What is your opinion on these two games?
What is the best way to go about playing them? Is there source ports for these games like there is for Doom?
I loved Hexen. Brilliant game. Hexen 2 was also kind of cool.
Heretic I played recently and didn't really like. a bit too simplistic.
Heretic can be fun. It is medieval Doom with various magical weapons and different sorts of beasts and sorcerers about.
The level design isn't as good as Dooms but it is still fun.
Hexen is dull. Not many weapons to choose from and you end up looking around maps to find a switch you didn't pull to finally advance. It is just annoying.
Heretic is an awesome Doom clone in a medieval setting. Cool weapons, enemies and levels. Better levels than Doom actually.
Hexen is a boring Doom clone filled with tedious puzzles and levels. Also there's only like 4 weapons (per character).
Heretic is a great Doom clone with loads of cool magical weapons and cool aesthetics.
Hexen is a great Doom clone with less cool magical weapons, shitty lighting and boring game progression.
Like, I really think Hexen does magic better than Heretic, but all the weapons are spread out on three characters so you get four weapon each, making it boring in the long run and as the others said it's an obnoxious switch hunting game with terrible level design, probably one of the few games where you really feel lke a badass, metal as fuck wizard though.
Hexen 2 is good although flawed by some questionable level design choices. If you won't like it then at least give the expansion pack a go. It's a much better game.
You also get to play as this badass.
I personally think that Heretic is more consistent in quality than DOOM.
Heretic EP 2/3/4/5 > Doom EP 2/3/4
The weapons feel, sound. and look like shit though. Shame there is no Smooth Doom equivalent for Heretic.
Hexen is love it or hate it.
>Hexen is love it or hate it.
This, there really is no middleground.
Either you love the exploration, mood and puzzles, or you find them drawn out, boring and tedious.
Heretic is a lot like Doom, but Hexen isn't, the levels and combat flows very differently and if you were coming off Heretic expecting more Doom-like adventures, you'd be disappointed.
I don't like Hexen at all, I think it's incredibly boring and the class system kind of holds it back, but the tone and aesthetics of Hexen are very good, better than Heretic.
I kind of wonder if the assets of Hexen could be retooled and then put to use to make a more Doom/Heretic style game with better action and more fun levels.
Maybe take a few cues from Strife and include some basic RPG elements and character interraction.
I'd love to see a new game using the Serpent Riders aesthetics, the murals, the art direction, the music, the monsters, just a new fantasy game that looks and feels like how Heretic and Hexen felt
I love Doom and I like Heretic, Hexen and Strife.
Heretic I played a lot as a kid. Hexen was more something that I played at friends houses. I didn't beat Hexen for myself until a few years ago. I liked it tho, even tho it takes awhile until you get the hang of it.
I like the atmosphere of both games. They're dark. Especially Hexen.
>I kind of wonder if the assets of Hexen could be retooled and then put to use to make a more Doom/Heretic style game with better action and more fun levels.
I'm trying my best to make this happen! Hexen with giant spiders and crocs, and vampires from 1945 Berlin who have opened a portal into the Hexen realm (bringing WW2 technology and allowing the hero to access WW2 germany during the battle of Berlin - tanks and all.)
Aiming for less switch hunting, but always plenty of backtracking through the hub once a key has been found.
Other cool features I've added include:
Swimmable deep water, custom sound effects and music up the wazoo, voice acting for the hero (a la Blood) and for bosses (a la korax), destroyable walls and plenty of custom textures and monsters( MP-40-wielding nosferati for example)
The mod is called "a morte"
desu Guns plus magic is pretty damn fun.
Also blasting the traditional hexen enemies with MP-40s and MG-42s is also very fun.
The spiders are pretty brutal though, very fast and very deadly.
I got the games. I plan on playing them as close to how they were intended as possible. After that I might try out a couple mods for the games. Particularly Brutal Hexen and Wrath of Cronos.
Anything you guys want to recommend to me? Maybe which class to use or if I should play with vertical aim?
Play with mouselook, it should be auto-enabled with zdoom. You shouldn't need to adjust any options, except your mouse sensitivity to suit you, and possibly rebind some keys depending on how you like to play.
I personally bind z and x to change inventory item and right Ctrl to use item. That way you can quickly use items with your left hand while still using the right hand to shoot etc.
Yep, pretty much this. Play the originals first then you can delve into mods.
The "a morte" mod wont be finished for a couple of months yet.
Cool Hexen mods:
Scourge of Viscerus
Wrath of Cronos
If you can actually get attached to Hexen, sure, play it vanilla, but as discussed, Hexen as it is simply doesn't appeal to everyone.
It can be that a simple gameplay mod can make the game much better (a lot of people hate the combat in particular).
Original hexen already had voice acting for korax, and the occasional "hmm..." for the hero, as well as the usual grunt. I'm just expanding it a bit. It isn't going to be blood-tier one liners, more like the occasional line related to what's going on. You come across a whole lot of person-sized cocoons for the first time: "I gotta stop these spiders..."
You find the toolbox for the first puzzle: "This might come in handy..."
No over-the-top one liners every 30 seconds, I'm trying to add to the game, not detract from the atmosphere.
I've just been working on the sewers map, 90% underwater, full of giant crocs. Added about 9 custom sound effects for the map, all machinery and pump type sounds to make the underwater environment more interesting. So far no voice acting at all in this map.
I don't believe you or anyone else hates the mapping in Heretic. If people complain about it, it's because they don't like the monsters and weapons (and the damage values, more precisely). The maps in Heretic are mostly pretty great. They certainly have more cohesive texturing and theming than the stock Doom levels, though I guess if you really like the more irregular shapes and weirdness I can understand liking Doom more.
This, except Heretic maps are not better than Doom maps.
Sure Doom has some lemons, but Heretic's best map is not even close to Doom's best map, and Doom consistently has better maps than Heretic.
>Once the character starts talking he stops being you.
Last I checked I have no magical abilities, I live in a fairly modern society, and the streets aren't crawling with monsters. The voice of the character on screen is the least of an issue
>level design choices
Oh, is that what you call infinite regression quests?
Hexen 2 was flawed because of the god-awful design of the objectives. Every single thing required you to have some other thing to make this other thing to turn it into that thing to defeat/open/pass through this thing. I get that they wanted to try and emulate an open-worldish type of feel to the game by making the player backtrack a lot, but it's doesn't feel open world at that point, it feels fucking annoying.
That's where I think Heretic 2 succeeded over Hexen 2. It was just an overall more enjoyable experience, because its design philosophy wasn't "COLLECT ALLL THE GARBAGE"
Dark Messiah is honestly a better sequel to Hexen than Hexen 2 was.
The class system gives it more replay value, but the limited weapon selection for each class tends to make it feel cut short. What is it, 4 weapons for each class? If that was increased just to 5, it would've been a drastic increase.
I think that Hexen was amazing, and its design at the time was a bit ambitious, but god if the limited weapons didn't get to me.
There are some mods which add more weapons, aren't there?
>The class system gives it more replay value
In theory, but do I really want to play through this long and boring game again with a class that ultimately feels much the same?
>There are some mods which add more weapons, aren't there?
There's some, but I haven't given them any real time because I don't want to play Hexen
they are very mundane and predictable but take longer to kill than other monsters. And they are often in narrow spots so you can't ignore them.
At least that makes it more satisfying to launch your Wraithverge into an army of them.
My only problem with them is they become immune most attacks for a few seconds after every hit. It's not as big of an issue as most people make it out to be, though, as each class has ways to deal with them.
>Fighter - Timon's Axe cleaves through them
>Cleric - flechettes or Wraithverge
>Mage - centaurs are particularly weak to Arc of Death
They completely break the flow of the game in terms of combat.
They're used as a basic mook (as in, often in groups), and they're annoying to deal with.
They should have been upgraded and retooled to Pain Elemental or Arch-Vile tier and then used responsibly.
Yes you can just flechette them but they're still bad. If the game has me going "well fuck, these guys again" and the enemy in question isn't a special higher tier enemy but what's part of the cannon fodder, that's really a pretty considerable flaw in my eyes.
I'd rather they had made him make use of his four legs to move fast and then try to actively flank me, that would have made fighting him interesting instead of a chore.
I dont have any videos, but you can try out what I have so far:
Runs in Zdoom with the Hexen.wad
Once you've escaped the "battle of berlin" map, you've pretty much played as far as I've written. Still lots of detail to add, some minor areas aren't fleshed out yet.
Yeah I dont think stealth games really suit voice acting.
Some of the switch hunting in hexen was just stupid. The Castle of grief level where you need to find 4 hidden switches in order to activate the platform to get inside the castle. Castles don't really work like that...
wandering around wondering what you're supposed to be doing and where you're supposed to be going is never that fun after the 4th time you've done a circuit of the map
Listen bub, those are not infinite regression quests or whatever. Similar to how you had level-based stat progression in the sequel, they added an rpg adventure flavor to the objectives as well. Having written clues in books and scrolls giving you some sense of direction is better than
>you pulled a switch, now figure out what it did!
What I didn't like is when, for instance, you had to break a wall or punch a hidden switch in order to progress.
Also they didn't try to emulate anything. Hub system was already in the first game.
And I can't believe you bring up Heretic 2 of all things, that game was fucking terrible.
I grew up playing Heretic and Doom. Hexen, not so much. I still think Heretic and hexen are both better than Doom though. The class system in Hexen is interesting but the level design is shit.
Also, anyone remember Chasm? (Pic realted) That shit was actually scary when I was a kid and neither Doom nor Hexen did that. Heretic, sometimes.
While the class system was cool there just weren't enough weapons to make it awesome. I wish it was just a standard level based game like Heretic
The Necromancers Gauntlets are badass.
Liking what I have played so far. I'm playing on the hardest difficulty. I'm up to The Citadel. Game feels very much like a modified Doom basically.
Think I will definitely try some wads/mods if I end up liking the rest of the game as well as Hexen.
Heretic 1 + Shadow of the Serpent riders ex pak
Hexen 1 + Deathkings of the Dark Citadel
Download here ~20mb:
choose a modern source port here to play the wads with no problem on modern systems, one of the top 3 is recommended:
Just tried a level and didn't know on the hardest difficulty there weren't respawning enemies.
Enemies get a bit hectic due to their shot speed and how their projectiles are. Minatours really mix things up, same with the Iron Lich head as you saw at the end of episode 1.
Those enemies looked so cool. Really enjoyable game so far with great levels. I did a couple levels for second episode. Just taking a bit of a break because it's hard for me to play KBnM for long periods of time. It starts hurting my hand a lot if I go too long.
I was very resistant to playing Heretic all the way through, and I still overall prefer Doom hands-down, but Heretic has its own rhythm and balance that's pretty cool when you get used to it.
Playing levels from a "wand start," it's all about ammo management, significantly more than Doom. There are no hitscanners and enemies are less threatening overall, so it's all about not getting pinned and having enough ammo to clear them out. Finding the dragon claw or hellstaff is usually a sigh of relief because you can finally use that 100+ weapon-specific ammo you've been collecting so far.
Heretic is a straight up doom clone with different powerups and enemies. Hexen is quite different and has 3 player classes. Hexen II is based on the quake engine and runs well on modern Windows. Heretic II is based on the Quake 2 engine but I haven't played it.