Here we discuss our favorite type, theoretical buffs for said type, and vent our butthurt at Gamefreaks apparent hatred of it.
Here are some fun ideas for buffs
>Hail provides either a power boost for Ice moves or a stat boost for Ice mons
>Blizzard becomes a duration-trapping move (Magma Storm but Ice)
>Ice now resists Flying and Ground
>moar megas for Ice mons. There are probably fewer Ice megas than there are for any other type. Mega Mamoswine or Weavile would make me happy.
I kinda like where you're going with the trapping. I think Ice could be really niche and powerful if instead Hail, when activated by an Ice-type, becomes a trap for anything that isn't Ice-type.
Or if that's too OP, then maybe Blizzard launched during Hail becomes a trap.
Could be a cool way to stop emphasis on Genies and Garchomp and Gliscor in the meta.
I never even considered Hail becoming a trapping weather. But yeah, that'd probably be too OP, especially since you'd have to do the same thing with Sandstorm.
I feel it would just make sense for Blizzard to gain the damage-dealing trapping effect considering, well, blizzards tend to last a while and make navigation damn near impossible.
All Ice moves have a 10% chance to freeze
the user if they are not Ice-type.
Mega Mamo with Fur Coat
There, no need to even buff its defense & just add to the Attack & SpDef
I like it. It should have at least +10 in Speed though. Maybe even +10 - 20 in Sp. Atk too because that's generally how the buffs are distributed. Wouldn't hurt, since Freeze Dry is that good of a move and Rotom-W is a cunt
I don't know why everybody thinks a hail buff would be helpful, the other climates are already pretty close to unusable (outside of TTar, mega zard and maybe down, but they work because the mons the climate is attached to is great even WO) and they're way less restrictive team building wise
It's still by far less useful than the others.
>+50% Sp Def boost to Rocks
>Offensively useful abilities in Sand Rush and Sand force
>Chip damage on all but Rock, Ground, Steel
>Powers up fire
>Offensively useful abilities in Chlorophyll and Solar Power
>Powered up Water
>Swift Swim sweepers out the ass
>Perfectly accurate Hurricane AND Thunder
>Chip damage on all but Ice types (actually a pretty good deal)
>Perfectly accurate Blizzard
>Defensive abilities in Snow Cloak and Ice Body. Would be alright if Ice types actually had some resistances
By buffing hail even marginally it would at least become as useful as the others. Even just introducing some sweeping abilities like all of the others get, thus utilizing the typing properly.
Using Ice moves against a Fire mon causes SE Water type damage. Sort of steals Waters thunder while being risky at the same time. Going for a Fire&Ice duality theme
I'd like to see Hail get retconned into an entry hazard a la SR if it's too OP to include that effect as part of the chip damage weather condition. Ice types are slow so I'd like to see it's offensive side properly utilized with a "free hit"
The freeze status permanently makes pokemon mono-ice type.
Instead of making ice good, taking advantage of the fact it's bad to inflict it against others as a detriment. Meanwhile actual ice types will remain moderately decent as they are built with their ice typing in mind and retain their secondary stabs and few resistances.
REMOVE ROCK WEAKNESS
to steel makes some sense, it's obviously much harder and people have been using it to cut ice since... well since the bronze age
but rock makes no sense imo. it was only there to balance it in gen I, since the ice types that did exist at the time were either neutral to fire (lapras and dewgong) or to fighting (jynx and articuno)
Both could "shatter" ice types, the same reason fighting is good against ice. GF seems to think that all ice types are actually made of ice, even though only the avalugg line, regice, glalie, and cryagonal are really made of ice. Most of the other ones are just Pokemon that are adapted to living in the cold, hence the reason the fire weakness makes sense.
A hail buff would help dedicated reams, but there really needs to be more reliable hail setters. If there was a pseudo that could put down hail, then that would go great with this. Kind of like that and sandstorm.
buffing hail also leads to a lot of stale designs as it encourages everything to have snow warning, snow cloak, ice body, and any future hail versions of chlorophyll, solar power, etc
I hate how almost every grass type has 1 or 2 abilities related to sun weakening them for general use, ice doesn't need to be the same way
I agree, but at the same time if you throw a rock at some ice it would "smash" it. Ice is very brittle. I think that's what they were going for, even though it doesn't make much sense when most of the Pokemon that are solid ice are essentially covered in armor that is super hard.
Gf is kind of terrible at making weakness/resistance choices.
I agree, weather based abilities are shit this gen, and every Pokemon should get at least one non weather ability. Swampert and Houndoom both have gimped megas outside of a weather team because of this shit
I can't think of too many with all weather abilities, though it's pretty restrictive
Leafeon and Glacieon have that problem, and Tangrowth used to, but I can't recall any others
though for pokemon with 2 weather abilities and a 3rd shitty one, makes you wonder if they could have been useful outside of weather teams with whatever GF could have replaced those with
What would you guys think about hail giving some kind of slippery terrain effect?
>All non-ice types present in hail will suffer from halved speed
Would that be too OP?
I just wish my bro was better, even his mega is pretty bad...
>if you throw a rock at some ice it would "smash" it
Well honestly where I live it's much more common to see the rock shatter than the ice block. Depends on what we think is ice, snow counts? Then snow obviously fails. What about Sand?
No Mamoswine or Weavile megas. They're good enough. Ice can either resist flying or lose it's fighting and rock weaknesses. Hail raising defense 50% is good. Give more pokemon Snow Warning. Maybe Vanilluxe, Articuno and Froslass. Megas for all the shitty pokemon. I like the Blizzard trap thing but then no 50% def boost or it'd be op
>Articuno got generic Ice type hidden ability and not Snow Warning or Refrigerate
>Moltres and Zapdos at least got abilities that have some use outside of weather
I hate you Gamefreak
>>Moltres and Zapdos at least got abilities that have some use outside of weather
Static and Flame Body are next to shit to what they do, though. Pressure is better on almost all of the cases.
They're still better abilities than one that is entirely dependent on Hail. I'd be happy if it got a Freeze equivalent to Flame Body and Static.
On that note, why does such an ability not exist? We have abilities that inflict Burn, Paralysis, Poison, and even fucking Attract on contact. It wouldn't even be that broken considering the foe can just thaw out in the same turn it's frozen.
>get a power boost in Hail
>have a trapping Blizzard (best idea) and stronger Freeze Dry (80 BP?)
>have another Snow Warning mon
Ice should NOT:
>any of that other shit ITT
also have Fairy not be super effective on Dragon. Shifts the power back into Ice's hands offensively.
Well here's my logic.
Sunny Day and Rain Dance are meant to be counterparts, which is why they both boost Fire and Water moves by 50%. In the same way, Hail and Sandstorm are meant to be counterparts, which is why they do chip damage to non-Ice/Steel/Rock/Ground types.
So, if Rock types get a 50% Sp Def boost in Sandstorm, shouldn't Ice types get a 50% boost in their physical Defense in Hail? I don't think this would make a wonderful world of difference but since Fighting, Steel and Rock type moves are more often physical than not, it would make sense.
Ice types need much more than a Hail buff, though, to be honest. It's easily the type that has the most issues.
>>but losing weakness to rock is "shit"
Yes, because Rock similarly has a million weaknesses and is only good on offense; removing one of its offensive strengths makes it worse by a large order.
You may be right on Blizzard, but consider Heatran with its Magma Storm. Few Pokemon are even as good as Heatran in the first place.
Perhaps have it only trap during Hail
>removing one of its offensive strengths makes it worse by a large order.
>implying it's actual rock types that lose from this
>implying it's not other mons using rock coverage usually do deal with ice types
>implying it actually matters much when rock types usually carry tons of other moves for coverage including stuff like fire punch and superpower
>being this much of a dickwad
>>implying it's actual rock types that lose from this
It is. Their only strength is offensively or by Stealth Rocks.
>>implying it's not other mons using rock coverage usually do deal with ice types
Good Rocks like Aerodactyl and Tyranitar actually get STAB on it, though. Without an offensive Rock presence there would be little reason to even use THEM.
>>implying it actually matters much when rock types usually carry tons of other moves for coverage including stuff like fire punch and superpower
Those things aren't STAB, Superpower is inferior and stuff like Fire Punch is low BP anyway.
>>being this much of a dickwad
What, did I enter your """""safe space""""" and ruin your """"perfect"" headcanon buffs to ""your""" shitty type which is at the expense of another shitty type? Man I hate dissent, it's the worst. Fascism when?
Throwing a minor buff to Ice's signature weather, a few moves, and buffing it while simultaneously berfing two types that need it (Flying and Fairy) as I suggested is the best course of action. Yeah you could make Ice resist Rock, Bug, Poison, Grass, and Normal but that's an unnecessary and unbalanced shift in power on either end. Rock does not need a nerf.
Too bad you can't filter Stone Edge instead haha
not really, you're just stupid
rock types still have stab and if you really have a hard time killing an ice type with your rock type your really just a shitty player
superpower is also extremely used for a reason, saying it's "inferior" only shows how much inexperience you have
of course you would think adding more moves makes a difference on mons that already have plenty of options anyway but are always hindered by their typings lmao
i'm not mad, just really disgusted by having wasted time with someone as dumb as you and also who likes to do """"""this""""""" which is, at the most, borderline 17-year old behavior, and you know the rules my man, you can't be underage posting around on le 4chan!
>rock types still have stab and if you really have a hard time killing an ice type with your rock type your really just a shitty player
I didn't say it would be hard, Rock just doesn't need nerfing
>superpower is also extremely used for a reason
Solely because the Pokemon who use it either have Contrary or don't have access to Close Combat/High Jump Kick. Yes a move that lowers two of your stats, one being the relevant attack stat, is going to be worse than a STAB that is SE on the same type
The rest of your post is trash and you've never even touched upon my prior points, you're just making excuses for your reasonless headcanon which is basically just "I like Ice make it the best"
>borderline 17-year old behavior
>i'm not mad
i don't even care about ice that much lol why do you keep insisting on that? where did i even speak of anything remotely related with any canon, head or not? i'm just talking about the practical consequences of removing a weakness. fact it, it doesn't change rock types that much, it just removes a super effective move from the arson of other non-rock mons that were going to use it. that's it.
then i called you a dickwad, which you responded by saying "le mad you!!" and then doing the """""thing"""""" (honestly man cmon). how is this not underage behaviour? grow up my man
>>Their only strength is offense or Stealth Rock
You realize Stealth Rock isn't unique to Rock types, right? It should be, and it would give an otherwise suffering type a great niche, but Gamefreak went full retard again and now everything and its mother learns it.
I'm sensing a lot of tension here. Why don't you guys just fuck already and get it over with?
>I love it! I love bringing people together!
>fact it, it doesn't change rock types that much
That's bullshit, taking the sneaky pebbles weakness off Ice mons would see them being used more, and the few usable Rock types would suffer for not being able to hit them super effectively with STAB. An already very good Ice type, Mamoswine, would even resist it.
>Ice mons would see them being used more
that's the whole point tho
>the few usable Rock types would suffer for not being able to hit them super effectively with STAB
you mean stuff like diancie, tyranitar, aerodactyl, tyrantrum, rhyperior?
without rock weakness (including the stealth rock damage, only 12,5% taken):
>208 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Regice: 186-220 (60.1 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
>+1 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Regice: 291-343 (94.1 - 111%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
>+1 248+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Regice: 276-325 (89.3 - 105.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
>252+ Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Regice: 256-303 (82.8 - 98%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
>252+ Atk Choice Band Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Regice: 285-336 (92.2 - 108.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
all common sets. used regice as a generic ice mon (tho it has higher base defense than the average ice mon). avalugg obviously survives, but i think that's nice for a PU mon that can't do much to fight back anyway. admittedly, diancie can't do the ko. but i think that's fine for an A+ rank mon. plus regice is stuck with a 2hko too with focus blast, and since diancie is faster, it loses.
as you see, the good rock types are fine, provided they have boosting moves or a good boosting item. ddance tyranitar is common, so is hone claws m-aero.
now for the shittier rock types (barbaracle doesn't count since it usually has cross chop):
>252 Atk Archeops Head Smash vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Regice: 259-306 (83.8 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
>+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Regice: 409-484 (132.3 - 156.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
the only things that miss out are cradily and aurorus, which are support mons, and regirock, which admittedly isn't ideal, but it is mostly used as a support mon too anyway.
>>Ice mons would see them being used more
>that's the whole point tho
And then Rock types would suffer offensively. Can you read?
>regice takes a buncha damage guys!
>80 HP 100 defense
>random shitty EVs
Ok now do Avalugg, Mamoswine, Lapras, Kyurem...
>And then Rock types would suffer offensively. Can you read?
i just proved you they wouldn't, tho. can you pay attention to effort?
those are from a standard regice set that also happens to be one of the most commonly used sets. not my fault you're too stupid to know your own game.
as for other mons:
kyurem black has the same base defense so these calcs remain pretty much the same, considering it doesn't run hp ev's.
regular kyurem and lapras have less base defense so it pretty much remains the same except some of those "75% chance of ohko" because sure ohko's.
avalugg obviously survives, which is funny because avalugg can't do shit back. it becomes a viable rapid spinner with great physical defense that forces a switch but doesn't kill a damn thing back.
mamoswine is the only one that greatly benefits from this. it basically stops being what it is right now and becomes primarily a ground type, that also happens to have ice stab. as a ground type rock types lose. still loses to mega diancie though. finally a truly bulky ice type. would likely climb back to ou, which is the point of this whole thing. and no rock types don't have to drop because of this, diancie still wins and tyranitar still has great sets.
Ice type has 20% chance to freeze water types /ice is no longer not very effective against water types