>Pikachu >Jigglypuff Anime >Charizard Gen 1/2 >Lucario Gen 3/4 >Greninja Gen 5/6
Honestly, I think Garchomp would've been a good fit for Smash brothers, as a sort of Grappler/heavy hybrid. It would actually represent the games, as one of the most popular and powerful Pokemon that is constantly in the spotlight. Garchomp was so influential to the games that Game Freak nerfed all of the other Dragons into the ground as a bid to hit the 'chomp, completely failing to lower its effectiveness, while effectively turning Dragon into a trash typing. Even after the huge blanket nerfs to Dragon type, Garchomp still manages to push the boundaries of reasonability.
>>24960902 >Garchomp was so influential to the games that Game Freak nerfed all of the other Dragons into the ground as a bid to hit the 'chomp, completely failing to lower its effectiveness, while effectively turning Dragon into a trash typing.
Haxorus, Hydreigon, Salamence, Dragonite. Even disregarding Garchomp, Dragon mons were a dominant force in the metagame. Garchomp was a reason why it got nerfed, but not the only reason by a long shot.
>>24960971 >>24960903 Jiggly is never leaving, she's one of the original 12, and has one of the most fun movesets in the game. She's the only character that does good without long range, projectiles, insane speed, or ridiculous true combos.
>>24960864 I would probably ditch Greninja for something more interesting to play as, I am willing to bet that if I hated marth then I wouldnt care about Fire Emblem as much as I do now, so I would want fun people to play as. Like Ivysaur in Project M 3.0 So long as they are fun things to play as I support it
>>24960984 >Haxorus Barely teetering on OU. The middling speed with low Sp. Def meant getting BTFO by any special attacker with more than 97 speed, like Hydreigon which has 98 speed >Hydreigon Eh, it wasn't broken, but definitely stronger than average. The reason it was used so often, with so much success, was because it had insane type coverage with insane Attack and Special Attack for no reason, not because of the Dragon typing. >Salamence It was great ever since debut, but it wasn't even good enough in its own starting meta to become overcentralized. Skarmory and Blissey took center stage in Gen 3. Gen 5 made it go over board by giving it tons of options, with the addition of Moxie and the banning of Weather Wars.
>Dragonite It was so low tier OU that it dropped to UU in Gen 3/4. Gen 5 broke Dragonite by giving it a broken ability, and then giving it Hurricane during the height of Weather Wars.
Dragon type was not the problem, it was the 'mons themselves. Garchomp, Lati@s, Haxorus, and Dnite were just about the only Dragons to use Dragon type attacks, and only one of them has less base stats than Darkrai and Deoxys, 2 uber Pokemon. Consider that. Darkrai is perma-banned to Ubers with the same stat total as Hydreigon, who is now middling in UU. Dragon type is enough to drop a Pokemon 2 tiers in the current meta.
>>24960992 Jigglypuff and the Three Bairs is fine. Her Bair's hitbox barely extends beyond the foot, and has less range than a lot of Bairs. Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, and Sonic outrange her Bair with theirs. Just about the only characters she outranges with it are Little Mac and Pikachu.
>>24961006 >Darkrai is perma-banned to Ubers with the same stat total as Hydreigon, who is now middling in UU. Dragon type is enough to drop a Pokemon 2 tiers in the current meta.
Darkrai sits higher than Hydreigon for a multitude of reasons, such as its superior speed and special attack. Their defences are also similar, except Hydreigon has some more HP but despite that Darkrai still gets a huge edge on it just from stat distribution.
Back on topic, I'm fine with these 6 representing pkmn for Smash, even though I'm not a huge fan of Lucario or Charizard.
>>24961065 Her Bair reach isnt what made it ridiculous, it was the disjointed hitbox, it made it way too safe of an option. And it only combos to rest if you are playing up against someone with bad DI or you get some stupid reads. Her uptilt, Upair, and upthrows are the most common rest setups. Her nair doesn't combo into much either.
>>24961083 It's really easy to land a Nair into Rest if you hit someone underneath a platform on Pokemon Stadium or Battle Field. It launches them just high enough at 20-50% that they land on the platforms, yet they can't react to the follow up Rest. It's a hard read on Final Destination, but still doable.
>>24961100 Yeah, I know you can DI out of it if you're caught on the ground. I'm talking about if you catch them jumping underneath the platform. The launch is so little that, unless they're Falcon or Fox, they're landing on that platform and eating a Rest.
Jigglypuff: Iconic feminine cutemon Pikachu: Iconic neutral cutemon Mewtwo: Iconic Legendary Charizard: Iconic starter Lucario: Iconic furbait Greninja: Iconic starter from the latest game
I'm okay with it. People suggesting that Jiggly should be thrown out need to remember that she is the token female of the cast at this point. The only other Pokemon that could fill the female cutemon role without overlapping with Pikachu would be Clefairy or something similar Jigglypuff is more notable and interesting because of her balloon properties and history with the early anime.
>>24961132 Ok, it doesnt work on Falcon, Fox, Falco, marth can get you before you hit him after the fair, same with sheik. congrats, you can get icees (and probably only rest 1), or Peach which you can already up air rest super easily and far more consistently. It doesnt really help you with anyone
jigglypuff as a character is horribly designed anyway, if she combos into rest she's broken but if she doesn't she's useless. Her fucking joke stopped being used in the anime 15 years ago no one but hungrybox cares about jiggs
>>24961200 >unique >movement, jumps, and neutral attacks are all the same/similar to kirby
the major differences are the special moves, of which all 4 are horrible except rest
>>24960986 Jigglypuff was added solely because the model was similar to kirby so they could get away with adding another character very quickly, in the main pokemon games jugglypuff isnt popular in the slightest, just another regular shitmon
>Charizard for starter >Pikachu for mascot >Mewtwo for legendary >Lucario for "bro" I agree with those. I'd rather swap out Jigglypuff since it stopped being relevant even in Japan and Greninja can just be swapped out for the newest marketing Pokemon every gen. I wished it was Sceptile or Blaziken though.
>>24961182 Jigglypuff could easily be Manga-swap evolving Eevee or Togepi. Hell you could even swap out that every gen. 3rd gen would have Skitty, fourth could have Pachirisu, fifth would have Munna, then 6th would have Floette.
Jigglypuff serves as a nice thing to balance all of the cool Pokemon on the roster, if nothing else. Even Pikachu is rarely played up for its cuteness these days (especially the Smash Bros incarnation).
>All these people saying that Jiggly shouldn't be there Get rekt, Jiggly is everywhere. It's one of the essential anime Mons, it's in Smash, and it was also Green's starter in the manga. And have you seen Pokemon Conquest's cover? If you haven't, go and check what is the only non-legendary in there. Hint: It's Jigglypuff Jiggly is also the most famous girly cutemon, and Pokemon Centers are packing Jiggly merch all the time because Nips love it. Face it, Puff isn't going anywhere and it's definitely one of the most essential Mons to represent the franchise.
>>24960986 I thought Ice Climbers were safe due to appearing in multiple games, anon. I think Jiggs is more safe than ICs were due to that Original 12 factor, but don't ever act like your favorite is a shoe-in to return.
>people want to remove Marth from Smash 5 and keep Lucina because "she's more modern"
>>24961982 Axew got to be a starter in PMD over Zorua, give rusefox something playable, it got such a botched implementation that you couldn't even use it in the gen they wanted it to be popular in. Though I don't think Zoroark is Smash material, Pokken would be better, there'd be an overlap with Weavile but if they did something creative with its illusion skills it could make up for it, and I don't think they give a shit about overlap anyway when they have two Fire-type starters and two Pikachus.
>>24963676 considering Jigglypuff's popularity she is never leaving, deal with it.. they removed Lucas at first and everyone went crazy until he came back as dlc, the smash team is always considering what the fans want
>SSB added Ash Pikachu, and Jigglypuff from animuh >SSBM added Pichu from animuh and Mewtwo from muhh first movie (Also, Planned for SSB original roster, more animuh) >SSBB added BaitCario from muhh animuh and Pokemon Trainer (Finally fucking videogam... oh... Red talking...) >SSB4 added Greninja (because muhh Sakurai and Animuh)............ and Second addition??????
Smash only added Pokemon references and characters from Anime :^)
>>24963746 >SSBB added BaitCario from muhh animuh and Pokemon Trainer (Finally fucking videogam... oh... Red talking...) Red doesn't even have Ash's anime voice. (they just had Squirtle's actor do his lines in Japan so they wouldn't need to hire an extra actor)
Gengar + nidorino would be good. Togepi as a meme over jigglypuff. Togekiss while not nearly as iconic would also be at least an interesting fighter unlike what they chose. More gen III gandering over genwun as at the time it was relevant, what with ORAS coming out and all. Do they fucking hate shekels? Zoroark might have been nice mechanics wise and as some sort of counterpart to lucario.
>>24960864 I think they did a pretty good job, yeah.
Beyond these ones, the choices become a bit harder to pick. The one's in Smash, for the most part (bar Jiggly and Greninja, though Greninja is getting there..) are the absolute top of the top when it comes to popularity.
There's a large handful of highly popular, relevant mon's to pick from, but none are quite as stand out. Blastoise, Venusaur, Meowth, Mew, Blaziken, and maaaybe ones like Sceptile, Garchomp, Gengar and Piplup.
Also reminder that none of the developers, not Gamefreak, not Sakurai give a shit about autistic shit like generation or type representation outside of "what's new" at the moment.
>Sing changed to final smash, works like fucking Peach's, why is that hers instead of Jigglypuff's anyway what the fuck? Make it like a mega mode where pressing a button next to someone will let her marker people's faces and hit them for a bunch of damage >Up B is now an actual recovery goddamn it I don't even care what it becomes >Side B can be swapped for Disarming Voice, works like Lucario's Force Palm, just gives a bit more range to Pound and gives us fairy stuff
>>24966907 Transformation characters were cut so people would stop complaining about Ridley, since "there's only one Metroid character" could stop being a reason. It's basically filling slots for minimal effort. Transformation was a shitty gimmick anyway when there were four of them already.
>>24966936 They only said ice climbers were cut due to technical reasons. Transformation characters were always stated to be cut to make them more individualized. It was the headline for every time someone like ZSS and Shiek were announced with their new moves.
>>24966946 No, in one of the famitsu articles, Sakurai said that transformation characters were split due to technical limitations for the 3DS, but ultimately he liked the change because he and the rest of the team felt that they had more personality as individual characters. He then went on to discuss how sometimes minor innovation comes from limitations.
Chart of "Who the fuck is that" (IMO) Pikachu - 90% almost everyone knows who it is Mewtwo - probably around 60% Charizard - 70% Jigglypuff - 20%, it's never been popular as far as I know Lucario - 40% (or less, but rising), it is one of the "newer" mons Greninja - 10% (but rising) Unless you play the game or a fan, I can assure you that Greninja is one of the "who the fucking fuck is that, is it even a pokemon?" pokemon.
>>24960864 I'm fine with it, as long as Greninja is only a "current-gen" representative and gets exchanged for a newer Pokémon on the next Smash. I still don't understand why people get so triggered with Jigglypuff.
U don't know how good it is, nig, when you successfully make the opponent trip and make a rollout, t's just a matter of waiting the fucker to stand up to off him, It's something you gotta learn, like, start chargind it as soon as you know he's gonna trip by a Nair or something else.
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