Previous thread -
This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!
>Try to keep it /vr/-related: Nothing past 5th gen(+Dreamcast). Slight OT might be okay if related to CRTs (E.G. 16:9 compatible models, flatscreens, etc.) Systems with backwards compatibility are also pretty safe territory, assuming you're focusing on the older games. PC CRTs are also a-ok.
>Produce OC! Get out your real cameras and take beautiful pictures of your CRTs displaying recognizable characters with the kind of beautiful accuracy that brings tears to the eyes of young and old alike! If you take 100 photos, at least one of them will turn out alright! (maybe)
>Try to be as detailed as possible when asking info on a specific model. As always, google is your friend, and we are your friends with benefits. Older archived threads aren't a bad place to look either.
>Share appreciation for others choice of technology and personal philosophy of gaming. As always show courtesy in your discussion and moderate yourselves first.
Discussion of video processing and scaling devices is okay, but try to keep the focus on CRTs and CRT accessories
CRT Pastebin (WIP): http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x
S-Video Pasta: http://pastebin.com/rH2h6C7W
Thread Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PhdXJYwA8xModrTV1Yt-i1tvNgwiagpeBx0m_xNIVtc/viewform?edit_requested=true&fbzx=9009823977812318933
240p test suite is the gold standard from what I've seen. Of course, you will need a flashcart to run the rom on the console.
Don't forget to google your exact TV model. You will want to try and find the Service manual, and the Service Menu code. The Service manual will most likely have the correct default settings for the Service Menu, which is important when calibrating. Just keep in mind, you can absolutely break your TV in the Service Menu, so don't play with anything you don't understand.
Will the really high frequency sound my CRT constantly emits damage my hearing? I already have mild tinnitus and don't want to make it worse. It's in the range that oldafags can't hear, and it kinda hurts. I don't know the model of TV, I just picked it up off the roadside.
No clue. Should work well I guess?
Just found out my 48" HD LCD has S-video input. So I unhooked my SNES from my 31" CRT and tried it out.
absolutelydisgusting.jpg is the only way to describe it. I swear to god the game looked better on emulator than it did on the LCD. I noticed the lag on the first jump I did, but everything else looked so horrible that the lag was one of the least terrible things about it. I'm now really glad I spent the time hunting down a CRT.
I doubt it. For hearing damage to take place, you need a loud enough sound over time, or a really loud sound impact. So unless the whine is hitting 90ish decibels(somewhat quieter than a fucking motorcycle), you're fine. A small 5 decibel whine will annoy the shit out of you, but you won't suffer hearing damage.
What does /crt/ general think of getting a freebie CRT, and making an arcade cabinet that plays console games?
Basically just a standard AV hookup, with different control panels based on console.
I'd wire up SNES or NES control decks to give the proprietary connector and use arcade components.
I'm a little confused by what you are attempting. Do you mean sticking a SNES and a TV inside of an arcade shell? Wiring up a joystick to use instead of a controller? Could you be a little more specific in what you are thinking about, cause I can't figure it out from your post.
>build empty arcade cabinet
>stick CRT TV in as a base
>have a platform so I can put in a console that I can switch out as I choose
>have a control panel for each individual console that I can plug in as needed
I see... So, you mean a basic CRT TV stuck inside an arcade cab. Then you want to (I might be misunderstanding this part) have control boards with the controls for each system embedded into them, that you switch out when changing systems? If this is what you are saying, then I'm not sure why you would want this. Wouldn't you be much better served with a control board with just two or four hangers to place controllers on with a hole in the middle for running the cables through? That way you would only have to switch out controllers through the board, rather than pull out the entire board to replace.
As for switching out the consoles, unless they all use the same cable then you will need to go back in and switch out the cables as well. At that point, why not just use a simple switcher? Press button, switch which console is connected to the TV.
I have just purchased a LLoyds portable TV/Radio Model L214 and I would like to connect my computer to it and use it as a second monitor to emulate older games onto for shits and giggles. The only problem is that there is no input other than the antenna. The only other input says "EXT ANT (75Ω)" and I think that's regarding the radio. I was told by a friend that I would need to buy something that emits a signal from my video card that the tv would be able to pick up. What do you guys think I need to do to connect it?
I think the antenna built into it is for radio, the EXT ANT is for the TV. And to get your signal there, you would need something to broadcast on the right frequency. I guess there are ones that plug into your PC, but you might find it cheaper to hunt down UHF transmitters on ebay. Also try agile modulators. Not too sure about the UHF transmitters, but you can pick up an agile modulator for less than $40 if you look hard enough.
Unfortunately I know nothing of UHF transmitters and agile modulators. Is one more simple than the other, what else would I need to buy to go with it? Also you said there are ones that plug into my PC, what exactly do you mean by that? Sorry if I'm asking too much and sound like an idiot.
Well, the UHF transmitters are more expensive, so lets stick to the agile's. Agile modulators take an incomming signal and broadcast it on a programmable channel, in other words, over the air. So you would just need the right cable to feed some input to it from your source in addition to the agile modulator. As for ones that plug into your PC, what I was saying is that there MIGHT be some sort of analog TV broadcast PCI card or something, but I have no idea.
We tolerated a lot as kids because we didn't know better. RF, composite, VHS... we were just happy to be able to experience things like VCRs and video games. We were really one of the first generations that had both readily accessible. There wasn't much room to complain.
There's sort of a nostalgic warmth about how shitty VHS tapes were now, to me anyway. Now that all of my favorite movies and stuff are readily available in HD, remastered formats, and I've seen them a million times, there's a certain charm in seeing it the old-fashioned way again. It also puts into perspective why fullscreen edits of widescreen movies were standard back then. Aside from moron consumers not understanding that the black bars aren't covering part of the picture, considering how small your average TV was 20-30 years ago, and how poor the picture quality was, I might forsake the extra width of a movie to get a bit more size and detail out of it.
Literally anything that will convert the PC signal to coxial. Instead of screwing it on, you just strip some of the coaxial cable and wrap it around the antenna, then tune the TV to that channel. You miiiiiight have to insulate the antenna somehow to prevent interference, but it's doubtful.
Try it with that ext ant port first because it COULD be for the TV
How safe is this to turn on?
How do I put it back in place without electrocuting myself?
>How safe is this to turn on?
>How do I put it back in place without electrocuting myself?
Turn it carefully.
Place the CRT screen on something soft like a pillow to avoid scratches.
Then unscrew and remove the back and inspect the internal damage, also check if the circuit board are cracked.
>Thats nice, but you don't bother to explain the simple solution. What would that solution be then?
I think your chances of finding the equipment to do what you want are pretty slim if that equipment does in fact exist in the first place. Unless you're a electrical engineer and can whip up an alternate signal input or make your own PC compatible uhf transmitter I honestly think you're better off just getting another retro monitor to mess around with that has, at the very least, a composite input. Sorry bro.
So if I get one of these cables and put it into a RF modulator from my computer, and then from the modulator I have coaxial cable wrap around the antenna that may work?
You won't have sound, if that works. That's assuming the signal coming off your video card is compatible with what your TV will accept, which may not be the case.
You have three options that I can see. You can spend the $40ish on the agile modulator and broadcast your own TV signal to pick up on the antenna(which you'll need to buy for any option), or spend $25-$30 for a digital to analog converter box(converts HDMI to composite) and spend the money on a cable to convert composite to coaxial which you can splice onto the TV antenna(though I have no idea how well that would work, or if it would even work properly), or if you have an old VCR you can try the VCR option with the 2nd option, and use the VCR to convert from composite to coaxial.
The first option is the only one I know would work for sure, but the other two may work. I've never spliced coax to an antenna, so I dunno.
Okay so I'm thinking of going with the first option. Now when I look up agile modulator I find stuff that looks like something I already have (pic related). Is this an agile modulator?
Wait, I think I'm retarded, is this what I should be looking for when it comes to an agile modulator?
Fuck me, they turned it on for like two months and put it back in the box. That's amazingly low.
>the f1u is pretty much the gold standard
I've heard that; but why is it? The E1 models have 100 more TVLines.
would I be able to get 480p [to display on a BVM-20G1U]
Nope, 15kHz/SD/480i/240p only. Option cards will determine what inputs you can use. It probably comes with an RGB/YPbPr (component) input card, and a composite input card. The BVM series one before yours (BVM-2011/P) came with a region-specific card depending on where the set was intended to be used - so PAL for PAL regions, NTSC for NTSC, etc. You could of course add more, but I think your set might do all regions out of the box. (note that RGB and YPbPr are not region specific, and are the same everywhere)
It almost certainly won't have an S-Video (Y/C) input card, though those did exist.
Other cards may or may not be useful. An extra set of RGB/YPbPr inputs won't hurt. means you can plug in two consoles, lets say, and switch between them easily. Other possible cqards are the auto-setup cards which need an external probe to actually work, black-level cards, and a few others. SDI won't help you as i'm not aware of what actually uses it. Old video production equipment, I think?
The set will probably take BNC connections exclusively. You can get RCA-BNC adapters pretty cheap on ebay, and from a pack of 10 about 8 will be fine. Or you can pay more and possibly get them from a radioshack or jaycar or something.
BVM's need terminations on their outputs. Each input BNC will have a loop-through output right next to it, probably under it. These take 75ohm BNC terminators, also available on ebay. You can experiment with and without them. Without terminations will probably be brighter, but will also introduce signal reflection (think slight blur or image ghosting) in the lines.
Operation & Service Manual here: http://dcemulation.org/~darc/SonyBVM14G1A.pdf
Thanks bud, that's a wealth of knowledge you just dropped. I'm kind of ticked off I won't be able to display 480p as that's what I've been hunting for.
What would be an average price point for one of these?
Also I've seen a nice list of tons of monitors(pvm/bvm) that gives you specs as well as which multisync. Would you happen to know where I can find it?
I found out my step-father has a Sony Trinitron WEGA, it has components and is big, flat-screen, can the problem of weird colors be fixed? it has that purple and green color degradation all over the screen, and how much will it cost? Also is a good model for retro-games?
>tfw you see your CRT freak out for the first time, and know that it is not long for this world
Expecting to need replacement of my TV soon, what's a good brand for a 27" 240i/240p/480i with component inputs?
I've seen my CRTs do weird shit once in a while. I've only ever seen one die.
But if you're looking for a backup, sony trinitrons are good. Standard definition only. Also, there is no 240i.
If the wrong colors are showing in strange spots on the screen, it's probably not worth it to try and fix. Corners can get weird colors sometimes without there being something seriously wrong. Do you know if the TV is degaussing properly?
Have an RGB modded NES, a Saturn and a PSX.
Currently modded NES and PSX are on S-Video and Saturn is Composite. I'm considering getting SCART cables and using something like pic related since my CRT has a Component input. I just have a couple of questions:
Does Sync type have any effect on this sort of setup? I don't understand this composite video + sync / csync / luma sync stuff.
Will using this device introduce input lag?
As far as sync is concerned you shouldn't have to worry about what kind of sync you use. However I've only ever used Composite video and Luma for sync with my converter.
And you won't have to worry about input lag since it's not upscaling the image. It's just converting the signal to another signal.
>I've heard that; but why is it? The E1 models have 100 more TVLines.
Someone wrote an article on it a few years back, and as such it get's repeated without much thought.
>Does Sync type have any effect on this sort of setup? I don't understand this composite video + sync / csync / luma sync stuff.
I'm not sure how the CSY-2100 clones are effected quality wise based on different sync, but it shouldn't have any problem using any of the three.
Sync is how your CRT knows how to keep all the video data... in sync.
SCART as standard uses composite video for sync; This can introduce interference with some systems/setups, but not something you need to worry about most of the time.
Luma Sync is the luminance signal that would be used for s-video(Y/C) or component(YPbPr). It's essentially just a black and white composite video signal. Without the color information, there's less chance of interference with the RGB signals. It's also often suggested for platforms which don't have C-Sync easily available(PS1/some N64 models)
C-Sync is JUST the sync information, not video or anything else. May also be refereed to as Clean Sync or Raw sync.
>Will using this device introduce input lag?
It's a simple transcoder, not scaling or processing, so no. RGBS->Math->YPbPr.
You will want to get a little breakout to get audio though.
Wolfenstein 3D on the Mega Drive being fed into PVM-1344Q.
>Someone wrote an article on it a few years back, and as such it get's repeated without much thought.
I could have sworn Fudoh doesn't *actually* call it the ultimate display, though.
Indeed, which makes it a little frustrating that after all that care and lack of use UPS managed to smash it up leaving me with a bent corner and busted bezel!
I'm so unbelievably pissed off right now...
I wish. No, single box with paper(?!) to pad it out. Fucking idiots even managed to put the "This Way Up" markings facing the bottom so it arrived upside down!
The last couple of BVMs I bought came on palettes and were absolutely fine of course but not in as good condition as this one was when it left the seller...
No wonder these things are getting harder to come by if this is how they get treated.
I've bought from this place before and never had problems. I think they might have rushed it after I phoned to complain about it sitting in their warehouse for a week after they told me it had been dispatched.
At least it works, maybe I can transfer the guts into one of my other units with better cases...after they give me a full refund of course.
This PVM-14M2U I bought online just arrived. The seller said it worked, but when I turn it on the onscreen menu looks like this. The text is wobbly and so far to the left much of it is cut off. The video looks like this too when I connect a console. Is this thing broken? I looked around at the service menu, but the image is so screwed up I can't really read the options.
So I just netted these fuckers. Bvm-20g1u's.
Tested them all out and they're perfect but the screen flickers. It's not noticeable while playing but in menus is when I really notice it. Any advice on how to alleviate the problem
Sup /crt/, just got a RGB-Component transcoder so I can get a better image on my TV. So now the question is where to get scart cables? I know there's that UK site, but I was wondering if there's anywhere in america I could go first, just to make it easier.
The consoles I'll be using it with are SNES, Genesis (model 1), and Saturn. I hear there are two different versions of saturn cables too, not sure what to make of that.
Not strictly CRT related but I can't think of a better place to ask - I bought a cheapo 'VGA to Composite video' thing to connect my laptop to my TV for emulation and some other stuff. The amazon reviews didn't say there were any major problems with it working, but it's doing this. What exactly is happening here? Also it's black & white for some reason.
>How is deinterlacing terrible
All of them add latency, and some of them output one frame for every two fields, harming motion quality. But then again, interlacing looks terrible too, so for turn based games it's probably worth deinterlacing.
Hey, I just got the same unit damaged too but not that bad.
They packed it with the screen facing up and the back of the monitor taking most of the damage.
It popped all those little plastic tabs out and cracked the back plastic housing.
Anyone got a service manual for the PVM-14M2U? I need to find the part number for the back plastic panel so I can maybe order a replacement.
Lucky for me I have a guy here that still works on CRT TV's and Monitors and he most likely will be able to fix it up a bit.
Is it possible to swap the screens of two different monitors that are the exact same model and year? One has less hours but a chip on the screen and the other has a perfect screen but a couple more thousand hours
The screen you're referring to is physically part of the front of the tube (the physical geometry of a CRT is essentially like a large lightbulb), so unless you're referring to some kind of bezel or protective plexiglass (some arcade cabinets have these to protect their CRT screens from scratches or glare), the answer is definitively, No.
I have a similar question to >>2904137 but with a few crucial differences
As can be seen in >>2901462 and >>2902568 I've got a BVM 20G1A with 4k hours but with transit damage to the casing - tube looks perfect. I also have a 20F1E with ~85k hours which also has some pretty nasty gouges in the tube AR coating but an undamaged casing
Can I swap the tube between these two to frankenstein a good monitor? I know there is a difference in TV lines (800 vs 900) but surely that's just the aperture grille density and they will accept the exact same internal signal right?
Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.
Think of it in these terms
You blow up your engine on your low mileage car. The replacement you fit is from an older higher mileage car but works fine of course. What does your odometer now read and does this magically mean the replacement engine has covered less miles than when you took it from the donor?
The hour (mileage) counter is tied to the monitor chassis (car) not the tube (engine). In fact most tubes got replaced around 30k hours so if your hours are higher than this it's probably on its 2nd or 3rd tube.
Thank for that great example. And the knowledge on replacement tubes. The monitor with the intact screen is a little over 34k, so I could assume that it's hopefully been changed. The other is at 28k so probably. I'll take a roll of the dice and go with the first, I don't have much of a choice anyway
Geometry and convergence? No idea, probably a fair bit as it can be time consuming.
Why not learn to do it yourself? Service menu and either 240p Test Suite or a setup DVD and you're away. Just remember to note down values before you change them so you know what to reset them to if you fuck up. Take it slow and be methodical. Try to think ahead and determine how the different adjustments are likely to interact with each other.
It's really not that hard at the end of the day and very satisfying to get everything just right by your own hand.
I've done convergence on old rear projectors. I will give it a shot. gonna call the shop on monday, will post the quote.
do all tvs have a service menu? my sanyo is off and im definitely not paying to have that fixed.
good to know I bought the 24" for a whopping $10.
Old guy was confused about my happiness.
found the service menu on the sanyo. turn on>unplug>hold menu button>plug in.
there is a bunch of numbers and letters. I'm a little overwhelmed. Where can I find a service manual or instructions for this. in one menu its just a blue bar across the center of the screen and it doesn't line up with the "notch" in the left side.
Can you take a pic of the service menu? Sometimes they can be a bit cryptic but usually decipherable without the manual.
If you really want the manual, let us know the model and I'm sure someone will point you in the right direction if it's available gratis.
Flat CRTs are much harder to adjust and by definition are never perfect. It probably would have added a significant premium to the price and Joe Public couldn't care less about it.
The best tubes for geom/conv are the "goldfish bowl" ones as featured in horrendously expensive Ikegami broadcast monitors. They look antiquated but really give a fantastic image when dialled in correctly.
Not VR related but it is is CRT related
Odd development...you know what looks kinda nice on a CRT?
The scanlines are very pronounced on skin/flesh tones especially more "amateur"-ish produced stuff. And if you are into it it kinda gives off an 80s porno shop vibe.
Currently watching (not fapping- background porn makes me surpringly productive while doing school work) a mid budget DVD video from 2005 featuring a few modern day stars when they were still working their way up and its kinda cool.
If getting into laserdisc wasnt so expensive and troublesome I might thinking about it.
most early dvd pr0n is interlaced, which make a crt more adapted for watching em.
But also most discs from this era have completely wrong AR, like letterboxed masterings, which wastes something near half vertical resolution.
I'm using an HP Pavilion mx704 from 2004 set to 300x400, as Shovel Knight runs at 400x224. Not the best monitor, but it works great for low-res stuff.
It would undoubtedly look better on a television than on a PC monitor, but it's much better than having it stretched to 1280x720 on LCD. And Shovel Knight does not have a 1:1 option unless the fullscreen resolution forces it.
So it would either:
-take one field, and display it twice. Skipping the other field essentially 30 fps.
-show each field on the same lines, still being jittery.
-average both fields somehow, and display them as 240. laggy.
If it's non-interactive then deinterlacer lag doesn't matter. I like the w3fdif deinterlacer in ffmpeg, because it doesn't try anything too clever and therefore never severely fucks up like fancy deinterlacers do.
Hey CRT guys.
So I'm going to soon be buying both:
14 inch - Sony Trinitron PVM-14M2A
17 inch HD - JVC DT-V1710CG
I'm likely going halves with a friend and I get first choice of which to keep for myself (Unless he loses interest, then I'm keeping both).
I wanted to ask, is there a far and away better of the two that should be my first preference?
I think they are both going to look wonderful.
Secondly, would it look good, or even be possible to connect a PC to it to run emulators or games like KoF98UM through it? Or would it be a massive pain in the ass and not even be the right res?
It's mainly going to be a Mega Drive, Saturn and maybe Dreamcast display. I'll even look into some other older consoles down the line.
Thanks for the information. Maybe it isn't so bad after all.
Too bad the other ones I see on ebay for parts are fucking $150 a pop.
How does /vr/ feel about retro gaming on a projector?
I don't own one myself but judging from what I've read about it here it's the second one
-show each field on the same lines, still being jittery.
If it has that it could be really useful to turn 480i ports of 240p games back into 240p, though. (Say CAVE games on Xbox 360 for instance).
Just about $300 on eBay, you might need a d terminal to component adapter and JP21 to scart.
Above review covers everything but tldr is its a fantastic low lag HDMI out 240p upscaled with scanlines (720p, not so Much 1080p) De interlaces 480i very well and 480p is satisfactory. Only down is doesn't handle 240p to 480i switching games well
I say for $300 go for a mini or the upcoming diy unit from marq, with a good low input lag IPS monitor or tv and get a broadcast CRT locally hopefully for cheap (under $100) when it's in your area. I own plenty of Crts and find myself looking for another one with lower hrs, better geometry etc. They are rarely ever without problems
The device itself is pretty low lag 1.5-2 frames, but don't forget that the LCD you're running it on will also have significant lag added to that unless you have a low response time gaming monitor or TV, both of which are usually expensive.
This could be an issue for some agreed
I use a MX279H with the mini and compared with a pvm using 240p test suite manual lag test I get just a bit more lag on the mini setup when I last checked
Not trying to start a xrgb vs CRT war but for $300 I'd rather get a mini over a bvm
Does your pvm have passthrough/outputs? You should try doing connecting your console to both the pvm and xrgb and doing the regular lag test, the differences will be a lot more clear
Depends on what games you play. For casual use and most users its no problem. If you're planning on playing games with frame-perfect tricks or doing speedruns or anything like that it's not a good choice.
The one drawback with using a PBM/BVM is the initial cost or the struggle of finding a good one, then if you really insist on using RGB outs you have to blow a ton of money buying the right cables and/or doing the mods to the consoles or paying for the mods to be done, which can add up quickly. If you're just planning on playing with composite or s-video etc. then you're fine.
Before you spend a lot of money or time getting a good broadcast monitor, maybe try a standard definition sony trinitron which can be found for free/cheap
thats what I did just got a 24" fd trinitron for $10 po even had the box. looks better than my sanyo flat and is going in to be tuned up on monday!
forgot to thank you for your offer.got the screen size and position set with the service menu but am afraid to mess with the rest of it. blue seems shifted on the right edge of tube but not too bad.
As a cheaper and not that much worse looking alternative if you want to stick with a crt, look for a sony trinitron with component in and get a csy2100, it's lag free and will let you use the rgb out on your consoles and convert to component. If you get one that does 480p over component you have that option too so it's a good alt.
Apparently that that piece of hardware is shit, a quick search on youtube will give you lots of poor reviews on it from anyone who cares about picture fidelity.
Also, converting from RGB to component/YPbPr pretty much loses many advantages of outputting RGB in the first place, at that point you might as well use s-video if your console supports it and there wouldn't be that much difference.
So I'm going to look at a few PVM-20M4As later and was wondering what I should be looking out for specifically with them since I'm clueless when it comes to this stuff.
They seemed to have been used as CCTV monitors so I assume there's a ton of time on them.
Should I be looking at the service menu to see the time logged on them?
Is there an internal test on them so I can see how the colour/brightness quality are?
I assume that even though it's an EU screen I should be able to switch it to 60hz?
>Should I be looking at the service menu to see the time logged on them?
Those models won't have hour counts on them.
>Is there an internal test on them so I can see how the colour/brightness quality are?
Nothing internal; It'd be advisable to bring something with you to test them with, even if it's just a game you know (the looks of) very well.
>I assume that even though it's an EU screen I should be able to switch it to 60hz?
Automatically handled, even. Shouldn't have any problem dealing with stuff with NTSC encoding(for composite and the like) either.
If they've been used for CCTV/Security monitors, there's a high likelihood there could be some burn in from reference timers.
If you can't bring something with you, the best you can do is mess around with the brightness and contrast while having the menu up and looking for tell tale signs of age, such as bars extending off of bright areas.
Disregarding the odd ringing, and moire, this is what it'd look like. With the monitor's menu up, it would extend off of the text.
Thanks for the help, really appreciate it.
It's pretty short notice so I don't think we'll be able to bring anything with us to test, trying to get to them before anyone else does.
I'm hoping that even though they're CCTV that they're still in a decent condition and I guess even a worn PVM is still going to be decent to play on. There's no way to plug in RGB without the breakoff connectors, right?
I live in the middle of nowhere in one of Canada's least populated provinces. I feel like my chances of finding a CRT that supports RGB is going to be impossible, let alone component or S-Video. Should I cut my losses and instead look for a PC VGA monitor instead? I'm only looking for a CRT around that size to put on my computer desk anyways, and retroarch plays really nicely with them from what I can gather.
All that cable does is take one cable/connector carrying many signals and separate them out into individual ones.
Technically, you could make a cable for any given system that already ends in the correct connector type (BNC in this case) and that would be able to connect up to it fine. Outside of making your own or commissioning someone to make one for you, you're not going to find one; That's if you just want to stick to the default av connector though.
>It's pretty short notice so I don't think we'll be able to bring anything with us to test, trying to get to them before anyone else does.
If you can stop at a store somewhere that sells BNC-RCA adapters, you could technically bring anything that can output composite and test it with that. If you have something that outputs s-video and a cable for it, you don't even need adapters.
Yeah we might just bring S-video to test. We're planning to go RGB > breakout later down the line but we couldn't get the cables in time since the monitors went up for sale a day ago.
I'm a total retard when it comes to this stuff so thanks for the help guys.
Sorry about that.
At the distance I play at, I really can't say I see much of a moire pattern on my set; The coarseness of the dot-pitch in the corners maybe, but that's about it.
There's actually a "Moire" setting in the menu, but it set so low, I doubt that has anything to do with it.
It's too cold to go back up to stare at it and actually look for anything, but nothing really comes to mind off the top of my head.
Maybe once it gets a bit less....frigid up in the attic, I'll take a look, but not tonight.
the most extreme, unterminated it was an eye burning overload
So I got this circa-2000-ish trinitron and its reds are way fucking oversaturated. I want to turn down the saturation, but only for reds while leaving the other colors normal. However, I fear that if I do that, I'll just fuck up the hue and end up getting weird colors, like yellows looking greenish or something.
Anyone have any experience with this sort of thing?
I have a pdf of the service menu, but unfortunately it doesn't really give any real definitions to to terms it uses
There's R Drive, R Cut, and there's also something called axis AKA "R-Y phase offset". Not even sure what that last one means, but as for the first two, could you explain what Drive and Cut mean in these instances?
>The JVC seems to be 720p, would that be a problem for 240p games or pre DC era in general?
Googled the set name. It It says multiformat, and lists a bunch of common scanning frequencies. Looks like a pretty great set for anything, including retro.
Will this work via S-Video?
From what research I've done any S-Video signal from a graphics card like that is 480i, so you still need to convert it to 240p. I also want to use component instead of S-Video if possible.
>have 3 old CRTs at my house
>1 is completely busted
>1 works but the brightness constantly flickers up and down for no apparent reason
>1 works but has strange bright spots and dark lines
Is it even feasible to try to repair these or should I just start looking for a new TV? I have some basic soldering experience replacing capacitors and stuff.
Terminating involes 'capping' the video out or other unused connectors on the back of the monitor. The 'cap' is basically just a dummy connector with a certain electrical resistance (usually bnc/75 ohm).
Some models require this and some don't (since these monitors were usually used for broadcasting/medical/security purposes, they almost always had something like another monitor or tape recorder etc. attached to it in addition to the source input). 'Newer' models usually don't require it.
Haven't been to a tourney yet, just have to gather the balls and the time to go to my weekly in NYC.
I'll play other stuff on it, just mostly melee
Maybe the 14inch ones, they're not bad at around 40 pounds. But anything over that would be ridiculous to bring to a tourney. 8inches is too small in my opinion
I'm aware, I've already messed with it
And here I thought I was going crazy and or my TV wasn't working correctly. Case in point, boot up Saga Frontier for the Ps1 and check out the title screen. Flicker all over the place.
Did he give an estimate on the work at all? I was looking at having mine worked on just because I dont have the time or expertise to do it myself.
But id rather not spend a fortune on servicing either.
Also just received this in the mail today. inline 31608HVA. Wont really be able to set it up until the weekend.
if your monitor has that little resistor symbol, it means it auto-terminates.
As a general rule, PVMs autoterminate while BVMs don't.
Thanks! It sounds like a good TV.
I also found out it has the following input options. I'm thinking S Video is probably the best bet?
The Sony will accept video over Component input, as well as 2 Composite video inputs and S-video.
The JVC has an SD-SDI card installed for 2 SDI channels. It also has 2 Composite inputs and S-video. The JVC also has a spare card slot for other input options.
Now i just need to find someone locally that can do the same for me. My monitor displays skewed, and i have to turn rotation almost all the way to 0, default is 100, in order for the image to be straight.
in doing so it seems to have really messed up the convergence in the upper right and lower left corners of the screen.
>The JVC has an SD-SDI card installed for 2 SDI channels. It also has 2 Composite inputs and S-video. The JVC also has a spare card slot for other input options.
The JVC RGB/Component option cards are apparently quite expensive and hard to come by, so it might not be the best idea to pick up.
15khz RGB (the one outputed by consoles) was usually carried by a SCART or JP21 cable (along with sound and other signals) because they were the most commonly available connectors for such signals.
But at core, it's only 4 wires (R, G, B, sync), so you can either make a custom cable for your console, or an adapter/cable that will break out SCART/JP21 into R, G, B, sync BNCs to connect to the monitor.
As a side note, many high end PC CRT had separate BNC inputs for R, G, B, Hsync, Vsync BNC inputs. It allowed better shielding for each signal, important for avoid interference at high resolutions. And before you ask, no you can't use them to connect a console, as these monitors are 31khz.
Thanks for that. I'm beginning to wonder if i should cancel the purchase.
It sounds like I'd need to not only buy a SCART cable, but also an adapter to get it to work with this Sony PVM (PVM-14M2A)...
Might be better off waiting for one that has a SCART input straight out?
Is S-Video comparable, or not worth buying a PVM to output with S-Video?
I wasn't sure how hard they are to find, especially in Australia.
The Sony doesn't sound capable of RGB apart from using the 3 cable solution. You're right though, I can upgrade to that later and use S-Video in the meantime. Ultimately it's not a lot of money for the two...
If I use CRT_emudriver or something similar to get a 240p resolution, would something like this carry that to the TV at 240p in S-Video, or would it turn it back to 480i?
So after waiting days to hear back about a 20" PVM the guy gets back to us and says he made a mistake, it's only 14" instead.
Anyone here own a 14" PVM, is it still worth picking up? Was dead set on a 20".
I've got a 1440QM. Picture is perfect and it's a great size for a small room. Found it at a university and it hadn't been used in 10 years.
If it's in good condition then it will still be a good monitor, just make sure it has the inputs you need.
Finally got a real camera, this is my first pic with it
Nah its alright, shipping is what caused my issues in the first place id rather avoid it, because the one I bought supposed what calibrated and when I received it, its wasnt terrible but not what I would expect from a quote "professional calibration".
It's a 20M4A so I'm good to go with inputs. I talked about it earlier in the thread but they were used for CCTV so I've no idea what state they're in. Seller said they're in "working condition" but also said they were 20" and then later corrected to 14" so who the fuck knows what state they're actually in.
shop said $50 is minimum service, but he'd tune up my sanyo and the fd trinitron for that after we started talking about retra.The Retron5 thinks its too much for a free and almost free tv but $60 total investment for 2 tv's seems legit.
feelin' pretty fly for a poor guy right now
Hey guys, does anyone have any experience with one of these? How is the quality? At my local electronics store I can get a converter for around $120, so the difference in price is making me a bit wary.
I've got a little Sanyo crt that looks as if it was made at the tail end of the CRT's lifetime. It only has composite inputs, though it does have a spot to install an s-video input. The picture quality is great with composite anyway.
I should be able to just use this to hook my pc up to my tv through this converter and run retroarch at that super wide resolution, right?
Am I missing anything or should this work fine?
I have one of these and like it, but only if you're outputting a resolution of exactly 640x480. It can interlace that just fine and it looks really natural. Anything higher gives you horrible hardware scaling, anything lower just flat out doesn't display.
From the audio side of things, If you're pumping audio through HDMI, the digital/analog converter on this thing does a great job, no worries there.
All in all it's not going to compare with the high-end products, but it's amazing for the price.
Are there any other TVs with this incredible design that aren't expensive/intended for pro use?
Sounds pretty good, my crt does both 576i and 480i. Can anyone confirm whether 640x480 is good for running retroarch through a CRT. I know there is some super wide resolution which gets brought up from time to time that apparently scales pretty well for crts.
Think there's any shot in hell of scoring one of these?
Also even though it's an hd CRT it would still work for retro purposes and there wouldn't be any lag right? So far the only ones I've found are busted, any idea why
Ive found a few working ones for outrageous prices, but apparently (learned from another anon on here) they had discoloration issues in the corners really bad, but its smaller brother the d24(etc.) doesnt have these issues.
Also I believe theyre minimum resolution is 480i so it upscales 240p dont quote me on that though.
>480i so it upscales 240p
At least as far as the monitor cares.
Nearly positive any of the MultiFormat sets that display their current scanning resolution will report 240p as 480i.
They should be operating on the same general circuitry as the D24, which definitely does 240p fine.
Someone posted a photo of a D32 on shmups a day or so ago, which doesn't look too bad; Has a bit of discoloration, but still.
Do PVMs have a way to store user setting profiles? I keep having to majorly adjust the screen geometry when I switch between certain systems, it would be nice if I could at least store a configuration or two somehow...
Ah. All I ever see is the 2030, which doesn't have it. I didn't know there was a higher spec monitor in the same series.
>He doesn't have a scart-ready pvm
[spoilers]not that I have one either...[/spoilers]
Ah well, guess I'll just have to soldier on with my
4k hour BVM-20G1...
No, I'm not
And I just got it back today. All the damage was repaired to the back panel. He also inspected the neck board and the power board for any signs of damage and couldn't find any.
On a side note, I have my PVM hooked up though composite right now (All I have). I have the video out hooked up to my PC to a capture card. As soon as I did that, the picture on the PVM got dimmer.
Is there some sort of option I need to enable so the video isn't so dim when using video out?
If the picture on the 20F1U is good, it's worth that money IMO. I'm in Aus though, and prices here are inflated. Still, if you don't buy it, you';ll always wonder. I love my BVM, and I'm glad i spent the money i did.
Added to which, I've never seen anyone come in here saying they love CRT but the Framemeister gives a better picture than a PVM-BVM. Or not anyone who actually made me believe it. There are, however, a few people claiming the opposite.
A PC CRT will. If what you're talking about is an SD set for retro gaming, then anything that connects easily (composite or S-Video from a graphics card, say) looks like shit and isn't worth bothering with. After that you can get a signal converter to take VGA to Component, say. Those aren't too bad, but they do introduce lag
I do my own RGB mods, and I output directly to BNC.
Even if you don't do that, BNC termination also makes sync stripping/combining a lot easier depending on what other hardware is in your setup.
True enough, but you're less likely to wear out/get loose BNC connectors on the monitor than you are a SCART connector. Fixing/getting a replacement SCART->BNC cable would be less hassle than replacing a worn/loose SCART connector on the PVM itself.
I can completely understand not wanting to have that extra cable lying around though.
Not something you're gonna find with PVMs, but BVMs will, especially those that have a separate control unit.
Is it unnaturally dim?
I wonder if it's possible that the capture card isn't terminating properly and is causing the problem.
So what's the best strategy for acquiring a PVM? How did most of you guys get yours?
Can't find one locally on craiglist, so does this mean ebay is my only option? I mean, I guess when it comes down to it, I'd bite the bullet and pay $150 for one, but I'd so much rather be able to find one in person to get it cheaper, avoid shipping costs, and most importantly be able to test it out and make sure it's not fucked up.
No PVM, but one of my pro monitors was bought on ebay then shipped to me and the other was obtained from craigslist.
I don't keep up with monitors very much, but if the trend-hopper crowd has latched on to PVMs and the like then the market is doomed to spiral out of control. With that in mind, you might be wise to find a good online seller with a history of selling monitors and go for it.
First PVM - Anon tipped me off to an medical supply company on ebay
Second/Third PVM - Anon wanted to get rid of them, 100 mile or so drive to get them. Still need to work on the 14M2MDU though.
Megaview - Luck on craigslist that either no one thought to contact the guy, or that they knew he was a bit of a creepy fuck and didn't want to deal with him.
I STILL wish I knew who delivered the 20M2MDU.
Not sure if you replied to the wrong post or what, but:
While converting from 240p->480i/480i->240p could cause quality loss and/or input lag, this isn't the case with such a monitor. It isn't doing any converting; 240p is at heart a modified/non-standard 480i signal, so the monitor sees it as such. Despite what it says the signal is, it'll be displayed the same way any old SD TV/Monitor would.
>big lot of old video equipment (not monitors) on craigslist
>even some extron stuff
What sort of pieces of equipment would a CRT enthusiast want? I see a bunch of splitters, switches, special effects generators, scalers, filters, etc.
Very tempted to just get it without knowing what to do with any of it.
They also have their own website for this sort of thing.
I remember an anon contacting them some months back, but I don't believe they ever got an answer.
Either way, they don't have anything up currently, and anything liable to go up will be considerably more expensive, either just to increased demand or because they're paired with other equipment. I will say that they certainly know how to pack CRT's properly; So much bubble wrap.
I (as well as a few other anons) grabbed these back in 2013; Wonder what condition the other monitors from that lot are currently in.
Thanks for the advice re 240 and 480.
I'm new to this so want to learn as much as I cab to get the best picture.
Hearing how tough it is to find PVMs, I'm happy that I managed to find the two I did!
Alright guys, thanks for the (You)s.
For now I suppose I'll wait it out and keep watching on craigslist for something to pop up.
In the meantime, some of you mentioned how prices are going up and such. I can only assume this is because all the oldschool gamers (just like me) are getting in on this. I'm not sure how quickly things are changing, but with this in mind, is it still a good idea to just sit around and browse CL for a long time? My fear is that the longer I wait, the harder it will be to find these and the higher the ebay prices will be.
Ebay as a last resort. Shipping damage is a real pain in the ass.
Don't listen to anyone who says to check with TV studios or station engineers. They trashed their CRTs years ago, and even if they didn't they couldn't be arsed to contact you back. I left emails/messages with probably a dozen local TV stations and never heard back from any of them. I mean, I guess it's worth a try, but don't expect much.
I also wasted untold amounts of gas checking out pawn shops, secondhand stores and the like. Don't bother.
Craigslist is really your best bet. Where do you live? These things are way more prevalent in some areas, obviously. Some kind anon here tipped me off on this great app called IFTTT. You can set it up to alert you via phone or email whenever a new item is posted within certain search parameters on Craigslist (it works way better than craigslists built in alert system). You'll usually get the notification within 20 minutes of the item being posted. This helped me score a great monitor for free, within in hour of home. It was a lucky break, but I never would have been the first response to the ad without IFTTT. It's a great app and does a ton of other shit, too.
That said, I spent over 3 fucking years searching for one of these things, on and off. You learn to check a wide variety of search terms. "PVM" is a good term to use, but also more generic stuff like "sony monitor" or even "sony tv" or "broadcast monitor/equipment". You may get a lot of false alerts, but sometimes the people who put this shit up don't know anything about them.
Yeah, I noticed all the local pickup PVMs on ebay are all in places like southern california. Totally makes sense.
Thanks for the info on the app. Any other search terms I should consider?
You mentioned not to bother with studios/station engineers. What about places like hospitals? I know they used to use PVMs for their equipment way back when. But I'm assuming its the same deal where they would've tossed their shit a long time ago.
>Any other search terms I should consider?
The one that I got actually was listed under "SD monitor", although he mentioned Sony in the description, so it hit under my "Sony monitor" search. He didn't say "PVM" once, so it's not always a good term to hang your hopes on. Could also try throwing "CRT" in as well.
I've heard people having more luck with hospitals than TV studios, for sure. It's certainly an option. Not sure who you would want to contact there, specifically, but maybe check out a website, see if you can find some kind of engineer or technician on their personnel list.
Depends on what advantages. PVMs just have a better picture quality and can take RGB input. But if you're just looking for a good-enough TV that doesn't have issues with 240p and no input lag and all that stuff, any CRT will do. Only real determining factor for that is what inputs. Some only have RF, some composite, some S-video, and some have component.
>Do I need a nice PVM to get the CRT advantages people ITT talk about?
Nope! Get a nice consumer CRT and you too can experience the joy of retro games. There are plenty of good models, but the eternal safe bet is any late-model Sony Trinitron. They're not too hard to come by. What sort of systems are you looking to hook up to it?
>Later stuff like the Dreamcast and Saturn.
Is that all? The Dreamcast looks absolutely gorgeous in 480p. You could hunt down a nice Trinitron or Viewsonic PC monitor and get an one of the VGA boxes for the DC, which is the absolute best way to play it. If you really play the Dreamcast a lot, that's the way to go. Unfortunately, A PC monitor will likely only accept VGA, which means it won't be good for other systems unless you buy a translator box for them, which is a whole other can of worms.
I feel like I'm making this way too complicated for you, though. Make sure whatever set you find can handle S-video, and pick up S-video cables for your Saturn and Dreamcast, it'll look a million times better than composite. That's the best mix of quality and convenience.
This is true. with standard def, there's going to be deinterlacing shenanigans which are a big part of the problem. 480p on an HDTV is fine. I prefer using an HD CRT for that stuff, but it doesn't REALLY matter like it does for 240p/480i
>Takes RGB/Component/S-Video/Composite PAL/NTSC
Pretty good. 13" is good for desktop use, not so great from the couch. Definitely worth $50-$100 depending on the condition of the screen. Test it if you can.
I just got an 8045 and the image is just about perfect except for the convergence on the blue, on the bottom it's fine, but on the top it's ONE line (two when it's progressive) over where it's supposed to be and it's super annoying. Will a purity adjustment be enough, or will I need to do a ton of fiddlefucking with it?
Can anyone tell me how to fiddle with the PVM14m4a menu? It's been a long time and i've forgotten
I need to know especially how to save changes
i think i set everything to the defaults last time but the underscan is super wonky
Like rf? Why bother rf is shit/ a pvm is not a TV it does not tune in. I'd you mean a digital TV signal all you would need is a set top box with whatever outputs you wish to use (composite/s video/scart) then hook those up to your pvm.
So I was just given 3 PVMs of the following model numbers:
Currently the 144QM is picking up colour through S-video but the 14M4E & 1450QM aren't and the picture on all 3 doesn't fill the full display both horizontally and vertically.
I've tried looking at a few service manuals and it seems like to resolve the issues with the colour and picture I need to correct it with certain screws on the motherboards?
Am I just completely retarded and missing something or can each of them not have the H&V of the image changed through a service menu?
I don't see why it wouldn't work. It should theoretically be like back in the day routing cable through your VCR and using that to change channels and shit, and the TV just acting as a monitor.
Of course, I'm also not sure why you'd want to
try just a composite rca cable and see if the colour works. Also check that blue only is not pressed.
the 14M4E is the best by far on that list. Start with that one. Here is the service manual (the 20M2 is very similar, this manual covers all the '##M#'s'). This monitor also has a digital setup so barring a major problem you shouldn't have to take it apart. You can read more in the manual but basically:
- press menu then once in menu degauss and enter at the same time to get into service menu
-there are usually 120 settings you can flick through with the enter and menu buttons and change with the up and down buttons.
-note the mode in front of the setting: nor def 60 is normal definition 60hz, u/s is underscan mode etc. When changing a setting if you can't see any change to the picture it's probably because you're not using that signal atm, there might be a way but i'm pretty sure you have to turn off the pvm change to that setting then go back into the service menu to see that signal/mode while you change it (remember to save your settings).
-a list of the 120 settings and their standard settings (not always the most ideal setting necessarily) are in the service manual. I would suggest having it handy in case you forget what a setting originally was.
- nothing is saved until you press degauss twice in a row, this saves all settings not just the one you are viewing currently. You can turn off the monitor without doing so and everything will be back the way it was.
- obviously H is horizontal and V is vertical so you might want to change the settings for H size/center and V size/center first
- use 240p suite if possible (either on a flash card or emulating from a wii) to make tweaking the picture easier. Check between the grid view and the linearity view (the circles should be circles/The red boxes in grid view are your overscan, they should be right on the edge of the screen or not seen depending on your preference and what consoles you're using).
Yeah we're in the service menu and have tweaked the picture a little but we're still getting B/W on the 14M4E & 1450QM even after testing PAL & NTSC consoles. The status screen shows the colour as being in B/W so I'm assuming there's an option somewhere we're missing.
Weird thing about the 144QM is that we can't seem to get into the service menu at all regardless of button combination.
my BVM is way lighter than my pvms (which are newer)
Help me out, I'm trying to hook up a Philips MSX2 to a pvm via rgbs breakout cable. The same method works fine on my BVM but rolls constantly on my PVM 14M4A >>2917665 and can only itermitently find the RGB signal. Anyone seen this before?
>The same method works fine on my BVM but rolls constantly on my PVM 14M4A
Not that I can help, but where do you bet the rolling? Is it totally constant or do you only get it on boot/"in-between" screens? My 8" rolls any time nothing is displayed or the Konami logo.
I figured it out. I was getting rolling anytime there was a picture. I had a thought that my MSX2 (NMS 8245) might require csync or something so I took the sync cable out of my scart - rca adapter and into the composite output of an scart output breakout adapter I use for separating audio from scart and that worked.
Alright, so I've had a bit of bad luck with Dreamcast VGA. A while back I bought a VGA box, and I returned it because I thought it was cheap/defective, because I was getting this jailbar pattern across the entire screen. Recently, I tried an (admittedly cheap) cable, and I'm getting the exact same problem. I also poked around with 240p test suite and it appears that there's some sort of weird color convergence-type problem where a smear-like duplicate image appears below where it should be, as in pic-related.
Anyone seen anything like this before? I can't really find any info on it. And I've had the same issues with two separate purchases (a box and a cable) so this leads me to believe it's a problem with the dreamcast itself.
Mine is one of the original rev0s. Not sure if that matters.
And here's a picture to show the jailbar effect. The picture should just be an even checkerboard.
Apologies for using an LCD to show this. I don't have my older CRT monitor with me here.
does the framemeister work for gamecube, wii and ps2 games?
My retro games look great on the my crts, my modern games look great on my 27 inches pc monitor, but I have to choose either 480i on a crt, or playing them on a 1080p monitor for ps2-wii games.
I got an old Dell CRT monitor from work recently. They were going to throw it out but I tested it and it works (connected to PC no problem) so I offered to take it home with me. I think it's like 19", nothing fancy but hey it was free and it doesn't seem to have problems. It just has a VGA connection so I was wondering how I would go about connecting that up as a CRT screen for my retro consoles.
I'm just starting to get back into retro gaming and RGB video and all that stuff, so I don't have a lot of hardware. I have the SCART cable for SNES and a basic HDMI upconverter which does the job. What cables/hardware would I need to output my SNES to that monitor? I'm planning to expand outward to Genesis/NES/N64/whatever in the future but I want to start with SNES since it seems the easiest to begin with (without hardware modding). Is it possible to just get a SCART to VGA cable or would it need signal conversion? I'm pretty new to this part of the tech
you could use a dvi to vga converter. There is the hdfury but I've read the cheap ones are more than fine
not sure how all of this would like desu, you're really better off with some sort of linedoubler, a modded/syncstrike gbs 8220 and an SLG
>mfw Goodwill doesn't carry CRTs anymore and I can't find any on Craigslist
Is it time to pay that shipping fee?
Anyone know if pic related is any good? KV-13TR28 is the model I think. My boss had it up on craigslist for $35, but he's offering it for me for $25. I'll be picking it up this monday.
I've been in the market for a good, compact 13 inch with stereo audio and a curved screen, but I don't want to invest in a PVM just yet.
Hmm, I just got my PVM and I just hooked my front loading NES into it. On black screens, down in the lower left corner there seems to be slight rainbowing.
Nothing else like this shows up for any other system so whats up? Is it because I have my NES sitting on top of my PVM?
NVM, figured out it came with BNC to RCA converters! Wheee, I'll get a SCART to BNC converter and SCART cables for all my consoles!
I got it working on my Mega Drive with Composite cables, but it didn't look amazing. I think that's just because composite is bottom tier connection.
Guys, I'm super excited.
The other monitor only takes 'Video in' BNC (I assume that's composite), SDI and S-Video. Best option is S-Video I take it?
Post a pic. Not sure what you are talking about, but I think I might know what you're talking about. If you can, play SMB3 and see if you see something similar going on when you reach the black screen at the end of a level.
So I've figured out I'm going to need SCART cables for my Saturn and MD (and maybe PS2).
Is it worth going to retrogamingcables .co.uk to get these? I can get some Hong Kong ones for cheaper, but I understand that quality difference can be quite noticable for SCART.
Anyone purchased from there before and can verify it's worth dropping the extra money?
I'm thinking it would be worth it since these are analogue cables, not digital so quality might actually vary.
I paid 60 for mine on ebay
>30 for TV
>30 for international shipping to Canada
has a built in DVD player and remote. I think 25 is fine. Most CRT's that are <20" don't have stereo audio or lack specific inputs and features.
Probably a good deal.
It wasn't that one specifically, my 13" is a lot nicer.
I browse craigslist all the time and they are always 26+ inches. I wanted a small one for my desk.
Craigslist is always just people who don't want to deal with a big ass TV so they post it. I've seen a 20" once in months of browsing. Most people are posting big ass rear projection or 30" inch with a stand or something else.
Obviously craigslist is the best for getting a free TV, but it's not like paying 60 bucks for a TV is any kind of insane purchase.
>this was a while ago.
This whole retro games + PVM monitors could have a 350 page book written about it. the price lurch is astounding, Like I could actually watch the prices rising over the months of both products
Phew, these cables are expensive. Also anyone know if the kind of sync makes a huge difference?
Trying to get my head around it all. I think I'm good to go.
Also my PVM has an EXT SYNC plug, so I'm guessing if I get the SCART to BNC converter with a SYNC plug I'm good to go?
S-video on a PVM actually looks good enough to not even miss SCART imo...Ive got the cables but because of lack of switchers and shit I just use the classic connectors and use the hardware on the tv to switch back and forth between consoles or VHS/DVD whatever.
>browsing CL for the longest time looking for PVMs
>after the longest time, two listings finally pop up
>one is a 14" PVM for 70 bucks and its nearby... but seller won't respond. FUCK
>the other is a tiny 8" piece of shit that the guy wants 300 bucks FIRM for because "lol it was like 10,000 dollars back in 1997 this is a deal!"
forever consumer CRT
my friend bought a sony 16:9 480p trinitron for $100. Wasn't used basically, just sat in the store forever. They wouldn't budge on the price. We even waited 2 months to see if they'd lower it and they said no. Still bought it though. I hate people sometimes.
Damn, I would never go for that. Around here, people just throw out trinitrons like they're nothing. Of course, all the ones you see for free on craiglist are also in the 36" category and weigh 300 lbs, but hey.
Luckily my father never threw out any of the old family CRTs (including a 480p trinitron) because he's a huge AV nerd and prefers them for his standard-def content. So whenever I visit home, I always have a suitable TV to use, and I'll probably end up taking the 480p one off his hands somewhere down the road and use it for GC/Wii, etc.
Is there a way to find/filter 4:3 content on youtube? Most of it is 480p or below. I'd love finding more 720p 4:3 content or even 1080p if it exists.
What cable should I be getting to connect consoles up via BNC?
I seen a Female SCART to BNC on retro gaming cables but it's listed as SCART/JP21. I should be able to use this consoles on various PAL & NTSC consoles without issues, correct?
14 inch - Sony Trinitron PVM-14M2A
17 inch HD - JVC DT-V1710CG
Look like great condition, apparently they were both calibrated and put into storage a few years ago. Bought from a film maker who got then when he worked at the ABC. Price includes delivery from ACT to Sydney as well.
Unfortunately I only have composite cables right now, but buying s-video and scart soon.
I heard the jump from composite to s vid is massive, and after that it's much less noticeable.
Thanks! I'll avoid HK cables. Link to this eBay site? If it doesn't have what I need I'll go to retro gaming cables UK instead.
I'll look for local sellers for s-vid.
here's the control panel on the other side, pulled out. this one is just protected by a screw
So I understand Wii VC can output at 240p! Anyone tried this with a CRT? Good option for when you only want a handful of games for any given system/convenience?
Does it with with home brew too?
i will eventually get these two. I'm eager to know how good they are. I already have a BVM, a Commodore 1084s and a Panasonic M2090Y. Currently, the BVM destroys all of them. I guess it will stay this way. There's no way you know these units and their quality?
First thing I thought of.
Just to throw in my two cents about rgcUK, I bought an SNES and PS1 cable from them. Both seemed to have an issue where as I played, the image would occasionally flicker to a warm or cool tint. I thought it was my monitor at first, but I didn't have the same problem with my Genesis or Wii, so I figured it had to be the cable. Tried to crack open the ends to see if there was a loose connection or something, but I couldn't find anything. I ended up just buying one from the ebay lady and they've been fine so far.
IMO Wii VC is patch yas fuck. Some games work prefect, others it just doesn't seem to have any options for. I've tried that A+Z+1/2 on different games and it rarely does anything at all, and i can SEE it's in 480i due to the flicker.
Emulation is a much better bet for anything console related. The emulators will let you set a 240p output - save WiiUAE which i can't get out of 480i mode. Any help on that last would be great :)
these are Barco CVS-51 studio monitors. According to the seller they're "class a grade". According to this site they're "High-grade color video monitor with Quad decoder."
Doen't sound too bad ... I know they have RGBS input. I'm eager to know how good they really are.
Would anyone have any idea why when i try to run my playstation multiout to scart(sync on pin 6) to bnc directly into my BVM the sync works, but if I try and run it through my Inline Matrix switch the sync isnt being transmitted?
Ive tested other consoles through the matrix switch such as an SNES and the sync is fine.
>class a grade
Not if they've been used. Use degrades them. BVMs were Grade A when new, but as the phosphors decay they drop grades if you'd care to measure them. Of Ikegami's two current CRT offerings, one is Grade A, and twice the price of the Grade B one.
I wonder if this might also be the reason, or part of the reason, why some screens appear whiter when off. As in, due to a better phosphor coat. My BVM is quite a bit whiter than my other 20" PVM. The PVM is actually brighter when on though, so not sure.
sure, if they've been used to death their picture is degraded. Unfortunately most of ebay sellers are not able to get into the menu where the runtime is shown. It sure is a shot in the dark. But aside from that i'm very interested in the quality of these things.
How does a PVM use the same inputs for RGB as for component? Just hit a button and it switches function...is there a circuit board converting component to RGB? Could such things be harvested for use on a large 'Tron?
PVMs were Grade B at best when new, so calling those Barco fishbowls Grade A right now implies they're in immaculate condition.
They do look awesome though, so i hope they are :)
yes, of course. But it's not easy/ Essentially any colour CRT is running R, G & B to the corresponding electron guns. Most SD TVs apparently do run RGB to the neckboard or at least have it somewhere on the chassis, and there are projects online where people have managed to feed RGBS to sets that didn't have the inputs natively. I seem to remember the term "Jungle IC" being thrown around a bit.
/crt/ would love to hear about anything you learn or any success stories though :)
>I've tried that A+Z+1/2 on different games and it rarely does anything at all, and i can SEE it's in 480i due to the flicker
Weird. I tried doing it and my VC games seem to automatically display in 240p, when available. Every Genesis/SNES/game I brought up was automatically in 240p. I couldn't seem to get any N64 games to run in 240p, those were jammed in 480i. Although I imagine if your TV actually supported 480p, that would be the way to play them anyway.
I am in PAL land, so it might be that. A lot of the other VC titles have slowdown issues for PAL. At least I hope it was that.
Using emulators was much easier and actually lets you play with the options - why would you not want that? It's like fricking SW:BF coming without a server browser.
Crap, forgot picture. This is just an example of an 8" one, I have no idea what specific model it is.
Like I said, if anyone would recommend me a bigger PVM that would be great.
Just moved and I'm looking to get a new CRT. From Craigslist, I'm looking at a few nice ones near me but I have some questions not addressed in the OP.
>Is RCA a decent manufacturer?
>What's the deal with flat and curved CRTs? Is one inherently better than the other?
>I'm looking to use Component. Do newer CRTs that support it suffer any scaling or processing issues?
>Like I said, if anyone would recommend me a bigger PVM that would be great.
Okay. Get a bigger PVM. Hah. In all seriousness 8 inches is pretty tiny. It would work if desk space was a problem, and if you were going to be sitting right up to it, and I bet the small size of the screen would actually make 240p images look super fine, but bigger sizes are better for most applications. 14" can work, but most agree that 20" is the way to go, since it's the largest size commonly found.
In this market, most can't afford to be picky about specific models. I quite like the 20M4U I came across. Has pretty much all the functionality I could ask for, outside of 480p.
>Is RCA a decent manufacturer?
>What's the deal with flat and curved CRTs? Is one inherently better than the other?
Some people like flat screens. Larger flat screens tend to have/get geometry issues.
>I'm looking to use Component. Do newer CRTs that support it suffer any scaling or processing issues?
High-Scan and above will scale.
I managed to find a work around. Apparently the sync board in the matrix does like the sync levels coming from the ps1 composite pin. So if I just use a different input and put the sync on one of the RGB board connectors it properly sends the signal. So just have to use two inputs/two outputs for the ps1.
Definitely glad i got the 16x8 matrix now the extra inputs/outputs are coming in handy.
Thanks! I'll wait for the week and see if she is back.
In the meantime I'll get s-vid for my ps2 and Dreamcast.
Any advice on brand/seller for s-vid?
I understand there's a lot of trash floating around.
>interested in a PVM for auction
>only image is of the thing not turned on
>seller sells tons of old AV equipment and such, and the listing is full of weasel boilerplate language about it being "as-is" even though it's in the "used - item is fully operation but may have signs of use and wear" category
>don't want to return after the fact because it would cost me just as much to ship it back as buying it in the first place
Really nervous about going for this, lads. But it'd be a hell of a deal if it works.
I game on an 8-inch BVM sometimes. 8 inch is a decent desktop size, but I'd only buy one with an HR trinitron tube (I think the PVM 8045Q and 8044Q are the ones). 450 TVL is enough to make retro games look plenty sharp, and the entire-screen view you get with a desktop CRT is pretty
comfy[/spoiler. Considering they're half the price of even 14" PVMs, I think they're worth it.
Buy an oled or plasma instead. Next to no input lag on a good set in game mode. It'll last longer, not warp the picture, be slimmer and larger. You can turn on interlacing on nearly any plasma as well if you want to see dithering.
sony fd trinitron wega is the best consumer but any old crt with some adjustments is okay.
how do I take decent pictures of a screen?
When it comes to buying RGB monitors for gaming (such as the Sony PVM series), does it matter if it's a Sony brand or not? I found a JVC one pretty similar to PVM's with an RGB/component input, and I was just wondering if there was any difference.thanks.
Not really. Sony is the most prevalent brand discussed here, but JVC stuff is very nice. The big difference is the shadow mask vs. aperture grill, which if you aren't already aware of it won't make a lick of difference to you, I guarantee.
I go to a broadcasting school that has a couple of JVC monitors in the editing room. They're really nice in terms of depth and color.
My RGB scart cable works just fine on my PAL snes, but its very very dark on my super famicom.
Do I need the JP21 (or whatever it is) version ?
I'd bump up the brightness, but I cant get a universal remote to work on my trinitron.
>My RGB scart cable works just fine on my PAL snes, but its very very dark on my super famicom.
PAL SNES needs 75ohms to ground and then 220µF capacitors between MultiAV and TV.
NTSC SNES or SFC goes directly without any components to the TV.
So the excess load resistance (these 75ohms to ground in the cable) will attenuate the signal thus it appears darker than it should be.
You simply need a another cable or modify your existing cable with switches.
>Do I need the JP21 (or whatever it is) version ?
This depends on the TV/Monitor and has nothing to do with the consoles.
You simply need switches that can close one circuit but at best you need 2 switches that can close 4 circuits (a quad pole switch) for RGB and composite.
At first you need a switch to being able to activate these 75ohms resistors to ground and then switches to short these capacitors.
With this you can easily disconnect the 75ohms from ground and bypass the capacitors.
You could also use 2 pairs of switches of a single pole (commonly referred as SPDT) and triple pole switch and use the single pole switch for composite and the triple pole switch for RGB. That would make it compatible to the PAL GC.
So, I get that people want to use CRT TVs to play retro games. No issues there. I'm just a little curious what you use to connect to the TVs to maximize quality? Aside from professional monitors, most older CRTs only have composite inputs (maaaaaybe component or VGA). I know there's a ton of free/cheap CRT TVs in my area on Craigslist, but what's the point of outputting pure RGB from the systems without a high quality video input? Or am I just mistaken, and the only overlap between highest quality and CRT is a PVM? I want to get involved again in CRT gaming goodness but I want to be clear on what I should be expecting
I just remembered the pattern of how the video cables need to be.
What I mentioned applies to every video signal output of all these consoles that use that 12pin MultiAV port in general but there are 2 exceptions:
NTSC SNES, SFC does need the capacitors on the RGB lines and PAL GC doesn't need the 75 ohms on RGB.
So you might just use a quad switch for the 75ohms to ground and a single pole switch for the composite capacitor.
and all this requires soldering knowledge etc ?
it's such a tease because i can see how nice it would be if it had the brightness and contrast levels proper
i tested it on a modern sony hdtv and it had the same problem
>and all this requires soldering knowledge etc ?
You're better off getting your PAL SNES modded. There's not much compatibility to lose against a authentic NTSC console if SuperCIC is used and diodes on the controller board are bridged. There might be a few games that are sensitive to the different timing ratio between the CPU and SPC (sound subsystem) like Earthworm Jim 2, as the CPU is slightly different clocked (21.47727MHz vs 21.281368MHz, and the SPC clock is 24.576MHz on both).
With that method you can use one single SNES for both NTSC and PAL games and of course the same cables as well.
I'm pretty bummed out over this, but its kind of funny because the reason I own a PAL snes is because the SFC came fucking shattered in the post and I bought the pal one for a case swap.
If I get the 50\60hz switch mod will the 60hz stuff be in fullscreen?
I honestly didn't mind playing turn based stuff in 50hz over my everdrive, but the fullscreen and lack of thick juicy scanlines that the PAL output didnt bring me wasn't so nice.
>If I get the 50\60hz switch mod will the 60hz stuff be in fullscreen?
Of course. The reason for the black bars on the top/bottom are that 50hz has 50 more lines than 60hz where around 24 lines are invisible because they get drawn beyond the borders of the screen (which is correct that way, game devs usually honored overscan).
However, keep in mind that games with S-DD1 and SA-1 will not work with the generic lockout mod unless you use SuperCIC.
>lack of thick juicy scanlines that the PAL output didnt bring me wasn't so nice
This rather depends on the kind of screen (shadow mask vs aperture grill) and how good it's calibrated (focus, convergence). The scanlines of non-interlaced 50hz look just as good like 60hz ones to me on both my 14" and 24" Trinitrons.
>However, keep in mind that games with S-DD1 and SA-1 will not work with the generic lockout mod unless you use SuperCIC.
many will without supercic if the mod is done well. The 2 SA1 jp kirby games work on my pal modded snes (i can't reset but I don't care since the games have soft-reset). I also have Dragonball Hyper Dimension which doesn't work, but for this one I just opened the cart and desoldered the regional check pin of the SA1 and left it floating.
I'm guessing official cables are safe? Like the official Sony S-Video cable for PS1,2&3?
Dreamcast I can ONLY find Composite/S-Video combined. Will they work okay if I plug in both yellow composite and S-Video or is it just a trash cable?
Is there a particular brand I can trust?
>and not an s-video/composite hybrid cable
This is a myth. Having composite is not what causes shitty s-video cables to have worse quality. It's the lack of shielding between the chroma and luma lines that causes problems.
It just so happens that a lot of hybrid cables are just low-quality and tend to also have poor s-video shielding. But the composite is not the cause.
official is safe yes. any recognizable name brand will be fine as well.
get a vga box with s-video out for the dreamcast. the official ones are spendy but ive never heard any bad stories about the 3rd party ones
I didn't suggest the composite was the cause.
>It just so happens that a lot of hybrid cables are just low-quality and tend to also have poor s-video shielding.
So the cause is a myth but the result is the same, hybrid cables suck, don't buy them.