Manectric moved from UU to RU
Ampharos moved from RU to NU
Banette moved from NU to PU
Venusaur moved from UU to RU
Diancie moved from UU to RU
Gyarados moved from OU to UU
Abomasnow moved from RU to NU
Pelipper moved from PU to NU
Charizard moved from UU to RU
why are some mons more used in OU but are used less in the tier they belong to?
Im so fucking glad the slow fucks finally allowed megaless forms to drop to certain tiers. That being said
>Charizard still not NU
Still waiting to build sticky web charizard eggxecutor core
it probably has to do with what pokemon can counter what in that tier. theres probably more counters for machamp in uu then there are in ou. its like bringing in a bronzong into ubers just to check xerneas. this is just an example.
>we're only waiting for it to be useful again
So you're just going to disregard its two (2) Megas?
>Charizard needed TWO Megas just to be OU
Counter different things. Quagsire hardwalls several OU threats but not many UU or RU threats.
And it'll keep going to NU maybe even PU.
literally never, because of retards like you that constantly bitch and whine about it.
Megas are now counted as separate pokemon. Char-Y in UU
They said they weren't going to Quickban it on the forums, so expect it around for a while.
Honestly I feel like non-Mega Blaziken could be suspected at this point, there are so many things now that resist its Dual STAB and can even take coverage moves at +2 or outspeed and OHKO (Altaria, Slowbro, Azumarill, Talonflame)
Welcome to my world. It's all downhill from here, baby.
You guys realize this is base Charizard, no mega, right?
Mega Charizard is still a big threat. And in fact is annoying as fuck because you have to guess Y or X. And there are two variants of X-Zard, with the bulky one countering the counters for the DD one.
>UU cant handle Crawdaunt
>Gyarados in UU
Oh thats going to last 5 minutes
>Captcha is Waterfalls
gyarados is probably gonna move up to BL sooner or later. the thing was already really fucking good without its mega in OU
>diancie was in uu
>charizard was in uu
>manectric was in uu
still a better metagame than vgc
You literally named the only pokemon that can check Blaziken in OU. When will you fuck faces realize that a Pokemon having a couple shaky checks means nothing when the cost to sweep with Blaziken is almost non existent. Blaziken had checks when it got banned, nothing has fucking changed. The biggest loss to Blaziken was the baton pass nerf as that had no counters.
The only reason Serperior is anywhere outside of PU is because of "le smugleaf xD" fags spamming usage for the meme HA Leaf Storm set. It's still not actually a good Pokemon, because it's a mono-Grass type with a shitty movepool and mediocre offenses.
All Serperior has to do is come in on one of those 4x weak to grass bulky water shitters or a pokemon weakened enough that will die to STAB Leaf Storm(which is a lot) and then there's almost no stopping it. Whatever you switch out to will still get hit and boost its attack unless it has Sap Sipper, then I hope you're bulky enough to survive the Dragon Pulse/HP Fire/Ground.
Yes, Serperior isn't perfect. Talonflame destroys it. But "it's not actually a good pokemon?" Seriously? It boosts for free and after 2 boosts it's an absolute monster.
>i-it's legitimately a good mom that just requires support!
>a-after 2 boosts it's an absolute monster!
Look at it this way: Serperior has Nasty Plot with a 130 BP Grass move tacked on. Almost any shitmon would be broken with that sort of bullshit.
Serperior isn't good in the "It strategically fits on lots of teams and can fulfill many roles" way Heatran, Landorus-T, and Scizor are good. Serperior is good in a "Repeatedly do broken things until my opponent is overwhelmed" good.
How does it even make sense to tier Megas and base forms differently? You can't even use Megas without their base forms.
I assume they determine usage for non-Megas by just checking they aren't holding a Mega Stone, right? Gyarados in particular is a fantastic example of a Pokemon that you might never actually Mega evolve in a match - despite giving it its Mega Stone - just because its different abilities and typing between forms serve very different purposes (ie. you might keep Gyara just for Intimidate's utility).
>How does it even make sense to tier Megas and base forms differently?
>because its different abilities and typing between forms serve very different purposes
That's why, though obviously they aren't going to let shit Megas like Latios drop below the base form in tiers. It's just so Pokemon that don't belong in OU and UU aren't stuck there soley because they have a good mega.
Look at Mawile. Shit is like PU/NU. Then the Mega jumps it to Ubers.
Do you honestly believe faggots should not be allowed to use Mawile ANYWHERE just because it's got Mega Mawile? Same goes for Lucario. Lucario always had this stupid movepool but it's not that strong anymore. It MIGHT be able to hang in OU, as a situational revenge killer and sweeper, but not really. Do you think it shouldn't be usable anywhere because of Mega Lucario?
Classifying Megas as separate from the base form makes complete sense. It's how it should have been from the start.
>Gyarados in particular is a fantastic example
if Gyarados is Life Orb'd, you dont need to save your bulky fighting type and can reliably Stone Edge it/bring in Rotom-W
Mega gyarados, even if it never evolves, has the potential and the mindgames to change forms just as any other Pokemon that changes forms, except Megas can change in battle unlike most* form changers.
I feel like I have some weird opinons on what probably should and shouldnt be in ou. I honestly think that Manaphy should move back up to Ubers. It still can set up pretty easily if you go with a HP Def set, and its calm mind set just ends the game if it can get to cm in.
I also think that Deoxy D should be in OU, its just not very bulky and it has a shit typing. I mean its a complete joke in Ubers, and I didnt think it was very good still when it was suspected.
>Charizard moved from UU to RU
So, once he reaches NU again, how useful will he be in there?
You are right as well, most shit won't be "useful" now with the power creepers joining.
It looks kinda pathetic on paper. But the ability to Defog and to Roost
You have to bear in mind that Roost disables the Flying type and its weaknesses. So only STAB and/or special electric moves are sure to bring Pelipper down. And remember it is PU we are talking about.
With Scald and/or Hurricane, it has STABs with a 30% chance to cripple your digimon.
>Do you honestly believe faggots should not be allowed to use Mawile ANYWHERE just because it's got Mega Mawile?
Kind of, yes. Because that's really not that different from saying that Greninja is only broken with Life Orb, so let's just allow non-Life Orb Greninja in OU without it. inb4 accusation of "slippery slope", it's actually not really much of a slope at all considering all you're doing with Mawile is banning a broken Pokemon/item combination (although to be fair there is the slight difference that Mawilite only works on Mawile).
I just think it's kind of ridiculous that a Pokemon that shows up in every OU match ever could also be usable in a lower tier. It kind of goes against the whole "no overcomplicated rules" thing that Smogn used to have, although I guess that's kind of gone out the window with all the other complex bans the past few Generations.
And while Mawile may be a great example of a Pokemon with a clear-cut distinction between broken/not-broken between its forms, its not much of a counter to my Gyarados example, where you might have a Gyarados holding a Gyaradosite in your party, but still never Mega Evolve it just because Gyarados itself is pretty good and it's Earthquake immunity/Intimidate are putting in my work in that particular match than anything Mega Gyarados could offer. Would you class that match as counting for Gyarados usage, or Mega Gyarados usage? It's a blurry line and I just think it's unnecessary. Are any tiers actually notably improved by bringing Pokemon down? From what I recall, Charizard wasn't exactly a world-beater even down in RU.
> Would you class that match as counting for Gyarados usage, or Mega Gyarados usage?
If it is wearing the Mega Stone (and profiting from the Trick and pseudo Knock Off immunity), it's classified as Mega usage.
This isn't rocket science.
> Charizard wasn't exactly a world-beater even down in RU
Lower tiers are there so shitmons get the chance to shine.
Why shouldn't I be allowed to use my bros in PU when that's where they belong?
So it's classified as Mega usage even though you never used the Mega? What if my opponent didn't have Trick or Knock Off? My Gyarados was basically just itemless, then. Surely you can see why it's not as blatantly simply as you're making out.
>Lower tiers are there so shitmons get the chance to shine.
How is Mawile "not shining" by being Uber worthy? Seems pedantic to say that using your bros in OU somehow "doesn't count" if you're Mega evolving them.
I dont get the Charizard bashing. I happens to have a 4 times SR weakness. Thats just bad luck.
Rock resistance becoming so important is really arbitrary. Imagine SR having Ground typing.
Would you laugh about Heatran?
> What if my opponent didn't have [X]
What if you have some defensive thing with Leftovers that never took a hit?
Clearly the Lefites don't count
What if you brought [Y] but never get the chance to switch it in because your opponent stroked before you got the chance.
Clearly the match shouldn't count for [Y]'s usage because it never did anything at all.
That's not how it works, if you bring shit to a match, it counts as usage.
If you refrain from actually using it is irrelevant.
> How is Mawile "not shining"
Mawile isn't uber worthy, the cancerous Mega is.
a meme in smogon, seriously
it's a fucking shitmon
>Gyara in UU
probably mega is OU, but fuck UU is honestly a gold mine right now.
>Conk isn't UU
shame, it doesn't make it anymore in OU as he did, man, it used amazing pre ORAS and still okaish
Honestly, dropping to UU will just make it go into BL then. SpecSylveon hitting so fucking hard it's not even funny.
Even as a cleric it's having a niche by being stronger and S.Def bulkier than Clefable.
I fucking love that cutemon
Sylveon and other cutemons should be placed in a new tier called CU.
Its only good because of the hax ability push it got. Contrary is a fitting name for it, as it made what would be trash tier a top tier Digimon.
Otherwise, its utterly featureless, worse than Meganium.
Scizor would be pretty average with out technician
Azumarill be shit with out Huge power
Sylveon be shit with out pixilate
clefable be shit if it didn't have its 2 great abities
Nidos be shit with out Sheer force
let the snake have its fun
It goes on a stall team that's really easy to ladder with. It counter Volt-Turn pretty well too, and Volt-Turn is common mid and low ladder, and is usually annoying to play against.
>literally one whole Gen
Meanwhile I remember when Gyara was that way
>has to use Dragon for physical attacks
>Only dragon move is Dragon Rage
>70BP hidden Power Flying gyarados is the only viable Gyarados
>Scizor would be pretty average with out technician
U-Turn isnt even boosted by Tech, Scizor was still really good in Gen 3 because its a fucking Steel type thats not weak to Ground. Iron Head and Bullet Punch are strong as shit even without Tech too.
>Azumarill be shit with out Huge power
Except AssVest SapSipper is still usable, as is Sitrus Drum.
>+6 252+ Atk Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 8 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 362-427 (112 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
>252 SpA Life Orb Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Azumarill: 55-66 (15.1 - 18.1%) -- possible 6HKO
>Sylveon be shit with out pixilate
Arguable, but its still a good wishpasser. Not as great as Vaporeon, admittedly. Sylveon would be shit without Hyper Voice.
>clefable be shit if it didn't have its 2 great abilities
Not really. Unaware Clefable can handle opponents that dont rely on boosts pretty handily, the only real difference would be that Togekiss would be more valuable as Clefable wouldn't completely outclass it and so it might still be relevant.
>Nidos be shit with out Sheer force
I mean if they were stuck with Rivalry, yeah. If they had any useful ability, not really. Nidoking is still fast with a good attack stat and useful STAB + strong moves to use with it. The only issue is the lack of boosting.
The funny thing is, Unaware Clefable shits on Serperior
>+2 116 SpA Clefable Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Serperior: 290-342 (99.6 - 117.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
>252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. +2 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable: 105-125 (26.7 - 31.8%) -- 27.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Serperior cant do squat to it.
>252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 218-260 (63.9 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 296-351 (86.8 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
>leaf storm is shitty
How is Leaf Storm bad when its stronger than Hydro Pump or Thunder and has 100% acc?
>Speaking of Shitperior, why isn't it down in PU where it belongs?
because it doesn't belong in PU. There's a reason people keep using it. Stop being salty just because you were wrong about Contrary Serperior being shit.
Bug's the worst offensive type, senpai. Fucking everything resists Bug. Poison is in second place, since it's only good against Fairies and grass and lots of stuff resists or is immune. I'd even say Psychic is worse than Grass offensively too, since Fairy is usually superior to Psychic attacks anyway. Grass isn't even in the top 3 for Worst Offensive Types.
>it's only good because of the traits that make it good
>people reply to low effort shitposts like these
Don't post advertising on /vp/
Smogon is a fanfic meta simulator, not official or even close to it.
Literally who cares.
You already have the fanmade forums to discuss these fanfic changes.
Replying to this one because they put a lot of effort into this shitpost.
But it isn't Gen 3. Scizor would be pretty underwhelming without Technician, it's not nearly as threatening without strong priority, you might see Scarf Scizor or some weird bulky Defog variant (70/100/80 isn't spectacular but it's alright).
If you're gonna suggest Sap Sipper Azu, at least don't give it a shitty set like Belly Drum. What is beating Abomasnow supposed to prove?
+6 252+ Atk Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Weavile: 225-265 (80 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Being unable to OHKO something as frail as Weavile at +6 is really sad.
Sylveon would be worthless without Pixilate.
What did you think the other great ability was? Cute Charm?
If Clefable only had Cute Charm it'd be pretty much Wigglytuff with a slightly extended movepool
which isn't a good thing ;-;
I think Nidoqueen would still be decent with just Poison Point, honestly.
What... offensive CM Flamethrower Unaware Clefable? What planet are you from?
And if you don't care, why are you posting in this thread? People don't express a lack of care by saying that they don't care. If they don't care about something, they just ignore it.
is this how you pretend to argue?
Oh, if you wanna argue for real then please format your argument without using "le" ">muh" or "b-but" and other such maymays.
It's okay if you can't anon, I won't hold it against you.
Ambipom should really be NU desu. It being one of the least, if not the least, viable pokemon in the RU tier it really should drop. People need to drop the misconception that this thing is good.
>yfw Seismitoad gets QP ingame and it disables all held items for 5 turns
Ambipom should have been NU in gen 5.
Heard of it? Probably not, it's shit. Just like that move would be.
Do it anyways lel.
yes, but not high enough
Another tier for Azumarill to rule? Sure, why not.
Or it could just be a Water-type Knock Off.
Not sure why sylveon gets all the hate. I've been leading it with m-gengar on a vgc16 team on showdown and idk if its unexpected or whatever but hyper voice nukes both of their pokes more often than it should
I play Smogon doubles, Specs Sylveon is super dumb late game (people will kill it ASAP early game, but it's probably less threatened in VGC because only 3 pokes on field).
Literally "yell it to death: the Pokemon," and I love it for that. It just wins shit I should have probably lost, I've been inches from forfeiting and then I sweep 4 Pokemon with it.
dunno about in singles, don't see it, haven't used it, it's probably not that good there
it's technically a general ban for an item, keeping with the whole "simple rules" argument (IIRC, that's exactly how the ban is written, the item itself is banned, no "pokemon+item" combo ban)
as for usage, that's really simple: if you brought the stone, it counts
just having the option on the field at the time of battle counts
Exactly. the option is what makes the Pokemon strong, not necessarily the function. In many cases, yes, there is at least a 99% chance a Pokemon+Mega stone will evolve but in some cases, especially Gyarados, the chance is a lot smaller but the option is always there.
Choice Specs Rotom can trick the specs on to you... but doesnt have to. It could also just Volt switch with the STABSpecs boost... or just Trick.
The option is always there, the necessity isn't. my Rotom example isnt very good but you get the point, I hope.
It would be BL if UU banned Politoed instead of just Drought.
Clefable was comfortably sitting in RU in Gen 5. It's never been OU material, but nowhere near a bad mon either. Even without a special STAB move to abuse you could've done pretty much anything you wanted with it, from wallbreaking to CM sweeping to the usual defensive roles. Special STAB was all it needed to be pushed into OU.