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Bad sequels
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You are currently reading a thread in /vr/ - Retro Games

Thread replies: 150
Thread images: 33
TL: sequels that dropped it
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>>2927974
>>
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You're heavily mistaken if you think Rayman 2 is where Ubisoft dropped the ball OP.
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>>2927981
But this isn't bad game nor too different from original?

Also pic related, doesn't feel anything like the first two
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>>2928006
>isn't different from the original or bad
>Flat artstyle
>New mechanic that completely removes the point of gaining momentum in order to make bad people feel good and speedy
>Game becomes complete shit after CNZ
>Tails
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>>2928001
I didn't mean it's a bad gameon it's own, it's just a bad sequel. I mean, I loved first rayman and played it for countless hours despite the fact it was ridiculously hard.

When I first got Rayman 2 I was so excited because I thought it would improve everything from the first game. Instead I only got dissappointed, it was ugly and they changed it to 3d platformer, gave him projectiles etc and it wasn't as fun as the first game.

Sure Ubisoft has then turned to EA v.2.0, but Rayman 2 was more like personal dissappointment.
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>>2928012

Luckily those are only your opinions
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>>2928019
Great argument
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>>2928001
I don't think they ever did in terms of Rayman, Origins and Legands were good and while I haven't played them, the mobile games look for for being smartphone games. The only one I don't know much about is the GBA game and even that looks at least ok.

Rabbids is a separate series and doesn't count.
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>>2927981
I agree, not a trolling opinion (have to clarify since everyone loves it and I don't know why). For me it's the weakest of the trilogy+CD
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>>2927986
I thought this was the best metroid, or is this trolling?
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How could Irem make this after the masterpiece that was Ghost Building Company?
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>>2927986
bait
>>2927974
rayman 2 is good it's just not what people expected. it's basically the same deal with people who say ocarina of time is worse than a link to the past.
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>>2928078
Yeah, I tried to explain Rayman 2 in this >>2928017 and I have to say I like ALTTP more than OOT.
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>>2927974
>>2927981
>>2927986
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>>2928078
>>2928094
Lttp is a garbage game that pales in comparison to oot. Nobody ever talks about lttp because it was forgettable. Oot on the other hand, influenced and changed gaming forever.
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>>2927986
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>>2928123
I was talking to the Super Metroid guy.
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>>2927974
You're fucking with me right?

That's easily one of the best platformers/adventure games of its generation.
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>>2928125>>2928125
Sorry about that, for some reason, i thought you were replying to me.
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>>2928115
Are you even trying with your baiting? It's only matter of opinion which zelda game is better, but saying link to the past is forgettable garbage nobody ever mentions is just stupid.
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>>2928132
I never hear anyone talk about lttp, i never see animations or fanart of lttp. It's always oot or newer.
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>>2928115
>obviously a kid whos first zelda was Ocarina of Time remake
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>>2928138
My first Zelda was the oot on the n64
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>>2928115
>Lttp is a garbage game

Now I know this thread is bait and everything but come the fuck on.

I played OoT as my first Zelda game when I was like 7. I played Lttp after playing every other zelda game out there over 10 years later and it's a great game.

How in the fuck is it garbage?
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>>2928137
OoT appeals more to the kind of people who would do fanart and shit while LttP appeals to true patricians. Incidentally, the same people who worship OoT seem to also be fans of Skyrim and the like.
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>>2928145
It plays like a typical top down adventure game. Lttp didn't do anything influential, just beat this dungeon and repeat 10 times. Limited exploring and no side quests. It's a boring game overall.
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>>2928142
Then it's just weird. Like saying mario 64 is better than super mario world.
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>>2928128
First game is better so it's a bad sequel.
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>>2928161
I dunno, it's probably because I played Rayman 2 first.

I still feel like Rayman 2 is one of the best looking games on the 64. It has atmosphere in spades.
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>>2928168
Well, i only find early 3d games hard to like and tend to like 2d games more. They just look ugly and feel clunky, but maybe it's just me.
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>>2928178
it's just you.
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>>2928178
It's not just you. Even in the 90s when 3D gaming was catching on like a California wild fire I thought it looked like shit
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>>2927974
The problem you had with Rayman 2 is that it's the PS1 version, OP. Game's fine, probably one of my favorite Rayman games except the PS1 version is just terrible.
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>>2928491
PC > DC > PS1 > PS2 >>>> N64
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>>2928536
What's so great about the PC version over the DC version?
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>>2928012
>Flat artstyle
I don't see how the game looks any worse than the other games. I've always thought the more shaded sprites in Sonic 3&K looks somewhat awkward or out of place.
>New mechanic that completely removes the point of gaining momentum
You still had to maintain momentum in order to clear certain obstacles and get onto the better/faster paths. The spin dash simply removed some (admittedly slight) tedium.
>Game becomes complete shit after CNZ
I disagree there too. I think the game is largely consistent. I like some levels more than others, though.
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>>2928536
>PS1 > PS2 >>>> N64
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>>2928159
>It plays like a typical top down adventure game.
Disregarding how influential the original Legend of Zelda was for adventure games, you're ignoring the fact that LttP established many of the conventions that Ocarina of Time used itself.
>just beat this dungeon and repeat 10 times
...Like Ocarina of Time? You're right that ALttP doesn't emphasize NPCs as much as Ocarina does, but I don't think that's a fault of the game. There's plenty to explore and do in A Link to the Past.
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>>2928026
That's the joy of an opinion tho, no matter how hard you try and argue it it is still an opinion so therefor you cannot prove it wrong or right.
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>>2928160
>Like saying mario 64 is better than super mario world.
But that's true. Hell even Mario 3 was much better,
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>>2927974
You're either autistic or have utterly shit taste.
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>>2928017
>it was ugly

Shit taste confirmed.
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>>2927974
No wonder you think it's bad, you played the shittiest version.
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>>2928762
That's pretty ugly for a platformet of the time tho. Glad I skipped it judging from that screenshot alone.
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>>2928885
he didn't post box art of the N64 version though
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>>2928536
>PC > DC > PS1 > PS2 >>>> N64
Are you crazy? The PC version *is* the N64 version with different music. Rayman 2 was an N64 game. A very good one.
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>>2928924

The PS1 version was the worst.
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>>2928536

Nevermind your blind hateboner for the N64.

>PS1 version better than PS2

nigga, what.
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>>2928958
The PC version is the DC version but can be modded, like with widescreen support.

>>2928968
No it isn't.

It has the shittiest music quality, the shittiest graphics, the shittiest level selection (map instead of hub world), and missing levels.
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How shitty is the 3DS port?
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>>2928978

Well I haven't played it, but it's Nintendo so it means it SUUUUUUUUCKSSSSSSSS
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>>2928118
keks in orbit
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>>2928974
>The PC version is the DC version but can be modded, like with widescreen support.
And you know this how?
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>>2928971
ps2 version runs choppy like fuck, regardless of the new content it's almost unplayable

ps1 version is at least a decent experience even if some things have been altered

n64 version looks and sounds like dogshit

dc version is the only way to play it now
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>>2929008
>n64 version looks and sounds like dogshit
U wot bro?
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>>2929016
>MIDI music
>vaseline effect
>low-res textures
>lowest polygon count

N64 is trash.
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>>2929016
Yep, I agree with that as well.
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>>2929008
>ps1 version is at least a decent experience even if some things have been altered
Sure, if you don't mind hackjob ports that removes a lot of content .
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>>2929023
>vaseline effect

Well, but PS1 has the "pixel vomit and dancing textures" effect

>lowest polygon count

This is a lie, you just have a pretty big hateboner for the N64, but N64 has higher polycount than PS1, sorry.
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>>2929023
>>MIDI music
Better versions of songs.
>vaseline effect
Wait, so you just hate the N64? Better than the PS1's shitterific polygon jiggling. Besides, Rayman 2 offered some settings for making the image sharper.
>low-res textures
Looked fine to me.
>lowest polygon count
Proof?
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>>2929023
>>2929058
N64 version offers high and low resolution (320x240 and 480x360) It also offered some sort of "sharp" vs "soft" setting in low resolution, which I can only assume had something to do with VI filtering.
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Rayman 2: The Great Escape was a great sequel!
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>>2928028
>Rayman never dropped the ball, but that time between Rayman 3 and Origins (2003-2011) where he only got puzzle collection games doesn't count
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>ITT: Terrible opinions

Hipsterfags plz go
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>>2927981

What could you possibly criticize about that game over the original?
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>>2929023
>lowest polygon count

The character models in the N64 version actually have a higher polygon count than the PS1 version. I remember checking this out a while ago.
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>>2928978
Save your money, it's shit.
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>>2928762
Well it's uglier than this.
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>>2929893
What makes it shit? Think I should try it out of curiosity, but i don't want to waste money.
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>>2928978
>>2930020
Out-of-box its playable, some slowdown and there are some weird sound effect glitches(some dont play at all and some cuts-off randomly) and raymans movement is bit too sensitive compared to other versions, but other than that its alright port.

Also if you have new 3ds, plus homebrew or CFW installed, then you can use HANS to force it run at 804mhz(instead of the 268mhz which all normal 3ds games runs at normally) which eliminates nearly all slowdown and runs smoothly at 60fps, even with 3D on.
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>>2927981

Edgy.
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>>2928491

How is the PS1 version terrible? I'd say the N64 version is undoubtedly the worst for its awful sound samples and gibberish speaking.
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>>2930594
>How is the PS1 version terrible?

Heavily abridged levels that are altered / shorter with significantly reduced geometry, very little use of transparency compared to the other versions, main characters have very few polygons, and the graphics look pretty glitchy too.

>the N64 version is undoubtedly the worst for its awful sound samples

Music sounds like the other versions except with fewer instruments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZuHiLxmz4M

>gibberish speaking.
Every version except the PS1 and PS2 versions have gibberish speaking. And by god, the voice acting is awful in both. They actually re-recorded the PS1's voice acting for the PS2 version because it was that bad, and the PS2's version acting wasn't much better.
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>>2930645
>Heavily abridged levels that are altered / shorter with significantly reduced geometry, very little use of transparency compared to the other versions, main characters have very few polygons, and the graphics look pretty glitchy too.
To add to this, I'm pretty sure they also cut out 200 yellow lums because of how much the levels had to be changed.
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>>2930594

I like how now you've toned down your hate for the N64 version and just mention the sound since you can't shit on the polycount anymore since been proven wrong.

PS1 version is butchered and not recommended at all.
N64 version is not as good as DC or PC, but still better than PS1.
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>>2929023
>N64
>lowest polygon count

ayyy lmao
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>>2928613
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>>2930841
I didn't remember rayman 2 being this ugly.
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>>2930863
Even compared to Scrap Brain in Sonic 1, Metropolis Zone looks flat.
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The only right answer.
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>>2928118
IT WAS NOT BY MY HOOK I WAS GIVEN ALLURE. I WAS CAST HERE BY HUMANS TO GAIN ME BITES.
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>tfw every kid was excited for this shit
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>>2927974
Really.
All we need is a Rayman 4 in 3D with an actual Mr. Dark fight.
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>>2928762
Depends on the version. The PC looks pretty good, but PS1 looks ugly.
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>the only good Rayman game
>dropped

Remember when Ubisoft tried to make Rayman their mascot?

Good times
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>>2927974
Rayman 2 is fucking fun. Kill yourself OP.
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>>2930645
>Music sounds like the other versions except with fewer instruments.
Likely because the native N64 music driver ate up RSP resources for every audio channel you added. Only a handful of games got really complex music from the N64. Some by screwing with the N64 music spec, others by using Factor 5's custom music engine MusyX.
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>>2931149
>>2931171
>>2931218
So many faggots choosing bad 3d platformer instead of beautiful, handdrawn and well balanced 2d platformer.
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>>2932114
Since when are we comparing them? Theyre just saying its not bad.
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>>2931031
It didn't help me learn Spanish.
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>>2932114
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If you consider this a sequel.

Which I do.
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>>2928152
OoT appeals to people who are currently 20-25, LttP fans are older.

You can try to defend your nostalgic bias, but you'll just end up comparing apples to oranges like a faggot for a half hour trying to reassure yourself that you aren't biased.
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>>2930645
>Every version except the PS1 and PS2 versions have gibberish speaking.
The PS2 version actually does have it as a language option. But if you never played it, you wouldn't know that.
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>>2932114
why cant I like both?
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http://strawpoll.me/6600051
DECIDE NOW
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>>2932238
>The PS2 version actually does have it as a language option. But if you never played it, you wouldn't know that.

oh gee what a pedant for an obscure option embedded into a language menu
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>>2932462
Maybe if you hate good games.
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>>2932748
>people voting for PS1 version
top kek
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>>2932748
I played it on the PS1 so that's what I voted for.

But I thought the Dreamcast version looked really cool because I saw ads for it in EGM and the Dreamcast was a cool new system.
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When I was a kid I found Rayman 2 really fucking impressive. A decade later and I acknowledged that even Tonic Trouble is better.
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took a unique game and made it a RE clone
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i'm sorry for saying this on /vr/ but rayman 1 is really not a good design. i mean it's not just hard, it's deliberately dickish, inconsistent and opaque. i refuse to believe that anyone found all the electoons without a strategy guide, and i refuse to believe anyone came up with a strategy guide without decompiling the code and then finding which fucking pixel you have to be standing on to make an electoon cage spawn

rayman 2 was a little bit style-over-substance, but it was also one of the best 3d platformers of its generation

rayman 3 is where they dropped it. or at least, it was where i personally lost interest. it was over-the-top and wacky and annoying, and i'd rather have had pure, well-designed platforming than costumes and combos. it felt like the game was dripfeeding me with 'wacky' humour and costumes in the hope that i wouldn't get bored. i actually appreciated rayman 2's slower pace.
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>>2933737
i liked the changes they made. it was after the other versions and it feels like it was made with hindsight

that said, there was no 'top of the world', which really, REALLY sucks because that was one of my favourite levels

>>2933887
when i was a kid i preferred tonic trouble, now i prefer rayman. go figure. tonic trouble has a great soundtrack though. https://youtu.be/6iXSlwFvYwY
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>>2933906
Funny, I prefer this game's battle system over hte first one.
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Rayman? More like Gayman haha owned.
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>>2927981
Finally I find someone else who thinks 2 is the weakest. It's the embodiment of "Hold Right To Win"
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>>2932145
So it was on par with the actual software, but with fighting?
Works for me.
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>>2930015
Fucking Genesis-tier.
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This awful mess.
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>>2933937
Rayman 1 really is hard, and the PS1 version is just so unforgivable. 3 health points, only few lives and maybe 5(?) continues. And then the game puts you in levels you have to learn the hard way to even pass them, no one can get through them the first time.

I like later versions better where they give you more health and lives but still keeps the game hard. Only thing i really dislike, is that you must find every single cage to proceed to last level, it just makes no sense because as you said they're impossible to find on your own.

Nonetheless, I still love it and play it regularly and it's one of my all time favorites. I just wished they had made a true 2d sequel for it. Rayman Origins and legends are okay, but thats it, they're just okay.
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>>2928974
>The PC version is the DC version but can be modded, like with widescreen support.

No it isn't. It's an N64 port with the music added back in and some other minor changes, but it was a terrible port all things considered.
I'd much rather play the DC or PS2 version.
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>>2934383
What game is this? I like it.
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>>2928974
The DC version can run in widescreen too
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>>2934502
I never had a problem finding all the cages on my own, it took a few months to do but I remember doing it.
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>>2933937
>Im to young to understandthat when you had limited games you did everything possible.
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>>2938982
Misadventures of Flink. Beautiful animations and huge sprites with no slowdown or flicker. Easily one of the best looking genesis games. It's also fairly easy and boring
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>>2931139
I played the fuck outta this. I wish it was a more complete game but it's still awesome and almost everything I wanted in an snes battle toads.
And it's so much easier than the nes one.
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I played the first few levels a ton on Sega Smash Pack 2 when I was much younger, and they were fantastic. Recently I sat down and played through both of these and 2 was such a shitshow that it hurt my feelings.

The perfect Vectorman game would have the opening levels of 2, the voice of 2, and then just the rest of 1.
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>>2939142
I have to say that's quite an achievement. I've never heard anyone doing it on their on own, and I didn't have the patience to find them all. I found most of them, but band lands had some really tricky cage placements sometimes.
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>>2939142
I played Rayman last year and found all of them on my own. All you had to do is constantly survey the map looking for any surface that could be walked on, reach it despite it looking impossible half the time (usually there was a cloud of something JUST outta view) and walk around it until you eventually reached hit the trigger point, or see the next ledge you were meant to reach it.

Hell I was so thorough I redid that fucking insane part of Joe's Cave where the lightswitch is TWICE just in to check the trigger that made the exit appear didn't also make a cage appear. It didn't.
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>>2928160
Bad example, since it is.
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>>2927974
what do people not understand about the word sequel? as a successor to rayman 1 its definitely bad. the original 2d version of the game actually looked interesting, and as someone who isnt a huge fan of rayman 2 id have loved to see that instead
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>>2939740
This was my whole point with this thread. Bad sequel isn't same as bad game. It's just like new carmageddon would turn out some nascar game with no blood and crashing to othera.
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>>2928623
> ALttP doesn't emphasize NPCs as much as Ocarina does, but I don't think that's a fault of the game.
> but I don't think that's a fault of the game.
What? How is that not to blame on the game?
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>>2939897
Words like "blame" and "fault" imply the game did something bad. It's not necessarily bad to not have a lot of NPCs.
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>>2928623
The first good Zelda game was oot, rest after it are a disappointment. Don't bother with anything before it.
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>>2939683
Hahah good times.
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>>2939351
Well I was between 14-17 at the time so I used to just trying different shit in the same level over and over.
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>>2939157
Flink is a sequel?
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>>2940168
Just as a fanfag would claim.
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>>2940410
It's not a fanfag when it's the truth and facts.
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>>2939740
You meant something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TuUiMwzimA
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>>2940487
Yeah, sure bub
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>>2927974
This shitstain of a game.
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>>2941805
Don't forget the even shittier Yoshi's Story.
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>>2941797
>bub
Anon confirmed for being Wolverine
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>>2941812
I never got to play that one but I heard it's fucked up with melons or something and its really slow feeling.

Yoshi's island best island
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>>2927974
Yeah, Rayman actually suffered more than even Gex did going 2D to 3D. Rayman 1 was one of the hardest platformers I have ever played. Rayman 2 was very easy and also very boring. The original Gex was probably still the best though.

>>2928539
IDK but the PC version runs fine on Windows 10. That's pretty impressive since not a lot of multiplat games made in the late 90s still work on modern PCs and modern Windows. Rayman 1 requires Dosbox to play on PC and it is very complicated to install for a DOS game and it has many technical issues even still.

I can think of a few other sequels that were a lot worse though

>Need for Speed 2
No cops, only concept/exotic cars, went to unrealistic tracks, very unappealing music and general gameplay

>GTA 2
All the retro GTA games were bad, but this one is the worst.
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>>2928118
>>2931124
KEK
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>>2942373
>Yeah, Rayman actually suffered more than even Gex did going 2D to 3D.
I thought Gex made his transition to 3D much more smoothly in comparison.
>>
Gex 3D in PAL territories was far superiour to what the rest of the world got, frankly.

Case in point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHdHw-XcSLM
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>>2941812
I liked Yoshis Story a lot
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>>2942459
While that voice does sound pretty nice, I don't think it fits Gex's overall design or personality at all. Too classy for such a trashy gecko.
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>>2942471

Me too, it has some design problems (like having to unlock 18 of the 24 levels the game has, most people play it once and think the game only has 6 levels), but the controls are actually quite good, the game has a gorgeous art direction and 2D graphics, and it runs at constant 60fps, even when there's many enemies on screen, it goes smooth as butter.

I don't like it better than Yoshi's Island, and I'm frustrated by it because it's either too easy (if you just play story mode without going for hi-score) or WAY too hard (if you aim for melon-only top-score run), but it's definitely worth playing, it has a lot of experimentation going on.
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