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In your opinion, who was the most evil?
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In your opinion, who was the most evil?
Or rather, who had the potential to be the most evil?
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Lysandre attempted genocide of the entire human race
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what did the plasma guy wanna do again?
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>>25020597
Galactic > Flair > Aqua > Plasma > Magma > Rocket
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>>25020597
None of them did they were all diet colas of evil nothing more
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>>25020597
giovanni was not evil in a twirling moustache kind of evil like the other villians
he just wanted ez cash stealing pokemon, nothing more, nothing else

most of the leaders just want to do stuff with pokemon, but lysandre and cyrus are the ones that actually have problems with the human race and want to get rid of them
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>>25020612
"Liberate" all pokemon from their trainers.

The more I look at it, the more they remind me of PETA
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>>25020623
Wasn't the actual plan so that no one other than Ghetsis would have Pokémon so he could rule the world or something
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>>25020623
i thought thats just what N wanted

didn't ghetsis have some other ulterior motive?
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Ghetsis.

He literally attempted to kill a little kid by impaling them with ice... do you know the aftermath, how that would have looked? Ghetsis probably wouldn't be affected by the sight in the least.

That's evil.
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>>25020641
Yes >>25020637
Sorry never actually played gen 5
Still doesnt sound very evil
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>>25020597

Giovanni was a mob boss.
Archie and Maxie were eco-terrorists.
Cyrus was a cult leader.
Not N's dad was a furfag.
And who gives a shit about the last two?
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either Ghetsis or Lysandre.

Ghetsis is the only time I remember an antagonist actually almost flat out killing the player and Lysandre is just Poke-hitler who wants to kill anyone who isn't in his perfect little club

all the others (except Cyrus) can't be that bad because they turned good in the end.
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Colress' potential to be evil completely eclipses everyone else. There's no limit to how deadly he could have been if science favored it. There's a reason the saying goes, "The cold hand of science.".
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>>25020597

Ghetsis >Lysandre > Colress> Galactic dude > Giovanni > both Team fucktards
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>>25020653
Now that I look back at it, D/P/Pt went into a lot of religion topics. That is scary.
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>>25020597
In order from most to least it'd probably be Lysandre = Cyrus > Ghetsis > Colress > Giovanni > Archie/Maxie

Lysandre specifically wanted to commit a genocide and Cyrus indirectly wanted one too by fucking with space-time, but both are acting on entirely selfish reasons and are both of the very mustache twirling kind of evil and arguably interchangeable.

Ghetsis wanted to become a tyrant, emotionally abused a child to get what he wanted, and almost kills the player but never wants a mass murder like the other two guys. Mostly likely did kill people when north Unova froze over, however.

Colress only cared about drawing out the potential strength of Pokemon, but he also didn't care about the damage that could be done in doing so. He himself isn't that evil, however ambition can be a very dangerous thing as well.

Giovanni just cared about running what's pretty much the Pokemon world equivalent of the mafia and only cared about making money, but also didn't try to go for any domination outside of an economic one and ultimately knows when he is defeated and disbands anyway. Team Rocket is the only gang that was confirmed to kill at least one Pokemon but most likely Giovanni himself had nothing to do with this and was just caused by lower rank members.

Archie and Maxie are both environmental extremists but other than that are not really that evil. They just did what they thought was best for Water or Fire Pokemon respectively and back down immediately after seeing the wrong there was in awakening Kyogre and Groudon. They're not really "bad", moreso just misguided.
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>>25020779

I would switch Cyrus and Ghetsis.

Cyrus had a little bit of an epiphany or whaever in that distortion world with Cynthia... I think he could have been guided down a different path.

But Ghetsis, he's the type you'd have to kill to stop, imo.
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>>25020779
Archie and Maxie are more just chucklefucks than villains. I'd guess that the MC would probably become friends with the antagonist in the Hoenn games, meanwhile all the other guys are a bit too villainous to become friends with. And Lysandre is literally Hitler.but you cannot deny he has a point
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>>25020597
Ghetsis was best villain. Everybody else was either bland, an edgelord, or had ridiculous goals that made mo sense.
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What exactly did the second plasma guy do? I never played Black/White 2.
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It comes down to Cyrus and Ghetsis

>Cyrus
>Had some kind of mental disorder
>Intended to kill everyone, everywhere by destroying and remaking the universe.
>The subordinates he told will have a ticket to said new universe are just disposable pawns
>Mutilates the embodiments of human emotion, willpower, and knowledge to create his universe controller
>At least one stolen Pokemon was killed in Team Galactic's experiments, and a grunt threatened to go aloha snackbar on an entire town.

Ghetsis
>Raised N to be a socially retarded puppet, then dished out some of the nastiest insults in the series to him when N failed that role.
>Enslaved and tortured Kyurem by using it as a battery for his ship.
>Wanted to use Kyurem to rule over Unova with an iron first after his subtle plan failed.
>Hurled giant icicles at the player before a proper battle could begin because he can feel they're just like the one he faced.
>Name and battle theme come from the musical tritone, which is known as "the devil in music".

Cyrus wins in terms of sheer scale of villainy, while Ghetsis is the most foul on a personal level.
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>>25020991

>we will never know what actually happened to Ghetsis' body
>>
An anon pointed out the deep symbolism with Ghetsis' clothes... does anyone have it?
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Giovanni R/B/G > Giovanni Y >>>>> Giovanni G/S/C >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Giovanni HG/SS
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Probably Ghetsis. He just has no moral values whatsoever. Also incredibly smart.

He knew he couldn't summon Reshi/Zekrom because his intentions were wrong so he raised a boy for like 20 years in the castle.
Made N's room like that to "preserve his innocence: and purposely got abused pokemon to play with N. Adopted two other daughters for the sole purpose of being N's caretakers. He wants to rule the world just because he felt entitled to it.

BW2 comes along and he straight up just tries to kill the protagonist so they wouldn't be able to interfere with his plans. He even froze an entire city and shit like that. Completely fine with keeping a pokemon merely as a powersource for his sick ass ship. His Hydreigon has full power frustration. You finally stop him but the only way to do that was by driving him to full insanity. His heart is made of pure ice (no pun intended).
Also both his themes are amazing.

I'd probably rank it like
Ghetsis > Cyrus > Colress > Lysandre > Giov > Maxie > Archie
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>>25020597
Ghetsis is the most evil, no question. Abusing your son, freezing an entire town, using your cult to attempt to cause mass chaos, along with being the only one to actually go after you and try to kill you makes him pretty fucked up. One of the only good parts of Gen V desu

Cyrus comes next simply because he's probably the coldest son of a bitch of any of them

Colress is next because he's pretty disturbing - using Pokemon fusions and willingly going along with Ghetsis and outright stating he doesn't care if the world is destroyed just so he can get research is also fucked up

Lysandre could have been good, but comes off more as a depressed emo rich kid whining about the world. Still better than Giovanni, who has no presence whatsoever, or maxie/archie, aka moron 1 and moron 2
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>>25021023

Masuda stated in a public Q&A that Ghetsis was attacked by a Pokemon.

The popular choice is his Hydreigon going the mauling, but my headcanon is a past encounter with Kyurem. Skin darkening and nerve damage are frostbite symptoms.
>>
Doesn't Ghetsis even get the Shadow Triad to stalk you and your family or something like that? That fucked me up.
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I feel like Team Plasma would've been cooler if there were any examples in the game of people actually mistreating pokemon. Everyone is always super nice to their pokemon, and N even tells the player "if everyone treated his pokemon like you do, then I would be fine with pokemon living with humans" but no one is ever shown doing any thing bad to their pokemon.
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>>25020621
>>25020653
If Giovanni had no higher goals beyond a mob boss, then why did he want to Master Ball to capture Mewtwo?
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>>25021151
I guess Neo Plasma was their example. Nearly everyone there were dicks.
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>>25021164
source on this?
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>>25021164
When was it ever implied he was going to catch Mewtwo besides the anime which isn't related to the games?
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>>25021164
>Why would he want the most powerful pokeball to catch an escaped psychic type that just recently broke free
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>>25021195
But Mewtwo is "take over the world" tier, not something a mafia does.
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>>25021233
Once again, source that he wanted to catch Mewtwo?
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i don't know why no one here has realized yet that cyrus LITERALLY WANTED TO DESTROY THE UNIVERSE.

even lysandre had smaller goals of mere human extinction. maxie/archie wanted terraforming with human/pokemon life at risk.

goat tits wanted world domination, just had fancy ways of going about that. colress was a yes-man with money and technology. dangerous when unsupervised.

and giovanni was experimenting with dna splicing quite a lot. mewtwo in r/b/g and deoxys in fr/lg (manga only). only a threat to locals until deoxys got involved.
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Ghetsis > Lysandre > Cyrus >= Giovanni >>> Maxie > Archie

>>25020606
Ghetsis is the most evil to me because he has no redeeming qualities, but Lysandre is 2nd because of this. He wanted to exterminate most of the population and all Pokemon for bullshit reasons. Even though the games seemed to want him to come off slightly sympathetic I mostly got the impression he hated lower class people and wanted to kill anyone who wasn't rich (and dumb) enough to join his group.
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>>25021359
True, but also because he thought emotions and shit like that were the cause of strife and hostility. In a way he could be right, plus he still had that sad backstory thing going on.
His plans were indeed over the top though, but as for his personality I don't think it's too bad.
>>
>>25021359
Cyrus was also a weirdo who thought it was for the best. He was more a nut than an outright villain.

Ghetsis was probably the most 'evil' due to essentially being a selfish douche to the nth degree.
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Why do people keep saying Giovanni wanted to do shit with Mewtwo? I don't remember anything like that happening in the games besides the "we want the masterball" thing but they could have just wanted that to reproduce it somehow to catch more pokemon or something like that.
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>>25021410
The anime is my guess. The implication in the games is that it was Mr. Fuji who captured Mew and created Mewtwo.
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>>25021237
>secret experiment funded by unknown sauce
>team rocket just happens to secretly own the casino ie. extremely rich
>tried to get silph scope to get ghosts (super effective against psychic)
>tried to get get master ball
Think about it, why else was he trying trying to do all this otherwise pointless shit? He made mewtwo, it escaped and he wanted to get it back. All the pieces are there in the story
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>>25021503
Guess you can put that together as well, though it would have been cooler if they actually said something about it.
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They're all pretty nice, considering they don't just beat up the protagonist
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>>25021516
Its cooler that they didnt imo. Spoonfeeding ruins the fun of actually coming to realisation by yourself
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>>25021983
I agree, but I think they should have put in at least one clearer implication. Otherwise a lot of people can easily just pass the other really subtle ones off as mere coincidences.
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>>25020794
>"Silence! Enough of your blathering! That's how you justify spirit as something worthwhile?! That is merely humans hoping, deluding themselves that they are happy and safe! The emotions roiling inside me... Rage, hatred, frustration... These ugly emotions arise because of my own incomplete spirit! ...Enough. We will never see eye to eye. This, I promise you. I will break the secrets of the world. With that knowledge, I will create my own complete and perfect world. One day, you will awaken to a world of my creation. A world without spirit."
Cyrus is set on beliefs. He wont walk down a different path just take a different approach that will be equally as batshit crazy.
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>>25020991
>Cyrus
>ridiculous goals or made no sense by Pokemon standards
You funny.
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I like both Cyrus and Ghetsis
I also think both of them are just equally as evil, though in different ways
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>>25021400
>Cyrus was also a weirdo who thought it was for the best
He's not wrong. We've evolved and progressed too far it would be best to destroy everything and start anew. Everyone isn't gonna collectively take a look in the mirror and say hm, maybe we're doing something wrong.
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>>25020597
First thing: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I take this as a redeeming factor for Lysandre, Archie and Maxie. They wanted a better world but were too blind to see the downside of their plans.
Colress is a scientist, a quite mad one, but not that evil when compared to the team leaders.
Now we have the real bad ones: Ghetsis, Giovanni and Cyrus.
Giovanni is mafia, a criminal, indeed evil, used pokémon for money.
Cyrus is even more evil. His plan is similar to lysandre's, they want a better world, but Lysandre wanted a world with better people, Cyrus wanted to be the God and everything reshaped in its own image.
Ghetsis is a son of a bitch.
Giovanni and Cyrus, at the end, manage to open their eyes and realize that they've been doing bad things.
Ghetsis doesn't realize this. He would have continued if he could, and if he had access to more dangerous legendaries, like Groudon, Palkia and so on, he would have caused massive destruction.
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>>25022052
>Giovanni and Cyrus, at the end, manage to open their eyes and realize that they've been doing bad things.
Do you mean Maxie and Archie?
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>>25021399
what sad back story?
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>>25022071
His grandfather in Platinum says something about how his parents neglected him which led him to believe emotions were the source of strife
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Gethsis is a batshit insane fundamentalist christian cult leader and would probably make everybody kill themselves at some point
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>>25022089
This

>>25022071
Also it's mentioned by an NPC in the 8th gym city in DPPt (forgot name) that he spent a lot of time tinkering with machines rather than socially interacting with others. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
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>>25020597
Lysandre came off as a lot more whinier than the other villains though I'm not sure why. To me Ghetis and Cyrus are the most evil and arguably the best written, with Cyrus maybe just edging out Ghetis because of his more grandiose plans that he intended with Space-time under his control
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Giovanni wasn't evil. His whole goal was to locate his son, Silver, who was kidnapped at age two. He did whatever it took to achieve this goal, but he was not evil. Read the manga
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This is a guy who probably revealed how he really looks at N just because he wanted to see him suffer. Because, you know, why not mindrape him even further.
>The moment when someone loses all hope... I really do love to watch that moment.
This is a guy who knew perfectly well how to make people question themselves and used that to take over.Also the impaling part.
Plus anyone remembers the part with Griseous, Lustrous and Adamant Orb? That guy won't stop at Unova.
And all not because he wanted money or to change the world, no, he just bloody decided that he is entitled to entire world.
>>25020794
>But Ghetsis, he's the type you'd have to kill to stop, imo.
>>
>>25024509
Manga is not games
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Giovanni was an immoral and corrupt crime boss, but he cared for his son

Archie and Maxie had good intentions

Cyrus and Lysandre were implied to be mentally ill (Cyrus was a sociopath, Lysandre was just insane)

Colress was manipulative and cold, but he wasn't all that bad compared to the higher-ups

I'd say Ghetsis is worst
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>>25020597
Lysandre was literally Hitler
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>>25020597
rocket/aqua only decent looking ones
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Cyrus and Lysandre wanted to do the worst things, but they have their own reasons because of how they were treated in the past. Ghetsis however just seems like a genuinely horrible person, which is why I think he's the 'evilest'
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>>25024687
I understand that. Even so, reading the manga gives you really interesting lore. That's why you should read, play, and watch. It's a shame not many people read it.
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>>25020597
Cyrus easily wanted to do the most damage and was the dangerous. Lysandre as well. Although Cyrus edges him out because a controlled genocide is better than the complete distruction of the universe.

Ghetis was probably the most "evil"
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>Tfw we will never see mega universe Cyrus attempt to use origin form Dialga/Palkia/Giratina
>Tfw we will never see N use an origin form Zekrom/Reshiram
>Tfw we will never see Colress abuse the power of mega evolution and merge Kyurem, Reshiram and Zekrom into the Original dragon

Maxie and Archie got a second chance, Fire Red and Leaf Green were retold in Origins so there's nothing to really see, and Lysandre got gimped because there were no gen 6 megas. Feels bad man.
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>>25025797
It'll happen.
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>>25020597
Lys and Cyrus were both pretty hell-bent on genocide, so them I guess.
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Cyrus and Lysandre are pretty even in my book, both felt similarly about humanity (although Cyrus was more just "fuck emotions" and Lysandre was more of a "fuck people in general" kind of guy).
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>>25020597
Cyrus, Ghestis and Lysandre are all cartoonishly evil and have little motive beyond "fuck everything" so I'd say them. Lysandre actually managed to fire his superweapon, so I guess I'd give him the edge.

Giovanni's just a crooked businessman and Archie and Maxie are good guys, just really stupid.
>>
Well, Cyrus straight up hated humanity's existence and wanted to create a whole new universe because he thought his race was impure. It doesn't get more fucked up than that.

That being said, Ghetsis did try to kill you, so he's a good example of the villain being really graphically evil on-screen and not just words.
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>>25020649
he tried to murder you and manipulated a pure-of-heart child
that's pretty cold for rated e for everyone
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>>25026088
lol tripfag logic

i wish ghetsis would murder you


Anyway, yeah, I'd give Ghetsis the vote because he feels a lot more realistic. Manipulating a child and totally mentally breaking them when they don't meet expectations, using a public group and message with an ulterior motive, trying to kill a person who stands in the way...he was more interesting than "I'm going to use this magic superweapon to kill everyone except somehow those who I don't want it to kill." Also his going totally insane at the end was pretty interesting.

I think Lysandre would be great with some development. Whatever the next game is, it needs to put a twist on XY's plot that we don't expect.
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>>25025797
Wasn't Colress mentioned in XY visiting the region and researching stones? (I do believe that Colress was onto something but poor dude lives in 3D universe.
>>25026178
Ghetsis' breakdown because he couldn't comprehend that his plans went to hell. And that world after all won't be his is just the only ending that ever worked Well for a villain IMHO
>>25025721
I do all three (well, I'm a bit behind with manga) but I don't like to merge universes if I'm talking pure canon.
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>>25020597
Rick Sanchez just wanted to make a whole world for himself!
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>>25020597
Cyrus was going to become a god to crush the idea of spirit (he almost succeeded, and was totally unrepentant). He was going to break the world because he was a screwed up kid and not give a fuck.
Lysandre was going to genocide the fuck out of everyone he didn't like, and actually fires the fucking weapon to do it. He cons the shit out of a bunch of idiots, draining massive sums of money from people who joined him just so they wouldn't die when he kills everyone else.
Ghetsis is third, wanting world domination, fucked over his son completely, and formed a cult. He's much more personal in how evil he is, he's just a real fucking scumbag.

These three motherfuckers don't care about what their plans would do to other people in the slightest. They want the world to bow to their plan, and who gives a shit who dies, they don't care. It's a close race, and it's almost a tie, I'd put them in the order listed here if I outright had to rank them.

As for the rest, Giovanni is just a mob boss (and relatively mundanely evil, steals+smuggles Pokemon, runs a gambling ring, ordinary mob stuff). Pretty dangerous, if you assume he's going to try to catch Mewtwo, and other than the lack of scale in his plans in the games, is pretty damn evil. He's a pretty straight criminal.
Colress just wanted Pokemon to be stronger, and I don't remember him doing any really evil shit at all compared to the rest. He's a bit amoral (he doesn't care what he does to make Pokemon stronger), but not exactly evil, and doesn't do stupid mad science bullshit just for the fuck of it. He's still pretty damn dangerous because he doesn't give a shit, and is totally capable of being evil as fuck, he just wasn't.
Aqua/Magma are dangerous, but just misguided as fuck. Very high danger (let's flood/fry the planet), low evil (we're doing it for the Pokemon/we're doing it for the people, and we're actually serious about that, no ulterior motive).
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>>25028517
wubba lubba dub dub!
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>>25021503
Keep that fanfic in your tumblr blog. If he did want mewtwo (which he probably didn't) it was just to sell it to the highest bidder. Team rocket sells pokemon, that's what they do. He could just sell the masterball for some cash or use it to make knockoffs.
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>>25021386
>bullshit reasons
No, it was for the cleansing of the gene pool to eliminate low quality shits like you.
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Cyrus isn't evil, he just has autism
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>>25029031
EVIL AUTISM
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>>25024728
So Lysandre was the good guy?
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>>25020597
Ghetsis is the most evil.
Cyrus is the most destructive, and probably has the potential to be most evil.
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>>25020597
In terms of battle themes, it's easily Archie/Maxie > Colress > Cyrus > Ghetsis BW2 > Lysandre > Ghetsis BW1 > Giovanni

In terms of evil, well, pretty much only Ghetsis, Colress, and Cyrus were evil. Everyone else was misguided or became good in the end
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>>25020597
Cyrus, iirc, wanted to dominate the dimensions inside out, and Lysandre wanted mass genocide...so I'll pick those two.
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>>25030650
Thing about Lysandre though is that he still thought he was doing the good thing.
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>>25030643

Giovanni never really became good in the end, he just had his hopes and dreams crushed when years of training amounted to nothing.
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>>25030643
Ghetsis' BW2 theme sounds the most evil to me imo
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>>25020597
Cyrus tried to destroy the entire universe, and would've succeeded if not for an unaccountable third party from another dimension.
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>>25030692
I was just talking about the quality of the theme. Of course, if it in terms of evil sounding, then Ghetsis's themes top the list and Archie/Maxie go third, with Cyrus right below it. Then I guess Lysandre and Colress.

>>25030682
I forget the exact dialogue, but doesn't he see that the player made him see the error of his ways? I'm prolly wrong
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>>25020597
In my opinion Looker is evil!
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>>25029031
I kinda felt bad for Cyrus, it really seemed like he had legitimate severe mental problems. Too bad the Pokemon world probably doesn't have psychologists.
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Ghetsis is in my opinion the worst. His comeback was WAY better than rocket by a long shot. He was absolutely crazy, and was the closest to achieving his goal both times(minus rocket but they just wanted to have a lot of money not ruin the world per se). Flair would be second, Cyrus third. Cyrus actually got what he wanted without killing everyone. Flair's goal was to literally kill everyone.

Magma/aqua realised their mistakes and changed so they don't count. They're just big fuzzballs in the end.
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>>25031201
And don't forget Ghetsis' hacked hydreigon
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Well lets see

Giovanni was a leader of gangsters that stole shit for money and wanted power.

Maxie and Archie wanted to fuck up the ecosystem.

Cyrus wanted to created a new universe and destroy the old one.

Ghetsis wanted to..um...control all Pokemon?

Lysandre wanted to kill all Pokemon, kill all humans, and achieve immortality.

I would definitely say Cyrus and Lysandre are tied in being the most evil and the most destructive.
>>
>>25020678
I hope if Cyrus returns in some way they toss in some subtle Jonestown references. I loved that shit when Castlevania did it with Graham Jones.
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>>25029050
yes
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>>25024682
The only people who give a shit about Ghetsis post-BW2 is the Shadow Triad and only out of gratitude for him saving them years ago. He's that shitty of a human being.
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>>25031148
Dude is an emotionally abused child with parents who only care about his academic worth. It sucks when your parents are shitty and apparently so shitty Cyrus preferred machines to human beings. Reminds me of that thing where tech-oriented people can become emotionally deficient.
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>>25031318
>that thing where tech-oriented people can become emotionally deficient.
You mean autism
>>
>>25031318
Oh yeah, I remember Platinum had his grandfather (I think) talk about Cyrus. He didn't have much of a role aside from a few lines in the postgame, would be cool if the remakes expand on it. Giving characters more background is always welcome.
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>>25024704
>Archie and Maxie had good intentions
Did we play the same game?
>>
>>25020597
From most evil to least evil
>Cyrus
>Lysandre
>Ghetsis
>Giovanni
>Maxie
>Colress
>Archie

From most potential to cause evil to least potential to cause evil
>Cyrus
>Lysandre
>Maxie = Archie
>Ghetsis
>Giovanni
>Colress
>>
This guy.
>>
>>25031100

HGSS:
>How is this possible...? The past three years have been a waste...? How can a kid like you manage to destroy my dream once again? The precious dream of Team Rocket has become little more than an illusion...

His sprite's direction and movement even seemed to imply he stared off into space and had to lean against the wall to stay standing. Giovanni's spirit was broken.
>>
>>25033953
Why do you think they're not? Archie is barely even a villain, he just wanted to help Pokemon. Albeit in a stupid misguided way.
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I want Archie and Lydandre to spitroast me.
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>>25033989
What makes Maxie worse than Archie?
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>>25034305
Archie is 10/10 perfect husbando material, would help him fight Magma scum and drown the world.
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>>25033995
Buddha did nothing wrong
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>>25033995
Literally Jewddha.
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>>25020597
I'd say it's Lysandre since he sought for worldwide genocide. Cyrus comes to a close second.
>>
I don't really think Lysandre was that evil, seems like most people say he is because of the genocide thing but he still thought he was doing something good for the world (could have been good depending on how you look at it) plus he even cried at one point iirc
Also the fact that he still lets anyone live as long as they had money anyway is kinda silly
>>
>>25035525
The problem is the Flare plot is just poorly executed. Lysandre is a decent villain in a game with shit story. Him and Malva are like the only interesting characters in the whole team (well, maybe Xerosic too.)
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