>>25051501 >it has many flaws that keep it from being broken.
Wow it's weak to the most resisted offensive type, one that nobody uses outside of Scizor and U-Turn
oh haha 80 speed guess I'll just slap a Scarf on it and spam my 100 BP mostly unresisted STAB move that hits through Protect :). Too bad I have to use a Scarf because it only has 160/170 offenses and great coverage
I don't know why everyone just doesn't collectively agree after so long, like:
>We know that pokemon like Keldeo, Heatran, genies, and Ferrothorn aren't overpowered in OU we're just sick of seeing them in every other match after so many generations and let's just ban them to Ubers to make the metagame less stale.
It's enough already. They're not broken, I'm just sick of fighting the same mons over and over again since Gen IV/V.
All of those mons I listed have either been OU since their release or briefly banned to Ubers in the case of Keldeo during Gen V weather wars. If you don't like the opinion that's fine but it's not uninformed, surely.
I want to play OU with a refreshing roster of pokemon.
Let me ask you this, if by, say, Gen IX, genies, Heatran, etc. are still solid OU mons will it ever get to a point where you would agree to ban them to Ubers just by virtue of the fact that you're fucking sick to your stomach of seeing one of them every other battle for 8 years straight?
Or will they always be okay to you so long as they remain unbroken?
>>25051756 Then play one of the fucking dozens of other metagames you dumbass
Look at this shit: http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/other-metagames.206/
Why does everyone fucking think OU is the only tier that exists
That's like demanding the rules of soccer be rewritten because the sport doesn't appeal to you
If you can't find something you like to play between 6 gens, 7 tiers, 3 battle formats (5 if you count battle spot singles and vgc doubles) and all the Other Metas that exist then you don't like pokemon battling.
>>25051756 Gen 6 UU is Gen 4 OU with a refreshing roster of Pokemon. >I don't like this mon Your opinion. Smogonfags don't give a shit about gameplay-irrelevant labels like being an OU staple for X generations straight.
>>25051725 Mega Sableye and Ferrothorn are cancer sure, but at least unique and not just minmaxed, better-typed, better-abilitied version of like 3 or 4 different pokemon each who could be used instead if they were banned.
No, here's what you do: Overhaul OU and Ubers entirely. >"Box Legendaries" go in Ubers >Ban confusion and paralysis since they're both coinflip status effects >Ban evasion-increasing moves >Ban every move that "has a chance" of causing a secondary effect, leaving only the ones that do cause effects and the ones that don't cause effects
Not what I said. I would be sick of Armaldo if it was OU since Gen III and used as often as the likes of Keldeo and genies. I'm talking about mons with very high usage that will most likely never be banworthy, but are good enough to never drop. Things like the aforementioned mons.
>>25051884 >Mega Sableye and Ferrothorn are cancer sure, but at least unique and not just minmaxed, better-typed, better-abilitied version of like 3 or 4 different pokemon each who could be used instead if they were banned. >cancerous pokémon are ok because their playstyle is unique no matter how cancerous it is >ban legendaries that are far from broken, only because they do the roles of some non-legendaries I like better than them It's quite clear that you just irrationally hate legendaries and don't actually give a shit about anything else.
>>25051756 No, I wouldn't ban them, the same way I wouldn't ban Garchomp, Gengar, and whatever Pokemon that have remained perpetually useful. You just have a retarded bias against legendaries like some kid on the playground.
I wonder why Smogonfags don't give a shit about OU staples being OU for X generations straight. Human beings are wired to grow to hate monotony. I'm not sure why Smogonfags are any different. I mean, I have an idea why something related to maintaining the status quo, but I won't get into that.
>>25051905 >Ban everything with a secondary effect I take it you hate ghost types? The only ghost move with decent distribution and Base Power is Shadow Ball, which has a 10% chance to lower SpD. Bro, random effects are part of the game. You just made every special attacking ghost type, which is, like, all useable ghosts in OU, into shit.
If you hate losing because of Shadow Ball's 10% chance to lower SpD you shouldn't be playing pokemon. Pokémon's random effects are what makes it what it is. Play something else, like chess or Street Fighter, or some other boring game without random effects.
The randomness and the opportunity for a shit player like me to win against an expert out of sheer luck is part of the appeal of pokemon to me. I suck at pretty much every game ever, so the more I can maximize luck, the better chance I have at winning. Because that's the only way I can win at all. And while shitters like me CAN have fun and never win a battle, we're a lot happier if the RNG Gods of Victory throw us a bone and lets us score one with the help of paralysis, confusion, etc. every once in a while.
If it came off as a bias towards legendaries that wasn't what I was intending to say. A lot of them happen to be legendaries but the likes of Ferrothorn Scizor, Garchomp and things like that fit the bill as well. Good enough to always be OU, most likely will never decline in usage unless a mon comes along that steals their niche, and not good enough to be banned.
Gengar has been OU for every gen, and it's good, but it's usage isn't very high to the point where you say it every one out of three battles. There's a difference between solid OU mons and cancerous mons and cores you see over and over again.
>>25051910 >I placed them in the tier below mega turbo nigger triad
>>25051937 Mega Sableye was suspected and I personally think he should be banned, go bitch to the smogonites, this thread is about one single move which would make things better and Sableye isn't included in that one thing.
Ferrothorn has clear, easily accessible ways to beat it, and it's only good at a couple of (extremely useful) things. "how do i counter a stove? it keeps hurting me when i touch it!" - you
And yes, if legends weren't bottlenecking OU you'd have 2-3 Pokemon from lower tiers per mon banned filling their niches creating a more varied metagame.
>>25051956 i don't get bored because when i get bored of playing OU I play a different tier or do something else
I didn't get bored of Harry Potter having the same few characters and I didn't get bored of comics telling stories of the same heroes and I didn't get bored of pokemon having the same gameplay for the last 20 years. I don't get bored of wearing the same brands or eating the same foods as i did 6 years ago because i do things in between.
At any rate, if you can't see why anyone anywhere would prefer familiarity to something unknown then that speaks more to you nt understanding human nature than of a fanmade subset of a children's rpg
>>25051972 I think you're heavily underestimating how fast the metagame can change between generations anon. A slight nerf to priority is all it takes to bring Scizor down. But I agree that some will put up a good fight, like Garchomp who has showed remarkable adaptability between the generations.
>>25051982 >Ferrothorn has clear, easily accessible ways to beat it, and it's only good at a couple of (extremely useful) things. "how do i counter a stove? it keeps hurting me when i touch it!" - you Sure most pokémon have some sort of ways to beat them. They can still be cancerous. >And yes, if legends weren't bottlenecking OU you'd have 2-3 Pokemon from lower tiers per mon banned filling their niches creating a more varied metagame. Not really. It would just be replaced by the second in line that is able to fill the niche. That's not more variety.
No, I don't mind the familiar, as evidenced by my opinion that solid OU mons like Gengar and Starmie aren't annoying, because while they've always been viable, you don't see them every other battle. That's the difference between familiarity and monotony. Familiarity is coming back home after a 2 week business trip. Monotony is eating Corn Flakes every morning for the next 5 years.
>>25051986 Garchomp is likely to fade by the next generation unless GF buffs him in some significant way. They fucked up his Mega and pretty much nobody uses him to sweep anymore since we have more diverse and often better choices for that nowadays (see Megas).
I'm not even much of a gamer, I like Pokémon and card gamaes, but I guess I'm a fan of the Dynasty Warriors series of games, and a lot of Nintendo hallmarks like Zelda, Super Mario games + spinoffs, etc. But even so, I don't play any other video games competitively so I don't foresee a way for this exercise to come to any meaningful conclusions.
>>25051884 >Mega Sableye and Ferrothorn are cancer sure, but at least unique and not just minmaxed, better-typed, better-abilitied version of like 3 or 4 different pokemon each who could be used instead if they were banned. They are though, much much more so than a lot of legendaries. Most Pokemon in OU are like that, legendary or no. Just stop talking.
>>25052026 I go to Bowser in Mario kart because he is familiar to me. I have played every mario kart game.
If I played Bowser in every match with friends, i might get bored, so it is up to me to change carts or characters.
If I played Mario kart every day, I would get bored. So I do not play everyday. I play a couple times a month, if even that often.
Sometimes i play Mario Tennis or I change gears entirely and play Magic, or Yu-Gi-Oh. I go back and play Parallel universes 64. It's fun for me to play that game, even though I beat it, because I like rediscovering areas and playing through the levels.
All these things I feel about my hobbies can be applied to pokemon. You're operating on the false premise that competitive battling amounts to playing all day, every day. Few people share your opinion because no one can wrap their head around why you would think that Gengar is bad or annoying just because it's popular. It makes sense to you in your head, but we don't live in that world, we live in reality.
>>25051963 >>Ban everything with a secondary effect I didn't say that. I said ban everything that only MIGHT cause an effect. Everything that DOES cause an effect, and everything that does NOT cause an effect, will stay.
>I can think of 2+ pokemon who would benefit from Raikou leaving and he's not even that good as far as legends go. The only one I see getting more usage is Manectric, and it's already present in OU. No other pokémon that plays similarly would be able to keep up in OU that I can think of.
But even then, do you really think this is exclusive to legends, do not think banning something like Mega Sableye would have a similar effect?
>>25052092 Non-Mega Manectric, Jolteon, maybe even Galvantula. I could see something zany like Raichu or Electivire being usable as well (Raichu has great speed and great coverage t. evolution of series mascot)
>>25052115 In a perfect world, Manaphy will be banned too. Jolteon would be very similar in power to M-Manectric though, it's a moot point.
>>25052126 I already said I think M-Sableye should be banned but that is not within the scope of the point I am presenting ITT. At least M-Sableye doesn't make a zillion pokemon in lower tiers irrelevant, AND it takes up the Mega slot.
>>25052172 >Non-Mega Manectric, Jolteon, maybe even Galvantula. I could see something zany like Raichu or Electivire being usable as well (Raichu has great speed and great coverage t. evolution of series mascot) I don't play OU, so I really can't undertand why you guys want Jolteon, Galvantula and even Raichu over Heliolisk and fucking Zapdos. Anyway I guess the discussion is pointless since Raikou would never get banned from OU. It used to be in UU and it wasn't even a problem there.
Also as a side note Elecivire will not be OU material until literally every other Electric pokemon is in ubers.
>>25052172 >I already said I think M-Sableye should be banned but that is not within the scope of the point I am presenting ITT. At least M-Sableye doesn't make a zillion pokemon in lower tiers irrelevant, AND it takes up the Mega slot. But isn't your point to vastly improve OU? Banning stuff like Raikou won't make much of a difference. But extremely prominent pokémon like M-Sableye can make a world of difference. I also disagree with your last statement, since Mega Sableye makes pretty much all other Magic Bounce users irrelevant and being such a prominent Mega makes it very hard for other megas to compete for that one slot. I dare say that the OU tier in the OP could potentially be even more centralizing than what we have now.
>>25052275 >I don't care, you're making an irrelevant point. This isn't about "all improvements to OU" this is about one specific improvement for certain reasons. I'm saying that it might not be an improvement at all. Which is right on topic. Since you're banning a lot of weaker OU mons, and contrary to what you're saying the substitutes won't be as good. At the same time you let some of the biggest bullies in OU stay. Putting two and two together we can both see that there will be a much bigger gap between the best OU mons and the lower ones, making the tier much more centralizing and flat out worse.
>>25052250 >banning stuff like raikou won't hurt anything Yes it will. Has it not been explained to you that Slowbro, Talonflame, Gyarados, etc, will be much harder to beat? Then people will use M-Mane more, which might lead to a rise in ground types, which might lead to more Ice types and Serperior usage, etc.
>makes other MB users irrelevant Dumbest thing I've heard all day. Sableye does different shit than every other MB user
>more centralizing Nigga just because you see a lot of Pokemon in A+ or S doesn't mean they're used all the time. Clefable is the best pokemon in the tier and yet it would be stupid to see it on every team. Lando T is ten times less the Pokemon Clefable is yet it immediately provides pressure to an opponent which is why it's so common. Same thing with a relative nobody like Weavile before the rise. The tiers change, if you just wanna cry about overcentralization, there are plenty of mediums to talk about VGC
>>25052343 And this is bad how... ? Metas change, and people have to adapt to the changes in order to win. If you're running a stall team and not preparing for the pokemon that "Single handedly" (Which is 48th in OU usage by the way, behind Sylveon, pretty centralizing) counters one, you're not playing right. It'd be like a mono-grass player who wants Charizard to be banned, he's the retard who wants the meta to revolve around specific playstyles instead of letting the best ones win
>>25052337 >Yes it will. Has it not been explained to you that Slowbro, Talonflame, Gyarados, etc, will be much harder to beat? Then people will use M-Mane more, which might lead to a rise in ground types, which might lead to more Ice types and Serperior usage, etc. Again, banning Raikou is this situation just makes things worse. As you said yourself Slowbro, Talonflame and Gyarados will all be even better and need all the resistance they can get.There would be more than enough room for both Raikou and Mega Manectric. Also you know just as well as me that Ice will never be a good typing.
>The tiers change, if you just wanna cry about overcentralization, there are plenty of mediums to talk about VGC You wanted to ban things like Raikou to make room for more variety for electric pokémon, or was that just an excuse to ban legends? You're telling me that over-centralization isn't a problem generally because tiers change, except in regard to Lando. I think you should take your own advice and head over to a VGC format yourself, they are much more open to the "ban all legends" idea.
>>25052393 I'm just saying that Mega Sableye is really good right now. So of course people need to adapt. And that OP's change would make it even better, at that point there is no doubt it would be overpowered.
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