>>17219856 electrons and stuff, idk I forgot how my chem 105 class taught it haha mormons believe in science as much as most atheists do (at least the smart educated ones do) >>17219846 Mormons infer that god is a being from a higher dimension (if you don't believe me, read the Old Testament Institute Manual). explanation: God is a being of light Theory of relativity explains that when light travels, time stops for it In theory, beings of light would see time as just another dimension, and not linear as we see it This institute manual infers that God is possibly a being who was once like us, and has acquired a state of being much higher than us, and can therefore see time and space all at once, due to His nature of being a being of light
Also, mormons believe that if you are faithful and do all the right things, you will become like God himself and get to create your own worlds
>>17219867 yes I have been to the temple several times, and please tell me the secrets, I actually want to hear what you have to say (even though I've heard most of it) and I don't know what blood oath you're talking about, unless you were kidding >>17219862 I volunteer at a psychiatric hospital, does that count? >>17219860 it's interesting, sometimes I see it as very convenient that the religion started during the second great enlightenment, which was when a bunch of other religions started. But then I realize I can't just logically disprove the feelings I've had and experiences I've had that tell me there's something more to it
>>17219870 But if you're a woman, the best you can hope for is to marry a good mormon man, if he's good enough to become the God of his realm, you have the honor of being there for the soul purpose of birthing spirit childen. Like every fucking soul in this world was birthed out by our spirit mother. Keep your fingers crossed ladies.
>>17219870 I can tell you that there is no one ultimate God in higher dimensions. There are beings that reside on that upper level, sure, but God? No, God is something anyone is yet to properly comprehend. Egyptian deities most likely reside there and can ascend here with ease. I doubt anything with an ultimate god. Mormons only break the first layer of spirituality/reality yet there's so much more.
>>17219880 That's if you take it literally. I think people who see things very literally are pretty closed-minded in Mormon culture. All that's doctrinal about the Creation from mormonism says that God organized intelligences, and He Himself was an intelligence at one point. Yes it's also said that there is a Heavenly Mother, but that doesn't mean she pushed spirits out of a spiritual snatch. In reality we don't really know how it'll happen, and who's to say women can't create their own worlds? I guess I'm a lot more liberal than most mormons, but I don't even know if gender will be applicable in heaven (insinuating that homosexuality may not be such a bad thing after all)
But let me try to stick with what the general mormon population believes: Yes, there is a Heavenly Mother and Father, and they created us. We don't know how, but it says we were organized.
>>17219883 that's the thing though ;) is mormons believe that when we achieve eternal life and can become like him, God ascends to a higher level and achieves glory. Moses 1:39 "For Behold, this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." If you read the King Follett Discourse by Joseph Smith Jr., he talks about how God had a God before him, and there are Gods above him now. Does that kind of coincide with what you are saying? The truth is, it's a community up there, but we only really talk about God because he's the one trying to get us up there
>>17219893 yup, also the phrases that accompany them are very similar too. and the reasoning behind that is that freemasonry supposedly goes back to the Temple of Solomon, so Mormons assume that it must be something divine going back to Old Testament times that was taught, and then lost through the ages with the Diaspora or something >>17219890 yes, by choice. I was put in a situation once to have sex with a girl as a dare and her legs were spread open and everything, we even had the condoms ready, but I backed out at the last second before pulling my pants down
>>17219974 Great question, as of now I do, but I'm not like some mormons who think that when it says the lamanites are today's native americans, that it means ALL NATIVE AMERICANS came from Jerusalem. I believe it's talking about a part who came over and mingled with inhabitants already here.
As for Joseph Smith, I do think he was a prophet, in the sense that it's difficult for me to imagine how an uneducated new englander could create a book that has withstood criticism for almost 2 centuries, and has yet to be completely debunked other than inferences and roundabout conclusions. Perhaps I'm ignorant for believing in it, but my intuition tells me there's something more out there and if mormonism is doing good things for people, it can't be all bad. I've had too many "coincidences" and experiences to just discount my beliefs as the creation of some 19th century charlatan
>>17220020 mostly just an experience based one, I don't really feel a need to defend it against any arguments unless they're very empirically based.
I used to be atheist, kind of a solipsist as well, but then I had experiences that penetrated my inner most thoughts and feelings telling me that what I was hearing was true, and I felt that I had to try and believe despite what logic tells me. Even now I have doubts, but I try and put them away by remembering what I felt and the good that came out of it
>>17220048 I hate Glenn, Mitt I think is good as far as his economic policies go, other than that I don't know his platform very well. I'd much rather prefer Bernie Sanders. I think 99% of mormons love Romney, and 5 years ago 75% would have loved Glenn Beck, but I think most hate him now.
>>17220039 I didn't know if you'd want to hear them or not haha plus with them being personal I can say whatever but that doesn't mean it'll convince you. But anyway
So I used to be atheist, kind of had a grim look on our existence seeing that there was no purpose whatsoever other than what you make of it. But once when I was about 17, the then deceased ex prophet of the church was giving a talk on tv (it was like a recorded video) I then had a feeling of ice just run down my spine, and a clear voice in my head said "you know it's all true..." and then I realized that I had to clean up my act and start going to church again. As I started doing things right, I realized I was much happier, and it became easier to understand things regarding religious principles. When I served my mission, there were several "coincidences" of people who were in the right place at the right time, and needed to hear exactly what we had to say. Another experience was in my mission, there was a car of drunk drivers that tried to beat the train and got smashed by it as the train passed the crossing guard. We weren't even supposed to be there, but due to crazy circumstances that happened that day, we happened to pass by the train station. As we walked past, a woman came out of the crowd and asked us if we could come with her, and she was a member of the local mormon church there, and she said her son was in the crash but he got out of the car before the police came and ran to a friend's house. She wanted us to go there and give him a blessing, and we also told him to go to a hospital. It was a crazy coincidence, because we shouldn't have been in that time and place if things had gone normally, but we somehow found ourselves in the right place and time to comfort that woman and help her son.
>>17219870 >Mormons infer that god is a being from a higher dimension (if you don't believe me, read the Old Testament Institute Manual). >explanation: God is a being of light >Theory of relativity explains that when light travels, time stops for it >In theory, beings of light would see time as just another dimension, and not linear as we see it >This institute manual infers that God is possibly a being who was once like us, and has acquired a state of being much higher than us, and can therefore see time and space all at once, due to His nature of being a being of light
>Clear voice Could've been anything. A hallucination, you subconsciously telling yourself because you wanted it to be true, a bit of clairaudience in communication with a Mormon spirit or hearing the thoughts of another person, even a malevolent force trying to trick you. Divine intervention is not the only option here.
>As I started doing things right Basic Freudian defense mechanism of sublimation. You satisfied destructive urges in a socially acceptable way, and you were able to proceed with life feeling better. That's nothing new; I feel the same way after doing exercise. And there's nothing wrong with that, but you should also maintain a level of healthy skepticism.
>Coincidences Could be coincidences. Could be that they needed something, anything, and you provided that in your own way (while they would have accepted other things had other people been there). Could be any number of things. As for the crash, that doesn't seem very positive at all.
I'm not discounting your experience, but looking at it from different perspectives can help you.
Do you agree with all of the policies of the Mormon church? Do you support polygamy? If there are any aspects of the church which you do not support, why don't you engage in solitary practice? If you participate in the church and also don't agree with everything that the church represents, is that because you value community and comfort over pursuing religious truth, or is it because you're okay with acting hypocritically?
>>17219839 In all honesty, and I know this sounds a little unfair given how silly most religions sound objectively, but...
How do you justify being Mormon? The religion's young enough and well documented enough that the very clear and obvious con artist and scam intentions of Joseph Smith are beyond obvious. It seems to me that it would be very, very difficult to intelligently explain why you've elected to have faith in what was obviously a con.
>>17220131 I was mormon before, but I rarely went. >>17220152 I recognize this, like I said I still have my doubts, but for me I follow Occam's razor where when it's difficult to explain what has happened, the most simple explanation is the easiest to accept. I'm a psychology student so I'm interested in what happens in my mind as well.
I do support all the policies, even if I don't agree with them. I do not support polygamy however, but throughout time that is the exception to divine marriage, not the rule. I pray I am not asked to participate in some future place/time.
Solitary practice is irrelevant to mormonism, seeing that salvation is dependent on priesthood keys and authority which are used to administer the sacrament, a saving ordinance that is part of Jesus' atonement. So while I would like to study mormonism on my own, if I wish to fulfill all commandments of it, I must participate in Jesus' atonement through the sacrament.
As far as religious truth goes, I recognize that I can and never will obtain true truth in this lifetime, and I basically put my trust and faith in God, knowing that while I don't exactly agree with some policies that have been established, He has a higher purpose and greater view than I can perceive. As far as the community goes, I really can't stand the mormon community, but I continue to participate because I know it's right. >>17220166 See>>17220104
>>17220220 Not many that I know of... most of us base our faith on exactly that... Faith. And I mean this in the sincerest way possible, for the sake of argument, what evidence is there that Joseph Smith was a charlatan? I would like to know (see guys, I'm open minded) ;)
So you literally believe that you not only have to be Mormon, but must also be associated with the church in order to be divinely saved, and that all other people (including those unaware of Mormonism) are doomed to hell or some other non-ideal spiritual afterlife?
Not only must you hold their beliefs in regards to religion, but you must also follow their rules and you're unable to even stand against something that you personally know is wrong?
And am I wrong to infer that you would be willing to be in a polygamous marriage even though you don't support it, at the request of your church?
>>17220269 haha no you don't know the entire story. Mormons believe that everyone will be judged according to their knowledge. A tribesman in the savannah is not going to hell because they never heard of Jesus Christ lol
As for polygamy, I don't blindly follow the religion, I would have to get a spiritual confirmation from God through prayer and meditation. But that doesn't mean I would do it still; I'm human, I probably would say no still even if God told me to haha
>>17220302 Just ask them, they don't come back, but the troubling thing is that they switch em out every 6 months or so, so the next ones who are roaming the neighborhood won't ever know who lives where. Maybe ask them to put a note in their binder to blacklist you or something...?
Greetings OP. my girl friends family is Mormon, she is not. However she did mention the outer darkness that your faith attributes to hell. Could you elaborate on this please ? Her and I both follow a darker spiritual path and I always love hearing how others describe hell
>>17220370 It's really only a place for very few individuals, I don't think even Hitler is going to outer darkness. It's a place of basically darkness and confusion, and knowing that you are void of any light or contact with anyone. But they say to there you have to have known God personally (as in seen him) and then deny that he exists.
>>17220408 Instead of actually believing in the principles, some people are just in it because that's what is expected of them. They do it to put on airs of being a good person. But maybe I'm judging too harshly, I probably don't know them all that well.
>>17220411 Interesting, is there a concept of an opposer to the creating light of your God in your faith ? Or is that concept blasphemous in its self ? I would view the outer darkness as Sitra achra which in Kabbalism would be the other side or tree of death. Which is inhabited by beings who deny your gods supremacy.
>>17220411 And it also is not eternal as well, once every thing has returned to Ain or the primal chaos before creation then all antagonistic forms would be shed/destroyed. Of course certain conditions need to be met before that but you probably don't want to know.
>>17220422 Yes it's the same as most Christians, his name is Satan, and he was once a spiritual leader in heaven but because of his pride, he decided to do things his way. Because of his pride and lack of opportunity, he is bitter and opposes God's plan. >>17220424 No, no more girls than usual haha but girls are thirstiest for marriage now.
And as for a room, there's no room that I know of haha they just tell you you're no longer a missionary and can do the normal stuff that other people do now >>17220425 Funny how that is. If I didn't believe them I wouldn't be a part of it, so I don't know why there are fake people who participate
>>17219839 Alright, here's my question: Why does it make sense to you that Jesus... buried golden tablets in North America for some dude to find and read? And why could only he read them? No wait, nevermind, I know why. Joseph Smith had quarrels with the quakers and wanted to be justified in his polygamy and absurd ideals. Good thing we got that out of the way. Fucking nuthouse religion.
>>17220326 >Invite them in, look interested, offer them drinks of some kind containing huge amounts of laxative. Kek. My dad's step dad would do that. Except instead of laxatives, he would offer them OJ and spike it with a little vodka.
>>17219839 I live in Finland and these fuckers have come to my door twice, they always carrying their bike helmets and wear the same clothes, kinda creepy. They apparently come all the way from US to teach about mormons
>>17220811 Look it up, it's in the Old Testament Institute Manual. It's like the first chapter ish, I don't think I have it with me to check. But yes while he is made of flesh and bone, that's not to say he's not also made of light
>>17219839 I'm just going to apologize to you because when I was a kid we'd order those free Book of Mormons to Arbys, and our Southern Pentecostal vice principal s house, and always ask for representatives to be sent to speak with us, who was actually them. One summer me, and my friend sent representatives all across our town, and Mormons are so genuinely nice, and anxious to share their message they never stopped going to visit these people, who most of them were probably livid. Also, get out, it's just a huge cult man.
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