I can accept people not believing that Butterfree and Venomoth's designs were switched, since that is purely conjecture, but it's laughable that people refuse to acknowledge or even outright deny that Venonat resembles butterfree more than metapod does.
I would be 100% fine if Game Freak retconed any of those lines.
Wait until Game Freak reveal this in conjunction of Digglet's/Dugtrio's full body, Kangaskhan's baby true species, Munna and Tirtouga being retaken Pokemon, etc. as part of #Pokemon20
kongpang refers to insect and the sound of a radar. venonat is just a fuzzy cartoon insect with emphasis on the coumpound eyes typical to bugs
stop. the bugs make sense, the rest doesnt
japanese names were made by the development team. english names were made by the north american localization who doesn't know shit. seaking (the king of the sea) is a fresh water fish. mr. mime can be male and female. kek
I think he means that old concepts that never made it to the games were reused to create those pokemon.
tirtouga from the turtle in G/S beta concept art and munna from how a female trainer in R/B refers to a pink pokemon with a floral pattern
I honestly think they switched Butterfree and Venomoth knowing Butterfree is the far superior design and wanting to give it more screentime in the anime/make it more accessible in the game
Consider the following:
Venonat and Butterfree similarity is just a matter of artist's style. By these two evolutionary lines Gamefreak wanted to show how drastically insects' appearance change after metamorphose, so it was not their intention to make butterflies similar to larvae.
Why not just retcon Venonat out of existence and just do what they did with Wurmple and just have Metapod evolve into either Butterfree or Venomoth depending on its personality values? Or would that make too much sense for GF to do?
implying that there arent other pokemon with fucked typing. just because gf didnt make it water/dragon doesnt mean it isnt one. flygon is clearly based on a dragonfly but isnt part bug type.. besides this is about appearance not typing.
Also in this egg group;
Pretty retarded to consider those dragons to be honest. Might as well call pidgey a dragon based on some myth from the congo or something
It's not venomoth, its never been venomoth, and it will never be venomoth. Right now all of you that think caterpie was supposed to turn into venomoth have that literal autistic condition where if something doesnt fit perfectly its not meant to be. Chances are, if the caterpie thing bothers you, this will too.
Does that look like a fucking butterfly to you? It's a moth. You can cry about TEH EYEZ all you fucking want, but it doesn't change the fact that VENOMOTH ISN'T A FUCKING BUTTERFLY.
I never said anything remotely similar to the dumb statement you are trying to associate with me.
In fact, saying Charizard is a dragon because he can learn dragon moves is like saying Golurk is a bird because he can learn fly
>all Flying-types are birds
>implying bats are birds
>implying bugs are birds
>implying dandelions are birds
>implying trees are birds
>implying balloons are birds
>implying squirrels are birds
>implying genies are birds
>implying owls are birds
You're just immune to any sort of analogy that gets thrown your way, aren't you? Obviously non-bird pokemon can learn fly, just as non-dragon pokemon like Lapras, Charizard, and Gyarados can learn Dragon Pulse
I don't think Magikarp ~ Dragonite undermines the idea behind the legend though.
If anything they probably started with a bunch of designs and moved them around as more designs came out.
Like this >>25007434 might've been what they sat there looking at and went: "Man a lot of this is fucking stupid".
I really doubt Psyduck ~ Farfetch'd were going to be related.
and no way was Charmeleon anything other than the bridge between Mander and Rizzard
but I can see Butterfree being a lot better for players to encounter early on as a reward for completing a pokevolution than a big ugly looking moth.
are you stupid
also look at the dragonair's beta design >>25007436
>Diglett -> Weedle -> Seal
Fuck, I lost it
I never understood what people is trying to prove on these.
Why are you assuming the change was made at last minute and not in the middle of the design process.
It could have been something like:
> Oh the new magikarp evolution (dragonite) is too cool.
> Yeah, we should use it as a semilegendary, let's just put it in the dratini line and make a new magikarp evolution (gyarados).
I personally think that's not the case and that they were planned as they were relased, but trying to prove it with shit that could have been changed easily is just stupid.
>moth's can't be pretty
okay, see, I actually really really like that venomoth. that;s what I've been wanting all along really.
need to oblong the butterfrees eyes like they originally were though. otherwise they look all bulbous.
>Posts 3 evolutions as they appear in all official Pokemon canons
>Over 90 comments
There's a a very good chance that Venomoth and Butterfrees places were switched, but it wasn't an accident. Caterpie was probably always meant to be an early mon while Venonat a little later in the game, but seeing as Caterpie would see more use by kids, it had better marketing potential. Thus, it made sense to switch the relatively more monstrous Venomoth with the cuter, infantile Butterfree
You know how they could retcon Pokemon evolving into each other like this without adding a middle evolution? The justification in-game could be that they just recently discovered the method of evolution between the Pokemon. That way Luvdisc can finally evolve into Alomomola and Unown into Sigilyph.
I think it had to do with the typing, Caterpie would be too similar to Weedle if it was a poison type. That makes 2 early game poison bugs. So they stuck Venomoth later in the game and made Caterpie turn into Butterfree instead
Dragonair's beta design shows a clear design connection with Dratini and Dragonite. Magikarp and Gyarados have plenty of design similarities.
Acording to the index numbers Gyarados and Dragonite were both created before Magikarp and Dragonair
Holy fuck, can we please stop with this shitty meme? Pic related is a common mormon caterpillar, which Caterpie is clearly based on.
and THIS is a swallowtail butterfly, which the above caterpillars metamorphose into.
Venonat > Butterfree was never intended to happen.
also here's a common mormon pupa
I once found a bunch of these on a lime tree in my garden and kept them until they matured - you have no fucking clue how much it blew my 10-year-old mind that I had basically trained my very own team of Caterpies into Butterfrees
it's such a shame that the coolest part of her design - the cuddly look and radar-like eyes aren't carried over to venomoth
oh wait, there's another flying bug in the game that's cuddly and has radar-like eyes
>saying Charizard is a dragon because he can learn dragon moves
>non-dragon pokemon like Lapras, Charizard, and Gyarados can learn Dragon Pulse
I never said those things make them dragons. They're dragons because that's what they are. There is no Fish type but that doesn't mean Magikarp is not a fish.
This guy >>25007666 already explained it to you, not sure why you're having trouble understanding.
nice theory... however, it has already been made public that kakuna and metapod had been mistakenly sprite switched...
since when english people can write POKÉMON with their retarded keyboard ?
>it has already been made public that kakuna and metapod had been mistakenly sprite switched
bullshit. source or gtfo
the only thing that has been confirmed about the weedle line's conception is that weedle was supposed to evolve into a ladybug scrapped pokemon
>hurr hurr gyarados is blue and serpentine so obviously it was supposed to be dratini's final evo!
>Nidoran F, Sandshrew
>Dratini, Ekans, Dragonair
>kabuto, Shellder, Parasect
WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING
The whole pic is just connecting Pokemon that share a single similar body part. For your example, it's (tail on fire)-->(duck bill). For the Diglet one, it's (pink ellipsoid nose)-->(stubby head spike). Chansey, it's (pouch) and so on.
I wouldnt say mixed up. The thing is Flygon's (the green antlion dragon) japanese name is actually Flygon. So even though bagon > shelgon > flygon was setup for the english localization, having two different pokemon have the same name, one in each language, would be confusing as fuck, even for trademarking purposes
>butterfree has the same colour scheme, antennae, eyes, feet, and fangs as venonat
>butterfree's head is a fucking venonat sans fur on top of a butterfly body
>"HOW CAN THIS THEORY EVEN EXIST IT MAKES NO SENSE THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY ZERO VISUAL SIMILARITY WHATSOEVER"
Venonat and Butterfree were designed by the same artist, while Caterpie was drawn by someone else.
How hard is this to understand. 'nat and 'free look similar because the same person drew them, like how Mega Houdnoom and Vullaby have the same skull designs.
There is no 'fish' type though. But there is a 'dragon' type. Dragonite is a dragon, Salamence is a dragon, Haxorus is a dragon, Charizard is NOT a dragon. Just as Magikarp is a water pokemon, Azurill is NOT a water pokemon
Why are you unable to distinguish between dragon, the creature, and Dragon, the Pokemon type? Volcarona and Flygon are still flying creatures even though they don't have the Flying type. Pokemon can still be things that aren't their types.
There are no dragons in pokemon, there are only dragon pokemon, it really is cut and dry.
There is nothing to suggest Gyarados, Charizard, or others are dragon pokemon other than the fact that they 'look like one.' Sudowoodo looks like a tree, but it isn't, Azurill looks like a water pokemon, but it isn't.
And that flying example isn't very good. Flying is something that can be achieved, it's an action, whether it is done by flying pokemon or not, but a pokemon can't just 'be a dragon' by acting like one or otherwise
>Azurill looks like a water pokemon, but it isn't.
As much as I loved the total type change upon evo, I'm glad that line got a secondary type that, y'know, gives them a reason to be a single line.
STOP FUCKING POSTING THAT STUPID GYARADOS DRAGONITE SWAP
GYARADOS IS BASED ON A CHINESE LEGEND AND THEY'RE BOTH CLEARLY FUCKING FISH. THEY EVEN SHARE THE SAME FINS AND WHISKERS, FUCK
AND LOOK AT DRAGONAIR, IT'S SO BLATANTLY SNAKE-LIKE WHICH IS A FUCKING REPTILE, AS DRAGONS ARE TOO.
Considering the amount of old evos in gen 4 I wonder if they originally intended for this. Then garchomp ended up looking so cool that they couldnt just let it just be an evo for a shitmon that no one cares about. The design was good enough to be the region dragon and so gible and gabite were born instead. Then they made it's type ground and made up some bullshit about it being a jet plane to dodge it's relation to sharpedo as much as possible.
I hate all the other ones except this. It also explain the retarded existence of Gible and Gabite. Garchomp also looks more like water/dark or even dragon/dark than he does dragon/ground.
I hate the concept of changing evolutions so much that I will ignore how cool this is even if it might have saved Sharpedo's retarded tailless design.
see this is venomoth in absolute, they even managed to give venomoth the ending tails on the hidwings.
you nubs can bitch all you want, but it is caterpie -> Metapod - > venomoth. GF fucked up.
Shitters don't know magikarp and gyarados are based of japanese carp windsocks.
Not to mention, they're also based on the Chinese mythology of the Dragon Gate, which is even referenced in Pokemon Snap. There are too many intentions on Pokemon's behalf to make the theory believable.
Is this scenarios so hard for people to believe?
Ken sugimori is sitting at his desk.. Trying to design interesting creatures but nothing he is not having any good ideas...
After scrunching up piece of paper after piece of paper he goes.
'Oh, I know I will go back and have a look at some of the other ones I came up with for some ideas"
Why is that so hard to imagine?
you're a bad fan if you dont know this.
the concept was later reused for Ledian
Guys what if they just switched how they look and their names but kept the same in moves and type? Butterfree would have all venomoth moves and type and venomoth would not be poison at all. I guess they can't do it because of the anime
Wait wait. Sharpedo doesn't have a tail? Dang I always thought it's artwork was in a swimming pose so that the tail was just hidden behind the body.
this fucks me up.
Caterpie --> Venonat --> Metapod --> Butterfree --> Venemoth
>yfw In-Training --> Rookie --> Champion --> Ultra --> Mega
The red eyes of venonat and the red eyes of the reddit white faggot little guy you fucktards get fucking wreckt i swear on me mums life if you faggits keep making these stupud fucking canon non canon threads ill report everyone to the mods and janitors dont think they wont ban you fuckers this is not on topic and you hve a ll been reported and saged and hidden
if anything mantine could be the third stage
remoraid > octillery > mantine
revolver > cannon > fighter plane
the remoraids on mantine are the bombs/missiles/whatever from the plane
>diglet into weedle
>spearow into pidgeotto
>ratatta into mew into pursian
>dodrio into executor
>literally everything else
False, false, and false.
>Flygon is called Flygon in Japanese
>Bagon is NOT called Bagon in Japanese
>Shelgon is NOT called Shelgon in Japanese
I bet you're the type that complains that Mr. Mime can be female.
It's funny, Onix -> Arbok would've worked quite well in Gen I due to its oddness, if you consider the basilisk lore.