>these 6 represent the pokemon franchise Do you agree

Yeah, why not?

>>24960864
>Jigglypuff

No

>Pikachu
>Jigglypuff
Anime
>Charizard
Gen 1/2
>Lucario
Gen 3/4
>Greninja
Gen 5/6

Honestly, I think Garchomp would've been a good fit for Smash brothers, as a sort of Grappler/heavy hybrid. It would actually represent the games, as one of the most popular and powerful Pokemon that is constantly in the spotlight. Garchomp was so influential to the games that Game Freak nerfed all of the other Dragons into the ground as a bid to hit the 'chomp, completely failing to lower its effectiveness, while effectively turning Dragon into a trash typing. Even after the huge blanket nerfs to Dragon type, Garchomp still manages to push the boundaries of reasonability.

>>24960864
Ditch Jiggly, add Meowth.

>>24960864
yep

>>24960903
>Meowth
another animu poke

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>>24960864
Just realised, these 6 cover 10 types; no overlaps at all, not bad.

>>24960864
I wish they'd just do one from each generation.

>>24960914
But Meowth is at least relevant today. Meanwhile, the last time Jigglypuff appeared (or at least, the last time THE Jigglypuff appeared) was in AG.

>>24960923
I just noticed that >>24960902's suggestion of including Garchomp could be done without overlapping types, Megas aside.

>>24960902
>Garchomp was so influential to the games that Game Freak nerfed all of the other Dragons into the ground as a bid to hit the 'chomp, completely failing to lower its effectiveness, while effectively turning Dragon into a trash typing.

uh...no?

Haxorus, Hydreigon, Salamence, Dragonite. Even disregarding Garchomp, Dragon mons were a dominant force in the metagame. Garchomp was a reason why it got nerfed, but not the only reason by a long shot.

>>24960971
>>24960903
Jiggly is never leaving, she's one of the original 12, and has one of the most fun movesets in the game. She's the only character that does good without long range, projectiles, insane speed, or ridiculous true combos.

>>24960864
I would probably ditch Greninja for something more interesting to play as, I am willing to bet that if I hated marth then I wouldnt care about Fire Emblem as much as I do now, so I would want fun people to play as. Like Ivysaur in Project M 3.0
So long as they are fun things to play as I support it

>>24960986
>without long range
have you even heard of her Bair?

>>24960864
Could be worse. Jiggly might be just a meme, but it's simple enough to be memorable. We even get the furry icon plus a nice Gen 6 Rep so that it ain't COMPLETELY Gen I dominated.

It's alright overall.

>>24960903
>>24960971
Meowth is a shit 'mon that would have a shit moveset

Jiggly is at least cute and unique

>>24960864
Needs Sceptile. I'd actually love Torterra but that'll never ever happen.

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Ditch Greninja, add Chesnaught.

>>24960984
>Haxorus
Barely teetering on OU. The middling speed with low Sp. Def meant getting BTFO by any special attacker with more than 97 speed, like Hydreigon which has 98 speed
>Hydreigon
Eh, it wasn't broken, but definitely stronger than average. The reason it was used so often, with so much success, was because it had insane type coverage with insane Attack and Special Attack for no reason, not because of the Dragon typing.
>Salamence
It was great ever since debut, but it wasn't even good enough in its own starting meta to become overcentralized. Skarmory and Blissey took center stage in Gen 3. Gen 5 made it go over board by giving it tons of options, with the addition of Moxie and the banning of Weather Wars.

>Dragonite
It was so low tier OU that it dropped to UU in Gen 3/4. Gen 5 broke Dragonite by giving it a broken ability, and then giving it Hurricane during the height of Weather Wars.

Dragon type was not the problem, it was the 'mons themselves. Garchomp, Lati@s, Haxorus, and Dnite were just about the only Dragons to use Dragon type attacks, and only one of them has less base stats than Darkrai and Deoxys, 2 uber Pokemon. Consider that. Darkrai is perma-banned to Ubers with the same stat total as Hydreigon, who is now middling in UU. Dragon type is enough to drop a Pokemon 2 tiers in the current meta.

>>24961004
Literally WHO?

>>24960992
Jigglypuff and the Three Bairs is fine. Her Bair's hitbox barely extends beyond the foot, and has less range than a lot of Bairs. Ganondorf, Jigglypuff, and Sonic outrange her Bair with theirs. Just about the only characters she outranges with it are Little Mac and Pikachu.

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>>24960984
>Haxorus
>Dragonite
>ever good

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>>24961014
Sometimes I forget that not all Smash Games are exactly like the great glorious Melee.

>>24960903
pls yes
I want to use payday on samus

>>24961050
Even in Melee, Falco, Peach, and Marth outrange her Bair. Her Nair made her ridiculous, since it combo'd into so much, including Rest.

>>24961006
>Darkrai is perma-banned to Ubers with the same stat total as Hydreigon, who is now middling in UU. Dragon type is enough to drop a Pokemon 2 tiers in the current meta.

Darkrai sits higher than Hydreigon for a multitude of reasons, such as its superior speed and special attack. Their defences are also similar, except Hydreigon has some more HP but despite that Darkrai still gets a huge edge on it just from stat distribution.

Back on topic, I'm fine with these 6 representing pkmn for Smash, even though I'm not a huge fan of Lucario or Charizard.

>>24961062
Meowth can't use Pay Day because he learned to talk instead.
>not knowing Team Rocket lore

>>24961065
Her Bair reach isnt what made it ridiculous, it was the disjointed hitbox, it made it way too safe of an option. And it only combos to rest if you are playing up against someone with bad DI or you get some stupid reads. Her uptilt, Upair, and upthrows are the most common rest setups. Her nair doesn't combo into much either.

>>24961083
It's really easy to land a Nair into Rest if you hit someone underneath a platform on Pokemon Stadium or Battle Field. It launches them just high enough at 20-50% that they land on the platforms, yet they can't react to the follow up Rest. It's a hard read on Final Destination, but still doable.

>>24961093
Do you even know what DI is with that first example?

>>24961100
Yeah, I know you can DI out of it if you're caught on the ground. I'm talking about if you catch them jumping underneath the platform. The launch is so little that, unless they're Falcon or Fox, they're landing on that platform and eating a Rest.

>>24960864

Jigglypuff: Iconic feminine cutemon
Pikachu: Iconic neutral cutemon
Mewtwo: Iconic Legendary
Charizard: Iconic starter
Lucario: Iconic furbait
Greninja: Iconic starter from the latest game

I'm okay with it. People suggesting that Jiggly should be thrown out need to remember that she is the token female of the cast at this point. The only other Pokemon that could fill the female cutemon role without overlapping with Pikachu would be Clefairy or something similar Jigglypuff is more notable and interesting because of her balloon properties and history with the early anime.

get rid of jigglypuff and replace greninja with blaziken/sceptile then sure

blazikenis more popular but sceptile could replace the "anime" spot jigglypuff leaves

>>24961192
>Get rid of Jigglypuff
Fuck off.
>Thinking Blaziken or Sceptile ever have a chance at Smash now that the Gen 3 remakes are in the past.

>>24961132
Ok, it doesnt work on Falcon, Fox, Falco, marth can get you before you hit him after the fair, same with sheik. congrats, you can get icees (and probably only rest 1), or Peach which you can already up air rest super easily and far more consistently. It doesnt really help you with anyone

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>>24961192
>get rid of a unique character for another bipedal furbait mon

>>24961196
did I trigger the baby?

not saying it'll happen but saying it should

jigglypuff as a character is horribly designed anyway, if she combos into rest she's broken but if she doesn't she's useless. Her fucking joke stopped being used in the anime 15 years ago no one but hungrybox cares about jiggs

>>24961200
>unique
>movement, jumps, and neutral attacks are all the same/similar to kirby

the major differences are the special moves, of which all 4 are horrible except rest

>>24961198
It works on Falco, for whatever reason. Just about the only ones it doesn't work on consistently are
>Falcon
Very rarely sees Top 8
>Fox
Strong matchup against Jiggs regardless

It works on most of the cast, including Yoshi, Samus, Doc, and Ganondorf, and is more safe to use against Marth than a short hop Uair, since the hitbox lingers for god damned ages.

>>24960864
Get rid of Jigglypuff. Add Blaziken and we're fine.

it's okay, the odd one out is jiggs

the only reason she gets to even stick around is because of that dumb orginal 12 rule, if that wasn't a thing she would have been kicked out in brawl

i dealy i would have liked if they had one pokemon from each generations as of right now there is way to much gen1

>>24961182
who says jiggs is female, i'm ppretty sure the only pokemon in smash that have genders are pikachu, mewtwo and maybe lucario

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>>24960864
It's a good selection, but they're one man short.

>>24960864
>annoying joke character from when the Ashnime was good
>shit forced into relevancy like Lucario
No.

>muh original 12
>t-then Ness and Captain Falcon should be removed too!
Pikachu was already enough representation in the original. Shut the fuck up.

>>24960986
Jigglypuff was added solely because the model was similar to kirby so they could get away with adding another character very quickly, in the main pokemon games jugglypuff isnt popular in the slightest, just another regular shitmon

pikachu, mewtwo, charizard, lucario and greninja are the most popular pokemon so yes
but jigglypuff needs to go

>>24960923
>Jigglely gets fairy type
>She still has that weak pimp slap and not dazzle gleam or something

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>YWF Gen II has no actual rep, not even Pichu

Will Greninja still be popular in like 2-3 years when Gen VII comes? I'd Lucario would have this kind of staying power around the time of Gen IV

>Gen I
Pikachu
>Gen II
Literally no one
>Gen III
Either Mega Chicken, Sceptile or Mega Waifu
>Gen IV
Lucario
>Gen V
Failed edgy Lucario
>Gen VI
Greninja or Hawlucha

>>24961200
>bipedal furbait mon

Ebin

>>24961874
>literally no one from Gen II
Fuck you, Heracross would be perfect.

>Gardevoir
>ever
Fuck off. She does not deserve a slot in Super Smash Bros in the slighest and never will. Only Daisy or Krystal is worse and I don't even hate Krystal.

>Zoroark over Haxorus because muh mascot

>>24961982
Those mon's weren't my opinion on who's the best or my favourite Pokemon from each Gen, it's who is the face of the gen, they are the most popular ones, like it or not

>>24960902
Chomp is just popular amongst the competitive community, but kids barely care about it.

>>24962009
>Zoroark got one movie and utterly failed to become popular
>Gardevoir being iconic

>>24961598
>le Lucario is forced meme

>>24961941
Well memed, senpai

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>>24962009
>the face of the gen
>Implying Gardevoir is anything other than fapbait for lonely neckbearded furfags

>>24962042
>Lucario is forced is a meme meme

>>24961598
>anime in johto
>filler hell
>literally only BW is worse
>thinking it was good

Lmao

>>24961854
Jigglypuff's side b does great damage though.

And it weakens shields massively.

>Charizard for starter
>Pikachu for mascot
>Mewtwo for legendary
>Lucario for "bro"
I agree with those. I'd rather swap out Jigglypuff since it stopped being relevant even in Japan and Greninja can just be swapped out for the newest marketing Pokemon every gen. I wished it was Sceptile or Blaziken though.

piplup

>>24961182
Jigglypuff could easily be Manga-swap evolving Eevee or Togepi.
Hell you could even swap out that every gen. 3rd gen would have Skitty, fourth could have Pachirisu, fifth would have Munna, then 6th would have Floette.

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>mfw people are so delusional that they think Jigglypuff should go

Jigglypuff serves as a nice thing to balance all of the cool Pokemon on the roster, if nothing else. Even Pikachu is rarely played up for its cuteness these days (especially the Smash Bros incarnation).

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>All these people saying that Jiggly shouldn't be there
Get rekt, Jiggly is everywhere. It's one of the essential anime Mons, it's in Smash, and it was also Green's starter in the manga. And have you seen Pokemon Conquest's cover? If you haven't, go and check what is the only non-legendary in there. Hint: It's Jigglypuff
Jiggly is also the most famous girly cutemon, and Pokemon Centers are packing Jiggly merch all the time because Nips love it. Face it, Puff isn't going anywhere and it's definitely one of the most essential Mons to represent the franchise.

>>24962956
>jigglypuff
>anime
>hasn't been seen in the anime for over a decade

>>2496287
To be fair Jigglypuff almost wasn't in brawl

>>24960923
I noticed, it's very pleasing.

>>24963062
Meant for >>24962874

>>24961182
>Jigglypuff
>Iconic

Only if you're over the age of 18

>>24961400
She was added very late to the roster of Brawl. Not as late as Sonic was but she was added late. They considered cutting her before they decided to pad the roster a little more.

>>24960986
>Jiggly is never leaving, she's one of the original 12

kek, there's no guarantee of that

Sakurai mentioned that Jiggs, alongside Wolf and Toon Link, almost didn't make it which is why they aren't present in SSE.

>>24963204
Yeah, but she ultimately made it in. Sakurai can't let go of her.

>>24960864
We need dat Pokemon Trainer tho

>>24960864
We need dat Pokemon Trainer tho

>>24962956
>It's one of the essential anime Mons
You're thinking of Meowth.
>it was also Green's starter in the manga
Jiggly is a Wigglytuff now.

>>24960864
>no Gen 2/3/5

No, it's not awful but it could be better, I'd say Pokken is better, though it also needs a Gen 5 fighter (we all know Greninja is inevitable)

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>>24960986
I thought Ice Climbers were safe due to appearing in multiple games, anon. I think Jiggs is more safe than ICs were due to that Original 12 factor, but don't ever act like your favorite is a shoe-in to return.

>people want to remove Marth from Smash 5 and keep Lucina because "she's more modern"

>>24961982
Axew got to be a starter in PMD over Zorua, give rusefox something playable, it got such a botched implementation that you couldn't even use it in the gen they wanted it to be popular in. Though I don't think Zoroark is Smash material, Pokken would be better, there'd be an overlap with Weavile but if they did something creative with its illusion skills it could make up for it, and I don't think they give a shit about overlap anyway when they have two Fire-type starters and two Pikachus.

>>24960999
Unless they go Anime route like they did with Jigglypuff. Hell, we can go deeper and make it the Meowth's Party Meowth, that was used to demonstrate the power of the Game Cube.

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People all just have a crazy butthurt cuz jiggly is one of the best chars. just accept her and the pain might go away

>>24963062
That's just a meme rumor. Order of addition means nothing. She could have been planned from the beginning and just left out for the last part being easy to add.

>>24963204
[citation needed]

>>24963676
considering Jigglypuff's popularity she is never leaving, deal with it.. they removed Lucas at first and everyone went crazy until he came back as dlc, the smash team is always considering what the fans want

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Smash Bros added EVERY ANIMUH Pokemon...

>SSB added Ash Pikachu, and Jigglypuff from animuh
>SSBM added Pichu from animuh and Mewtwo from muhh first movie (Also, Planned for SSB original roster, more animuh)
>SSBB added BaitCario from muhh animuh and Pokemon Trainer (Finally fucking videogam... oh... Red talking...)
>SSB4 added Greninja (because muhh Sakurai and Animuh)............ and Second addition??????

Smash only added Pokemon references and characters from Anime :^)

Matenme por mi nivel de Ingles, its veri dificul

>>24963712
What? I'm asking for citation to Sakurai literally saying that Jiggs what going to get cut.

>>24963748
I don't know why I tagged you sry lol

>>24963755
Kek it's all good.

>>24963746
>oh... Red talking..
And...????
Redgy only exists in fan art, you know.

too much of the worst gen (1)

>>24963746
>SSBB added BaitCario from muhh animuh and Pokemon Trainer (Finally fucking videogam... oh... Red talking...)
Red doesn't even have Ash's anime voice. (they just had Squirtle's actor do his lines in Japan so they wouldn't need to hire an extra actor)

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>>24963746
>Finally fucking videogam... oh... Red talking...

While they are not Pokemon I care about all that much, I would say they are pretty representative of the whole series. I struggle to think of something more fitting.

>>24960923
11 if you count M-Char X

>pikachu
>lucario
obligatory

>charizard
>mewtwo
Shit pandering

>greninja
shit, could be worse

>jigglypuff
meme

Gengar + nidorino would be good.
Togepi as a meme over jigglypuff. Togekiss while not nearly as iconic would also be at least an interesting fighter unlike what they chose.
More gen III gandering over genwun as at the time it was relevant, what with ORAS coming out and all. Do they fucking hate shekels?
Zoroark might have been nice mechanics wise and as some sort of counterpart to lucario.

>>24960864
>Jigglypuff
>no Blaziken

It's piss poor representation.

>>24961003
Sadly I feel like if there was going to be a Gen 3 rep, it would be Blaziken since it's the most popular. I would rather have Sceptile, though.

>>24964869
You already got in Pokken you entitled fuck. You're worse than "Sceptile just got in Pokken so now I DEMAND he be in Smash!" fags.

>>24962208
I was talking about Indigo, faggot. Gen I is arguably the weakest in the series as for as games go while it's the only time the show was good.

Hell, Indigo and its merchandise is probably the only thing that makes people remember the Gen I era so fondly. I can vouch for that.

>>24964438
how is lucario not shit pandering

>>24960864
I think they did a pretty good job, yeah.

Beyond these ones, the choices become a bit harder to pick. The one's in Smash, for the most part (bar Jiggly and Greninja, though Greninja is getting there..) are the absolute top of the top when it comes to popularity.

There's a large handful of highly popular, relevant mon's to pick from, but none are quite as stand out. Blastoise, Venusaur, Meowth, Mew, Blaziken, and maaaybe ones like Sceptile, Garchomp, Gengar and Piplup.

Also reminder that none of the developers, not Gamefreak, not Sakurai give a shit about autistic shit like generation or type representation outside of "what's new" at the moment.

>>24962762
This. If anything should be replaced, it's rollout.

>>24966855
because hes not as pandered as much as this board thinks it is
its just you've fallen into a lucario hate hive mind

other either like it or just really dont care

>>24963351
Ice Climbers were cut for technical reasons. If we hadn't gotten Smash 3ds, we would still have IC, not to mention all the transforming characters.

>>24966907
He is right, though, just being part of the original 12 doesnt promise a slot for them.

Sakurai recently revealed that Jigglypuff only barely made it into Brawl, and pretty much ONLY because she uses a lot of architecture from Kirby.

>>24966894
She should really just get a rework.

>Sing changed to final smash, works like fucking Peach's, why is that hers instead of Jigglypuff's anyway what the fuck? Make it like a mega mode where pressing a button next to someone will let her marker people's faces and hit them for a bunch of damage
>Up B is now an actual recovery goddamn it I don't even care what it becomes
>Side B can be swapped for Disarming Voice, works like Lucario's Force Palm, just gives a bit more range to Pound and gives us fairy stuff

>>24966907
Transformation characters were cut so people would stop complaining about Ridley, since "there's only one Metroid character" could stop being a reason. It's basically filling slots for minimal effort. Transformation was a shitty gimmick anyway when there were four of them already.

>>24966930
Youre just making shit up. They straight up said they were cut due to technical reasons, not because of your head-canon "hurr ridley" shit.

>>24966936
They only said ice climbers were cut due to technical reasons. Transformation characters were always stated to be cut to make them more individualized. It was the headline for every time someone like ZSS and Shiek were announced with their new moves.

>>24966946
No, in one of the famitsu articles, Sakurai said that transformation characters were split due to technical limitations for the 3DS, but ultimately he liked the change because he and the rest of the team felt that they had more personality as individual characters. He then went on to discuss how sometimes minor innovation comes from limitations.

>>24966955
Source on "one of the famitsu articles"? That sounds like one of those unprovable things that people say all the time, like "jigglypuff is popular in japan" or "masuda said in an interview"

>>24964319
>Game Red
>edgy

Kill yourself.

>>24961012
Greninja is a literally who

>>24960864
>th-there in smash so they must be the most iconic
By that logic, Corrin, Roy, and Dark Pit must be very iconic video game characters.

>>24967041
But they ARE iconic among their respective series :^)

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>>24967009

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>>24966895
it sounds to me like you just like Lucario and don't mind getting pandered to

>>24967009
Both of them are, now shut up

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>>24960864
Remove either Greninja, Lucario or Charizard and add a quadruped Pokémon or something that isn't bipedal. Other than that, the selection isn't too bad.

>>24960864
>>24960864
Nah, I think only Pikachu, Mewtwo, and Charizard are.

Chart of "Who the fuck is that" (IMO)
Pikachu - 90% almost everyone knows who it is
Mewtwo - probably around 60%
Charizard - 70%
Jigglypuff - 20%, it's never been popular as far as I know
Lucario - 40% (or less, but rising), it is one of the "newer" mons
Greninja - 10% (but rising) Unless you play the game or a fan, I can assure you that Greninja is one of the "who the fucking fuck is that, is it even a pokemon?" pokemon.

>>24966930
Jigglypuff has a recovery Up+B as a custom move in Smash 4. And why does she even need it? She has hands down one of the best recoveries in the game even without an Up+B.

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>>24967301
>add a quadruped Pokémon

Or just bring back the one that was cut.

>>24960864
Studies show snorlax to be the most iconic beside pikachu

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>>24960923
>Lucario = Fighting/Steel
>Mega Mewtwo X = Psychic/Fighting
its ruined

>>24960864
I'm fine with it, as long as Greninja is only a "current-gen" representative and gets exchanged for a newer Pokémon on the next Smash.
I still don't understand why people get so triggered with Jigglypuff.

>>24960864
>Charizard
Sure.
>Pikachu
Why the fuck not? Seems legit imo
>Jigglypuff
Swap this shit out for Blaziken.
>Mewtwo
Sure.
>Lucario
Why the fuck not?
>Greninja
Definitely why the fuck not?

>>24967905
Smash has Mega-Mewtwo-Y, Pokken is the one with X.

>>24961182
>>24963084
It's iconic nostalgiamon. There's Greninja from the latest game so there has to be some mon that only nostalgiafags remember.

>>24961855
Celebi you Nugget

>>24961855
And Ttar

Drop Pikaslut

>charizard
of course
>pikachu
okay
>mewtwo
alright i guess
>jigglypuff
this guy was just included because he was similar to kirby
>lucario
sure
>greninja
not really

>>24966894

U don't know how good it is, nig, when you successfully make the opponent trip and make a rollout, t's just a matter of waiting the fucker to stand up to off him, It's something you gotta learn, like, start chargind it as soon as you know he's gonna trip by a Nair or something else.

>inb4youcantechtaht

Well, shit happens, humans can fail sometimes.

I don't like the gay generations (from 3 gen to up on)

>>24968483

>Similar to kirby

In what regard? Hitboxes? I bet making a sphere even in N64 days wasn't even hard, the moves and animations are entirely different unlike Mario and Luigi in that game.

>>24968483
>lucario
>sure

Furfag edgelord

>>24968531
i'm going by influence / popularity, not quality