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PAL vs NTSC
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I often hear about about how NTSC has faster music and gameplay and PAL has better pixel quality but what games (and systems) do you think the negative worked better for? i.e. slower music in certain sonic stages on the PAL cartridge or a more blurred/less defined shadows in horror games on NTSC carts.
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>better pixel quality
LOL
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I personally prefer some of the music tracks in the PAL version of Sonic the Hedgehog to the NTSC versions.
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>PAL has better pixel quality
Wtf is "pixel quality"?

Can you idiots not make shit up? PAL is trash.
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>>2963206
Are you going to add anything to the thread
if not kindly take your shitposting to /v/
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We already have a thread about this, where we established PAL is trash:
>>2939464
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>>2963217
>PAL is trash:
Maybe for consoles but, for its intended purpose (TV broadcasts) it's clearly superior.
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>>2963253
/vr/ - Retro Games

>>>/tv/
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>>2963209
>Wtf is "pixel quality"?
It has something to do with SNES-level fidelity, I think.
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>>2963209
Probably refers to the fact that PAL consoles used SCART, but that has nothing to do with PAL itself since NTSC can use SCART usually just as well.
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>>2963253
This is only true in modern time because we have good motion interpolation to fix the 50Hz flicker (not relevant to games because of the latency penalty). Back when PAL color encoding actually made a difference (it doesn't now because TV is all digital) there was no good motion interpolation, so PAL was never both good and relevant.
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>>2963418
>fix the 50Hz flicker
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>>2963209
Higher pixel quality.
Better colour scheme.
Significantly better ressolution.
Slightly worse refreshrate of 50Hz... when 24fps is used for movie to this day. Not to be confused with framerate in a game.

PAL is much better, your tv was worse all those years. Just because they fucked up conversion when moving them to PAL isn't PAL's fault, it is obviously the superior choice all else being equal.
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>>2963423
>having a slow enough brain to find 50Hz flicker acceptable
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>>2963442
.... that's not how it works.
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>>2963456
It's exactly how it works. Higher IQ = faster brain = higher flicker fusion threshold. If you like PAL you are literally stupid.
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NTSC-J is how the developers intended you to view it, if you watch it on anything else you're doing it wrong.
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>>2963194
ITT: Europoors try to justify their terrible hardware
I'm not trying to insult you. I really do feel bad you got fucked over on this.

>>2963213
>I don't agree with it, so it's shitposting!
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>>2963194
PAL is clearly better 'cause Mario goes faster up blocks just as OP showed
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>>2963485
What a generic, shit tier reply. You can literally turn it back to you with 0 struggle and that would make just as much sense:

ITT: Ameripoors try to justify their terrible hardware
I'm not trying to insult you. I really do feel bad you got fucked over on this.
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>>2963408
PAL composite (and S-Video) has a lot less color bleed than NTSC. Some NTSC effects (dithering mostly, eg rainbow transparent waterfalls in Sonic 1) simply do not work on PAL composite: you see regular dithering instead of a blurry mess.
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>>2963460
Gosh, you'd deserve to be banned from that board for such a shit post.
>>
>better pixel quality

What the fuck am I reading?
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>>2963418
Pal was always superior you redneck.
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>>2963613
>low IQ europoor detected
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>>2963470
But every ntsc displays colours differently - never like the developers intended it to be. only pal displays colours correctly. And when you do pal 60 or even rgb pal 60 you have the best crt ever.
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>>2963418
Pal has superior colour, superior resolution superior connectors and can do 60Hz in 99% of all cases.
Bye Ameripoorfags.
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>>2963418
>fix the 50Hz flicker
This is irrelevant, especially for movies. In fact, pretty much only 'murica youngins (those who never ever actually used a CRT since the tech died before they were born) will claim that 50Hz = flicker. The reason is quite simple, and definitely good enough for movies: phosphors had longer persistence in PAL TV sets, to make up for the slower refresh rate.
This worked well in practice and still works well today. I hardly notice any flicker on any of my screens from that era - save for only one, which is a PC monitor (and usually ran at 70Hz anyway to begin with).

US manufacturers did not build TV sets with such phosphors, meaning that if you're running PAL/SECAM hardware on a NTSC TV you will have a bad time. Also, no US manufacturer cared much about picture quality to begin with, and you still see that today as RGB is rarer than unicorns on consummer-grade TVs in North America (and S-Video still relatively uncommon). At least they did realize something was off after a long while, and offered YUV inputs as an alternative to RGB.

Some more stuff: http://tig.colorist.org/pipermail/tig/2002-December/000563.html
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PAL is superior in all ways, however games were designed for the NTSC standard and thus were "gimped" for PAL systems.
A game that was optimized for PAL speed and resolution is vastly superior to the NTSC version, however these are few and far between. Crash Bandicoot games come to mind though.
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>falling for the Petrified Australian Latency meme

I'd rather have Never The Same Colour and this coming from someone who grew up in Europe.
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>>2963639
>especially for movies
The vast majority of movies are so low framerate that the display hardly matters. They will have bad motion quality no matter what you do. Even good motion interpolation can't fix them without annoying artifacts.

>phosphors had longer persistence in PAL TV sets, to make up for the slower refresh rate.
If it's slow enough to eliminate flicker then it's slow enough to cause sample-and-hold blur, which makes it worthless for gaming. And I live in a PAL country and I'm old enough to remember CRT TVs. None of them were anywhere close to this slow.
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Oi M8 put the jabber on walleywocket. I still care about irrelevant signal standards because it's the only thing our 3rd world countries have over the home of the brave and land of the free.
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>>2963194
The only time that an NTSC-designed game om PAL is significantly slower or a PAL-designed game on NTSC is significantly faster is when the programmers didn't take that into account and didn't adjust things to make the playing experience between region types as similar as possible. PAL is only superior insofar as it has a higher resolution. It also has a lower refresh rate so it's a trade off at best.

The only major games I've heard that are superior on the PAL versions, are some of the N64 era Rare games for example.
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Shitposting aside, some games had their OST retimmed to fit the PAL conversion, like Lolo 3, Action in NY (PAL S.C.A.T.), street fighter 2010, Alfredo Chicken, among others, and i dont mean that they make the slow 50hz timing sound like the US 60hz, but actual re-composition.

So if you play those versions on an NTSC NES, they play with only dlighty faster tempo.

Other games werent even retimmed at all and just play and sound slower on PAL but play fine on an US NES, like PAL Kickle Cubicle or Kabuki : Quantum Fighter.
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>>2963656
>The vast majority of movies are so low framerate that the display hardly matters.
Yep. Arguably in that case, PAL is still better - much closer to the source framerate and did not suffer from any telecine or pulldown.

Sidenote: PAL Laserdiscs on the other hand sucked hard (so rich bastards nearly always imported NTSC ones). Usually authoring was incredibly retarded, as they were re-encoded from the NTSC LD instead of the movie source, meaning pulldown techniques were used *twice* (once from movie to ntsc, one from ntsc to pal). Ugh. Also, since it was composite, it didn't have much picture quality impact on audiences used to VHS getting the RGB treatment - but at least LD had less video noise and much better sound.

>it's slow enough to cause sample-and-hold blur
It did, sightly. But it's not comparable to that "sample-and hold blur" you find on LCD panels, at all: it's far, far less noticeable.

>makes it worthless for gaming
and thus, no (but it's obviously not ideal, when the ideal is what, say 400Hz?).
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>>2963663
>home of the brave and land of the free
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/01/20/these-are-the-worlds-best-countries-sorry-america-youre-number-4/
I'm guessing you're speaking of Germany
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>>2963685
>But it's not comparable to that "sample-and hold blur" you find on LCD panels, at all: it's far, far less noticeable.
Of course not, because it's still extremely flickery. The EBU only defined the colors, not the persistence. Decay times (usually quoted as time to 10% brightness, because brightness decays exponentially) were typically very similar to SMPTE phosphors, all sub-millisecond. That's how even PAL CRTs could have sharp looking motion.
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>>2963194
>pixel quality
>caring about butchered and slow mo PAL at all

This is bait, right?
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>>2963749
You sound uneducated.
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>>2963634

Can you actually run a PAL game in 60hz if you have a 60hz TV?
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>>2963786
You can in the case of some PS1 games with a cheat device, but it rarely works perfectly.
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>>2963786
Yes. Pretty much all Sega games with a JUE header will work for instance.
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>>2963580
>calling people ameripoors
>being a massive faggot in the year of our lord 2016
>sucking dick
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>>2963738
>Of course not, because it's still extremely flickery.

There's just no talking to you.
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>>2963580
>You can literally turn it back to you with 0 struggle and that would make just as much sense
Except it doesn't make any sense because 50hz is objectively the incorrect speed at which to play these games. Get bent.
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>>2963786
No you are doing it wrong. You should play the ntsc games on pal rgb 60 crt. that is what i meant.
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>>2963194
Wtf why does PAL give you an extra coin and more points? Plus it allows you to advance further in the game in the same amount of time.
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>>2964181
Because the PAL ran slower at 50Hz they increased Mario's run speed by 10% to make up for it and they increased coin pickups by multiplying them by 1.3 because you were less apt to pick up coins due to the slowness - So he still managed to pick up 4 coins and bringing his coin counter to 5.2 and it clips the fraction in the display and point calculation. This is noted as one of the first ever uses of floating point in video games.
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>>2964704
I hate floating point
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>>2964704
I had no idea. Interesting. Thanks for the tidbits.
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Pal are better color and Dreamcast (PS2, GC, Xbox...etc...) run on 60hertz.
Some games on Snes, Genesis or PS1 they accelerated Pal Version to be at the same speed as NTCS Version. Like on this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGACXzEjgw4
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>>2963580
>>2963580
Dude, you really have to learn not to feed people like that. How obvious does a troll have to be for you not to encourage them?
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>>2964704
Thanks for that info. Now I have more ammo for my "EU was fucked over by poor PAL conversions", since I can cite Mario as an example of compensating for the lower speed.
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I have no idea how the fuck anyone could ever even defend NTSC let alone try to argue it's superior.

I'm American, by the way, and I have a lot of experience with both. Going back to NTSC from PAL is like wearing someone else's glasses.

There's really no argument to be made here. It shouldn't even be a point of contention. PAL just looks better. Fact.
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>>2967658

If you're using at least an S-Video connection then NTSC is better. Fact.
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>>2967658

You're talking video games or just regular 24fps TV?
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>>2964704
I thought NES had no means for floating point calculations.
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>>2967773
Every processor has the means for floating point calculations. Even the 2600
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>>2963194
This picture is a bad example. SMB1 runs about 9% faster in the PAL version...

And is about 50% more fun because of it.
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>>2967669
Nope. Your "fact" is bullshit.
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>>2963786

As long as the game supports it. That's true for 6th console games. 5th console and earlier usually did not support 60hz.
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>>2964704
I played a LOT of PAL SMB and coins * 1.3 is something I would have noticed.

I just tried the (E) version of SMB + Duck Hunt which is what I played and it does no such thing. I also tried SMB (E) REVA and REVB and REVB looks like some crazy rom hack that runs way too slow and neither of them have any disparity between the coins you pick up and what your coin counter says.

So I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, what do you mean? Are there MORE coins in the coin blocks than on NTSC? Because there aren't more in the level in 1-1 at least...
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>>2965725
On 2D consoles changing your frame rate was difficult because of the shortcuts the coders took. PAL slowdown was lazy, but understandable.

On the PS1 and later it was damn near unforgivable. You have to be pretty damn lazy to avoid coding in AT THE VERY LEAST a global framerate calculation that you can easily modify from 30 to 25. Hell if PAL games simply frame SKIPPED down to 25 (render 30/60 internally, drop 1 frame every 6) we would have been okay with it but NOOO they often couldn't be arsed to do anything more than repackage the NTSC one.

(Pay no attention to the bitter brit-gamer.)
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>>2968959
>drop 1 frame every 6
So you're saying you WANT judder. What the fuck is wrong with you?
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>>2967773
It has no built in hardware for doing floating point. But the basic atoms of floating point calculation can be done in pure integer units, just slower. But usually you used fixed point where you'd say "top 4 bits is integer, lower 4 bits is decimal". Then add/subtract is nearly "free" and you only need to shift to deal with multiply/divide issues. This is good enough for video games and about 90-99% of the speed of integer.
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>>2968974
It's better than global slowdown. Judder is annoying but PAL slowdown isn't just a bit slower it's embarrassingly slow.
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PAL 4 LYFE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXGAzruMkSg
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>>2968996
You can't be serious. I hope you're not serious.
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>>2969012
So what would be the god tier way to do a proper NTSC->PAL conversion?
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>>2969023
God-tier would be to reprogram everything.
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>NTSC has faster music and gameplay
no, pal is slower. ntsc is how it is meant to be played, thus ntsc is normal speed while pal is slower.

>PAL has better pixel quality
bro what the fuck is wrong with you

>i.e. slower music in certain sonic stages on the PAL cartridge or a more blurred/less defined shadows in horror games on NTSC carts.
what the fuck is wrong with you
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>>2968997
vaporwave/10
>>
PAL for the PAL games
NTSC for the NTSC games

>>2963843
60hz is the incorrect way to play PAL-developed games.

PAL-developed games take roughly 15% of all video games, but still. Saying 60hz is the norm for all video games is ignorant.
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>>2963460
shitpost of the year
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>>2967813

The overworld theme is way better on PAL with the different tempo too. It gets a more solid beat.
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>>2963801

> Ameripoor thinks his country's system isn't fucking him in the ass every day

> American shitposting with an American game that's marginally better on PAL consoles
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>>2963887

So then you get NTSC games with 60hz PAL signal? Shouldn't that be the best setup possible?
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>>2969672
yes, correct.
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>>2969672
>So then you get NTSC games with 60hz PAL signal?
The closest you can get is modding consoles for PAL60, which has higher resolution so the vertical overscan needs to be increased to fix the aspect ratio.

>Shouldn't that be the best setup possible?
No. 60Hz RGB > 60Hz component > PAL60 (with corrected aspect ratio) > NTSC
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>>2970102
we were talking about 60 hz rgb via pal you douchy douche. besides scart is better than component.
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>>2970124
>rgb via pal
I don't think you know that these technical terms mean, kid.
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>>2970134
i do, old fart.
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>>2970124
>rgb via pal

>>2970176
>i do

Well, that's definitely advanced stupid you caught here. I'm sorry, kid, you're fucked and can't be fixed.
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>>2970191
don't blame yourself, your autism is showing.
pal can do 1080p via scart
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can we have one pal vs ntsc thread with out shit posting,
if your gonna say somethings shit atleast say why its shit
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>>2968997
i live in the eu and i dont remember sonic ever sounding that slow
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>>2963786
You can, I played FFT on my chipped PSX.

I should note however that if it's plugged into a non-60hz socket, it'll be entirely in monochrome.
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WAHHH
WAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
WWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH
>>
I'm not your PAL, friend.
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>>2970927
>non-60hz socket

The heck does that even mean, my TV can display 60hz color over composite at 240p but b/w at 480i, while RGB by the nature of the signal itself always displays color. There is no 60hz socket.
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>>2970974
I dunno specifics, but SCART can handle 60hz while the cables that come with a console tend to only handle 50hz.

I don't know shit about old TVs. I only used my SCART plug and didn't have cable.
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>>2970994
That's because SCART carries raw RGB, while composite carry only compressed video (PAL, NTSC, or SECAM). I assume your consoles came with a composite plug, which is inherently shit.

Also >>2970124 is fucking painful to read, what the hell dude.
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>>2971103
rgb is s.video for ntsc-j and pal is component for ntsc-u. scart is rgb for pal.
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Why the fuck would you even use PAL in 2016? I swear, all the third world europoor shitters who grew up with this shit just have massive fucking nostalgia goggles. You don't have to use it anymore. Grow up.
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>>2971141
what else would you use besides PAL or NTSC? iS there something else or new - perhaps a new television standard i have missed?
As far as I know there is still PAL 2160/50p UHDTV and NTSC 2160/60p and 100p and 120p planned for the future. There will always be film/television/tvs with PAL and NTSC forever. This standard could only be overcome by introducing adaptive-sync or g-snyc or whatever it is called as a tv standard or by 300fps a TV production standard that could be downconverted to 50/100fps and 60/120fps or just make 300hz a tv standard. that would unify pal and ntsc content. problem is that 300hz would leave still the issue of pal speed up and ntsc 2:3 pulldown - 120hz is much more convenient for ntsc. 600Hz would be the truly unifying format - but that will probably never happen.
Get used to 100hz and 120hz in the future.
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>>2971158
>As far as I know there is still PAL 2160/50p UHDTV and NTSC 2160/60p and 100p and 120p planned for the future
What?
I know that pretty many countries switched to DVB-T/2 already, what's the point of NTSC/PAL/SECAM today?
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>>2971158
Lol I made a mistake. Sorry 300fps is only compatible with 50/100fps and 60fps and not 120fps.
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>>2971181
you mean ntsc/pal as a standard in terms of color and such? yeah that is the past. the new standarf is uhdtv with rec.2020 but the frame rates of PAL and NTSC remain - so it's still and forever PAL and NTSC and there is a good and plausible reason for that.
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>>2971115
wat
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>>2971186
>but the frame rates of PAL and NTSC remain
Weren't PAL and NTSC refresh rates chosen because AC frequencies in respective countries?
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>>2971215
continents not countries.
yes and they still apply.
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Maybe it's just me, but I think the sound is muffled in the PAL version of Super Mario 64.
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>>2971252
ps1 version would have better sound.
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>>2967658
hahahahahahaha, false. Also, not a fact.
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>>2971274
Pal is better. Only HDTV and UHDTV are better.
NTSC DVD 854x480px
PAL DVD 1024x576px
HD 1280x720px
FHD 1920x1080px
UHD 3840x2160px
FUHD 7680x4320px
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>>2971261

>super mario 64 on ps1
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>>2971305
>>
>>2971305

What game is that?
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>>2971181
>what's the point of NTSC/PAL/SECAM today?

Backwards compatibility with nearly a hundred years worth of broadcast material.
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>>2971323
and all future material that will use the same standards.
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>>2971215
>>2971232
That's one thing I don't understand. Why couldn't they made PAL 60hz right from the start?
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>>2971345
>That's one thing I don't understand. Why couldn't they made PAL 60hz right from the start?

Because Europe used 50hz power lines.
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>>2971307

Mario 64 isn't narrow corridors.

>>2971318

Floating Runner
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>>2971383
Which is a bullshit argument because Japan uses 50Hz power in half the country, and they have 60Hz TV.
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>>2971429
I also have 4 50/60Hz CRTs, but they were designed for 50Hz power output. I think this was more of an issue early on.
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>>2963485
>terrible hardware
>video standard that barely anyone knows about
calm down buddy, i think most people wish PAL never existed and we just used NTSC 60Hz from the start but no need to call us poor.
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>>2971475
Why? It's a Superior standard of tv, with better resolution and better colour. Think of all the time you spent watching tv compared to playing videogames. Just because gaming companies usually made a shit out of the whole thing isn't the fault of PAL.
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>>2971501
>It's a Superior standard of tv
Only after high quality motion interpolation was invented, which is post /vr/ time.
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>>2971429
It's not bullshit this is why the standard exist. the one half with 50hz but 60hz tvs is a flawed system. it's also not just about the tvs - pal tvs can also do 60hz. it's also about the recording.

to record a tv program filcker free in usa and japan u need to use 30 or 60fps because light flickers also in 60/120/240hz and produced flicker in other frequencies.

in europe you film in 25fps oder 50fps under artificial light for the same reasons. in real light it iis irrelevant. but if you film in 30fps or 60fps in europe you get light flicker. that is why we need always will need pal and ntsc, simple logic reason.
24fps is an exception - they use tricks, but it is not optimal. 30fps or 20 would be more optimal for ntsc. this is why alot of european directors shoot in 25fps what the americans never understand -like ugh why are lars von trier movies 25fps and they get slowed down to 24fps in us bluray. cant they just use 24fps? no.
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>>2971504
>high quality motion interpolation

That would only help with NTSC's pulldown issue though. PAL movies have literally no interpolation because the film was just scanned faster.
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>>2971518
>if you film in 30fps or 60fps in europe you get light flicker
Only if you use shit-tier lights. Incandescents don't flicker. Electronic ballast fluorescents don't flicker. LEDs with high frequency DC-DC converters don't flicker. Only magnetic ballast fluorescents and low quality LEDs flicker.

>>2971525
I was thinking more of TV than film. Film always looks shit no matter what because idiots think that 24fps is "artistic" or some bullshit.
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>>2963194
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FjWe31S_0g
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>>2971429
>Which is a bullshit argument

It is not If you stop being a retard and consider the historical context and the infrastructures of the periods when the systems were introduced.

Europe and America both used the most common frequencies because it allowed TVs to be created cheaper. This was back when TV broadcasting DID NOT EXIST, or only existed in experimental stages (like when the Olympics were broadcast in 1936 - not even in all of Germany, but only around Berlin). And also consider the fact that even electricity was not fully standardized at this time, you had places using 16.6Hz, 25hz, 42hz, 50Hz, 60Hz, 72Hz, and so on. There are places in the USA that still use 16.6Hz even today, because they are too costly to replace. Early television also varied like that, there were systems using 25Hz, 33.3Hz, 40Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz.

Eventually 50hz and 60hz standards emerged in television because they were the most economical, most compatible, and most widespread (especially once electrical frequencies became standardized behind the infrastructure).

Japan introduced television much later, in the 50s, when other countries already had their own systems fully standardized. Plus Japan was under American occupation at the time, which may have been a factor as well. They did have their own 50hz standard developed too, PAL-N, but it was not used as they went with NTSC-J instead (which is the same as NTSC-M but with different IRE levels).

Europe and USA invented television standards when television did not exist. Japan just picked an existing one. Also: frequency converters are a thing.

context, motherfucker.
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>>2971547
>Only if you use shit-tier lights.

You mean like the ones used in the 1930s and 40s? Back when television broadcast was invented?
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>>2971518
>lars von trier
I just checked his Wikipedia article and it seems he is to blame for Dogme, the worst idea in filmmaking.

I support anti-dogme:
1. Cool sets and props must be used.
2. An awesome sound track and sound effects are mandatory.
3. Cranes and dollys are mandatory unless you're CGing everything.
4. Special lighting is required for indoor scenes.
5. Like the original dogme, optical work and filters are forbidden. But this is not because you are making boring arthouse garbage, but because you are doing effects digitally.
6. The film should take place somewhere impressive, preferably in the past or future.
7. Genre movies are encouraged. Mixing genres is permitted if it's awesome enough.
8. The film format must be at least 8K and at least 120fps (240fps if you count each eye separately, obviously it has to be stereoscopic 3D). Bonus points for full dome FOV.
9. The director must be credited.

I want to see some real visual spectacle for once. Maybe the Avatar sequels will manage it.
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>>2971575
No, those were non-flickering incandescents. HID lights flicker but those weren't common then.
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>>2971547
It still doesn't make artistically and technically to use 30fps or 60fps in Europe. What if you want to film a tv screen or shit tier lights at an outside setting? This is a valid reason why this standard exist and will always exist. It is a standard for a reason. Why should anyone bother to film in 30fps if it is not the standard and only complivate things? The only reason I can think of is to please Americans? You can be mad about it, but PAL will always exist until we have 300fps or 600fps as a standard in the future.
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>>2971576
I like you. I like Lars as well.
I don't support ant-dogma, I like dogma-95.
But I would make my own dogma. and that dogma is similar to your anti-dogma.

DCI 8K 120fps rec.2020
But if I film in Europe I will use DCI 8K 100fps rec.2020.

Also nice would be to film in 600fps and downsample to 100fps and 120fps.
But I guess I wouldn't use cgi because 600fps rendering would make me bankrupt.
>>
>>2971615
The biggest reason is because most people watch TV on computers now, which is almost always 60Hz. Most LCDs will sync to 50Hz but how many people bother changing the refresh rate? On mobile devices it's not even possible. 50fps on 60Hz looks even worse than 3:2 pulldown.
>>
>>2971629
All television in PAL countries is 25fps and 50fps and will continue with 50fps and 100fps in UHDTV times so the standard remains. And there will always be directors who film their movies in 25fps.
I think the standard is not the problem but the limited technology. Like why not use adaptive sync as a tv standard so you dont need to worry about pal and ntsc. also if all tvs supported 100hz and 120hz there would be no problem. all pal tvs support 60hz but ntsc tvs cant do 50hz so pal content has to be slowed down to 24fps while we can watch 24fps and 30fps without speed up or slow down. the only thing that sucks is that international movies are speed up to 25 fps in tv - thats why i never watch international movies on tv- i prefer to watch them unsynchronized in english anway. but yes that sucks.
>>
>>2971664
>the only thing that sucks is that international movies are speed up to 25 fps in tv

That's a good thing, unless you want your movies to play just like in the theater.
>>
>>2971667
but it's still prettier than pull down.
tv sucks anyway with pal speed up or ntsc pull down. i'd rather watch a blu-ray
>>
>>2971696
I meant to say I unironically like the speedup, always did.
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>>2971703
Lol, I know what you mean. There are some music videos I got in 25fps from official youtube account. When i listen to the original theatrical version from the movie in 24fps it sounds slow3e down although it is the original. I think it's just what you're used to.
>>
>>2963209
I think hes talking about noise
>>
>>2971305
>>
>>2968947
Lol, you didn't really try to verify that did you?
FYI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUI5xFEW_tg
>>
>>2972878
PAL Mario grabs an extra coin at 00:29 due to player being desync. Mystery solved.
There is no coins*1.3 thing going on at all.
>>
>>2972897
Great jerb dere Private Repeat.
>>
>>2963485
>ITT: Europoors try to justify their terrible hardware
who? where? are you on drugs?
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Would you rather play with a higher resolution but at the wrong speed, or a lower res with the right speed?
>>
>>2972878
>emulation
test is bad
>>
>>2963209
PAL is in fact wayyy better than NTSC. It's just that the lazy developpers didn't bother doing some timing changes for their games. Nintendo was like the only one doing it for their game. SMB1 PAL is like ten times better than NTSC. Better music, better physics. It's only a tad bit slower but it's like 96% of NTSC speed so nobody notice overall.

so stfu pls.
>>
>>2977950
>Better music, better physics.

Really? Source or proof?
>>
>>2977950
50Hz
That's all the argument needed. 50Hz. PAL is proven shit. There's no getting around it. It doesn't matter what the programmers did, they can't change the refresh rate.
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>>2977954
Music is the same, physics is worse because of the lower framerate.
>>
>>2977985
50Hz progressive mdoe is great.
The only shit I know of is 24fps and 25fps.
30,50 and 60fps all look great for gaming.
>>
>>2978002
>50Hz progressive mdoe is great.
No, it's flickery shit (or blurry if you use sample and hold to avoid the flicker, or laggy/artifacty if you use motion interpolation).

>30,50 and 60fps all look great for gaming.
>30
>look great
CINEMATIC EXPERIENCE
Fucking lol.
>>
>>2977985
You're a fucking idiot.

The actual REFRESH RATE doesn't matter at all. Movies look fine at 24fps. Most top console games run at 30fps TODAY.

There are all kinds of reasons PAL gaming is bad, but PAL the standard is much better. Those guys are talking about something completely different, not the fucking refresh rate which barely matters at all. You know, those guys who aren't just making shit up, they're talking about something completely different.

PAL resolution is 576, NTSC resolution is 480. That's like 100 lines extra resolution. For comparison 720 lines (HDTV), is only 144 lines extra resolution over PAL.

What's more, increasing low resolution is much more important than increasing high resolution. That's why 1080 lines isn't another dramatic improvement over 720 lines. But 576 lines is over 480.
>>
>>2977992
PAL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulqS2JOGsb4
NTSC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGX4obVl64w

>>2977992
It isn't.

>>2978010
And don't forget that NTSC color system is fucked up (and that's why people call it "Never Twice the Same Color").
>>
>>2978010
>REFRESH RATE doesn't matter
Flicker perception is non linear. 50Hz flicker is far more than 20% worse than 60Hz flicker. And flicker is the only way to get high motion quality without blur or high latency.

>Movies look fine at 24fps
Movies look like shit at 24fps. Thanks for proving you're an idiot.

>PAL resolution is 576, NTSC resolution is 480.
Interlacing is terrible too.

If all else is equal, higher resolution is better. But no amount of higher resolution is enough to compensate for 50Hz refresh rate. And note that 60Hz is not good either, 60Hz is the absolute minimum acceptable.
>>
>>2978015
>NTSC color system is fucked up
>actually using NTSC color encoding

Everybody who cares about quality uses RGB (modding if necessary).
>>
>>2978016
>50Hz flicker is far more than 20% worse than 60Hz flicker
50Hz CRT flicker is a fucking urban myth fabricated by USA tards trying to boot 50Hz stuff on shitty TVs lacking European-style phosphors.
>>
>>2978010
>Most top console games run at 30fps TODAY.
yeah, and its shit
>>
>No, it's flickery shit

No it's not. Even 24Hz or 48Hz looks great. You're an idiot.

>CINEMATIC EXPERIENCE
Most games were made with 30fps.
>>
>>2978032
Lies. I live in a PAL country, I grew up with CRTs, I know what European phosphors look like. Just like on NTSC TVs, they typically decay to 10% in less than millisecond. If they didn't then you would get sample and hold blur which is even worse than PAL flicker, and you certainly did not get sample and hold blur. Europeans denying PAL flicker are as bad as Americans pretending 3:2 pulldown is acceptable. Just because you grew up with it does not make it good.
>>
>>2978042
>Even 24Hz or 48Hz looks great.
Not sure if bait or retarded.

>Most games were made with 30fps.
The vast majority of 3rd and 4th gen games are 60fps.
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>a whole thread dedicated to two shit standards
>heated discussion over inferior European and American technology
>still not adopting the clearly superior PAL-M standard which has the same color quality of PAL with the refresh rate of NTSC

Ayy, I rejoice at the peasants who wallow at their delusional shit standards with slowed down gameplay or distorted, watered down colors whilst I enjoy my superior color quality with my fast and adequate gameplay
>>
>>2978047
Dude, I live in a PAL country as well. I fucking held a retro convention over the last three days which included consoles ranging from Pong clones to the Gamecube. No. Fucking. Flicker.
>>
>>2978071
I avoid PAL as much as possible because it looks so bad, so I last used a PAL CRT TV about 2 years ago. It was just a normal TV, not some fancy broadcast monitor. The flicker was extremely annoying, far worse than 60Hz CRT flicker. It looked exactly the same as every other PAL CRT I've seen. You are either in denial because you grew up with flicker, or you literally have a slow brain.
>>
just ignore muh 50hz flicker man, he already shat up a different thread the other day

he was already caught out spewing bullshit proving he's never viewed a PAL screen in his life
>>
>>2978053
that's just a fraction of gaming history. most games are 60fps.

24Hz looks great. Never been to the cinema? Cinema is actually 48Hz and looks amazing. You're just an ignorant douche. I can tell.
>>
>>2978053
>The vast majority of 3rd and 4th gen games are 60fps.
Have you forgotten about the rampant slowdown?
>>
>>2978090
Mostly a problem on Nintendo consoles with their underpowered CPUs.
>>
>>2978063
>Still clinging to old technology
fuck right outta here with your pal-m.
Who would use that shit if we have
UHDTV 8K 100fps & 120fps rec.2020
>>
>>2978092
>>2978090
>looking through the world with retro glasses
most games made are 30fps. your just thinking of shitty retro games that couldnt do 480p
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>>2978078
Hahahaha! You wouldn't even know the fucking difference. You just proved yourself full of shit. 50Hz is the MINIMUM that PAL standard CRTs have to have. A lot of CRT PAL tvs went over 100Hz and didn't work with some lightgun games as a result.

Are you that same guy that was posting before with your "literally have a slower brain" fuckwit nonsense? Your concept of intelligence is pretty messed up.
>>
>>2978089
>24Hz looks great. Never been to the cinema?
24Hz looks very bad. It can't even show realistic fight scenes because a fast punch is invisible at 24fps.
>Cinema is actually 48Hz
More frequently 72Hz with frame tripling, which means you get two ghost images trailing motion (although this could be obscured by high shutter time, which looks equally bad).

You have been scammed by the movie industry. "Film look" is not an artistic choice, it's a cost cutting measure.

>>2978098
>most games made are 30fps
Most on-topic /vr/ games are 60fps.

>>2978101
>A lot of CRT PAL tvs went over 100Hz
Motion interpolation is completely unsuitable for gaming, because of the added latency and artifacts. Frame duplication also adds latency (although less so than motion interpolation), and harms motion quality by causing trailing ghost images generated by the sample mechanism as sample and hold blur.
>>
>>2978109
> Most on-topic /vr/ games are 60fps.
this doesnt change the fact that most games are 30fps and look great. 50fps and 60fps look even better than 30fps.
>>
>>2978109
No classic movie projectors are 48Hz. 72Hz is a new thing of digital projectors.

Besides 24hz looks great. If it would look bad no one would watch 24fps movies and find them bothersome like americans do with pal crts.
I love zelda ocarina of time with its 22-25 fps and it never bothered me.
You are obviously a graphics/frame rate whore judging from the way you talk.
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>50hz
>>
Undeniable proof that high persistence phosphors do not solve the problem of PAL flicker.
1. Get an unstrobed LCD that can sync to both 100Hz and 120Hz (or disable the strobing on a strobed one). Most 144fps LCDs will do this.
2. Install MPV.
3. Get a 60fps 1280x720 video (other resolutions will work if you adjust the corresponding numbers).
4. Switch monitor to 120Hz.
5. Run:
mpv '--vf=expand=2560:720:0,lavfi="fps=120,crop=1280:in_h:1280*mod\(n\,2\)"' --video-sync=display-resample 60fps_video.webm
You should get consistent software BFI with 50% frame time persistence (higher than any "high persistence" phosphor used in a consumer TV). Note that the flicker is mildly annoying, but you can put up with it because there's no other way to get high motion quality at low latency from 60fps content.
6. Now switch the monitor to 100Hz, and run:
mpv '--vf=expand=2560:720:0,lavfi="fps=100,crop=1280:in_h:1280*mod\(n\,2\)"' --video-sync=display-resample 60fps_video.webm
Note how the flicker is almost literally nauseating. It's completely unacceptable. And this is *less* flickery than a PAL CRT because of the higher persistence.

That anon posting bullshit about PAL phosphors is proven wrong.
>>
>>2978128
>ntsc
>>
>>2978134
>using either NTSC or PAL color encoding
60Hz RGB > 60Hz PAL > 60Hz NTSC > 50Hz RGB > 50Hz PAL
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>>2978132
I have a 24/50hz/60hz lcd and it does not flicker nor is 24hz. you are obviously talking out of your ass.

My laptop is 100/120hz led and it also doesnt flicker. you're an idiot.
>>
>>2978138
>using analog 60Hz rgb when you could use digital 120Hz rec.2020
>>
>>2978140
>I have a 24/50hz/60hz lcd and it does not flicker nor is 24hz. you are obviously talking out of your ass.
Sample and hold blur is even worse. You're the idiot here, failing to understand the purpose of flicker.
>>
>>2978149
i never see any blur or flicker. you are obviously an autist with some kind of problem. enjoy your flicker crt
>>
>>2978145
The vast majority of /vr/ games do not support 120fps. And of those that do, they also support 144fps, which is even better than your option.
>>
>>2978152
Literally millions of Americans don't see anything wrong with 3:2 pulldown. That doesn't make them correct, it means they have low standards.
>>
>>2978158
144fps doesnt make sense because i dont play shitty fps. 120fps is all i need. who cares if there are not 120fps vr games. 120hz rec.2020 is still superior than 60hz rgb. that is a fact. suck it up.

>>2978165
you're an autist who needs to see a doctor. get an uhdtv.
>>
>>2978132
You seem to be going to extreme lengths to be full of shit. I don't know who you're trying to convince or why. You can't just pull up and pull down a refresh rate like 60fps without compromising it. Here's a clue - 60 doesn't divide into 50. You're introducing all sorts of things there. Sad you would take the time and have supposed use of those commands and yet have no clue what you're doing. When people are talking about "PAL flicker" they generally are talking about doing some nasty-ass conversion like you are, NOT something that's natively at 50Hz which looks perfectly fine.

In some consoles like the dreamcast and PS2 you can actually switch the refresh rate from 50Hz or 60Hz because the vast majority of PAL tvs could do 60Hz. When you look at the difference, there is some difference but it's really minimal... and the vast majority of PAL tvs after the 1990s are above 50Hz.
>>
>>2978169
>144fps doesnt make sense because i dont play shitty fps.
Can you even name a single non-FPS with 120fps support? (such games do exist)

>120hz rec.2020 is still superior than 60hz rgb
Obviously, it's just of little relevance to /vr/.

>get an uhdtv
Also irrelevant to PAL vs NTSC. There is no technical solution to 50Hz gaming. You unavoidably have at least one of flicker, sample and hold blur, or high latency. This is how human biology works. The same is true of 60Hz, but at least 60Hz flicker looks a lot less disgusting.
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>>2978180
>You can't just pull up and pull down a refresh rate like 60fps without compromising it
I'm not doing that, I'm just adjusting the frame times. Try it yourself, MPV slows the audio to match. Any glitches in software BFI are extremely obvious (you see bright or dark flashes), and this does not happen.

>NOT something that's natively at 50Hz which looks perfectly fine.
Wrong. The 2nd common perfectly replicates native 50Hz on an (unnaturally) high persistence PAL CRT.

>When you look at the difference, there is some difference but it's really minimal
It's huge.
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>>2978132
This doesn't make sense.
Are you stupid?
>120hz mode plays 60fps video=flicker free
>100hz mode plays 60fps video = flicker
wow, you are really smart.
literally retarded. you have to play a 50fps in 100hz mode. I can literally make the same claim by playing a 50fps in 120hz but I would never do that because i'm not that stupid.
>>
>>2978190
>slowing down
>flicker=stutter

get a real 50fps you jackass
>>
>>2978015

So the music on the Petrified Australian Latency version is actually speed up instead of slowed down? That's some bizarro world shit.

Also, you haven't replied about how the physics are better on the Petrified Australian Latency version.
>>
>>2978187
>>2978194
MPV is dropping frames in the 100Hz test, which harms motion quality but does not affect flicker. Any flicker caused by the frame rate mismatch is *extremely* obvious because of software BFI (try the either test at the wrong refresh rate to see what it looks like).
>>
>>2978132
>>2978190
You are not slowing down the 60fps you idiot
The code says
>RESAMPLE
You know what resample does? It adds missing and uneven frames by repeating them and makes videos choppy. you fucking idiot. if you want to slow down a video in mpv you have to use --speed for slow down.
do your homework. jeez. this really triggered me.
>>
>>2978203
>You know what resample does? It adds missing and uneven frames by repeating them and makes videos choppy. you fucking idiot.
It resamples the *audio*.

>if you want to slow down a video in mpv you have to use --speed for slow down
This breaks ffmpeg's soft BFI.

If you actually want to see slowed down 60fps->50fps, then add:
--fps=50 --no-correct-pts --video-sync=display-desync
This causes the audio to desync which is irrelevant.
>>
>>2978197
>>2978210
If you want to correctly sync a 60fps to 100hz by slowing it down use Reclock.
YOu can't install? So you use linux? Talk me again when you tried your experience on windows. linux sucks for video - everyone knows that.

>using linux
>complaining about flicker
>>
>>2978210
And note that the 50Hz flicker in this case is literally identical to the original commandline.
>>
>>2978214
hey dude use a real 50 clip.
>>
>>2978213
>If you want to correctly sync a 60fps to 100hz by slowing it down use Reclock.
Literally inferior to MPV's display-sync options, because it's only higan style static syncing.

>linux sucks for video
>complaining about flicker
>implying the OS has any relevance to human biology

>>2978219
That's what --fps=50 --no-correct-pts --video-sync=display-desync does.
>>
Undeniable proof that high persistence phosphors do not solve the problem of NTSC flicker.
1. Get an unstrobed LCD that can sync to both 100Hz and 120Hz (or disable the strobing on a strobed one). Most 144fps LCDs will do this.
2. Install MPV.
3. Get a 50fps 1280x720 video (other resolutions will work if you adjust the corresponding numbers).
4. Switch monitor to 100Hz.
5. Run:
mpv '--vf=expand=2560:720:0,lavfi="fps=120,crop=1280:in_h:1280*mod\(n\,2\)"' --video-sync=display-resample 60fps_video.webm
You should get consistent software BFI with 50% frame time persistence (higher than any "high persistence" phosphor used in a consumer TV). Note that the flicker is mildly annoying, but you can put up with it because there's no other way to get high motion quality at low latency from 60fps content.
6. Now switch the monitor to 120Hz, and run:
mpv '--vf=expand=2560:720:0,lavfi="fps=100,crop=1280:in_h:1280*mod\(n\,2\)"' --video-sync=display-resample 60fps_video.webm
Note how the flicker is almost literally nauseating. It's completely unacceptable. And this is *less* flickery than a NTSC CRT because of the higher persistenc
>>
>>2978223
>Undeniable proof that high persistence phosphors do not solve the problem of NTSC flicker.
I'm not sure what your failed copypaste is trying to prove. I never claimed they did. NTSC flicker is also unfixable in the context of games. But the point is NTSC flicker is a much less serious problem than PAL flicker.
>>
>>2978221
>That's what --fps=50 --no-correct-pts --video-sync=display-desync does.
no use a real 50fps clip not a 60fps changes to 50fps.

so you have linux? oh okay that's why it flickers.
talk me again if you have tried it with reclock. or just use a real 50fps
what you can't repeat your experiment with a real 50fps clip? oh ok.
>>
>>2978231
crt flicker sucks. oled is better
>>
>>2978232
>no use a real 50fps clip not a 60fps changes to 50fps.
It literally is a 50fps clip. --no-correct-pts makes MPV ignore the frame timing in the video.

>so you have linux? oh okay that's why it flickers.
No, it flickers because it's flashing on and off at 60Hz or 50Hz. This is intentional. It is simulating a CRT, although with higher persistence. You can do the exact same thing on any OS. There are no dropped frames, and any dropped frames are extremely obvious in software BFI. Note how the 60Hz flicker looks much better than the 50Hz flicker.

>>2978236
You must have either flicker, high latency, or sample and hold blur. There is no getting around this. Because blur and latency are unacceptable, flicker is the only option. And because 50hz flicker is unacceptable, 60Hz or faster is the only option.

The only time flicker is not the correct choice is the case of low framerate games, where you might as well pick sample and hold blur because the motion quality will be very bad no matter what.
>>
>>2978181
>Can you even name a single non-FPS with 120fps support? (such games do exist)
most modern games support 120fps. besides you can playback all old 30 and 60fps games.
But its not about that its about compatibility with 24fps. its the ultimate tv mode. play 24,30,60 and 120fps games all in once. 144fps mode sucks and is just for fps gamers -which i hate- you still have to switch mode for all other content, but at least 144 is also compatible with 24fps for movies - that is good.yet 120hz is superior imo.

>Obviously, it's just of little relevance to /vr/.
Still makes 120hz rec.2020 the superior choice

>Also irrelevant to PAL vs NTSC
No UHDTV with rec.2020 and 100hz or 120hz solves all your white struggle.
>>
>>2978231
How can you not understand what his post is showing? "failed copypaste" huh? Just stop, admit you're full of shit and stfu.
>>
>>2978256
>most modern games support 120fps
This is /vr/.

>No UHDTV with rec.2020 and 100hz or 120hz solves all your white struggle.
The fundamental problem is that consoles output fixed 50Hz or 60Hz. There is no technical solution to this that is suitable for gaming.

>>2978261
He didn't even copy all of it, so "failed". And he then edited it to demonstrate something I never disagreed with. Of course NTSC flicker is problem too. It's just a much smaller one than PAL flicker.
>>
>>2978268
>This is /vr/.
It doesnt matter. it's still fact.

>The fundamental problem is that consoles output fixed 50Hz or 60Hz. There is no technical solution to this that is suitable for gaming.
100 and 120hz display 50hz and 60hz games natively

> edited it to demonstrate something I never disagreed with
your posts didnt make any sense in the first place
>>
>>2978247
>It literally is a 50fps clip. --no-correct-pts makes MPV ignore the frame timing in the video.
it isnt the source clearly says 60fps. you are dumb af

>No, it flickers because
Linux

>You must have either flicker, high latency, or sample and hold blur.
I have UHDTV OLED 120hz master race
>>
>>2978283
>100 and 120hz display 50hz and 60hz games natively
In which case they have the same problems as native 50Hz and 60Hz displays. You still have to pick one out of flicker, blur or latency.

CRT or similar strobed display: flicker
Unstrobed LCD or OLED: sample and hold blur
Frame duplicated display: ghost trails (a special case of sample and hold blur)
Motion interpolated display: High latency and artifacts

Those are literally all the possible types of displays.

>it isnt the source clearly says 60fps. you are dumb af
No, it says "50". The timing in the video is ignored.

>I have UHDTV OLED 120hz master race
It can't solve the problems of console games, and it doesn't even have true 120Hz input.
>>
>>2978302
>In which case they have the same problems as native 50Hz and 60Hz displays
yes, but the technology in use is better.

>No, it says "50". The timing in the video is ignored.
no you download a 60fps clip and timed it to 50. use a real 50fps clip or else your claims are worthless. post new code with real 50fps and screenshots

>It can't solve the problems of console games, and it doesn't even have true 120Hz input.
it is still superior than rgb 60hz
>>
>>2978294
>>No, it flickers because
>Linux
It deliberately flickers because I'm frame doubling and blacking out every other frame. That's what the lavfi command is doing. The flicker is perfect with each black/image frame being shown for exactly one display refresh.

>>2978309
>post new code with real 50fps and screenshots
>screenshots
It is impossible to screenshot flicker.

>it is still superior than rgb 60hz
Obviously. But this is irrelevant to console gaming. The console does not have 120Hz support. If the display framedoubles or interpolates then you get the problems previously described. 60Hz is bad. 50Hz is worse. If you insist on using original hardware there is nothing you can do about this. (for emulation, there are 120fps hacks, but AFAIK not for /vr/ consoles).
>>
>>2978318
>It deliberately flickers because
Linux

>It is impossible to screenshot flicker.
that's not what i meant. post screenshot that show the original unaltered by software framerate of the source clip. like you can look up with mediainfo and screenshot it.

>Obviously.
Then there is nothing more to be said.
>>
>>2978328
>original unaltered by software framerate of the source clip
Link a short PAL test clip

>Then there is nothing more to be said.
No, because this is a PAL vs NTSC thread. PAL != NTSC, therefore one of the two is better. Just because there exist better standards does not make them equal.
>>
>>2978132
What the fuck, dude. This isn't even remotely a "proof" of anything. It's nice you use mpv, yes, but come on.
>>
>>2978334
>Link it
do it yourself. who am I? your nanny? like its a hard thing to find.
>>
>>2978339
If you try it you will see the major difference in flicker yourself.
>>
>>2978346
Of course you'll see weird stuff buy doing that. This isn't a fucking proof.
>>
>>2978349
There is nothing weird going on. It's just software BFI. You can do the same thing in RetroArch if you prefer.
>>
>>2978356
>software BFI
try hardware first and windows
>>
>>2978360
>try hardware first
You just proved yourself to be an idiot. The whole point of it being software is to disprove the "European phosphors prevent PAL flicker" myth. Hardware BFI would be lower persistence so it would not prove anything.

>windows
Makes literally zero difference, because no frames are being dropped or duped. If you had ever used software BFI before, which you obviously haven't, you would know how obvious it is when frames are dropped/duped.
>>
>>2978368
but you can use the internal hardware bfi of the lcd which is not the same the ones crt,

software bfi just proves that you are an idiot trying to prove something that it not true.
>>
>>2978368
Hi, >>2978360 isn't me. I'm >>2978349.
>>
>lose FPS
>gain some useless rows of pixels that are irrelevant gameplay, usually just repeated ground tiles

Nah
>>
>>2978384
DVD
>gain FPS
>gain a lot of resolution, almost like 720p.
>no pulldown
>but ugly pitched speed up audio.-that sucks.
BUT YEAH1!!

pal is superior
>>
>>2978376
>you can use the internal hardware bfi of the lcd
No you cannot because the persistence is too low. It has to software BFI to replicate the mythical "European phospors". If your LCD has hardware strobing/BFI you must turn it off or the result is invalid.

What I have successfully proved is that 50% frame time persistence does not prevent flicker, and this is higher than any phosphor used in consumer CRT TVs, so "European phosphors didn't flicker" is a lie.
>>
>>2978394
you have proved nothing as your example is faulty to begin with as you cannot even provide a real 50fps clip. moron.
>>
>>2978394
>What I have successfully proved
lol'd
yeah you keep believing that shit boy, I give up on you
>>
>>2978390
In the case of DVDs showing 24fps/25fps, I agree. This is the low framerate case previously mentioned.

>>2978403
I already did. If you insist on calling the MPV devs liars, I will download alternative examples. You must be patient because my country has shit internet connections.
>>
>>2978406
>high persistence phosphors supposedly make PAL flicker invisible
>test it with low persistence strobing!
Great job retard
>>
>>2978407
you didnt you download a 60fps clip and asked for a 50fps clip because you are moron.

i
>>
>>2978417
>--fps=50 --no-correct-pts --video-sync=display-desync
It's literally 50fps. But for idiots like you, I am currently downloading new test files.
>>
>>2978423
>--fps=50 --no-correct-pts --video-sync=display-desync
>60fps_video.webm
fucking moron
>>
File: NTSCvsPAL.png (109 KB, 659x822) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
NTSCvsPAL.png
109 KB, 659x822
>>2978429
Read the MPV docs, moron.

But it is irrelevant now. NTSC example:
http://www.gvgdevelopers.com/K2DevGuide/Clips2/NTSC_720p_MPEG_LGOP_colorbar.gxf
Switch to 120Hz refresh, disable hardware BFI/strobing, command line is:
mpv -v --aid=no '--vf=expand=2560:720:0,lavfi="fps=119.88012,crop=1280:in_h:1280*mod\(n\,2\)"' --video-sync=display-adrop NTSC_SD_MPEG_LGOP_colorbar.gxf

http://www.gvgdevelopers.com/K2DevGuide/Clips2/PAL_720p_MPEG_LGOP_colorbar.gxf
(despite the container reported 100fps, this is genuine PAL 50p. I suspect MPV or FFMPEG bug with the reported 100fps. It works perfectly anyway if audio is disabled.)
Switch to 100Hz, disable hardware BFI/strobing, command line is:
mpv -v --aid=no '--vf=expand=2560:720:0,lavfi="fps=100,crop=1280:in_h:1280*mod\(n\,2\)"' --video-sync=display-adrop PAL_720p_MPEG_LGOP_colorbar.gxf

This demonstration looks identical to my previous example, which is not surprising because --fps=50 --no-correct-pts is also genuine 50fps.
>>
>>2978484
http://www.gvgdevelopers.com/K2DevGuide/Clips2/PAL_720p_MPEG_LGOP_colorbar.mxf
This one correctly reports 50.000000fps, so any potential argument is now BTFO.
>>
>>2978484
>>2978513
try on windows with reclock
>>
>>2978536
>confirmed for never trying software BFI
It is not some subtle flaw when software BFI has incorrect timing. Is is a very major and obvious fuckup. There is no other video signal in which dropped/duped frames are so obvious. If your eyes are open and you are looking at the screen you *will* see them. And MPV does not drop/dupe frames with this setup. There is literally no reason to install Windows to accomplish something that will be frame-for-frame identical (assuming Reclock can also avoid dropped/duped frames).
>>
>PAL
-50hz
-The games that were fixed specifically for pal are still inferior to their 60 fps versions, 60 will always be a larger number than 50
+slightly higher resolution

>NTSC
-lower resolution
-slightly worse picture than PAL if you use composite or s-video
+60hz
+just use rgb instead of composhit or s-video
>>
What the fuck are you trying to even prove? That your cock and bullshit video edit somehow demonstrates everything in 50Hz we have ever seen suffered from horrific flickering that we never noticed until you told us about it? I mean what sort of retard are you?
>>
>>2978570
100% correct.

>>2978571
50Hz does suffer from horrific flickering. 60Hz also suffers from flickering, but not horrific. Somebody claimed European phosphors are higher persistence so they hide the flickering. This does not match any PAL CRT TV I have seen, but it is theoretically possible I have only seen unusual PAL CRT TVs. I demonstrated that software BFI, with higher persistence than any plausible consumer TV phosphor, does not hide flicker, so the claim is false. This is consistent with the lack of sample-and-hold blur visible on PAL CRT TVs.
>>
Think I'll stick with my almost 100 extra lines of resolution and better colours than your imaginary flickering.
>>
>>2978608
It's plausible that some people can't see 60Hz flicker. It's completely unbelievable that people can't see 50Hz flicker. If you can't see 50Hz flicker that suggests there is no flicker, which is extremely bad. That means you either have sample and hold blur or motion interpolation, neither of which are acceptable for games (with the exception of low framerate games, where you always have bad motion quality so it doesn't really matter).
>>
>>2963639
>phosphors had longer persistence in PAL TV sets, to make up for the slower refresh rate.

Maybe this is why I notice less flicker on my PAL CRT at 50Hz versus my PC CRT at 60Hz. Who knew?
>>
>>2978824
It's false. 50% frame time persistence software BFI (higher than any phosphor used in ordinary TVs) still has extremely obvious flicker. More likely the difference is in screen size, content viewed, ambient lighting or viewing distance.
>>
>>2963801
The irony is you've posted a game which was ported very well to PAL systems.
>>
>>2968997
And yet I thought absolutely nothing of it until I played the NTSC version in an emulator.
>>
>>2978848
Same here actually. Sonic seems to be the only game I've noticed it on though.
>>
>>2978824
Yes. Same thing here. My PC CRT is a Trinitron yet flickers a lot in 60Hz, while my cheap 50hz TV sets are fine.
>>
>>2978831
Dude, just shut the fuck up.
>>
>>2963194

> PAL

yep, you guys got cucked.
>>
>>2978016
>>Movies look fine at 24fps
>Movies look like shit at 24fps. Thanks for proving you're an idiot.
Every major movie in the last decade expect for the Hobbit trilogy was shot in 24p, I wonder where you're getting all your 60fps content
>>
>>2979423
>yep, you guys got cucked.

Yeah we only got way better picture quality and no bullshit telecines on movies.

video games running 17.5% slower is literally the only downside of PAL, and they fixed that with the Dreamcast allowing nearly every game to run at PAL60.
Thread replies: 247
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