Ask a Christian anything
>inb4 spaghetti monster
>inb4 religion jokes in general
The point of this is to clear up misconceptions about God, the Bible, Christianity in general and to answer sincere questions that non-believers may have regarding it. I will answer as well as I can, the length of answers may be long so, patience. I'm not here for debate so much as I am discussing and merely answering questions, so try not to string it along after I answer a question fully. If you really want a debate then choose a topic of debate and email me at firstname.lastname@example.org
>inb4 OP thinks he's a special snowflake for answering questions as a Christian.
It's not even like that.
I can find people who are far more qualified and educated that "clear up misconceptions" just fine. You're not a special snowflake.
You're not that important and you will not explain anything we haven't heard before. You just want an excuse to tout your bullshit.
We all know this is going to eventually just lead to bible thumping. So do us all a favor and fuck off.
Have a nice day.
If god unconditionally loves us, why would he kill so many innocent people and send them to hell for eternity?
How can creationists say the world is only 6000 years old?
Why do religious doomsdayists think the world is coming to an end when the new translation screwed up translating aeon to world? Why do you not realize the Jesus story is just a retelling of astronomical events whom ancient peoples decided to anthropomorphize based on the pagan zodiac calendar?
How do you justify blindly helping the NWO agenda because of your false patriotism and sheep-like qualities in response to an obviously biased media?
I can understand why you say that. In a world where Christianity is supposedly 2 billion strong and not even 3/4 of them know what they're talking about or even practice what they preach. Bible thumping would imply that I'm trying to "convert" you, which I'm not. So try me.
God doesn't kill innocent people, he also doesn't send them them to hell. Is anyone human being that has attained an understanding of their world around them and lost their innocence, really innocent? What does innocent even mean? That someone hasn't committed a crime worthy of imprisonment? If someone downloads music from the internet without paying for it, which is stealing no matter how you rationalize it, but inevitably don't get caught, is that person innocent? What if he does get caught, fined and gets a mark on his record? He isn't innocent. Innocent is a broad term, so please specify.
As for new earth theory, this one really puzzles me, the Earth may be recorded to be 6000 years, but if a day to God is so long, how long did the creation of the earth take? This isn't a simple question to answer, so if you would like to email me concerning this, do so.
These doomsayers don't read what the Bible says, which clearly states that no one knows the day nor the hour that the world will come to an end. They are ignorant.
Concerning the Jesus story, please specify, as I have an idea of what you're talking about, but not enough information to answer fully.
For the last part, are you implying that I agree with whatever the government is doing for the sake of patriotism? You are making a lot of assumptions about me there.
>The point of this is to clear up misconceptions about God, the Bible, Christianity in general
Ok. Start with these.
This isn't your personal soapbox you narcissistic cunt.
Daily reminder Christianity is an anti human death cult that teaches its followers to hate the world and life itself.
If a person has read the bible multiple times and is familiar with it, yet believes that it is incorrect, will this person burn in a lake of fire?
and if so, what is the exact mechanism by which a person is forced into eternal torture for being wrong even though they are using their brain to it's fullest capacity as given by god?
>Lord of Heaven and Earth
>Decapitated and left to rot
>Wearing thistle crown
Nigger do you know a single fact about biology?
There is this misconception that Christians don't stone people or refuse to eat pork and all of that other stuff in the Old Testament because they like to cherry pick Bible verses to suit their comfortable lifestyle. These laws are in accordance to the old covenant. After Jesus died on the cross, none of those laws are necessary because of the atonement for sin that Jesus made for mankind. Many of the laws differ in their reasoning, for example, stoning was for more serious crimes to the Jews, while the abstinence from pork was simply because pork was definitely not good for you at that time. The Jews also forbade using different materials for clothing as to not mimic the pagans and so forth. Slavery for the Jews and slavery for other parts of the world widely differed. Slaves had a contract with their masters for 7 years, then they could go free, many slaves chose to stay with their masters because they were often treated well, had a place to sleep and eat, and drink, which during this time, was a good deal.
Is the idea of God not paranormal to you?
Do you know what is meant by the world in biblical terms? Also, why do you equate the world with life? Christianity is very pro human if anything else and Jesus came to teach humanity how to love. He said to his followers "A new commandment I give you, love God, and love your neighbor as yourself."
Biology and Christianity don't mix. Neither does logic.
>Do you know what is meant by the world in biblical terms?
I love how you can just change meanings on a dime when it fits your agenda.
>Christianity is very pro human
HA! Right. Which is why basic human nature is "sin".
>it's the unchangeable word of God
Excuse me, but don't you read a translation?
>I love how you can just change meanings on a dime when it fits your agenda.
You are saying "the world" as if you already know what is being talked about. I never changed the meaning. I never even gave one.
When the Bible talks about the world, it is talking about desires that are ungodly. Greed, unhealthy indulgence, promiscuous sex, deceit, infighting, intoxication, these are things of the world that the Bible says to hate.
If it's nothing you haven't heard before, then why don't you correct your misconceptions about Christianity? They're wrong.
Getting back to you.
>When the Bible talks about the world, it is talking about desires that are ungodly.
Once again changing meanings when it suits you.
You people are so full of utter shit. Seriously.
>why don't you correct your misconceptions about Christianity? They're wrong.
You mean "anyone who disagrees with me is wrong".
The law is no longer relavent to those who are no longer under it; the jews still are, because the choose it. Then those who are not under it conform to the laws of nature and are judged accordingly, ie. Their conscious judges them, otherwise known as your heart. Christians are forgiven for their transgressions, and are thus not under the law. Their sins are forgiven. I also theorize that the persona or mask is thrown into sheol, while the heart of the man who is saved is infused with god, and then allowed to abide with god, becomming a new creation. The new creation is a gradual process which begins at the moment of salvation and continues paat death and up until the new creation after the apocalypse.
The persona is the old creation under the flesh, and experiences the second death, otherwise known as hell. Did I go wrong anywhere? Also paul says when you face your maker you, "are seen as you are being seen." Which i believe to be a reference to god judging you through the eyes of your own heart.
You SERIOUSLY still believe this shit in 2015? Fucking talking snakes and magical fruits?
Did your parents not spank you as a child? Don't know how torture was gotten out of this.
Yes, those who have chosen not to receive the eternal life that they are being given will pay the price of sin.
The Sabbath was a very holy day for the Jews, no work was to be done. It was a day for rest. Such is the price for sin. Jesus says this in Matthew 12:11 (NLT) And he answered, "If you had a sheep that fell into a well on the Sabbath, wouldn't you work to pull it out? Of course you would.
Yes, I agree, smacking your kid upside the head for acting stupid is generally a good rule of thumb.
It is talking about killing your own parent in cold blood. The price for murder in Jewish law is death.
This translation says "removed" not moved. Other translations do in fact say "moved" but the original Hebrew says "removed".
This will also be answered with Deuteronomy 22:29
It says "When a man sells his daughter into slavery." Is this an issue with you? Would you sell your daughter? No
As for the latter verse, yes, this is true but Exodus 22:17 says this: "But if her father refuses to let him marry her, the man must still pay him an amount equal to the bride price of a virgin."
>1 Timothy 2:12
Do you not believe in gender roles? Such a thing that people are so widely divided over? In the CHURCH, womens are not to preach the gospel, but they are able to have just about every other role in the church.
I will answer the rest once I get around to the other questions.
Finally, a genuine question. If you are familiar with it, and haven't perused a genuine relationship with God, then you've missed the point of the Bible. The Bible is a manual to lead people to a relationship with God and to learn about who he is. If you are familiar with it but haven't taken the information and perused God with it, then yes, you will be separated from God. As for the lake of fire? I am not sure personally what is in hell. Some parts say that it is on fire, while other parts say that it is total darkness. Such a place cannot be both. However, it does represent total desolation and separation from God.
I've pursued a relationship with god, I used to be christian. I still have a relationship with god, but the christian paradigm does not fully express this relationship.
If God is part of all creation, then being separated from god would probably mean being literally unraveled out of existence? in other words, the atheist's version of death. That brings up another question to mind, is our spirit considered energy? and if so, would it fall under jurisdiction of the physical law of conservation? what do you think about the law of conservation with regard to what happens to "unrepentant" souls after death?
also thank you for the response!
>However, it does represent total desolation and separation from God.
Where do you get this heretical idea? In the Orthodox Church and in the actual Bible, God is known to be present everywhere, even in Hell.
"If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."
Biblical layman here. Please see my comment more as a question out of interest, rather than an attempt to flame you:
Knowing the angels were created before the humans (Satan already fell from Heaven when Adam and Eve lived), why did God create the humans in the first place, if he already had the angels?
Alright, more old testament.
When Jesus healed the blind man, the Pharisees asked him what sin his parents committed that would cause him to be blind. Jesus said: Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.
It never said medicine couldn't heal you. It simply said that the woman with the blood disease had faith in Jesus and because of it, she was healed. Even after consulting the doctors of the town.
I have somewhere to be so I'll answer this last verse
This is talking about the possible price of becoming a Christian, which for many people turns family member against family member.
I have to leave for work and my ride will be here in minutes. Hopefully this thread will be here when I get back.
No, I'm not. I really had to leave. Anyway, yes we do.
Christianity isn't supposed to be organized. It is supposed to be decentralized. Christianity has everything to do with God. Christianity has to do with building a relationship with God.
Supposing a group were traveling around your state, led by a charismatic speaker who claims the world is ending soon and that to be saved from it you must sell your belongings, follow him and cut off family members who try to stop you. What would you call that?
OP, are you one of those Christians who takes the bible completely literally? If so, how do you deal with that these books are written, translated (often through multiple languages), gathered and interpreted by flawed men?
Would you give up your place in heaven for a sinner you hate/are disgusted by?
If no, how can you ever get into heaven with that mentality? Christ died for the same sinner you would refuse.
If yes, why?
I would say that they are be unrepresentative of the Bible and what is says about the end of the world. Oh, oh, you mean like Jesus right? Well, that modern charismatic speaker is not being representative of what has already been spoken. The coming of this specific charismatic speaker (Jesus) had been prophesied about already, the difference between the two is that Jesus had been prophesied to come, and this modern hypothetical speaker is nullified by Jesus' words who warned of wolves in sheeps clothing.
Yes, Peter was given authority over his church, just like the other apostles were. The aspects of the church had already been solidified by Christs teachings. The epistles that were written are all based on Christs teachings backed up by old testament scripture.
This one takes a bit more to explain, but let's start with the Dead Sea Scrolls, which were old testament manuscripts found in the 40s and date back all the way to 200BCE-60CE. When compared to modern scripture they still maintain their meaning all this time. As for the New Testament, record keeping was simple. Let's call the original manuscript A. You have three copiers, B, C, D, and E. We know the New Testament maintains it's original translation because of this. Copiers B, C and D, copied A correctly, but E did not. When a inconsistency is spotted, then E can be corrected by looking at manuscripts from B, C, and D as well as the original manuscript A. Make sense?
Honestly, I can't really say that I hate anyone. Hypothetically, if I did, and my sins were still forgiven despite my unforgiveness towards that person, I can't say for sure. Hell is a terrible place separate from God, and it's forever. It would all depend on the salvation of the person. I'm now not speaking hypothetically, but realistically in order to answer your question because I can't simply answer it by choosing one or the other. I personally still love my enemies no matter what they do to me.
I came up with one years ago (not as an atheist, I'm Christian myself). God forbids murder. But what if murdering someone would prevent them from doing some great, great evil in the future? Most Christians would agree it doesn't matter. So what if I'm willing to accept that? And go to Hell in order to stop that great evil? That's a sort of sacrifice, in a way, right? Doesn't God want us to sacrifice for others?
There are multiple weird logic games you can play, and in the end I believe that the best course of action is to not approach them. I know that sounds like I'm saying we should stick our heads in the sand, but it's more than that. I wish I was better at taking concepts in my head and translating them into words, but unfortunately I'm not.
>I would say that they are be unrepresentative of the Bible and what is says about the end of the world.
John 2:18, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:34
>Oh, oh, you mean like Jesus right? Well, that modern charismatic speaker is not being representative of what has already been spoken. The coming of this specific charismatic speaker (Jesus) had been prophesied about already, the difference between the two is that Jesus had been prophesied to come
Not according to Jews. Jesus satisfies none of the criteria for messiah prophesied in the Torah. Christians have rationalizations prepared for that, just as Muslims claim Muhammad's coming was predicted by the Bible.
>this modern hypothetical speaker is nullified by Jesus' words who warned of wolves in sheeps clothing.
Pretty good way to pre-emptively sabotage any potential competitors so their religions don't supercede yours.
>Few denominations act that way.
Because it hasn't been a cult for about 1,900 years. When they accumulate enough members that their continuation is guaranteed, they can drop practices like separating new recruits from family and belongings as it's no longer necessary and deters potential converts.
However, Christianity did have those requirements early on. Sell your belongings: Luke 14:33, Matthew 19:21, Luke 18:22
Cut off unsupportive family: Matt. 10:35-37, Luke 14:26, Matthew 19:29
Also, an unverifiable future reward if you convert and continue to believe, an unverifiable future punishment if you ever stop believing or do not convert, verses which admonish you not to subject your beliefs to reason and various other mechanisms designed to motivate conversio and evangelism while deterring apostasy. Works like the much more complex big brother of chain letters. Also has many similarities to pyramid schemes in terms of how they propagate by having each recruit go out and recruit more people.
Why have you not fucked off and died in a fire yet?
Trying to amend the Bible so it looks like a collection of random bullshit excreted from the minds of misanthropic mysoginistic bronze age desert nomads interpreted by power hungry Europeans for their own ends is the worst kind of apologetics. It's just changing the source material To make it something different.
the Bible is a turd of total bullshit and just because some of the messaging is vaguely positive doesn't make the book itself acceptable. I personally don't even buy toilet paper any more. I just grab a free bible from the hotels I stay in and take them home and use the pages.
It's a tough question to answer, primarily intended to determine why you're a Christian. Since you can't answer I can only assume that you would not, or at least would not do so as easily as some, which means you're less willing to sacrifice your salvation for one that can't normally be saved. That, in my opinion anyway, is the most Christian act one can perform. Then again, you'd be circumventing God's judgement, which is naughty.
Interesting,there's a famous mind bender similar to your idea. The Trolley problem.
I suppose the right thing to do is killing the one to save the many because inaction is equal to killing everyone the "great evil doer" would kill, or at least knowingly allowing it and thereby assisting by not using your knowledge of the future to kill him/her.
I'm aware of that. Abrahamic religions were just the first to optimize the formula. That's why they were so incredibly successful and account for roughly half of all religious adherence in the world today.
Judaism has the whole heaven and hell thing but lacks many of the traits of Christianity that make it so virulent, like the ephatic instructions to evangelize.
Islam is more virulent still because of additions like verses which promise guaranteed passage to paradise for those who die fighting infidels.
(cont) it would be completely on their shoulders whether they choose to accept salvation. It's a question that really doesn't make sense because there is still things in the Bible to consider when asking this question unless you are speaking hypothetically. Something to think about though.
I know you're a Christian but (perhaps you already realize this but I'll say it anyway) There is killing, then then there is murder. If you are to kill a man to prevent something worse, than it is killing, but if that man surrenders and you don't show him mercy and kill him anyway, it's murder.
You have this predetermination that I am simply making excuses, pulling cards out of my sleeve and have this agenda to push. Although that may be true for other "Christians" that is not who I am. Christianity is not a cult. It is not a means of control. You haven't been "freed" from religion. Christianity can be made into a cult, but if you read the Word, it does not agree with anyone that is considered a cult. I am not being controlled by my church, I can leave whenever I want, if I screw up somehow, they are there for me because they have a genuine love for me.
Now, Jesus does satisfy the criteria for Jesus to be the messiah, they aren't "rationalizations" prepared for arguing so, it comes straight from the Bible. I wont take the time to list all of them but you can check them out here.
Christianity is not a means of control, men may have made it a means of control before and still do, but that is not what it's about. It's about willingly following God, freedom of choice to accept or deny him.
You really have this twisted man and I really want to explain it all but it would take too much to type. Email me if you want to discuss this further. Present what you have and I'll explain everything.
I disagree. The trolly problem is simple. Inaction is a choice. You cause whichever outcome occurs, so the only correct choice is to create the situation with the least deaths.
The great evil-door is slightly different. And as I sit here typing, I'm trying to figure out exactly how it is different, but I can't figure out how to explain it. But I feel that it is different. The key thing to remember is that in Christianity, death is not the end of things.
>There is killing, then then there is murder. If you are to kill a man to prevent something worse, than it is killing, but if that man surrenders and you don't show him mercy and kill him anyway, it's murder.
It's all good and well to say that, but the Bible never makes that distinction. It never says some things are killing and some things are murder or specifies how to determine which one it is. It just says, "Thou shalt not kill."
>You have this predetermination that I am simply making excuses, pulling cards out of my sleeve and have this agenda to push.
Not at all. You largely don't realize what you're doing or why.
>Although that may be true for other "Christians" that is not who I am. Christianity is not a cult. It is not a means of control.
How would you know? Presumably you recognize Morminism and Islam also both began as cults, centering around Joseph Smith and Muhammad respectively. Do practitioners of those religions realize that?
> I am not being controlled by my church, I can leave whenever I want, if I screw up somehow, they are there for me because they have a genuine love for me.
Because it's a religion now. It long ago accumulated the number of followers necessary to ensure it would survive, so it dropped some of the more onerous, transparently cultlike practices. Nonetheless, it once did those things:
Sell your belongings: Luke 14:33, Matthew 19:21, Luke 18:22
Cut off unsupportive family: Matt. 10:35-37, Luke 14:26, Matthew 19:29
>Now, Jesus does satisfy the criteria for Jesus to be the messiah
And Muslims claim that the Bible foretells the coming of Muhammad. They, too, have elaborate arguments in support of that contention. Are they therefore correct?
>You really have this twisted man
I'm sure you see it that way.
Not OP, but you ARE operating from a point of prior assumption, and that point is that
A) Christianity is incorrect
B) Jesus and the Apostles were intentionally operating Christianity as a cult.
This second part makes no sense, because they never personally got anything from it. In fact, quite a few of them were tortured and killed.
I suppose it'd be the punishment/reward for whoever does/doesn't pull the lever.
You save the many and kill the one BUT in this case you also experience hell for this action whereas inaction, normally the "less ethical" option is ideally rewarded with life eternal? yet if you're Christian obviously God can't be wrong.....I think your version is a paradox and has another layer of choice to it. Makes it extra hard to pick, at least for a devout believer or one who can imagine being a devout believer.
Thank you, hopefully one day you'll meet the Shepherd.
>you ARE operating from a point of prior assumption, and that point is that
>A) Christianity is incorrect
It isn't an assumption. Here is proof.
>This second part makes no sense, because they never personally got anything from it. In fact, quite a few of them were tortured and killed.
If you don't understand the psychology of cults, especially following the death of their founders, it does seem quite baffling. However, read this:
>No it doesn't. It actually says thou shalt not murder.
Except that's wrong. The original Hebrew is
13 לֹ֥֖א תִּֿרְצָֽ֖ח׃ ס
(13 lō’ tirəṣāḥ: )
The root word means kill, see pic related.
Because you are treating it as a religion and not a relationship.
It's a difficult question to answer, not because it tests my relationship with God, but because such a scenario doesn't exist. It's utterly contradictory all things considered. It's not a matter of if someone can be saved, it's a matter of whether or not they are willing. If they don't want to be saved, why would they want to spend eternity with God. It's a question that simply, doesn't make sense. It is however a good question to make someone question their current standing of love, so I will give you that. Much like the question, "Would you still follow God if there was no Heaven?" If it was merely my life that was at stake, yes, I definitely would give it up for someone else.
Actually, it does make that distinction quite well. Exodus 22:2 says this If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him.
Also the Bible says "thou shall not murder" not kill.
I think this would be better discussed via email, so email me, because I would genuinely like to discuss this further.
Oh no, I don't assume that. Posting this on 4chan, I pretty much already expect it so it really doesn't bother me. Anyway, to put it simply, the angels (like all God's creations) give him glory. What sets humans and angels apart is that angels are primarily servants to God, and humans are the children of God. God created humanity to love them. He wanted a love relationship with humanity.
Like I said man, email me. I genuinely want to discuss this with you.
Almost all of that is "I'm going to tell you how to interperate your religious texts". You have a couple of good points, but I've read more points in favor of Christianity. Have you read any theological writing as to why Genesis should be taken metaphorically?
Exodus 20:13 "Thou shall not murder."
Instead of providing some translation, I will show you the original Hebrew in which the verse was written.
Which can be found here. It says murder.
You'd like to continue discourse privately so you can more effectively spread what you have to me. It's designed to make you strongly want to do that.
You can't see it like fish that can't see the water they're in. You can look at Mormons or Muslims, or Scientologists for that matter and recognize that they've been fooled and how those religions are designed to rope people in and motivate them to spread it.
But you don't turn that same understanding on your own religion.
#1. What makes chain letters spread so effectively?
#2. Why do pyramid schemes instruct recruits to go out and recruit more people, who are then instructed to go out themselves and recruit yet more people? Is it really because fabulous profit awaits you if you do this?
#3. Do you know what a botnet is, how it spreads, and what it's for?
>Almost all of that is "I'm going to tell you how to interperate your religious texts".
You will only ever interpret your own religion in such a way as to vindicate it. Christian theologians call this interpreting scripture "through a Biblical lens", or by the holy ghost.
Creationists also claim that evidence which supports evolution can be "interpreted" in such a way as to support six day creation. Is what they're doing intellectually honest?
>Have you read any theological writing as to why Genesis should be taken metaphorically?
Yes, and that's already addressed in the document.
Why do you have such a distrust towards me? I want to explain everything, but I can't explain it all in 2000 characters, and even then you will still have questions. The conversation would be better situated via email. Have you been hurt by the church before?
Are you blind? I already posted the original Hebrew, with an actual dictionary showing the actual definition. What you posted is just another translation alongside the Hebrew text.
>Why do you have such a distrust towards me?
I know what's in your brain and why you want to spread it to mine. I am well aware it makes you think you're doing that for altruistic reasons. That's a great way to motivate evangelism. I don't want to harm you because it's possible to cure hosts. But I am also not going to let you corner me and regurgitate viral material.
>I want to explain everything, but I can't explain it all in 2000 characters, and even then you will still have questions. The conversation would be better situated via email. Have you been hurt by the church before?
No, I recognize virally structured information when I see it and work to undermine it because I object to what it is and how it works. Even if it were wholly benign, it is still social engineering, which I find deceptive and manipulative.
>Not at all. You largely don't realize what you're doing or why.
An anon already answered this
>How would you know? Presumably you recognize Morminism and Islam also both began as cults, centering around Joseph Smith and Muhammad respectively. Do practitioners of those religions realize that?
How would I know? Because I go to a church, who are filled with loving, rock solid people who are normal like anyone else. There *are* in fact Christian cults, but anyone with a brain can recognize a cult. Being a Christian doesn't make you inherently brainwashed, that's ridiculous. Many people choose willingly and don't regret it. You think I'm just blindly following, never questioning a single thing. I do question my God and my Bible often, the difference between you and me is that I have genuinely searched for the answers and maintained my faith, while you search for your own answers to throw at believers because you never truly believed in the first place. You don't really want answers, you never did. If you find an answer to a question, you'll write it off as some false rationalization or lie because anything of Christianity is wrong. All of it. Muhammad's followers were promised worldly rewards for their faith, what were the followers of Jesus promised? They were promised death. Jesus told them that if they followed them, they WOULD die. Now tell me how this started out as such a cult again?
>How would I know? Because I go to a church, who are filled with loving, rock solid people who are normal like anyone else.
This is the answer a Muslim or Mormon would give.
>There *are* in fact Christian cults, but anyone with a brain can recognize a cult.
Not you apparently.
>Being a Christian doesn't make you inherently brainwashed, that's ridiculous.
Would you realize it if you were?
>Many people choose willingly and don't regret it.
They are either indoctrinated at an age when their sense of identity and worldview are still liquid, they believe anything they are told and haven't yet developed critical thinking faculties (why sunday school, youth groups and efforts to reinstate teacher led prayer exist) or when they are at a low point in their life, such that they may feel compelled to seek refuge in religion (why prison ministries and third world missionary expeditions exist)
Basically they target the most vulnerable like any other disease
>You think I'm just blindly following, never questioning a single thing. I do question my God and my Bible often
Which presupposes that God is real. i.e. not real questioning
>the difference between you and me is that I have genuinely searched for the answers and maintained my faith, while you search for your own answers to throw at believers because you never truly believed in the first place.
No, I did believe. You can't wrap your head around that because you're still on the inside. Almost every atheist in developed countries used to be a Christian. Do you really imagine none of them ever truly believed, just because you cannot imagine yourself ever deconverting?
> You don't really want answers, you never did. If you find an answer to a question, you'll write it off as some false rationalization or lie because anything of Christianity is wrong.
So much posturing here, but nothing of substance.
>Because it's a religion now. It long ago accumulated the number of followers necessary to ensure it would survive, so it dropped some of the more onerous, transparently cultlike practices. Nonetheless, it once did those things: Sell your belongings: Luke 14:33, Matthew 19:21, Luke 18:22
Cut off unsupportive family: Matt. 10:35-37, Luke 14:26, Matthew 19:29
That's right. The cost of following Christ is often losing everything. The message of Christ hasn't changed, it is the hearts of the Christians that has because they don't want to give something up for Christs sake. They want to be comfortable. Did Jesus' parents have to sell their belongings? What about the faithful Centurion in Luke 7? No. But Jesus says that in order to follow him, you must lose yourself. Make sacrifices, because while salvation might be simple, it is by no means easy.
Also, while it may be made out to be a religion by many churches, that was never the intention. The whole intention of Jesus dying on the cross was not JUST saving humanity from their sins, but so that they could have their sins washed away, that they might become holy, be worthy of receiving the holy spirit and fellowshipping with God. The whole point was about relationship, because Jesus loved humanity so much, he would rather die than to be separated from him.
>Muhammad's followers were promised worldly rewards for their faith, what were the followers of Jesus promised? They were promised death. Jesus told them that if they followed them, they WOULD die.
They were promised treasure in heaven.
>Now tell me how this started out as such a cult again?
Okay. Early Christianity was structurally and behaviorally a textbook doomsday cult. Jesus was the cult leader, the 12 apostles were the original members.
1. Claims world is ending imminently (John 2:18, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:34)
2. Wants you to give away belongings and follow him ( Luke 14:33, Matthew 19:21, Luke 18:22)
3. Wants you to cut off family who interfere (Matt. 10:35-37, Luke 14:26, Matthew 19:29)
4. Unverifiable reward if you believe (Heaven, i.e. the carrot)
5. Unverifiable punishment if you disbelieve (Hell, i.e. the stick)
6. Sabotages the critical thinking faculties you might otherwise use to remove it (Proverbs 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:7, Proverbs 14:12)
7. Targets children and the emotionally/materially vulnerable for recruitment (sunday schools, youth group, teacher led prayer, prison ministries, third world missions)
This is a very old routine people were pulling well before Jesus came along and which people still pull today (David Koresh, Wayne Bent, Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite, etc) Jesus was one of the few whose cult outlived his death.
Christians commonly recognize this is the origin of Mormonism, Islam and Scientology but to the best of my knowledge do not recognize it is also true of Christianity. They may argue Mormonism and Islam descended from Christianity, but Christianity descended from Judaism in the same fashion.
The observant may notice that it works very much like a chain letter, multilevel marketing or a computer virus. All of those are examples of information structured in such a way as to motivate patterns of human behavior which reinforce, defend and spread it to as many hosts as possible for as long as possible.
>That's right. The cost of following Christ is often losing everything. The message of Christ hasn't changed, it is the hearts of the Christians that has because they don't want to give something up for Christs sake. They want to be comfortable. Did Jesus' parents have to sell their belongings? What about the faithful Centurion in Luke 7? No. But Jesus says that in order to follow him, you must lose yourself. Make sacrifices, because while salvation might be simple, it is by no means easy.
Yup, this is the "in-religion" rationale. Scientologist have an identical rationale for their "cut-off" policy. But the real reason is to separate you from the people most likely to try to extricate you.
>The whole intention of Jesus dying on the cross was not JUST saving humanity from their sins, but so that they could have their sins washed away, that they might become holy, be worthy of receiving the holy spirit and fellowshipping with God. The whole point was about relationship, because Jesus loved humanity so much, he would rather die than to be separated from him.
Jesus never expected to die. It was written that way after the fact, along with a narrative in which his death served some cosmic purpose that indebts everyone to him so that the fledgeling religion would not die with its founder, as most of them do.
You can see this exact process happening in the documentary "end of the world cult" near the end.
It's waning in the US and Europe but surging in developing countries, China included. It may yet be possible to devise a fast acting cure. If not, you grab a shovel and I'll grab a shotgun. I'll shoot, you bury. If we develop a rhythm it'll all be fixed before you know it.
>If there was a virus that was 100% benign (not implying that this is the case), would you still try to stop it from spreading, and if yes why?
I'd like people to at least be aware that it exists and how it works, so they can make that decision for themselves.
You guys are just wasting time. Look what it has turned into in America. Its become a mockery of itself. A festival of ignorance. If you're not a christian you are getting NOWHERE in politics. People are electing fucking retards like Bush TWICE because he has good faith. Look at the Republican party, Its clearly using Christianity to slow down progress. Everything from global warming deniers to Evolution deniers. When 1/3 of the country believes we're in end times and WANT to see the world come to an end so their savior will come back. Its obvious what it has become. Jesus would be weeping if he existed.
>Would you realize it if you were?
That's a loaded question. Are atheists brainwashed because they don't believe in God? If they were would they know it? It can go both ways and that's why that is a stupid question.
>Okay. Early Christianity was structurally and behaviorally a textbook doomsday cult. Jesus was the cult leader, the 12 apostles were the original members.
It's not a doomsday cult. Christianity is a life style.
>Yup, this is the "in-religion" rationale. Scientologist have an identical rationale for their "cut-off" policy. But the real reason is to separate you from the people most likely to try to extricate you.
What makes something "in-religion" rationale? And Christians aren't scientologists so why are you comparing apples to oranges? You are acting like there is crap happening behind the scenes at church. There is no ambiguity here.
>Jesus never expected to die.
Yes he did. If I went through explaining the reasons why, you would just turn it around and say that it was somehow added afterwards or some crap.
Unless you lose the predetermination that Christians are being controlled like cattle, there is no way I can give you definite answers because you will answer them the exact same way.
Hey friend! Recently, I did a Google Image Search for "fedora neckbeard". It brought up nearly every dank fedora maymay, but without the captions! Why do you suppose that is? It's not because Christians are shameless liars, is it? Can't be. They have a rule against bearing false witness after all.
During Biblical times and beyond, names were given not to just give a child a name but to give meaning to their person. Many times, names were based on who this person was. Even today names mean something. Your name has a definition. During these times, names were attributes, but the names in the Bible in particular are rather peculiar. The names in the Bible all mean something, for example, David means "Darling" or "Beloved". Now, when you take the geneaology from Adam to Noah and read what their names mean, this is what happens.
>Adam – Man
>Seth – Appointed
>Enosh – Mortal
>Kenan – Sorrow
>Mahalalel – The blessed God
>Jared – Shall come down
>Enoch – Teaching
>Methuselah – His death shall bring
>Lamech – Despairing
>Noah – Comfort or rest
Man appointed mortal sorrow, the blessed God shall come down teaching. His death shall bring comfort.
Man appointed mortal sorrow (the fall of man, death and the suffering of the world) the blessed God shall come down teaching. (Yeshua was God in the flesh who came to teach the world about who God was and how we could be like him. He came teaching mercy, forgiveness, love, compassion, humanity and salvation) His death shall bring comfort. (Yeshua's sacrifice meant an infinite atonement for the infinite price for sin meaning man could recieve this salvation and recieve the Holy Spirit and know the love of God)
Do with this information what you wish.
I must leave. This ended up being far more interesting than most other threads on this board. Didn't expect that at all.
Thanks OP and everyone who contributed. Looking forward to see the archived version when I get back.
Sorry I missed your question.
Well first, I would like to state that God is not part of creation, but rather the creator. Who knows the properties of the human soul? It is quite the enigma. However, the Word does state that we do have a soul, and a spirit which cannot be destroyed, so there's that. When a person dies, he is either joined with God, or separated from God.
I'm glad to have made this board. I like talking to people with opposing opinions. I hope my inbox fills with invitations of discussion.
That's what is so strange about it, is it wasn't intentional. That's just how the genealogy simply happened. It was just a genealogy and I don't think it was ever "interpreted" this way. Perhaps this popped out at some readers at one point or another. I found this myself one day because I was interested in what the names meant in original hebrew.
"When I was a child I thought as a child. When I became a man I put away childish things".
Same old shit over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
How do you reconcile science & history with the bible?
>new evidence shows pyramids weren't built by Jewish slaves but paid skilled laborers
Meaning the story of Moses is based on an untrue premis
>the age of the earth being 6000 years old
Science has proven this is false and that the age of te earth is 4.5billion years old
>newfound Roman Empire documentation describing the creation of Jesus as a myth to control the poor during a massive economic downturn.
Just wondering how in the face of this & other evidence of biblical discrepancies you are able to rationalize & maintain your faith.
>That's a loaded question. Are atheists brainwashed because they don't believe in God? If they were would they know it? It can go both ways and that's why that is a stupid question.
Are they taught to believe that from birth? Is there a book of atheism which has the viral qualities found in Christianity?
>It's not a doomsday cult. Christianity is a life style.
Christians view it as a lifestyle. Non-Christians recognize it began as a cult.
>What makes something "in-religion" rationale?
It provides a superficially plausible reason so you don't realize why you're actually being admonished to spread it, to treat doubt as toxic and so on.
>Yes he did. If I went through explaining the reasons why, you would just turn it around and say that it was somehow added afterwards or some crap.
In other words you've got nothing.
>Unless you lose the predetermination that Christians are being controlled like cattle, there is no way I can give you definite answers because you will answer them the exact same way.
It is not a predetermination. There was a time when I didn't understand any of it and believed as you do. It was thorough Bible study that led me to discover all of this.
If the gist is you can't be helped, that's a shame. Bulldozed into landfills with the rest of 'em the moment it becomes politically feasible to do that again.
Is there any biblical description of the fall of Lucifer as described in John Milton's Paradise Lost?
If so, please elaborate.
You seriously don't even want to converse. You don't even want answers to any of your questions. It's like playing chess with a pigeon, no matter how good you are at chess, it'll still knock over the pieces and strut away victorious. You don't want answers, not in the least.
Speak for yourself you lonely fucking loser.
I would repost it but I might get banned.
Nope. Just you. Even OP is cool compared to you and OP is ALWAYS a faggot. That says a lot about you.
>You seriously don't even want to converse.
There aren't two sides to this issue. You're sick. I am trying to cure you.
>You don't even want answers to any of your questions.
Your definition of "answer" is "explanation of cult teachings".
>It's like playing chess with a pigeon, no matter how good you are at chess, it'll still knock over the pieces and strut away victorious
We have different ideas about which of us is the pigeon. A more apt comparison is an immune man fending off a zombie. Zombies don't know they're zombies and don't really mean any harm, they are just driven to spread what they have to people who don't have it yet.
>You don't want answers, not in the least.
I want to help you. You're too blinkered to realize you need it though.
I'll pray you get hit by a truck and fucking die.
Doesn't that passage refer to the King of Babylon though?
Awesome picture by the way, saving that.
>Doesn't that passage refer to the King of Babylon though?
I suppose it could be interpreted that way.
>other religions and even atheism can do the same.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about atheism, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class at MIT, and I've been involved in numerous scientific breakthroughs, and I have over 300 confirmed publications. I am trained in physics and I'm the top astronomer in the entire US scientific community. You are nothing to me but just another liberal arts major. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of professors across the USA and your GPA is being reduced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can debate you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my mind. Not only am I extensively trained in particle physics, but I have access to the entire arsenal of JSTOR and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
Which version of the Holy Bible do you use? I have an English Standard Version, but that's only because it's the only one I could get for free.
It's pretty interesting to see people attacking Christianity so vigorously on the one hand while trying to summon a succubus to fuck on the other. Talk about inconsistent.
Matthew 7:1-5, am I right?
>It's pretty interesting to see people attacking Christianity so vigorously on the one hand while trying to summon a succubus to fuck on the other.
/x/ is one person as we all know.
then get with the fucking program and start bashing christians and evoking fat-tittied succubitches.
>whines about inconsistency
>is part of the problem
>/x/ is one person as we all know
No, it's a community of people who lose their shit over one Christian who is trying to do a Q&A while condoning endless threads about how to summon and fuck demons as though they don't exist within the same universe.
Now take off your tinfoil hat, shave your neckbeard, and accept the fact that you've developed a mental complex because your mother forced you into Sunday school.
>Quiet, nigger. White men are trying to have a conversation.
I like it when atheists question me. I had read my Bible cover to cover before, but it wasn't until my knowledge was challenged that I really began to understand it. God bless the atheists, truly. And I like the New Living Translation. It's much easier to understand and I just use translation tools to understand the original hebrew.