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Let's go down this shit point by point:
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You are currently reading a thread in /vp/ - Pokemon

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Let's go down this shit point by point:

>chose his starter to honor his father vs. got pikachu because he was late

Yes, getting one of the three Pokemon guaranteed to everyone when your competition was only one other dude is really impressive. Meanwhile, Ash formed an unbreakable bond quickly with his partner despite a rocky start.

>filled up a Pokedex vs. got one that was already filled

You are comparing two different storytelling devices. One is designed to fill a goal/gameplay completion requirement, the other is to serve as a fucking guidebook to the universe the character lives in. Which, in the end, fits better with the fact that this is a universe people have been living in for fucking years where they're part of everyday life; the games emphasize the mystery of Pokemon while the Anime they're all known quantities

>caught 150 Pokemon + legendaries verses hasn't caught them all in Kanto and moves on to different regions

Ash's goal was never to catch 150 Pokemon, that was only in the dub, and even then, dropped after the early episodes. At least Ash continues to bond with his partners instead of focusing on only one to the detriment of everyone else, who just sit and fill up Pokedex boxes. Red only fucking cares about his Charizard; he didn't even evolve his spearow and needed to catch Fearow later. Does that sound like someone who fucking cares about his Pokemon and gives them all equal attention?

>Lost to his rival once, it never happened again vs. Ash defeated Gary once, it never happened again

It's a fucking video game, you're designed to win. That being said, Origins goes out of its way to treat Blue like a joke past the first episode, so this is nothing worth bragging about in that context either. Ash has also had numerous rivals who he has gone through different situations with besides one recurring asshole.
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>>24982382

>Had Giovanni disband Team Rocket verses Can't Defeat Team Rocket's Stupidest Minions

Giovanni fucked off of his own accord, but even then, Red DIDN'T DEFEAT TEAM ROCKET. He pushed off one figurehead, and they came back. GOLD defeated Team Rocket.

Team Rocket are cockroaches; they keep coming back because, despite being bunglers, they know losing a fantasy cockfight doesn't mean you have to stop whatever you're doing. But even then, Ash has played a huge part in stopping Team Magma, Aqua, Galactic, AND Plasma, and they've all never come back either, in addition to numerous movie villains who have their own influence and power

Maybe if this were a comparison to Brendan/May, Lucas/Dawn, Nate/Rosa or Calem/Serena, there'd be a point, but they actually managed to FINISH THE JOB

>Never abandoned his Pokemon vs. let's them go so they can be happy

Yes, let's praise the fucker who, in universe, claims to love and support Pokemon, only to treat his Spearow like a catalog number and then later throw rocks at Chansey
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>>24982388

>Officially a league champion verses isn't a Pokemon Master

Many athletes and performers train their whole lives without reaching the highest pinnacle of their field. Red is Champion because the games are finite, while the anime is an ongoing story in a particular individual's life. Ash has had a long and fulfilling career (by his own standards) and is continually driven to do more. Is he "the best that ever was"? No, because the games and the anime are telling VERY DIFFERENT STORIES. Over half a century later, Batman and Superman are never going to "win" their effort to stamp out crime, and neither is any other superhero - are THEY failures?

But objectively, becoming champion in a game/Origins context is relatively easier, on account your competition is solely the gym leaders, elite four, and whomever is currently sitting at the top. Ash, meanwhile, has to win all eight gym battles per region just to QUALIFY, followed by winning a tournament that's entered by dozens of contestants, many of which happen to have been doing this just as long or longer than him, and if he should win THAT, THEN he gets the chance to battle the elite four and champion, a position that's held solely by adults who are consistently portrayed (with the exception of Aaron) as being far beyond your everyday trainer

so in conclusion: Red ain't shit
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>>24982388
he throws rocks at chansey? link to vid
:-:
>>
>Red
>got his Jolteon OHKO'd by a Rhyhorn's thunderbolt
>>
>Ashfags

Dismiss. Kindly fuck off back to your containment.
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>>24982457

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-oX6isLDis

8:37

He actually only considers it, but it's fucking stupid considering how much they build him up as caring about Pokemon
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>>24982493

what a compelling and rational argument

Redfags, everyone
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>>24982382
>Meanwhile, Ash formed an unbreakable bond quickly with his partner despite a rocky start.

So did Red. The fact is Ash still woke up late. At least Red was on time.

>You are comparing two different storytelling devices
And Ash doesn't accomplish anything nearly as difficult to compensate.

>At least Ash continues to bond with his partners instead of focusing on only one to the detriment of everyone else, who just sit and fill up Pokedex boxes

But Ash does exactly that by focusing only on Pikachu for the long run and leaving everyone else at Oak's. At least Red is learning and mastering every kind of Pokemon while Ash isn't.

>It's a fucking video game, you're designed to win

Which is why Red lost to Giovanni, right?

>Origins goes out of its way to treat Blue like a joke past the first episode
No it doesn't. He's the fucking champion by the end of Origins. That's not a joke. Meanwhile Gary lost midway through the league and became a scientist. And THEN he beat Ash again with his Electivire. That's pretty sad.

> but they actually managed to FINISH THE JOB
Neither did Ash. And getting the boss of Team Rocket to leave and delaying them for years is still FAR better than what Ash has done to stop Team Rocket.

>only to treat his Spearow like a catalog number
This isn't any different from Ash.

>and then later throw rocks at Chansey
it's within the rules of the Safari Zone. Don't pretend using Stone Edge against Pokemon constantly is any better.

>Red is Champion because the games are finite
or because Red is actually competent


sorry Ashnimefag. Your argument doesn't hold.
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>Being so shit that you're given badges out of pity

How is this even an argument, Ash is a terrible trainer and obviously has autism if making friends with his Pokemon is more important than winning with them.
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>>24982501
Using the fact a shitty character like Ash is allowed to take the place of every other protagonist as an argument for him being better is just a bad joke. Is taking down retards like Galactic and Plasma supposed to be remotely impressive when only the plot called for stopping the bad guys? And you stupidly forget all he did in terms of Magma and Aqua was help stop Groudon and Kyogre from rampaging out of control. Totally playing a pivotal role in stopping an entire organization specifically, yep.

And no, I'm not a Redfag, you retarded faggot. I just recognize just how shit Ash is.
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>>24982520

>But Ash does exactly that by focusing only on Pikachu for the long run and leaving everyone else at Oak's. At least Red is learning and mastering every kind of Pokemon while Ash isn't.

Pikachu is his closest friend. But even then, all of his Pokemon continue to grow stronger and when they return, it's often with new strengths and new attacks.

There's also the fact that he literally CAN'T bring them with him while still being able to catch new Pokemon, but that doesn't matter to you people I guess. That being said, Red doesn't learn or master anything but Charizard, he just shoves them in a box and forgets about them

>Which is why Red lost to Giovanni, right?

The one meaningful divergence in a story that relies overly so on the letter of the games

>No it doesn't. He's the fucking champion by the end of Origins. That's not a joke. Meanwhile Gary lost midway through the league and became a scientist. And THEN he beat Ash again with his Electivire. That's pretty sad.

Origins has multiple scenes where Green is made out to be humorous or pathetic compared to Red, and he's not intimidating at all. His Champion battle is also not even the dramatic crux of the final episode; Giovanni and Mewtwo are given more weight.

And Pikachu and Electivire isn't even the same case, either; it's a one off rematch with no stakes at all between two veterans of both teams that had different results.
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>>24982520

>Neither did Ash. And getting the boss of Team Rocket to leave and delaying them for years is still FAR better than what Ash has done to stop Team Rocket.

Ash has encountered the main force of Team Rocket all of twice, and it was only briefly. Meanwhile, Magma, Aqua, Galactic, and Plasma, Lawrence, Godai, Marcus, Zero, and Phantom never rose back to power after their encounters with Ash

>This isn't any different from Ash.

But it is. Ash has a personal relationship with the majority of his Pokemon, while Red didn't even bother to evolve Spearow to complete his Pokedex

>or because Red is actually competent

so you're ignoring the fact that taking on the league involves legitimately fewer obstacles for Red?
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>>24982542

whatever the reason for it, those instances still happened, and even then - defeating those organizations eventually comes down to stopping their schemes with a specific legendary Pokemon in the games ANYWAY because of the fact that You Can't Fight Stage One is applied in the case of each and every one of them.

But Red getting credit for Giovanni stepping down even though he has no reason to beyond personal issues manages to fly? Why exactly does losing a battle mean Team Rocket has to disband again? That's not to Red's credit, it's to Giovanni's detriment; in the other games, their means to achieve their goals are actively taken from them or they're taken into custody, but Giovanni fucks off because he lost a handful of battles?

What a fucking joke.
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>>24982542
When the hell was the last time Ash received a pity badge? I think Roxie could of been considered one but i never really watched BW.
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>>24982620
Sorry was meant for >>24982533
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>>24982520

How does being on time give him a stronger bond? Charmander was obedient from the start, with Pikachu Ash had to earn it.

Ash saves the world multiple times, beaten multiple legendaries, and beaten the Battle Frontier. Ash employs unconventional strategy to overcome stronger opponents and bad type matchups. Red just plows through everything with Charizard's plot armor.

Bullshit, Ash bonds with multiple Pokemon every season. Red doesn't master shit, he just captures everything and sends it to the PC.

He doesn't win all the time, but his wins are practically handed to him. They don't employ proper game logic nor anime tactics, he wins just because.

Ash hasn't stopped TR but he stopped every other evil team.

Again, bullshit. Aside from a few things like Krabby, he doesn't just catch shit to fill his roster, he's very selective and bonds with his mons.

There is a difference between having Pokemon fight and attacking them yourself. It goes back to Ash caring more about Pokemon and being a good trainer than anything.

Red doesn't do anything competent, he does the same shit as season 1 Ash, but wins anyway.
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>>24982588
>never rose back to power after their encounters with him

Because it was fucking written for him to do it, you stupid faggot. Any other more competent trainer could have accomplished that and more. There is nothing Ash has besides being the protagonist.
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>>24982620
That's really the closest thing if only because it was 6 of Ash's vs. 3 of Roxie's like what happens in the games and Pecha Berries.
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>>24982632
>saves the world
>beaten multiple Legendaries
Guess what? You could do that exact shit in the games, you fucking moron. Pathetic.
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>>24982652
And Red and every other Pokemon character is coded or written to defeat the villains of the game and to have the ability to capture legendaries and such with zero repercussion.
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>>24982652

>
Because it was fucking written for him to do it, you stupid faggot. Any other more competent trainer could have accomplished that and more. There is nothing Ash has besides being the protagonist.

That's literally what Red does though. Giovanni has no obligation to stop doing anything because he lost to Red. He just does it ANYWAY.

Meanwhile Ash played an active fucking role in each of those villains, and was even selected by several of the meaningful law enforcement characters and legendary Pokemon to assist him. I will give you that Galactic's defeat is kind of vague and weird, but literally all of those others Ash was in the thick of things with his effort playing a distinct role in seeing things to a conclusion.

That's more impressive than a situation where a crime boss decides to give up his profitable and extensive criminal empire because losing to a ten year old gave him the fee fees
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>>24982382
Origins has a ton of problems but it beats the Ashnime by virtue of not being 800 episodes of filler where everything gets reset at the end of each region.
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Tricky situation because both are shit characters for different reasons. You're just arguing which shit is shinier.
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>>24982690

>shit gets reset

Yeah I mean how dare this team of newly caught Mons not be as powerful as ones that have an entire generation of experience behind them right
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>>24982668

More than Red did, you deflecting faggot.
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>>24982704
Just throwing away all his Pokémon besides Pikachu (who gets reverted back to being a weakling every time) is a reset in its own right, you haven't contradicted me.
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>>24982678
Let me think, because they're actually competent trainers who can stomp the entire group on their own and are explicitly told they're the only one who can stop the Legendary Pokemon after reaching their full potential?

You're actually getting petty and trying to compare it to Ash obnoxiously being shoehorned into somehow saving the day as many times as possible no matter how tired it becomes? Fuck off.
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>>24982709

He doesn't throw them away, he keeps them at Oak's and then brings them back for the League. Pikachu only reverted in BW, he beat a fucking mega in gym 3.
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>>24982715
But they were written/coded to do that, Just like how Ash was written to save the world or defeat legendaries in the anime/movies. What point are you trying to make when your logic is so flawed?
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>>24982719

Pikachu didn't even revert in Unova, he came down with Electric Type influenza for a while.
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>>24982709
The only actual time there's been any reset was BW.

XY had no reset.
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>>24982715

defeating nobodies with teams of shitmons verses

- running across a field of ice dodging legendary pokemon attacks in order to place critical plot tokens in specific places
- Riding on the backs of dragons as you fight a strange abomination in the shape of Groudon
- Repeatedly throwing himself into physical danger and surviving multiple injuries

and guess what each time he and the other main characters fight the villainous teams they also fight the grunts with shitmons and win, so

But no seriously, the Shadow Triad and their Liepard, those are totally dangerous
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>>24982707
>mentally resetting like a retard at the start of every new region and repeating the same shit is somehow a notable accomplishment

You mean it just makes the villains completely unintelligent.
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>>24982715
Also while my memory is vague, I can recall that in Gen 2 you get help from Lance, In gen 3 i think Steven helps you, Gen 4 you team up with Dawn or Barry multiple times, Gen 5 you team up with all of the gym leaders and in BW2 you team up with Hugh and N saves your life. Team Rocket is arguably the weakest villains in the franchise so Red soloing them (at least according to my memory) makes sense, Not to mention i don't think ANY of the protagonists of the game canonically defeat or capture any legendaries except for BW.
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Red didn't even "catch them all" outside of Origins because as of HGSS all of those same Pokemon are right back where you can normally find them
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>>24982741

>every new region

Unova, and that's it. I love how haters cling to this when even fans don't defend it.
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>>24982752

err, by those same pokemon, I mean "those same legendary Pokemon"
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>>24982382
Ash's feats mean nothing though, in proportion to his universe, where everything can be solved through friendship and hugs, and what can't can be solved by shooting lightning bolts at it. He's a terrible trainer, so no matter how many times he's been in the right place at the right time, another trainer could have done better. Cynthia, Tobias, Lance, or even, hell, that Lucario kid from Unova could have stopped the Mozart Trio, or calmed Hoopa-U, or whatever. If Ash were not present, a better trainer could have done it. He just fucks around, gets shoved into circumstances a retarded child in his universe could fix, and leaves without anything new.

Red's feats are pretty big, however. He achieved the completion of the Pokedex, achieved Mega Evolution, captured legendary Pokemon including Mewtwo, and even became champion of the region. Through his effort, he achieved his goals and became respected, instead of fucking around and falling into coincidence like Ash.

Effort > Luck
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The anime is shit that's gone on with the same formula for far too long, Ash is a shit character, and Origins is a rushed mediocre distraction.

Trying to argue that about who's better is fucking stupid. I don't doubt at least one person in this thread is just trying to bait an autists into an argument.
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>>24982754

Ash didn't even "revert" in Unova. He got excited and skipped a step once and did something a little embarrassing. The other stuff he "allegedly forgot" is all stuff he rarely paid attention to or didn't care about in AG and Sinnoh. Ash doesn't pay attention to type matchups or his Pokemon's gender as a rule
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>people say Game Red "caught them all"
>all of the Pokemon he uses in GSC are Pokemon that are either given to you, are the evolved form of something given to you, or something literally blocking your way

Red only canonically caught Snorlax
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>>24982727
Are you fucking stupid? Those average trainers grow through the course of one simple adventure while encountering the villains and stop Legendaries from fucking everything up before ultimately finishing their league challenge and becoming new champions.

Ash is entirely shoehorned into the all the shit he somehow takes care of just because he's the protagonist when literally another protagonist from the actual games could do that and more. Not to mention, the Ashnime's universe in particular is retarded and does whatever the writers feel like.
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>>24982758
To be honest, I doubt that in the entire Pokemon World there are only one of most Legendaries that aren't "box Ubers", the Eon duo, and Mythicals.

There'd be so few of, for example, Zapdos, that it would be considered Legendary, yes, but I doubt there'd be only one.
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>>24982807
Ash is entirely shoehorned into the all the shit he somehow takes care of just because he's the protagonist when literally another protagonist from the actual games could do that and more.

I literally caught Groudon using a Pokemon I got in Origin Cave
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>>24982777
Well obviously any champion could of done what Ash does, Cameron couldn't because he is literally the biggest moron in the entire anime so i doubt he would even know the world is ending or if he was in danger and while there are better trainers then Ash, Ash is still among the best trainers in the world, He has regularly managed to hit top 16 and most of the time top 8 in the Pokemon League where hundreds of trainers enter and compete, With thousands trying to get the badges to enter. I mean really Ash is one of the few trainers who are both skilled strong and kind enough to fight against legendaries and calm them down. Also he did have a whole prophecy about him in one of the movies which makes him a tad bit more special then other trainers.

Also Ash has seen nearly every Pokemon thus far achieved a powerful transformation that hasn't been seen in literally hundreds of years (Ash Greninja) which is arguably a better feat then achieving Mega Evolution which he could probably still achieve and Ash has defeated Legendaries and become friends with them in the past.
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>>24982812

so, what, Red caught fucking Mewtwo and another one decided to set up shop in the exact same fucking cave?
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>>24982821

err that first part should be a quote
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>>24982829
>Red caught fucking Mewtwo and another one decided to set up shop in the exact same fucking cave?
Okay, that is less plausible, unless someone made another Mewtwo which, again, would be extremely difficult to do.
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>>24982807
And Ash managed to prevent Mewtwo from destroying all of humanity pretty much solo before the League when he was at his dumbest and weakest. I will give you a point for Ash not beating the league where as the game protagonists have defeated the league in like you said one adventure, Then again i could make a argument for Game E4 to be piss easy weak and Anime E4 for being far beyond them but yeah you have a point there.
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>>24982821
But that's a entirely optional part of the game, Which arguably canonically never happened since you can capture Groudon in later games.
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>>24982847
>when he was at his dumbest and weakest

Did Mewtwo come back for Best Wishes?
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>>24982869
Okay BW Ash really is Ash at his worst, May have forgotten about BW since i never watched it (Thank god) Okay so at his SECOND worst.
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>>24982869
From a Watsonian perspective, I like to believe that, by the beginning of BW, Ash was so traumatized by Tobias that just for one region he decided to literally pretend to be retarded.

From a Doylist perspective, I like to believe that the writers were passive-aggresively rebelling against the producers for not finally letting Ash win a League Conference.
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>>24982824
>more special than other trainers
Don't tell me you think that's even remotely good.

>seen nearly Pokemon thus far
Because he's the protagonist and the writing calls for every episode or movie that features paticular Pokemon?

>achieved a special transormation
The protagonist of a show meant to market the franchise just happens to have a better bond with their popular new Pokemon than absolutely every other trainer and their Pokemon and get such a thing before anyone else. Real impressive. That doesn't sound stupid at all.
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>>24982853

point is, the in game challenges don't really show "personal growth" because literally all that matters is making sure you have a Pokemon of a comparable level to what you're currently fighting
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>>24982869
Pikachu getting well and truly pissed with Ash being this stupid even after all those years is just priceless.
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>>24982913

But

none of Pikachu's attacks are more effective against Emolga either

he has no Pokemon that cover BOTH of her weaknesses at that point
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>>24982890
>Don't tell me you think that's even remotely good.

Well yeah, It means that he was basically chosen to save the world which means that some deity considers Ash to have qualities no other person possesses,

>Because he's the protagonist and the writing calls for every episode or movie that features paticular Pokemon?

Same could be said for the protagonists of the games happening to go through the EXACT areas where almost all of the Pokemon of that region happen to live in. I guess i can say that Origins Red probably did go out of his way to catch every Kanto Pokemon but even then he was written to do so which means his feat means nothing by your argument.

>he protagonist of a show meant to market the franchise just happens to have a better bond with their popular new Pokemon than absolutely every other trainer and their Pokemon and get such a thing before anyone else. Real impressive. That doesn't sound stupid at all.

Except multiple other people in the past has achieved said transformation, It's just been hundreds of years since the last one. It also makes sense since it seems to only happen to Greninjas and Ash tends have very close bonds with his Pokemon
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>>24982891
Fair enough.
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>>24982890

Way to prove you don't actually understand shit about the show.

The bond isn't stronger than other Pokemon, it's just a transformation specific to certain Greninja that's triggered by a strong enough bond. And Froakie specifically chose Ash after abandoning all its other trainers, because it recognized his skill and passion.

>>24982777

No one said that Ash is THE greatest trainer in the universe, at least not yet. But he's obviously extremely competent with Pokemon and extremely heroic to do all the shit he did, when many other people could not. You're trivializing his accomplishments claiming anyone could resolve them when that's just fucking wrong.

Red didn't do anything better than Ash, in fact he actually fought worse, but won because the plot demanded it.
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>>24982952
>some deity considers him to have qualities no other person possesses
Complete shit writing.

>his feat means nothing by your argument
Here's the difference, Ash just runs into them as part of a filler episode or a movie that features them while Red straight up searches all of Kanto during his adventure. That does not hurt his feat in the slightest.

>seems to only happen to Greninjas
That is just disgusting. And worst of all it's the only way it won't sound absolutely retarded that no trainers who have been with their bros longer achieved it, but he and some other people in the past did.
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>>24982382
you cant compare them/their arcs. red is allowed an ending, ash isnt.
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>>24982999
Except every trainer that isn't retarded could accomplish what he did. There is nothing that makes Ash more special than a trainer that isn't some shitty character of the day. An Ace Trainer or Veteran would easily blow him out of the water.
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>>24983018
>Here's the difference, Ash just runs into them as part of a filler episode or a movie that features them while Red straight up searches all of Kanto during his adventure. That does not hurt his feat in the slightest.

His journey takes him on a literal guided tour of Kanto, and the only remaining spots after he's done are a fucking cave that used to be blocked off when he first passed by

that's not exactly "scouring the earth" bro
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>>24983067

I'd have to say someone willing to fucking run through danger and take physical threats to his person as often as Ash does has a number of uncommon qualities not found in most people
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>>24983067

You say that, yet no one in Sinnoh could defeat Tobias's Darkrai, let alone take down his Latios as well.

In fact, based on how it played out, if Ash sent Sceptile out first, it would have beaten Darkrai, then Pikachu ties with Latios, then Gible sweeps the rest of his team like he said it would.

Doesn't sound like "any trainer" to me.
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>>24983018

>Complete shit writing.

Sure but it still means Ash simply has qualities nobody else has which explains why no one else or at least only a few other people could achieve the same feats.

>Here's the difference, Ash just runs into them as part of a filler episode or a movie that features them while Red straight up searches all of Kanto during his adventure. That does not hurt his feat in the slightest.

Yeah and Red gets them all in a montage and Ash has encountered literally hundreds more Pokemon and could of caught them if he really felt like it or wanted to. Not to mention once again by your argument Red encountered all of them because he was written to do so and only did so in a shitty montage. How isn't that also shit writing? Not to mention Red is never implied to have any specific qualities about himself different from others and yet he catches one of each Kanto Pokemon species? Where no one else (from what i can recall) ever achieved? How isn't that even stupider then Ash achieving a new evolution for Greninja?

That is just disgusting. And worst of all it's the only way it won't sound absolutely retarded that no trainers who have been with their bros longer achieved it, but he and some other people in the past did.

Like i just said, Somehow Red is the only person in the history of Kanto to capture one of each type of Pokemon? Not to mention there are only three Greninja's in XY thus far two of which are the only Pokemon of ninjas who have a entire myth about Hero/Ash Greninja. This seems to imply that Greninjas are just rather rare. We have seen plenty of Froakie but only two Frodagiers and three Greninjas.
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>>24983052
I think this could be considered a /thread
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>>24983109
>yet nobody in Sinnoh could defeat Tobias' Darkrai or Latios

Because? Tobias is already an absolute shit plot device with no buildup.

>>24983123
>simply has qualities no one else has

Absolutely no one in the animated universe shares any of the "exceptional" traits Ash has? And I thought this was bullshit already.

And Red being the only one to document most average Pokemon species is full retard, but it works for the birds and Mewtwo when there's no other stronger trainers in Kanto until years later. Again, Ash just happens to run into them for the sake of the plot while Red searches until he logically finds them naturally. Still retarded most weren't already recorded, but that's the difference.
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>>24982999
>because it recognized his skill and passion.

Well then it's not too big a shame that Froakie's skill is wasted on Ash because it clearly doesn't have brains. I hope it enjoys losing the league and staying on Oak's farm for the rest of its life.
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>>24983215

Absolutely no one in the animated universe shares any of the "exceptional" traits Ash has? And I thought this was bullshit already.

Pretty much yeah. I mean to start with you have a guy who is one of the strongest trainers in the world (Probably at least top 30) Is clearly skilled (much more so in XY and DP) Is a outright prodigy and despite all of this is rather kind and caring towards his Pokemon. He is capable of fighting and defeating legendaries and in DP a single Darkrai was powerful enough to sweep all of Sinnoh so this just makes that feat way more impressive. He is also heroic and reckless enough to throw himself into absurdly dangerous situations and has outright sacrificed his life once or twice before. Not to mention he grew up in Pallet Town where the very well known Professor Oak lives who supports him on his journey and provides him with a Pokedex. I mean really with all of this combined you have a Prodigy who has possibly the best possible starting town for his journey. Has a heroic nature and was raised by a very kind woman who has taught him the same morals and has pretty much perfect traveling companions each region who are also rather skilled or rather talented in their own regards. Currently we have Clemont who is probably one of the smartest people in the world, Serena who while not there yet is talented enough to obtain multiple princess keys and she is pretty much a model and Bonnie is forging a close bond with a legendary Pokemon who is in charge of the ecosystem. Hell i think she was protected by Xerneas in one episode which practically SCREAMS chosen by a deity to succeed and this is without going into all of Ash's other talented companions who have helped him on his journey and played a massive role in becoming the trainer he is today. Basically Ash is like Life on Earth. He has all of the right qualities and by the animes standards is probably one of the greatest prodigies the world has ever seen.
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>>24983215

2 of them are LITERALLY IN HIS FUCKING WAY
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>>24983261
Anyways i need to go for a few hours. So it would probably be a waste of time to reply to my posts any longer. Just a fair warning,
>>
>>24983261
So you admit it's straight up shit writing. I know this is a children's show, but that doesn't make it an excuse.
>>
What is there to gain from arguing between someone who was made to win and someone who was made to show that even if you try your best, you're not guaranteed anything(Also poor writing mainly poor writing )
>>
>>24982382
>>24982388
>Ashfags are this salty.
>>
>not talking about Pokemon adventures red
You all have shit taste.
>>
>>24983550
Generally speaking fanfiction isn't welcome in discussions like this.
>>
>>24983558
If that's the case, then why did op post about the Ashime?
>>
I don't fucking understand the "Ash's accomplishments against evil teams and legendaries doesn't count because he's just guided into them artificially" when Kanto has the biggest fucking excuse plot in the franchise where you only learn about Team Rocket because they literally force you to meet them in a bridge you're FORCED to cross because it's the only way to progress the game
>>
>>24983565
The Ashnime is an official source.

If you were joking, your joke doesn't work when it's uninformed.
>>
>>24983565
>Ashime
?
>>
Red is a god in an universe of weaklings. Ash is a rock solid trainer in a competent universe. He was the only person person to beat Tobias's Darkrai and was strong enough to be offered the position of frontier brain. In Hoenn he had a very close match against the winner. Even in Johto he was able screw over Harrison by weakening his Blaziken.
>>
>>24982495
that's how shit rolls in the safari zone
>>
>>24983489
Huh was expecting this thread to be archived by now. Well i do not claim to know the first thing about writing. I rate things based upon whether i like them or not. Personally i enjoy the anime but that doesn't necessarily mean it has good writing.
>>
>>24983787

so if you want to pay homage to the games while still maintaining the illusion that Red is an actual character and not a walking cipher driven by shallow adherence to the game, only have him look at the food.
>>
>>24982382
> all these salty faggots defending ash
pathetic
>>
>>24983800
We all have our own ways to waste time Anon! Just like how you waste your time trying to act better then the people defending Ash due to your extremely low self esteem.
>>
>>24983621
It's just double-standards for morons that hate the anime.
Red:
>muh Red is so much better, he has beaten the League and defeated Giovanni, that's good writing, it's definitely not because he's the protag
Ash:
>hurrr he might have stopped countless catastrophies and beaten some of the strongest Pokemon on Earth but that's just poor writing because he's the protag huurrrr

Morons everywhere.
>>
>>24982395
Fucking this. Red literally made it on easy mode. No competition at all.

Ash must have 8 badges, must battle in a league with over 200 trainers there everybody also has 8 badges and can even use fucking legendaries before he even has a chance of battleing elite 4 and then the champion. And he being in the top 4 in a league with several hundreds of trainers makes him really fucking good.
>>
>>24983807
Sorry man, he got dubs, 00, means he's right.
>>
>>24985847
>dubs
Dubs mean jack shit. I'll believe him when he gets at least quads.
>>
>>24982869
ironically yes, there was a mewtwo in best wishes.
>>
Ash didn't get his ass kicked by a mary sue computer program in Death Battle.

Ash > Red
>>
Yeah...Red was the best.
>>
>>24983215
>Because? Tobias is already an absolute shit plot device with no buildup.

Because he was stronger than everyone, except Ash. This isn't about what you consider "shit writing," it's whether Ash is a stronger/more accomplished trainer than Red, and all signs point to yes. Stop moving the goalposts.
>>
>>24983218

>wasted
>hasn't lost a battle since it evolved into Frogadier, including sweeping the grass gym leader
>achieved a super saiyan form thanks to their bond

I love this "he's shit because he's Ash" mentality, even if he's clearly dominating.
>>
>>24986279
Ash is a charmed idiot. No one who barely understands type advantages and bumbles through battles like he does deserves to win anything significant.

He literally only wins because of deux ex machina bullshit
>>
>arguing with yourself over cartoons and getting, may I add, really riled up

Are you autistic?
>>
>>24986766
>He literally only wins because of deux ex machina bullshit
That's literally Red in Origins.

At least Ash has shown type advantage understanding in XY.
>>
>>24986766

I can point to multiple instances where Ash wins through ingenuity and insight. You people act like Thunder Armor is all that ever happens in this show and that's not the case.

To be frank, a type advantage steamrolling the opposition is immensely boring
>>
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>>24982382
Ash is a better character than Red. He has gained a lot of experience from travelling to every main region so far. He has also befriended more Pokémon and saved more legendary Pokémon than Red ever has.
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>>24986965
Pro tip, people that constantly rage about how shit Ash is and how much better "Red" is (never specifying WHICH Red) have rarely watched beyond Joho at most
>>
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>>24982382
Both are still shit compared to the real OG. Gold4Lyf mufuggaz
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>>24982382
Remember the reasoning for Giovanni disbanding TR in Origins?

>b-but he throws his poke ball like me so he reminds me of myself as a youth

What a load of crock bullshit.
>>
>>24983819
>hate the Ashnime
>morons

Pick one and fuck off. Gen I being badly written doesn't change how atrocious the alternative show is.

>>24986232
>Digimon
>Mary Sue

Opinion invalidated.
>>
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What so wrong about only caring about his bro?
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>>24986320
All the training's still going to go to waste when we get the inevitable "okay Ash is too good, we have to dumb him down or throw another Tobias at him" at the league.
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