Hey guys i'd like to summon some demons but dont know how to go about it. Was wondering if anyone could help me out. Plus a summoning General thread.
I'm no where close to a master of the "art" but I've learned a few tricks and tips in my years of invoking demons (and Angels) so here are a few tips for you.
>Know who you want to contact most
You want to know what demon you most want to contact at the time. The desire to summon them, when strong, can close of channels to other demons which means your less likely to run into another demon.
>Know the demon's sigil
Knowing the sigil of your demon makes it easier to add into everyday life or actions, and is connected to the first tip. The demon I've talked to most has told me that they take great pride in summonses who can draw their sigils from memory to near (or full) perfection.
>candles are important
Demons prefer to only be summoned when candles of their colors are used. Some like grey, some like purple, some like orange. Using the right colors can be the difference between communicating or not.
>know what you want beforehand
Wether it's to get answers to questions you have, blessings, or some special ability, it's best to know what you want so if you deal with trickier demons it's harder to mislead you.
>For fucks sake, don't summon the strongest demons you find
You want to start low. The least powerful or known the demon is, the easier it is to control the conversation or close ceremonies uncontested. Don't go summoning abbadon because he seems cool.
>be careful with angels
Demons can be bad, but angels are almost always as bad. The only reason they have the "good guy" complex to such an extent is because they deal with positive energy not negative. I can explain the further but it would have to be another post.
>Chose one to build a relationship with.
Demons love when humans align their interests with theirs and try to befriend them. Making deals comes with risks of course but companionship comes with less and and provides more long term benefits. My closest demon companion isn't the most well known so he pays extra attention to his allies andfollowers
I'll start off by rephrasing what I said about Angels. Angels tend to mostly deal with positive energy but thy can sometimes use negative energy.
Since Angels are know for positive energy, it's understandable why we've made them into the swelled up beings they are. Positive energy promotes things that humans generally see as most desirable. Growth, purity, fortune, and the chance to go to "heaven". But mostly Angels deal with order. Demons who are being of chaos, understand that humans are bound to time, and therefore bound to change. For Angels they like order more than anything else.
When dealing with Angels your signing yourself up for an "all you can eat" buffet of positive energy. For a while this is great but eventually you won't want what the Angels can provide for you anymore, and your bound to slowly sever the connection. For a little while the loss of flowing positive energy will be hard to cope with but generally it will pass in anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months, but since you committed an act of change, you've disrupted the order.
Angels are inclined to punish those who disrupt order. You are no longer providing them with neutral energy, or giving them means to change the human world so they lash out. They can do anything from drain your positive energy to damage you physically and mentally.
This is almost never a problem with demons because they are being of chaos and change so they understand why humans cut off links or stop summoning. Demons are human nature where Angels are what humans want to be or to happen.
Dealing with Angels is perminant and should remain that way where as dealin with demons is often short term,but they can be long term.
And again the power you actually possess can change out comes for both entities so if you truly become a great summoner then risks of both become minimal.
(Another way to look at it, is Angels like to meddle in human affairs uninvited while demons prefer humans come to them)
Stop summoning me asshole I refuse to lower myself by cursing your imaginary ex girlfriend and making your penis grow 3 inches. I also don't want your shitty soul we own it already now stfu and stop bugging me.
Look up The Psychonauts Field Manual. Third Edition. It's an easy to read, comic book style guide to magic. COMPREHENSIVE chapter on the best way to summon and contain demons.
Link here http://bluefluke.deviantart.com/art/The-Psychonaut-Field-Manual-THIRD-PDF-EDITION-530005584
The Psychonauts Field Manual. Third Edition. It's an easy to read, comic book style guide to magic. COMPREHENSIVE chapter on the best way to summon and contain demons.
Really easy to read, no bullshit. Comes from a place of skepticism and experience.
If anything's gonna work, it's this.
Link here http://bluefluke.deviantart.com/art/The-Psychonaut-Field-Manual-THIRD-PDF-EDITION-530005584
Can you name angels without uh.. Giving them power, alerting them, or whatever the reason is why demons are sensitive to names
Are angels as touchy about their names in regards to commands? Do they obey easier?
Also do you have a resource for angel names and mythos or... Whatever you'd call it? Online or otherwise
Hi! I can definitely find you some source on Angels but it will probably be tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.
Anyways Angels do have some sensitivity to name, but you don't have to avoid them or saying them .
They really only have probables with their names being spoken of it negatively or without respect. Only speak them for clarification or when speaking positively about them.
And never try to control Angels. Where as some demons will amuse your desires and sense of control Angels are more likely to straight up tell you you're not in charge. And telling them to follow commands with this sense of... Control, will probably result in not such good things.
Question. I seriously hope you all don't actually believe this stuff, but if it were real what would be the logic of doing so? Get X but go to hell FOREVER. Common sense would say that is a shit deal.
Followup question. Why the fuck would any dipshit be a Satanist?
I have never dealt with demons.
I summon spírits. It's kind of lame because you can't do it in a city and they just give a boost un the things you want to be more talented but they just ask for something small on return by comparison.
I can inform more if someone is interested
>Get X but go to hell FOREVER
First off, only you can confine yourself to hell. No demons or Angels can kick you out of either because human spirits don't leave our plain.
Second, it only becomes a bad deal if you don't know what your doing. Which is kinda the point of this thread, to stop OP from making mistakes that would screw him over.
And to answer your final answer, it's about appeal. No religion or faith buys devout followers or really scare people into accepting it's truths. Religion is about what appeals to the person the most, how many of the persons problems it can help remedy, and how the persons peers also interact with such religions. (And family I suppose).
If you want to summon demons make sure you have good fire resistance. I would recommend finding decent armor and then getting yourself fire ring even though you can wear only 1 ring at time.
Three questions from a starting but not completely noob summoner.
Do you know any good way to practice the ability to communicate so that it works better?
What kind of spirits would you advise to start with, particularly to do above sort of practice?
And what exactly do you trade with them or command them with, assuming that you don't really want to trust the christian god?
I'll answer these to the best of my abilities.
1. To better communicate with demons the thing I would recommend most, besides constant practice, is forming a link with a demon. Links are like bonds with demons that buil slowly into mutual benefit rather than instantaneous exchange. When a good link is formed you become personally attached to that demon (or Angels if you still want to pursue that) and you'll be able to communicate with it mentally without the need of any summoning procedures or defenses. This is a good way to learn proper time and language while also helping you understand what voices in your head belong to demons or yourself.
If you're talking more about contacting them in general, than will comes in.
Demons aren't going to answer the calls of people doing it to pass time, or to just test their strength demons answer those who have the willpower to invoke them.
2. You can summon basic entities like, say an incubbus, to make sure you understand the basics. These spirits are easier to summon and manipulate.
To move forward into real demon summoning I would recommend demons who are more quiet during communication. These demons do not speak a lot so it's easier to stay focused and not be set off course. There really is no "begginers" demon to summon, it's just what seems like a good choose to you. The first demon I summoned was one that I just felt very connected to, like things he could so we're things I'd always wanted to do.
3. Trading with demons is different for everyone and for what you want to happen.
Most demons have metals or herbs their associated with and its a fairly easy way to offer something small or easy to obtain.
Neutral energy is also very enticing for demons. Since they lack neutral energy that only flows in the human world they of course long for it. The more you offer the better. Just make sure you're ready to lose the amount you offer.
Also there are animal or human offerings, but that's a bit cliche.
Oh almost forgot two things!
1. Please do not build more than 2 links at a time as its a constant exchange between you and the demon. You give away large amounts of neutral energy for late amounts of negative energy and eventually if you build to many links you run dry on neutral energy to give and that's dangerous.
2.for better chances of communication look up the demons month or time of power. These are time in the year where the demon is most powerful and active which makes it easier to get in touch. It may be hard to wait but sometimes it's worth it if you truly desire communication.
>go to olympus
>obtain one of his lightning bolts
>go to hot topic
>sacrifice beta young teenfag
>shove lightning bolt up butthole
>draw red dots on his/her cheeks
>stick in the refrigerator for 10 days
Sure! I personally prefer links over summoning because of the lower risk and gambling on the outcome.
Links are long distance friendships, to put it best, you communicate with them daily-to every so often (depending on the strength of the connection) and sometimes you exchange "gifts".
However the biggest downside for most summoners is how long it takes.
Links take time to form and even longer to get them to their maximum potential. But if you have the patience and want the mutual benefits it provides here are some tips for starting one.
>Pick a demon
This is the most important part if this will be a very long term. Don't just pick any demon, pick the demon who speaks to you most. Not literally but figuratively, which demon aligns to your interest and desires most, what demon provides gifts you would love to have, who would you be fine with knowing every secret you have.
>Summon them (optional)
Summoning. The demon you wish to be closest with is a good Kickstarter to get them aware of your presence fast. Just make sure first contact goes well.
>implement their sigil in daily life.
Carve it Ito your bed frame, write it on your notebook, make it your desktop background, if your willing to, maybe even get a tattoo of it. The more the sigil appears in your life the more likely he is to notice your dedication.
>if you meditate, meditate to him/her
Easy way to get your energy flowing to them.
These are just some easy ways to get them to recognize you as potential followers.
So what do links provide you with? Well minus some minor benefits, pretty much anything they can offer through deals.
You'll notice that the gifts you revive are restricted to an extent. If be lying if I said I knew exactly why but everyone who goes through the process seems to have this in common. It's not because the demon doesn't trust us, I believe it's more like a friend vs customer relationship. You'd let your friend crash at your house but a customer would rent it.
But links come with more benefits than summoning! Near instant communication, easy summoning, easier to obtain powers without risk (some demons will limit how much they give you without links being formed), and if you really want, you can ask to serve them in the afterlife without your soul being at the mercy of the demon purely.
Again it takes time but for some people it's a better process than summoning.
Sadly, there is one thing that will almost never come out of links alone. Links do not provide loopholes into the physical world, so therefore you won't get any friendly visits from a demon. But for most people this isn't a bad thing because granting demons physical forms takes a lot of energy and practice.
(Also once linked with demons it's best to refrain from mentioning Their names when talking about said links. Unless they give permission some demons will break links just because of this alone) fortunately my companion has given me permission on a few occasions.
I guess you could call it spirits of the nature
I´m a latino but in quechua (language I was taught how to do it) is called nuna.
For example let´s say you want more talent, good fortune, health, charisma, love, whatever(not money or superpowers), You must perform a ritual (easy one) and make contact with them.
First I will explain about the ritual
1st thing you must know is that this isn´t a guide and that I´cant help you much because is a feeling kind of thing, you can´t do it wherever you want, I mean you could but there is consequences.
If you summon spirits in a city you are doomed, the only spirits around there are terrified of humans so they will harm you or curse you.
When they curse you, you can´t go to nature again, animals will dislike weather will dislike you, everything would go wrong for you. At least that´s what I was taught. And if they harm you, you will get sick nothing serious but I will not risk it because that´s how they are here and in your country it might be different.
So to do it you must go to nature, near a river would be perfect just notice things around you and go where you feel like going, don´t fear I was told all humans were born with this so just feel it.
They will always bring you(you do not see them yet) to a place with an altar it can be a strange rock or tree trunk.
You sit next to it offer a little of food, fruits (don´t be an idiot and bring them chocolat, coke or something like that) and wait max and hour they will present (pic semi related) or send and animal for it to talk you.
If negotiations go right you will be given a task, it can be anything from planting a tree to killing something (usually foxes at least for me), one time I had to bring lots of food every weekend, they like wine btw.
But that´s what I meant, you don´t lose your soul or anything like that and even if you can´t make the task you just give them food to apologize and retire quietly.
Can you talk a bit about this positive/neutral/negative energy model? Do all demons emit negative energy?
As for the first question, it wasn't really about the effort of summoning properly, it was more about getting a clear voice in my head or such to communicate without having to shut down all my thoughts at the same time and/or risk corruption of the messages.
Without getting into much detail, here are some of the few downsides.
The demon can communicate with you at any point.
Making deals for unrestricted versions of your gifts are near impossible to convince the demon into.
Lots of negative energy is being absorbed daily. (Sometimes it will give me severe mood swings)
And the very rare occasion of closing off some demons because of who you are most aligned with.
Sure! To truly understand what each deals with think of it like this:
positive energy is the energy of order, it promotes things people in our plain desire typically (growth, beauty, enlightenment, etc) Angels will almost exclusively deal with this energy because of how bent on perfection they are.
Negative energy is the energy of chaos. It promotes basic human nature like change, selfishness, and desire. Demons will almost exclusively deal with this energy because they are beings of chaos.
Now before we move on to neutral energy I want to make sure you understand that positive and negative energies can do the same things as each other but it's just in the way it happens that's different.
Neutral energy is the energy physical beings have. Because it's untainted by the laws of negative and positive it can be swapped for either of the other ones. No one ever truly notices it without being told but your whole life your constantly giving off neutral energy, while absorbing positive or negativ energy depending on which side of the spectrum your environment and self interest pulls you towards.
Neutral energy is so valuable to demons and Angels because it can be changed and molded into things they don't have, like physical forms or more negative or positive energy.
Generally positive energy is more dangerous because it makes people desperate to be what it represents where as negative energy just tells you to embrace what you already are.
If you want an example think of the story of God creating man. That's just people longing for positive energy so much they're willing to blindly believe that they're creations of it.
Thank You so much for your insight, anon. Could you point me in the direction of a good method to summon an entity? I have my sights set on the one I want to contact and form a link with.
Alright I'm actually on a computer this time and I'm ready to help you guys out
This is a pretty personal question that involves information based on some of my links so sorry if there any vagueness.
I've used links to mainly improve my abilities in language. I know I make a lot of mistakes but I used to be a lot worse. I can almost fluently speak Greek (Typing and writing still gives me troubles).
What I've given? Well not a lot really, I mostly offer things the demons actually enjoy, but I've had an experience where a demon tried to get me to cut off my own arm for him.
Thank you! I'm trying to be as helpful as possible.
I really don't know to be honest. Maybe it has something to do with the whole virginity thing associated with angels and positive energy.
There are many ways to summon demons, but I've really only ever used one of those ways so I'll explain that one.
I don't do the big fancy circle of peoples, or the mystic "Watch me speak latin and wave incense over a bone" I simply meditate.
I like to have the sigil of whatever demon I'm about to summon in front of me, with some things they would like or I would like to offer in return. I try to keep my mind focused purely on contacting the demon and maybe even saying their incantation.
When I hear the demon's voice in my mind, or I feel any of the signs that they've joined me is when I know I can contact him.
This is the hardest part for a lot of new summoners because since only very powerful summoners can give demons physical forms for pure communication in our plain, the voices of the demons are in our minds. With some people they can instantly differentiate the voice of the demon from his/her own thoughts while most people have to give it a few tries or wait longer before they start to notice "hey I've never thought that voice before" or "Hey i never thought that".
as for physical signs, it's different for a lot of demons. Feeling hot, cold, wet etc.
So, I was raised christian, so of course, my vision is a bit muddied, so here are my questions.
Linking myself to a demon, summoning one, or working for one will not send me to hell? Will it jeapordize my future after I die?
What can I expect if I'm succesful in summoning or linking? A contract, selling my soul, or just having a connection? Can I work with/for them in this and the next life? Can I draw on their power?
Will a demon be faithful to me, as I to them? Will they lie or cheat me, or deciet me for gain, and then screw me, or is it a mutual path?
1. When going into this practice you have to understand that only you cans end yourself to hell. If you want to go to hell you will, but dealing with demons is not a one way ticket, no.
2.You can expect a lot from linking! The longer your bond goes on with a demon the more trustworthy you are to them and the more they favor your companionship. They generally don't offer contracts to linked humans but if you deal with the demon you're linked with you'll find the deals are a lot more even and beneficial for you. You can always serve a demon in the afterlife if you so chose, but it's not always the wisest. Some demons only like you when your alive, and lose interest in you once your a spirit because you're not such a well of energy. However a lot of demons do accept afterlife service or sometimes companionship because (Shocker) some demons do grow very attached to their links!
as for drawing on a demons power, for the most part you start doing that instantly when the bond is formed. But if you're talking more about great health, power over other people, great abilities, etc it depends on how generous your demon is feeling.
3. Links (like I've said before) are almost like being good friends. The demon forms links with you because it sees that you align yourself with it's interests and and values, or just because you feel fond of it. They will almost always work with you while linked because they gain as much from you as you do from them. Think about two best friends, generally they do what they can to not screw each other over, and look out for each other, provide things, etc.
However, there are some demons I would suggest being wary of linking. I'm not gonna blindly name them out because of what could happen but if you ever start forming a link and feel unsure or regretful about it sever it instantly. Demons don't take offense to this because they're beings of chaos and change. (don't confuse it with the intake of negative energy)
Thanks so much, I have one final question.
Do you have any resources that list Demons, Angels, or other entities, their sigils, and information about them? I'd like to start researching.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Oh yes! I do have a few sources, sorry I switched computers so some documents I used to have I can not find but there are some good internet sources.
They're a pretty deep end site but they have some good basic information on the demons, but again pretty extreme.
This is the lesser key of solomon. I don't like how it looks online but it's a must for beginners.
They're prretty biased towards not doing it, and I only skimmed the page but it seems decent.
This is what i use to reference sigils I'm not used to or need to double check my work. Short descriptions of each sigil and I haven't really explored the rest of the site.
Sure! I'll add my email to this post so you can message me privately! The character limit has been a problem with some of my posts.
(if not It's: EkkoAndR@gmail.com)
I'm glad you have decided to pursue a link with Ronove! He's been a very welcoming demon for me so i'd be happy to help you.
Ronove has three main things he loves to have in summoning or as offerings.
all three of those things aren't too hard to come by, and I believe he values copper over the first two a little bit more but all are very good offerings.
Ronove's time of power is in early august and he has a natural connection to leo's. He can be very generous with his gifts but he doesn't like to be demanded (Ex. Don't say "Hey I want pyrokenisis, so let's make it happen")
It didn't take me a long time to develop a link with him, but I've never met anyone else who has been linked with him so I'm not sure if that's uncommon or very common.
He's pretty easy to recognize in your head because it's a smooth male voice a lot of the time. Sometimes it's more... raspy, for lack of another term, but generally it's always been the same tone for me.
Also don't be frightened by his appearance. He does generally appears as a human man when I talk to him in dreams but I have sen his monstrous form. (His human form is a tan man with a black beard for me).
The only weird experiences I've ever had with him is when he asked me to bleed for him. I asked him what he meant and woke up with a bloody nose, to this day he doesn't tell me the direct reason behind it, but I assume it's nothing much.
Hello Ekko are you still lurking on this thread? So I possibly, maybe by mistake summoned Astaroth. Like before I sleep I try to meditate one and half an hour and do astral projection. So anyway yesterday I read all of your post and was really excited about it and decided that someday in this week I will try to make a bond with one of the demons. I really felt great with Berith because one of his days in December are my birthday and Astaroth because I just really liked her. And when I was meditating my mind constantly decided to bug me about Astaroth and her sigil and then suddenly in my mind I saw a doorway and a woman's figure shined by light from behind, so her face was hidden by shadows. I was so confused/scared/ confused by it, that like I ripped off this vision and opend my eyes and the first thought after this was. "Did I just served forcefully connection with daemon? Well, fuck" And today when I tired meditating to her I got nothing. No heavy head, no pressure on my forhead between eyes, no calmness, no nothing. So can you tell me how to apologize to her? Because I feel really bad and stupid about it and want to apologize and maybe if she let me later, connect to her.
Sounds very interesting. I've never contacted it (You called it a female, but I thought it was a male?). Well it's a good sign you made first contact, even if cut short, because that means she was willing to communicate in the first place.
As for cutting off the 'link" I wouldn't worry, it's natural to feel extreme emotions in the presence of things you don't understand fully or have never experienced before. You probably did nothing more than overload the link and give both of you a little shock. She'll probably understands the mistake and may very well just be trying to give you time to truly come to terms with what happened and let you prepare, she'll contact you when you're ready again.
(My first contact didn't go very well either)
But if you really want to apologize try meditating not on her alone (or whatever got you the contact in the first place) but also on things she likes. (a quick google search tell me Cobras, so that could be a start).
Again I wouldn't worry, give it a little bit of time and I'm sure you'll get a response.
if you feel like you're ready to go at it again and still can't reach her try contacting Berith, and try you're luck there
Thank you so much for fast reply. I was suprised to when I found out that Astaroth was female, but I think it suits her well( don't know why). Anyway, could I use the e-mail you gave the anon before, because I really interested in your words and would like to ask some more questions or if I screw up like yesterday, get help for you? Once more thanks for explaining it to me.
I have a more difficult question to ask you Ekko.
Being that one is born with certain characteristics, strengths and weaknesses that are inherent to time of birth season etc. Is is possible, through the manipulation and relationship with other entities to alter ones own energetic pattern?
An example. I am cancerian, and prone to being hyper-sensitive to emotion. It is a great benefit in regards to intuition of people but leaves me open to taking too much of others emotions on board. Could I tweak my energy pattern to strengthen this sensitivity but negate its impact on me. The process of psychological change is a slow one, and happens naturally with growth I am aware, but on a deeper level we seem solidified and unchanged.
Yes! My email is open to all for anyone who needs answers. Although I know a good bit on information, I won't be able to answer everything but I sure as hell will try until someone else can help this thread too!
This is a very complex question, and I'm afraid I don't think I'll be able to answer all of it on 4chan's post limit. Would you mind emailing me so I can see if I can explain it without being restricted to 2000 characters?
Why would anybody ever want to evoke a demon?
>get a mirror
>Draw a big gay magic circle.
>dim the lights
>hold some candles
>gaze into the mirror chanting shit and wearing a demonic sigil
>reflection-morph hallucinate a demonic face that talks to you
There. now you know 9/10ths of solomonic magic.
I'm still looking for sources because again I'm very wary of Angels so I don't keep much tabs on them. I'll give you what inhale later today, sorry should've said I was still looking earlier.
And actually I had the name echo as a nickname before hand when I was a kid, but I saw the league of legends character and even though I don't play that game I liked the spelling and design.
i got a question for you and its by no means an attempt to insult you or w/e i'm actually curious. Do you have any history of mental illness? Does anyone in your family have a history of mental illness? Because i simply cannot grasp that a sane person can actually believe they are talking to demons. Again dont take this the wrong way i'm just trying to understand your point of view.
No offense taken, I realize how this could sound to a skeptic.
No mental health runs in my family on either side so I'm pretty safe there, and as for individual mental illness there's none I'm aware of.
I do have some heart problems that run in my mothers side, but oh well.
how would you know you've sold your soul btw?
does going into a sleep like state, then seeing 3 red demons in hell and sigining something, then knowing an axe or something is going to chop your head off selling it?
i said no let me do it, and pulled this string that was given to me. i felt something, but didn't die. or am in a dream right now?
felt like the room was floating in nothing at the time, like if i opened the door it would just be white and empty. there was a piece of wood with the all seeing eye on it across from me, and it feels like that was the thing that chopped my head off
Why would you wanna summon a bunch of creatures with nothing interesting to say or do? They can't even be free from the prison God put them in for all the sins from Noah's time, they're not worth it and they're not interesting.
Get a tripcode mate, seriously.
Wrong way I think. As far as I know, angels don't really have a free will. They are just pawns, servants of God and so they are forbidden to interract with humans without a "permission".
Nope, but a lot of summoners use it and some demons enjoy it.
I do not know of any Angels that don't associate themselves with "God", and I don't think there are any in the first place.
I'm wary because they play a game I'm not ready to join. Demons and Angels should never just be mashed together in a "I know how to summon and talk to demons so let's hope right into angels" way. It starts conflicts while dealing with both sides once connections are frequently made between the two.
Depending on the link, it could be interfere, and I can almost guarantee both ends will try to convince you to cut off ties with the other.
Back to the reason I'm wary with angels though. They're a lot more, harsh as I've mentioned before. They hate it when humans cut off ties because it disrupts order, and they hate it even more when humans aren't willing to look to them above all other resources. As beings of change (not chaos like demons) and neutrality it's very hard to keep ourselves on good terms with angels, even if most humans spend most of their lives searching for a golden key to the land of positive energy and their own little slice of paradise.
In August 2014 I did a thing and nothing happened. Then a couple days later I was meditating and felt something weird. Mentally I said "is some thing there? What's your name?" then suddenly my body started moving on its own, I picked up a notebook and the thing moving me wrote out its name. Well the thing I came into contact with stuck around for a week inside me, sometimes it left, and we had a great time just being best buddies.The sensation of it possessing me was nothing I've ever felt before it was amazing and at times it's the only thing I would ever say is truly euphoric.
Then something bad happened and we had a falling out. I'm not going to talk about that part. It left temporarily and I was sent to a mental hospital. I only spent a week there either because they're super incompetent or I'm just a good liar/actor, I should have been in there for months. But while I was there it kept torturing me and all of reality was completely destroyed. Of course I was diagnosed shizophrenic.
So I come back home and I'm constantly on edge, feeling like shit from the meds and thinking that I'll have to deal with this all my life. Suddenly the thing comes back, it was gone just before I got home, and starts apologizing and shit. At this point I'm just like fuck it, whatever happens, happens.
So it stays around with me but the feeling is different like it pities me or something. And this goes on for a couple months. I've been taking my meds, changed them, fucking nothing but feeling like a 90 year old with cerebral palsy. I stop taking my meds and like 4-5 months later this thing is still around. However it feels like it's bored with me, since is stopped the meds my mood improved vastly and I stopped having a constant pain literally everywhere on my body.
At about 7-8 months since I came into contact with the thing, took antipsychotics and then stopped, it was still there. But it talked to me less, felt like it didn't want to be there but it had to, like it just needed to watch over me even at a distance. Then one day it was just gone. I really missed it. Few weeks went by and I tried something, it sort of came back briefly. I don't actually remember what was said, I don't even remember if I said good bye. And now I'm too much of a coward to try and contact it again.
I still wonder if it was real. The meds did literally nothing and it left on it's own and since then I haven't felt or heard anything inside of me that isn't me. The one thing that gets me is, my dog died after it left and that night while I was sleeping I woke up and felt this golden euphoric feeling in the pit of my chest that was the exact same thing it used to do. And I don't know if it was trying to comfort me because even feeling that I was still depressed, it was a weird mix of emotions, or if I was just caught in some sort of hard dream.
so what do you think, did i actually manage to summon something or was it all in my head? i have no idea and in the past couple weeks i feel like something is around me, like electricity in the air that comes and goes at random times of the day but is always consistently present late at night and stays until i wake up. it doesn't interact with me but "moves" if i talk to it yet it's never made an effort to talk back.
The demons that interest me the most are Phenex and Vepar.
Would it be fine to form a link with both of them or do I have to choose one?
Also, do you have any sigils for angels?
I would like to summon one
Hi Ekko sorry to bug you but I have a question
I've been told by several people about my proximity to three specific angels. I get messages from them instantly when I ask a question and they can sometimes be persistent in communicating with me (not that I mind, I appreciate the interest and company). I get the feeling that somehow it's about protecting me and I have felt very very few ill effects from them.
Earlier I was reading the links you had posted and I couldn't look away from Beleth. My mind all of a sudden felt empty and I got very uncomfortable. I asked for help and instead I felt like i was being smothered. Nothing I've ever felt before. It's been going back and forth for about 5 minutes now, feeling normal but dizzy and then feeling like I'm being smothered.
I'm not entirely sure who to talk to right now because they both seem to have something to say.
Do you maybe have some advice?
To the demonfags, is it posible to record all this?, or anyone here has graphical record of this? help would be much appreciated.
Interesting story. I doubt it's a demon for multiple reasons. For starters when demons do punish humans it's usually for short amounts of time and often just a string of bad luck or various signs that it's them. This sounds like it's completely mental, and that it's very long term. I would say maybe this is spirit (Assuming it is) that lives in our plane. Although I can't say I know for sure.
Generally speaking, demons all get along fine (despite small rivalries based on influence and personality) and forming links doesn't result in any punishment or side affects at all. And I've personally never heard of any rough waters between the two so go for it! (although I will mention that linking with 2 or more demons who are actually "friends" benefits everyone involved for various reasons) But if you feel there's any bad feelings between the two I would recommend trying to sooth issues (You won't be able to stop the bad blood trust me) and if that doesn't work cut one of them off.
Angel sigil's are hard to come by (and so is good information on angels, as I've found out in the last few days) But here are the sigil's to the 7 archangels (Which are the top dogs so if you try to contact one be careful, and realize you might not even reach them)
Not bugging me at all! I love helping you guys out.
Even though I don't mingle with Angels I'm glad you and them seem to have such good ties (They sound like links but I can't be too sure unless you tell me)
Anyways Beleth is a very powerful demon, a king of hell, very dangerous to all basic summoners such as us. I've never interacted with him because of those facts but it's obvious that your getting signals from either side of the spectrums (it could possibly be a sign from your angel companions to stay alert or be careful). I would recommend trying to stay away from him specifically, and maybe all demons, for a while because it's obviously having a negative effect on your mental state, and on the state of your energy flow.
Now that I think about it though, this sounds like it could be an intentional interference. This "Block" your feeling could be the results of the Angels trying to stop Beleth from contacting you, with the unfortunate side affect of them being blocked out as well.
I would recommend you just stay patient and allow the block to last for maybe a day. Stay away from all things beleth or demonic (This thread should be fine to lurk on) and give the entities time to sort things out or decide what needs to happen. If it's still going on for a day or it gets worse, say something (Over email if you'd like) and we'll try to find more tips for your problem.
I want to summon Caim. If I draw the sigil and get green candles how do I make contact? Do I sit in my room with the lights of closing my eyes? What am I supposed to think of? Do I pray?
As much as I hate to give you the satisfaction of knowing... yes you can. Although since I love you guys so much you should probably know it would only work if you were a master summoner and had the energy to spare by storing them (Techniques I can't even do) just to give the demon the physical form long enough to,
Troll question I know but... yes, yes you can.
I always turn my lights off. And you're just supposed to meditate, think of the demon and your desire to contact it, or things your demon represents or rules over. Also having items to offer it is always enticing
How does offering work? Does the object just eventually go away? Do you burn it?
Have you ever talked or heard about baal(or is it bael?)
Rumor has it he's planning something for me.
Any idea the motivations for it? I just meditate, I don't talk to anything or have had any experiences. A guy scryed for me.
I had a question about this over email so I'll just Copy paste it:
Offerings should never be used more than once(not the material but the object itself).
Offerings also have various ways of getting to the demon of just pleasing it.
With some demons burning their candles is enough of a "sacrafice" to promote a healthy deal, where as others desire the actual physical object.
Because everything in our world is physical (besides the pure energy) it's hard for demons to actually use or obtain what's being offering. This isn't much of a problem because it's often just the essence of energy radiating from what's being offered that's being taken by the demon (this is why freshly sacrafice living creatures [although I would almost never do it] are so powerful. It leaks pure neutral energy for the demon. It's no longer attached to a living being therefore he can take all of it without restriction, you've given the demon a living neutral entities energy,)
Sometimes however the do take the physical sacrafice. It doesn't disappear magically instantly but I've noticed when or if this happens that I'll be unable to find them ever again, even if I placed the offering on a table and left it for a few hours.
I've heard things about Bael but nothing that will help you out. Motivations are hard to guess since they know a more about the world and the people and spirits around us and it than us humans. Let's pray it's just for communication sakes. Maybe a blessing? I doubt it though
I only know a few things about Caim. He teaches divination (The form of which i do not recall), he is a demon of night and he values gold.
Because I've never communicated with him I can not give you tips on what he might sound or appear as but I'm sure you'll know when you've reached him through other signs (Pressure on the head, voice that is't yours, change in temperature, sounds you can't explain, etc).
TO best receive gifts (I'm assuming you want instantly, make a deal with him. Since gold is a very valuable metal I would think this might be hard, but maybe offering him large sums of your energy will do it?
Empowering, scary, energizing. It's a sensation that's hard to explain but that's what it makes me feel like (although with my link it feels like talking to a good friends, only with more energy attached)
Sometimes it sounds like the demon is talking right in your ear, but most times it sounds like a voice from in your head.
Hey Ekko I have a pretty strong level of telepathy, does that help when it comes to demons?
Do you wanna attempt to communicate telepathically for fun? I pick up my friends thoughts all the time and they dont even try to give me them. So if somebody tries to give me them I think it can work
There's an archive, just search thread name or for ekko
Well... Would you describe formal society as autistic? Would you wear a white suit to a funeral? I don't really know what to say
How'd you come across these?
In was reading through the list of demons you provided and felt a strange attraction to ones sign...
But I was wondering if there was a demon associated with the octopus? I've always had a strange connection with the animal.
A quick google doesn't seem to shed much light upon this
Wow this thread was an incredible read so far and I found out so much. A few things ekko, sifting through the demons and researching a few I came across two of them and was curious if you had any more general information/tips/personal experiences with them? The first is FOCALOR (aka LUCIFUGE ROFOCALE) because he is tied to my birthday (so I would feel like I would draw a stronger link) and OROBAS because of what he's all about. Thanks so much in advance!
Telepathy should help you out I would think, I've never met anyone who says they have had the ability though so I'm just making an assumption.
As for your offer I'll politely pass, Having other humans in my brain doesn't sound to appealing.
This threads archived? (I've never understood how that worked)
I can't really recall what website I found it off of but it was while I was searching for good articles on Angels (which has yet to be found)
I suppose yes, but I'm willing to bet they won't reveal every truth and fact of what basically makes up their hierarchy.
I'm sure there might be, would you give me time to search for demons with connections to octopuses?
these ones dosent work? there is no a universal true in this topic, all the sigil you get are just imaginations and fantasy of books...
Well for starters there are 72 named demons that are true (believe it or not, it won't affect me) and these are the ones I'll talk about.
And I should probably mention that 90% of the sigils in that photo aren't real and most of the "real" ones don't even apply to this.
yeah sure, im the retarded, first chart of ekko comes from the book of the right, the other posted is from the book of the left...... so you believe in this shiet? oh well, lets pray for the gods of silmarillion too LOL
They'd hate everything about America today.
Getting involved in foreign wars, having fiat currency, federal involvement in social issues, welfare programs, the federal reserve, etc.
Either or, just depends on the demon.
maybe one day haha, but until then go for all the happy vine stop want.
Starting down the path is enough for a lot actually. Even if it's not fully comited to.
Huh I'll have to start using that.
I don't see any demons that have any connections to octopuses... Ronove is being rather silent as well so I can't rely on him for this information, however there are plenty of demons who grant familiars, those demons usually have a wide range of animal connections/ sacred animals (many that often go unknown). Now usually they stick to more common, and land dwelling, animals like cats, lizards, rats and birds, I'm sure if you found the right one maybe you could conince him to grant you an octopus familiar? Just do your research about familiars before hand, I would hate if anything bad happened to it and you became a victim of retaliation.
No matter what I do I cant seem do get contact with my desired demon.
These past few days ive been having the feeling that something is going to happen soon. Like im supposed to be doing something or like an event is coming.
Ive also felt a presence a few times like I was being watched or observed, even just yesterday I was walking upstairs when I heard a noise coming from my kitchen, like something fell. I walked over to where I heard it but saw nothing. Ive also been itchy to the point it feels like im being pinched.
I might just be paranoid and it could all be noting but I really would like to be able to get some answers. Nothing is working, I got the correct colored candles, the sigil, even an offering.
Any idea why I cant make contact?
Beginning in this art is a hard thing to do. It will be hard for some and easy for others. Some will learn quickly others will take their time.
This could be a case you barely making enough contact to alert a demon you're reaching out, but not enough to start a conversation or link. There a few possibilities and a few tips I have.
>This isn't for you
Not demon summoning but how you are. Remember demons can be summoned many ways, and as I had stated earlier, I'm teaching you guys about how I summon and contact demons. There's a good chance you'd do a lot better with more ritual style summoning sir by energy storing and releasing (a very complicated and draining process, but highly effective)
>You possess less energy than most people
Not a bad thing, but a roadblock for you to overcome. This just means you'll need to spend more time growing your energy production and absorption.
>The demon is refusing contact.
This is very unlikely since you seem to be getting signs a demon has entered your life, but at the same time, for the demon to do these things to you requires a lot of energy that they're not getting from you. But I wouldn't count out the possibility the demon just Isn't interested in working with you
>You're doing something wrong
Not an accusation but it's possible. Seems like you've been pretty observant and maticulous about what you do so it's unlikely.
Now to address the accurance's, it could be the demon trying to get you to build a connection, maybe give you clues or signs to do something but the beats me.
I think you hit it spot on. I think a more complicated, specific performance would fit me better. Any suggestions on where to start and what kind of rituals might work? I have no problem spending my energy into it, as long as its not too complicated or advanced (ive heard people saying they've preformed rituals that take/last for days.)
Carve the sigil into your skin. Use blood to write sigil on ground toward hell
There's a guy i know who claims he summoned a female demon like a year ago and they talk/have sex daily.
It's really strange cause otherwise hes a completely normal dude but if i didn't know him personally id think he was schizophrenic. Maybe he is... What do you demon experts think?
Familiars are sort of like animal/ spirit guides but they're more physical interaction based. Most summoners use it to increase their magical powers, others do it for company or personal means, others have them simply as a gift from a demon who they are close to.
Familiars can fulfill many roles but, mostly it's a responsibility. Familiars are animals inhabited by lesser demons (they more or less possess empty shells of animals and assume the physical form by their governing demon and the human (since they're so low powered it easy to give them physical forms with combined help)) and given to humans as a very closely attached spirit. They're often closer than most links will ever be instantly and reflect highly on the humans personality or other things. (If you get sick they'll likely get sick, if you get angry so will they, etc) in fact this bond is so strong that usually if either or is in danger the other lashes out violently or just enough to stop whatever caused the former trouble. It's like a perfect relationship really.
But be careful, mistreating your familiar or not caring for them properly is a huge insult to the parent demon and other demons alike and can go punished.
I would suggest going to the angelfire website we've posted multiple times and navigate through it to get a better understanding of other forms on "conjuring"
Yes some rituals can last for days, but some it's just the setup process that lasts for days.
A very uncommon begginer summoning technique is energy storage. This is a process that takes a few weeks to get set up because you have to put most energy you have Into things that are sentimental to you everyday for a week or two, then once you've done this you not have fully charge relics or momentos full of neutral energy waiting to be given and offered to demons. After a few attempts many people can get enough energy stored to make it hard for a demon to even think about ignoring it.
I'm going to go ahead and assume your friend is probably not telling the truth.
Since the likely hood of him being a master summoner capable of giving demons physical forms for long enough periods to have intercourse with is almost 0, that rules out a true demon.
Now it's much more likely he's been able to summon a succubus (assuming he's doing any summoning at all) which can usually sustain physical forms by themselves, but even then daily is a stretch because of all the danger and risks that come with them. (STDs, servely low sex drive, lack of life) and the fact a succubus will almost never have send with the same human any more than 2 times unless bound to them which would probably kill it eventually.
So sorry to ask so many questions but can you give me a link to a specific set of directions? Also Do you mean I can chose an object, hold it and put my thoughts and emotions into it and after a while offer it to the demon if they eventually make contact? As a free gift or as a payment for something you want?
Somethings they say had me cringing a little bit but a lot of it would probably be very useful for you.
Loading objects with energy uses I similar prcoess to summoning. Through meditation, but instead of focusing on connections and interplane communication your sending out your energy to the object. I'd recommend three items atleast, small enough to fit in your hand if possible but if not then whatever. (Some say crystals are very good for this). When that's done you use them in ceremony as sacrafice or offerings. Make sure you clarify they can take your energy from writhin not the objects themselves as since their just conduits of energy they can be reused unlike many things. It's never a free gift of your giving something up. It's a good way to get mass amounts of energy to a demon and better the chances of better gifts or relations.
Hi, new guy here. I'm intrigued by a lot of this, and I'd like to attempt a summoning. I like what Glasya-Labola offers, but haven't looked too much into many demons. However, he's an incredibly powerful demon from what I've read, and recommended that only experienced summoners attempt to summon him. You've mentioned several times that you can increase your energy as a summoner, how do you accomplish this? Is it by starting with smaller spirits and working your way up through demons, or something else entirely?
Aight. Real quick. Yo7 can't sell your soul unless you meet a certain criteria. For starters, you kinda have to be a good person. Atleast have a foot in the door to be heading to the ball room upstairs. If you're already a piece of shit and have no or little humanity, you're kinda fucked. But, there is a loop hole. Second, you must be desperate to the point where selling your soul is literally the least of the weight, the burden loss and isolation will be with you till your death, which means you can't befriend or love anyone or they will pay for it. Third of all, they'll only tKe your soul if you abide by their propositions, and if you summon one to haggle the deal, you may as well kill yourself.
Loophole, you commit murder under their name, but it's not as simple as killing random people, it's more then likely a deal that will incorporate killing innocence but it will only apply once you've agreed to the terms and even then you have to do it even before recieving your end of the deal .
My profesional opinion is to not try and take Ny deals with demons for the simple fact that you'll get fucked over after receiving your end of the deal. Remember they have their own agenda for you once you made the deal. And even tho they're not allowex to kill you, they can torment you till you die.
You grow your energy and power as a summoner by experience and activities that increase energy growth in humans (I'm sure there is probably a chakra/energy thread on here right now you could look at for tips). So yes, the weaker the starting spirits are the better it is for you and your safety. But not everyone needs to start with such low ranked entities and can leap straight into demons of they wish (obviously not very strong ones who live to our smart humans)
So I offer the energy in the items as long as they return the gift? Your sentence has me a bit confused. Its never a free gift, so is it like an accumulative type thing? the more energy I give the better chances I have of getting better blessings or answers?
I just dont want to be offering free energy and get nothing out of it and get used like an uninformed sucker. I honestly have a hard time using with angelfire and similar websites, I like to ask questions in detail and get immediate response from someone with experience and most of the questions I have , I could find a in depth answer to. Thank you for answering my questions so fast, this means a lot to me.
I can agree with you about most of what you said about souls and why you shouldn't sell them but you lose me at the last paragraph.
Not every demon has an alternative motive (although I won't deny many of them do) and the dragged to hell and back idea that you'll get screwed out of your end or just won't like it, needs to be put to rest. Demons and Angels follow the law of deals. Breaking or going back on your word in a deal is pretty big for them and it gives humans power over them.
But I have said multiple times to the readers and anons here they need to stay alert for trickery or misleading words.
I can understand your confusion, I'll say it again in case anyone else reads this. I'm not a master summoner or demonologist so some questions I can not answer fully or without being a bit cryptic. As the thread evolves so do the questions.
I'll restate it a little and say this. It's never a free deal because you're still trading in something for it. The reason the high amounts of energy are so effective is because you're offering more energy to the demon than most others around your experience curb. Would you rather give your car to someone offering two thousand dollars or to someone offering 20 thousand dollars.
Energy is something that isn't easy to come by (neutral that is) for other entities so they won't want to pass up the deals that will give them the most energy. It's not free because your giving your won energy in large quantities to this demon. Sure it may not do anything but drain you of personality a little bit or make you tired but he's giving you something you don't have one xchange for something he can't make and wanna more of.
Again, you have to focus on what you tell him and make sure he understands it's the energy he's getting for something in return.
Indeed they do, and you are correct, they hold their end of the bargain however, they do minipulate you, the soul seller, once you've sold your soul to help speed the process of retrieving it. They whisper in your ear, they will show you illusions, they may even hurt those around you. And as for getting screwed, they won't make a deal unless they know it out weighs the pay out. For example, you sell your soul to have the love of your life. You'll get them, but you may not get alot of time with them, as i said they can harm those around you. And the love of your life may run out on you after a brief moment of being with you. And depending on how weak you are and how perfect they were and how much they ment to you, it may cause you depression and they may whisper to you how easy it would be to end the pain by simply killing yourself. But that is merely an example
>assume your friend is probably not telling the truth.
I agree with this but
>STDs, servely low sex drive, lack of life
>will almost never have send with the same human any more than 2 times unless bound to them which would probably kill it eventually.
can be prevented. Obviously I wont share my research as it took me a lot of time to do it and since most of you are inexperienced yet there is over 70% chance that you will get hurt. Basically what am I doing is immoral for the sane person - infusing a succubus with another human, the success rates are higher if succubus + woman or incubus + man but the rest work as well, havent tried with futa, leaving that for later point in my life. You have to finish it in less than a week or it wont work.
Btw Ekko have you worked with blood?
You can't necessarily get super powers, if that's what your asking. They can make you more attractive to others, without changeing your appearence. They can give you a way to get you alot of money, but ultimately you'll just be a celebrity, and unless you know how to save money and not blow it all you'll still end up broke. They can have someone fall inlove with you, but this too can be tricky because they may be too inlove to the point where it sufficates you. Or it may be that the demon gives you perfection as you may see it and the demon itself will force your loved one to leave you and that would cause you to fall to depression and possibly commit suicide.
Basically anything a human can accomplish through hard work and dedication, a demon can give you with much ease. But the price never out weighs your soul. You can literally sell your soul for a meal if you really wanted to, but once you finished it, it may have been your last meal. And you can sell your soul to be the wealthiest man on the earth, and once becoming that you may be assasinated, or fall ill. There's a lot that can happen when you make deals with demons, and another important factor is which demon you nake the deal with. The older, well in a sence, the better the deal. However, the first demons are fallen angels, and the main reason they fell was for fallowing lucifer against Jahovah's love for humans. So they can give you the wants you desire faster and better, but they are also more likely to have you slain quicker
At this point I am not sure anymore about their origin so I avoid labeling them as demons. They are closer to fairies actually but thats another story.
>How do I get one?
They have their own hierarchy so for starters its a good idea to ask lilith to send you one of her daughters.
Here's a better explanation.
A sucubus is not a demon, but a human soul who was only demonized after their soul entered hell. They are forms of deception in which one is more suseptable to fallow a demon's will. Such as you fall for them and they make you do evil deeds. A sucubus can only be with you alone, no one else will ever know or see it. And they come in whatever geneder you find pleasurable. Thsy arn't demons in the sence tht they cant make deals. All they can do is trick you into doing shit for lust.
A good example is you're super lonely, and you feel suicidel, you have to be a shitty person already by the way, not someone who is good natured of does good things. A sucubus will present itself in whatever gender you find desirable. They're job is to give you a taste of lust untill you love them, and it will be good enough for you to love them, and they'll continue this untill you do love them. Once they have your love and they know you can be minipulated into serving them for more lustful interactions they will ask you to gradually hurt people, then kill people, and eventually once you've done alot of unspeakable shit, they'll tell you to kill yourself in an attempt to be with them forever. That is their job, and it is merely a trick to ultimatly use you to reserve your place in hell. Whether you kill yourself or not they will have done their job and leave you to decide.
You can't really say that there are netrual ones. There are demons who roam earth not trying to make deals, however all have bad intentions towards other humans. As for summoning, i don't summon demons, i just naturally run into one from time to time. If you look for one, chances are you won't find them, unless you are extreemly desperate and in need of something drastic. However, if you choose to just be a part of the natrual world, they'll find tou. And they will try to be one with you for the simple fact that you are a tool of power. If a demon embodies a human who can be part of the natrual world that that human can controle the demon. Like king solomon, he made seals to capture demons as they roamed the world. He made them do things they wouldn't necessarily do.in doing this he was ultimately a master, someone equal to angels gods and demons. Tho solomon believed in the power of jahova himself he was of equal power to jahova because he was apart of the world itself. This made him a "god" in the sence that he was truelly free to believe and do as he willed. Not blindly following the words of men. They would tell Solomon that he couldn't harness the power of a demon, but he did. They told him, he couldn't exercise a demon out of a weak human, but he did. they told him he couldn't be a king, but he did. He was a man of great power knowledge and skill because he was one with the world and all living things could see this.
But to answer your question, a newer less experienced demon woud be the easiest to summon, how? I have no idea. Jahova loses soldiers everyday, because they are fed up of the favortisim he has for humans, so they fall to hell, and they are almost imidiatly put on earth to take as many souls to hell as they can.
Precisely, we are actually quite strong and an extreemly great tool. We have the ability of free will. And although demons can roam the earth they have only one job, and it is to wreak havoc. There are howevrr demons who wish to return to heaven, who whish to be graceful insted of hated and abused, some believe our souls hold the key to going back, which is true, depending on your religion and what you believe in.
These are some pretty autistic Christian interpretations desu.
Demons existed before the fake story of Solomon was ever written and every culture has Demons. However, the Demons of most cultures have nothing in common with medieval Christian portrayals of them.
Yes, they are, all god's had some sort of underearth evil. And it's not autistic. Solomon was the first to capture and manipulate demons. And i even daid he believed in Jahova which is the Christian and Hebrew god. And i used to as an example, sinoly because he is the most popular in today's society. But the are many others who joined forces with demons but ultimately fell to their power because they were blinded by grred power and wealth which made rhwm lose focus in controling the demon. However Solomon was the only one who actaully sealed the demons and never was possessed because of it. Which is why he died of old age insted of suicide or some sort of accident.
will they be mad if you try and summon them while youre stoned or will it not work cause drugs act as a barrier and its harder for them to reach you and feel your energy because youre under influence???
Actually. in the Hebrew jibberish stories, Solomon fell in love with his shiksa bride, started making tributes to Pagan gods and ended up being insane.
I don't recall which text it was.
Btw, you saying the story is fake is like christians saying Muhammed isn't a profit. Or Ra being a false god. Even tho there are cultures throught the world portraying similarly named gods that looked like Ra in India, Chile, Mexico, and indonisia
Haha, he never worshiped the pagan gods but he did study pagan rituals, they were more elemental then spiritual and in turned helped him capture and seal and exercise more demons
I'm pretty sure he meant that the keys of solomon were written by an italian dude who lived during the 15th century and don't actually have much to do with the biblical king solomon
I know my shit and the bible disagrees with you. When Solomon was old, he turned to other gods, built monuments to them and gave them offerings.
1 kings 11, 5 - 8
>For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
>And Solomon did evil in the sight of the Lord, and went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father.
>Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
>And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.
So all your info comes from the bible. That's cool, now go read the Quran, the 7 books of alchemy, the history books at your local free mason guild, some books on not only European religions, faiths, and practices, but also north african, eastern asian, north asian, south asian and central asian cultures. Solomon was the fuckin marco polo of demonology, and was recorded in sevral texts besides the bible. Christianity only down talked him to make it seem as if he didn't do the krazy things he did. They don't want humans to have power over creatures that most humans cant controle. And also if you actually read what i said i am stating that the people who can controle demons have a power equal to gods, because they are one with the earth not one with religion.
>they were more elemental then spiritual
>and in turned helped him
>seal and exercise more demons
What's up with people being unable to speak English on /x/ nowadays. Are you people actually just autistic?
Learn to read. My post was purely about Solomon and not "north african, eastern asian, north asian, south asian and central asian cultures." Kings is the most extensive text about Solomon and the Quran is largely derived from Hebrew texts in regards to shit like Solomon.
Stop being autistic and realize that Solomon is not a historical figure and was probably invented when the jews learned magic in Babylon as some shitty jewish allegory.
Yes, there appears to be an influx of non-English autists on /x/ at the moment.
Lol, i ain't fallen for that shit nigga
Only people that believe in hell worry about going there. Plenty of people believe in spirits without believing in christianity.
Follow up: There are essentially three kinds of Satanists;
1) atheists who consider Satan a symbol of the self, against herd conformity
2) people who consider Satan to be some type of pre-christian pagan god who got "demonized" (literally!) by christianity
3) "christian" believers that think Satan will be able to overthrow god
>any type of info on summoning is welcome
I would suggest you look into pic related. Good reconstruction of pagan spirit arts using an Irish Celtic paradigm but easily adaptable to other pagan traditions also.
Hello Ekko, you still here?
I don't believe in demons angels or any of this but I read all the thread and I started to think that all of this is too much for roleplaying.
I don't want to argue, Im just curious, can you ask me some questions?
Have you got any prove of demons existence?
If not, why not taking some evidence?
If demons are real, how in all the history of humanity is there no scientific study about what they are made, their links, all the energies that you said we have? B example, how is possible that you can't messure the neutral energy in a human when we can study every energy interaction (quimical, electric, potencial...) in our body and brain?
With all the respect, how do you know that demons are not just in your mind?
Focusing and strongly believing in somethin can cause allucinations.
And if demons exists, how are they are moraly?, you talk like they can be your friends, aren't they trying allways to cheat and scum you to ruin your life and take advantage of you? Are there good demons?
Apparently I've missed a lot
Physical proof is hard to come by or prove to anyone who's skeptic because they aren't physical, but they affect stuff physically. So physically the best evidence would be random scratches in the night, mysterious animals appearing for people, unexplained objects being moved (Very unreliable), changes in temperature, and sometimes decay of plant life without probably cause.
Non physical would be anything from migraines, to voices, to sounds. Feelings of somethings presence, supernatural abilities, improvements of basic skills, enemies becoming close friends.
If you're asking me for proof, i can't provide anything this instant but if you have something simple maybe? I mean so far my best evidence are the people I talk to about this who've began to experience demons.
>How have we not proven them scientifically.
Well for starters science is limited to neutral energy, energy that only forms in our plane. Since our energy/ the energy of this plane makes up most of the other "energies" we are observing it, just not connecting it to the father energy. As for measuring the other two forms, that's more complicated and I'm not sure why we can't seem to measure it besides for our senses and religion (Some people are talking about dark matter being loose negative energy in our plane but I don't have a view on that)
And like I said you are measuring it all the time.
>Are you imagining them?
For some people I'm sure they can be hallucinating them but for many people that's very unlikely. For a human to conceive totally new mental personalities or imaginary friends to that extent they usually need to be very young or suffer trauma (From what I've read) and since a lot of beginners don't have the desires as more experienced people and still experience it seems to go against that second part.
>If demons exist morals
They have many different morals. Some demons want to fuck you over, some don't care, some want to help.
It really just depends on how they want to play the game or how you treat them. Again laws of deals that we cant fully comprehend for some reason. Screwing you over really only happens if your dumb enough not to solidify rules or close loopholes in the deal itself. Plus if they always wanted to fuck us over they wouldn't be willing to link (something very personal).
Plus the only difference between Angels and Demons is what they focus on and what they are made of. So by that logic angels should be just as dangerous. Yet most religions hold them to great value. And good and bad are just opinions besed on individuals. Whatever you think they are, that what they are to you.
I've already explained this but sure so I'll make it short.
Offer it to a demon.
>Demon doesn't accept
>demon does accept
Leave it where it was when you offered it for a while
If it's still where you left it, throw it away, sell it, or keep it around but just don't offer it as another offering.
Assuming this is a real question: If you're an author and develop these characters on your own than shouldn't you be able to tell them apart and notice what you didn't?
Anyways, if you have a truly active imagination that just means it'll be harder to understand what's new. Maybe go for a demon who is the complete opposite of you? That way when you hear something you'd never think or say or sound like you could spot it?
Not when my characters are 70% of time smug little shits, that can change any second like camelon. It really fun process to watch, but sometimes pain in the ass.
But how can I choose such demon if I can't find any good site that would describe their characteristics?
Okay, so I consider myself a pretty alright dude. I've been described as light-hearted, easy to get along with, and kind or caring. I really like to hope and look for the best in others. I will go WAY out of my own way to create a win-win situation.
I would say I have a hard time understanding how someone goes out of their way to cause misfortune to others, and that if I had it my way everything would be hunky-dory with butterflies and rainbows all the time.
Now, is this a benefit or a hindrance to me in the arena of summoning?
Will my penchant for the good and right attract the kind of mutually beneficial entity I'm looking for?
Or, does my naivety and inexperience attract someone who can really do some damage?
I'm sure my own experiences will vary but I'd love to hear opinions from some other anons who are more optimistic-minded.
The Lesser Key says that certain demons provide good familiars. What are the familiars good for? Once you make contact with a demon, will they usually make it easier for you to contact them again? After establishing a relationship with a demon, must you always go through the same ritual process in order to summon them?
Hi Ekko I hope you're still here, I got a question and will be really grateful if you can answer me:
Aren't you going to Hell to suffer eternally if you have relations (links, summoning, etc) with demons?
Have you read The Bible? Demons are evil, and whether or not they help you or favour you in this life, you will be etternally punished by God...
Now, I'm aware that you've stated that you believe one can only go to Hell if he WANTS TO.
Are you kidding?
Please, can you give me a source (book, manual, article, name of a religion...) or an explanation about your conception of Heaven and Hell, angels and demons, Christianity, etc??
Thank you very much in advance, Ekko.
OK listen up here you unexperienced people, you should NEVER but i mean NEVER summon demons, ghosts and all stuff that is unnatural, don't listen to anyone talking to you about demons/ghosts that are like weak and don't need much in return, no, trust me, all demons/ghosts are evil bastards, this might be long to read, but bear with me, one of my female friends wanted to have some fun and summon a demon, so she got with one of her friends and went to the deep web and found some rituals that summons all the evil things at once, like demons and ghosts and all evil spirits, so they went and did the ritual and shit went down, she started to hear voices in her head, couldn't sleep for nights, she started getting cuts and bruises on her body, and she thought that if she leaves the house that she can release those evil spirits, but things were worse, all the evil spirits that were outside attacked her, her life was basicially ruined, she went crazy, tried to kill herself a couple of times, and for what? just some little fun, i'm telling you people, there's no answer or solution in demon of ghost summons, they won't help you, just haunt you forever, don't do it
I want sources too.
But til now u got this:
This sounds coherent with all the rest of the thread. You're aware that your proposition is unable to scare anybody, aren't you?
But maybe that's not the idea.
Your friend was an idiot for summoning so much shit at once, this guy will tell you (ekko). Period.
Are you a Christian btw?
Being a Christian is my reason to evade playing with this kind of shit.
Well i grew up in a Christian familiy, i was never the religious person, i was always an apathist, still am, not trying to scare anyone just want to warn others, because you can easily ruin your life if you play with stuff you don't know, or think it's not real, things that happened to her change the way i looked at life, because i was an atheist before that, claiming stuff like that doesn't exist, but now i question everything, not that i believe in God or Satan, but i also don't say they don't exist, it's just not something you should play with if you don't have experience
i don't really know who she summoned
or what, or how many
but i know that she summoned a bunch of them and cant get rid of them.
she is in constant emotinal and physical pain, a couple of days ago i went to her place, and the front door was unlocked, she lifes alone, every door was locked in the house, besides her room, went in her room she was in a corner crying and all the stuff in room were torn apart and just all over place, doors scratched, walls also, everything was a mess, i asked her if she wants to come at my place for awhile but she denied, i told her to go ask for professional help, she told me even if she did no one would believe her and just put her in a sanitorium or an insane asylum.
>i told her to go ask for professional help
kek. Since when do psychiatrists banish Demons?
Ask her who she summoned, because it matters. If she pissed off Set or Andras or someone, it's a much bigger deal than just some shadow people.
i know they don't, but someone might help her with that, with depression and everyhitng. The thing is she doesn't know who she summoned, she didn't really believed in that, and didn't care about names
>with depression and everyhitng.
She's depressed because spirits are eating her Soul, not because she has a serotonin deficiency or needs someone to talk to.
Tell her to learn to banish them before she kills herself, which she probably will eventually if things don't change.
>she's depressed because spirits are eating her Soul, not because she has a serotonin deficiency
You don't realise that spirits eating your soul would cause a serotonin deficiency.
Even accepting the existance of the 'spiritual', it should necessarily work physiologically, materialistically, if you know what I mean... NEVER against nature...
Yo Ekko, thanks for all the posts so far, new lurker here. I had to do this post because I'm freaking out slightly. Now this might be all just a coincidence but a few years back I was browsing through a list of demon names, and I came upon Astaroth, which immediately seemed pleasant to me over others. I used the name here and there, and today I learned that all demons have their own spesific time of the year when they are the most effective or something, you know. Well, looks like my birthday is right in middle of Astaroth's "time" so, could this mean anything?
>No mental health runs in my family on either side
top kek, i would want to know more about this too but for knowledge purposes (i don't want to mess with the supernatural anyway)
Sorry if you really believe this, but after read it looks all false:
Every demon has an assigned planet, if demons are in another dimension why they would choose always planets of the Solar System? It's clearly that all of this theories have been created from the human point of view.
Same happens with the zodiac position or tarot card, do you think that if demons were real, they would choose their favourite constellations from the human point of view?, any of them will choose a constellation of stars of other galaxies viewed from another planets? Probably some of them wouldn't even like astrology, do you think all of them would care about a human divination card game? Probably some of them wouldn't care about human culture, probably they would have access to other alien races.
The population of demons is another prove that this is made from a human point of view. When all this texts were written, the society was 100% ruled by men, thats why there are too many less female demons than male, like happens in most of classic novels. If this were real, the percentage of male/female would be equilibrated as use to be in humans or other species (maybe the chance of being born male or female can be not 50%/50%, so more men than women wouldn't be impossible, but again, it looks like all of this was invented by humans).
The phisical characteristics of demons, bodies, eyes, lips, hair, wings. All of this human and animal characteristics are a consequence of the species evolution under the Earth conditions. Do you think that life of another dimension would have the same forms of humans and animals? maybe their phisical forms wouldn't be even in 3 space dimensions. (again, it can be, but is one possibilitie in a million, the more simple explanation is this is the result of human imagination).
Same happens with colors, looks like demons like candles of one color or another, the colors are just human eye interpretations of the light spectrum, and again, what a coincidence that creatures of another dimention had the same perception human
People are a microcosm of the Solar system and thus the chakras are planets and vice versa. Colors are universal as well and tied to the chakras/planets etc. So is just about everything else.
Just about every culture says that we were literally created by the Gods and in many cultures we actually interbred with them. No fucking wonder we look alike.
Calm down child, you look like you don't have a clue of what I'm talking but you dare to call me autistic. This is how human eye works: http://light-measurement.com/spectral-sensitivity-of-eye/ there are frecuences that we can't see, no, the colors aren't universal, another species with another optic system could see more or less colors or not perceiving the light the same way as we do. Colors are an animal concept. Think of a plant, do you think it can "see" colors? Think of another life form developed in a completely different system as ours, do you think it will see colors? The same colors as we? And now think about a life form of another dimension.
About the Gods and humans look alike, if I have to explain to you in 2016 how humans were "created", how many evidences of the evolution we have and how impossible is that "Gods" put as here exactly as we are now, we have nothing to argue, you are a lost cause.
>not knowing that proving the unexistance of God, demons and angels is impossible
>trying to use a hidden ad-hominem with false logic fallacy
kill yourself kid, seriously.
you got no idea.
maybe demons concentrate on earth simply because life is concentrated on earth
it's the same shit as the free market, if you see shit goes down on south korea because so many shit happens, everybody wants to be part of south korea or be with south koreans
We can't prove anything at all, but we can search evidence to know what is the most probable theory. If I say that there is an invisible giant fish that nobody can see or feel in any way following me, you can't prove it, but that is not a reasonable cause to believe it.
And I'm not proving that gods, angels or demons don't exist, I'm remarking that this versions of demons smells like fairy tails.
>the most probable theory
Probability means nothing. This is religion/philosophy/spirituality, not science. Science is very limited, young padawan.
You really don't realise how your mind works when you make this kind of judgement, right? You have FAITH in science. This whole modern world has that faith. But science cannot provide what religion can. And science, from a radical, philosophical perspective, is not higher than religion in any sense of the word.
I don't believe in demons, angels and God, btw. But I don't call stupid those who do. And yep, White Knight reporting.
For those of you concerned about the evil, manipulative, or deceptive nature of demons:
You DO realize that the majority of European countries which adopted Christianity did so out of necessity to maintain trade with Christian nations who would not trade with pagan nations, right? The vast majority of the things which you categorize as "demons" are, in fact, new labels for traditional pagan gods or spirits, most of which are benevolent in nature. For example, as Islam spread through West Africa, Central Asia, and Indonesia, some local deities did not disappear but were transformed into demons within a universe governed by the God of Islam.
Most of the things you're referring to are simply Abrahamic retcons to much older spiritual forces.
His office is to cause Women to love Men, and to bring them together in love.
I'm not Ekko so I can't answer for his opinions or sources.
>Aren't you going to hell
This would suggest that Christianity is absolutely true as a religion. Demons or not, I don't see any good reason to believe this. As I previously stated, demons are mostly renamed/rebranded pagan gods or spirits, most of which are benevolent.
>Have you read the bible
I have, personally, and I wasn't convinced of any authenticity on its part. Practicing the prayers and rituals of the Abrahamic faiths (haven't tried any Islamic rituals yet) resulted in absolutely nothing for me, while I have had some success with goetia and chaos magick. So I'd say that Liber Null is a more important book than the Bible, and it's not even one of the more tricky or difficult magick paths to follow.
It is an accepted historical fact that demons of the Abrahamic faiths are references to pagan gods. Just about any serious historical text you can find (which isn't biased towards Abrahamic faiths) will confirm this. If not, a quick Google search will show up phrases like "When the pagan gods became demons", etc.
it's magic, it just works. once summoned, the demons are matched into the western astrology divinatory system. this might be because the demons are contacting earth and it wouldn't be a good divinatory system if it didn't divine alien beings or it might be the closest fit once converted from their system.
no one thinks demons have the same nature and senses as humans. demons are astral entities, they are made of subtle astral matter with negative polarity.
these sources are highly biased anti-solomonic propaganda. afaik hell isn't even mentioned in the OT, it was added later, and in some versions you can leave it once your soul is cleansed.
I use to respect different ways of thinking too, I insulted this anon because he answers aggressively. I don't agree that probability means nothing because "have a high probability" is the closest to "be sure" that you are going to find on everything.
There is no faith in science, you only believe something if you have any evidence, and if you have any proof against an instaured theory, you stop believing that.
Science is limited? Yes, but with science you are sure that at last you are not believing a complete invention.
And, when I talk in a scientific way, I'm not rejecting things that science don't study right now. I'm not denying at all the existence of entities of other dimensions, but I think the best way to learn what they are (if they are real) is the scientific method.
Faith is the greatest liar, it's just believing without proofs, for me, thats a big mistake if you want to come to the truth. Even when sometimes I wanted to believe.
In human history there have been many beliefs based in faith which was proved to be false through the years.
Many beliefs commonly accepted today would be source of laughter in 1000 years.
About 5 days ago I bought some colored candles and attempted to summon a demon Ive been trying to contact. The 'ritual' was pretty anticlimactic but ever since then thing have been happening in my house around me and only me. At first it was small things like the sound the plumbing and pipes or creaks in my walls. After that I heard something fall in the other room while I was leaving. Yesterday my bathroom light flickered and today my shower curtain rustled when I walked into my bathroom and this morning when I woke up my bathroom fan was on and the curtain was moved over to the other side where I don't keep it.
I also have felt itchy on my face, my arm has felt hyper-sensitive and I sometimes feel like im being watched. But I dont feel scared, I dont feel like its trying to hurt or frighten me.
Whats going on /x/?
Maybe he just want to warn you about his presence. Not sure but I hope Ekko will answer you.
I got a issue too. I don't know if it's the better thread for that, but I try.
I didn't think I summonned something or what, but these times I got exams and I medidate to be sure to sleep, and my "fixation" is a Anubis' statue I got since many years. I didn't use candles. Three days after, in my room, door and window closed, it's like a light cold breeze get through my hair and pushed some paper. There's some cracks sound in the wall after that, during three days.
Last night, during the meditation, I was questionning in my head about a friend, and just after that, I felt like a cold point in the middle of my forehead, like a cold finger which touched it! I was really confused and I couldn't sleep.
Today, nothing happened, but during afternoon I feel like someone was in my room. No monster under the bed, but like a human being or something. A little scary, but I think it don't have a bad intention.
And about a mental disorder, my family and I don't have any.
My exams are almost finished, so I will have time to see what's going on.
I don't know what to do now, but I'm sure it's not my imagination. If someone know a manner to find out who is it and communicate with...
>I don't agree that probability means nothing because "have a high probability" is the closest to "be sure" that you are going to find on everything.
Cogito ergo sum.
If a then b, if b then c, if a then c.
The realm of logic (a subfield of philosophy) is undeniable, absolute truth. So you're wrong, man.
>There is no faith in science
You must have faith in science, this is undeniable. Science, while concerned with what is useful, does not rely on proofs or absolutes, rather probabilities. You must have faith in those probabilities for science to work. You must also believe that sensory information is correct. Without taking the stance of empiricism, science is absolutely meaningless. So you're wrong, man.
>I think the best way to learn what they are (if they are real) is the scientific method.
A method which discounts personal experience will do no good in a field entirely centered on personal experience.
>Faith, believing without proofs
Read some really basic philosophy like Descartes' meditations, which provides good reason for not trusting sensory information. From there empiricism falls apart, as does science.
Philosophy is superior to science.
Philosophers attempt to understand the world through logical deduction, leading to absolute truths. Scientists attempt to understand the world through experimentation and observation, leading to only probabilities. Science should be left in the dust, if anything; it fails at what it attempts, every time, due to the nature of the scientific method itself.
I like your post but it deserve long answers and Im about to sleep, I'll post tomorrow
Why? Science is based in a way of thinking but why not give a chance to other methods?
Philosophy is one of a few ways to gain further understanding about flaws in ourselves or others. It deserves a place in this world. Without philosophies, there would be little meaning to the word "ethical"
But still, so much energy wasted...
You cannot enlighten every idiot in this world.
I didnt answer him cause this never ends. He's one of many, and once the conversation arrives to a certain point where I am sure that its just another idiot, I stop fighting.
You seem to be an interesting dude, dont waste your energy. Have a good day.
Some demons have actually been able to manifest themselves as memes and spread on the internet. Pic related.
I'm sure every big meme is actually based on a demon on some form. This shit spreads like Magic, Sad frog could be some low ranking demon for all we know and That feel guy could be some Demon as well.
Owls are adorbs.
And I think we can all agree that Vishnu (Hare Krishna) is the millhouse of memegods.
Have you ever encountered a barn owl chick? Pretty sure they're native to Silent Hill.
On the other hand, goats are traditionally associated with satanic imagery and goat kids are the cutest things ever.
Exactly, IRL demons are morons and pricks. "Hey guys let's try to fight the omnipotent, best possible being".
Its just narcissism. Would you want to speak to Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy?
Evil is all the same. Its not deep or interesting, anything they do is just to get more narcissistic supply.
Not here to answer questions, because I'll be busy for the next few days, I'm very sorry. (Although it does seem there are more people helping out so that's good)
But I have a question, are we planning to make this a constant thread? (Like what the people on /div/ do)
Just wondering because it doesn't look like this thread has much time left.
yeah and us that believe that God and Satan are both Gods that are trolling humanity by playing this soul taking game, while at the end both Heaven and Hell are the same, just different places for different types of people. No eternal fire and other bullshit...
Ekko we admire you, schizofrenic fuck.
You're da best.
I think we should.
Also can anyone recommend some books to read on lore of pagan demons/gods who they are etc? Would like to read up on it before I try anything. I am a skeptic btw but open to trying.