why was it banned again?
it's slow as shit and you have to be a massive scrub in order to get done by sucker punch
why was it banned again?
it's frail as shit and you have to be a massive scrub in order to get done by air slash
You see, this is the reason pokemon like M-Mawile get banned. You only use top pokemon conducive to operating against a very specific set of other top pokemon and wonder why some outlier is able to sneak in and wipe away your shitty hyper-offense team. And even though options exist for it, you simply refuse to use them, and ban the problem instead to keep "muh meta" rolling strong.
>have to use a pokemon that beyond countering a single OU pokemon is dead weight
>you're basically playing 5v6 if your opponent doesn't have Mawile
>especially bad because it locks you out of using other megas
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 181-214 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO
>becomes 100% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
>Gets 2HKOed by standard move
wow that's not obscure at all
btw suicune's 64 in usage, right below meloetta and mandibuzz
Why was it banned again?
it's predictable as shit and you have to be a massive scrub in order to get done by shadow ball
The whole "as strong as fully invested 260 base attack" thing as well as 50/125/95 bulk with Intimidate may have something to do with it
>252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 199-235 (57.8 - 68.3%)
Why was it banned again?
It's predictable as shit and you have to be a massive scrub in order to get done by Dragon Ascent.
As for counters, you can just always run fully physical defensive Fairy Arceus - and youre fine!
+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 199-235 (57.8 - 68.3%)
dont forget it will also KO with just Superpower after SR and the second switch in
and, even more important: it will fvcking OHKO the first time you switch Vanilla Aggron in, if it predicts right!
counter, my ass
>I d-don't know what I'm talking about so I'll just greentext! T-that'll show him
No, you just don't know what you're talking about at all. It's certainly not perfect, but a reliable counter to a large amount of common threats. It's especially effective against smogonbird, and in general is great on stall. If you play Trick Room it's absolutely devastating, but you don't even need that to wreck shit with it.
It completely fucked over offensive teams
There are three playstyles in singles; Hyper Offense, Balance, and Stall
Variety is very important, so when a Pokemon fucks over an entire playstyle, it gets banned
>anything used will-o-wisp
>mega mawile is now shit and useless since the attack stat is all it have
See? It's easy as hell to hard counter Mega Mawile. Smogon just don't know how to use this simple and easy thing called "thinking".
>Wasting your mega slot on a wall with no recovery
>implying rest mega aggron is a viable pokemon in 2016 ou
If it used sub, you already won if you have a brain because it lost 25% of its health as a pokemon that already had little HP to begin with. Only smogonshitters can't take advantage of that.
>assblasted smogonfags mad because Talonflame can't handle THE WALL
>There are three playstyles in singles; Hyper Offense, Balance, and Stall
Offense is a blanket term for anything that's more offensive than Balance. It comes in a lot of variants, including niche ones. Hyper Offense is a term for teams that have zero defensive Pokemon, period, and it also comes in several sub-variants. Standard offense always carries one defensive or semi-defensive gluemon and that's what you usually see these days.
Balance has three defensive Pokemon. When it has four, it's called Fat/Bulky Balance. When it has five, it's called Semi-Stall.
Stall has no variety. It's a completely reactionary playstyle whose teams are molded by the metagame around it.
tl;dr stop throwing the term hyper offense out of context like a scrub
After lots of playing with it, I've concluded dragon tail is absolutely shit for mega aggron. It's a better choice to run with roar if you really need it since the number one thing that's going to fuck him over is a bulky sub-user.
Damn right, Aggron is a fucking beast on my team. These faggots also don't see Aggron makes up his lack of recovery outside of rest with great utility in Thunder-wave, stealth rock, Toxic, and Roar.
I actually have run into taunt a decent amount of times. Only problem for them is, most of the things that bother to run taunt isn't something I'd need to have to switch out on, so they just loose a turn to an earthquake or heavy slam. The defense is obviously the main attraction with mega aggron, but people forget it's a pretty fucking strong attacker too.
Well to be fair you posted Mega Aggron specifically in response to Talonflame, and Bulk up/acrobatics/taunt/roost is a really fucking common set that despite acrobatics' low damage output is going to win in the end unless you have stone edge too.
>that already had little HP to begin with
So then it doesnt really matter unless youre retarded and using a physical attack.
Lrn2sub fuckin loser
in the wrong situation, however, Aggron cannot switch in on Tflame.
>+2 252 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 184-217 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Youre better off not mega evolving actually. the extra defense isnt worth taking 75% more damage
>what is every single move in the game
>what is being prepared for each and every one.
Or if TFlame boosted and took something out first... ? And if Aggron isnt carrying a rock move it cant do anything to Tflame in 2 turns.
Its a counter, yes, but only if you have a moveset that counters every single possible Talonflame
Since you are a retard I will lay this out for you.
Counter: Can switch in on any of its moves and either force it out, or KO it.
Check: Can come in on a free switch (IE after you lose a mon) and force it out or kill it.
Those two are checks (not even good ones) but not counters.
Learn the fucking difference, the only counter to mawile is arcanine, and even then, mawile can use rock slide.
>Swagplay wasn't 50/50
What? That was the first that argument was thrown around, It wasn't 50/50 if you manage to paralyze.
>M. Mawile's subpunch set is pure 50/50
No that set was pretty straightforward and hit like a truck.
I swear some of y'all are becoming like vegans.
>Imagine two meat-eaters discussing their favorite places to eat at and then some vegan comes along saying "I'm vegan, you guys aren't allowed to talk about this". That's literally how some of u autists sound like. Kek
Well if talonflame(specifically that kind of talonflame) is your only answer to mega mawile, then I feel sorry for you buddy. It's ok tho, you can go ahead and pretend that's a reliable answer
>It's certainly not perfect
Welcome to OU. Now get the fuck out.
One day people will know the difference between a check and a counter, today is not that day sadly. Maybe one day people will know what the difference between a soft and hard counter is too.
But it was. Coupled with its attack, support and defence.
by definition of those guys, anything that has a resistance to a STAB or a super effective attack counters it
as such, talonflame & megaggron counter mawile
garchomp counters aegislash
electrivire counters kyogre
>Yes it was, and if you don't, you didn't play OU.
>>STILL thinking Aegislash was dangerous for its special attack
formulating it like that is really a bit mistaken.
aegislash was feared for its special attack amongst other traits (!), such as typing with a lot of resistances, versatile offense, unique mechanics (kings shield & form change).
so was aegislash feared for its special attack? yes, it was.
would it be feared if it had only (!) its special attack? no.
I miss Greninja. Was Greninja banned because it shit on balance teams too much, because I really liked how unpredictable its movesets were. I like having pokemon with more than 2 movesets.
Either way, I never really had a problem with Greninja, and it seemed pretty fair to me. I always just revenge killed it or sent in Porygon-2 to wall it and throw around Thunder Waves. Why did they ban it?
But I can't even really understand how someone CAN have a problem with it. Yeah, it's good, but all you really need to do is hit it back. Can't switch in on it? There's tons of shit that's nearly impossible to switch in on, like Charizard-X, Mega Medicham, and Kyurem-B. You think it's too fast? Mega Lopunny is faster, and is just as hard to switch in on. Seriously, where's the problem here?
The point is charizard x still does have switchins. Greninja had several of them too, most notably clefable and some other bulky steels and fairies. With the addition of gunk shot and low kick it pretty much had no switchins at all, and was thus banned
What OU pokemon can switch in on mixed Kyurem, though? What can switch in on Medicham? Hell, even Landorus-T can't even switch in on Medicham since it still OHKO's with Ice Punch even after the Intimidate drop.
>back in gen 4 days
>smogon bans garchomp because sand veil + yachechomp didn't have any reliable counters
>just bans the whole mon because just banning yache on chomp would be too complex
>shortly after, latias drops from ubers to OU but soul dew latias remains banned
>there remain a host of pokemon who are banned because of one ability they have when they could just ban the use of the ability itself
>half the time they say a complex ban would be too difficult and the other half they have no issues making complex bans like no swagger + foul play at the same time
>>shortly after, latias drops from ubers to OU but soul dew latias remains banned
soul dew as a whole is banned. That's not complex.
>>there remain a host of pokemon who are banned because of one ability they have when they could just ban the use of the ability itself
Like what? Speed Boost and Protean aren't inherently OP so banning the entire ability is stupid. Banning the specific ability on the specific Pokemon is complex.
>unbanning blaze blaziken and torrent greninja is too complex for smogon to implement
>meanwhile at swagplay and BP bans
Nobody but stallfags use Quagsire in OU. name something COMMON that's actually in the tier that can switch in on it.
I'll give you Sableye, though. However, you don't see people putting Sableye on teams JUST to deal with Mega Medicham. So clearly, being almost impossible to switch in on isn't really that big a deal. Greninja never should've been banned.
>>unbanning blaze blaziken and torrent greninja is too complex for smogon to implement
yes because then they have to consider every single pokemon in every single tier to drop down just because they have one ability that's too good. You can't just make an exception for "M-MUH BRO STARTER POKEMON"
Swagplay and Baton Pass are clauses so they're universal. The rules in the clauses themselves may be a bit more complicated than previous clauses but they don't open a retarded can of worms like unbanning specific abilities on specific Pokemon do.
>yes because then they have to consider every single pokemon in every single tier to drop down
kind of like the recent separation of pokemon who can mega evolve when you use them in a team without a megastone???
clearly banning the combination of a certain pokemon with a certain ability is too hard to implement
please keep strawmanning though, I've never used blaziken or greninja but the idea that it'd be too hard to unban a pokemon if it uses a certain ability is horseshit of the highest degree
Most Kyurem run Iron Head now. Clefable can't do shit since it doesn't oustspeed and is 1 or 2 hit KO's y Iron head. Standard set for Kyurem right now is:
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
EVs: 104 Atk / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Iron Head
2HKO's Chansey with Outrage, OHKO's Clefable with Iron Head. No known switch-ins, as far as I know.
Being impossible to switch into on its own isn't what pushed gren over the line. For instance, rampardos is shit while hitting like a truck.
No, gren got banned for a combination of its wallbreaking prowess, speed, coverage and shitting on any playstyle that wasn't stall.
You don't see Quagsire on Balance teams or Offense teams the way you see shit like Sableye and Landorus, though. You only see them on dedicated Stall teams, which are rare. If Quagsire were a valid example, it would be at least in UU by usage.
They're banning the forme (or the item, depending on how you want to look at it). It's still not complex. It's not any different from putting Kyurem and Kyurem-B in different tiers.
Gyarados is UU. If you have Gyarados holding a megastone, it's OU.
The item isn't banned, it's just useable in a seperate tier. Why couldn't they do the same for abilities, exactly? I'm not asking for Smogon's personal definition on what makes a ban simple or complex. You say that changing a tier based on a pokemon's ability opens a massive can of worms? I'd say we're only one step away from that with the aforementioned mega change.
>Why couldn't they do the same for abilities, exactly?
Because EVERY Pokemon has an ability, and some of them share abilities, while not every Pokemon can mega evolve and even then each mega evolution is specific to that Pokemon. The abilities by themselves aren't broken. Why the fuck should I not be allowed to use Protean Kecleon in OU just because it's broken on Greninja? Or I can't use Speed Boost Sharpedo in UU just because it's broken on Blaziken? That doesn't make any sense. It makes more sense to just ban Greninja and Blaziken because it's less restrictive for other Pokemon. Meanwhile there's nothing complex about treating Mega Evolutions as formes.
Are you suggesting to expand the tiering to treat each Pokemon+Ability combination separately? As in, Cute Charm Clefable, Magic Guard Clefable and Unaware Clefable are now tiered separately?
No, it's not a difficult concept to implement. But nobody other than you would ever want this to happen, so it won't.
wrong btw lol Quagsire gets downed by Ice Beam
I used it on my Balance team
There are 7 things that can switch into the common variants of Kyurem-B and heal off.
Even then, they have to run certain spreads. I didn't include things like Mega Audino or Mega Sableye because those are rolls to be 2HKO'd.
Scizor is the most prevalent answer, which is why some Kyurem-B pack HP Fire for it.