Holy shit this game is hard. Don't get me wrong, it's

>viii
>hard
>harder than iv

u wot

>>2888973
Maybe it's hard if you play it the normal way, I wouldn't know, because it's insanely easy to break.

Get the Enc-None ability as soon as you start the game. No random encounters, you never get exp and level up, enemies and bosses stay low level thought the game too.

Synthesize the best spells like Zombie and Curaga early in the game from the items bosses drop, junction them to your stats, become ridiculously strong.

You can walk through the whole game without ever even playing Triple Triad.

FF8 is easily the most exploitable game in the series. As soon as you have a grasp over the junction system and the mechanics for refining spells and items, you can curbstomp everything in the game without grinding for a single level.

Then there's limit break spam. Due to an oversight in how limit breaks are triggered, liberally canceling your turn will grant you infinite limit breaks as long as your HP is at critical.

The setting was pretty cool though. And I liked the Laguna sequences. FF needs more mature characters.

>>2888996
>The setting was pretty cool though.

really? I found it poorly planned and wildly inconsistent.

>>2889002
I think that's the charm of it. It is a myriad of weird and fantastic stuff, somehow coexisting .

>>2888973
Why didn't you play V after IV, exactly? Just asking, it seems weird to skip around like that.

>>2889019
This statement confuses me as I see no real reason to play the Final Fantasy series in chronological order except for if you want to experience how game design has changed over the years, or something like that.

>>2889018
>I think that's the charm of it. It is a myriad of weird and fantastic stuff, somehow coexisting .

No. I just mean it's poorly conceived and idiotic.

>No TV signals but working space program

>>2888973
Unlock Siren's Card-Mod and get 100 Tornadoes. Equip all 100 Tornado spells on Atk-J for Squall.

>>2888996
All RPGs need more mature characters. It's always a breath of fresh air to get a party member who's not in the 17-25 demographic.

>>2888996
Let's not call it an oversight. Do you really think they don't rigorously play test a Final Fantasy before launch?

>>2889293
Sort of like the real world, huh?

>how does Somalia not have tv but the US has a working space program!?

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>>2889293
>No TV signals
What? Doesn't one of the major events take place at a TV station?

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>>2888973
I never found it hard. Just drawing magic was a huge pain in the ass. And the final boss was time consuming.

>>2888996
The game's meant to be that way though. Rather than being a grindy JRPG, they tried making one that rewarded you for knowing what you're doing and being able to plan ahead and experiment. The end result is that everyone hated it and practically demanded to be given back mindless grinding, lol...
And that's what landed us where we are now with FFXV, AKA: "GTA clone with Kingdom hearts combat and RPG elements as a technicality."

I'd take FFVIII any day, because it's at least unique amongst the hundreds of mainstream JRPGs (and RPGs in general) that are literally just mindless grind fests, or third rate action games with RPG elements.

FFVIII is at least an actual, traditional (in a sense) console style RPG, but manages to mix things up for jaded assholes like me.
Maybe that's it though. Maybe I like it so much because I'm jaded. But who cares. I found an RPG that has a world and characters that I like, with gameplay that rewards me for being smart (without being an SRPG)

Call it broken or exploitable if you ant, but it's seriously not. FFII is exploitable though. Hitting yourself to raise your HP, and cancelling attacks 100 times in a row in one fight to raise up your weapon level in minutes. THAT'S broken and exploitable.

FFVIII just isn't, unless you're a great player, or you read a guide your first time through.
You may not recall this, but I was actually playing FFVIII back when it came out, and what I remember is that everyone initially hated it because GFs made combat too easy, but then immediately hated it instead because that strategy couldn't get them past the disc 3 boss, lol...
No one called it broken, unbalanced or exploitable until a few years into the 200's, after some extensive guides had come about, and the general public started effectively cheating to win. That's their own fault, not the game's.

>>2889293
>No TV signals but working space program
There's a reason for that.
There's a very powerful sorceress sealed in a 'tomb' that's floating in space. Despite being sealed, she still has enough power to interfere with broadcast signals.

>>2889657
Specifically, they get the TV station up and running again (a notable event by itself) specifically for the announcement that Seifer crashes.

>>2888973

is this a double dog dilly bar reverse switcharoo ebin meem?

>>2888973
FFVIII isn't for everyone. It's easy to get too caught up in it's systems, and rendering yourself a god by learning how to do so. And if you try a more balanced run, it feels more like a standard RPG, with a slow build up.

Also, it has grinding, but not in the traditional sense. You grind up AP and draw magic. But then again, refining magic is the best way to go after the first few hours, and people who whine about drawing are just doing it wrong.

The best way to play is this:

>Don't rely on GFs
>refine magic, rather than draw like a dummy
>when HP is low, spam the cancel button till you get a limit break
>learn magic refining and stat junction skill first. Worry about more abstract skills later
>ALWAYS draw from bosses. Most GFs are gained this way.
>Build Squall and Zell for strength first and foremost. They're your absolute best damage dealers, and will be doing more damage than GFs in no time at all.
>play the card game and or learn the card skill. Cards can be refined into magic, and this is vital to the whole system.
>don't think that you can't or shouldn't use a spell because it's junctioned. if you NEED it, then use it. You can always refine more later. In fact, most spells, you have SO much of what you need to make it, that the whole "b-but it's junctioned" argument I literally fully retarded.
>Upgrading weapons is not as vital as you'd expect, but still a good idea to do befoe the last disc

There's more, but I don't want to ruin the game for you.

>>2889657
>What? Doesn't one of the major events take place at a TV station?

yeah and it was a huge fucking deal that they even got it running at all. There's almost no wide spread long distance communication at all but we got shit like hoverboards

FF8 isn't a finely crafted living breathing world, it's a bunch of twats making up whatever sounds cool at the time

>>2888996

This

It's not hard at all, and to the contrary it's the easiest FF to end up over-powered.

VIII is probably the comfiest FF world to live on, minus the monster-shitting moon and the brain-dead teenage mercenary dropouts.

>>2890201
The soundtrack's also one of the most comfiest

>>2889805
final fantasy being unrealistic? how surprising..

>>2889338
What is so bad about early to mid twenties? Isn't that when you should be going out into the real world anyway?

It isn't like a game with high school characters which would mean 18 and younger being trained for combat.

>>2888973
farm t-rex at the start, turn dino bone to quakes, junction quake to str or hp

game is easy til disk 3 and you can junction holy,ultima,flare or whatever by then.

the only hard bit is omega with its 3/5 attacks in a row bullshit.

if you have pc version and manage to break the game you can junction apocalypse which is better than ultima. luck gets bugged aswell with that exploit so you get rare items on disk 1.

>>2890243

Hold up buckaroo. quistis is one of the oldest party members, she's 18

>>2889805
>>2889293
These guys don't fucking know the lore!
The FF8 world DOES have TV signals and they worked just fine up until about 17 years before the game starts, when a critical historical event occurs, resulting in persistent worldwide radio interference. But it's still possible to broadcast television if you use a strong enough signal.

>>2890205
Breezy is my ringtone

If I'm noodling on the guitar I was quite often end up playing it without realising

>>2890370
Without a guide most people in a first play wouldn't know how to break it through carding/modding, at least until late into the game.

Squalls 255% accuracy and spamming cancel to achieve limit break is bs though.

Someone else mentioned before but the game does lure you into just spamming gfs early on, which becomes an untenable strategy late game.

My main issue is that there aren't any optional superbosses other than Omega. Ultima is a complete joke.

Was it ever clearly explained why Irvine remembers the party but didn't say anything until way late in the story?

>>2891116
The garden he went to didn't fuck with GF so he didn't have his memories devoured

>>2890893
wow, same man, it's so addicting I could just play it for an hour straight

>>2891116
because reasons. FFVIII had so much potential. it hurts.

>>2891428
it realized that potential in every aspect

>>2891431
with a convoluted plot that's hardly explored in favor of a mellow love story?

>>2891438
what part of the plot is convoluted? it's perfectly understandable and it's also the ground for what is literally the best fan theory ever conceived

>>2891440
all the plotholes, inexplicable stuff like Squall falling for Rinoa or otherwise stupid shit like >>2891116.

and I agree, the fan theories are more entertaining than the game itself. THAT's wasted potential.

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>>2888973
>it's still amazing

>>2891452
What plotholes?

I swear, reading these threads always go the same way.

>ff8 sucks!
>"why?"
>because of the plot!
>"what about the plot sucks?"
>it's so confusing!
>"what about it was confusing?"
>how convoluted it was!
>"what was convoluted?"
>the plotholes!
>"what plotholes?"
>....man, the fan theories were great though, amirite?

>>2891649

What was Ultimecia hoping to gain through time compression?

>>2889019
Not that anon but there isn't continuity between the games so it doesn't really matter which one you play.

>>2891649
I'm not gonna waste my time reposting something that's been discussed to death time and again. I'm pretty sure a quick Google search will net you all the many reasons why the plot in FFVIII is convoluted. Feigning ignorance will only take you so far.

Regardless, my point still stands. FFVIII is wasted potential: the game. It'd have been so much better if they focused on Ultimecia instead of Squall and Rinoa, or at least canonically made her Ultimecia, covering many plotholes and actually making the plot coherent, not to mention more interesting.

Just imagine fighting all of your friends to protect Rinoa. Bonus points if by maximizing the junction with a particular GF (probably Bahamut or Diablos considering Squall's affinity) you could break free of her spell, multiple endings, etc.

>>2891116
>Was it ever clearly explained why Irvine remembers the party but didn't say anything until way late in the story?
He says he never brought it up because everyone else had forgotten.
>>2891452
>inexplicable stuff like Squall falling for Rinoa
What?

>>2891723
Squall never hinted liking Rinoa, then, all of a sudden, she's the love of his life and worth dying for.

that's pretty fucking stupid unless you consider it was right after she gained her 'powers'.

>>2889338
That's exactly what I think because holy shit VI and VII were filled with bugs, stupid oversights, and balance issues. There isn't much of a difference between not being playtested and being playtested by people who are shit at it.

>Seifer dreams of becoming a Sorceress's Knight
>joins SeeD, an organization dedicated to killing Sorceresses

>>2891758
>was adopted by SeeD against his will
>fails his training

I see no inconsistency here.

I always get shit on by people when I say this is my favorite FF. Its so breakable, but if you resist minmaxing out the ass, the game is enjoyable from start to finish, and it has the best RPG minigame of all time.

>>2888973
FF8 is the hardest game in the series if you play it like any other RPG. You have to know that leveling not only doesn't make you stronger, but makes you weaker against some bosses. It's such a beginner's trap.

>>2891415
What happened to all the other students when the army took over? I don't imagine Ultimecia would take the chance of letting random SEEDs run around and prophecy her shit up.

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>>2891868
>and it has the best RPG minigame of all time.
I will fight you.

I think the only way RPGs can be hard is if it's setup in such a way that grinding can kill you and regenerating your HP and mana is expansive. Maybe iam wrong, but in other RPGs i would just grind easy enemies until i was strong enough to move on.

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>>2892580
Not op but, I played BoF IV three months ago and FFVIII multiple times since release so maybe it's nostalgia talking, but I remember Triple Triad being the best mini game ever ever.

>>2891659
Becoming a living god.

>>2891685
>i'm not going to waste time linking to other people who were similarly ignorant and had their complaints debunked too
>i also can't be bothered to voice my own gripes with the game even though I posted three paragraphs of crap avoiding the issue
So, you come to a retro game discussion board to let us know how you don't have the time or wherewithal to discuss retro games, huh? The hell are you doing here in the first place then?

>>2892584
>regenerating your HP and mana is expansive
Persona 4 called.

>>2891659
not that people realise the series actually does link in places, this is to do with the void, ultimecia would have remade the world or just destroyed it if you lose.

>>2890918
spamming gf's works til about disk 2, and there is a flying school and tutorials at the start of the game, no excuses.

Don't level your chars up. Enemies become stronger with your level.

Training G.F. and drawing magic is all that matters.

>>2892720
Also some of the more crude nes RPGs like FF1, although it's kinda broken

>FF8
>hard

top fucking kek

It's probably the single easiest FF.
>draw blinds in garden training zone
>equip to Stat Attack J
>enjoy your guaranteed blind vs Diablo, he literally can't kill you now
>spam Draw Demis on him, enjoy your free GF
>get Enc None
>use Card Mod on cards and items to get insanely broken magic to junction for your level, which will be like 15 on Disc 4 with Enc None

>>2892592
I liked it when I was younger but after having gone back to play the game again the AI is really bad and always makes the same plays so you literally can't lose if you know the pattern.

>>2889748
>FFVIII just isn't, unless you're a great player, or you read a guide your first time through.
>You may not recall this, but I was actually playing FFVIII back when it came out, and what I remember is that everyone initially hated it because GFs made combat too easy, but then immediately hated it instead because that strategy couldn't get them past the disc 3 boss, lol...
>No one called it broken, unbalanced or exploitable until a few years into the 200's, after some extensive guides had come about, and the general public started effectively cheating to win. That's their own fault, not the game's.
This is accurate, when that game out not a lot of people knew the million and a half way to break everything and playing the game without a guide is a very interesting experience. I'm honestly just slowly waiting until I forget as much as possible to replay it at this point, everything about the game was actually incredibly interesting.

>>2892706
>debunked

I'm pretty sure the consensus is still the same. The plot gets incoherent way too often and the game takes one too many excuses to be retarded, like Irvine not telling the group they used to be friends and Squall instantly falling for Rinoa outta nowhere. It also cannot decide whether to focus on a generic love story or a convoluted plot and does a poor job at tying them together.

And I've stated my one, big gripe with the game over and over again: FFVIII has a mediocre story that could've been great. They wasted a great setting and cast.

>>2891415
>>2891723
>Irvine never thought to bring up that he immediately recognized the party
He intentionally went full on beta because he didn't want to be awkward?

God forbid he doesn't come in like this
>"Hey Squall, Zell, Quistis, and Selphie. How have you all been? How long has it been?"
>"What's wrong, don't you remember me?"

>>2893268
that would be the expected reaction considering how much of a sweet talker he is.

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>>2893264
>I'm pretty sure the consensus is still the same.
It's really not. I'll tell you exactly how every one of these conversations go.

One person (you) sits there bitching about how confusing the game was or his perceived plot holes. A couple of other people who one and done'd the game chime in and agree with you. Then people that actually liked the game and played it multiple times to really savor the story come in, correct everyone and shut the conversation down as the folks like you skulk out of what had previously been a favorable echo chamber.

Irvine explained why he didn't tell the group. I mean, what do you suppose was the right time for him? Right before the mission of him and his amnesiac childhood friends to go murder the possessed woman that raised them all? SURELY that couldn't have had a negative impact on said mission, could it?

And Squall and Rinoa was a slow build-up, but if you weren't spamming the dialogue skip button you'd have seen it.

>I haven't forgotten your order. Just stay close to me.

Squall was introspective and rarely spoke, so in lieu of the general RPG male protagonist who buffoons around the woman he falls for (see: Laguna), he just appeared cold to all of her advances while his actions and occasional words spoke otherwise. When she was finally taken from him, it was the jar to his system to break out of that protective shell and be proactive. But claiming he "suddenly" fell for her? It's as empty a complaint as those herpaderps who insist that the GF memory loss came from out of nowhere when it's explicitly thrown in your face all game.

I mean, this game wasn't very heavy-handed with the subtext. How bad was it that it still went over your head?

>>2894210
>Irvine explained why he didn't tell the group. I mean, what do you suppose was the right time for him? Right before the mission of him and his amnesiac childhood friends to go murder the possessed woman that raised them all? SURELY that couldn't have had a negative impact on said mission, could it?

This. Didn't Irvine even have a sort of panic attack when the time to face Edea actually happened and it turned out that he couldn't take the shot against Matron? I mean, he ultimately got talked into it, but that's the sort of crisis (along with discovering that your past and memories were all stolen) that probably could've waited for the entire team till after the job was done.

Of course, afterward they were in a desert prison being strapped to walls and tortured, so that wasn't exactly the best time either. And then immediately after, the enemy garden was going to launch nukes at their home, so THAT probably wasn't a good time either...

Come to think of it, there really wasn't a great time before he actually did come out with the information that made sense. Fisherman's Horizon, maybe, but by then he'd been with them for what had been a painfully awkward amount of time to not say anything, and the subject being broached at Trabia was the perfect pretext for talking about it.

>>2894210
you seem too invested in a fictional character.

VIII fags are the worst out of the bunch. I don't see XIII fags trying to rationalize every mistake in their shit game

>>2894243
I dont see you trying to rationalize why you think your opinion matters, yet you still posted.

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>>2894243
>get btfo
>"y-yeah, well you like the g-game too much!"

The game has flaws, but the plot and character progression are not among them. If you desperately want to autistically bash a game without anyone correcting you, there's always:
>>>/v/

>>2894210
>Irvine explained why he didn't tell the group. I mean, what do you suppose was the right time for him? Right before the mission of him and his amnesiac childhood friends to go murder the possessed woman that raised them all? SURELY that couldn't have had a negative impact on said mission, could it?

Irvine was a charmer, he wouldn't shut up about it the moment he saw the group, specially Selphie or Quistis. He would definitely, at some point at least, bring up their past in some way.

The fact he didn't simply 'because' goes against his personality and the tone set by the game. It's a shitty rationalization that diehard fans like yourself use way too often.

>Squall was introspective and rarely spoke, so in lieu of the general RPG male protagonist who buffoons around the woman he falls for (see: Laguna), he just appeared cold to all of her advances while his actions and occasional words spoke otherwise. When she was finally taken from him, it was the jar to his system to break out of that protective shell and be proactive. But claiming he "suddenly" fell for her?

Squall thoughts are made very clear throughout the whole game. Never once, until Rinoa gains her new powers, he showed any interest in her. Squall was so indifferent towards her that he couldn't even be bothered to recognize her as an annoyance.

It wasn't a defense mechanism, he simply didn't care, and even if it was that's not how his recovery would play out- it'd take months for him to develop such a trusting relationship.

Another reason why people shit on the plot, because it's retarded for the sake of a generic love story, not a good trade-off.

>FFVIII
>Hard

LOLNO. I had to grind all the way up to lvl 100 just to make the game semi-challenging.

>>2894286
>Irvine is girl-crazy ergo he should've had no problem spoiling a mission he'd been trained decades for and undermining the confidence of its operatives by letting them know they'd be pitted against their surrogate mother

I don't know what one possibly has to do with the other, but if your gripe is that these characters are too three-dimensional because he doesn't immediately and always adhere to a "charmer" stereotype even when it would be wildly detrimental and damaging to do so, then that sounds like an endorsement for the game, doesn't it?

>Squall thoughts are made very clear throughout the whole game. Never once, until Rinoa gains her new powers, he showed any interest in her. Squall was so indifferent towards her that he couldn't even be bothered to recognize her as an annoyance.
The hell he doesn't. Replay it. Leave her in your party, read all the dialogue, it's presented pretty frequently and clearly that he was developing an interest. It didn't get externalized until her coma.

I'm guessing you also think he hated the rest of the party and was mortal enemies with Seifer too? Let me ask you though. Did you click through all the dialogue, or has it just been a really, really long time since you played and you're responding off of what you remember?

>>2894341
VIII has a special place in my heart. I went through some weird experiences in my teens and Squall knows all about my dirty little secrets, so trust me when I say that my memories of the game are fairly vivid.

Irvine, despite his insecurities, was a charmer. Being so worried about the mission that it ranks above his childhood friends is unfitting with his personality. He clearly doesn't mind making small talk throughout the whole operation, except the fact he shared his childhood with the rest of the group in a foster home never comes up. This is /really/ unlikely and comes off as a stupid device to advance the plot. Following your logic you could also argue that, by not mentioning their past, the mission would be jeopardized. I also don't understand why he'd still act like a clown if the assassination was so high in his priorities.

Squall is always cold to the point of not even acknowledging the group. The reason for that is debatable but the dialog never implies that Rinoa is any more special than the rest of his friends. Squall always hints affection at one point or another but that doesn't mean he's gonna jump off into space for Zell. Regardless, that's not how a traumatized person would come out of their shell, it'd take months for Squall to begin trusting Rinoa. The way things played out is simply not realistic, 'three-dimensional' like your argued Irvine is, and that implies poor writing; it's fine for Irvine to be realistic and sperg the fuck out even though it'd feel cheap and forced in that particular scenario, but Squall can take some artistic freedom and skip various stages of mental healing?

Hell, even if that was the case which, again, is extremely unlikely, it'd imply Squall is even more fucked up and his relationship with Rinoa is abusive and would ultimately end up bad.

>>2894210
>>2894286
Somehow you NEVER hear complains about Tifa not saying the truth in FF7; but Irvine in 8?! That's just unacceptable.

Don't tell me there is a difference because there really isn't.

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>>2894565
And yet, despite your expertise, you've missed so many key points.

Irvine, despite being a self-assured charmer worried enough about the mission that he was initially unable to even take the shot. This game is all about characters with layers and putting on masks. When the pressure came on, his charmer facade fell aside and he was that kid being called on to shoot his mother. It's the moments like that you should be looking for when you try and understand their motivations. Not the surface garbage like "lel he's flirting with selfie and quistis!!!1!!" All of the characters have layers, and the mistake was on you for assuming that there was a plothole because you assumed one of them was completely one dimensional and lacking depth.

Further, you acknowledge that Squall is traumatized and that his growing affection was touched upon. So, it seems like your quibble is when he finally acted on it. I'd say Rinoa being ripped from him much like Ellone was (the source of both his silent introspection and his desire to push people away) was perfect storytelling motivation for him to shed his protective shell and make himself vulnerable by acting on his feelings.

It wasn't a sudden affair, it was the sum of all his character development. The jaded and lonely kid who'd had his mother and father taken from him, and then grounded himself with his sister, until she was taken from him too, and even his surrogate siblings. He'd erected wall after wall to keep everyone out and not rely on anyone or make himself vulnerable to any attachments ever again. Despite that, we have Rinoa constantly chipping away at said shell and pushing him toward holding on to someone. We saw tiny concessions made for him, which I get seem very trivial to a healthy individual or yourself, but were huge leaps for him. Leaps that the other characters and Rinoa noticed. And when she was stripped away from him too, it was the final and major catalyst for his change.

>>2888987
>You can walk through the whole game without ever even playing Triple Triad.

But anon, that's the only reason to play it in the first place.

Jesus Christ, these arguments are dumb.

The game isn't worth this much text.

>>2888973
I'm one of the few people on the internet who actually plays FF8 the right way. I don't abuse the junction system and make godlike characters, I don't play cards, I don't synthesise shit, I get most of my magic from draw points.

Ignoring all the powergaming wank, the game is still quite easy. Can't imagine what you're doing wrong. Are you having trouble with any specific part? Maybe we can give advise that's not 'just go full cheapo and break the game, you cretin!' for a change.

>>2894714
You don't realize how opposing those two statements are, do you?

In one hand we have Irvine, a 'realistic, layered and 3D character' that, being so well-thought, goes, by chance, against everything his personality stands for, despite that suspiciously coming out as a device to advance the plot. Let's also ignore the fact that the logical reaction from someone as insecure as him would be to seek approval from his peers in killing their mother.

On the other hand we have Squall, a traumatized character that can somehow skip, again suspiciously as if only in favor of advancing the plot, many steps in what would otherwise be a painful and long healing process, defying all logic of the human psyche. If this was the case however, Squall would be in an abusive relationship with his own sister, not that he ever cared so much for Rinoa before the complete 180.

All of this reeks of poor writing. The setting hardly allows for deep, multi-layered and terribly damaged characters, so you're either projecting or the writers went for pretentiousness. The inconsistencies will be there regardless. I'd rather believe, instead of rationalizing them, that those holes are just that, holes, which brings me to my original point:

FFVIII is wasted potential: the game. It could've been whatever is that you're trying to paint it to be if it wasn't for the incoherence between the sikdark time compression and generic shipping plotlines.

>>2894757
"What his personality stands for?" For the umpteenth time, are you really complaining that these characters are complex and occasionally drift outside established and cliched tropes?

Does it asspain you terribly that in addition to being a bully, Seifer believes in honor and heroism? How much does your lip curl every time the comic relief Zell comes up with something introspective and thoughtful to say?

It seems like all of your complaints are founded in your own ignorance and some weird need for the characters to be as shallow as you want them to be, and frustration when they aren't.

>"How can Irvine have thoughts and motivations as complicated as a real person when ALL HE IS is a charming ladies man? Why does he have these existential crises like he's well-written? Why does he keep information to himself that would fly in the face of what a one-dimensional character would do as though he were written with depth? CLEARLY the problem isn't with my flawed understanding of these characters, it must be shitty writers who were trying to make one dimensional characters but sucked so much that they gave them compelling depth and often contradictory motivations. Sucky writers, what a dumb game."

>turned out he couldn't take the shot

am I the only one who noticed edea casts protect in that cutscene? he had the headshot, if he remembers at that point or not.

>>2894769
You're obviously too protective of this game to consider any criticism anyone may have, it's like you're dead set on that angle because FFVIII is the underdog.

The problem isn't Irvine being complex, it's his complexity suspiciously coming off as a device and the inconsistency with Squall's character which is all but well-thought considering he can defy Freud. These imply fanfiction-tier writing because, logically, you can't have both. No matter how you put it, it's a hole, which is only the more evidence pointing that the plot is indeed incoherent.

>Does it asspain you terribly that in addition to being a bully, Seifer believes in honor and heroism?
No, Seifer, intentionally or not, is a great character. FFVIII would've been a lot better if he was the protag, hence wasted potential.

>How much does your lip curl every time the comic relief Zell comes up with something introspective and thoughtful to say?
Well, not much considering that's a very generic JRPG-ish thing to do with a buffoon such as Zell, which in itself kinda points to another inconsistency because Seifer is so much better than that.

This thread is making me want to replay the game.

>tfw never finished the game
Probably never will. Middle of 3rd disc was enough for me. I eventually got to this point of "What the fuck am I doing? I don't even like this, why am I playing it?"

Not saying the game is bad, it has some unique ideas, I just don't like it.
If they ever release a Laguna-only version of the game I'd play through it, those were the only fun and interesting parts in the game for me.

>>2894781
It's not criticism I take issue with, it's flawed criticism. Of the copious issues this game has, the one real strength was character development and depth. You've singled out the thing the game is celebrated for as your issue for why it's so awful.

>"man, i really like the plot and character development of Super Mario 3, but the platforming sure was weak!"

I've never seen someone miss the point so aggressively or thoroughly before.

> the inconsistency with Squall's character
You've never given a single example of that. Even you conceded that the game gave numerous showings of his feelings deepening for Rinoa. I mean, is your issue solely that he's unable to fully overcome his abandonment walls until she's taken away from him and put in danger? Also, for all your buzzwords about Freud, his internal monologue, fear and abandonment-based issues and every other facet of his character is strictly Jungian, not Freudian.

>No, Seifer, intentionally or not, is a great character. FFVIII would've been a lot better if he was the protag, hence wasted potential.
Why? You keep making these sweeping generalizations with absolutely no back-up or justifications.

If you don't know what the hell you're talking about, as it's quickly becoming apparent that you don't, just say as much. But quit sitting there making everyone have to coax an explanation for the crap you claim and don't support.

See: >>2891649

So what's the consensun on the Ultimecia-FutureRinoa debate, was it actually her in the end?

>>2894836
No. All the points in favour of that theory are based on misunderstandings of the game.

For instance there is the idea that Ultimecia's castle stands near the orphanage, where Rinoa told Squall she would be waiting for him.
Except that, Rinoa saying that was a foreshadowing how they'd both find each other during the ending, in the middle of time compression fucking up without Ultimecia controlling it.
Besides, she's referring to the field near the orphanage, which is not where you access the castle from.... AND on top of that, it is wrong to say that the castle is on top of the orphanage. You do access the castle via the orphanage, via ONE of those giant link chains, but the game shows you that there are many other of those giant link chains, meaning that the castle is connected to the coast near the orphanage.... just like it is connected to many other places in the world.

This is just an example but all the points of that theory are like that. Same for the Squall is dead theory.

>>2894828
You're not seeing the bigger picture. Let's assume you're right, that Irvine's actions are the result of a well-thought character and Squall is so well written that he's suffering from a severe trauma that would make Freud raise an eyebrow: ultimately none of that is fully explored. Irvine's meltdown is resumed to a tap on the back and Squall's abusive relationship with his would-be sister is never shown, instead ending on a happy note whereas it would tie the witch plot perfectly by making Rinoa Ultimecia.

So, however you put it, it's still poor writing and, ultimately, what I've been saying from the start: wasted potential.

>the one real strength was character development and depth
Like I just showed you, both of those things could've been explorer to far bigger lengths, hence wasted potential. It only gets worse if you consider all the evidence implies that the character depth and development are simply devices to advance the plot that you've mistaken as such.

>you've never given a single example of that
Squall's character isn't realistic because no one could recover from his mental state so quickly. This is inconsistent with Irvine's character which, according to you, is as complex as a real human being.

>Even you conceded that the game gave numerous showings of his feelings deepening for Rinoa
Yes, just as much as it did for the rest of the cast. If anything I stated multiple times that the notion of Squall falling for Rinoa is ridiculous.

>is your issue solely that he's unable to fully overcome his abandonment walls until she's taken away from him and put in danger?
With Squall? That his development doesn't make sense unless he's severely damaged. With the game? That it didn't reach its full potential.

>his character is strictly Jungian, not Freudian
I'm not sure you know what those terms mean. Anything can be Jungian and/or Freudian, it's just a way of looking at things.

>Why?
Because Seifer is a tad more interesting than Squall as it is.

VIII is the hardest post-SNES Final Fantasy if you don't break it by abusing its game mechanics to produce unintended effects. Which, mind you, is possible in every FF and most RPGs.

>>2894227
Oh right, the prison. That was the time Irvine left all his childhood friends to die, right? I mean, if he'd only known them for the duration of a mission it'd make sense but the story tells you he'd known all along. Bullshit.

Let's be real, they were making it up as they went along and either didn't check for continuity properly or weren't good enough at their jobs to recognise that as a plothole.

>>2894749
This is OP, I'm stuck on Seifer in disk 2. My characters are around level 30 - 36. Is this any good?

>>2894873
Both 9 and 10 are way harder than 8, junction-breaking aside. I've done a no-refining run before and leveled at a normal pace, even with a touch of grinding, it's still a breeze.

People neglect to use everything at their disposal, GF abilities like Recover and Mad Rush are handy. Summons themselves are amazing even just as a damage sponge, magic is also incredibly useful if you aren't terrified of using it. Only issues are some of the dream sequences and side areas.

Oh yeah, and actually upgrading your weapons bit by bit instead of jumping to the final ones is a big help.

>>2894886
>dream sequences
that god damned key...

>stuck seifer disc 2
many options here, cast aura spam limits(or low hp way), gf spam (they take damage for you too), draw cast haste on everyone, dispel his buffs if any, and apparently he's weak to poison so status-J some bio. or cast.

>you're playing the game wrong by abusing exploits
is the seed mission even possible to 100% without some early boosting?

>>2894886
IX is way easier though if you know you get abilities and magic from equipment.

>>2891659
Ultimecia is persecuted constantly because she's a witch (and a titanic bitch, but mostly the witch thing). In a time compressed world, only she would be able to survive due to her witch powers, so she would no longer be persecuted. Sure everyone else would be dead, but if she cared about that she wouldn't be a titanic bitch would she?

>>2894885
I would love to help you, but the seifer fights are some of the easiest bosses in the game...

Let me slap out some basics. Junction curaga to your health. Junction your most powerful spells to attack, then the next most powerful ones to your defenses. Don't use GFs in combat. Use aura, spam limits. Use zell and either rinoa or irvine, not quistis or selphie their limits are too weak and too unreliable respectively. Upgrade your weapons.

I can't really help any more than that, I was always disappointed that seifer was such a pushover...

>>2891659
>>2894932
In this game past, present and future are interconnected because of time travelers.

Ultimecia knew that a "legendary Seed from the past" would come to kill her. It was fated. She thought she could escape fate by controlling space and time itself, little did she know that her own doings and time compression would be the mean used by the Seed to access to her timeline.

Squall is dead.

I for one will never discuss this game. I don't have any faith in FFVIII's translation quality and when a story is this convoluted and impenetrable, that becomes crucial.

The nips have it easy, I wonder how their threads go.

>>2895019
I can tell you right now Japan loves each and every final fantasy game, with Fabula Nova Crystallis series games being their favourite.

NA always seems to want to climb all over themselves to pick the worst FF and are much harder to read because their least loved entry vacillates between 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 11 and 13 (which is nearly half the series).

>>2894952
She created her fate by going to the past and getting the ball rolling with Laguna and company in Esthar, then creating a time-loop by going back in time again to transfer her powers to Edea

She made the whole thing unavoidable.

>>2894885
I don't really remember that one even happening. Been too long to give any specific tips.

>>2894938
>Don't use GFs in combat
Can't say I agree with this, though. GF spam may not be an optimal strategy but it is an easymodo cheeseomatic strategy that works for the majority of the bosses in the game. Sure, it'll fuck you in the arse against certain bosses later, but at that point in the game GF's ought to make bosses pretty easy, right?

>>2894889
>is the seed mission even possible to 100% without some early boosting?
Sure is. None of the hard things about getting a perfect rank are stat-related.

>>2888973
>he doesnt exploit the junction system

>>2894885
Lvl30 is the last gap of the game. This is the lvl when you can finally get the best magics out of drawing, so this should help.

Have you learnt GF abilities letting you turn items into magic? Check your item list, you may have some useful shit to convert.

>>2894885
don't go around leveling up like this is some traditional shit

>>2896338
I have completed ff8 like 6 or 7 times using most party combinations.

GFs are a waste of an action slot, a waste of time in battle, a waste of square buttons and quite frankly a waste of your time.

You can spend 2 days waiting to summon eden then hammering that square button to do 18000 damage, or squall can deal 9999 five times in about 2 seconds with his WORST renzokuken. Then follow it up with lionheart.

If there was one thing I could fix about FF8 (my favourite game of all time) it would be the summons. They just aren't worth doing. If they were stronger, didn't take up an action slot and, I dunno, one use per battle or something with them taking time to charge up based on their power or something they would at least be usable, but when zell can deal over 999999 in a single limit break, you need to have a reason to use them.

Everyone I know who doesn't like FF8 used GFs in combat. Everyone I know who likes FF8 didn't use them. Don't use GFs. Value your time more.

>>2899056
that fits with me
I liked FF8 and I never summoned GFs

>>2888973
Try saving the game after exiting the flying garden only to find you have experienced a rare glitch and have become stuck in it's rings and have to start over. Difficulty max.