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>Every single top 10 PlayStation games...
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>Every single top 10 PlayStation games of all time list
>#1 Metal Gear Solid

>Every single top Nintendo 64 games of all time list
>#1 Ocarina of Time
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Well at least they're good games.
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>>2944419

>Someone makes a list without Ocarina as the #1 game
>"Stop being such a contrarian hipster."
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>>2944419
both of them are on there for a reason
maybe shouldn't be number one but they deserve a spot
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What would you put up instead OP?
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>>2944419
I feel like at this point top 10 lists should be
top 10 games aside from those ones that everyone puts in their top 10 lists". If they just rule out those games from the start, no one is going to bitch if they aren't put at the top.
I'm sick of every top NES games list losing 5 slots to the same games. We all know Zelda, Mario 3, Castlevania and Mega Man are great games. We don't need every top 10 list to remind us.
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If MGS had no sequels it would NEVER have been considered the best Playstation game.
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>>2944547
Are you sure about that? It was pretty revolutionary and critically acclaimed for its time.
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It bothers me that all top ten lists even for retro games give massive points to revolutionary games even though it may have been revolutionary at the time it no longer is...

I think both Crystallis and Willow are better than LoZ1 but they are placed on the top of the lists out of respect, not quality.
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>>2944537
I think that they should reserve half a spot for "classic top 10 games"

0.5 Ocarina of Time, 007: Goldeneye, Super Mario 64, etc

1. Jet Force Gemini
2. etc

So the list is still out of 10, but it lets people get more creative with their picks.
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>>2944557
It wouldn't have stayed relevant, everyone and their mom would have forgotten about it
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Screw Ocarina. Seriously. It marked such a decrease in quality in the Zelda series, putting so much emphasis on "story" and "visual appeal" over the raw, pure dungeon crawling of the older ones. Majora's Mask had the same flaw, but the time limit helped masking the horrid void the maps were, and that includes the dungeons. 75% empty air space. Huge distances without as much as a fight coming out. At least in Majora you can have a few extra abilities and you are usually in a rush to get somewhere. But god help you if you rank Majora higher than Ocarina. The fans will rip you a new hole before you can say "But I sincerely liked it more".

Ocarina's only achievement was becoming the gold standard of the series, the one to keep parroting endlessly. New games aren't sequels to Zelda, they are sequels to Ocarina, and share its biggest flaws for it.

You like Ocarina? Fine. But if you don't understand why people might not consider it perfect, you might be a fanboi.
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>>2945038
>over the raw, pure dungeon crawling of the older ones
Even Link to the Past? The game OoT borrowed most of its elements from?
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>>2945038
I will never understand people that bitch about games telling stories. Y'all some backward-ass hillbilly motherfuckers.
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>>2944514

Not OP, but my top 10 list:

>10: My Disney Kitchen
>9: Alice on Borderlines
>8: All Star Watersports
>7: No One Can Stop Mr. Domino
>6: Doko Demo Isshyo Tsuika Disk: Koneko Mo Isshyo
>5: Eggs of Steel: Charlie's Eggcellent Adventure
>4: Hyouryuu Ki: The Reportage Beyond the Sea
>3: Sitting Ducks
>2: FoxKids.com Micro Maniacs Racing
>1: Metal Gear Solid
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>>2944537
I'd do it. Is there any site where I could publish such a list where it would also get more than 2 page views?
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>>2945020

Yeah so. That's like saying top 10 genesis games aren't actually top 10 because the franchises never moved onto another console.
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>>2945137
You call that bitching? Okay. Fine. Sorry.

I have no problem whatsoever about games telling stories, but it was not the type of game to turn into some grand intergenerational epic across space and time. And despite the focus on story, the story itself is actually kind of utilitarian.
The problem I have with Zelda's story is the lack of commitment. It doesn't matter if you get attached to a specific version of Link or Zelda or Ganon/Ganondorf, because the next game will pull a "hero of time" and make completely new blank slates out of them, with name and appearance being the only connection. When LttP did it, it was a new thing, but then every game (barring a few exceptions) they pull the plug and reset everything, everyone has a different background, and so on. You can't say continuity is well-defined there. It's a huge patchwork. None of your efforts in the story have lasting effects, because the story needs a Link and a Zelda and often a Ganon(dorf) appearance to satisfy fans.

Ironically, saving for Awakening, every one that tried to continue the story of a particular incarnation of Link has been hideously underrated.

>>2945132
Yeah, even Link to the Past. The overworld was much richer in content, with the dark world adding an extra layer to it, and the dungeons were more involved. You didn't need a horse to move across empty plains in there. But in Ocarina, there is a lot of dead space between landmarks or even fights. That's why I have more respect for Majora, because that empty space sort of counted as an obstacle, specially before you memorize the layout.
Sure, it's much harder to pack as much content in a 3D space, but as technology improved, they increased the size, but not the density.

Again, it's fine if you like it, but come on. It's not perfect, and it's true a ton of people will tear you a new ass if you dare say it's not the second coming of Jesus.
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>>2945187
>micro maniacs above eggs of steel

Fite me
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>>2945038
Nigga...Termina is like half the size of OoT's Hyrule. Majora's levels are the most compact 3D environments.
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>>2944419
I happen to agree with those choices. Metal Gear Solid was the first great console game with full voice-overs and movie like qualities. It also made stealth a thing, by letting you lean up against walls and peak around the corners. No other game [in development, including Tenchu] was doing this.

Ocarina of Time is essentially every 3D adventure game we now play. And its lock-on targeting, that allowed you to move Link while locked-on that is, revolutionized the industry.
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>>2944956
Jet Force Gemini could have been a great game if not for mandatory Tribals.
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>>2945803
>Metal Gear Solid was the first great console game with full voice-overs and movie like qualities
This is precisely why I didn't like it. It seemed more like a movie than a game. I didn't own a PS1 as a kid, but I had a friend try and show me this game, and 75% of the time he was just watching cutscenes, and it bored the fuck out of me. Even at 12-years-old, I knew that was putting the cart before the horse. I blame it for the trend that caused gameplay to become the afterthought that it is today.

>Ocarina of Time is essentially every 3D adventure game we now play. And its lock-on targeting, that allowed you to move Link while locked-on that is, revolutionized the industry.
This is also true. The shit Ocarina came up with is taken for granted nowadays. The fact that the development team was essentially writing the rulebook as they went, and still managed to knock it out of the park, is pretty astounding. Same with Mario 64. Ocarina has a few kinks in it, but most of those are very trivial, or were worked out with the 3DS remake.

The other contender for best PS1 game is probably FF7, while it did nothing revolutionary, it was just a damn fine RPG and certainly had an impact. Symphony of The Night is often on these lists, but never at #1, despite the fact that it was great, and evolved the "Metroidvania" style of gameplay. I wouldn't be surprised if people have some sort of stigma about saying that a 2-D, sprite-based game is the best.
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>>2944537
>I'm sick of every top NES games list losing 5 slots to the same games.

NES is 30 years old. Over time people have susses out which were the best games. Of course those are going to get mentioned when asked for the best games.
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>>2945038
Damn. The storytelling in Ocarina isn't even that prevalent. You act like it's become an interactive movie. Most of the game is still dungeon crawling. The game has a few unskippable cutscenes but it's not like they completely override everything else.

>>2945275
Oh, you're autistic. I'm sorry.
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>>2945986
There's way more gameplay in MGS than cut-scenes, anon. I know some of the modern-day games you are talking about were gameplay takes a backseat to cinema. Metal Gear Solid is nothing like that. It does have cut-scenes, but gameplay is still the biggest part of the game.

And I definitely agree with Symphony of the Night being 'pound for pound' the best PSone game. It just never gets the number one spot, because of the influence set by Final Fantasy 7 and Metal Gear Solid, like you pointed out.

Mega Man Legends is the most underrated PSone game. It featured lock-on targeting, and a GTA sandbox-like world. The gameplay is fast and addictive, the characters are fun, and the weapon crafting is a real time sink.
If you haven't played it, I recommend it hardcore.
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>>2945137
>>2945137
People have been bitching about that since the Atari -> NES days. Arcade babbies don't want to read or immerse themselves.
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>>2944419
Yeah, it's like the consoles are dead and no new games are being released on them.
They're the best games of their consoles, but they don't have to be the only ones you play, or even the ones you personally like the best.

Why the fuck would you give a shit about top 10 lists anyway? Even the Academy Awards, the single most famous toplist in entertainment, are a fucking joke.
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>>2945197
Oh man, anon, I don't know. Fuckin' tumblr? Or put it in a video with you pulling a stupid face with video game tits behind you in the thumbnail and a clickbaity title like "You won't BELIEVE these top 10 NES games - #2 will make you shit your pants!"
>>2945991
Yeah man, I know. But that's the point - everyone has already sussedd out those games. We don't need to see them top lists again and again. Make a mention of them to keep the autists at bay, sure. But there's no harm in mentioning some different games. Top 10 obscure game lists are good for forcing some creativity, but if someone well-known enough does it, it just drives up prices on those games.
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>>2945275
>it was not the type of game to turn into some grand intergenerational epic across space and time.

But Link to the Past and Link's Awakening are just fine.
Dimension hopping and debatable dream sequences are A-OK. It's time travel that makes the whole thing too deep for its own good.

You're an idiot.
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>>2945275
I misunderstood you. Sorry duder. I thought you were one of those "durr games can't have stories that's a waste of time" goobers that skip cutscenes.
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>>2945986
>. It seemed more like a movie than a game. I didn't own a PS1 as a kid, but I had a friend try and show me this game, and 75% of the time he was just watching cutscenes

You are entirely full of shit. MGS was not MGS4.
Final Fantasy VII had a worse cutscene-to-gameplay ratio.
>>
That's why I think lists are bullshit. The less worse are the ones which shows the best games in determined year.
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>>2947018
I mean, if his friend was a dumb ass and showed him like, the elevator scene on the way back with the PAL key and Naomi, then yeah, he picked a shitty part.

MGS1 has a lot of expository dialogue thrown at you via codec usually after a boss fight or something similar. The game is like ~3 hours of pure gameplay, the rest of the 8 hours or so you'd get out of it is purely cutscene and codec conversations.

MGS4 is like 3-4 hours of gameplay, and like 15 hours of cutscenes. The finale is 2 hours long. I don't know what the fuck Bideo Kojimer was thinking with that.
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>>2944419

Those are both in my top 3 favorite games ever.
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>>2947043
>MGS4 is like 3-4 hours of gameplay, and like 15 hours of cutscenes
nice meme
MGS1: ~30% of cutscenes
MGS4: ~50%
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>>2947018
>>2947043
>>2947056
Metal Gear Solid 4 is not retro. Fuck off.
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>>2947043
There are a lot of people, myself included, that love that aspect of MGS4.

isn't it weird how people can have different opinions and interests?? Watch me get flamed for this anyway. Never change, /vr/.
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>>2947142
It is people like you who are trying to change /vr/ with your non-retro bullshit
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>>2947130
>>2947153
Jesus Christ, people are allowed to MENTION non-retro games. Fuck off, nazi.
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>>2947272
No you fucking aren't this is a #safespace for people who are #neverlandeverchildren, mentioning any events post 9-11 will trigger us.
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>Nobody showin' love to Goemon. Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon mihht very well be my favorite N64 game of all time.
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>>2947331

Same here, they were never really popular in the west, but the people who have played them know they're amazing.

I'm still not sure if I like MNsG or GGA better. GGA is pretty much flawless on all fronts since it's a sidescroller and has god-tier co-op multiplayer (even 4 players simultaneous), but I enjoyed the journey and the story of Starring Goemon more.
Anyway, both are on my top 10 N64 games for sure, and pretty high too, like on the top 5.
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Star Fox 64 and Paper Mario are my favorite N64 games, yet I never see them top any lists.
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Who would have an easier time: Link trying to defeat REX, or Snake trying to defeat Ganondorf?
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>>2947474

This is kind of like those "Goku vs Superman" nerd hypotetical things, but I'd say Link would have an easier time, he has bombs, bombchus, etc, I'm not sure how well would Snake fare against Ganon, even Link might have not defeated him without the help of Zelda, the sages and the triforce of courage.
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>>2947474
Unless Snake has the Master Sword, he has no chance.
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>>2947571
Ganon is no match for a Stinger.
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>no one posted the REAL GOAT of the PSX library.
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My favorite N64 game is Ogre Battle 64.
My favorite PS1 game is Kartia: The World of Fate.

Who cares about lists or the opinions of some other idiot on the internet?
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>>2944434
how is that possible when the n64 had barely any games
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>>2944434
Welcome to the age of meta-hipsters. It's a vicious cycle which can only be broken by stop giving a fuck.
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>>2947272
You didn't merely mention the game. You were discussing it, asshole.
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>>2947346
LoMN is legitimately the favorite Goemon game. I tried to give GGA a shot, I honestly & truly did. It just failed to grab me though. I'm more disappointed in myself than the game over that.
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>>2947905
OHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>reaching new levels of pedantry
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>>2947905
>>2947153
>>2947130

Jesus christ you guys are butthurt
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>>2947043
>The game is like ~3 hours of pure gameplay, the rest of the 8 hours or so you'd get out of it is purely cutscene and codec conversations.
And you people are defending this?
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>>2946946
Thanks anon, I will put it on the list.

Growing up, I didn't have a PS1 and wasn't into RPGs, so it's funny that my new PS1 collection is like, 90% RPGs right now. MML will be nice to add some variety to the bunch. I always liked the look of this game, too.
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>>2945205
Shut the fuck up.

This thread isn't even that bad, despite OP's obvious bait.
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>>2945205
We don't need people like you policing threads like you're in charge of the board. If you don't like it, you can hide it. But shut the fuck up telling me what to do.
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>>2945803
>[this Zelda mechanic] revolutionized the industry.

Can we stop saying huge things like this as if they are facts?

I said, standing up to one Zelda fanboy, little did I know I'd be revolutionizing the way 4chan operates.
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>Top ten hardest NES games list
>Lists always only include games AVGN covered and rip his reasons off verbatim
>Battletoads is always #1
>>
>>2949383
AVGN didn't come up with the list himself. He's just another in a line of people. Battletoads has been talked about like that long before he had a channel.
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>>2944547
I read magazines that called it the best video game ever, way before the MGS2 demo was released
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>>2949391
I'm talking about shit like Silver Surfer which definitely wouldn't be on any lists if AVGN didn't cover it.
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>>2945020
Relevant to what exactly?
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>>2949401
>>2949391
I'm sure those lists wouldn't even exist if AVGN didn't show up at all. Without AVGN, things like Silver Surfer are really diving deep unless you're curious
>>
>>2949416
I've never watched an AVGN episode, but I remember hardest games lists before there was a youtube.
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>>2948821
Fuck off with your non-retro bullshit.
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>>2945803
the radar kinda makes peeking worthless, but u can play without radar
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>>2946946
actually if you know what you're doing the cutscenes and codecs take longer than the gameplay
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>>2944419

Kind of ambivalent on OoT, but I'm definitely with you re:MGS.

Twice this month I've tried to play through that abortion, and both times I've given up at or shortly after the ninja.
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>>2947043
>Talking about MGS4 on /vr/

You're disgusting
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>>2950026
I like your glasses. :D

Need to work on your respect for rules, however. If you want to discuss non-retro games, they are other boards for that.
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>>2950050
>Talks about a pure trash modern game that is mostly cut-scenes
>Claims I'm shitting up the board

I'm sorry you hate retro games.
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>>2950063
Easily one of the best games of all time, but you're the one shitposting. Back to /v/, they love venomous hatred and toxic negativity over there. Keep it there. You're tracking mud on our carpet.
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>>2950321
I'm not gonna be baited into talking about your shitty half-game, half-movie. (It's a shame you hate gameplay.) But if you're just trolling, then well played.
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>there are people who don't have Suikoden 2, Breath of Fire 3, and Brave Fencer Musashi on their favorite PS1 games list
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>>2950619
>there are people that pretend to like this insufferable weeb shit for disgusting children

Underage get out
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>>2950606
Not that anon, but I'll never understand you "I HATE STORY" kiddies. Y'all some backward-ass hillbilly motherfuckers. I can't imagine a more low brow and simple minded attitude. And imposing your shit-brained opinion on other people as a law shows that you're mentally if not literally a child. I bet you skip cutscenes too, you autistic fuck.
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>>2946946
>Mega Man Legends is the most underrated PSone game.
Bullshit.
>>
>>2945275
>It doesn't matter if you get attached to a specific version of Link or Zelda or Ganon/Ganondorf, because the next game will pull a "hero of time" and make completely new blank slates out of them, with name and appearance being the only connection.

Dude, the series is called "The LEGEND of Zelda". They're supposed to be LEGENDS. Legends are stories passed down through the ages, with details changing with each new telling. Of course the characters are particularly fleshed out. Each teller gives the characters different attributes. All we need to know is that Link is courageous, Zelda is wise, and Ganon is powerful. There you go, simplified character traits suitable for oral history.
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>>2950897
> Of course the characters are particularly fleshed out.

*aren't
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>>2945986
>I knew that was putting the cart before the horse
the PS used CDs
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>>2946975
>read
show, don't tell

>immerse
got nothing to do with story
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>>2947640
>Kartia: The World of Fate
why?
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>>2949380
It's also not even true. The modern lock on system evolved from Tomb Raider, only a few games actually copied the Z targeting. Now Mario 64 was really influential, Ocarina not that much.
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>>2950928
Ocarina wasn't the first to do a lot of things, but it sure as fuck improved on all of them.
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>>2950946
better put that goal back where it belongs, other kids want to play too
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>>2950946
Sure, and I love that game, but how is improving a previous mechanic a revolution when your particular way was never a standard? People give way too much credit to Nintendo.
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>>2944434
There seems to be an extremely strong correlation between the use of the word contrarian and being severely mentally handicapped.
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>>2950959
>>2950967
I guess I jumped into the middle of a conversation.

I don't know if it was revolutionary or not, but it's still important how it solidified certain mechanics. More games base their targeting system on Ocarina's controllable targeting than Tomb Raider's.
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>Every single top 10 PlayStation games of all time list
>#1 Ocarina of Time

>Every single top Nintendo 64 games of all time list
>#1 Metal Gear Solid
>>
Top whatever lists are great but I really wish they wouldn't count first party shit. In every damn md/gen list they waste about 10 slots on fucking sonic. Don't get me wrong sonic is the shit but I want to see some other shit.
All Nintendo lists are the same, almost all slots are taken by mario

just fucking make it so it's like
#1 Sonic the Hedgehog franchise
>>
>>2951709
A lot of lists I've seen have only one game per franchise.
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