Why does /vp hate Smogon so much?

Smogon pls go.
They ban everything that gets popular.
"MUH [Insert move here.] MOVE RUIN DA FUN IT JUST COMES DOWN TO LUCK!"

That excuse is bullshit and they know it.
Honestly if they hate luck so much then why the fuck haven't they banned critical hits?
That's the only luck aspect of Pokémon.

File: 519.png (538KB, 1280x1261px) Image search: [Google]

538KB, 1280x1261px

>>25061940
Because smogon has a forum where it talks about smogon
Now you can talk about anything here
But usually somebody uses smogon to shit on somebody else first

>>25061947
>Honestly if they hate luck so much then why the fuck haven't they banned critical hits?
How would you propose they even do that?

>>25061940
Many people here hate them because they try to use their bro mon in OU, where it most probably sucks. Then they blame Smogon for it.

>>25061940
It's an easy berserk button for wishy washy people who are mad that their favorite Pokemon isn't good in meta. And the hipster faggots who start loving their "bro" a littles less if it gets a buff that makes it popular online.

Because of shit like their sleep clause, which the closest thing to that in game was stadium limiting how many pokemon could know that move in a team of 4, all clauses being dropped in 2006 by nintendo, and sleep getting nerfed, and these chuckles are still thinking their home made rules are gospel and the only way to play.

>>25062062
>And the hipster faggots who start loving their "bro" a littles less if it gets a buff that makes it popular online.

I'm not proud to admit I am this kind of hipster faggot.
Luckily weather got nerfed so I started using him again.

>>25061947
You forgot that pedophiles post there too :^)

I hate them because they think they can make rules that don't actually exist and then get so super pissy when no one wants to follow them but their own little circle.

Though it is hilarious to insta win matches when they forfeit after I put a second mon of theirs to sleep, use minimize, or even bounce stealth rock back at them

>>25061940
GO BACK TO REDDIT FAGGOT

>>25061940
Smogon are selfish, arrogant and self-centered scrubs who bans whatever can beat their favorite pokemon (For example, Greninja beats Landorus and Sylveon, so they banned Greninja) and they're known for holding a grudge against VGC.

They're also a pedophile ring, but you already know that.

>>25061947
>"only luck aspect"
What are % chance effect activations?
What are misses?

The reasoning for this is that it's a a feature. The only change they've made to how the game itself works is the sleep clause.

>>25062580
>pedo

what srs

>>25062515

Jellicentfag faggot

>>25061940
>Why does /vp hate Smogon so much?

Because most people here don't know jack shit about competitive.

>>25062567

>>25061940
The only thing I hate about the Smogon are the people it oftentimes breeds. Go look at a guy like Monte Cristo, he was a mod there who acted like an absolute faggot to everyone and then everyone cried over his eventual suicide because of his "depression". Or Haunter. Or AM. Or really any of them.

Other than that, they're fine and actually are a pretty good way to play the meta. Most people who criticize them are children like >>25061947, >>25062540, or >>25062580 who always cry about rules or whatever.

Something something Sirlin, something something scrubs.

>>25062481
sleep clause was in pbr, your opinion is invalid

>"No complex bans. We at Smogon have a set of core rules that we don't break, for fear that it would lead to a slippery slope of complex bans"
>"We don't really want to ban Baton Pass, though. Let's implement a complex ban"

>>25061940
Their hate for all setup-breaking mechanics and protectionism of certain pokemon.

Some pokemon which should have been suspected long time ago are overlooked and its counters get crippled.
Everything which fucks with sneaky pebbles gets axed.

File: nice pebbles NERD.png (1MB, 1772x1772px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1772x1772px

One word: Crogre

>>25065577

>Everything which fucks with sneaky pebbles gets axed.

>>25065603
that's only not banned because smogon's a bunch of autistic stall-loving faggot scrublords

>m-muh xerneas ban!

>>25065603
What about Espeon, Absol and Diance?

Making only 1 pokemon viable isn't "balance"
Same goes for everything shadow tag.
Gen 5 Chandelure was totally comprehensible, but they pushed to the point that GF changed its abilities altogether.
Now look where we're at with Gengar -M suspect

>>25061940
Because shitters who for the most part dont frequent the site nor are a part of the community nor know any reasons Smogon does what it does shill Smogon's rules everywhere, especially in places/situations where it isnt warranted and get angry and go on the offensive when others don't immediately agree.

Essentially the same people who will immediately disconnect when someone sends out a Mega Luke/Blaziken/whatever, even if it's some terrible ingame one that isnt EV trained and will immediately go onto some forum to complain about it..

What I don't get is why Smogon defenders who say the purpose of tiers is to give every mon a chance don't try to stop OU elitism

>>25065111
sleep clause was optional

>>25064876
Sirlin would laugh at competitive pokemon.

>huge luck factor
>enormous type chart and an insane amount of pokemon which fill the exact same niches
>meta is always polarized as fuck, no matter what you ban

Yeah, there's plenty of scrubs, but pokemon is an absolutely shit game by his standards.

>>25061940
They're too ban-happy, sometimes they even try to skew the votes; remember when they failed at banning M-Gengar from Ubers, then did a second test, then threw out a ton of votes when not banning it was in the lead again to fix the vote? I know a higher-up fixed it and kept it from getting banned but it was probably Smogon's lowest point.

And then they still won't even give genies a suspect test.


Pokémon does need some regulations to even have a chance at being "competitive," we need shit like the sleep clause and VGC is a worse experience in my opinion for the shit that you're allowed to use there (also because VGC doesn't have 6v6 singles), but Smogon has some things I greatly disagree with.

Meta autism ruins everything

File: 1453233736518.png (182KB, 519x513px) Image search: [Google]

182KB, 519x513px

>>25065603
>yfw the Ubers room's banword list
http://hastebin.com/raw/afosivehuy

>>25066026
so is playing a smogon metagame

File: sQmMlv1.jpg (191KB, 570x720px) Image search: [Google]

191KB, 570x720px

>>25066087
>And then they still won't even give genies a suspect test.
DON'T LET YOUR MEMES BECOME DREAMS

>>25066087
Landorus-I was banned and no one cares about Thundurus-T or Tornadus-I

For something to be suspected enough people need to raise a stink about it on Smogon and Showdown, shockingly shitposting about smogon in /vp/ accomplishes exactly zero things

>>25066182
Exactly. Something Smogon forgets on the outside. Sleep clause wasn't even able to be enforced on wifi battles unless it was a friendly match fc to fc

File: 1434770871960.png (555KB, 1026x850px) Image search: [Google]

555KB, 1026x850px

>>25061940
>Smogon
>professionalism

File: 1450147080577.jpg (17KB, 480x352px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 480x352px

>>25066180
>why was he banned
>which rule did i break
>golduck

>>25066189
I thought this guy stopped doing artwork early gen 5, or is this another dude?

>>25066087
They banned Lanmdorus-I, so there's that. Genies aren't totally exempt.

>>25061947
I don't mind sleep clause, endless battle clause and OHKO moves, luck is something, but not luck to win instantly

>>25067292
but...... I do think some bans are bullshit, like shadow tag or wether abilities in lower tiers

>>25066194
Landorus-I was banned pretty much because it's one and true counter Greninja was gone and no one wanted a fast Sheer Force mon with a great typing around anymore. Sure, it was beatable, but it was pretty much guaranteed to get a kill per game. Shitty reason to ban but at least it's gone.

Thundurus and TornT just don't lose the same problems. Thundy can only dick around with its NP and Prankster abuse sets and Torn just spams regenerator. Lando T is utter cancer, though. Regular Torn and thundy-i are actually pretty shit all things considered.

>>25066087
I actually support Smogon but they have far and away the worst community. Its all the stubbonness and immaturity of VGC players combined with the sheer autism and childish anger one would expect from some groups like Smashfags

>>25066180
>fight club

eh, smogon has its pros and cons for me, but the cons really hold me back from getting involved with them.

Pros to me:
-tiering based on usage is a good idea as a way to let every mon have its place to shine. If butterfree is your favorite pokemon, go nuts with it in PU.

-the showdown sim is an extremely quick and super easy way to have 6v6 battles with someone at any time, instead of having to spend hours IV breeding and EV training your mons in the game for the 3v3 battlespot which takes days. You can just build a team in showdown for 20 minutes and you're good to go.

-different metagames can be shaken up with tier changes and shifts, Gyarados can spice things up in UU now that he moved down, and so on.

Cons
-the community is complete ass, from the legendary pedo-Haunter story to just salty fucks telling you to get cancer when they lose to a crit. if you want sportsmanlike conduct, look elsewhere.

-You need to CONSTANTLY keep active on the forums or newsfeeds to even know what's up due to the constant changes and tier shifts and rule changes. I didn't even get the memo that Aegislash was banned until Showdown said I couldn't use it cause I'm not terrible active on the forum.

-Showdown is almost completely ladder only. I would appreciate a practice room for new teams or a "for fun" space where you don't have to worry about ladder scores and GXE and COIL ratings, the ladder scoring just fuels that overcompetitive saltiness where people probably just wanna play a game for fun and not have scores count against them.

They are too ban happy. The explanation I got from the Spooky Sword ban was that it was too unpredictable as if that was somehow a bad thing. People were dealing with it just fine for quite some time.

It's mostly this gen that's the issue, you don't see GSC's ancient but ongoing meta banning Snorlax.

>http://www.smogon.com/philosophy
>PART 1, paragraph 1
>In some ways, it is very difficult for some people to understand why Smogon is the way it is. It has been criticized for its behaviors, its beliefs, and its general attitude. But it can be hard to grasp that this is often intended and, indeed, somewhat necessary for Smogon to "work", to perform at its highest effectiveness. These behaviors are not from a sense of cruelty or bias, but from a sort of entitlement, earned through hard work and experience. This document is intended to give some insight into Smogon's philosophy, and an understanding of what Smogon intends to do for its users. The end of the document will serve to dispel certain myths about battling and Smogon itself, so the reader will understand common arguments and misinformation and our responses to them.
>In some ways, it is very difficult for some people to understand why Smogon is the way it is. It has been criticized for its behaviors, its beliefs, and its general attitude. But it can be hard to grasp that this is often intended and, indeed, somewhat necessary for Smogon to "work", to perform at its highest effectiveness. These behaviors are not from a sense of cruelty or bias, but from a sort of entitlement, earned through hard work and experience.
>These behaviors are not from a sense of cruelty or bias, but from a sort of entitlement, earned through hard work and experience.
>These behaviors are not from a sense of cruelty or bias, but from a sort of entitlement
>entitlement
They say they are ENTITLED to act like smug assholes because, they play by their own made up rules, and THIS IS ON THE GOD DAMN PHILOSOPHY PAGE AKA MISSION STATEMENT! This alone should be enough for anyone to see how dillusional smogon and their ilk are.

>>25065652

What about Mega Diancie, then? It's even the best Smogonbird counter in the game if that worries you too.

POKEMON IS DEAD

>>25067653

What they meant by it being unpredictable was that it could force coin flips.

Say you have a Mega Charizard X and your opponent has a spoopysword. There's 4 ways this can go:

>Charizard uses Dragon Dance, Aegislash uses King's Shield - Charizard wins
>Charizard uses Dragon Dance, Aegislash uses Shadow Ball - Aegislash wins
>Charizard uses Flare Blitz, Aegislash uses Shadow Ball - Charizard wins
>Charizard uses Flare Blitz, Aegislash uses King's Shield - Aegislash wins

I don't actually agree with Smogon on this, though. It's not a true 50-50 unless it's on turn 1, as both players can analyze the state of the match (what's more important, keeping Charizard alive or killing Aegislash?) and each other's personality (is the opponent the type to mash King's Shield every turn)?

And of course, Charizard can use WIll-O-Wisp and win either way.

>>25067725

This, desu.

>>25066199
Why was this redone? I get they had a lot of canon looks, so why even recreate this one?

>>25067754
Did people forget they could just predict a king's shit and set up on it?

>>25062611
>The only change they've made to how the game itself works is the sleep clause.

Abilities like sand veil doesn't increase evasion on showdown

When you play random battle, do all the changes and bans apply? Is there a way to randomly generate a team and battle on the spot normally?

>>25062030
by not programming it into their simulator

>>25061940
Hypocrisy coming from a bunch of obnoxious kids, e.g.
Burn opponent with Scald
>Ah, like expected from the best move in the game
Opponent freezes your mon
>HAX, HAX, HAX, SCRUB, FAGGOT, MUST BE NICE
This and their stupid bans:
>Baton Pass is too good
>nerf to three users per team
>nerf to one user
>the user cannot boost speed and another stat
dEnIsSsS, please use more Stealth Rock, smogon might ban it

>>25061940
because they're child molesters?
they are also extreme babies about RNG in an RNG driven game and treat evasion like it's the fucking holocaust

>>25061940
Smogon is obsessed with removing all of the RNG from pokemon, I'm surprised they haven't removed the flinch effect of rock slide and the burn effect of scald yet. They want to turn a game where one of its defining characteristics, its volatility, into something like chess with magic animals. It doesn't make any sense, after enough tinkering with rules you're left with something that definitely isn't pokemon. As a vgcfag, I don't see the point of being a keyboard warrior in competitive mons. I would rather go to an event and show people what I can do, that I can handle the pressure of performing in real life.
>the electric feeling of playing world class opponents face to face
It's amazing

>>25061940
>I've always appreciated Smogon for the professionalism and organization they've put into competitive. Why does this board constantly shit on them so much?

Because Pokemon is about collecting cartoon monsters, friendship, and fun for all ages.
This is one of the few games that should have never become "Professional" anything.
Everything with them is charts and graphs and a bunch of needlessly arbitrary rules.

>This move is banned
>This pokemon is banned
>This mega evolution is banned, but these over here are okay
>This pokemon is okay to use, but only in this category and this category, not in this one over here
>You may not use this item
>This item can be used, but only in this bracket and not on these pokemon
>Now let's discuss how many times you need to make this Uber tier pokemon fuck a ditto until you get the optimal stats so that the offspring is fit to fuck another pokemon in that egg group over and over until it learns THESE moves with THIS temperament and THESE starting IV's so that you can remain competitive and not be a total scrub you fucking LOSER.

If I spend 3 hours hurling ultra balls at the legendary pokemon of the week because you get one masterball and a dozen legendaries to capture, I'll use it whenever I goddamn please, should I decide to use it at all.

>>25068360
Then don't play it with Smogon Rules. You don't have to do anything of this, unless you decide to do so. There are enough people just playing the game like they always did.
If you wanna play on Showdown, you can also play AG or maybe Random battles. Nobody puts a gun at your head and screams "PLAY OU OR I'LL BLOW YOUR BRAIN OUT OF YOUR SKULL!"

>playing pokemon competitively
both smogonfags and anti-smogonfags are autistic manchildren who should just killl themselves for wasting their time on one of the most unbalanced games I've ever played.

>>25064736

I'm not crying, I'm laughing. Smogontards are free wins :)

File: 1452931499822.png (178KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

178KB, 500x500px

I'd say the worst thing about Smogon (and Pokemon Showdown) is the community. Pokemon is popular with a younger audience so a lot of the mods and players are immature, power tripping 16 year olds. The elitism of some of the better players who think they're gods because they can predict an obvious play is pretty bad.

Something people seem to forget is that Smogon is also pretty different from other competitive game communities. For starters, Pokemon is an absolutely terrible game to play competitively because good competitive games put a lot of emphasis on skill and very little or none on RNG so that the better player should win. Despite Pokemon's heavy RNG, it is a popular game and Smogon appeared to try to minimize RNG for 6v6 singles.

Another difference is that many other competitive games centralize around a couple strategies/moves/setups that are considered to be the best. These strategies might get boring but it doesn't matter because they get wins. Smogon actually tries to avoid this by making tiers so that mediocre Pokemon that may not be any use against the top Pokemon can compete in lower tiers (kind of a shame lower tiers aren't very popular). People complain about seeing the same Pokemon on every team but there are like 40 something OU Pokemon and dozens from lower tiers with a useful niche in OU. That's actually a lot of choice before a battle begins compared to something like a fighting game with 20 characters where only a few are the best.

Basically Smogon has good intentions of trying to balance 6v6 singles and make it more skill, less RNG but fail because 1. Pokemon is an awful game with way too much RNG to ever be a good competitive game and 2. The attitude and mentality of the community is horrible

Why is it that Smogonfags are ALWAYS disgusting obese subhuman virgin trash?

Battle Factory should be used for VGC preliminaries. It tests your evaluation skills, which is a quality true pros should have, and smogonfags can't tell the difference between a good mon and a bad mon.

>>25068558
good post
>>25068582
bad post

learn the difference, kids

>>25069577
But I'm sure you can tell the difference between a good and a bad Pokemon, right?

File: 1398217063723.gif (431KB, 500x300px) Image search: [Google]

431KB, 500x300px

>>25068307
>yfw Smogon goes full retard and bans Acupressure for the 1/7 Evasion chance

>>25061940
Smogon is popular because it's popular (and people hate it for being the most popular ruleset, as opposed to something anarchic like in-game). The only reason that it's the go-to for strategy and tiering is because people coalesced around it in the first place.

The real problem with Smogon is that it's just another community, so it's full to bursting with drama and the same kinds of debates about competitive mons that happen here. If you think /vp/ has a monopoly on pokemon shitposting, just search "smogon firebot."

>>25067325

But Greninja doesn't counter Lando-I.

>>25068148

Did you forget that the Aegislash user can predict your prediction and not use King's Shield?

>>25067754

How is burning a Shadow Ball user a way to "win either way"?

>>25068170

Yes they do. You'll never get generated a Double Team mon, and if you get a Baton Pass user they'll only have one boosting move. If you get something like Scolipede it either has NO boosting moves + Baton Pass or boosting moves without Baton Pass.

>>25067739
Calm down, Morrison

>>25061940
>caring what a shit board says about something
ok lad
The only issue I have with smogon is the way moderation is sometimes, and how the usage based tiering system works

>>25069805
Yes. I create my own sets, and am not afraid to find out through trial and error which work and which don't, unlike the vast majority of net teaming smogon tryhard faggots you find on the ladder.