>>2964165 >Also how the fuck did it take 3 games for Guy to finally be playable on a console? 'cause Final Fight Guy came out in Nipland between 1 and 2. It was a Blockbuster exclusive in 'murrica, while Yurop didn't even get it at all.
>>2964396 The flipping over an enemy and the fact you can slow down your combos so you can keep doing damage without performing a knockdown makes the fighting better. Final Fight comes off awfully generic by comparison. It looks better, sure, but the fighting just feels boring by comparison.
>>2964409 The three protagonists in SOR1 felt interchangeable for me. At least Haggar, Cody and Guy each had their different fighting style with their unique moves and characteristics. There's nothing more satisfying that grabbing a punk as Haggar and perform a pile drive.
>>2964409 >Final Fight comes off awfully generic by comparison Except Final Fight set most of the conventions of the genre in the 90s. Where do you think the desperation attack, on-contact grabs and varied enemy design from SoR came from?
>>2964461 >Where do you think the desperation attack, on-contact grabs and varied enemy design from SoR came from?
Renegade/Kunio, Double Dragon, maybe Golden Axe. Not that the point of origin for concepts is particularly important when you can have someone make a blatant ripoff of a game and manage to do it better.
>>2964528 None of those have desperation attack, and they have quite lackluster enemy design. They kinda have grab system but it's pretty archaic, Final Fight's on-contact grabs were quite intuitive and pretty much all 90s brawlers ripped it off.
>>2964567 Honestly, the on contact grabs aren't particularly interesting. Final Fight doesn't even handle them particularly well. Playing Streets of Rage, you're always presented with a choice of how you fight. You can punch slowly, doing less damage, but not knocking enemies away, or you can do the typical button mashing combo moves, or you can get a few hits in, go for a grapple, do a few knees by holding the direction of the enemy, or do a throw by pressing the opposite direction, or hit jump to hop over their head, both getting you out of danger and setting you up to suplex the enemy. There is always an option to change up how you fight, and you can perform whatever combination of moves you like.
Final Fight is much more clumsy in that regard. Your grappling is limited to knees and throwing, throwing being what you end up doing 90% of the time because any direction+attack is throw. There is no controlling of your basic melee attacks either, you always do a combo, and the second you let up to maybe try and go for a grab, the enemy you were just pummeling strikes back. The only interesting thing to do is go for a grab, jump, and do a slam/pile driver, but even then its risky because you don't set yourself up for the grapple, you just try to get the grab and hope the enemy doesn't get on the same level as you and start punching.
>>2964675 >You can punch slowly, doing less damage, but not knocking enemies away, or you can do the typical button mashing combo Nigger that's just an unintended infinite combo, you can infinte in Final Fight too if you actually played it. >or you can get a few hits in, go for a grapple, do a few knees by holding the direction of the enemy, or do a throw by pressing the opposite direction Yes, all of this was stole from Final Fight, except you don't have to hold any direction for the knees. > or hit jump to hop over their head, both getting you out of danger and setting you up to suplex the enemy. That's just an unnecessarily annoying way to do a foward throw, it has the same function. Final Fight's grab controls were much better in that regard since all you have to do is press the direction you want to throw, it's a VERY useful move if you want to master the game.
tl;dr git gut, you just proved that Final Fight did it first years before but with more intuitive controls.
also >There is no controlling of your basic melee attacks either, you always do a combo, and the second you let up to maybe try and go for a grab, the enemy you were just pummeling strikes back. Press down when doing a combo, dumbass.
>>2964160 Hm. The Japanese version is too easy though. Set it on hardest, and just spam level 3 blitzes for an easy one-life-clear, especially with Zan. SOR3 otoh Blaze reigns because jump kicks are so pivotal. Not counting Shiva obviously. BK3 is too easy even on hardest, and the US version is a bit too cheap.
I love SOR1 and SOR2 though.
SOR2 is the GOAT 16-bit console beat'em up in my book.
SOR1 is nowhere near GOAT status. It's simplistic and lacks replay value, but it's just a pleasure to play and I'd play it over the SNES Final Fights any day. The music and atmosphere are great and the game holds a lot of nostalgia for me. It's one of those games to have in your collection just because it's a quality game, not necessarily because it'll get tons of replays.
SOR3 even though its badly designed (difficulty-wise) and unpolished is still fun to play, but in a pick-the-joke-character-in-a-fighting-game sort of way.
Final Fight arcade is the absolute GOAT. I hate the sequels though. Hate'em. Also, I blame the SNES port for giving the game a bad reputation to those who never played the arcade game first.
>>2964409 Final Fight arcade is the deepest game in the genre's entire library. It's one of those games that will fully be appreciated once you're able to 1cc it or at least get pretty good. A lot of other (newer) games like Shadow over Mystara and A vs P, will be appreciated immediately because they're fun, intense, aesthetic, and flashy, but once you know the games inside-out and can 1cc them, you'll think they're not that special after all. But Final Fight is the opposite. At first, you'll get your ass kicked and complain that the gameplay and controls are clunky, but once you get good, then you'll be in awe at how amazing the game design and gameplay are. It's the only beat'em up that ever made me feel that way desu.
>>2965093 Dunno if it's the deepest, but it definitely has more depth than people's first impression. The only downside in the game is that the bosses are quite cheeseable, but the regular levels and enemies are easily some of the genre's best.
Anyway, I probably think this way because I use Guy most of the time. Haggar too is a highly technical character.
Guy is such an underrated character. Most people don't even know that he has two types of rebounds. His normal one and a super-fast one with ridiculous recovery that is so fast that sometimes Axel/Slash can't even block on time, and let's you set up anything you want due to the massive crowd-clearing and awesome recovery. Also he has the best pipe and sword in the game, arguably better than Haggar, which is a subtle but awesome advantage. Everyone's sword/pipe have the same exact horizontal reach, but Guy's hurtbox stays back keeping him safe, while everyone else moves forward making them vulnerable, esp. Haggar. Also, Cody's sword/pipe has 1 less vertical-axis pixel reach (about 70-80% of the time - not random - it's frame-based) than Guy and Haggar. Guy has the best walking speed, a great jab, jump kicks with no startup, long back jump, & the super rebound. He's just as good as Cody all-game-round except for like 2 hard spots in the last level where Cody's knife is priceless. But it takes a lot more work to get the same results with Guy as Cody. Haggar is still the best though, jab infinites be damned. It's not like Haggar doesn't have his gut punch infinite.
>>2965114 Nice info there, yeah i feel a lot safer with Guy when using a Katana, now i see why. Also, how do you trigger the "super rebound" or it's random? Either way, the rebound sure is underrated by newcomers, but it's a very useful crowd control move.
>>2965134 Yeah, that's definitely up there for sure. Might even be harder than FF overall, but personally I wouldn't necessarily equate being harder with being deeper or more technical. Don't get me wrong, WOF is a very deep and technical game. I just feel FF edges it out. In WOF, you can improvise if you have good crowd-clearing, enemy herding, and fundamentals, while FF it's required to know each of the individual enemy types by-heart and it helps a bunch to have previous knowledge for individual sections of the game (kinda like having previous experience and knowing the solutions to each level in Bubble Bobble). If you can 1cc with Guan Yu then you can easily do the same with 3 others, but Haggar, Guy and Cody all require different sets of skills (though admittedly, not THAT different). Huang Zhong is another story obviously and makes it an entirely different game. WOF deserves a lot of credit for not having cheeseable bosses though, on the other hand, it can be attributed to the 3-hit knockdown rule, which sorta limits the offensive potential of the characters. Like the flashiest things you can do are 3-jabs-to-throw and grab tricks, though once again HZ is another story and can do some crazy shit. Anyway, both games are neck and neck to me, but I definitely acknowledge your side as well. >>2965146 It's not random. After jumping toward a wall, hold the opposite direction when rebounding.
Exhausted and gotta sleep. Will answer replies tomorrow. Peace.
>>2966101 >Dismissing an honest opinion with a meme reply. Final Fight 1 on SNES is still pretty playable despite being 1P only. Final Fight 2 on the other hand sucks. The character's movement are too slow feeling and the new cast don't have the same charisma as the originals.
Hardly. They're way more intuitive than whatever is going in in Final Fight. SoR also managed to avoid the cardinal sin of porting a multiplayer beat'em'up with only a single player mode. Everything you can do in Streets of Rage is pretty evident if you take the time to fool around and see what you can do. In Final Fight, after trying to re-evaluate the nuances of it, all I've come across is holding a direction while combo-ing to end in a throw (useful, kind of obvious in hind sight), jumping backwards to get across the screen faster, and shifting to get infinite combos, which looks more like a bug in Final Fight and like an intended method of fighting in Streets of Rage.
>>2966254 you didnt even know about holding up or down to throw in final fight... and you expect us to take you seriously? face it, you're just new. stop being so damn vocal and opinionated when you havent even played the games much.
>>2966254 ALl your fucking complaints about Final fight would disappear the moment you get a little good. im dead serious. Make this a goal for this week or something. Get to stage 3 without losing a life. That's all i m asking homeslice
>>2966448 Didn't say it was bad. It's just not that good unless you want to learn the thing deep enough that you get into shit like exploit sliding and cheesing the AI, which I'm sure is a good payoff for people in to that sort of thing.
>>2966468 If I could get a decent answer out of most of you people it wouldn't be an issue. Its not like holding up or down is particularly consistent in the arcade version. I was managing to pull that off better in the SNES version, which goes back to what I was saying about SoR being intuitive. The only person making any sense is >>2965093, who points out you have to try and 1CC the thing to get good enough to appreciate the depth. If you all some point beyond "SoR is a rip off" and nonsensical shit like the controls sucking in SoR, please illuminate me, because I'm trying to figure out what I need to understand to move from "Final Fight is a generic quarter muncher beat'em'up" to "Final Fight is the best beat'em'up of all time. ALL TIME".
>>2966482 Challenge accepted. Will report back when its done.
>>2966490 >muh AI exploits/cheesing Except SoR2 has much more of this on Mania than FF. Since the Genny can't handle 10 enemies on screen the only thing they could do to make it harder is giving the enemy lightspeed walking compared to your slowass character.
>>2966506 >Since the Genny can't handle 10 enemies on screen
Are you seriously using that as an argument against SOR? It had pretty much the most onscreen enemies out of any home console beat-em-up in the 90s until the 32bit consoles came out three years later. And it did with almost no slowdown - I think it only has slowdown in the part immediately before Jet.
And I don't even remember many enemies with lightspeed walking. There are like two galsias that do it, maybe. The difficulty lies in the fact that enemies, when they get in range, WILL attack you, and since you have a ton of them you'll get surrounded and bleed health too fast.
>>2966513 >do it on the arcade version, of course.
>>2966517 >It's very consistent and works 100% of the time
Maybe at the proper range, which for Haggar seems to be more forgiving. This type of thing I'm more used to doing in Renegade or Double Dragon where you would hit a few times, go for a grab, and then proceed to do whatever you want from there. Cody and Guy don't do a throw if you're punching at the edge of your range.
>>2966545 It was impressive for a home console, but having 5 or 6 enemies max means they have to buff the enemies more to make it challenging. I'm not making shit up, the speed buff in enemies is quite evident. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrZS-g7bfaw
>>2967141 do you realize that a 1cc in final fight means 3 lives? do you realize a "1cc" in sor2 is having like 13+ lives in total on your first credit?
so you're telling me that you can beat mania mode with 3 lives? 8) WITHOUT any "cheap" shit, since you're such a fucking vanilla mama's boy.
like using jab infinites with axel/blaze/skate. no "glitches" like max's back grab from a jump down smash because "it looks like a bug". no picking up "secret" items like hidden lives. no block glitch kills with max on zamzas and barbons. No infinite throws on bosses that can be grabbed when they get up (you DO know what i'm talking about, rite?).
Now since youre so confident about sor2 being such a fair game. Its your turn to upload a youtube vid of you beating mania with 3 total lives, or find one on youtube (one that is NOT tool-assisted obviously).
your vid is immediately disqualified with any of the things mentioned here >>2967245
you do realize that shit like infinite throwing bosses on the elevator in the last level is something that everyone who isn't a newb does, rite? GASP isn't that a fucking exploit, you freaking newb who didn't even know about the throw combo in final fight, and thinks it's hard to actually do.
As far as trying to 1CC the first three levels goes, I'm not finishing that tonight, although I've come to the conclusion that the game is just designed to be a quarter muncher and getting good at it is entirely a matter of managing enemy placement. 1st stage, super easy. 1st Boss, he himself is pathetically simple, but beating him without losing a life is mostly a matter of handling the knife guy spawn, fat guy spawn, and not getting caught in the molotovs. Stage 2 is a bit more difficult in that there are Andres everywhere, which by themselves are easy to kill, but trying to deal with them and knife guys or whoever else is on screen is pretty annoying. Boss 2 is mostly easy. Approach from above or below, watch out for charges if he doesn't have both swords. Stage 3 starts off with bullshit and continues from there with an 8 guy pile up and an Andre.
I just spent 6 hours playing Final Fight, restarting on a game over, and its not really dynamic at all. It's all about memorizing where enemies spawn and what they spawn doing and not getting caught in a stunlocked whirlwind of bullshit, with most of that being achieved by careful herding of enemies so the AI falls in to an easily killable pattern. Kudos to people who memorized that shit, but honestly its just getting tedious as fuck at this point. There are plenty of other beat'em'ups out that don't really on rote memorization as their defining progression mechanic, where the enemy or stage requires you to change up your fighting style instead of saying "welp, you missed that throw, get fucked and do it right next time." The game is almost as bad as the last stage of Renegade, except it starts at the first boss. Shit's easy until you fuck something up, and then the machine eats your quarter.
>>2967285 If you say so. I've got better things to do than try and prove I'm better than a quarter muncher. The point is I just dropped a significant chunk of time in to the game and I'm still not impressed.
>>2967024 I give you the first, but your other points are retarded. Katana and Pipe are still fallible and dangerous weapons to use, much more than say, Max's Katana in SoR2. Also you are a damn pussy if you can't remember a couple of enemy spawn, because memorization is minimal in Final Fight compared to other games.
>>2967265 >Stage 3 starts off with bullshit and continues from there with an 8 guy pile up and an Andre. kekked here, you just suck. The only thing you have to do there is this useful move you just learned today newfriend >>2964781
The only enemy spawn you have to memorize in the game are the fat guys, nothing else is needed, you just are a pussy 2bh.
>>2967420 Bringing stuff to bosses is cheating for you? retarded logic, if anything it's good administration of resources and not easy to do. Besides that's much more exploitable in Cadillacs, Punisher, AvP etc. since you can bring guns and food to the bosses.
Agreed with Edi. E though, it's well known that Final Fight has cheeseable bosses, JUST like SoR.
>>2967420 that player is a great final fight player but not 'that' great a guy player. he can't do the triangle jump properly. he got through because of his good knowledge of the game. you dont need to carry all those weapons with you. he probably just did it for insurance because guy isn't his main.
I've mostly had SoR1 and SORR in mind, but SoR1 vanilla can totally be done without using any exploits. There are some really powerful and easy to use ones like the grab-regrab move and you just don't need to use them.
Literally the first result on YT for "streets of rage longplay" has a guy playing through without having to use that shit against bosses.
He does use the back kick a lot- it's tedious but not an exploit. He does use regrab against some minor enemies but I know from my own playthrough you don't have to.
>>2967506 You're the faggot who only played SoR remake and you're basing all your opinions off of that shit. How about you actually play the fucking games that we're actually talking about you retarded little gimp
sor1, 2 and 3 all have exploits, and to succeed in sor2 and 3 on the hardest difficulties you DO need to play cheap and use exploits you fucking dimwit. Even playing sor1 on hardest and limiting yourself to 3 lives you want to use infinite jabs to play efficiently.
>>2966187 >I'm with you in this one, Final Fight 1 is a mediocre version of the first game, but it's still more fun than FF2 and FF3, at least it's challenging. Final Fight 1 on the SNES gets a worse wrap than it really deserves considering it's a product of the console's inherent limitations and a rushed launch deadline. Despite this, it still outdoes most of the early SNES beat-'em-ups (including the first Rushing Beat, which I never cared much for). Personally I don't even consider it a port of the CPS version since they changed so much of the game. It's really more of a reworking.
Out of the two SNES sequels, I prefer Final Fight 3, Final Fight 2 does bring back the missing 2P mode , but I feel like they took a step back in every other aspect of the game to make it possible.
>>2968287 Dynasty Wars doesn't play like a traditional belt-scroller though. It feels more like a horseback-'em-up.
>>2968325 It's pretty much Final Fight Guy (the second SNES version) with 2P mode and Cody brought back in. It can display more enemies than the SNES and Sega CD versions, but the enemy placement and buffing from the former version has been preserved. Aside from the shitty GBA chiptunes and intrusive dialogue sequences, it's a pretty serviceable version, but it's too different from the arcade.
>>2965093 >Final Fight arcade is the absolute GOAT. I hate the sequels though. Hate'em. Also, I blame the SNES port for giving the game a bad reputation to those who never played the arcade game first.
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