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I really dislike it when people praise Gen...
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I really dislike it when people praise Gen 2 and call it one of the best generations of Pokémon while proceeding to bash the newer generations. In my opinion, Gen 2 is the weakest generation for a variety of reasons.
1. All three of the Johto starters are incredibly bland, uninspired and generic. Meganium is arguably one of the worst starters in the series. Venusaur does a much better job with the "Flower Dinosaur" theme. Feraligatr... is just a generic blue crocodile. Blastoise has cannons. Swampert is a hybrid of multiple creatures with a fairly unique typing. Empoleon builds upon the emperor penguin concept. Samurott is a dual-wielding otter swordsman. Greninja is a ninja frog with the ability to adapt. But what does Feraligatr have? All of its Pokedex entries does describe things that ordinary crocodiles would do. And Typhlosion, what is it even supposed to be? It just looks like a weasel and that's it. Oh, it can shoot fire out of its body... like any other Fire-type starter! Most of the Pokémon of Gen 2 are forgettable and weak in general. Sunflora, Qwilfish, Stantler, Delibird, Ledian, Ariados, Unown and the excessive amount of baby Pokémon all reek of mediocrity. Gen 2 was also the only generation to not introduce any new fossil Pokémon.
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>>24952741
2. The region is boring. Compare Johto to Hoenn and you can see that Hoenn has an amazing variety of environments: Mountains, forests, jungles, water routes, volcanoes, islands, beaches... there's so much! Johto is a lot less diverse in this regard.
3. Johto fails to stand out on its own. A lot of Gen 2's popularity comes from the fact that you can revisit Kanto after beating the game. If it wasn't for this, the games would be left with one bland region and nothing else. Gen 2 was the only generation to not have its own villains. They just lazily reused Team Rocket. Most of the gym leaders and other trainers had very little personality, and many of them just used Gen 1 Pokémon. Why didn't Morty have Misdreavus? Why didn't Falkner have Murkrow or Noctowl? Why did Lance have three Dragonites?
In short, Gen 2 just feels like an extension of Gen 1. It doesn't feel unique at all like Hoenn, Sinnoh, Unova or Kalos. Is nostalgia the only reason why many people consider G/S/C amazing while saying things like, "Game Freak is running out of ideas?" I just don't get it. They were still fun games on their own, but they feel like the weakest entries into the series in my opinion. If there's one thing I like about Gen 2 though, it would have to be how they removed a lot of the things that made Gen 1 a broken mess such as nerfing the Psychic type and the Special stat split.
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>>24952741
>And Typhlosion, what is it even supposed to be?
Literally a yellow human.
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>>24952741
A lot of people like it for nostalgia value and because they're hipsters and don't want to associate with gen1rs
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>>24952741
>tldr tgdc (too gay; don't care)
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>>24952741
>>24952747

At least you tried, I guess.
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>>24952747
>Gen 2 just feels like an extension of Gen 1.
You'd be right with that.

a lot of GF's developers at the time admitted that the first generation of pokemon had to be rushed at the end, that about 190 pokemon where supposedly planned for Gen 1, and that the game boy didn't quite have the hardware to present the game they wanted to make.

Gen 2 was described by a lot of the developers as the game pokemon was meant to be at its initial release. with the mechanics and pokemon they wanted to show and the texture and color to show it off. If you take that into account that Gen 2 really was supposed to be what the developers wanted Gen 1 to look like, it makes more sense with all the decisions made in making Gen 2, with no removed mechanics or any major ret-cons, but rather small tweaks that improved nearly everything Gen 1 either lacked or wasn't quite fully realized, making Gold and Silver feel like a more complete game compared to Red and Green.
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>>24952824
This, and don't forget that Gen 2 was supposed to be the end of Pokemon
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>>24952741
>>24952747
>starters are bland
Cyndaquil is constantly voted favorite starter
>every gen needs fossil pokemon
>memorable pokemon are forgettable and mediocre
Based Scizor, Steelix, Houndoom, Kingdra, Tyranitar, Sneasel, Donphan, Ledian, Pilloswine, Jumpluff, Delibird, Porygon 2, Girafarig, Stantler, Ariados, Noctowl, Ampharos, Blissey, Politoed
>Hoenn has mountains, forests, jungles, water, volcanoes, islands, and beaches
Hoenn does not have a jungle, just forests
Johto has mountains, forests, caves, water, islands, and beaches as well
>no new villians
>doesn't stand out
Better than absurd world domination plots
Gen 2 was a continuation of gen 1, so, yes there are lots of elements from gen 1 in the game specifically original pokemon.
Gen 2 is what they wanted gen 1 to be. It has care in it.
Your assessment of gen 2 is pathetic.
Hoennbabies are becoming worse than Unovabortions.
I responded to your bait.
So 1/10 rate.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAuzhJ0H6BE

Gen 2 nowadays seems like very bare-bones version of everything we have now, but it was the one that introduced some of the biggest things we have now, such as breeding and hold items.

but at the end of the day, Gen 2 did a lot more good than bad for the pokemon franchise as a whole.

the youtube channel for the video also did a pros and cons for every generation, it's pretty quality and worth a watch.
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>>24952824
That's exactly why I like Gen 2 so much. It felt like the perfect followup to Gen 1.
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>>24952824
Exactly this, not to mention how mind blowing it was at the time that you could visit the entire region of RBY minus minor things that are overshadowed by the sheer force of nostalgia AND battle the protagonist from the first game. At the time it was such a huge improvement over Gen 1 even though in retrospect it was more like "RBY Deluxe" than its own region compared to later games.

Obviously in retrospect there's a lot of problems in terms of region design but you also have to look at how much of a jump GSC was compared to RBY in presentation, which has never been repeated with any other generation progression since (although, again, the actual game itself is arguably not the best).
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Generation 1 was pokemon at its peak.

The beginning of Generation 2 was still during pokemons peak as well. So on top of it being when pokemon was at its best you also had new pokemon, 16 gyms(combining the generations). It was just fantastic.
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>>24952917
Cyndaquil is pretty bland though.
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>>24952917
And Undertale was voted best game of all time.

The fact that you list off shit that wouldn't be memorable if they weren't so terrible and forgettable like Stantler and Jumpluff really builds your case here. And no, things like politoed and sneasel were shitmons at the time.

I'm not OP, so I won't justify his mistake (though one could maybe argue Fortree City was in a jungle) but if all Johto has is caves/mountains/water/etc, literally things every other region has except they usually have more, then that's bland as shit.

Oh yes. Because stopping a Slowpoke tail business by beating up two guys is now really interesting because some guys later in the series wanted to rule the world. See, I can make broad statements too, bud, it ain't hard.

A lot of care was sure put into making a completely empty Kanto, a terrible level curve, random and forgettable characters like Eusine, terrible pacing between gyms, stupid fetch quests (MUH AMPHAROS), yes sir.

>everything that doesn't agree with me is bait
You probably don't talk too much in real life.
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>>24952917
hoenn does have a jungle you dense mother fucker
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>>24952774
>spewing yellow human maymay unironically

>>24952917
>spewing Unovabortion unironically

Both of you kill yourselves.
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>>24952741
>>24952747
This has to be bait or an underage faggot. But anyway, to really appreciate Gen 2 you need to see the whole picture and compare mechanics and game play as well. Till this day Gen 2 has the most and best mechanics implemented out of all generations. Say whatever you want about Johto but the fact you can visit Kanto as post-game is something great that no other gen has done. Gen 2 had cool pokémon too.
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>>24955748
Every generation has cool pokemon. Johto has primarily weak shitmons in its introduced mons, and while breeding and hold items are significant features, I'd argue the Physical Special split is as significant as those additions.

Generation 2 is good. Johto as a region is the weakest region by far. While Kalos doesn't have as many new pokemon, they are generally of high quality and and reasonably useful.
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>>24952741
>Samurott is a dual-wielding otter swordsman

Took you seriously until you said this as a good thing
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>>24955826
You should probably review scenes with it in the anime. Those things on its arms double as blade weapons.
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>>24952906

Only half-right.
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>>24955826
That image is the equivalent of a child trying to ignore something by covering his ears and eyes and screaming.
It's clearly stated in-game Samurott pulls weapons out of its armor, and demonstrated in every media source.
How delusional can one be, to not only deny a central aspect of a pokemon design, but to think that it was necessary to open up Paint and try to prove his headcanon right to everyone else.
It's insufferable as much as it is hilarious.
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>>24955881
He's suggesting that as a fix to Samurott's flawed design, not a representation of how it actually works.
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>>24955928
>Samurott should no longer be able wield weapons anymore
Yes, let just take one giant step backwards in making Samurott even less like its predecessors even more.
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>>24955667
Bulbapedia confirms that Hoenn has a jungle outside of Lilycove
in the anime.
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>>24955421
>>>24952917 (You)
>And Undertale was voted best game of all time.
It works better to make specific comments to specific statements.
>The fact that you list off shit that wouldn't be memorable if they weren't so terrible and forgettable like Stantler and Jumpluff really builds your case here. And no, things like politoed and sneasel were shitmons at the time.
Jumpluff and Stantler are great. Politoed and Sneasel are better than great now.
>I'm not OP, so I won't justify his mistake (though one could maybe argue Fortree City was in a jungle) but if all Johto has is caves/mountains/water/etc, literally things every other region has except they usually have more, then that's bland as shit.
Johto has Ice Path. Johto has the largest and most explorable lake. Johto has mysterious ruins. Johto has Bellsprout Tower, the Burned Tower and Tin Tower, and the only good Lighthouse.
>Oh yes. Because stopping a Slowpoke tail business by beating up two guys is now really interesting because some guys later in the series wanted to rule the world. See, I can make broad statements too, bud, it ain't hard.
Stopping a group trying to force evolutions by teaming up with The Champion, Lance and his badass dragons is interesting. It's aftermath and continuation.
>A lot of care was sure put into making a completely empty Kanto, a terrible level curve, random and forgettable characters like Eusine, terrible pacing between gyms, stupid fetch quests (MUH AMPHAROS), yes sir.
Leveling is fine. It's not like in BW when you best the E4 and suddenly everything is 10 levels higher than you.
>>everything that doesn't agree with me is bait
This thread is clearly bait.
>You probably don't talk too much in real life.
No, sorry. Your mom gets straight to business; no talking, no foreplay, so I don't talk much.
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>>24952741
>>24952747
>simple starters is a bad thing
All three starters, in their typing and design, communicate a theme of purity. This plays well with the traditional-feeling Johto region. I like how stripped-down they are; Typhlosion is among my favorite starters.
>Johto is a bad region
I can't even. Johto is full of different places to explore in any order you like; the whole region opens up when you hit Mahogany. Plus the whole region has a very traditional, sleepy feeling to it. Compare to linear Unova and Kalos, which feel more like guided tours than well-defined regions to explore.
>In short, Gen 2 just feels like an extension of Gen 1.
That's because it is. GSC were the first sequels to RBY, and as such had to forge new ground and define what "Pokemon sequel" meant. I don't count that against GSC, particularly because I like how the rarity of "new" Pokemon makes exploring the region more worthwhile. If you disagree, that's fine.
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>>24956838
Preach it
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>>24956315
Okay. Should I spell it out for you? Polls usually suffer from the fact that most responses are voluntary, or people who participate because they feel strongly on an issue. You're talking out of your ass anyways since I see no actual polls.

>johto has an ice area
Gee that's not in any of the games
>johto has an 'explorable' lake
Kek
>johto has ancient ruins and towers
Also in literally none of the other games
>johto has a bland as fuck lighthouse with a bunch of annoying pushover trainers
Well, you got that right.

It would be actually interesting if said team did not have the same zubats and koffings, and said champion and badass dragon had a personality beyond "I am le epic caped man".

I like how leveling was the only thing addressed here. And yes, pryce, jasmine, and Chuck all having the same levels with almost no opportunity to grind after Clair and being stuck in the 50s for Red and most of Mango is evidence of a fantastic curve.

Maybe for Johtoddlers like yourself.

Ah yes, this is where I say 'my mom is ded lulz' and we upboat like on le reddit? XD
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>>24957528
>mango
Fuck you phone.
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>>24952917
Agree with everything you have said
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>>24957536
Hating Mango
>>24957528
>>johto has an ice area
>>johto has an 'explorable' lake
>>johto has ancient ruins and towers
The point is that Johto has more than just forests and mountains. It has memorable towns and areas. Hoenn doesn't have the only volcanoes, but it has memorable volcanoes.
>johto has a bland as fuck lighthouse with a bunch of annoying pushover trainers
You can actually do things there unlike DPPt's lighthouse.
>It would be actually interesting if said team did not have the same zubats and koffings, and said champion and badass dragon had a personality beyond "I am le epic caped man".
The champions typically lack personality. They are stoic and mysterious. Stephen likes rare rocks, Cynthia has a potion to help the Psyduck, but doesn't give it to them and she has a grandmother, Adler is sad about something and had you fight kindergarten kids, and Diantha is famous.
>I like how leveling was the only thing addressed here. And yes, pryce, jasmine, and Chuck all having the same levels with almost no opportunity to grind after Clair and being stuck in the 50s for Red and most of Mango is evidence of a fantastic curve.
I never had to grind for Kanto.
>Maybe for Johtoddlers like yourself.
I'm not a Johtoddler. If anything I'm closer to a genwunner.
>Ah yes, this is where I say 'my mom is ded lulz' and we upboat like on le reddit? XD
You mom died in an upboat? I'm sorry, anon. I didn't mean to disrespect her.
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I was 12 when Gold/Silver came out.I played Red on release and lived through the time when Pokemon was HUGE. I think people who weren't around really have no idea what it was like,nothing since has compared in my opinion.

Having played from the beginning,Gold/Silver and Crystal will always be my favourite games for a number of reasons

*The comfiness of the region
*The unwatered down Japanese-ness of Johto with its buildings and lore (same reason I like the early seasons of the anime before it was toned down)
*The feeling of exploring Mount Silver and Whirl Islands for the first time
*The realisation you are going back to Kanto
*The fight with Red
*Feraligatr and Typhlosion (Alligator and Honey Badger )
*Introduction of breeding among other features

Its got its faults sure,but at the time it was groundbreaking. As for the person just saying its all forests and caves,well the region of Japan its based on isn't all hot and full of beaches like the one Hoenn is based off.
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>>24957649
This guy gets it
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>>24957641
And my point is that most if not all other regions in the main series trump Johto in terms of content and towns, and for the somewhat memorable stuff in Johto, it's still overshadowed by any other game.

And, as I said, DP didn't make you mow down a group of annoying and random trainers. Nothing is better than stupidity.

Just because other champions are bad doesn't mean Lance is acceptable.

By 'after Clair' I meant the stretch between Dragons Den and the League, with all your Pokemon still in the low 40s because the game doesn't understand how curving works.

Well, then you're even worse.

Haha XD u really got me there anon! Sick joke, friend!
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>>24957894
>>>24957641 (You)
>And my point is that most if not all other regions in the main series trump Johto in terms of content and towns, and for the somewhat memorable stuff in Johto, it's still overshadowed by any other game.
I think that gen 2 towns are better than Mauville and Lavaridge and Lillycove.
>And, as I said, DP didn't make you mow down a group of annoying and random trainers. Nothing is better than stupidity.
That's essentially what pokemon games are: mowing down stupid, random trainers.
>Just because other champions are bad doesn't mean Lance is acceptable.
It was still cool to fight with the champion to defeat the baddies. You had a mission. It was important.
>By 'after Clair' I meant the stretch between Dragons Den and the League, with all your Pokemon still in the low 40s because the game doesn't understand how curving works.
I don't recall needing to be higher than mid 40s to beat Johto E4. I'm about to replay Gold, so I'll soon be corrected or confirmed.
>Well, then you're even worse.
Maybe. But I am what I am. You are what you are. Gold and silver were the most excited I ever was to play a pokemon game because I loved Red, Blue, and Yellow. And I loved HGSS because it was a beautiful revision.
>Haha XD u really got me there anon! Sick joke, friend!
Mango is life. I miss Chris Kattan. He was on SNL while I was just starting my genwun games.
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>>24958152
Ive been replaying Crystal on my 3DS and have just beaten the elite 4 using a level 55 team of Feraligatr,Espeon,Tyranitar,Houndoom,Dragonite,Ampharos-was not hard at all.

I just love the games atmosphere.The only games I lost interest with were Gen 4,and I cannot stand the starters
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>>24955667
Hoenn does have jungle routes near Fortree City.
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>>24952741
I'd love if someone made a Gen 3 style rom hack with a standalone Johto region.
>no access to Kanto
>expand north Johto to include more areas
>add more pokemon to the region
>update the Gym Leader teams
>a more linear way of battling Gym Leaders so that we don't have Chuck/Jasmine/Pryce all on the same levels
>better level scaling

It'd be awesome
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