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Up for solving mysterious today /x/?
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Up for solving mysterious today /x/?

I present you,

The Mysterious Hinterkaifeck Murders.


In Germany, 1922, the murders of six people at the Hinterkaifeck farmstead shocked the nation. This wasn’t just because of the gruesome nature of the case, but also because the case was so incredibly weird, and it remains unsolved to this day. Over 100 people were interviewed in the murder, but no one was ever arrested. No motive was ever established as to explain the murders. The previous maid had left 6 months earlier, saying the home was haunted. The new maid arrived only hours before the murders. It is believed that the perpetrator(s) remained at the farm for several days – someone had fed the cattle, and eaten food in the kitchen: the neighbours had also seen smoke from the chimney during the weekend. This photo depicts one of the victims as he lay in the house barn.

So, what do you think really happened /x/?

There is believed to be paranormal activity.

The maid said the house was haunted.

The its highly implied that the killers just vanished and no one(out of 100 people) knows a thing.
>>
>>17235313
Nah today isn't mysterious. We can try again tomorrow.
>>
Any information on how they met their fate? My first impression reminds me of the Axeman of New Orleans, who claimed to be a demon in a letter, and who also was never caught.
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>>17235344
According to the source, trauma to the head by a pickaxe
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>>17235344
Not OP but I think they were bludgeoned & stabbed to death. I remember reading that the 6 year old daughter wasn't quite dead when she was dumped in the barn with the rest of her family and laid beside their corpses picking away at her hair & scalp.
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>>17235376
Daughter eventually died from blood loss, I forgot to add. Spoopy stuff.
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>>17235313
You might want to explain some of the spoopy things, retard. Like the footprints..
>>
A few days prior to the crime, farmer Andreas Gruber told neighbors about discovering footprints in the snow leading from the edge of the forest to the farm, but none leading back. He also spoke about hearing footsteps in the attic and finding an unfamiliar newspaper on the farm. Furthermore, the house keys went missing several days before the murders, but none of this was reported to the police.
>>
Exactly what happened on that Friday evening cannot be said for certain. It is believed that the older couple, as well as their daughter Viktoria and her daughter Cäzilia, were all lured into the barn one by one, where they were killed. The perpetrator(s) then went into the house where they killed two-year-old Josef, who was sleeping in his cot in his mother's bedroom, as well as the maid, Maria Baumgartner, in her bedchamber.
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>>17235313
No paranormal activity. Just some guy that hung out and killed a family. We'll never know exactly who it was since the place was demolished and no forensic evidence was taken from the crime scene.
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>>17235536
Who goes around killing an innocent family in a remote farm? There must be something behind it.
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>>17235693
>Who goes around killing an innocent family in a remote farm?
A sociopath.
>>
>>17235693
Commie rebels
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>>17235723
a psychopath
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>>17235693
A ww1 vet with ptsd.
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>>17235693
a bored prick with no issues with murder
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>>17235313
The aliens did it. Ancient aliens to be particular.
>>
Hitler did it
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>>17236937
ayy lmao
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>>17235403
The footprints belonged too the family

Common sense doesn't need to be explained
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>>17235313

Copy and pasted source


Schlittenbauer was the neighbor who was also paying child support for one of the children who the town thought may have been born of incest. He's on record as making odd comments at the crime scene, and his wife said he was out working in his barn all that weekend (aside from eating and sleeping.)
He had:
Means: easy access
Motive: he was paying child support for a kid who might not be his. OR since the town had decided it was his since he'd be the only surviving relative, he'd inherit the farm - the animals being fed and watered.
Opportunity: He was their neighbor
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>>17235693
Capitalist pigs full of greed and degeneracy
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>>17237086
It was probably some creepy psychopath he stayed in the farm for a few days before killing the entire family then probably left the town

So I doubt the family knew the attacker or attackers..

I wanna know how he managed to get them into the barn one by one
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>>17237108
I think the perpetrator(s) lured them into the barn by telling each family member there is treasure or something that's hidden in the barn or that something horrible had happened in the barn. Either way, the attackers were successful in their scheme.
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>>17237142
>there is treasure or something hidden in the barn


What?

They had treasure hidden in their own houses

robbery was dismissed when none of it was stolen
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>>17237155
They could be lying though, but I think they were forced one by one to the barn. It could be done when the perpetrator can threaten them with a weapon.
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>>17237170
They probably didn't have a problem forcing the six year old into the barn...poor kid

Im still trying to find sources on how it happened


So far I think its just some creepy psycho who stalked them for many days before killing them

maybe an asylum patient
>>
There have been many cases where strangers and others (homeless people, crazy people, obsessed exes) have lived undetected in other peoples' homes for periods of time.

Whether in the attic, under the floor, in the wall, etc. And many of these cases have ended in murder, rape, arson, and so on.

The footprints leading up to the house but none leading away gives me the impression that somebody, probably a drifter, had broken into the house for food and shelter. This is supported in my mind by the strange newspaper and the footsteps in the attic. Then for some reason (maybe he was discovered by a member of the family, or he was just a complete sociopath and did it for shits and giggles) he murdered the family.

Insofar as how he managed to lure them one by one into the barn though, I have no idea.
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>>17237326
>murder rape arson

but why?
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>>17235313
>small town in the early 20s
>father sees footprints in the snow around the house
>also thinks theres somebody in his fucking attic
>doesn't do anything
>whole family gets whacked a few days later
pretty obvious it was some vagrant that was wondering the countryside, saw a house, scoped it out, killed everyone, lived in it for a few days getting well fed and rested and then took off before anyone came looking. Case dismissed

Heres a better one
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villisca_axe_murders

this actually had a list of plausible suspect and motives, most of which seem to be business related to the father
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>>17237356
y tho?
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>>17237360
some people are just fucked up and don't give a shit. Not everyone killer is some master mind with an evil plot and backstory
He saw them as expendable for his personal gain and he expended them
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>>17237326
One time when I was a child I heard some freaky shit going on in my attic at night sometimes I saw something peeking out of the attic and looking at me as I walked pass it and told my dad

My dad started hearing that shit too and thought it was some raccoon he worked long ass hours in carpentering

as time went by his guns started going missing
cops were called...etc


One day we were all eating and we all heard a noise louder than a raccoon could make in the attic

so my dad climbs up the attic armed with his hunting rifle

it turned out some creepy homeless guy lived up there for almost 6 weeks

He had my dads other guns a knife rope...etc

That fucker was gonna try too kill us

>mfw we moved out the same day and never found the guy
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>>17237373
No i mean why kill the family?

their kids were 2 and 6

What a rude fucking guest...
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>>17237394
no witnesses and if he went to those lengths probably a sadist
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>>17237390
You have awoken my inner /k/...

Why the fuck would your dad climb up into an attic with a hunting rifle? He didn't have anything shorter and more appropriate for tight spaces? Furthermore, what kind of rifle was it? I'm judging by the rest of the foolishness in that story that it was a bolt-action of some sort. That's obviously the best choice for a small space you have to climb into and you don't even know where your target will be in that space.
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>>17237405

Could have been just some sick fuck who ran away from a mental asylum and needed a place to hide for awhile

Anyone know why the girl was ripping her hair out?
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>>17237422
are you saying a rifle cant fit in an attic?
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>>17237422
are you saying that the father even had any other firearms after the squatter already stole several?
>>
http://www.defrostingcoldcases.com/case-month-hinterkaifeck/

I doubt he was a homeless man or a mental asylum person.

He was probably a farmer muscular knew how to use a pickaxe

I'm sure the police interviewed the murderer but had a strong alibi I assume there were other people as well to lie for each other
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>>17237428
Clearly a rifle can fit in an attic...

That doesn't make a hunting rifle the correct choice for ascending into a tight space in search of an unidentified target whose location in the attic is unknown.

>>17237448
I hadn't even made mention of the fact that the unknown intruder was likely armed as the father climbed into the attic with his very poor choice of weapon. Bearing in mind that the intruder was probably armed makes the whole thing even more foolish.
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>>17237044
No, fuckface. Did you even read the story, cunt.

>A few days prior to the crime, farmer Andreas Gruber told neighbors about discovering footprints in the snow leading from the edge of the forest to the farm, but none leading back.
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>>17237044
Fucking retard.
>>
>>17237455
I dont fucking know maybe he didn't care?

Maybe he wasn't an expert in close combat

maybe that was his last gun because that nigga homeless guy stole most of em?

go back to /k/ bruh

we like are paranormal here
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>>17235403
I think the OP was just asking questions to us for our opinion no need to blow a gasket
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>>17235433
>where they killed two-year-old Josef, who was sleeping in his cot in his mother's bedroom

Babies being killed just fucking breaks my heart.
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>>17237459
Okay Okay I didn't read that part just stop raging

infact why dont YOU tell us what happened then since you clearly know alot about it
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>>17237474
at least the lucky bastard was sleeping and didn't feel much...at least according to the autopsy

I feel bad for the daughter though

She got rekt'd pretty bad

"lower jaw shattered, cervical injury due to shock, severe head injuries. Skull was smashed with several blows and her neck revealed a wide gaping, transverse wound. On the right of her face was a circular wound. Her face was smeared with blood. In her cramped right hand fingers were hair pieces"
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>>17237422
Lrn 2 reed proper
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>>17237390
Jesus, you let the guy go? Why didn't you call the cops on him?
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>>17237494
We went to my aunts house and called the cops warned them he has guns...etc

paid a uhural to move and cops were there the whole time while moving
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>>17237423
What is reading properly.
She pulled hair from her mother's head I believe, possibly was lying close enough to touch her mothers head/hair, and pulled her hair out of desperation. She was only 6 after all, and dying slowly.
You probably can't think very well if you're near death.
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>>17237486
>hair pieces
>in her hand

The killer's hair?
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>>17237505
especially when you're six years old

she wasn't raped right?

pic unrelated...
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No photos of the family?
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>>17237455
What would you have done? Remember, the son and father have both been hearing shit for ages, guns and stuff go missing, then at some point, maybe during dinner or whatever, you hear loud thump from the attic. By this point you are almost certain there is someone in the attic, with your best guns.
What do you do?
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>>17237466
I like my paranormal too, bruh. But the paranormal and common sense aren't mutually exclusive.

Furthermore, this story has nothing to do with the paranormal. This was a nigga living in the attic and stealing things.

Now I have to wonder...if he didn't care, why did he climb into the attic anyway? He must have cared about his family or his house or something. And if he isn't an expert in close combat, he must at least have some knowledge of firearms, considering that he owned a few.

If he was a hunter of some sort, he should have been well aware of the significance of picking the proper weapon for the job. There's a reason big game hunters keep large caliber sidearms when they're hunting. Because if you get bumrushed by some very large and fast animal, that big-ass rifle isn't going to help you. You need something powerful, yet maneuverable and can be fired rapidly.

There's also a reason carbines and such were given to trench fighters, and SWAT teams and the like use short submachine guns.

Running into a close quarters fight with a long gun is foolish. Even more so considering that the dad in this story had time to plan everything he was doing. It's not like a gunfight or home invasion suddenly happened and he was forced to use the closest weapon he had and that turned out to be a giant fucking hunting rifle. He had time to consider what he was doing.

And if all he had was this giant fucking hunting rifle, he probably shouldn't have even attempted to go up into that attic. The family in that story is lucky they didn't witness daddy getting his head blown off.
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>>17237529
Nigga I dont know and I dont give a fuck I'm here for this unsolved mystery
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>>17237528
Call the cops, or get a better weapon, or, honestly, if you knew for sure that the person was in the attic at that moment and probably had several weapons at this points...

...maybe just GTFO of there and don't play games with this guy who is in a much better position to kill you on your way up the stairs or ladder than you to kill him.
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>>17237515
I know think that the killer realizes she wasn't dead, and pulled her away from her mother before ending her life.
She grabbed her mother as she was pilled away, then the killer smashed her head in. Because this>
>>17237486
>>
>>17237475
Just read the story then you'll know what I know, you egg.
Sorry for being a dick though, just angry atm.
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>>17237536
>>>/k/

>>17237539
Cause of death was to be shock from blood loss

>>17237545
I've been reading links you guys have been posting so far theres many theories

If the gradnfather at that farm heard nosies in his attic why the fuck didn't he contact the police?
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>>17237529
While I agree with you, this is the wrong place for this discussion, Mr /k/ommando
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>>17237533
Yeah, fair enough. I really didn't mean to derail anything. I was just struck by how poorly thought out (at least to me) the father's actions were in that story.

So nevermind me, carry on, good sir.
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>>17237536
Again, I have to agree with you. I would just gtfo. It could have ended with everyone getting murdered and raped. Or raped and murdered, lol whatever. Just chill though.
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>>17237551
You really trust the backwater town doctor/mailman/horse whisperers opinion? Especially when this>>17237486
Does not sound like a death from shock from blood loss unless she was like Chuck Norris
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>>17237563
This
>>17237553
>>17237564
>>
Killer was interviewed cops just didn't realize they interviewed the killer because there probably was more than one killer and each killer made the same story


"yeah I saw him there"

"yeah he was here with me"

Or

"yeah we was camping out in the woods/fishing at the lake"

and this was a crime of passion

this means the killer...the leader was very very angry or all of the killers were very very angry at the family

Now im not an expert so I'm not going to say why the killer (I assume killer and not killers because there was one set of footprints) was hiding in the home perhaps to scout the home?...I'm not sure.

The reason they stayed in the farm was too make it look like the family was still alive

Remember that neighbor was paying child support for one of the children right?

Incest was believed involved

The killers were for some reason very angry at the family

Does anyone have hints or clues on the reason for this?
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>>17237470
Might be good if OP posted some if the actual spoopy things about the story, seeing as we're on /x/.
Just saying.
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>>17237601
Well tell that to the op

not me..
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>>17235313
The great fucking mystery of how he lured them into the barn? Really? He had a fucking gun that's not hard.
>>
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>>17237614
Its why they were killed and who the killers are you wank...

also theres a million theories on how they were lured into the barn
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>>17237599
>one killer hides in barn
>second killer(stranger) alerts grandfather that somethings happening in barn
>killer one kills the man
>repeat
>>
The killer killed for a personal reason

this wasn't a random psychopath who targeted them
>>
>>17237636
What about the ex-husband?
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>>17237579
But it was over. I let it go. Why did you even address it again?
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>>17237539
Wait, wait, wait,

It wasn't the mother's hair it was HER hair..
>>
They wasted their time investigating 100 random people

thats the mistake

They should have investigated someone who knew the family personally

family friend, ex family member, relative, etc.

It wasn't a random vagrant, psycho asylum patient..Because if it was they would have killed another family again...

This was a one time personal killing

I dont understand why the children were killed though...must have been one angry son of a bitch..

I also dont understand why they stayed in the farm for days instead of cutting and run.
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>>17237670
Lying in the straw, next to the bodies of her grandparents and her mother, she had torn her hair out in tufts.

I can see why it might be confusing
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>>17237603
My original post was for the OP.
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>>17237614
Fleshgait
>>
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>>17237486
Just as I got finished getting high...

You're such a buzzkill anon now im depressed
>>
>>17237356
I live 15 miles from Villisca, took a day tour of the house once. You can pay to stay the night, but the fee is ridiculous.
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>>17237789
you mean too tell me they are using a a gruesome death for financial exploitation?

typical humanity
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>>17237822
Hell, I'd stay there, if not because ghosts, then at least to say I slept in the same bed someone got axed in
>>17237756
Exactly what kind of figures are we talking about here? I am intrigued.
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>>17237847
Figures?
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>>17237847
Pretty much a suspect who knew the family personally

it wasn't robbery and it was a passion of murder
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>>17237852
Like, digits, how much money. Example: $100,000 is a six-figure salary.
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>>17237789
well since you're so close...

What leads did they get?
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>>17235693
unemployed circus pinheads
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>>17237789
AYY I didn't think anyone this close to me came on here. And before anyone asks, yes, I have been to the house. No, I did not stay the night. It wasn't very spoopy when I went, it was daytime.
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>>17237353
jus cos
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>>17237943
How am I a faggot im clearly not OP
>>
it was probably just a drifter who got the bright idea to hide on top of the roof. walk about every so often then leave come back another day do it again

the maid thought she heard foot steps in the attic. if you have ever heard a roofer working on your house it sounds like they are in your attic when they are not hammering shingles and just walking around

if you are on some ones roof and they walk around their house you can avoid being seen by hiding on one side of the roof. if their is a chimney it would be easy .there is a chimney on the house

eventually the drifter decides to kill the people who live there after they feel comfortable knowing the area and if people come to the house or not
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>>17238077

I doubt it was a drifter considering how the family was murdered

i study criminal behavior and psychology in college...
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>>17237863
The post you linked has nothing to do with money, ya genius.

Hence why I asked wtf you're talking about figures for.
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>>17235313
If only forensics existed as they do today in the 20s. Not everyone is murdered for a reason. Sometimes evil people do evil things.
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>>17238356
Yes but if it were a psycho killer he would have killed again
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>>17235739
>commie terrorists
>ftfy
RHODESIANS NEVER DIE
>>
>>17237922
May I ask what area you're in? I'm in Clarinda.
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>>17238554
Shenandoah
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>>17237528
>gathered my family
>gotten any kind of weapon
>quietly leave the house
>come back with the police and or armed and angry mob of my neighbors

Ive read before on home invasions and understand how some people are literally suck between a rock and a hard place with choices but for fucks sake he heard and saw reasonable signs of an intruder and he just sat on it. and if we're talking it was me and my house, my guns are locked away save for an emergency 9mm I keep on the fridge, so my plan is the same. As soon as stuff started going missing im clearing out my attic or coming back with some friends
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>>17238356
even with forensics of today its no cake walk. So many people watch CSI and think for every crime they find a mountain of evidence, put it in a super computer and it gives you an up to date picture of a person plus his life story
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>>17238759
We dont need forensics

Today's crime investigators could easily find the killer

its just this was left in the dark and no one cares
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>>17235693
>who kills people randomly
spree killers or serial murderers. If you want a conspiracy theory type of murder look into >>17237356
whole thing smells of a dirty business hit that went too far
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>>17238762
so then why do we have unsolved murders stiil? Because if you study real true crime and criminal procedure its not easy. We've come a long way but its no point and click theres your bad guy case closed type of deal
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>>17238330
>checks link
What the fuck? I could have sworn I had linked to >>17237789
>>
>>17238775
I do study behavioral science and psychology actually...

I'm hopefully trying to get into FBI BAU

We cannot exactly find 100% who did it but we can find prime suspects

Heres what we know so far
>the murders were a crime of passion.

The killer(s) knew the family and violently murdered them out of rage, envy, jealously etc... We should look for a family friend, family member, relative, exs, steps, in-laws the neighbors didn't see a thing besides smoke coming out of a chimney?...Yeah right in daylight they were feeding the cattle someone had to see someone that doesn't belong there

>no money was stolen

means robbery was ruled out and it wasn't a random attack

You dont butcher a child or slaughter people for their money

>why were the children killed tho?

Blind rage, hatred, etc...

That person must have been extremely angry or just lacks empathy or both

>they were lured one-by-one into the barn

Speaking that it wasn't with force this just backs it up even more that they knew the killer

>maid leaves the farm claiming it was haunted

This is a little suspicious...just because you hear nosies in the attic doesn't make your house haunted the maid may have played a role into the murders for an unknown reason

>they stayed on the farm for days

Okay this is also creepy...and much of the time a random killer wouldn't stay in an unfamiliar home for that long unless they were comfortable and knew the layouts or lived there
>interviewed 100 people

Its likely they may have interviewed the killer(s) but wasn't aware.
if they planned on staying in the farm a few days this might explain why the children were killed as well

Motivation: Wrath the maid/wife(not sure which) had an ex husband correct? im sure he was interviewed however tactics back in the 20s were not as good as they are today
>>
>>17238710
Wow, I'm surprised that someone in my area gets on here. Most people I've met on /x/ who live in Iowa are either around Council Bluffs or Des Moines.
>>
>>17238821
>I do study behavioral science and psychology actually
sure you do, and im Kristen Stewart about to sign on to the big show
>>
>>17235693
Your mom
>>
>>17235693
Skeletor
>>
>>17238821
Another

They had a neighbor named Schlittenbauer whatever his name is spelled

He was paying child support for one children there not sure which

and the child was born out of incest

This guy was a neighbor who KNEW everything about the farm and the family ironically he saw nothing for days and days...Covering his own tracks?

If the person had nothing to do with the neighbor it might seem more believable that he saw/knew nothing

with only these shit clues I cant figure much out

There was a witness report however..I dont know all the details all I do know is that the witnesses reported Sigl and Pöll were behaving strangely and acting suspiciously, infact they had no reaction no emotions when they saw the piles of bodies of people they were close too

Even the fucking kid that was torn apart in the barn...
Now if this were surely a random psycho killing he would have probably killed another family

one-time killing thats usually passion

>>17238838
Why is it hard to believe people study psychology?

Everyone loves psychology

I'm only 2 years in so I dont claim to know everything
>>
>>17238821
Im not arguing any of that. What I do believe is that people take for granted how a lot of crime investigation goes. whether or not the crime happened in 20s or 2016, its not a guaranteed easy case even with the advancements in forensics. Shows like CSI or the thousand other carbon copy police procedurals make up a lot of stuff for the sake of a show, and people think that's how real police work is done
>>
The daughter was fucking her dad, pretty much everyone knew that. She then began a sdxual relationship with the neighbor (I believe), who then was accused of being the father of her youngest, which he did fight in court staying that Viktoria had admitted to also sleeping with her father during that time. I believe some type of bribe was made to the man to recant his statements of incest so the father would be released from jail and therefore the burden of the illegitimate son was placed on him, forcing him to pay child support. I can only guess he later killed the family in a fit of rage. It seems the most fitting scenario to me but it also doesn't account for some of the other random pieces, i.e. the news paper.

Just some thoughts. Forgive the crappy formatting. On a shit phone.
>>
>>17238856
grr, sexual*
>>
>>17238855
No no i'm agreeing with you

I'm just saying today's criminal investigators could probably pick up the case and figure shit out and get more logical theories behind it

I mean obviously we cant get DNA or scientific evidence like you said...

But it can be brought back to life
>>
>>17238856
>>17238821
so besides being lacking empathy or being blinded by rage

what other things motivates someone to kill a child in such manner?

It clearly wasn't sexual pleasure
>>
>>17238851
I wrote my own little version of what you stated right above mine, didn't notice till after I posted. But yes, basically all of this. Good summary.
>>
>>17237047
> no replies

Well we have an official explanation guys. Case closed. Well done anon.
>>
>>17238835
For real it's a trip, small world
>>
>>17238870
Lol I didn't see that

I just clicked reply to the lowest post i didn't check till now...

yeah good job...If a bunch of retards online can figure out who killed them Im sure today's german police can figure it out
>>
>>17238865
anger for having to basically acknowledge a child that wasn't his and child be believed was born out of incest while he was also fucking Viktoria? Jealousy, disgust, anger... he basically said he felt the child was in no way his so he had no attachment to it. During a psychotic break maybe he wanted to wipe the entire family from existence.
>>
did anyone post the son in law theory?
>>
>>17238881
Then why the 2 year old son?
>>
>>17238865
Either those or a psychotic break down and he wasn't thinking right

besides those motivations I have no idea

Its hard to find a motivation behind killing a child and toddler unless the person was very mentally ill or a pedophile for sexual pleasures
>>
>>17238860
the best we can do is speculate it. It could have been the neighbor for all those reasons, it would have been a WW1 veteran with PTSD, it could have been a hobo that just didn't give a fuck. I get your point, but especially with these old ones its mostly just guess work
>>
>>17238821
kek, Im trying to do the same. Currently taking some basic CJ courses along with my required classes at a community college
have you had any luck getting your foot in the door?
>>
>>17238874
Know any good local haunts in our area?
>>
>>17238922
Im doing okay so far...

My GPA right now is 3.2 so thats not bad for second year student
>>
>>17237756
Faggot
>>
How would you do it? Any differently?
Theres only so many ways.
>>
>>17238821
Would you consider starting a thread to answer questions about other true crime events? (Sorry for the unrelated reply, OP.)
>>
>>17238941
What you mean?

you mean as the police investigating the case or the killer?
>>
>>17238953
Im not the OP

lol

i doubt anyone would believe me...but if you want to discuss more creepy true crime go ahead..
>>
http://www.hinterkaifeck.net

wiki page about the whole thing

but its in german
>>
>>17238956
Well, the two true crime stories I'm most interested in right now aren't paranormal, but IMO the killers are really creepy, both stories covered by writer Jerry Bledsoe: Velma Barfield and Barbara Stager. I don't want to further derail the thread. (Newfag here who doesn't want to get yelled at.)
>>
>>17238972

x is super slow, make a new thread and the people will come
>>
>>17238972
Post one you're interested in

ask some questions

/x/ is here for you friend...
>>
>>17238821
>This is a little suspicious...just because you hear nosies in the attic doesn't make your house haunted the maid may have played a role into the murders for an unknown reason

Have you ever even been to /x/? People will shit themselves over far less. I don't think there's anything weird about that; just because you aren't extrememly superstitious doesn't mean nobody else is.

>Speaking that it wasn't with force this just backs it up even more that they knew the killer

How do we know it didn't involve force? They could have been forced in one at a time at gunpoint.

>Okay this is also creepy...and much of the time a random killer wouldn't stay in an unfamiliar home for that long unless they were comfortable and knew the layouts or lived there

Clearly this is a very atypical case, as such I don't think we should start ruling out possibilities left and right based on conventional theories/methodology. And if the person was a drifter, I don't think they would have problems living in a strange house for a while.
>>
>>17237632
What if someone hired on the farm was working with the person who came from the forest? Like a forward scout. The person from the forest could have hidden in the barn and the person on the farm (the new maid?) could have lured them to the barn because they trusted her. They both then live in the house for a while until they get in a fight and when you've just murdered a family, what's one more murder right? So the person from the forest kills the maid and leaves her with the family.
>>
>>17239043
highly unlikely it was a homeless drifter

They would've taken everything that was worth alot of money...including the fuckload of currency they had stashed in their farmhouse

even if this was the case he wouldn't have killed in the way he did if they're going to kill you they just kill you...not take their time with you thats psychopaths in their comfortzone not a strange home

so they would have likely just finished you off as quick as possible hide your body

Trust me it wasnt a drifter or a homeless person

they would have taken every single fucking dime and ran off...

But no...this wasn't robbery this wasn't "live in the house for a couple weeks" no this was "slaughter the entire family"
>>
>>17239095
That doesn't explain why the new maid was murdered with the family...

Also they were dead for a long time based on the stacking newspapers and child missing school as well as the decomposed bodies

if they wasn't killed instantly they would have screamed for help and someone would've heard it but theres no reports of screaming for help in the reports
since the little girl's jaw was shattered no way she could have screamed...

after the family was killed the killers may have lived on the farm for awhile because "why the fuck not? "
>>
>>17239095
Also explains why no one saw anything out of the ordinary when the killers where living in the house. The maid did all the outside chores like regular.
>>
>>17239096
I can guarantee if it were robbery the first thing a home invader and robber would do was cut an run as fast as possible the second they were spotted

They are more afraid of you than you are of them

They are in unfamiliar territory, they dont know if you have a gun, they most of the time dont scout you for a few days, they dont know if you're worst than them.

No it had to be someone who was comfortable and planned the murder for days it wasn't pre planned
>>
>>17239105
Perhaps a fight between the maid and the other killer. The other person snapped and killed her too. They killed the family all in quick succession by luring them one after the other into the barn and killing them quickly then leaving the bodies there (decomposing bodies, missing school, no screams etc)
>>
>>17239123
I assume they were killed instantly

but the maid and child were sleeping when they were killed and theres no sights of defensive wounds so a fight is ruled out
>>
>>17239136
>>17239123
like i said a fight was ruled out because the killers probably knew their victims so there likely wasn't a fight

led into the barn and stuck from behind probably by a farmer neighbor considering he knows how to work a farm and was comfortable living in one and knew how to care for the animals

so its very likely a possible former farmhand who helped work on the farm

So we're looking for
-A farmer
-Maybe a loner
-Ayran/White male
-Muscular build
-a guy with profanity with a pickaxe considering he used it really good
-Maybe someone who is impulsive and acts out violently

The killer may have had a dirty littler secret that the family knew about and that could be another possible motive
>>
>>17238930
Ever been to the witches grave in loon lake?(about 6 hours north) That place was hardcore until they dug it up and moved the grave to a museum in Spirit lake I believe. I went there with some friends before they moved it. Spooks ensued. Just google Loon Lake Cemetary. I guess there was 3 witches, one was named Mary Jane
#420blazeit
http://www.d.umn.edu/~sore0319/glocal/The%20Legend.htm
http://www.byclintedwards.com/2010/11/loon-lake-cemetery-part-one.html/
http://www.hauntedplaces.org/item/loon-lake-cemetery/
Some links if you are too lazy to google.
>>
>>17239136
How do we know the maid was sleeping? Also they possibly had a verbal fight then the other murdered quickly killed her in a way that prevented her from fighting back and moved the body to her bed because it was easier than dragging it back out to the barn
>>
>>17239155
>how do you know the maid was sleeping

The report and sources
>>
>>17237486
If the child had ripped out the killer's hair...just one little piece we would have DNA evidence now..

Shit why not just exhume them and see if any of the women were raped or if any dna was left behind

today's advanced tech we can find the guy maybe
>>
>>17237486
just look at this

>"lower jaw shattered, cervical injury due to shock, severe head injuries. Skull was smashed with several blows and her neck revealed a wide gaping, transverse wound. On the right of her face was a circular wound. Her face was smeared with blood. In her cramped right hand fingers were hair pieces"

A random killer doesn't do that especially when its not sexually motivated if
>>
>>17239161
Couldn't someone have killed her an moved her body to the bed to make it look like she was sleeping? It would be a contrast to how they killed the others but if they knew her and was intimate with her they would act differently, more gently with her body.
>>
>>17239178
No...the killers had no interest in hiding the corpses if they did they would have done a better job

like not make a big bloody mess

They just wanted to kill them quietly and not raise any alerts in the neighborhood
>>
>>17239178
Also if it were intimate we might be able to find some DNA in her...

assuming the body isnt a skeleton right now
>>
>>17235313
Hitler did it.
>>
>>17239209
hitler wasn't even in power then..
>>
>>17239187
But say they didn't intend on killing the maid so they committed the other murders as quickly as possible but then killed her several days later while inside the house so they could have carried a body upstairs and taken more care with laying out the corpse etc because no one could see them. Consider the killing of the maid as a separate event. Also it was over 90 years ago, I have a bad feeling there wouldn't be much left of them to examine.

>especially as they lost the skulls of all the victims
>>
>>17239218
There would be a blood trail if a body with that many wounds was dragged or carried away

and back in the 1920s there wasn't alot of stuff to remove blood stains
>>
>>17239218
the skulls were kept for examination
>>
>>17239224
Good point. I still think the maid was somehow involved though, the chances of her starting work on the same day as the whole family is murdered are just too odd.
>>
>>17239233
They were sent to be examined by clairvoyants (20s top tier science) and were lost in the chaos of WW2
>>
Every suspect in the case is dead. This is dumb
>>
>>17239151
Nope, never heard of it till just now. Sounds really interesting though. Have you ever been to Workman's Chapel? It's on some back road near Hopkins, MO. There's a lot of legends about that place, most of which have been proven false, but there is still a bunch of spooky activity that goes on there.
>>
>>17237455
The gun isnt the issue here. You hear 2spooky noises, you grab a weapon. Any weapon. If you want to SHOOT, you go for the smaller gun. If you want to intimidate too, you go for the bigger gun.

The teal problems here are:
>the dad somehow managed not to notice his fucking GUNS missing.
>They let the guy escape
>>
>>17237528
>Not reporting missing guns
>>
>>17239171
You are dumb.
>>
>>17238851
>Why is it hard to believe people study psychology?
For me it's the lack of punctuation.
>>
>>17241198
>not reading the thread

>as time went by his guns started going missing
>cops were called...etc

But really, it's because anon's story Never Happened.
>>
>>17241226
>>17241198
>>17241195
GO BACK TO >>>/k/
>>
>>17241221
I see...

I believe you are confusing "I studied english" and "I study psychology" with each other.

I didn't study english though.
>>
>>17235313
>all suspects are dead
>all evidence destroyed in WW2 shitstorm
>stupid cops made too many mistakes in this case

Case closed.

We will never know or find the killer
>>
>>17241221
Unless im writing an email to my professor

I really dont give a shit about my punctuation on 4hcan...
>>
>>17241157
I think I've heard of it, never been there though. If you go it to 34 and follow it east for a few hours there is a nursing home that is kinda haunted. But it's in use so you can't really investigate anyways, plus, I heard it's pretty tame
>>
>>17235693
Murderers
>>
>>17241841
I worked at a nursing home in Clarinda for 3 years, would occasionally work overnights. I saw and experienced quite a few things there, but they were also pretty tame. I think that's just how most nursing homes are.
>>
>>17237529
You just read /k/ and watch twitch right? Lol
>>
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>>17235693
actual jews
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>>17237668
Please stop posting pictures of that little girl. She seriously gives me the creeps.
>>
>>17241962
Yeah, I figured as much. So many people kicking the bucket there, some are bound to stick
>>
>>17237422
>>17237494
he's lying. i read this exact story somewhere else. he's just looking for attention
>>
>>17242191
Did you ever explore the creepy ass abandoned school north of red oak?
>>
>>17242254
Also heard of that place, never been though. I went to this place outside of KC where Union soldiers hung some family. We snuck in at night, was creepy as a motherfucker. I swear I heard voices and footsteps. My buddy took a pick and it looks like there was a spooki skari ghost in it. I'll ask and see if he still has the pic
>>
>>17235420
if it wasn't reported to the police, how do we know? have the details just been passed down through the generations?

I read all about these murders a long time ago. I don't remember what hands-on evidence or files are available.

the previous maid saying the house was haunted sounds like something someone would add on in the re-telling.

It's definitely a good one though. Drives you nuts wondering... like this one, famous for being a textbook "perfect crime":

http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/wallace.html
>>
>>17242566
Damn, that's crazy. I'd love to go back to that school, but they tore it down a few years ago.
>>
>>17236996
>40%

40% of /x/ maybe, but the U.S.?
>yeahsureokpal.jpg
>>
>>17242928
oh FFS
Obviously, I see it says 4% now.
I thought the 40% had to be a joke.

now I feel stupid!
>>
>>17237486
>cervical injury due to shock

this doesn't make any kind of medical sense

an injury to the cervical spine wouldn't be called a "cervical injury". and shock doesn't cause them, it can be a result. neurogenic shock, in fact.

was that a typo, anon? or can you tell me your source?

>>17237573
She must not have died from blows to the head (or jaw), or the possible injury to her cervical spine (back of your neck). The guy cuts her throat and leaves her to bleed. Cause of death - hypovolemic shock caused by blood loss (you loose so much blood that the heart doesn't have enough supply to keep pumping - your BP drops, your heart gives up, and everything shuts down.)

(I know this from my years at my backwater town kitten whispering school. :p)
>>
>>17243133
poor thing, that girl. I bet she was pulling her hair out, not dead from her injuries with her family dead - just freaking out, until he cuts her throat.

**also a bit of correction from same post
shock can't cause spinal injuries (that I know of), but shock could happen as a result of one. (neurogenic shock is a different mechanism than hypovolemic, but it still results in a life threatening drop in blood pressure)
>>
>>17239095
I like this. Good thinkin', anon.
>>17239105
>>17239136
>>17239149
if the maid was originally the "scout" like other anon suggested, there wouldn't have to be a fight if the killer betrayed her (for whatever reason). She may have been in on the plan to start and he was using her all along. Or maybe he decided on the way there I'm just gonna have to get rid of her, too.

The new maid is a good suggestion. Could someone else in the family (oldest daughter, the wife) been having an affair (maybe with the neighbor) with this same scenario of them planning it, but the wife/mother not making it because the killer decides they're not worth it, surprising them by adding them to the list and going solo from there?

there were incest rumors, right?
>>
>>17243133
http://www.defrostingcoldcases.com/case-month-hinterkaifeck/

I think ill take a doctor's word over yours
>>
>>17243294
the incest was not rumors..

also that theory would make more sense if it was the old maid...not the new one

>>17243174
he didn't cut her throat or finish her off she died from blood loss/shock/or the obvious injuries
>>
>>17243294
There are already two main suspects(who probably did it) in the case...both are dead

im telling you the new maid wasn't involved if any maid was involved it was the old one who knew where everything was and knew who the people were


I wanna know why the fuck the grandfather(owner of the farm) didn't report anything to the police or check for the suspicious nosies in the attic ...Lets be realistic here...

Ghosts cant do shit too you or anything they do not have powers like you see on tv...if ghosts are real they just wander the earth
>>
But why was she ripping her hair out?

I understand the amount of pain and stress she was in

but why rip her hair out?..is it suppose to help distract the pain or something?
>>
>>17243502
if ghosts were real they would be haunting their killers
>>
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>>17237486
>"lower jaw shattered, cervical injury due to shock, severe head injuries. Skull was smashed with several blows and her neck revealed a wide gaping, transverse wound. On the right of her face was a circular wound. Her face was smeared with blood. In her cramped right hand fingers were hair pieces"


Thats hot...
>>
>>17237356
Why was there basically no valuables taken, the family was rich. Also why feed the animals and why cover the bodies. What about the weird newspaper
>>
>>17242213
> i read this exact story somewhere else

I doubt that..You probably read a story that was similar to this story

Its not uncommon for homeless psychos to hide in your house for days at a time
>>
>>17243748
they either didnt have much valuables to pick from or the guy didn't want to take anything. Maybe jhe liked be a vagrant and would occasionally wipe out a family, eat their food, sleep at the house for a few days before moving on
>>
>>17244055
>they didn't have much valuable

yes they did...They had a fuck ton of money

Robbery was ruled out...Whats wrong with you people?

its common sense

if it were robbery they would have ransacked everything and left
>>
>>17244069
well then maybe he didn't want to rob them and just wanted to kill
not everyone murder is motivated by money. And why the fuck are you getting so worked up about this? Its an open discussion and its immature to shoot down a possibility just because you don't agree with it
>>
>>17244161
Are you even reading what everyone's posting or just randomly posting?

We've been through motivations and reasons behind the killings

some of us even posted sources

contribute nigga
>>
>>17237668
That photo is disgusting
>>
>>17243901
>Its not uncommon for homeless psychos to hide in your house for days at a time

kek You watch too much news.
>>
>>17244281
>kek you watch too much news

Im confused if this is an insult or trying to flame b8 me
>>
>>17244217
Im the one who posted the Viscilla Axe murder link, one of them anyway, why are you so pissy? I offered a perfectly reasonable explanation to OP's question. you need to relax a bit
>>
>>17244331
What does the viscilla axe murder have to do with this murder?
>>
>>17244346
people are posting related unsolved crime cases
you asked me to contribute.
Can you not even keep up with yourself?
>>
>>17244363
I'm not this guy >>17244217


I'm this guy >>17238821
>>
>>17237142
>treasure

They werent kids. More like he called for help or something
>>
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>>17237142
>I think the perpetrator(s) lured them into the barn by telling each family member there is treasure or something that's hidden in the barn

I didn't realize the family was jewish
>>
>>17237390
Why didnt your dad fucking shoot him?

He probably killed another family now.
>>
>>17244379
Right?

Thats literally like telling a child you will give candy too her if she gets in the van

>>17244386
The homeless guy probably wasn't there?

I dont know why, but I live alone and if I heard any creepy sounds going on in my attic im getting my smg and shooting the fuck out of the attic floor
>>
The grandfather is more too blame for this

>heard strange sounds going on in attic
>didn't check
>keys go missing
>didn't tell anyone
>signs of burglary/attempt burglary
>didn't contact police
>suspicious looking person scouting his farm
>didn't give a shit
>found human footprints in snow leading to house
>again did not contact police

What in the name of god is this man's IQ?
>>
>>17244161
Fair enough that not all murders are for the cash but if you are saying this guy is a drifter then why the hell would he not take anything at all. And again what about the animals on the farm, why would someone feed them if they weren't going to keep them or take them. I think it might have been the father, he just went sorta crazy killed everyone, stayed alive a bit, then killed himself
>>
>>17239192
It happened in 1922 numbnuts. They wouldn't have taken samples for DNA, and any that would have been left on the bodies would be degraded beyond use by now.
>>
>>17238969
learn2googletranslate
>>
>>17238893
They were witnesses. The killer wouldn't have known if the children had seen them before the crime was committed (if they didn't know the family or were going incognito), or if they were known to the family and openly walking among them at the time, the children would be able to indicate that they were there at the very least when the crime occurred. So getting rid of them along with the rest of the family would be key to not getting caught. Looks like it worked, too.
>>
>>17239105
Why does no one consider she would have been a possible witness and this person didn't want to be caught? She may have seen something, she may have seen the murders, if the person was known to the family and was hanging around the farm she could at the very least describe them if not name them. Anyone who wasn't the murderer was a potential witness, and given the atrocities committed, this person would not want to leave loose ends. And guess what? It worked! No one can place who may have been at the house because all the people who were there were killed (besides the murderer).
>>
>>17239171
It happened in 1922. They didn't know about DNA, and would not have collected that kind of evidence from the bodies. Also, the DNA would be too degraded by now to test if any was even found on the highly decomposed bodies (by now) of the victims. Plus, they'd need to have collected DNA from all of the suspects to even compare it to. Real life ain't like the tv shows bub.
>>
>>17246100
I said right now...as in 21st century
>>
>>17235356
Can we get a link to your source?
>>
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>>17246298
lurk more...like the wikipeida...unless you're one of those people who thinks wiki is an inaccurate source
>>
>>17246281
Okay, do you mean if the murders had occurred in the 21st century or do you think they could test the bodies now for dna, because I was trying to explain why they can't test the bodies now for dna and what the investigators would have needed to do back then in order for dna evidence to even be useful now.
>>
>>17246341
They knew about DNA since 1869

My point is if that was the killer's DNA and they saved it they would have caught the killer maybe in the 50s or 60s

sadly however she was ripping her hair out due to the trauma she was experiencing not the killer's...so its a fucked case anyway
>>
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>>17246100
>1922
>they didn't know about DNA
>>
>>17246100
Humanitiy has known about dna for hundreds of years

>>17246052
They had DNA testing labs in the 20s m8

>>17246315
that looks photoshopped
>>
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>>17237486
Thats fucked man...
>>
>>17244373
and I still answered you question >>17238855
You made plenty of valid points that make sense, but you cant assume everyone crime has some deep underlying cause. sometimes they are just that simple. We can debate about it but we'll never no for sure, but don't shoot down other theories because they don't seem as over the top. Think about how many famous serial killers are responsible for notorious unsolved cases throughout history simply because they found a person at the wrong place at the wrong time. Shooting down all theories accept your own is pig headed
>>
>>17238865
>>17238893
No witnesses and he needed a quick, silent weapon. Gunshots could have attracted attention and what better tool then the one you have at hand? By that point whether its strangulations, knives, claw hammers, its going to be messy anyway and if youre in that deep you probably don't give a shit anyway
>>
>>17248806
Oh...My bad I thought you were someone else

I'm not shooting down the theories per ser I'm asking questions about the theories

Im asking "how would it make sense that a brand new maid helped a bunch of killers then get killed shortly after?"

I mean you know if they didn't want a witness they wouldn't have asked for her help

Now the maid theory would make more sense lets say

You know the old maid left the house with the "its a haunted house" excuse she could have aided the killers in some ways

However evidence strongly implies that the killers KNEW the family and KNEW the lay out of the farm and were very likely farmers so why would they need an inside job?

I apologize if i sounded like I was shooting down theories I was just questioning them to understand them better
>>
>>17245468
>didn't want/care for valuable, what good is a family heirloom to a hobo? Maybe he took some loose money but that's all he needed/cared for
>keeps up appearances , if youre going to stay there (others said they saw smoke from the chimney) you don't want to do ANYTHING that would draw attention to a multiple homicide
>maybe, but there are more efficien ways to off yourself, guns, cutting your own throat if you hate yourself but a claw hammer? And the father said to the neighbors about footprints and things going missing. more than likely an outsider
>>
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>>17248815
>2 year old toddler
>sleeping
>witness

I think it makes a little more sense to say that the killers targeted the whole family...
>>
>>17248828
IMO, the two best theories are some vagrant wanted a place to stay and didn't mind wiping out a family for it (maid happened to have shit luck, stranger things have happened)
or it was a family organized hit and the older maid was in on it. Any info in what happened to her after all this?
>>
>>17248841
bloodlust and the slim slim slim possibility Jr wakes up, looks out the window, sees you whacking the whole family but you don't notice and he gives a simple description to the cops
Once youre in that deep then fuck it go big or go home
>>
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>>17244420
I would flip shit if i saw foot prints leading to my house
>>
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>>17235693
ses
>>
>>17248856
if it was a "bloodlust motivation" thats related to mental illness such as psychopathy

in other words they would have killed another family

not just kill once and never again

>>17248845

And I agree. It's not uncommon for psycho vagrants to want a place to stay for awhile

However as I've said before...Psychopathic vagrants/crazied dickheads would kill again and again until their caught the killer(s) killed only once and didn't show up again...If he was motivated by needing a place to stay he would have killed another family and invade their homes

and alot of the times these vagrants would loot as much as they can money, jewelry, watches anything that is worth value...The report stated nothing was stolen

much of the time the killer would not violently murder someone unless they were angered thats pretty much the whole point "a crime of passion"

Violently murdering someone fueled by emotions.
Its rather uncommon or even rare for a sane vagrant to invade a home and seriously harm a child/toddler/woman etc...most of the time they will just camp in your basement/attic

Lets not forget the killer(s) were taking care of the farm

this means we're looking for someone who KNOWS how to run a farm
Probably a farmer or someone with farming experience

The maid went into the dark after leaving

No one knows what really happened to her...

Now again I know it sounds like im shooting down your theories I'm just speaking what I learned in criminal psychology courses
>>
>>17248897
who knows if he never killed again? he could have killed across Germanh/Europe but everyone was rebuilding after ww1 so the records were shit
>>
>>17248912
Thats a fair point actually...

But could he knew how to run a farm...
>>
>>17239043
Why do people keep saying gunpoint? How would the rest of the family not notice screaming if they were being murdered one at a time in the barn by bludgeoning. And if there's only one person with a gun going back and forth before murdering them, why wouldn't they just make a run for it?

I guess I'm missing something here.
>>
>>17248970
Because there was no weapons

I highly doubt they were intimidated into the barn instead they were cored into the barn then the killer stuck them from behind
>>
>>17239115
I read the money was HIDDEN in the farmhouse. So a robber wouldn't necessarily take it if he or she didn't know it was there.

But, then again, that doesn't mean I tell my friends or family if or where I hide money in my house.
>>
>>17239105
Maybe stayed until the bodies started to smell.
>>
>>17239176
Not all violent crimes are sexually motivated. And we can't be sure it wasn't.

Didn't BTK ejaculate in his pants after hanging a little girl in the closet? So it didn't need to involve rape, either.
>>
>>17246960
>Mysterious Hinterkaifeck Murders
you are stupid bait
>>
>>17248988
Yes but they still have much valuables if the maid was working with them she probably would have told them
>>
>>17249008
>not all violent crimes are sexually motivated

Yes..that-thats what I was saying

like this guy said >>17238821
A crime a passion is motivated or fueled by emotions

I don't know shit about psychology but thats pretty accurate
>>
>>17243522
Some people just do this. Some people eat their hair. It's just another weird thing people do. I don't think her pulling out her hair is that anomalous.
>>
>>17249027
Oops. Meant to say can't be sure it was*.
>>
>>17248919
putting out food for the animals isn't rocket science, especially if youre going to leave in a few days and don't care if its done right
people only noticed something was wrong a week after the family died and activity stopped on the farm
>>
>>17248839
This family was loaded, they had gold, jewellery and cash for him to steal but no, all that was taken was a couple notes from the wife. And no one would know whether or not the animals were fed and that wouldn't be necessary to do to make it look like everything was normal cause the family lived out of the way. While there may be more efficient ways of killing yourself, he probably went mental and just offed himself with an axe
>>
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>>17237390
My aunt had someone living in her attic, well more like he was hiding out. He knew my cousin and broke into the house through a window one day. Since nothing was stolen they didn't even know he was there but they started hearing weird noises from the attic and food was missing that none of the family members said they had eaten. Uncle went into the attic with a flashlight but didn't find anything weird so they thought it might be squirrels or rodents in the attic making the noise. Then one day they started to find stuff stolen and a window was unlocked from the inside while they were at work. So they called the police and they did a full search of the attic and found the guy. He was recently released from jail and on the run for parole or something. He had created an area in the insulation and was living in there and that's why my uncle didn't see him up there when he searched. Anyway he wouldn't come out so they called in the Swat team and dragged him out. Not the coolest story but he was living up there for a couple weeks.
>>
>>17243443
lel, "doctor's word". you know your site is translated from a German one? or at least your site's "sources" are German? Though when you follow the "autopsy results described here" link, and put in the suggested text to google translate, it has nothing to do with the autopsy!

Since you aren't too bright, (and the sources link was hogwash) I was nice enough to search the German source for autopsy results and did get this:

>Dr. Aumüller erklärte bei der Sektion der 11-jährigen Viktoria Gabriel (An. er meint Cäzilia Gabriel), dass das Kind bei rechtzeitiger Tatentdeckung noch hätte gerettet werden können, nachdem durch den Schlag eine Halsverletzung herbeigeführt worden ist, die erst 2-3 Stunden nach dem Schlag den Tod herbeiführte. (Quelle: Aussage des Heinrich Ney vom 19.1.1953)

From google translate
>Dr. Aumüller explained in the section of the 11 -year-old Viktoria Gabriel ( At . He thinks Cäzilia Gabriel ) that the child with timely Tatentdeckung still could have been saved after a neck injury has been caused by the impact , the only 2-3 hours after the shock death brought about . ( Source: statement of Heinrich Ney from 01/19/1953 )
what do you even disagree with in my post? did you read the posts I was replying to? what part of my post did you think was wrong?

I'm not trying to fight with you. I'm medically trained and was trying to clarify a few things for the other kind anons in the thread.

what does the "doctor's word" mean to you? that a "cervical injury due to shock" is a thing? if so, what exactly, is that? or did you just think the you girl didn't die from bleeding out, but from her wounds?

I don't get it. Help me understand, anon.
>>
>>17243454
Ok the axe wound to the neck might have been the death blow. But she had a bunch of injuries. I was just attempting to explain the hair in her hands (and that I'd read somewhere in all of this that the girl was attacked but remained alive for a while). It's possible he injured her (knocked her out, thought she was dead, or left her incapacitated but not dead - she pulls out her hair) and then he goes back and gives her the severe gash in her neck.

Anyway, yeah, was just speculating on what I understood from the details I knew/heard. Sorry for any confusion.
>>
>>17250679
>>Dr. Aumüller explained in the section of the 11 -year-old Viktoria Gabriel ( At . He thinks Cäzilia Gabriel ) that the child with timely Tatentdeckung still could have been saved after a neck injury has been caused by the impact , the only 2-3 hours after the shock death brought about . ( Source: statement of Heinrich Ney from 01/19/1953 )

Explains the hair pulling. It was estimated she was alive an hour or two until she succumbed to her wounds and died from shock!
>>
>>17244281

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvWY3JOVwX0

I was reading through the thread and wrote this post.>>17250675

It's not that uncommon but this youtube video does show some of the crazier examples but it usually turns out like my aunt and uncle's house. My cousin knew the guy, he didn't hurt anyone and he was just trying to hide from the police.
>>
while the thread is still up, do you guys want to talk about this legendary unsolved murder?

>>17242913
>http://www.chesshistory.com/winter/extra/wallace.html

http://gizmodo.com/the-story-of-the-1930s-impossible-murder-that-utterly-1732706999

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Herbert_Wallace

Can /x/ solve the unsolvable?
>>
>>17250748
Don't ever fucking reply to me again.
>>
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>>17248861
exellent post
>>
>>17235313
>literally a farm in the middle of no where

>food ate, smoke from fire in fire place

Yup was demon I am demonology professor at the university of modern bullshittary
>>
>>17249960
or, for the hundredth time, it was a bum who didn't want any money and just wanted to kill. Ted bundy, the night stalker, and the BTK all could have raided the families home they broke into but aside from a few trophies just wanted to straight up murder the family. Its not that crazy of an idea. Killing yourself with an axe is
>>
>>17250709
it was a pickaxe

not an ax

I dont think he went back he probably thought she was dead and put her body with the others

>>17250679
wtf are you talking about?

You wanted a source I gave you a source

and its in english

>Cazillia Gabriel (daughter Viktoria Gruber): lower jaw shattered, cervical injury due to shock, severe head injuries. Skull was smashed with several blows and her neck revealed a wide gaping, transverse wound. On the right of her face was a circular wound. Her face was smeared with blood. In her cramped right hand fingers were hair pieces."

I dont fucking know but even the wikipedia is saying it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurogenic_shock
>>
>>17251489
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_shock I meant this one
>>
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>>17250679
The doctor was saying that due to the injury she fell into shock
>>
>pickaxe
the point is, it took her a couple hours to die. hair in hands explained.

>>17251489
read my post again, maybe. I don't think you fully comprehended it.
I didn't ask you for a source.
I explained why your source was pretty bullshit though, for a couple of reasons.

also:
>cervical injury due to shock
>due to shock

explain how shock causes a "cervical injury"

find one source that says "cervical injury" other than your page, preferably a source from a professional medical site (optional)

yeah, I know neurogenic shock, I talked about it here >>17243133 and specifically here >>17243174

>>17251492
WTF haha

>>17251497
yep, I know. see above, where I explained "shock" and why it was the cause of death (as a result of injury.

OH THAT'S RIGHT - injuries cause the shock condition...WHICH MEANS "CERVICAL INJURY DUE TO SHOCK" IS NOT A THING
>>
>>17251492
yeah, that doesn't kill you.
neurogenic shock can, though!
>>
>>17251489
I did ask for a source earlier. The way you replied to me didn't make that clear though, since you weren't replying to the post where I asked for it.

I did get to your source though. the defrostingcoldcases page?

And I explained already the problems I had with that site.

my guess is because they used the german site to source the description of her injuries something got lost in translation that ended up giving you
>cervical injury due to shock

but yeah, trust that doctor's opinion on some random page for a cause of death that doesn't make medical sense but makes sense to you because you won't trust the explanation a medical professional anon gives you.
>>
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>>17251024
I just replied to you

deal with it
>>
>>17251333
You're saying its not that crazy to not take money but just kill an entire family and maid? Killing yourself with an axe is crazy but to be in the state the father would have had to have been in to kill the family anyway would make killing himself with an axe slightly understandable, that's why I think the father and not a bum or drifter. The idea that they would take no money or valuable and all the other weird stuff makes it seem the father just went crazy
>>
>>17255313
I work part time as a first responder and have been to plenty of suicides. 90% of the time people are looking for an easy way out (shooting, poison) and then a handful of people who truly hate themselves/their families and want to suffer and or make a mess. Box cutter to the throat, cutting wrists, most creative ive seen is a dude putting on a noose, tying it off to a tree, getting in his car and flooring it ripping of his own head. M.E. said it was pretty quick, but still. I and to my knowledge none of the other guys, have see somebody beat them serves to death with an axe or in this case claw hammer. Youd probably loose consciousness before you could inflict that amount of damage. He'd still die from trauma and blood loss but it sounds like they were all beaten to a pulp
What I am saying is the two theories I believe are the family's relatives or close friends knew of the inner problems >>17237047 and decided to kill them or it was just a random drifter in post ww1 Germany who deiced to kill a secluded family live at their house, maybe take small things like money but not silver or valuables because what good is that for a bum? There are plenty of documented serial killers in post ww1 Europe
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haarmann
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_K%C3%BCrten
>http://murderpedia.org/male.D/d/denke-karl.htm
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gro%C3%9Fmann

You have to wonder how many unsolved cases these guys caused, and with everyone trying to reorganize after ww1 plus it being in bumfuck no where the idea isn't any ,ore irrational then a dad beating himself to death with a claw hammer
>>
>>17237108
psychotic not psychopath
>>
>>17237529
Solid points, good analysis
>>
>>17237108
>>17237142
he probably attacked the adults, specifically the father, first. with the opposing threats gone he led the rest out either by fear or force or even lied and said just wait in the barn. they go in, see the body pile and he kills them before they can react
>>
>>17235693
Serial killers maybe? I know that sounds crazy.
>>
>ITT we all pretend we're super detectives who know what the fuck we're talking about
>>
>>17239115
>and planned the murder for days it wasn't pre planned

wat
>>
>>17257192
He means the killers were planning on killing the family for days

you know...Conspiracy to commit murder...
>>
>>17239210
That's the point.
>>
>>17239261
YOUR FACE IS DUM!!!!!!!
>>
>>17239209
Faggot
>>
>>17257545
Faggot denied
>>
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>>17257142
Just because you're a dumb fuck doesn't mean everybody else is anon
>>
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>>17257588
You're right...

My tested IQ was 85 anyway
>>
>>17255909
It was a bit too long after ww1 for it to be a drifter from the war surely. And I know I've said it but the idea of a bum taking nothing (this family was loaded not just valuables but cash as well) is nonsense, they must've wanted some cash to buy food with. You mention relatives, the biggest suspect was a family friend I believe who upon seeing the family dead had no reaction and was supposedly fucking the daughter, it was probably him. The other spoopy stuff is just too weird tho, newspaper, footsteps in attic and forest, feeding the animals. All weird spoopy stuff and guess what, well never know what happened
>>
>>17257614
God damn I feel bad for you.

Have a picture of Meg Turney in her underwear to cheer you up.
>>
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>>17257808
wtf phaggot the pic didn't upload
>>
>>17257614
GOOD NEWS, ANON!
We forgot the '1' in front of '85'. Sorry about that. You're a genius!

Sincerely,
Internet IQ Test Division
>>
>>17257808
I don't really care..

IQs dont affect academic learning

so far so good
>>
>>17257614


EVEN BETTER NEWS, ANON!

Our tester meant to say '2' in front of 85'. Not '1'. You're a super genius!

Sincerely,
Internet IQ test management

PS: To this anon>>17257814
You're fired.
>>
>>17257833
Oh go fuck yourself you unoriginal shithead.
>>
>>17257838

Now now, I'm sure you can find employment elsewhere.

I hear OP is looking for a male prostitute for oral sex.

Its competitive pay!
~Your former boss
>>
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>>17257790
>It was a bit too long after ww1 for it to be a drifter
Yeah, millions of people whos countries were destroyed both physically and financially who had nothing to go back to and were suffering from PTSD got there shit together in a few years. pull you head out of your ass, youre embarrassing yourself
>>
>>17257790
maybe he took some small things and some cash, maybe he was more focused on a warm bed and a good meal for a few days,maybe the investigators fudged it and forget to add certain things into the official notes because it was a small place in the middle of nowhere and this was back in the 20s. We still have that happen even today
>>
>>17257790
you know there are lots of homeless veterans in the country right now, right? And the stuff we do in the middle east in like a fraction of the things that went down in ww1
>>
Why the fuck would a homeless vagrant be in the country side?
>>
>>17257889
This guy...

there is literally no homeless people in the farmland/country/rural/hamlets

They live off people

There are no people in hamlets
>>
>>17257874
I'm implying the drifter wasn't involved in the war and just fleed his country, also if he was a drifter he didn't drift very fucking far, hinterkaifeck is close to a lot of battlefields in terms of would scale. I would have though most drifters from ww1 would've ended up way more south of Germany or east of Germany not nearly dead fucking center (I accept that my comment was pretty fucking dumb, didn't think about it)
>>
>>17257883
A fraction in what way, the bombs and guns we have now are way more technically advanced then ww1. The amount of things that happened in ww1 is more but surely the damage may be the same
>>
>>17257889
He could live off the land and become a hermit. If you knew survival and knew the lay of the land well enough you can live in the wilderness or an abandoned shed. Hell, if you're resourceful enough you can build your own shelter.

>>17258049
>we have now are way more technically advanced then ww1
Nigga look up strategic bombing and how precise we are at it. Back then there were no advanced guidance systems, you just threw as many bombs and mortars at the general location of the enemy and hoped the calculations were correct.
>>
>>17258177
What? I'm saying the same thing as you
>>
>>17242012
How the fuck have I been browsing /pol/ for years, yet have never seen that merchant?
>>
>>17258049
>surely the damage may be the same
just stop
>>
>>17258038
id say there about a 50/50 chance of him either being a veteran or a regular person whos life was changed by the war,
>>
>>17258049
I was with you until you starting spewing this crap, you're obviously a child talking out of your ass
>all vets were fine after a few year post ww1
>we have more tech now, so its worse the ww1
leave your basement for a little while for fucks sake and read a history book
>>
>>17235693
Niggers
>>
>>17237142
>Hello Stranger, you have hidden treasure inside the barn you built.

This board gets dumber when we aren't trying to summon a succubus.
>>
>>17237170
>The murderer could've been lying about the treasure.

...
>>
>>17235693
That's the scary thing, anon; sometimes there isn't.

Sometimes men just break.
>>
>>17235693
Hitler
>>
>>17260063
They were jewish thats why they fell for it
>>
>>17238883
>During a psychotic break maybe he wanted to wipe the entire family from existence.
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