able to be rationally reconcilable with a just and good god.

>>17243621

You still think you get to judge God.

Good luck with that.

>God the Father is here on earth.
>He posted here on /x/ a couple times
>Christianity follows fake practices and has removed all traces of the Spirit from its religion
>The whole purpose of Christianity was the Holy Oil, which is the Holy Spirit.
>Sinning has nothing to do with which the church teaches.
>What you consume is your sin. The false prophet has run the religion since the dark ages.
>he hs one eye and controls all the media food supply and government s of the world
>All plants and herbs of the Spirit have been persecuted against and banned in countries.
>God the Father has gone out into the wild until the final winter and final war start, at which point He will return
'You can sin against Myself and be forgiven, you can even sin against my Son and be forgiven. If however you sin against the Spirit, there is no chance to be forgiven.' God, the Father.
God only fears the Spirit, that which makes Him God.

>>17243642
We all get to judge but sadly, you keep claiming that you're god. You're not. All that's being judged are your ideas. And all you can do is lie and keep claiming you're God.

That, more than anything, demonstrates that you're not a Christian at all. You keep declaring that you're God. That you speak for God. Your hubris, your sense of self importance, is the antithesis of Christianity.

You're not God, anon, and every time you lie and claim that someone disagreeing with you is them "judging God," you assure that if there is a hell, you'll end up there.

>>17243645
Sinning against the spirit sounds kinda SEXY!

>>17243635
>So why can't my offering my eternal salvation
You do not have eternal salvation, and if you gain salvation, you can never lose it, or even give it away. Ever. You become a new creation in Christ Jesus.

>limited though it may be, wanting no worship or gratitude in response, to pay for the sins of others
All of their sins have already been paid for, by Jesus, on the cross. Yours included.

>over whom I have no control, in the eyes of Someone other than myself (God) show more compassion than God's temporary visit to earth

He's always been here, is here now, and will always be in whatever form He remakes the earth.

>in mortal form
Would you, if you were God, leave heaven and be born poor white trash?

>during which he suffered a short few days of physical pain
Jesus suffered more than humanity combined. I want to reiterate that.

Jesus suffered, personally, more than the collective suffering of all of mankind for all times. To understand this, you must understand what it meant for God to become Sin, and be forsaken.

>before returning to omnipotence
He never left. He could have walked off the cross, walked away from Pilate, called 12 legions of angels, whatever He wanted to do.

So what He wanted to do was to die for our sins. So He did.

>while demanding the worship and unfounded faith of all people in exchange for forgiveness of the sins borne of the imperfections which he placed upon them
God created Adam and Eve to be perfect, and immortal, with His Holy Spirit living in them. They blew it, and died. And so you were born dead.

>and which go against the rules which he arbitrarily created?
God's Laws are neither arbitrary nor violate.

Stop trying to earn your own salvation, and consent to be saved like the rest of us who are saved.

>>17243649
I've said consistently that I am an adopted son of God, i.e. a Christian born male here on earth.

But you've done nothing here that has increased anyone's knowledge of anything, but for some namefag trying to avoid a lifetime ban, who cannot bear being anonymous.

With enough time, a human can get used to anything. Given an eternity, Hell would become paradise.

>>17243672
He posted that video, and those verses from the Bible about how to be good. You seem to be shitting yourself over him, like you have some old grudge you want to fight about.Just looks kind of stupid to me.

>>17243683
Well, that's sort of where I stand regarding the above concept that hell is just existence without the presence of God. While a sounder argument than any given prior in this thread, it still doesn't seem that bad. I've apparently gotten by this far without basking in God's glory, it's pretty nice. An eternity of this? I'm on board!

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>>17243543
They will find their hatred multiplied when they can never be near him again for eternity. It really is a bit telling, isn't it?

>>17243556
Well, I would start by saying that some of course purport to be godly men either for the sake of money, sex, or power or simply in spite of their hedonistic desires. Let's not confuse them as being on the good team, even if they are a bishop or pope.

With that exception out of the way, I don't know that hubris is apparent on both sides. While of course few will fully extinguish their selfish, worldly desire (be it for power, love, or how they're perceived) I think it's fair to typify the good side as actually trying to do this. Think of Mother Theresa, for example, or look up anchorites (fem. anchoresses, those who literally entomb themselves alive in a church to pray unceasing until death). In Christianity (although not exclusively) there is an incredibly rich tradition of truly sacrificing all that one would naturally desire to obtain things only for God and the good of one's fellow men.

I want to propose a new way to think of Hell to you. I know some of this was in my initial reply, which you read, but to expound:

Hell is not a place God wants us to go, ever. If he had his way, no one would ever go there. People find themselves there because they have rejected his vision for their lives. In doing so, they are unfit to coexist with him, and with all good people, permanently.

This is a possibility for us because God respects our choices, he respects our freedom to choose our destiny. In a way, Hell isn't an inherent place of torment. The torment that abounds there spews forth from its occupants. Granted, the utter lack of God's presence makes it utterly unbearable, but this is what people choose for themselves when they reject his goodness throughout their lives. How can they live in the fullness of his presence if they can't respect women on earth? The latter is far easier.

to be continued...

>>17240154
Hell is just being away from God.

>>17243701
This all goes back to God's failure to communicate. If you want a behavior from someone, you cannot communicate only through unreliable proxies. You can't only send one voice every few thousand years. You can't rely on a a reprinted and edited text even older. you can't rely on other humans known to be dishonest and unreliable. You have to come and discuss what you want with people directly. Otherwise there is no sane reason for them not to just ignore the message.

Look at the people here, like your own snide little "a bit telling" comment. Most of the people cheering for Christ here aren't intelligent. They have no good theology or reasoning. Their knowledge of the Bible is even weak and largely self interested. They're rude, they're dishonest, their arrogant as fuck. There is quite literally no reason to believe any of them have any insight into the nature of God, heaven, the universe, anything. Any god relying on them to spread its message is a cretin, it's as simple as that.

God MUST communicate with us its intentions and it can't justly do that through people who are lying, ignorant assholes. That is an objective truth more coherent than anything else said on this thread.

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>>17243556
cont from
>>17243701

The best way to think of this is through an image, which I think is also literally true.

Jesus' face, both on Judgment Day and when we meet him at our death, will look exactly the same to both the just and the wicked. However, the just will perceive him as being the absolute embodiment of love, truth, hope, righteousness, and justice. This justice is perceived so differently by the wicked. For though they will be unable to look away (for a time) he will appear to them to be so incredibly angry and judgmental that they will have no option but to flee from him.

Honestly, it sounded a bit better before I put it to words, but the point is that we are conditioned by what we do here. Those who have sacrificed everything, and are fully ready to be with God, will stare longingly into His face and want to be with him immediately.

Those who sacrificed something, or at least who recognized the error in their ways at some point, will long to look in his face but find themselves incapable to really take it all in. They're not ready. Although they know it will be suffering for them, they deeply desire purging fire (Purgatory) to make themselves clean and ready to be with God forever.
(n.b. Christians who don't believe in Purgatory, I'm not ready to discuss that now. Clearly this discussion is already getting incredibly broad. Feel free to tell me but I won't be taking you up on it)

Finally, those who were so wicked in this world, who in the final counting truly did nothing meaningful except for their own sake, will find themselves unable to look at him at all. They will run away from him so quickly, knowing where they are going.

While you may choose to disagree, I'm just illustrating the concept that Hell is a destination people choose for themselves; the fulfillment of their actions. It is not a place he desires anyone to go.

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>>17243722
I'm seeing two different main points here that I'll address separately.

1. If God wants us to be righteous, why doesn't he simply tell us; directly, clearly, constantly?

2. Christians are imperfect

1) This is a logical counterargument that I once found quite persuasive. I also thought of it myself, no one (no person at least) ever introduced it to me. And on it's face it is quite damning (so to say) to the concept of God's existence! If he despises to see us look at demeaning images of women, masturbate, and spill our seed, why doesn't he simply say,
>ANON!!! PUT THAT AWAY! WHAT DID I TELL YOU LAST TIME???
Hearing this in a booming, bodiless voice would certainly be quite helpful for those trying to be righteous, and a good reminder that he exists and that the bible is true.

Why does he allow atheists to exist? If he desires to know and love all of us, why doesn't he do it now?? When he sees people starving, suffering in a war ravaged country, why doesn't he offer them some consolation, if not simply rescue them somehow?

Simply put, I don't know. I will try to explain, but the imaginary God who acted this way could still be fully consistent with respecting our free will.

The first thing to highlight, and to know, is that the law of good and evil is written on our hearts. In a moment, I will use BDSM to illustrate this. Also, the truth is fully revealed to us, forever. Jesus didn't die just for those who knew him or who are Christians, the fact that he died and justified the lives of Jews and Gentiles who predate him proves this. He died for those who sought him, whether or not they knew what they were seeking.

Knowing the direct truth of Christ is a tool of ours to battle the dark forces counteracting his army of angels. It is not a requirement. An important thing to consider here is that on Judgment Day, no man will be able to say that he did not get a fair trial. They may bemoan the outcome, but they will be unable...

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>>17243722
>>17243821
to deny that it was fair.

Quickly on the BDSM subject. We may be able to condition our minds to think that it is ok; to ignore a clear impulse or rational logic that it is sick and twisted (whether actually performing the acts or viewing pornography), but we can never truly deny that it is wrong. Just look at it (actually, don't. think of it. but not too graphically). It debases women incredibly. There is no good obtained, aside from the fleeting good of pleasure. One day, the curtain will be lifted, and we will be able to see what we've either known or ignored for so long. Again, I'm using this example of conscience to illustrate that the law of good and evil is written on the hearts of all men.

So I've tried to provide some insight into how this isn't unfair, but I need to address why God would choose to have it this way. Simply put, this world is a trial. It is a crucible. It is a great play in a sense that will tease out our true natures and our true desires. God didn't desire to make this so easy for us. Nay, those who suffer the most are often the closest to him. Still, the truth, the consistent Truth of Jesus is available to those who seek it, regardless of how old it is. It is preserved to the end of time in His Church. This world (by which I mean the Universe) could go on for another 50 billion years of men, and I guarantee you that until the very bitter, bitter end, good men will be guarding and freely telling the Truth of Christ to those who are willing to listen.

2. I want to address this second point quickly and simply since the first one seems vastly more important (and admittedly longwinded). I'm sorry that Christians aren't perfect. Not all are smart, or knowledgeable, and I'm sorry that some of these have let you down and wronged you in the past. I'm sorry that some may have mistreated you or ganged up on you in this thread, although you've been a bit incendiary. None here are perfect....

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>>17243722
>>17243884
some Christians can be judgmental. Some who claim to be Christians are even rotten to the core. However, Jesus often uses the small, weak, and feeble as his instruments. Do not look down on them, and hope they don't look down on you either.

Regarding my comment, I will make no apology for it. There is no need to feel any compassion or sadness for or regarding the damned. They are beyond saving. I was speaking from one believer to another about the irony that on one hand, their souls are consumed by a hatred for God (a true and full hate) but on the other, they hate him because they cannot be with him. Perhaps you don't believe this is the case, but think of it as if you do, and it's quite some mental gymnastics they do down there.

Anyway, perhaps we've exhausted this, but I'll check it out again in an hour or two.

>>17243170
>God has given you enough evidence for you to realize that He exists including the creation of the universe, you included
Okay, the universe exists. Why does that prove God exists?

>>17240154
Well thems the rules Sonny, sorry

>>17243902
And you lose again. You have couched disagreement with your human, limited interpretations as hatred of god. It's not. That you can't get beyond that clear lie shows not just a problem with your theology but your inability to deal properly with people who don't agree with you. You refuse to stop creating straw men out of such a position.

Real believers don't do that. They don't need to.

>>17242774
Logical extrapolation by the true believers you mean. Are you Orthodox, heretic, or pagan?

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>>17243063

>>17240154
I wouldn't want to spend time with criminals, molesters, autists forever so that's why hell exists - a place where all of them enjoy eternity together.

But I hope I'll go to heaven, judging by my behavior and inner state I'm going straight to the lowest pit of hell.

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>>17244384
You people just take for granted everything on the internet... you don't even google search to verify something you like... LMAO and most of your have the right to vote.

You don't understand, God doesn't want anyone to perish. He made a way for you to be righteous enough to go to heaven and live in eternal paradise. Christ died on the cross as a perfect expression of His love for you and simultaneously as a show of how much He hates evil. If you spend your entire life not realizing how wicked we are and rejecting Him, you have no place in His kingdom and you chose hell. You have free will, but this is still His creation. He loves you so much that he doesn't even care what you did, He will love you and make you His child. How could you turn that down?

>>17240883
Couldn't have said it better myself, anon. There are no consequences outside of the life you're given. If there are, then so be it.

>>17244445
Video for this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGlx11BxF24

>>17244438
Why does it matter who said it? What, because some guy a long time ago came up with it, it's inherently more profound? More truthful? Did they have a more direct means of communicating with higher beings back then?

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>>17240895
Hahaha, what the fuck? You justify others being evil psychopaths because the pain they cause is temporary?

>>17244499
I'm inclined to listen to physicist when I want to learn about physics.

I'm inclined to listen to reputable philosophers when I want to learn philosophy.

Don't give fake quotes that was my point, and the idea is totally differently when you present the original one.

You have a good brain from birth use it or lose it.

>>17240154
It isn't so much as Hell is bad as Heaven is the ultimate reward.
Hell is really only so bad when you look at what could have been. Its not a punishment, it's for people who didn't qualify.

>>17240154
From what I've read, it's actually probably not that bad. Like just a pagan deity.

>>17244545

Well heaven is just a state your soul waits in until the resurrection, such is hell.

After resurrection the reward for people that are saved is eternal life in biological body without pain, suffering, disease in the universe in a restored state.
For people that don't get saved it is the flames that will come after resurrection from Christ.

>>17244510
And I'm not inclined to listen to anyone who claims knowledge of unknowable things. Besides, it's hardly philosophy, just logic.

You have a good brain from birth, draw your own conclusions.

>>17244568
So what?
Your life, your consequences.
They are implied only for afterlife, in this life there is no merit, benefit for believing or disbelieving.

It could be justified if someone does some really bad stuff.

God is merciful, a quality ignored by many, and through repentence it makes sense that if we build a relationship with God we can come to an understanding with Him about where we go when we die

>>17244500
That's what he's saying

>>17243633
Please listen to this poster. Everything he is saying is true.

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Is there no end to the loosh that can be mined from Churchstain lolcows? Will it ever get bored toying with them on the internet?

>>17240909
>heres the thing, if god is all knowing, then he will know when a person has TRULY learned the error of their ways, and has changed. The purpose of punishment is to teach a lesson a.k.a enable a person to see the world from a new perspective. accepting responsibility for and the consequences of your actions is an investment in your own integrity.

Hell isn't punishment.

It's the only other place to be except for Heaven, if you willfully choose to separate yourself from God.

It's your call. Not His. And once made, when life ends, there's no turning back.

I don't make the rules, I just know them.

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>>17244589

Free will doesn't exist, people act/think the way they do because of pre-ordained genetics and unavoidable life experiences. Everyone is a slave to their timeline, so no one is culpable for anything they do, though that doesn't mean they shouldn't be stopped. God would be an idiot to condemn a pedophile to eternal damnation if he made that goddamn pedophile the way he is.

>>17242636
Hell isnt fire and brimstone as it is often associated. It's a place outside the presence of God which is anathema to the human soul because we are an aspect of Him.

>isn't justified
Dose the creator of you and the hole universe have to "justify" anything
He created and literally everything you know and he can do whatever the hell he wants with it.

>>17244738
One could argue that God knew a person would be a pedophile before he even exists. Therefore, it is God's fault for bringing a pedophile into existence, and therefore, God should receive the punishment for child sex abuse.

the people disagreeing with op need to realize what eternity really means. he's right. that's waaayy too harsh of a punishment. you should get chances of redemption at certain points in your punishment

>>17243448
But a kickass older brother.

Implying souls have nerve endings.

>>17240154
No it's not, because people can change.
>>17240883
He said an eternity.
An eternity of getting gored and seered. You have to be mentally ill to think anyone deserves that.

>>17244738
Nah ur just being weird about it man u have too look

>>17245047
Punishment doesn't even make sense. There are humans on this planet right now who are more forgiving than that, more forgiving and reasonable than this wrathful petty God.

It's bad enough that he flung us into this eternity without our permission, then he expects us to grovel for him until we decide his dick is delicious, die, and go to heaven so we can stare at him forever. Amazing, what a practical plan. But if you don't like this miserable existence you have no choice in? pfft, go have your skin torn off every 5 seconds before you're dipped in acid and have a corkscrew shoved up your dick for an indefinite period of time no doubt infinitely longer than the life you experienced sinning on earth, ya heathen. But he also saw that coming and its part of his plan. Don't question it, just do what the church tells you.

I really don't like to think that this makes sense to someone. How could you wish anything so horrible on any living being on this planet?

>>17244500
Exactly if causing people temporary pain is bad.

Eternal pain is literally infinitely worse.

>>17245335
This is why I have no respect for Christ stains. Why would you willingly believe in something so vile? The only answer is if you're a sadist or completely mindcucked. The analogy of Judeo-theism being North Korea in the sky is an underexaggeration.

If you're a "liberal" Christ stain and reject hell or the centrality of believing in exchange for eternal reward, you've basically admitted that your belief is entirely based on feels and wishful thinking, you're picking and choosing what you want to be true. In this case you are intellectually dishonest to yourself.

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>>17245335
>>17246087
>>17246130

>>17246152
Don't kid yourself, you're just as reactionary as they are. You just have a "epic" meme to throw around. If you want to contribute to the thread, then by all means do so.

>>17244500
Goes to show catholics are just a religion of pseudo justice and fear. Hell is there to reassure you what the bad people get, and its honestly just ridiculous and many christians cant even grasp what a concept like eternal damnation is. A couple shitheads even desire it upon others, and I doubt they would be far behind.

Once your able to develop something like sympathy a little more you might be able to see how most atrocities commited are a result of one before it, now apply this to the first sin. God sends people to hell for repercusions of this, every thief acted out of lust or necessity, every murderer killed out of hate or fear. You may want to observe just how much of "sins" commited result from one before it, its literally a chain to a certain point, and each of us rides it out differently. The idea of this fair, benevolent, merciful god, is probably one of the biggest lies in all of human history.

Spirituality should not be bound to an organization, but should be something everyone can individualy develop through all the texts, books and studies we have. Its your perception of the world and if you allow it to be shaped for you, you will never be anything more than an insignificant sheep.

>>17245335
A realistic understanding of "hell" really tells you it's a Jewish supremacist fable at heart. It's where the goyim go when they die, literally. They used to throw non-Jews in a pit at a valley called Gehennom. This teaching evolved from that to a underground torture chamber ruled over by Satan. Even that is highly questionable, given the nature of "Satan" as a biblical figure. The mix of mythological figures that compose this mythos is quite complex to say the least. You'll probably ignore this post or lump me in with the fedora humpers. I don't care. I'm just educated on the points of Christianity.

>>17246130
>mindcucked
Stop. Just stop. Deal with points, not your silly little autistic memes from a Mongolian snow eating forum. Endless torture is bad, but that doesn't mean that's all Christfaggotry has. I mean, Christianity is an old religion. It's been around for a long time. There are good strains of it and bad.

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>>17246152

Religion has no argument left. It's been destroyed in the realm of philosophy (72% of academic philosophers are atheists) and science (religious claims are completely disregarded by science, except as a social phenomenon) and increasingly relevance in the modern world. Religion maintains itself via hegemony, which has broken down over the last decade. Before the internet, one had to actively seek out books or periodicals skeptical to religion, now a whole mountain of arguments against religion is just a few clicks away. Accordingly, atheism has grown tremendously in developed countries, and especially among those who are tech-savvy.

All you have left is the fedora mockery, which is laughably hypocritical as you ignore the funny headgear obsession that religions themselves have.

*Tips Mitre*
M'flock

>>17246158
No, i don't want to 'contribute' to a thread for angsty teens who try to reinvent the wheel. 'Problem' of hell was dealt with centuries ago.

>>17246191

> Muh theodicies

>>17246191
>the problem of hell
It's a Jewish supremacist fable from a time when people were more savage and brutal.

>>17246190
That's not a hat on Crowley's head, it's the hood of his robe tucked up so you can see his face.

>>17246210
>>>/pol/

>>17246212
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. That's a really long ass way to say "what's up my nigger" but whatever. Yeah, it's a hood. I kinda wish people knew more about that kind of thing, but we can't change the world today. Too many stupid people.

>>17246216
You're retarded, you know that? It is a Jewish supremacist idea. They even added the shit about baby sacrifice to the goyim to make them seem more evil. The whole terror of Tophet was basically from that alone. Hell is a Jewish fable because it is part of a collection of Just-So-Stories from that religion and it's bastard children. No, I will not go back to /pol/ because I triggered you. Fuck you.

>>17246212
Hence why I said "Headgear" and not hats.

>>17240883
20 trillion years of being burned alive seems extreme even for a rapist

>>17246205
If you can't handle the facts then maybe go back to jacking off to dawkings?

>>17243072
Why are all /x/ namefags raging atheist crusaders?

>>17246326
They want to be "rebels" or something. They have a name on an Anonymous imageboard. Not a tripcode though, since they are slightly less faggy. Still faggy though. The atheist shit is just a part of that.

Children with down syndrome, autism, and internet retardation.

>>17240154
I agree OP, It's a strange concept that a human who lives roughly between only 0-100 years, their fate for eternity will be based on such a minute amount of time in existance. Not saying it's false but Christianity never made sense to me, when broken down, not one bit of it seems to follow any natural rules that govern the multiverse. If "as above so below" holds true then shouldn't these laws be easily enough ascertained?

>>17243092
How's the 8th grade treating you champ?

>>17242844

>You should put more energy into playing the hand you were dealt, and less energy in playing "what if" games.

This guy knows

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>>17246534
Come on, people have opinions that are different than yours.

Don't you know this?

>>17240154

>he doesn't know we're in hell right now

all this sinner butthurt, kid accept it. Eternal pain will come for those that reject the father with all the proof he has given you.

>>17240154
Jesus never mentionned hell

>>17240154
There are people that truly deserve such fate, people who manipulate and destroy other people lives just for personal gain without remorse, rapists that keep raping even after being released, people that murder when robbing simply because they felt like it and so on.

>>17242899
>who made you to be a slave and then send you to eternal suffering if you displease him
Honestly imagined a 12yo atheist talking almighty, because this was just too dumb

>>17246606
>rapists who keep on raping
What can I say, the pussy game ridiculous.

>>17246595

Yes he did. He literally says the only person you should fear is he who sends you to hell.

>>17240154
Then dont go to hell. God doesn't send you to hell, you choose to go there by being disobedient. Do what is right and you have nothing to fear.

>>17246606
One of the classic motivations for inventing a god or religion, the desire for REVENGE!

>>17246638
"Baby, why you gotta make me go and hit you?!"

Seriously, I don't know what's scarier, your interpretation of what a God would be like or that you don't comprehend how fucked up it is.

Depending on states of karma dictates where we go.

Reincarnation back on Earth in a human life is like saying your last life you didn't finish your goal.

Ending up as an animal means you either desired the body or because you did something that made you into a "lower" form of life.

Hellish planets are reserved for the extremely wicked and cruel.

While God plays an essential role, so do we. If we go to hell, it is because of our own decision to do so, either because we deserve to suffer there or because we have to free souls that have been dwelling there.

Heaven would be a higher state that is no longer physical and with God and can go even beyond the cosmos and past empty space into something that is completely spiritual.

>>17246659
Read 2 Tim 3: 1-7 it explains what's happening. Atheism and moral relativism have ruined you. May God look on you with mercy child you know not what you do.

>>17242844
Way too cut off a discussion with "im insignificant and I can barely grasp what I believe in".


The comfort in not understanding isnt for everyone, there are people dedicating and giving their lives to the goal of advancing human understanding, are they not playing cards they are dealt? If your way of thinking had its say in the world we would still live as poverty stricken farmers and workers for kings and emperors, cause all we can do is play the cards we are dealt.

Jeez you must be arrongant and atleast in your 50s to have that view on life, from a different time.

>>17246669
Shush now. Your childish and aggressive interpretation of God isn't even popular among the world's Christians.

That you can't even converse about this stuff without becoming hostile, insulting and aggressively irrational demonstrates just how weak your belief in it is. You're not a spiritual christian, you're just a cultural one., a member of the club, and man do you hate outsiders telling you that the club rules are stupid. The trouble is, most Christians no longer even belong to your club. Because it's really hard for most adults to cling to a theology as simple minded as the one you present.

Eternal suffering is unjust. That's all there is to it.

>>17243056
Damn I have not seen arrogance of this scale in so long. Thanks for the chuckle you biblecuck.

>>17246673
The road to damnation is wide and many travel on it. I have neither insulted you nor acted childish. I gave you some wisdom you refuse to hear. Then wished for your salvation. I will pray for you.

>>17243070
>That isnt true

Why isnt it? Stop thinking your blind belief is anything other than ignorant and arrogant .

>>17246684
>wisdom

Metaphors based on blind belief is the word you are looking for.

>>17246684
You don't have any wisdom. You're not a wise person, nor do you have any insight into God, the afterlife, spirituality or even the Bible. Hell, your quoted verse was actually just a condensed version of my own recommendations for how to spot a good Christian (vs. people like you who only use the name Jesus to justify their egos.)

You're not a good Christian. You're an angry kid blaspheming the name of Jesus.

>>17246690
Why was Lucifer cast out of heaven what was his sin?

>>17246673
its just, you think god can be measured in human standars and put yourself above him.

2 The LORD Almighty has a day in store for all the proud and lofty, for all that is exalted (and they will be humbled),

>>17246669
It's true, atheism and moral relativism put people on seperate agendas. Atheism being that they don't seek a relationship with Christ and moral relativism that people do extremely evil things sometimes with no moral code to even justify themselves besides "what's bad for you, good for me"

Each life is subjective, however there are Absolute conditions even if we can't calculate them with "science" haha.

>>17246673
Eternal suffering wouldn't be unjust if it was truly deserved, but if the mass of people show compassion towards eachother, the act of forgiveness might "shorten the sentence" of a "hell plane"

Trying to diminish ones spiritual experience isn't cool though, you only see one aspect of his "club" here online, putting a label on the whole crew isn't any better than having a whole label put on yourself

>>17246693
According to the Bible, it was vanity. But the stories and tales go back further than that. The people that describe Lucifer as either the demiurge or in opposition to it, the lead Gnostic are, it pains me to say, not wrong at least insomuch as those ideas have an established history. Other, older versions of the myth include a disagreement about perfection. Lucifer was the first to ask, "why would a good God allow bad things to happen?"

>>17246693
Depends which Lucifer, you have a few deities that have been associated with Lucifer that they melded into one.

Lucifer "makes himself like the most high" and "sits in God's throne" which takes away God's worship. Also likened to the King of Babylon (ancient Babylonian Illuminati conspiracy kek become a god) traces back to an early religion, and by denial of Christ, they set themselves up as gods.

Also, garden of eden, which is like trying to choose sides when your friends are arguing, because the apple is more than what it is in the Bible, the whole story is just so much more than someone's opinion on it.

>>17246694
God can be. You're trying to argue that your beliefs can't be questioned because you typed the word "lord' in all caps. That's childish and arrogant.

You're not god, anon. You keep claiming you are and it just makes you look arrogant and ridiculous.

>>17246695
All humans are moral relativists. Some just lie about it, that's all.

When you can show me the objective source of morality, and I mean show me, not just allude to an unsubstantiated fairy tale, then you will no longer be a moral relativist. Until then, you're a moral relativist. The only significant defining distinction is whether you're honest about that, or a liar.

>>17246666
I like your view of levels of mind and soul, dont agree with it but its a way that is based on the logical hierarchy of things, and thats okay in my book, but I think that the same way there is a god level, there is another level not for basic consciousness like that of humans, not for the typical murderer and rapist, but for things more like demons, that may begin their progression from human to demon to hell in this process of self corruption we do here. Its more of a ying and yang, not like the god level is the supreme one, but the highest level in one side of a balancing act between two powers.

But I appreciate seeing these more intricate beliefs here beside all the argument and blind belief.

>>17246701
He believed he was the equal of god and he rebelled against gods command. You are following that same road. The only person being hostile here has been you. Why does the word of god make you hostile?

2 Tim 3:1-7
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

>>17246707
You're not God, anon. Stop claiming that you are.

Mat :13
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

>>17246708
I never claimed I was god now you are putting words in my mouth. I believe in gods word and that the lord is just. You do not by the sound of your arguments.

>>17246713
Every time you say people are defying god for disagreeing with your beliefs, you're claiming you're god.

You're not God, anon. Stop saying that you are.

>>17246709
Mat 7:13 Typo I am but an imperfect being.

>>17246716
No I am stating what is said in the bible take that how you will. Life isn't fair no one ever said it was. Hell is a real place where those who refuse the knowledge of god go. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings but the bible tells you how not to go there read it. I wish you luck on your journey may you find the narrow path one day.

>>17246705
I agree that we all have different levels of morality, but there are certain aspects of morality that have Absolute quality.

It is hard when not referencing any scripture, so blowing it off as a fairy is just "as bad" as accepting it.

We all could agree killing somebody for no good reason is bad.

We could agree that wiping your butt is essential.

We could agree that human life needs air to breathe.

These are examples of Absolutes, discrediting scriptures isn't going to help either side agree because you have to see the science of the soul and it's direct relationship to God in other sources alsooutside of the Bible in order to get into this conversation, to understand morality that is Absolute.

That is Dharma.

>>17246721
You're not God, anon. You're just one person with an unpopular and not widely held interpretation of a book you clearly haven't studied that thoroughly. You're not God. All you believe in is what you believe in. And people not buying your interpretations aren't defying God.

You aren't God. You are not the voice of God. Stop claiming you are.

>>17246713
That isnt the word of god, that is what primitive man believed of god. Its a book about interpretations, old stories twisted and changed by time, please stop preaching word of men.

The people of now have the bible restricting their concept of god and creating an old image of what the concept of god used to be. If anything the change in pace from the first to second testament should be enough for you to see our view in god changes and becomes more complex, instead you blind yourself by the thoughts of men who had just discovered how to write and read.

All I is you stop being stupid asses to each other, and recognize people have different beliefs without wanting to blow them up or envision them in hell cause your beliefs were implanted into you by a mix of fear and love.

>>17246725
Those aren't examples of absolutes. Those are examples of things to "the best of our knowledge."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing

We already have examples of where one of your "absolutes" may not be absolute. And not everyone agrees with your notion of killing, as the world has demonstrated.

And for you it's hard to reference an absolute morality without referencing Scripture? Less than half the world even holds scripture as spiritually relevant. I think you're really proving my point there.

>>17246726
>Stop claiming you are.
Once more I never made this claim you are the one making it and I refute it, but I never expected you to listen any way. So I did my part take from it what you will.

>>17246706
Thanks anon. It's just for understanding.

You have someone say "hell isn't bad" and brings many people to hell by getting them to do bad things.

You have someone say "there is only heaven and hell" then you pretty much say you know it all but really no one on Earth can properly explains what happens and where we can go when we pass away.

I do believe in a Highest God, and I believe man can achieve a plane of divinity to recognize their relationship to God in order to understand the potential answers to their questions about spirituality better. Because on the internet your just gonna make people feel bad about what they believe

>>17246733
>a mix of fear and love.
Flover is, I believe, the technical term.

>>17246735
Yes, you did make the claim, and you keep making it. You're not God and just because you believe something doesn't make it correct.

You claimed you were God the minute you claimed disagreeing with you was disobeying God. You're not God and you need to understand that.

>>17246734
Just throwing out simple examples.

Absolute Truths are not based off of moral relativism. Each human is subject to their own experience with choices to calculate their own morality, however the Highest Absolutes that are beyond human cognition exist.

You need all the qualifications to make life, alive, otherwise, it does not come alive. The condition to create a living entity needs an Absolute variable in order to function.

When it comes to morality and scripture, denial of the scripture does not make your stance any more "absolute" which is the problem with the present day. Moral relativism says that religion doesn't mean anything and by denial of "religion" and scriptures, that it makes their stance more "true" because it looks "objectively without religious principles"

>>17246736
If anything you should understand where non believers come from with their hate in your arguments of hell, christianity would be such a beautiful experience and would be so much deeper if it could abandon the concept of hell and see it as the corruption and purity of your own soul. Instead of telling those who dont see it your way there is a spot in a burning pit waiting for them to check in for the rest of eternity.

I also dont really care for dedicating too much thought to what happens when I die, i dont enjoy developing a further fear of death. What happens after, no one knows and all we can do is carry an idea of what might be.

You must also recognize that man is constantly changing and evolving, both mentally and physically, and that due to this his ability to reach or grasp God may be unfinished and still developing. Pls dont be a creationist tho

>>17246741
You just claimed that something you cannot perceive or conceive definitely exists. Why in fuck's name would you say something that baseless or ridiculous?

Then you go on to make the most ridiculous straw man attack on "moral relativism." Beyond it not being a unified front or argument, no one claims that an idea is "more right" because "religion is wrong." I don't even know where you got a notion like that, but I think my use of the term fairy tale was well applied.

>>17246746
See, this is where many Christians might find me heretical? I do believe in Hell, and a lot of people are going there, but rather than say "You are going there because you don't agree with me" it should be "here is something to consider about the longevity of your soul"

Christ doesn't give up on disciples and many Christians are condemning people.

>time to spread the good word
>your going to hell

All people could go to "heaven" or at least not go to hell if they aren't serious offenders, that makes sense. God gets it, there is no way He doesn't understand the differences between each of us.

As for creationism, it is likely the "god" of the material world tries to keep us here and is a well guarded secret of our time.

It's nice, you are nice anon.

>>17246746
It's important to remember that a majority of Christians no longer adhere to those concepts of hell and punishment. This is one of the problems with a lot of the "MY BELIEFS ARE WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS" god-wannabees here. They keep claiming that what they believe is definitely and absolutely the truth of what scripture says, but a majority of those who have read that same book and believe in its divinity don't agree.

Most Christians on this planet do not hold the beliefs or interpretations of these /x/ "Christians." That alone demonstrates the relative subjectiveness of all of this.

>>17246761
You have a choice to have a relationship with God or not, and if you believe God is a fairy tale, God is going to let you believe it because it is what you want to believe.

>>17246766
Try and understand the "you are going to hell" notion might actually stem from compassion.

Some Christians might just be trying to warn you and be misunderstand (of course) at the same time.

Food for thought.

>>17246772
That's another example of God being irresponsible and unjust. It's also an example of where you're making things up; you don't know the mind of god but you're claiming you do, and you're claiming it to try and justify your own beliefs.

But, and this is most important, when I say fairy tale, I'm talking about your beliefs. You're making the same mistake others are, trying to elevate your thoughts above the realm of, "just your subjective beliefs." But that's all they are. Just your subjective beliefs.

In this context, it doesn't matter if there's a God or not. What matters is that your interpretation doesn't hold any water. It doesn't make sense and if that's what God is really like, then that's a pretty crummy God. I wouldn't worship that God. Most people don't worship or believe in THAT God.

>>17246783
Some might. The ones here on /x/ aren't. It's ego for them. They're essentially playing god and everyone they don't like they're "sending to hell."

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>>17244500
lol i never asked for this shit. you wanna crumple me up, chuck me into a material existence where people never stop fighting over who's right, nothing is explained and all is permitted, then dare to make judgments based on how i handled it?
you don't get the right. and if God does, then I must be God, because no one judges me but me.

>>17246764
Well as far as I see it there are other forms of consciousness beside us would go to hell, in that case. The way I see it most "sins" strand from a wrong or a sin done before it. An action for there to be a reaction, so if you can look at the creation of heaven/hell, light/dark from view like say that of division, like the idea of the big bang in a way. God would be one at the beginning, he would then divide his "energy" between thing like matter and its eventual development into life, with the division of "light dark" either coming in at the beginning or as a way our development became opposite or mirrored. This system along with the infinite number of stages in our development you get the actual wicked and the actual good, both of which are not human, but manipulate and influence us. Those are those who are stepping towards hell, we are just a past stage in what was their development.


At least thats one view I like to have of it

>>17246787
Anyone can get to know God. It isn't for us to call Him out on His own "mistakes" when we are supposed to be trying to perfect our self.

It also depends what your conception of God is because not sure which entity you think God is, because there is way more to knowing God than what is in the Biblr, though, Christ does give us the Way, And is the Way to understanding the basic attitude God has after the OT (whether or not OT god is God or not and which boons He is God amin and which books reference a different deity)

It matters if God exists, I never seen the narrator of the Twilight Zone in person only on a screen, I can't say he doesn't exist, even though he is on a TV screen.

So many people wrote about God on different languages, why would you discredit God of that is the case?

I get why you have your stance, based on what you believe, and because you believe it, then subjectively it stays true

>>17246783
No one from outside the belief system would view it like that, and thats not the source of its birth, the source of the birth of that concept is logically that of hate and a desire to right wrongs, equivalence. But there is a lot of hate in that concept and its quite plain to see even though its been toned down.

Hell doesnt exist
it was made to scare people into believing dogma

>>17246817
Idk. I used to be like that too, and still can be. It's like "holy shit man I could go to hell because I seen a vision of how fucked up of a person I was, and I see you there and I just want to help you" but they come off as "your gonna go bye bye in hell"

The want to help, it just matters how you direct your energy that's all

It really depends how they are trying to send a warning to you

>>17246819
It's been existing and isn't only mentioned in the Bible.

There is a lot of pop culture of hell, yes, but to know that people die could potentially go there depending on the state of their life and their own actions and deeds.

It is recorded in every other religion / "mythology"

>>17246838
Outside of belief im speaking of the birth of the concepts, lets say these concepts were taking shape from the time on moses forward, he had to lead people and he had to gain trust and the will of the people, we can say if this is the case the concept of heaven comes first, gaining followers and providing people an idea of the virtues the belief would lead to, the for control of violence and social doctrine and law you have the concept of hell, and its saying you could/would/lose a chance at heaven. This example is just for the purpose of debate, but honestly if you basis to believe, if all you envision for your beliefs is concerned on what happens after death and not actual understanding after that, das p stupid mane.

Also we have to acknowledge, all this knowledge we have is the knowledge and word of man, none of god.

>>17240883
if you believe in jesus you can be a shithead without repercussions

>>17240154
Of course if you've stopped believing in the fairy tales of primitive, ignorant cultures then you accept that there is no heaven or hell.

>>17246897
But that also makes you ignorant of the fact they could exist, there isn't a difference

>>17246897
>primitive

"The modern day alpha male is never spotted without swaging his fedora and vape, with an enlarged mass to catch females in orbit. This highly developed intelligent creature trades off brawn for edgy views of the world that often disregard, fail to grasp and alienate opposing beliefs"

Made some oc for you bb

I like the part of that story where "God" told homeboy he better grfo of the city cuz the nukes are coming to so he and his two daughters and wifey NOPE the fuck outta there buy wifey glances over her shoulder and gets turned into a pillar of salt for being such a dumb biatch. If biblecucks need more context its right after homeboy had a traveler come stay with him, and he is a good homeboy so when the city dwellers came to rape the poor travelling motherfucker all night homeboy is all like "naw man don't rape this absolute stranger, rape one of my daughters instead. After homeboy and his two daughters get out of nuketown (minus wifey) they be cave dwelling Fallout style and the two daughters start growing up and get homeboy (their fucking legitimate father BTW) wasted so they can bang him trying to get prego. This is forreal. This is from the bible. Blowing up cities and raping daughters all night and banging father's and shit. This is just one families experience. Yeah keep praising the Lord, Hallelujah!

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>>17246911
Explain how believing in Christianity or another other religion is different from believing that Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings are real.

Oh, that's right, you can't. All you can do is sputter about fedoras like every other Church Stain idiot. The moment you try to support your religious claims, they'll be torn to shreds like they are everywhere Christmonglers try to justify their crap.

I was truly blessed to have agnostic parents, and so I was never indoctrinated in religious nonsense.

>>17246787
You're such a faggot, Senator Lintwhistle. More like Senator Dolphin Polisher. Senator Cockbreath. Senator Faggotron. Douschenozzle Supreme.