Remember that bizarre "alien megastructure" that scientists later explained away as "comets"?
Well, it's happening again boys, even more than before:
>Comets can’t explain weird ‘alien megastructure’ star after all
After seemingly be explained as a natural phenomenon, this star's mystery is still intact, possibly deeper.
Just let that sink: it is not an error of Kepler. It has seemingly been dimming for a century or so.
In order to explain such short (and at the same time, long) enough dimming, the options are running out. In order for comets to explain this, you would need to have a series of thousands of comets, all with very precise sizes and masses, all precisely aligned and synchronized with us , in order to explain the dimming.
Some say the star itself maybe not as mature as they think (unlikely, giving the very consistent and mature state of our knowledge of star's aging telltale signs), but the options are really running out.
The CHANCES OF IT BEING ALIENS ARE INCREASING
IT'S OFFICIALLY, SCIENTIFICIALLY HAPPENING
Or it's possible that something else is happening that we don't fully understand. If we have oceans of water just drifting around in space, it's not unlikely that something we don't know yet could be happening as well.
Let's say it is a Dyson Sphere. If they have the technology to do this, why is it happening so slowly and in phases? Because any being who could somehow create that sort of technology would just do it and wouldn't take a century to do so. Or would have no need for a Dyson Sphere because they're so advanced they can just leave their solar system and colonize other worlds and even other stars. And if they're not that advanced to do those things, why the fuck do they need a Dyson Sphere for then? Because such a thing is no small undertaking. The amount of resources necessary to surround your entire sun with a sphere is a big deal and nobody would do it for shits and giggles. You'd need entire PLANETS to fucking do this. Even more if you're only accounting for actual materials and not the mass of the entire planet. Do you know how big of an undertaking this is? We could use the entire mass of every planet in our solar system and still come nowhere close to the amount of materials necessary to fully encapsulate our sun. And this is made even harder by the fact that you'd need certain materials and couldn't just use the useless dirt on planets in order to make it. And even more given the amount of mining necessary to get materials, fuel shuttling it back to the original star system, etc.
So, really, what's there to gain? If they had enough material to do this, they're already so expansive and so advanced that they can afford to do this. At that point they don't need a god damn sphere around their sun.
this dude >>17226604 is right doe, i mean its 1500 lightyears away so it literally doesnt matter if its alien, we have no way of interacting with it and even if we send a primitive message now it would take atleast 1500 years to get there, and lets not forget that we are seeing images as they were 1500 years ago, "they" might not even be there anymore, furthermore they might not even care for us even if they were listening, only purpose for this discovery is that yay aliens more advanced than us exist, it gets those tinfoli people boners super hard and they can now say "i told you so" eventhough that doesnt prove that aliens are here on earth atm, and we might be able to start up the space race again and do something fun on this shithole instead of fuckingeachother in the ass allday long infront of some reality tv show
It serves no purpose if we can't do shit about it nigger
aliens that are 1500 lightyears away
not that far for aliens especially if they have the tech to absorb solar energy on the scale that such a structure would be able to do
also how do you even come up with the materials for that?
stars are gigantic
>blacking out your own sun
>not enough material in the star system
Irrelevant, since you'd be building in another system anyways. Cargo ships nigga
>Whats to gain
Practically limitless power is now secured for the rest of your entire species meaningless existence
>they dont need to build a sphere
NEAR LIMITLESS POWER. NEARUNLIMITED. IN FACT, SO MINUSCULE IS THE FACT THAT IN A PERIOD OF 1000^10 TIMES THE ENTIRETY OF YOUR SPECIES COAGULATED SAPIENT SHAMBLING THAT YOU CALL ALL OF HISTORY THE SUN WILL FUCKING EXPLODE, THAT ITS SAFE TO SAY ITS COMPLETELY LIMITLESS
A Dyson sphere doesn't have to be a solid sphere. It could consist of lots of small satellites being launched over a period of time and forming a swarm around the star.
And I could easily imagine even a solid sphere needing to be built slowly over a period of a hundred years. Just because the aliens are advanced enough to do that doesn't mean they'd be wizards or something and not be constrained by limited resources / whatever.
>1500 lightyears away
>we have no way of interacting with it
A radio signal would reach there in 1500 years. We could send a "hello" now and get a response in 5016.
>we have no way of interacting with it
>what is human hubris
Nigga, it's just the fact that we can all die off secure in the knowledge that there is other life out there. That's a more calming feeling than "IM A LITTLE SNOWFLAKE HUMAN AND IM ALONE IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE! LOOK AT HOW USELESS I AM!"
I would expect this kind of lack of imagination from /sci/. It is as likely that the life form building out the swarm of objects around Aichan are unintelligent. They could just be a massive swarm of space dragon flies following primitive instincts like bees that eat plasma or molecular hydrogen and convert star light into energy using turbo photosynthesis.
The objects of the Dyson swarm could even be the entities themselves reproducing by consuming random molecules from the interstellar medium. Or by digesting the star's solar wind and accreting it into new mass.
It could be this, what if they just did it for fun, and we find enough to realize that it's an alien Advertisement. They are a race that no longer understands manipulation with words and we can just tell them what to do.
I agree, the question about aliens is always presented as "are we alone?"
We don't want to be alone, we are always looking for something more, something new. I for one would be relieved to know there is other intelligent life in the universe. Even non intelligent for that matter. The fact that life on Earth isn't just a mistake, a fluke. Whenever we find new planets that are similar to Earth I get super excited. Of course, if we did find a planet with primitive life on it, I doubt the governments would tell us right away. I like to think something like that has already happened. It keeps me sane in this mundane exsistance of mine.
AYY LMAO FOR PRESIDENT 2016
Dyson Sphere doesn't equal a solid object.
It could be instead a series of billions of massive, paper thin solar-panel satellites set up in a dense cluster that forms a partial or complete covering around the star. These could have gaps of thousands or even millions of miles between them letting some light out (and accounting for the unusual dimness of the star) while still collecting an absurd amount of energy.
A solid Dyson sphere is probably impossible. However Ringworlds or the aforementioned "Dyson Swarm" are very much possible (although both would take a incredible amount of resources and maintance to keep running).
It is not about communication. The idea of something beyond our world is extremely life changing, I guess you are a kid and actually grew up when atheism is called atheism, they used to just be called devil worshippers.
Why does it have to be a Dyson sphere? Dyson spheres were cooked up here on earth a couple decades ago.
If this is a civilization, it's at least 1500 years ahead of us, puny ants that we are.
With at least 1500 years advancement, they could be doing something with their star we can't even begin to imagine.
Theoretically I guess.
But we don't even have the resolving power to look at fine details of planets in our own solar system, that's why we still have to send out probes to take closer looks.
talking about time and trying to send a message, I read a really good scifi book about space travel. The story followed a crew that would travel between systems, trading and exploring. During their adventures the places they visited were advancing in technology faster than those on the ship because time dilation. It became so bad the stuff they traded was junk and the crew could hardly even understand others around them. The crew became a fossil to those around them.
Imagine being on a ship with near light speed transportation to a distant galaxy..the trip taking years and when you get there those you left behind got there quicker and were waiting on you
Dyson sphere is what happens when an civilization succumbs to cultural autism. The stress of reaching out through the chasm of space to find other life and the nervousness of trying to find common grounds through which to speak and understand has grown too much for the collective conscious of the civilization to process.
The only option is to shut away the rest of the universe. To build up the greatest possible wall between you and otherness. To hide in the light, shaded from the universe around. To become a star system hikkokomori.
This is not simply the dimming of a star, it is dimming of a culture's spark which should burn with wonderment and hope.
You did well distant civilization bro. You tried your best. It's alright. You have come far enough. Try to find peace. The universe does not judge, it accepts all. Should we one day call out to you to ask if you're alright, do not feel pressured to answer. We are just letting you know that we care. It's alright.
Try this one for size. Build a robot probe with the following capabilities: able to utilise solar energy, able to extract raw materials from asteroids, able to manufacture fuel and refined materials, able to create copies of itself. Result - gradual dimming of star as the system fills with copies, irregular occlusion of large part of light of star.
No, you are the one that's ignorant. You don't give a fuck about science, you just want to mentally masturbate about shiny things. Your knowledge of science comes from youtube videos and blogs - except it isn't actually knowledge, just a whole lot of pseudoscientific bullshit.
Truly individualism at its worst.
>this doesnt effect me
>therefore it isnt important
It doesnt do anything to you but the people 400 years from now will be changed as will the Earth as a whole
Did you even read my post?
We could find out they're real now and we wouldn't be able to do a thing about it. It's not individualism it's pragmatism.
We find aliens so what?
We have no way of reaching them.
We have no way of communicating to them.
We aren't astronomically big enough for them to notice us.
It's not even that our technology is there, but space is massive. There's no known way to get to their planet without a ton of years of light speed travel.
This is the reality of space.
discovering evidence of life outside of our solar system, whether in immediate terms we can investigate it further or not, would change the world we live in forever. you fucking retard.
Not only that but >makes errors when copying
Now it's an evolving organism
Except it wouldn't.
>underestimating the status quo this hard
Change only happens when there is adversity. Life too distant and possibly in a state of ruin, not adversity.
>discover sentient life
>fundamentalists declare they are damned because they didn't know Jesus died for their sins
>Jews will find no means to get money from this life and give no shits
>new age fuckers will try to sell salt crystals that will help us amplify our thought output in order to obtain mental connectivity to aliens
Hurrrr we would try to contact dem!
>increase Aerospace spending from 2% compared to defense spending to 3%
>SETI redirects all the scanning to singular spot
>picking up infomercials and static because 1500 years ago we weren't worth talking to and probably still aren't going to be communicating anything to us or in a manner we would be able to decode without quantum computers and some magical means of discerning how their conscious works, if they have one, god fucking help us if they don't. There's no goddamn point communicating in radio at interstellar distances.
>we try to say hello
>we try to say hello to something 1500 years in the future
>we try to say hello to something 1500 years in the future that doesn't know we're here and probably didn't fucking hang out in that system after it became frightfully cold
Who the fuck cars? Every one who isn't blind knows that aliens are real, that they are here and that they have been here for quite some time.
Nothing new at all.
>we try to say hello something 1500 years in the future
>it's a fucking matrioshka brain because literally there's no point in making a dyson sphere if you are already operating in an interstellar scale, which you need to be in order to make a dyson sphere
>we try to say hello to a system made out of a system 1500 years in the future: Bad command or file name
Hurrr it's a super advance computer, of course it will understand us no matter the civilizational cognitive barriers
>1500 year up/down connectivity
>loading a 5mb animated gif at 12K baud feel
>Connection to matrioshka brain continually times out for the next ninety millennia
>our interstellar empire finally finishes flinging signal amplifiers along the distance from our resource drain system to matrioshka brain
>no one fucking remembers this endeavor after 200 millennia
>some autistic data miner manages to stumble onto this shit
>connects to star computer
>User not found, please register
>Autistic data miner too used to the sort of functionality and operational speeds of his generation gives no shit about super old server from a podunk system from a civilization that had already died/went senile and forgot this shit was built/we sneezed it to death
Not him but those are hypothetical forms of space travel. Nothing set in stone yet. Hence "hypothetical" or "theoretical".
Of course that anon sounds a bit ignorant as well but fighting ignorance with ignorance isn't effective.
Let's hit you with more status quo just so you can understand how fucking retarded it is to think anything will change.
There are people that go up to astronauts are tell them they've never been to the moon.
There are people that think the Earth is flat or hollow.
There are people that think the sun is a glass nuclear prism in a giant glass bauble that we can visit psychically on a boat and it shoots earthquakes.
This shit numbers in the multiple tens of thousands and it isn't even the worst we have to offer.
We found fucking ice on Mars.
Actually fuck that, we found ice on the goddamn moon after fucking falcon punching it with a can't poo in the loo space program.
Look how much that changed for us.
No one gave a shit about free sources of water.
No one gave a shit about ancient bacteria.
Things need to actually impact us to change the status quo. A highly, highly hypothetical megastructure is not something that will change the status quo.
And how could it, space is black dome with light bulbs stuck to it, blanketing our flat fucking Earth.
It's true though. That is like starving your self to death so kids 70 years from now can have more food. Anything that won't be around in my lifetime is a pointless waste of resources.
if we discovered with indisputable proof a massive alien megastruture 1500 light years away then everything would change. I dont know how you could possibly think it wouldnt.
Not the same person, but he's basically saying that it wouldn't change anything because people are fucking stupid what with their conspiracy theories or shit simply not being 'cool' enough for them. Even if a Dyson Sphere was a legit thing to be discovered from some advanced civilization, it'd be so watered down by conspiracy BS or people simply not being impressed enough with it for it to really make any sort of major impact on how humans think, behave, and continue on about their day.
The chances are high that it'd be forgotten about in a month or less from the greater majority of the worlds population. The ones who scream their conspiracy shit or think it's stupid, only leaves those that don't care because it's 'so far away' and so 'why should it matter'.
>We have no way of reaching them.
>We have no way of communicating to them.
>We aren't astronomically big enough for them to notice us.
And as long as there are still people who think like that, we never will be.
How does it feel to be the retarding tumor on the brain of mankind?
A pointless waste of resources to someone that doesn't care about the advancement of the human race. My point still stands. The people that can't see or care about anything beyond themselves are the bane of our species and contribute nothing in the long run. Also
>comparing nonessential resources to an essential, self-replenishing staple of organic life
The earth would be a better place if your dad had pulled out
"The weirdest star in the cosmos just got a lot weirder. And yes, it might be aliens."
"What about those alien megastructures? Schafer is unconvinced. “The alien-megastructure idea runs wrong with my new observations,” he says, as he thinks even advanced aliens wouldn’t be able to build something capable of covering a fifth of a star in just a century. What’s more, such an object should radiate light absorbed from the star as heat, but the infrared signal from Tabby’s star appears normal, he says."
A+ article OP, totally not clickbait.
On topic: Probably not aliums, more likely to do with star composition, shoddy past scientific recording, or unknown distortions in space between us and them.
>blind scientific research benefits us
Earth has problems too.
A Dyson sphere would emit infrared signals.
Again, a Dyson sphere is just a science fiction concept; if the cause of this anomaly is of artificial origin, it could well be a type of megastructure we are not aware of.
Yes. Heat always escapes. Black body at the minimum. They'd have to keep it at absolute zero otherwise, and they won't be collecting any energy if they're doing that.
Yes it's not clear what the authors meant, but the signal should gain in IR and lose in other wavelengths if it's a Dyson sphere. Either they meant it is decreasing at the same rate as the brightness or it is flat and both are very weird for a hypothetical megastructure.
It's not impossible mind you, but this isn't a smoking gun.
he's right and wrong at the same time. The light we're seeing coming from the star was put out 1500 years ago, which means that if it's a civilization then it's either dead or 1500 years more advanced than we're seeing it now. definitely not necessarily 1500 years more advanced than us as a civilization, but 1500 years further along.
The scientific community at large is cautiously considering artificial construction as an explanation.
This is definitely an unusual discovery. More significant to SETI than Wow! ever was.
They find weird ass stars all the time. It always turns out to be something natural that reminds us that we don't know shit about the Universe.
There's no reason to think it's aliens at all.
It would actually be incredibly creepy if it was a Dyson Sphere (even though it probably isn't)
Knowing that just after the collapase of Rome, there was an advanced species across the Galaxy using a Dyson Sphere. Knowing that there's no way to determine whether or not they are still there, or what they have been doing for the past 1500 years is creepy.
All we know is they are several thousand years more advanced than us and nothing else.
This is different. Especially with the historical data now. At the very least this will lead to a discovery of a rare new type of solar system or star like Quasars. That's the very least and it doesn't happen "all the time" at all.
I fucking hate secular dogma
Dogma is what ignorant people smugly believe about their religion to avoid any pressure of thinking for themselves but now most ignorant people (on 4chan at least) are atheists so they use science instead of religion to have something to believe already has answers to all the questions mere mortals might ever ask.
Which is totally the opposite of real science. Like do you know how badly scientists want to discover alien life? That's why they're scrambling so fast to come up with non-alien hypotheses, so they can be eliminated like the comets were just eliminated. Eliminate all other hypotheses and...
Exactly. It's an existential matter. We want to not be the only ones in the universe. The blessing is that we understand the vastness of the universe as we know it enough to realize that we are probably not alone, and seek evidence of that. God I love humanity. Even the retards. Even they have a place, making everyone else think harder. Ridicule is the best medicine for critical thought.
It's probably the Vogon constructor fleet doing some hyperspatial bypass widening.
Nothing to see here, move along.
Discovering Aliens that are LEAGUES more advanced than us wouldn't really benefit us, but hinder us... We're so far behind that in no way shape or form should we encounter them if we're not ready...
Your assuming they would have bad intentions.
I guess your playing the safety card saying we should be more advanced before making contact so they cant fuck us over.
If we make contact anytime soon it would be a gamble with us hoping they could teach us things and we could all get along rather than them enslaving/destroying/stealing from us.
Either they don't believe in aliens or they're confident they could fuck up anyone they might meet. Why else advertise their existence to everyone withing thousands of lightyears.
I dont know the exact numbers but if this star has dimmed 20% over the last 100 years that means a approximate build time for a full dyson sphere of about 500 years. If there is something out there build a dyson sphere then its already completed and they could have build three more in the time it took the first signs of dimming of this star to hit the earth.
>tfw your species doesnt have a dyson sphere.
Ive always felt that any species smart enough and advanced enough to build one of these would have a colony mentality like ants do.
Humans will never get off Earth.
Why would you say that? Chances are that as humans we'll live for millions of years perhaps even billions. If we were capable of creating a dyson sphere we would almost certainly be capable of surviving for a very long time.
>Humans will never get off Earth
Considering that we are practically guaranteed to colonize our solar system within one hundred years due to the EM drive I think that statement is hyperbole.
>build one of these would have a colony mentality like ants do
We'd never innovate nor would anybody find it rationale to look upwards to even consider space travel let alone a dyson sphere. They'd be stuck in a permanently primitive society and die out very quickly from diseases.
as in humans will become more empathetic. Technology serves no perverse for humans, Humanity will discover that true beings in this universe ascend to greatness instead of staying on this dark cold plane of existence. Nothing will last in this realm, it is in the next realm heaven where humanity will flourish.
We look up at the night sky and are slow to enter Space whereas they have a colony-mentality and are building huge megastructures around their star. Do you see the irony in that? Do you see it?!
>Considering that we are practically guaranteed to colonize our solar system within one hundred years due to the EM drive I think that statement is hyperbole.
Its not going to happen. The biggest problem with space travel is food cant be grown in zero-g and weightlessness/lower gravity wrecks the human body. If you stayed on the moon for 6 months you would probably lose about 1/3 of bone and muscle mass. Anyone that stayed for longer periods probably wouldnt be able to return, earths gravity would crush their bones.
>We'd never innovate nor would anybody find it rationale to look upwards to even consider space travel let alone a dyson sphere. They'd be stuck in a permanently primitive society and die out very quickly from diseases.
Not necessarily, if humans worked together like ants do we could be far more advanced than we are now. Imagine how much time and manpower has been lost to history in all the wars fighting each other. Then you have nations that dont have the same goals. We have wasted so much. Imagine what it would take in a logistics alone to do something like a dyson sphere. It would take one massive push from all of humanity to even begin something like this. Hell, look at the human society in Star Trek.
Because absolutely nothing will change. Finding alien life is just another scientific feel good moment that achieves nothing and serves only as fodder for popular science articles. Look at fucking Artificial Intelligence, for decades genre writers and the public has sat around wanking at the thought of "MUH SUPER INTELLIGENT CREATIVE COMPUTER!" "MUH HAL!" "MUH MARRIAGE TO COMPUTER WAIFU CAN REALS GUYS!" While actual scientists have realized that a computer that is autistically focused and has absolutely no consciousness is something with far useful than something someone is going to spend a quarter of his life trying to explain "why a yellow flower is pretty" as a concept. But that doesn't sell to the general populace, because they don't understand what intelligence without consciousness means. The public will keep yelling about where their jetpacks, flying cars, and emotional needs satisfying robotic vacuum is, while technical class are busy doing shit that actually makes progress.
Even if that progress only means our society will soon suffer from ubiquitous surveillance.
>alien bro be harvesting stars
So fucking what? Our observation abilities do not grant us contextual information in order to gain technological advances. Being able to tell the elementary makeup of the structure isn't going to magically give us the means to reverse engineer that shit and turn us into spacers. It's not going to make everyone on the globe think greener. It's not going to make everyone on the globe suddenly think deeper thoughts and crave to do altruistic acts.
Technology isn't pervasive for all life on this planet. For the small fraction that does have technology, a fraction of that fraction will make use of it, and a fraction of that fraction of that fraction won't be a complete dumbass.
"There is someone out there" is about as useful to human life as "There is a god" or "We found another species of hadal zone invertebrate"
>can't comprehend intelligence being separate from consciousness
>thinks he has the capacity to understand alien life
An ant is small and doesn't need to achieve much in order to fulfill its life, but they can and will create colonies that are a square mile in size. A fucking square mile of occupation from a conscious-less creature barely an inch in size.
>hurrr they gon be ooga booga trogs forever
Being able to think "I am. You are you and not me. I am aging. If I cross this river twice in my life, it won't be the same river as I crossed it the first time" doesn't automatically mean we can and will do great acts, nor does it form the barrier to entry for great acts. Our consciousness more often than not has lead us to commit base acts than something that should be admired.
So if one became 2 and each copied and became 4, then 8 and so on, 1024 robots would be created within 10 divisions of its initial 1. I doubt that would be seen as an extremely slow dimming of the star. Especially since the dimming we are seeing now occurred 1500 years ago, meaning whatever division of bots capable of decreasing a stars luminosity to that degree then, must have increased at least a hundred fold, by now. I'd figure the star would already be space dust by now if that were true.
Probably not that book/show, but "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman deals with a similar scenario. It follows an astronaut who becomes a space soldier to fight aliens. When they return from their mission the time dilation means that they encounter far more technologically advanced enemies and such. The guy survives a couple of long-distance missions and ends up being a relic of the past in a civilization that had aged hundreds of years in the interim.
You are idiots. Since the star is 1500 light years away, or 1480 light years rather, that means that they were already so far more advanced than us 1500 years ago.
You would be correct if what we were seeing was a planet with our current level of technology, then one could safely say they were 1500 years more advanced. But what you are looking at is a planet that potentially could be so far more advanced than us as it was 1500 years ago.
They're so distant we wouldn't even be able to tell if they were sending broadcasts, let alone receive and decode, and that's assuming they DON'T use some esoteric advanced communications technology that humans don't even into.
>The biggest problem with space travel is food cant be grown in zero-g and weightlessness/lower gravity wrecks the human body. If you stayed on the moon for 6 months you would probably lose about 1/3 of bone and muscle mass. Anyone that stayed for longer periods probably wouldnt be able to return, earths gravity would crush their bones.
So simulate gravity using centrifugal force. Honestly, all the problems with interplanetary travel and you focussed in on the easiest to solve.
Beyond a square mile. I remember reading that there was an ant colony that stretched across the entire northern coast of the Mediterranean Sea. I don't remember where I read that, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'm fairly certain I recall reading about it.
>the spin meme
>excessively large ships because a certain minimum diameter is required to hit 1g through spinning
>exceedingly complicated because continuous moving parts, all that friction and wear
>acceleration burns will fuck with those parts even more
>trying to keep these large continuously spinning fuckers sealed off from vacuum
Spoiler, interstellar travel will only be done by drones because it's just goddamn cheaper by mass and doesn't have a century, on a good day, lifespan.
Also fuck dealing with time dilation.
>be intrepid explorer setting off to distant rock of interest to stick flag on
>not even near relativistic speed, 2000 years of having your brain in a jar
>have real rickety ass made in China mini-ordinance robot waiting for you to download into it because mass budget
>seven generations later relativistic speed unlocked, crew of forty achieve foothold 900 years before you
>because of your lowtech need to make multiple course corrections to avoid some terrible space shit, this generation could not give you a lift
>they get to take all the awesome panoramic photos and selcas long before you do, they even got to have sweet ceramic quarter scale robot bodies to walk around in
>four gens relative to that crew, foothold is made on interesting rock 1500 years before you
>Earth has ubiquitous consciousness and hacks the universe through quantum tunneling and observation rewrites
>they noticed you in transit but gave no shits because you would only cause information latency and observe the universe in a manner contrary to needs of the higher mind
>interesting rock thoroughly raped of resources, leaving you a featureless diamond planet server farm owned by Google, completed 100 years before you arrive, to explore
>upon landing you are fined 90,000 universal credits for causing .0001% decrease in efficiency by smudging the surface. This credit is taxed from you through shunting your consciousness into captcha processing for the next five millennia
If they communicated with plain old radio, we could receive it - assuming their transmissions were powerful enough. When they're using a fusion sphere to power them, it's quite possible they would be.
We can and do read the radio signals emitted by stars it's not that much of a stretch to believe we could receive radio signals powered by a star.
Yay sure was a long post but you discredited your opinion from the beginning by thinking that in space things need moving parts to spin. Also I'm guessing by "acceleration burns" you also mean something stupid.
I think he thinks the interstellar medium is dense enough to cause friction similar to atmospheric reentry.
I can't be 100% certain, but I strongly believe that expanding our ability to communicate/travel/live in space will greatly benefit the Earth as a whole.
Scientific research isn't linear like the Civ games. The tech we cook up to communicate could lead to better systems on earth. The advances we make to keep us alive in space could solve food or water shortages on our own planet. Scientific research is one of the better long term bets humanity has. And, personally, I think space technology is the most vital of those areas of research.
>/x/ spends it's days saying UFO aliens visit Earth
>then when it's suggested there's an alien culture around some star /x/ is all, "No fucking way man!"
christ on a croissant, ain't you the tetchy one getting all over someone (me) for forgetting to add 'at a minimum' to the 1500 years to their post. You keep name calling but you're the fag here with the need to correct and insult.
Because /x/ cant handle the overwhelming of the real happening. They need to tell themself its nothing so it wont turn into a huge let down
Its not just returning. Its long term effects. You would lose so much muscle and bone mass going to mars that you might not be able to walk on the planet.
Here, read this. Lots of info on the effects of weightlessness has on the body.
the second we are able to terraform planets or travel reasonably fast to other earthlike planets, this hippie crap will become pointless. No more recycling and saving trees. Just use up the planet and move on. Fun fact, there are more empty (no sentient life) earth like planets in the universe than there are humans on this planet, so everyone could literally have their own planet, so stop donatig your money to african children and donate them to nasa instead, it will help everyone out more
Pretty much this.
There are couple of scenarios:
-The aliums know about us and have advanced enough tech to visit us, but they don't care about us, thus contacting them by us would be pointless, the could even become pissed and step on the annoying "ant"
-The aliums don't know about us since their technology isn't advanced enough to come here etc, in which case, why bother contacting them? they can't give us anything. Nobody wants faggy skills to build big houses from rocks in space anyway.
I don't agree with the thoughts in the post you replied to, but I also completely disagree with you.
Ignoring the problems we have planet-side will not allow us to spread through the stars and get our own, private, planet. Our fancy rockets and satellites will be cold comforts if we kill ourselves off in some way or another before we can get somewhere else.
I'm all for more space funding and more scientific research. I really am. But you can't pretend that the rest of the planet doesn't matter. What if in our search to find better ways to recycle and spread food we solve some other problem with material manufacturing in space? Or a better way to grow crops with less water or light needed? To think it is a dichotomy is a mistake.
So you are basically claiming that direct research into space related shit will yield less results than completely unrelated resarch that could MAYBE produce some space related useful shit. Ok. Suuuure buddy.
>So you're basically saying something you aren't saying?
What we need is faster ships and/or slower metabolisms. People still aren't going to hop on a space ship to eat kelp and plankton for the rest of their lives so their children's children's children's children's children might make it to a fresh earth.
Now, if things got much shittier here on our earth, people may have a different attitude about it.
>spinning ring on the space ship
That would work, but is very impractial for several reasons. A better solution would be to simply make the craft's floor from some super dense material, which is dense enough to create exactly 1g of gravity.
>if things got much shittier here on our earth, people may have a different attitude about it.
Nope, if you get to the point where it's so shitty here that "I don't want to live on this gay earth anymore, lets research space crap" then it's too late anyway. Any advancement like that takes generations of time (unless greymens crash their pizza delivery ship here allowing us to harvest their tech).
Of course I am claiming that.
But the real point I am making is that if we stop trying to fix our planet, our efforts towards space travel could be moot.
The post I replied to mentioned terraforming and speedy space travel. Both of those technologies are a long ways off. I agree that more funding is needed for space research in general if we ever want to visit the stars and spread life to other planets. But dropping our current efforts to help desalinate water more effectively, or grow crops in smaller spaces, faster and with less resources is foolish. Those sort of advances WILL help the future space travelers.
Again, this is not about one or the other being better. And I do think we should spend more on NASA and scientific research. But not all charities are worthless. Helping the people in the here and now means there is a future for the space faring people.
Come on, this is /x/. It's not a difficult concept to grasp that we can't ignore the sick and dying portions of our planet in favor of the shinier and more interesting future.
You have assumed that all of the probes are capable of replicating. In fact only those in proximity with suitable resources could. The machines could, of course, not be able to reduce the star itself to raw materials.
We're a lot closer to shit-tier several lifetime scale interstellar travel than you probably think. I think we could probably have a .1 light speed colony ship with Ethiopia level nutrition and no stasis inside of one generation.
double digits and its aliens morse code to contact us
quickly need to interpret the signal
It may not be how stars die, but since we have extremely limited long term data on how stars behave, it may be another phenomenon that is not yet apparent to us. That is far more likely than Massive Alien Structure, and anyone who believes otherwise is retarded or should be shot.
Stars typically explode or collapse yielding a relatively quick dimming. This thing is super slow, meaning it's either an astrophysical phenomenon we've never seen before or something alien.
That's exactly right. No matter what it is it's an as of yet unique phenomenon among the millions of stars at all kinds of phases in their life we've studied. Of course it's more likely that it's a natural phenomenon (which still might be of some benefit to mankind) and we have to eliminate all reasonable, testable natural theories before we even start devising tests to eliminate ETI construction (which would be some hard tests). You better believe that tons of us WANT to discover that it's ayylmaos, including lots of legit scientists. That's why they're moving so fast on testing current theories like the comet swarm theory which had been the most favored for months there and now had been disproved.
THAT'S why we're exited, is because that disapproval moves us that more toward the possibility we want.
Really soon another boring theory will get published and start circulating. All the dogmatic secularists will lose interest again but somewhere there'll be some scientists working full time to test THAT theory and after hundreds of man hours maybe he'll disapprove it and well be another step closer.
That's real science, Baby. If you can't get excited about that find a new hobby.
>All deez niggas talking shit 'bout humans colonizing da solar system when we cant even get out ov low earf orbit.
Except we may just be so in the dark about the possible causes for this phenomenon that we may not know the actual cause for hundreds of years, because it may be a result of physical laws we just are not aware of yet. In that time, if we eliminate all the theories we can think of, we may end up rushing to the faulty conclusion that it is in fact aliens, because of ignorance, because people want to have some answer, and also the hidden bias of a deeply held desire to find other life in the universe.
Think of how much we still don't know about the deep oceans right here on our own planet. We know infinitesimally less about space, yet are concocting grand theories based on extremely tiny amounts of data.
Actually, it would make sense. Changing the visual luminosity of a star as some sort of morse code would be an efficient way to send a message to other planets.
Of course it would take years to communicate but when you think about it as way to make your presence known around the galaxy it's useful.
But that's not how science works. Scientists will be very hesitant to advance serious ayylmao theories for a number of reasons, both derision among the intelligencia and they they really don't want to see those theories DISproven. Also just because it'll be really hard to conceive a testable hypotheses involving ETIs. It's not going to take hundreds of years though. Hundreds of months probably.
>they they really don't want to see those theories DISproven
I'm sure there are also scientists out there who would love to be the first to have discovered an alien race, and would love for their theories to be proven right, so they will advance them. Scientists aren't hewn out of one block of neutral, unbiased human clay, there are good and bad scientists out there, and also science is not immune to political or social pressure.
>Scientists aren't hewn out of one block of neutral, unbiased human clay, there are good and bad scientists out there, and also science is not immune to political or social pressure.
Scientists aren't but science is. Likewise science can be helped or hindered by special interests but not directly affected.
Right now, the scientists who want to prove ETIs will familiarize themselves with the system by disproving the mundane theories which, again, is what just happened and why we dreamers are bullshitting ITT
We can contact them by making a Laser Star. As I said earlier on in the thread, contacting them is dangerous and not to be taken lightly. Even Liberals/Hippies ought to know this.
>Why does it have to be a Dyson sphere? Dyson spheres were cooked up here on earth a couple decades ago.
Well obviously they wouldn't call it a Dyson Sphere, moron. But if it does the same thing as a Dyson Sphere as we describe it, then for all intents and purposes, it is a Dyson Sphere. A rose by any other name and so on.
And this is the difference between an engineer and a physicist.
An engineer sees something and uses available technology to solve the problem now.
A physicist creates something that may be used to solve a problem now or much later.
Once we beat the time factor (immortality) the next problem is resources. Why do you think there is current research going into both biological and technological ways to increase lifespan?
Why do you think there is research going into using relativity for the reverse (using energy to create mass)?
You only earn a phd in physics for coming up with entirely original research.
What could you possibly need from a caveman who only just discovered fire?
Because that's exactly what they would ask themselves when considering our pitiful existence. We'd be fucking primitives and odds are they'd just ignore us entirely.
The merciful ones would probably consider educating us.
About the less weight on the moon leading to decresed bone density or whatever because we dont need to carry as much weight, couldnt people just wear weighted clothing that brings them back to the equivilent weight back on earth, or am I a retard and missed something in science class
Weight is different on the moon in general. Weight is determined by formula F=mg. Since g on the moon is different its impractical to increase the amount of mass you wear at all times. It wont affect bone density.
We could use electromagnetism however, to create an artificial "gravity" field. And instead of wearing more mass, all you would need is material in clothing susceptible to the magnetic field.
> The merciful ones would probably consider educating us.
Well, we already get the higher frequency, universal wisdom BS spiel from our own humans. No need for a rehash of that...
Well there goes my idea of lead lined weighted moon suits
inb4 this happens to us
aliens confirmed to be Sith with Starkiller Base syphoning the star atm.
Just because something can't be interacted with doesn't mean its not important. Just having evidence of a alien civilization advanced enough to do these things means the following:
-Alien life not only exists, but so do civilizations, some much more advanced than us
-Similiar things may be closer and more common than we think, this is only the first evidence we found
-Religious fundamentalists have a further shrinking pocket of argument that we are super-special and entitled
-Such technology is possible, and knowledge of others are capable of doing it will inspire scientific research and funding into said research to a large extent, as well as a general source of inspiration of aspirations
Such a discovery would be profound. People with no imagination or ability for abstract thinking are always the first to dismiss progress out of ignorance, and an annoyance or frustration that they cannot grasp what others are talking about
That IS creepy. Jesus, like I've thought about how advanced other civs would be but reading "Knowing that just after the collapase of Rome, there was an advanced species across the Galaxy using a Dyson Sphere." actually made me unbelievably infinitesimal. Like way more so than those pictures of those suns 1000x bigger than our sun.
Spirituality had nothing to do with what I said. If you see an idiot floundering about in his own filth you can either choose to ignore it or enlighten it.
If a civilization is so advanced as to be creating this kind of machine and sees us, it's more than likely the choice they would face.
>it literally doesn't matter
>proof that intelligent life can exist outside of earth doesn't matter
>because we cant interact
i dont think you know what 'matters' means. i dont think you think,.
Why do people get so excited over things that have such a small probability of being true
I think the biggest disappointment is that a large portion of the discussion revolves around how puny & insignificant our species is and how contacting them could be utterly suicidal.
They might not even have discovered other alien civilizations. Think about it-the Europeans managed to do amazing things before discovering the Americas. But when they did, it changed the world.
Also, they killed them all. Oops.
Okay but did you even read what Schaefer said?
He himself gave more evidence as to why it wouldn't be any kind of solid structure.
You know what I think?
I think there's a black hole orbiting either incredibly closely to the star, or within its corona.
I think that as the black hole passes on our side of the star, it would drastically decrease the light output. It would also explain the increase in the decrease in brightness of the star over the last century or so.
I've been reading one of Bradley Schaefer's research papers he published in 2007 (he wrote it in 2006).
He's an expert on gamma ray bursts, supernovae, and general redshifting. He's also very proficient at understanding and interpreting data from satellites like SWIFT, SNAP, and Kepler. He's also studied the data from far older methods of recording star and supernovae information.
I trust that when he says that it's not comets, it's not comets.
I also trust that if he says it's not a megastructure, it's not a megastructure.
Unfortunately, he did say that.
I'm going to stick with my theory about black holes, and email him tomorrow to discuss it.
What were the reasons cited for him knowing it's not a megastructure? I'm inclined to believe that he has to say that to avoid professional suicide.
I've wondered if it might be a planet or large body being cannibalized by a star.
Look at the very bottom of the article, did you even read the whole thing?
He himself stated that it's not a solid structure, as it would radiate infrared light as heat from the star passed through it and warmed it.
If it were a planet large enough to cause a 20% decrease in the stars output, we'd be able to tell through spectroscopy, as we'd see a lot of color variation from elements on the surface of the planet being vaporized.
>Post no article
>Look at the bottom of the article
Yeah I dunno but black holes seem like just as much wishful sci-fi fan theory than ayylmaos, just a different type of fan. Also, the way the light blockage has been slowly and steadily increasing really seems like some kind of gradually growing system. The argument that the objects themselves would give off heat could be explained by them consisting of more efficient energy collecting material/technology than we're currently aware of but unknown technology is also kind of a deus ex machina cop out.
They just mean that according to our current understanding oh physics its impossible to make a 100% efficient solar collector so some of the energy would radiate off the objects themselves I'm no astrophysicist but I'm sure that there are some out there who could come up with reasonable hypotheses that would explain this discrepancy.
>to our current understanding
For humans sure, but for the aliums building dyson spheres is so trivial that only alium hs dropouts do it for minimum aliumwage
So they can collect with 100% efficiency
>What were the reasons cited for him knowing it's not a megastructure?
He claimed that an alien race advanced enough to build a Dyson sphere would be able to do it much faster than a century.
>They just mean that according to our current understanding oh physics its impossible to make a 100% efficient solar collector
Apart from that I think the theory is the power collected would be transmitted by means of IR wavelength, rather than having a bunch of cables tying shit up.
Hello, i'm from /sci/. Ill be monitoring this thread
Dubs or trips and it's Ai-chan and her people confirmed
>There are people that think the sun is a glass nuclear prism in a giant glass bauble that we can visit psychically on a boat and it shoots earthquakes.
I'd like to know more about this for keks.
I've been thinking about it, and although my black hole theory would be completely valid in terms of light blockage and increase in the amount of light blockage (as the black hole gains more of the star's mass, the star wouldn't itself dim very much, but the larger mass of the black hole would make it block/absorb more light over time, causing the apparent growth of the "structure")
However, there are two main problems with this theory:
1. We see no remnants of a supernova, that would have caused the black hole to form so close to that star. This means that if there is a black hole, it had to have been formed somewhere else and found its way so close to that star that it was captured.
2. If there was a black hole close or inside the corona of the star, we would see an intense wobble in the star, similar to the wobble we see in stars with planets, but on a much larger scale, depending on the mass of the black hole.
And I don't know if we do see that wobble.
In fact, I don't actually know if we've seen the remnants of a supernova anywhere around it, because I don't even know if we've been looking.
Don't recall the youtube channel or what their term for it was, but there are people that argue that the Earth is a Dyson sphere. The youtube guy declares that he has concrete evidence which consists of visions he had one summer where he was on rowing about around the crystal sun.