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Touhou Puppet Dance Performance TPDP
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For continued discussion of us plebs who can't read Japanese envying the people who are already playing the expansion. And fish.


Last thread: >>24931734

Game download pre-patched and ready to go in english (No expansion, don't expect it to be translated anytime soon):
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ynnmmo4k9noe0cr/%E5%B9%BB%E6%83%B3%E4%BA%BA%E5%BD%A2%E6%BC%94%E8%88%9E.rar

Expansion downloads (Not translated): http://pastebin.com/X5fU9Cde

The game requires your computer to be in japanese locale or emulated via Locale Emulator provided in the download. If you don't do this, numbers will be bugged or the game won't run at all:
https://mega.nz/#!q0lixKqI!n07oANzavBNSgGwWtm5Ezyuf9B0ifT36yi6Vmyi3kjo

Wiki: http://tpdp.supersanctuary.net/wiki/Main_Page

Puppetdex with a bit more utility than the wiki, have to download it and use a spreadsheet viewer:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/ozuu2sf3ovitzux/tpdp_PuppetDex_1.91.xlsx

FAQ, useful links and additional resources: http://pastebin.com/NyBVqHVy
>>
Where did you find her?
>>
>>24943621
She's very rare in the dream world
>>
For fun calculations:

252+ ATK (Pokemon-style EVs) Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 64 DEF (puppet-style EVs) SukunaD: 246-290 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's a STAB BP120 move running off of a fully invested base 180 ATK hitting a weakness and it CAN'T ONESHOT. Note that SukunaD is running no HP investment, isn't using a boosting mark for Defense, and isn't holding a Golden Hairpin.


If Primal Groudon is using Earthquake for consistency (but is still Adamant nature) and SukunaD is holding a Golden Hairpin, it gets worse: the damage range drops to 200-236 (58.4 - 69%).

No Adamant Nature and Earthquake? (53.2 - 63.1%). Still a 2HKO, but remarkable given Primal Groudon's base 180 attack.
These are at level 100 however, and TPDP is very heavily focused on doing battles at level 50, whereupon those last two calculations become very different.

252+ ATK Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 64 DEF SukunaD: 72-86 (47.6 - 56.9%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO

Not even a guaranteed 2HKO anymore, and Groudon's still Adamant nature here.

Without it?

252 ATK Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. +1 0 HP / 64 DEF SukunaD: 66-78 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO

Enough said.

Precipice Blades is still a 2HKO no matter what nature assuming both hit, but there's a 28% chance it misses at least once.

On the other side of things (assuming level 50):

64+ ATK (puppet-style EVS) SukunaD Shooting Press vs. 4/0 DEF (Pokemon-style EVS) Primal Groudon: 104-126 (59 - 71.5) -- Guaranteed 2HKO

If Primal Groudon isn't running Precipice Blades, Swords Dance, or a special attack, and isn't investing in bulk himself, he loses to Golden Hairpin SukunaD barring a crit on his end. This also applies if he is running Precipice Blades and misses once without Swords Dance up, or if SukunaD gets lucky and crits him for the 1HKO.

Primal Groudon is BST 770.

SukunaD is BST 370.

This tiny thing can murder arguably the strongest thing in Ubers. Enough said.
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>>24943638
>>
Do any of you mythical moon decipherers know what this shit says? Looks like Extra Kaguya, Reimu, and Yukari get it.
>>
>>24943668
Mysterious Heavenly Rainbow: boosts FAtk by 30% in Sunshower (the new weather).
>>
>>24943725
Is that the only thing Yukari EX gets?
I personally hate weather.
>>
>>24943725
Thanks!

The OCR -> google translate process I was using was giving me: "The Atsumari-dan Gar 3 when the weather ‥ Weather Rain
Double _ this ' night."

Anyways.. what does Sunshower do again? Regardless it seems that this ability is pretty shit.
>>
>>24943742
she gets wisdom eye as well which is pretty decent
>>
>>24943742
Yes, Extra Yukari's other ability is Wisdom Eye/Unaware which sounds much more appealing to me than a Sand Force clone. Sunshower is as docile as weather gets; it's actually just Wonder Room.
>>
>>24943754
>>24943765
That actually sounds neat.
>>
Which Raiko should I use?
They both look good with only 1 weakness and high Sp.att.
>>
Why does Sound resist Water?
I don't understand.
>>
>>24943863
Singers can hold their breaths underwater more than an ordinary guy,That's all I got.
>>
>>24943863
water generally amplifies sound. Sure you could pull something out of your ass based on that.
>>
>>24943863

Sound travels faster in water I guess? Explains water being weak to sound at least.
>>
>>24943923

Nevermind water isn't weak to sound, I'm retarded.
>>
>>24943860

Pretty sure power is the objectively better one, but I'm sure Raikoanon will show up to throw an informative wall of text at you soon enough.
>>
Neat. So HijiriE gets Recoil Offset and with it: Luminous Flux, Thor's Hammer, and Full Metal Crash.

Might be fun.
>>
Imported my save data from TPDP, anyone know how to access older 2hus?

I'm in post-game.
>>
>>24943982

Seems like she could be a pretty effective high speed mixed attacker that doesn't come with the usual drawback of dying instantly to any damage.
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>>24943651
>>24943638
>>
>>24944002
no
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>>24944040
Don't you even dare.
>>
>>24944040
That's some vore, isn't it?
>>
>>24944064

_no
>>
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>>24944064
No, it's just more fucking futa.
>>
The anon saying mima was the new Red got BTFO, she is just a three puppets trainer you fight at the former hell tournament, she get her own battle music, though.
>>
>>24944122

Yeah, she had pretty nice music I must say.
>>
>>24944122
It's not exclusively Mima's theme, just the battle Theme for PC98 characters

Also you can fight her post-game in 90s leveled team
>>
So how do I dream world?
I'm going to the bamboo forest right now for Keine quest.
>>
>>24944143
You can access the "secret" area after you get the wood cutting doll (to find it just pay attention to the fully grown bambo; second area you see it).

There will be a house there. Sleep in it to go to the dream world/the lunar capital.

The first time you can go to it for free, but after that you'll need to use a 1000yen/whatever dream pill. You get these from Reisen in the human village. I know for certain she appears there after the scarlet devil mansion. Not sure if she's there earlier.
>>
>>24944143
After Eientei, return to entrance of bamboo forest, then take right, down, up, left, down.

Cut the trees. As you enter the forest you'll find a shack. Enter that then take the item near the bed (胡蝶夢丸) then sleep, confirm.

To enter again just buy the shady drug from Reisen then repeat.
>>
>>24944157
>>24944158
So gotta buy lots of seals for the free ride then.
Thanks.
>>
>>24944164
Yeah, just buy lots of it and don't sell it as you'll need it post game where you can go to Hell via Sanzu River
>>
>>24944157
Actually, the first time isn't free, it's just that you get a pill from the orb beside the house that you get to use.

So, if you were to say, grab it, then decide to go back to the store at the entrance to the bamboo forest, sell all your shit to stock up on threads and come back, you would be shit out of luck. So don't do that.

I'm fucking retarded.
>>
Alright, I got Extra Meiling to 70. Besides what's listed, she gets what's basically a Nature type Fire Blast, Concussion and Forsee. Don't see it helping that much, which is a shame.
>>
I updated to 1.011 and now it's acting up. Is anyone else having problems?
>>
>>24944122
You aren't fighting her post-game team
>>
>>24944204
none on my end. What do you mean "problems"?
>>
Did ByakurenS's type change? Illusion attacks aren't working against Shinki's ByakurenS
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>>24944199
Wait, my bad, I'm pretty sure it's the orb INSIDE the house. My mistake.
>>
>>24944216
That's odd. The dollPages info lists here as Fighting/Light still. Illusion attacks should be SE
>>
>>24944216
Nevermind, I'm just a dumbass. Dunno what the attack is but it apparently has a gimmick
>>
>>24944211
First it was lagging, thought it was because I was running Visual Novel Reader while watching AGDQ. After closing it the game ran better but then kept freezing. After a couple closes now it doesn't start, it just appear on the Task Manager.

I'm gonna delete the exe and reinstall to see if gets fixed.
>>
>>24944235
Did you exit prematurely during the patching process? I just barely did one time and it really fucked things up.
>>
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REMOVE FISH
R
E
M
O
V
E

REMOVE HECATIA
R
E
M
O
V
E
>>
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>>24944246
>>
Are you guys playing the expansion? I can't read moon, unless there's a guide for machine translation someone wants to point for me.
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>>24944299
>Not knowing 日本語
wwww
>>
So, when are you able to buy the dream pills from Reisen

Because I've beaten the game and she ain't selling shit
>>
>>24944299
you don't need to know japanese to play the expansion, really
>>
>>24944299

There's some program called Visual Novel Reader or something like that that people have mentioned having good success with, but I haven't tried it myself and you're otherwise out of luck unless you suddenly learn how to read nip.
>>
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Finally done with my Kanako research.

Power got a slight buff to her Empty Mind and Heart skill, it now recovers HP a bit in Calm weather. That new wind move is good on her since it's 95 BP with a 10% flinch chance and doesn't make her suicide. Her level 70 moves suck shit, they're all spread moves even though her spread attack is only 80. Macroburst, Off-Season Blossom and that new Nature Fire Blast. She has Strenuous Stance now, so she can finally boost her offense. If you're really desperate, you can slap a Silver Hairpin on her and use her to beat the fish, but that's about it and you need to keep Stealth Steel off the field for that.

Defense didn't get much help either. She got Iron Wall Stance and an Earth type Fire Blast at level 70. Her special attack is respectable so she can actually use it, but not much has changed beside that.

Extra is probably the best of them, but still not that good. She can check Sukuna with Metallurgy since she's immune to both of her STAB moves, but doesn't like taking Void moves at all. I think she'd be pretty good if her stat distribution wasn't garbage. She's basically made to be a curse sweeper like Snorlax but her speed is way too high at a base of 95. 100 Fo Attack isn't good enough for plowing through things, and 75 Sp Atk isn't enough for going mixed. Her level 70 moves are Root Frog and Cross Counter, and you'd only really use Root Frog. The only thing I don't know is her new ability, but it's a weather ability from what I could figure out.

Basically, screw me.
>>
>>24944395

It's all just a test to prove how dedicated you are to your waifu.

If you truly love her you'll still accept her. She'll still be shit.
>>
>>24944456

I'm still gonna use her on my team. But now the decision is basically if I want to kill a fish or kill a midget. Defense is probably still better than Power overall, but you may as well use Sukuna for bulky physical related stuff.
>>
Ridiculously nasty new threat #8 or whatever, EikiE

Warp/Void

140/60/100/90/100/60

One of her abilities is unknown, but who cares when the other is the same one that RenkoE gets (i.e. remove the opponent's ability completely on switch-in)

Notable moves from level-up:
3 untranslated and unknown moves (probably warp moves)
Power Spot (i.e. Wish; I don't know the mechanics behind it but if it works like in Pokemon then those are some really big heals you can pass on to team-mates)
Ghost Wave (if you want to fish for the 30% fear chance and ruin spread attackers)
Pretense (to change your type and thus make your opponent's switch-in scream in rage)
A new untranslated Void type Spread move:
BP140, 100% accuracy, no additional effects, 5SP (i.e. Boomburst with half the uses)

From Skill-Cards
Emperor's Indignity (stop Sound-types in their tracks)
Eye of Laplace (kill other Warp types)
Gravity Blast (fuck over Fighting Types)
Field Barrier (SCREENS)
Field Protect (SCREENS)
More untranslated moves, probably some more Warp moves in there
Catastrophe (if Gravity Blast runs out too quickly for you)
Sign skills (combine with Pretense to become whatever type you want)

Thankfully she has a 4xweakness to Changeling and isn't very fast so she's nowhere near unstoppable.
>>
>>24944500
Sounds pretty gutsy.
>>
>>24944500
Does anyone else get that void spread move? Someone with a skill to convert it into another type maybe?
>>
>>24944500

>changed primary type from light to warp

the fuck
>>
>>24944520
List of users if I'm reading this right:
LilyA
ShingyokoA
EikiE
FlandreE
KoakumaE
ReimuE
UtsuhoE
GyokutoP
>>
>>24944521
Her ideals have been warped.
>>
>>24944521
SHE FEELS THE WARP OVERTAKING HER
IT IS A GOOD PAIN
>>
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Is it possible to catch the lvl 99 Lily?
>>
>>24944584
No, not even a Fate Thread can pull it off.

She is too spring.
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>>24944240
Nah, it wasn't the patching. After a couple of installs and a bunch of messing around I found out the VNR keeps freezing it. That thing just had an update as well.
Funny thing is, my internet cut off for a moment and I was able to run the VNR without the translation. It works but for some reason translating the text breaks the game and I have to keep replacing the exe.
>>
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damn chill out suika
>>
>>24944728

Time to build up a spread attack SuikaP, get to work.
>>
>>24944740
Excellent idea. We're already in shit city here, might as well make it even shittier
>>
>>24944135
MEH, sometimes i hate hemo favoritist over PC98, i liked when letty was red.
>>
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Christ, this game REALLY wants me to use Toyohime, this is like the fourth I've seen in like 40 steps.
>>
>>24944500
No! that ability was the only thing that made Renko useful! now no one has reason to use her.
>>
Extra Sanae seems pretty fun so far. Her only good stat is Focus Attack, but she has a buttload of resistances and you can choose between either reducing your Dark weakness to 2x or going into hyper sweep mode with that ability that boosts speed by 3x and move power by 1.3x. Even gets STAB on what's basically Reversal on top of Endure.
>>
I am confused, where is the "battle tower"? at first i thought it was that arena in the former hell, but that is just for a small tournament where you fight mima.
>>
>>24944878
>going into hyper sweep mode with that ability that boosts speed by 3x and move power by 1.3x.

What's the conditional / drawback on that?
>>
>>24944770
Are you fucking serious? It must be a sign- she's extremely rare.

also that's some ace taste with your starter
>>
>>24944890

You have to be at low HP for it to activate. Easily stopped by priority. At the same time, you don't have to immediately go into that form. Her only weakness is Dark.
>>
>>24944905
does she learn endure?
>>
>>24944908
nvm, just looked it up. She does. Neat.
>>
>>24944636
k nevermind it's crashing without the VNR. What the fuck.
>>
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That's just evil.
>>
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... I think I might have gone a little overboard with ensuring I got myself a Junko with decent EVs.
>>
>>24945072

If you're lucky then maybe one of those will have a C in the stats you want.
>>
>>24945072
You realize that post game you can reincarnate your puppets to get better EVs, right?
>>
>>24945104
True, but I am not near postgame yet, and I want to use her in my main team.
>>
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>>24945072
it's worth it
>>
Assuming these puppets were rated by comparison with actual Pokemon
What tier would most of them be?
>>
>>24945216

Honestly, even the worst of them would probably be on par with around RU or UU pokemon. There's obvious ones that'd be terrible like giant Suika or Regiyukari, but that's about it.
>>
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I want to thanks again the nice anon that gave us a download with all the new portraits of the game in the previous thread.
>>
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>>24945245
...And to the anon that wanted to keep the art files for one more a week (and then a month), YOU ARE MEAN!
>>
>>24945245
>>24945255
I think they are the same anon, he had a change of heart
>>
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>>24945278
Take look at clownpiece's minions, they are cute.
>>
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>>24945228
Pic related was universally agree to be the local Luvdisk, then the expansion gave her one hell of new ability....but then it was discovered that a better puppet gets the same new ability, making her irrelevant.
>>
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>>24945303
Opps, that was for >>24945216
>>
>>24945303

So how many people are gonna complain for buffs for their favorites? I know I am. Feel bad for Meiling too, but I don't know what her abilities are.
>>
>>24945303
Wouldn't say that; she doesn't have as exploitable of a typing and learns Stealth Trap.
>>
>>24945303
She has a solid niche that she occupies with having the longest lasting field/weather moves. It's not the most utilized niche, but she does it the best. Name something luvdisc does better than another pokemon.
>>
>>24945363
So, in touhoumon, nobody is truly useless? holy shit hemo, that is dedication.
>>
>>24945363
luvdisc gives heart scales
>>
How do I get the Shining Needle Castle?
>>
>>24945363

I feel like some of them don't really have one, but perhaps I'm looking too much into individual forms.
>>
>>24945377
We are talking about being useful in battles.
>>
>>24945377
Beating Renko gives PP.
PP > heart scales.
>>
>>24945383
Post-game. Clear Underworld/Hakugyokurou, talk to Akyuu then beat Team 9 Rematch in Human Village and Medicine Rematch in Garden (near Route 6).

After all that gap to Youkai Mountain (the point near Mayohiga) where you'll meet Aya. She'll transport you to Shining Needle Castle.
>>
>>24945410
I see, thank you.
>>
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>>24945410
I bet there you can find this bitch doing what she does best.
>>
>>24945425
Shouldn't Seija be hiding somewhere else?
>>
>>24945363
RenkoS gets permaweather. Legit bonafide permaweather like that of Gen 5 or earlier, not even the "until you switch out" stuff of Gen 6. Not even Ubers get that anymore.

RenkoA gets 8 turn terrain effects. Do you know how many people would KILL for an 8-turn Trick Room? Quite a few.

RenkoE is Shuckle with less godawful HP, much better defensive typing, a stellar ability shared by only one other puppet, and a lot of truly ridiculous utility moves.

She learns Power Mean with base 5 offenses, learns Stealth Trap, learns Bind Trap, learns Encourage so she's not set-up fodder, and has 2 untranslated moves at level 70 that might just make her even better.

RenkoE is good.
>>
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>>24945434
Everyone expects her to be hidden, so she shows herself instead, because that is how she rolls.
>>
I want to go with HecatiaP but Extra looks good too.
What to do?
>>
>>24945552
both
>>
I chose Meira as my starter. Are any of her forms worth using?
>>
>>24945589
Why the fuck would you pick a fakehou.
>>
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>>24945600
>http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Meira
>>
Depends on what you want to accomplish / preferences. Do you want higher Focus Attack (Power), Spread Attack (Extra), or Speed?

Personally, I'd go with Speed (one of its abilities is Sore Loser, which is basically Defiant). Invest in Focus Attack EVs and learn Mad Rush Stance (Shift Gear).
>>
>>24943638
>someone posts a calculation talking about how a BST 770 overpowered as fuck legendary can lose to a BST 370 tiny girl
>the only direct reply was a picture of said tiny girl being cute

Does this thread even care about competitive at all, or just the fact that she's adorable?
good, smogon is boring
>>
>>24945278
>>24945245
I didn't gave out the download; that was Derxwna.
Honestly wanted to tease you, all, more.
>>
>>24945860
>>
>>24945860

SukunaD being a god of physical fights has just been pretty common knowledge for a while now, when new stuff comes in like fishE and Hecatia's stances everyone gets more amped up about it.
>>
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>>24945860
As the person who did the calculations, the response was kind of surprising.

But pleasing, because goddamnit even if she was bad I'd still run SukunaD just because of the cute factor.
>>
Okay so I've collected all the books and went back to the area from the very beginning

What else do I have to do to unlock the battle tower and reisen's sleeping pills
>>
>>24945860
Gotta remember her ability makes her actual BST much higher.
>>
>>24945927
NEVERMIND FOUND A CAVE
>>
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So...can you fight the girl that literally slept with you? the fact she has a special portrait face makes me think you can.
>>
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>>24945877
>>24945886
Speaking of... (Assuming Level 50)

252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Thunder vs 64 HP / 0 SpD WakasagiE : 118-139 (51.9-61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

64+ SpA WakasagiE Energy Absorb v 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 102-122 (49.2 - 58.9%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

The real kicker is that Wakasagi regains HP from Energy Absorb, so a 2HKO won't be in the question anyways.

If Primal Kyogre doesn't have a set-up move, he loses to the fishy. Period; Kyogre doesn't have any physical moves that would do more damage to her than the special attacks, and even Thunder won't 2HKO thanks to the HP recovery from Energy Absorb (hell, even just giving her Food Rations gives her a very small chance to survive 2 Thunders without any further recovery. If Kyogre doesn't use Thunder when she comes in, he better be setting up or getting the fuck out of there or else he's going to die. And fleeing means you just gave her a free turn to set up Genbu.

Just for fun, although running a Hyper Beam variant is still a godawful idea:

64+ SpA WakasagiE Sakura Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 204-242 (98.5 - 116.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

The fishy is THAT powerful. God help us.
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>>24945965
All of the girls have Neutral, Angry, Beaten, and Happy faces. Koishi doesn't seem to have any extra ones aside from the sleeping event.
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>>24945967

And if you have genbu set up before Kyogre comes in then it becomes so lopsided it's not even remotely a fair fight anymore.

All hail our new fish overlord.
>>
>>24945967
Those numbers are cool and all, but honest question, does TPDP run the same exact calculations that pokemon does? There's the whole thing of most moves being stronger than their pokemon variants, for instance.
>>
>>24946026
Damage calculation works the exact same way, although in 1.34 the variance was 86-100% in contrast to Pokemon's 85-100%; this was set to 85-100% in the demo of the expansion so I think it's safe to say they're the same.

In Waggyswaggy's case Energy Absorb is identical to Giga Drain, so BP differences don't apply here.

The point is that the fish is a killing machine.
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>>24946060
Oh crap I forgot to factor SR/ST into the mix (in which case Kyogre might 2HKO even through Energy Drain recovery) or the small chance of parahax letting Kyogre win out, but then again outside of Food Rations as a side mention I didn't give Waggyswaggy any items either.
>>
>WakasagiE can murder Primal Kyogre 1v1
>SukunaD can if it isn't prepared murder Primal Groudon

I thought you people said this was more balanced
>>
>>24945996
Actually depending on damage rolls and whether SR is up or not, Waggyswaggy can set Genbu up ON Primal Kyogre AFTER it switches in (as in it gets a Thunder in during the Genbu turn) and still kill it first.

Setting up as it switches in, let alone before that? RIP Kyogre.
>>
>>24946183
we need to get a drawfag on this
>>
>>24946183

The difference is that Kyogre and Groudon are still disgustingly strong even at their weakest and have dramatically wider usability.

SukunaD just stops existing against things that counter her, she only excels in her comfort zone.

Wiggywaggy is a whole new beast though, it's hard to say what she's going to be like exactly until people start getting some live experience with her, same with HecatiaE.
>>
>>24946183
SukunaD dies to pretty much any spread attack.
>>
Is there a zip of custom sprites or anything? I wanna run around as Maribel.
>>
>>24946208
This. SukunaD is so far past fragile to spread attacks that it is your duty to keep her safe from those as much as possible.
>>
>>24943638
Do Puppet EVs count for a lot more at max than pokemon EVs? That seems like a pretty substantial difference even for the defensive equivalent to Huge Power.
>>
>>24946299
Pokemon EVs at the effective max of 252 is +63 points, divided by half at level 50 (and rounded up for 32 points).

Puppet EVs at the max of 64 is +64 points, divided by half at level 50 (i.e. +32).

It's just Miracle Mallet is completly busted.
>>
>>24944728
Make sure you keep her. e- stats are arguably even more valuable than S+ stats for reincarnation purposes.
>>
>>24946325
Besides focus attack for foul play, any other use for them?
>>
>>24946325
I can't see any E- stat being useful at all except Speed.
>>
>>24946331
Trick room? Atk/def mean moves perhaps?
>>
>>24946331
Speed for Trick Room teams and D. Yuuka, Sp. Attack if Power Share equivalent ever becomes relevant.
>>
>3-8 months to translate

end me
>>
>>24946208

I'm hoping fish is common so Kanako can do something besides be average.
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Hate to be that guy again, but what the hell does this say? From OCR and google translate I think it may be giving pre-emptive moves a 1.2x boost, but I'm not certain.
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>>24946595
Oh, and MikoE, KurumiE, WriggleE, and HijiriE possess it.
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the hardest part of the game has arrived
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>>24946644
Just pick Hecatia E
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>>24946595
Ability: First Attack
When attacking first on the first turn since your appearance, skill damage becomes 1.2x
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>>24946595
>>24946608

>ファーストアタック
>("First Strike")
>登場し てから最初のターソに先制の場合 スキルの威力が1.2倍になる.
>("The first skill the puppet makes upon being sent out has its power
boosted by 20%.")
>>
>>24946220
Is she just wearing a teacup for a hat, or what?
>>
>>24946754
That's a soup bowl, thank you very much.
>>
>>24946706
>>24946709
Thanks a bunch guys. An interesting skill. Would be good if you're using a lot of lightning speed and the like.
>>
>>24946684
yeah, I can't not use that form, actually. Her defense form looks pretty legit too but that can wait.
>>
Time to discuss something that makes me very sad as a Raiko fan but will make people sick and tired of VoltTurn in competitive Pokemon very, VERY happy.

Four puppets (ERukuuto, EKisume, EKasen, and DHecatia) get a new ability that prevents the opponent from switching out via using moves. Basically backwards Shadow Tag; regular switching out still works but other ways for you to switch out don't. So that renders Escape Plan a complete waste of a move, makes Lightning Speed and Changeling much worse, and cripples Decresendo (although Decresendo will still at least do the stat drops and thus is still usable).

Notably, this makes EKasen a ridiculously hard counter to PElly; you're immune to Wind type moves and resist Steel type moves, have base 130 HP and base 130 DEF to tank anything she does throw at you, and she can't even use Backup Plan to pass the boosts on to something else. She has to switch and lose them completely, giving KasenE time to set up Strenuous Stance and then ruin whatever comes in next with a priority Strike Shot.

HecatiaD isn't half bad either: Base 80 HP and base 200(!) Special Defense is absolutely ridiculous bulk on the special end, but unlike OrangeD she has base 120 ATK so she can actually fight back rather than just sit there and take the hits. And she ALSO learns Strenuous Stance, although she has no priority to go with it and with base 50 speed and a blah base 70 Defense it may not be the best idea. I'd run her with a Golden Hairpin to cover the defense or a Silver Hairpin to just become impossible for spread attacks to do anything meaningful to you.

Extra Kisume learns Offensive Trance (i.e. Shell Smash). With 90/110/100 defenses, setting it up isn't even that difficult (although even double speed won't fix base 45 speed on it's own)

RuukutoE doesn't seem that good though, but 3/4 being viable threats is kind of scary especially with how they can easily force something out that normally could scout.
>>
I've a question for the competitive-minded anons.

I'm looking at JunkoP, and it seems she learns dragon dance. However, her stat spread is 100/125/100/90/110/60. Would dragon dance be at all useful on a spread like this?
>>
>>24947341
Yes, although you'll want to invest in speed so she doesn't need to spend more than one turn getting going..

...Wait she gets fucking Dragon Dance? Jesus goddamn christ 100/100/110 bulk is nuts and then once she's going she can heal herself with STAB Atomic Energy. If that speed was switched with her Spread ATK she would be absolutely disgusting.

I am starting to think basically the entire old meta may as well be tossed out the door at this point.
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I just want to take this moment to remind people that the new type's name has been finalized to Warped.
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>>24947423
Why Warped exactly?
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>>24947372
Her resistances are pretty nuts as well

|void=0.5x
|steel=0.5x
|wind=0x
|electric=0.5x
|light=0.5x
|nether=0.5x
|chaos=0.5x

That's 7/17. Not bad. I wonder if any type combinations have more than that.

And yeah the old meta is dead and gone RIP. I kinda feel bad for Utsuho fans. Taking 10 speed away was harsh, and probably not necessary considering the drastic meta shifts.

>>24947338
Thanks for the info and analysis Raiko bro

>>24947423
I'm one stupid son of a bitch when it comes to grammar, but is "warped" a noun? All the other types are... I'm not sure. Something about it is throwing me off.
>>
>>24947457
ah, I just realized that light/nature does at 8
void=0.5x
|water=0.5x
|nature=0.5x
|earth=0.5x
|electric=0.25x
|light=0.25x
|nether=0.5x
|sound=0.5x

Doesn't have an immunity, though
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>>24947448
When we compared the information we had - who got the new type, skills, abilities, what the skills animations looked like, the fact that one of the abilities is plainly called "Warped Bonus", and when you look at other factors such as the implications of the terminology, Warped was the best choice after we ruled out Chaos.
>>24947457
We... have an explanation for this, but I can't remember it at the moment, and those who could answer seem to be afk. I'll direct them to the thread so they can respond (or i can later) when they return.
>>
>>24947457
The new type used to be a noun but it got warped.
>>
>>24947476

That reminds me, how common is priority outside of Overtake Strike? Because that Extra Sanae sure seems fun.
>>
>>24947457
>>24947483

I feel like just simply calling it "Warp" makes more sense and fits with everything else better.

Fire, dark, nature, water, warp feels better than light, void, illusion, earth, warped.
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>>24947496
Warp is the shorthand we accepted on in most cases, but ultimately it's Warp/Warped.
>>
>>24947506

Fair enough, not too big a deal in the long run, whatever you feel like is the most literal translation is good in my book for this kind of thing.
>>
>>24947457
She does at least have 4 weaknesses (Dark, Poison, Fighting, and Illusion); AyaP can probably revenge-kill her with ease at any rate.

>>24947457
Don't forget abilities; RaikoE has 5 resistances and 2 immunities assuming you pick her good ability (resists water, light, dark, nether, and fighting, and is immune to void and warp). Hell, she resists one of JunkoP's STABs and is immune to the other, so she can probably check her.

God, Hemo has slowed the game the fuck down, hasn't he
>>
Holy shit the final battle in the post-game story. The 'getsu sisters are rockin with Demystified Feast, the main theme of the base game. My music fanboy in me is proud
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So besides Venom Nova, Extra Seiga gets Divine Punishment, Transcend Form and a mysterious new physical Nether move with 90 BP. One of her new moves is also a Poison type Earthquake, which is nice. Depending on her ability, she could be pretty solid. I have no idea what they are. All I could figure is that one skill lowers damage, and the other does something with priority.
>>
Looks like top skill sets all moves with priority >1 to priority 0 (for both sides).
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That anon was right. How the hell do you even begin to EV Hecatia? She wants HP, she wants speed, she wants BOTH attacking options.
Even if you choose one of FoAtt or SpAtt you still have to choose between that, HP and speed.

>>24947772
An ability that nullifies priority? That's some cool shit.
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>>24947772
Who gets that? That seems kind of ridiculously good; you fuck over Prankster, you fuck over priority attack moves, you fuck over Protect and the like...

It's absolutely insane.
>>
>>24947506
I think Warp fits better since Warped would be the only type in past sense that would be weird
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>>24947809

Extra Seiga. She's naturally fast so she doesn't care about losing priority, not that she has much of any. She's got a lot of neat tricks up her sleeve, 110 Fo. Atk and 120 Speed, Nuzzle and Taunt. Her main STAB moves have amazing base power, with some nice coverage with Nether, Nature and Illusion moves to add on. Her typing gives her 5 resistances. Her Sp. Def is pitiful though and she gets demolished by Wind.
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>>24947809
It's on YukiE, CirnoE, ChenE, MaribelE, EikiE, and SeigaE.
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>>24943601
>YnK Body Portraits & Sprites (Complete)
>No in battle puppet sprites
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>>24947483
>one of the abilities is plainly called "Warped Bonus"
How is ワープボーナス Warped when it's just wa-pu?
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>>24947910
Who needs those. You can't be cute with battle sprites.
>>
>>24947858
Now that I've had some time to try and remember, I believe our logic was that the type name refers to the state of being Warped, and Distorted. In translation, people wanted to call it Distortion, because that was also a possible translation. However, we agreed that, while Distortion was accurate, it didn't sound right as a type name - Warped continued to fit the same basic idea of it being twisted and distorted. "A warped personality", "warped beyond all recognition".
>>24947910
I apologize, I forgot to include them last night ;_; I was distracted and made that pack in a rush. To be honest, I don't particularly want to upload them until someone gif-ifies them for the wiki, but... I'll see if I can make a more complete version in a bit.
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So I've been looking through the sprites, and I've noticed that there are overworld sprites for all the puppet's alt costumes.
Well, I have the wedding dress on my puppet, but her overworld sprite is still the same. Did they not implement that feature, or did I do something wrong?
>>
>>24947890
Speaking of CirnoE, she's pretty damn good. Her other ability is the one that nullifies all moves with a BP of 50 or less. Not only that, she's got a pretty good defensive typing in Water/Fighting (0.5x to 7 types but 4 weaknesses) and access to Stealth Trap/consistent healing.

Even with only 80 base Spread Attack, she's a fantastic physical wall that completely shits on AyaP and a ton of other physical threats.
>>
>>24947952
It's implemented, and in fact some guy has been posting a lot with his wedding dress Yukari on the overworld.

You updated your game, right?
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>>24947942
I would appreciate it. I'm not the guy who makes the gifs for the wiki, but I enjoy using the sprites to make gifs for posting.

>>24947935
>You can't be cute with battle sprites.
>Im-fucking-plying
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>>24947952
you fucked something up
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>>24947976
I have not, I'll make sure to do that.
Thanks anon.
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>>24947952
You gotta patch your game
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>>24947920
Because that's not the only basis for why we went with Warped. In the end, Warped was one of the words we we had decided would be an option for the type, and since one of the abilities is "wa-pu bonasu" we went with that. Warped refers to the state of being. This element is in the state of warp/being warped. Honestly, Warp-Type sounds weirder than Warped type. Because compare Warp-type vs Warped-type, which one sounds like it has to do with twisting, bending and corrupting? In fact, Warped type in general is just stupid to me, but I digress. It could be Warp or Warped, but we went with Warped.
>>
>>24948024
If you don't like the sound of warped, why not go with, say, Distortion type instead?
>>
24948060

You misinterpret, I mean this new typing that Hemo made, this Warped, this 歪 type is stupid. Not the name itself.
>>
>>24948068
Oh ok.
I think the typings are kind of odd to start with, so I don't really mind that much.
>>
>>24948060
I still think it should just be called Warp.
Warp type flows better than Warped type.
>>
>>24948024
>>24948060

Not part of the translation team, but both Warped and Distortion sound clunky, and Warped isn't even a noun in most cases. It's like calling Water-types Wet or Ghost-types Spooky.

At least Warp has the whole 40k usage to fall back on.
>>
>>24948060
Primarily, we didn't like how Distortion sounded as a type name. But the other deciding factor was the length of the name. Interfaces could really only support 6 characters on the graphic, and we'd have to shorthand it. Distortion... doesn't cleanly shorthand. Fighting might be longer than 6, but it shorthands to Fight, and thus fits.
>>
It's what we're going with regardless.
>>
>>24948024
Those bonuses have names like "Leaf Bonus" and "Grand Bonus".
>compare Warp-type vs Warped-type, which one sounds like it has to do with twisting, bending and corrupting?
I'm not a warhammerfag, but "the warp" doesn't sound like a strange concept to me.
>>
So how do you stop Waggyswaggy
>>
>>24948125

A nature type that isn't weak to sound moves.
>>
>>24948125
Slap it and call it bad names
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>>24948125
It's simple, we POISON the water.
>>
Ultimately, in regards to Warped, we spent a good week after release, and the time after the demo came out, internally debating this and running over the options we had. The options we started with were Chaos, Warp/Warped, Alter/Altered, and Distortion. Chaos was ruled out when the Demo came out, and Distortion was ruled out based on length. This left us with Warp/ed vs Alter/ed. In the end, after seeing Warp Bonus, we decided on using Warp/Warped. As I said earlier, Warp was the accepted shorthand in situations that call for it to be shortened, but it's likely not going to change from Warped, because it refers to the state of the type: being in constant flux and twisted. We agreed to announce the name when we reached a final decision.
>>
>>24948125
Speaking of WakasagiE and Genbu, AliceE gets an ability that halves her speed while in Genbu. And yes, she learns Genbu herself.

This means when Genbu isn't up she can outspeed a decent chunk of things thanks to base 100 speed, and then once you do get Genbu up she can flip around and outslow a good chunk of the things you were outspeeding originally in addition to all the stuff legit faster than you.

I think it's safe to say at this point that Genbu teams are terrifying in every single way and that you should bring a way to handle them on your team or else you will get stomped.
>>
>>24948150
>but it's likely not going to change from Warped, because it refers to the state of the type: being in constant flux and twisted.
It sounds fucking stupid though.
Take literally any comment about a type and try using Warped in it. Then try using Warp in it.
It sounds way better as Warp and no one is going to actually call it Warped.
>>
>>24948150
I kind of like the idea of Flux Type, actually, but it doesn't matter that much in the end.
>>
>>24948125
I've been calcing a lot of things that could live two attacks on the switch and OHKO. I started with absolute max attack with a Scarf which would be uncommon, but MedicineD can live 2 120BP Cold Rains under Genbu if she has max SpDef EVs/Nature and a Vat of Poison and OHKO with Poisoned Arrow if she has max FoAtk EVs.

If you can switch in on a Wakasagi without trick room already up, or expect something like Life Orb instead lots of Nature types that are at least 1x vs Sound will do as long as they have enough Atk and a Poison type move to OHKO.

Stuff with Protect are good to stall out Trick Room turns, and you can still priority to death her if one Poison move doesn't kill. It has to be able to live at least one hit though.
>>
>>24948176
>>24948189
Personally in favor of Warped over Warp as I associate the word Warp primarily with teleporting, and that's not what the type is about at all. Flux does sound better to me though.
>>
>>24948176
That's not up to you, is it?
>>
>>24948226
Doesn't mean I can't state my opinion.
>>
Honestly I don't feel like Genbu is worth worrying about, it's still just a build-around-me gimmick that you can shut down with Taunt.

How do you stop a HO Nether team though? Can't rely on light types since most of those just get ripped to pieces by their dark weakness, sound types can't hit for SE back, and there are a lot of fast and hard hitting nether types to just completely crush the opponent.
>>
>>24948125
>>24948205
Let me post my list of shit with Poison moves that have the proper resists.
http://pastebin.com/JzcaSfzw
>>
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>>24947942
>>24947981
Actually, if you told me the dimensions you need the gifs to be, I could try my hand at making a few for the wiki.
>>
>>24948247
>NitoriE

Best kappa coming through in the end.
>>
>>24948226

If you're that deadset on Warped, why not just rename the rest of the type chart to match? It'd probably make them fit better with the "state of the type" theme anyways.

Fire - Burnt
Water - Wet
Nature - Growing
Earth - Stoned
Steel - Alloyed
Wind - Breezy
Electric - Shocked
Light - Illuminated
Dark - Darkened
Nether - Spectral
Poison - Tainted
Fighting - Fighting
Illusion - Tricked
Sound - Singing
Dream - Sleepy
Warp - Warped
>>
>>24948268
Disgusting Kappa only wants your anal ball
>>
>>24948279
> Earth - Stoned
Smokeweederrday

When you learn Japanese, come back.
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>>24948279
>Fighting
>not Beaten
>>
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>>24948295
>When you learn Japanese, come back.
Oh boy, here we go.
>>
>>24948282
Cute kappa that I want to open a shop with and sell overpriced merchandise.
>>
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT A MINUTE

> Light - Illuminated
Light has 5 letters. 5 - 2 = 3. Light is Yagami confirmed????????????????
>>
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>>24948282
This is canon.
>>
warped sounds stupid desu, i'm sure there is a better term you could use. even chaos or flux would be easier to associate.
>>
>>24948295
The problem is that everyone in the thread understands English to be quite honest.
>>
>>24948246

Which Nether types run priority?
>>
>>24948358
Why does that matter? Priority moves are BP40 and there are some very very fast nether types
>>
Oh god ExSatori is basically Greninja again literally why
>>
>>24948024
>compare Warp-type vs Warped-type, which one sounds like it has to do with twisting, bending and corrupting?
none, warp means teleportation to me
>>
>>24948370
Priority matters when you're sweeping and when you wanna secure kills without being murdered yourself.
>>
>>24948370

It's basically the only reason I'm considering SanaeE. She gets triple speed and a free Life Orb boost at low HP.
>>
>>24948386

that's because you're autistic. warp means to distort. in fact you could call it "distortion" type.
>>
>>24948246
SarielD is pretty bulky, resists both Dark and Nether with her ability, and can hit back with SE Light attacks. She's not that notable otherwise, though.
>>
Let's just call the new type Wapu instead.
>>
>>24948423
I say we call it Curse.
>>
>>24948427
Call it Dank type
>>
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>>24948423
I think you mean Hizumi.
>>
>>24948423
UFO type, because nobody can agree on how to define it.
>>
So, who's in the most pathetic state so far? As in, grasping for straws just to find a single reason to be used, even if it's just in a single form?
>>
People are getting so mad about Warped type, but shouldn't people be mad at Hemo for making such a dumb type?
>>
>>24948466
probably power yukari
>>
>>24948469

I'm mad that my favorites didn't get enough buffs.

>>24948473

I mean across all forms. I mean even if a Puppet has one terrible form, they might have another form to give them a place to fit in.
>>
>>24948469
I can't think on another type with the same weakness and resists without being "its [unexplainable ilogic thing], it aint gonna explain shit"
>>
>>24948370
Because there are faster things than said nether types.

I feel like trying to make Nether into Dragon isn't going to work here; too many things can take a netural hit while setting up and then turn the tables on you. Like fishE. Or you can have something that can take hits long enough to cripple whatever it's facing with status effects or the like, leaving it effectively useless. Or you can outspeed the nether type and kill it first. Yeah, Nether only is resisted by just two types (fewer than any other), but it only is SE against itself; almost nothing gets hit for SE by it as a result, and there are things that can take STAB netural moves and live while being able to fight back; HecatiaD can wall spread attacker nether types with ease for instance and rip them apart.

Nether is certainly buffed, but it's not broken. Hemo is actually somewhat good at balancing outside of his waifu bias.
>>
>>24948481
Yuugi Type it is
>>
>>24948464
I like that, Undefined-type, UFO for short.
>>
>>24948466

Kosuzu and Akyuu are probably the worst puppets in the game across all 6 of their forms, with the only remotely usable one being AkyuuA, who is a shit(tier) Shedinja.
>>
>>24948498
KosuzuE is actually not that terrible to be fair, and AkyuuA being Shedinja is at least worth considering at times.
>>
>>24948493
This is why we thought of Chaos type at first. The typing is just... weird. It encompasses distortion, warping, corruption all at once. This is a hardcore example of "Japanese word that can't be translated 100% into English". With this in mind, no matter what we go with, there will be unhappy people. Some people were also unhappy with Void-type for some weird reason.
>>
>>24948509
One of the Kosuzu forms has prankster, and people don't seem to know, but all Kosuzu forms can learn every skill card (TM). KosuzuE imo would probably be the best, because she gets doubled stats depending on what colored book she's holding (there's no speed book however).
>>
how many of you understand the game if so many if you can discuss it

or are you just playing the english base version
>>
How to extract Yume no Kakera's *.arc?
can't extract DXExtract.
i want to translation.
>>
>>24948648
It's just Pokemon with a fraction of the content untranslated, and if you try hard enough you can figure out what new things do through google translate/VNR, and observing in game.
>>
What's Doremy extra ability?
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Raiko is love.
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>>24948959
Where did you get those sprites, anon?
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>>24948968
IRC.
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>>24948968
I managed to get someone to convert the sprites to gif form. They're polishing it up before we actually post it here (iirc, Sunny had some fucked up frames).
>>
>>24948980
Actually no, the thing is that Sunny's waifu costume had messed up frames period, even in-game.
>>
>>24948984
That's pretty incredible. I guess nobody pointed it out because [Spoiler]sunny is the worst of the three fairies and nobody likes her[/spoiler].
>>
>>24948997
y'know, one day i'll get this 4chan business right. Until then, I'll go back to doing what I do best - working on fixing stuff in the translation!
>>
>>24948999
Hint: ctrl+s
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>>24948984
Wait so she ALWAYS jiggles like that?
That's hilarious. I might use her just for that.
>>
>>24948997
sunny is the best fairy, you shut your mouth
>>
http://www.mediafire.com/download/27wwj7mb103av6z/ynk+images.rar enjoy folks, this should contain everything now!
>>24949004
magnificent, technology sure is incredible!
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>>24949028
Here's a fixed sunny while we're at it, it's not in the main pack.
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Ok, I have come to the conclusion after the events that have transpired today that even trying to make a Smogon-style competitive team is a waste of time and effort in this game for a variety of reasons. There are hard-stop counters to every major strategy available (so if someone hates a particular kind of playstyle they can just tinker their team to shut it down), most people don't care how useful or useless their favorite is because they're going to use it anyways, and the fact that, to be blunt, playing to win is not as important as playing to have fun (although winning is certainly still nice).

Pic related, the last straw to my desires to ever want to make serious "win at all cost" teams in this game, not like there was much of those left at this point. Raiko is just too cute for me to want to play ultra-seriously at this point.
>>
>>24949051
I feel this is a good thing imo; When the 1.8 Era came around, the puppets in general seemed to be much more balanced. Granted some things were still a bit more powerful than others, and some Puppets kinda got shafted and only had one form (Hi PC-98), but in the end, this game is an extension of what 1.8 tried to do - make everything balanced out and viable, make it so you can actually play with your favorites and not need to rely on this small select team of Pokemon that everyone uses otherwise you're fucking screwed.

Touhoumon's metagame is the only meta that's kinda interested me, because of how it is.
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>>24949028
I do not recall Medicine's little friend there. Is that part of one of her new abilities?
>>
>>24949071
Might be, I'm not actually sure. I havent played ynk far enough to check, been busy with other stuff.
>>
>>24949051
I'd say that Raikoanon had given into his waifu, but he basically already had from the start so all he's done is give up completely on his initial goal of "make the best team and curbstomp everyone else". It is kind of hilarious how even in her wedding outfit she still plays the drums
>>
>>24949078
To be fair, the drums are just as much her as the rest of her body.
>>
>>24949113
I only wish I could be as enamored with my favorite as you are with Raiko.
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>>24949153
Oh, sorry, I'm not the Raikofriend you were responding to earlier. I'm just a lorefag and I'm enamored with Marisa.
>>
>>24949177
Same statement, different variable.
>>
Also, we forgot to mention I guess: The domain name on the wiki is back online, and has been for a while.
http://en.tpdpwiki.net/wiki/Main_Page
>>
>>24948984
>>
>>24949071
Is that doll's puppet's doll carrying a poisoned knife?
>>
>tfw no actual Genjii puppet in the game
>>
>>24949702
>those faggots saying costumes are enough

Fuck you assholes, if Rinnosuke can have a puppet, we should have the turtle too. And add Giant fish and Youki while at it.
>>
>>24949732
Speaking of which, is there one of the hidden/unused character in EoSD?
>>
>>24949749
Nope, no love for Rin
>>
no one told me satori uses your own exact fucking team against you in the expansion, god damn
>>
>>24949774
>tfw i expected satori's puppet to be Smeargle
>>
>>24949781
If she had, I'd surely max speed and run a variation of Sleep/Trap/Lock-on/OHKO.
>>
>>24945228
If the wiki is right. kosuzu's defense form has 350bst and her assist form has 260.
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For real now, why hasn't gamefreak implemented a proper AI yet? With the AI in this game you can PREDICT SWITCHES. It's a fucking blast.

If I didn't have two warp/chaos/ur mum types Kanako would have wiped the floor with me.
>>
>>24950108
>why hasn't gamefreak implemented a proper AI yet?
Too hard for 5 year olds.
>>
>>24950108
The problem is that they did
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>>24950203
wait, for real? I've not played gen 6 at all so I'm a bit out of the loop.
>>
I've been toying with the teambuilder for a little while, and with such a balanced typechart it's hard to make a team with at least two resistances to everything without doubling up on weaknesses.
I think I'm getting the hang of it now, though, and it's fun. Too bad it'll probably just stay as theorymonning with no one to play with.
>>
>>24950263
Post your Hecatia.
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>>24950278
o-ok

I had the witch outfit beforehand, but I like the default better because you can see the color changes easier.
>>
what's the name of the music that plays at the Youkai mountain? not the battle theme, the one that you hear while you walk there.

i know i've heard it before but i cant recall where.
>>
>>24950295
Dude what about your EVs?
Also I found Tewi at the bamboo forest selling something for an incredibly high price, anyone got an idea what it is?
>>
>>24950322
DONT YOU BELIEVE IT
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>>24950322
I'm not touching EVs right now because I have no idea what to do with them. She wants 4/6 stats for heaven's sake.
>>
>>24950314
Isn't that Fall of Fall?
>>
Why does Clownpiece suck so much?
>>
>>24950314
Fall of Fall ~ Aumtunal Waterfall

Stage 4 of MoF. Man, that game has a killer OST.
>>
>>24950349
>>24950360
Thanks a lot people. may your waifus always be shiny and chrome.
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>>24950358
>>
>>24950360
That reminds me is OST out?
>>
>>24950381
for the base game? Yes: http://doujinstyle.com/archives/4685
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>>24950322
Best item in the game, better farm up for it.
>>
>>24950408
I meant expansion obviously.
>>
Is Assist Chen good for post-game?
>>
>>24950485

ChenA is always a solid addition to any team unless you already have an excessive amount of earth / wind or you're running genbu.
>>
>>24950491
Sorry for being new but what is Genbu?
Also I'm asking this because I want to give YuukaD a try, I already have HecatiaD so Having 3 earth mons on the team is kinda bad.
>>
>>24950508
Trick Room.
>>
>>24950508

Basically it's just a five turn terrain effect that reverses the effect of speed, making slower units go first.

It's trick room from Pokemon if you're more familiar with that.

Earth is a pretty good type so having 3 puppets with it isn't the worst thing in the world, especially when all of them are double-types, feel free to do it if it means getting to use your waifus.
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>>24950518
>>24950519
Was it introduced in the expension? because I can't find the word Genbu in the wiki.
Well actually I love all the puppets I'm using right now that's why it's difficult for me to find a place for her.
>>
>>24950533

http://en.tpdpwiki.net/wiki/Field_Effects
http://en.tpdpwiki.net/wiki/Manifest%E3%80%8CGenbu%E3%80%8D

It was in the base game but the meta rendered it generally pretty shit to bother with trying to use.

That's sure as hell changing in the expansion though.
>>
>>24950533
>I can't find the word Genbu
It doesn't have its own page, it's under Field Effect. The skill that causes it is Manifest[Genbu], which also doesn't have its own page, but it's on the Skill list.
>>
>>24950544
>also doesn't have its own page
Okay, I guess I was wrong.
>>
>>24950556

The weird jap quotes around it makes it not show up in searches for some reason so I can't blame you, all the manifest skills are wonky to find on the wiki.
>>
Too bad terrains suck balls in pokemon
>>
>>24950700
That's because Trick Room in Pokemon doesn't have something capable of using it that could set it up on goddamn Primal Kyogre and then rip it to pieces.
>>
>>24950700

Who the hell uses Byakko or Seiryuu? I hear Suzaku is decent, but not sure who uses that.
>>
>>24950707
Can we just admit that Waggyswaggy is on par with fucking Ubers and ban it already
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>>24950738
>>
>>24950735
Does Suzaku work with the equivalent of pain spli? If so, I could see its use.
Byakko is kinda just there, no good skill is innacurate enough to ustify it and both teams would be running the 120 power ones.
I don't get what Seiryuu does, removes the STABs? What's the point?
>>
>>24950735
Extra Chen has an ability that gives a damage boost to STABs in Seiryuu (the JP doesn't say how much), and can set it up herself. She also has STAB on Last Resort, which has no immunities when you remove the type chart.

Still don't know what the point of Byakko is though.
>>
>>24950775

I don't get what Byakko is for. I believe KanakoE's second ability grants a 1.5x damage boost under Byakko, but no one runs it. I can't figure out the 1.2x boost though. There's a 100 in there, so I assumed it would boost moves with 100% accuracy, but 2 hit Twister is about as strong as a 55 BP 95 accuracy move. Might even be a bit weaker, not sure.
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>>24950562
Fug, I wasn't planning on using Ichirin...
On the other hand Kasen is my starter and I've been digging Sukuna.

Help me make my decision.
>>
>>24950853
Do a mono-fighting team for funsies.
>>
Why is this thread so against bans anyways? Is it the stigma of being compared to Smogon?
>>
>>24950995

I don't know. I don't mind either way, I'll stick to waiting for buffs since I hate how some of the things I like don't have very large niches.
>>
>>24950995

I think the biggest reason is that Pokemon itself already exists for people that want tryhard competitive esports banpools so it'd be nice to leave this untarnished for the people that just wanna watch some cute girls murdering other cute girls without worrying about their waifu getting removed from the game.
>>
>>24950995
there's no way to enforce bans anyway
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>>24950738
No. Ban the concept of bans instead from this game

>>24950995
Because there's no way to enforce bans outside of friendly agreement to do so before battle, and the fact that banning something would kind of ruin the whole point of the game (i.e. have your favorites beat up someone else's favorites).

>>24951007
Honestly, there's one thing about competitive Pokemon play that's kind of hilarious. Smogon focuses almost completely on single battles.

Actual legit Nintendo-hosted tournaments are oriented around double battles.

Smogon's entire metagame isn't even official at all.
>>
>>24951049
You're from Smogon yourself, you have no right to insult Pokemon competitive when you're a part of it.
>>
>>24951049

But my favorites aren't strong enough to beat up someone else's.
>>
>>24951090
What are your favorites?
>>
>>24951118

So far, my complaints are that some stuff I like seems outclassed. A couple examples, Meiling, no one uses her. Speed looks like her best form but a lot of other fast speedy attackers could probably do what she does outside of Regenerator. Extra is kinda bad from what I've tried. She has Nasty Plot, but a lot of weaknesses and her only decent stat is Sp. Atk. Luna is fun but she's kind of a gimmick that isn't too hard to stop.
>>
Oh, that's a nice change.

You know those type effectiveness charms (I.e. the game's equivalent to the yache berry cycle from Pokemon) that reduce the damage from a certain type's SE hit by half?

Guess what? Now they work on any hit from that type. So if I give the nether one to RaikoP, the first Nether type move thrown at her will effectively be double-resisted.

Might be useful if you want to ruin a certain type's day by pretending to have a resistance on a puppet for a few seconds.
>>
>>24951082
>You can't acknowledge the faults of something you enjoy and are involved in.
Found the fanboy.

>>24950995
Honestly, the game is fairly balanced as is. There are some puppets that perform better than others, but everyone has at least one thing going on. It's not like Pokemon where there are groups of mons that are designed to be objectively better than others (i.e. most Legendaries)
>>
>>24951145
Or for a more meta-relevant example, I could give Poison Sign (i.e. HP Poison) and the nature resist berry to RaikoP and use her as a surprise counter to WakasagiE.

64+ SpA RaikoP Poison Sign vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD WakasagiE : 208-248 (91.6 - 109.2%): 56.3% chance to OHKO.

You do that on her set-up turn, you either shoot her down before she even gets Genbu up or you leave her low enough on HP that she'll no longer be capable of fighting back.

...Actually the type resist berry is mostly meaningless here (even neutral her Energy Absorb won't 1HKO with 64 HP investment, not even with Life Orb support, although it will make it so a last thrown out Energy Absorb before dying will only do half damage), so it's not a good example, just I guess you can run HP Poison on strong special attackers to make Waggyswaggy go down with remarkable ease, especially since almost everything outspeeds her.

Waggyswaggy solution found!
>>
>>24951277

Could just run Silver Hairpin on certain things. Still gotta watch for residual damage though.
>>
>>24951143
I use Meiling in the base game since she's one of my favorites. She does alright but yeah, she's not great. Haven't finished post game in the original yet so I don't know how she is in the expansion.
>>
>>24951252
1. Fuck you Smogon is so much better at competitive than this
2. There are objectively better puppets (see; the BST 580-600 crowd with 0 drawbacks)
>>
>>24951346

A lot of 580 BST puppets aren't that great. For example, all Kanako forms are average to mediocre. A lot of good stuff falls into the 520-530 range.
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That anon wasn't kidding: there's a massive amount of hidden dango in Ringo's house. Why are Ringo and Seiran camping out behind moriya shrine anyways?
>>
>>24951397
Play LoLK.
>>
>>24951346
Current top 21 puppets:

1 EllyP - 500 BST
2 UtsuhoS - 530 BST
3 MamizouD - 560 BST
4 SukunaD - 370 BST (550+ BST with investment)
5 ReimuD - 535 BST
6 AyaP - 525 BST
7 SakuyaP - 525 BST
8 YuyukoP - 540 BST
9 KomachiP - 525 BST
10 TokikoP - 475 BST
11 AliceD - 515 BST
12 YumemiP - 520 BST
13 NitoriS - 495 BST
14 IkuP - 520 BST
14 FutoS - 520 BST
16 MurasaD - 505 BST
17 SuwakoS - 580 BST
18 ChiyuriD - 485 BST
19 MystiaP - 480 BST
20 KoishiA - 520 BST
21 YorihimeS - 580 BST
>>
>>24951450
Aha, clearly they're all in the 22-30 range
>>
>>24951346
>>24951450
There are 4(arguably 5) puppets with less than 500BST.
There is only 2 puppets with a BST of 580+(and this is because he decided to count in 21th position).

>>24951469
Which automatically makes them not top performing puppets.
>>
>>24951397
I just had terrible vision of MG MG being translated as "nom nom" in the expansion.
>>
>>24951487
And note the one in the top 20 has Moody. And still is only in 17th place.
>>
>>24951498
Oh god please no.
>>
>>24951498
>"nom nom"
ng
>>
>>24951498
>>24951505
Don't worry, we don't intend to touch those graphics.
>>
>>24951502

We need more high BST love.
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>>24951411
I just figured that they would have gone back to the lunar capital. The lunarians wouldn't ditch their faithful moon rabbits, right?

Wait nevermind, judging he dreamworld/lunar capital stuff this game probably takes place slightly before LoLK or some such.
>>
>>24951450
How the hell is that the case when a higher BST means you have MORE STATS

I mean obviously most things even in OU (ignoring Megas) are still in the BST 500~ crowd, but there are still a lot of BST 580-600 Pokemon and even a BST 700

What the hell
>>
>>24951642

Shitty abilities, shitty movepool, shitty typing, or all three.
>>
>>24951642

Because, big shocker, there are other factors in Pokemon aside from raw stat totals and the developers of this game actually use the entire wealth of tools available to make everything viable instead of just higher numbers = better.
>>
>>24951642
Because Hemo and company are more competent than GF.
>>
>>24951712

I generally agree, but I still think that 580 BST stuff is generally too weakened to make up for having a good BST.
>>
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>>24951642
>MORE STATS
Typically in useless areas, like a physical attacker having 95 special attack.

also >>24951675 >>24951680

I do wish Hemo would perhaps lay off the higher BST puppets a bit. In some cases his treatment has been rather brutal. sorry Kanako anon. Extra looks usable at least
>>
>>24951721

Especially when they also have those stats in such a way that 50+ of them are just entirely irrelevant and they're not doing anything more than a regular 500-520 BST unit but while still having a terrible movepool just because it says they're 580.

The balance is pretty good but it sure ain't perfect yet.
>>
>>24951627
Probably.

Also, Ringo canonically deserts the corps to live on Earth.
>>
>>24951735

I don't know whether E or D is better, actually. D isn't bad aside from her mediocre abilities. She can run a decent mixed set since she has Cold Rain, Inferno, Mist Fog and that new 120 BP Earth move. Wind God's Protection is pretty much the only utility she has, but it's better than nothing.

E seems awkward. She actually has one nice ability and a good typing, but the worst BST spread of the three. No immediate power like Power, no good mixed offensive stats like Defense. She's supposed to be a Curse sweeper but has 95 speed and two easy to wall STAB moves and needs Continue for HP recovery? Also her strongest Fighting move is Hammer Arm? I dunno, I'm not feeling it.

Power is still lel tier, but she can Assault Vest and beat Fish I guess. Also, no more relying on suicide STAB.
>>
>>24951642
Welcome to balance.

You get a high BST, even ignoring how you tend to get slammed with any/all of bad typing, bad movepool, or bad abilities, you still pay a price if none of that happens.

Sure, you have more raw stats, but you don't have those stats "optimally" distributed.

Compare ShinkiS to those of any BST 600 in OU; she pre-expansion has only a single double-weakness to Illusion and post-expansion still only has that plus a warp weakness, so she's good defensively (especially with her 4 resists and 2 immunities thanks to Dark Clothing), her type coverage is godawful but her STABs together aren't resisted by much, and she learns Brave Song (i.e. Nasty Plot) so it isn't like it's garbage, Dark Clothing is a nice ability so that isn't problematic, and she seems to be perfectly viable.

The problem are the stats: 95/105/90/125/90/95. She misses the critical base 100 speed benchmark, her ATK isn't high enough to really use a mixed set or to really want to focus on it (although she does get actual type coverage there unlike with her spread attack), her movepool is barren as hell (STABs, Brave Song, Burn Strike and Grand Liberate if you're running focus attacks, the moves literally everyone gets (although it's worth noting she DOESN'T EVEN LEARN UPBEAT)...

Her innate defenses are fine but aren't good enough to take high power moves without investment (especially with no way to recover outside of Continue)

She looks amazing on paper but the reality is she just isn't actually as good as one would think. And that applies to all the other high BSTs in general; they look ridiculous on paper but in reality they have too many flaws to really be absolutely broken. Meanwhile the 500-540 crowd don't have those issues and thus tend to be the top of the pack, and anything 500 and lower tends to get ridiculous things like the really REALLY good setup moves or min-maxed stats. It's almost like Hemo is balancing low BSTs against high BSTs!
>>
>>24951876
And it's worth noting that the expansion will change that somewhat; JunkoP, HecatiaD, and HecatiaE all look to be really REALLY good.

On the other hand, WakasagiE is absolutely terrifying and she's BST 480; it's just she's min-maxed like all hell. Oh, and a lot of the lower BST puppets had their stats get min-maxed a bit more in the expansion (for example, KogasaA had 10 points shifted from her useless ATK to her SpATK)
>>
>>24951894
Is there a list of stat changes, by the way?
>>
>>24951876
>>24951894
Seriously why isn't there a dragon type to give to the high BSTs to really make them good
>>
>>24951910

I want some abilities changed. Seriously, fuck Unjustness. This thing sucks ass.
>>
>>24951894

>Power Miko got 30 Sp. Atk slapped on her
>Power Yukari and Suika got nothing

That seems a bit unfair.
>>
>>24951910
Because Dragon types are as overpowered as Raiko is cute. So is the Pokemon version of Steel for that matter, just defensively rather than offensively.

Both of them got nerfed in Gen 6 and both of them are still ridiculously overpowered. There's a reason the expansion nerfed nether to have two types resist it at the same time and why no type in this game resists more than 5 types.

Actually the type chart (especially post expansion) is so much better than Pokemon's it's amazing. No types that are absolute trash offensively (Poison pre-Gen 6, and even afterwards it's still not great) or absolute trash defensively (ICE), but no types that are nigh-unstoppable offensively (Dragon) or nigh-unstoppable defensively (Steel).
>>
>>24951816
Do you know what her other ability, 西方の地脈, does? It seems to be unique to Extra Kanako.

>>24951876
This. Higher BST puppets nearly all suffer from "I want to be mew with a terrible movepool" syndrome. They lack distinct specialization.

>>24948381
this is hilarious
>>
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Happy Patchouly is cute.
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>>24951983

I only have a vague idea of what it does. I used an image translate to check, and the word Byakko is in there, so I assume that she gets a 1.5x boost to STAB moves in Byakko. I'm not sure about the 1.2x part. I wanted to assume it meant that 100% accurate STAB moves receive a 1.2x damage boost, but in practice it doesn't seem to be the case.
>>
>>24950980
Its my first play through, so i probably won't BUT I can be convinced. Are there fighting types that have spread attacks or have a spread that allows mixed fairly well?
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>>24948381
At least she is cute and not some overrated freak with a long tongue.
>>
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>>24952020
Look again. She is exactly the same as greninja.

Exactly.
The same.
>>
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>>24952063
Eye with limbs > tongue
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for real though the bike riding animation is the cutest shit ever
>>
>>24952310

Hemo knows how to waifu.
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>>24952310

I'm impressed he added them into the boat too.
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>>24952324
He has the experience
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>>24951996
Rare footage of Parsee ACTUALLY smiling.
>>
>>24943601
>You will need to either make some workarounds to allow the standalone english version to work with the expansion
What does this mean? I don't really want to reset my save, so how do I do it?
>>
>>24952384

You have to start from scratch no matter what bud, the only importing to the expansion is being able to reacquire your old puppets in post-game.

Making the expansion hook into the english version does nothing more than save you from having to download a vanilla version of the game and save some harddrive space, but if you want to do it then follow the little INI tweak guide in the expansion pastebin.
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>>24952333
it's pretty great

>>24952368
Wat

>>24952384
if you aren't up for basic file manipulation you could just copy the save in your current game and paste it into the installed game.
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>>24952460
Now when can you hold their hand?
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>>24952475
THAT IS TOO LEWD!
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>>24952475
>>
>>24952003
Speed Utsuho is one of the best Spread Attackers in the game, and she's fire/fighting. There's also Defense Hijiri and Speed Remilia, if you want something that you can get earlier.

Oh, and if you do decide to run all fighting, I would recommend picking up a Power Sakuya and/or a Power Aya, they're really good offensive puppets.
>>
>>24952490
They're just puppets bro. You're just making sure they don't run off, it's cool.
>>
>>24952384
>>24952428

Also I'll clarify the pastebin a bit better for future reference.
>>
>Extra Alice doesn't use her grimoire
Wasted potential.
>>
>>24952500

I'd like to recommend Extra Meiling. She's not good, but she could use a bit of love.
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>>24952501
Some of them have boobs...
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>>24952500
Oh yeah, and I especially recommend Power Sakuya because she's one of the few fighting types who doesn't get stomped by Power Aya, and can actually tank a few wind moves.
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>>24952547
You're not going to GROPE them, are you?
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>>24952637

It's a Sanae puppet, she'll be taking your hands and emulate groping herself while you're asleep.
>>
Danke for waiting; I've updated the pastebin with the (more) complete version of the puppet images. (Includes Sunny's fixed idle animation.)
Also, updated the Translated Fragments pastebin with the translation of 「西方の地脈」.

>>24949033
>>24949028

>>24950263
Switching AI es in Battle Maison, anon.

>>24952384
>I don't really want to reset my save, so how do I do it?
Por qué? You don't need to reset your save.

>>24951998
西方の地脈
("Earth of the West")/("Western Earth")
地相: 白虎の時 命中100のスキルの威力が1.2倍 必ず当たるスキルの威力が1.5倍になる。
("Terrain: During Byakko, 100% accuracy skills have their power boosted by 20%, however skills that damage you have their power boosted by 50%.")
*The description implies that the 50% boost only applies to skills (from the opposing doll/puppet) that damages you. (50% boost isn't applied to user's recoil-inducing moves.)
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>>24952650
That is my fetish.
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>>24952712
Bleh, should've put more emphasize on "implies"; I'm only 60% sure that the 50% boost doesn't apply to recoil-moves, instead of skills from the opponent.
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>>24952712

Holy fuck what an atrocious ability.

Just in case byakko wasn't useless enough as is, now you can take an ability to make it actively gimp yourself in addition to the wasted turn.

Poor, poor Kanako. Being high BST ain't an easy life.
>>
>>24952712

>The description implies that the 50% boost only applies to skills (from the opposing doll/puppet) that damages you. (50% boost isn't applied to user's recoil-inducing moves.)

Wait, so you take more damage than the other guy in Byakko? That sounds extra fucking shitty. What kind of awful ability is this? Doesn't help that her only attacking moves are Nature, Wind and Fighting. Who the fuck has this horrible hate boner for her?
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>>24952760
>>24952755

Even if it is "Just" 50% more recoil damage I'd still consider that to be a detrimental effect overall.

Not like it matters when byakko doesn't even exist anyways, it may as well just say "You have no ability".
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>>24952778

Guess Metallurgy is the ability of choice then, although that's not a particularly good ability either. Defense is the only form that matters then, everything else is terrible.
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>>24952785
>Metallurgy
>not a particularly good ability

>Gaining an immunity to one of the best attacking types in the game, and possibly this game's stealth rocks as well.
>not good

And don't forget that this is a type that Kanako is typically weak against.
>>
>>24952810
>>24952785
>>24952778
>>24952765
>>24952760
Better hope that I'm living up to my name and the description isn't actually
>"During Byakko, 100% accuracy skills have their power boosted by 20%, whilst skills that always hit will have their power boosted by 50%.
>>
>>24952810

No, it's a good ability, don't get me wrong. But it's a bandaid patch to make up for the fact that she has a noticeably worse movepool and poorly distributed stats than the other two forms. Metallurgy on Power would be great since she has a 4x weakness to it and it's the one thing that makes her bulk less impressive.
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You angered Yuuka, how fucked are you?
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>>24952833

That's still pretty shitty. Oh boy, I get a single 80 BP move boosted by 50%. That's just what the doctor ordered.
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>>24952833

That would make infinitely more sense and could be considered to be an actual ability so I think you're getting on the right track there baka-translator-kun.

I still can't imagine that ever being worth using but an actual attempt was made on that version.
>>
>>24952833
*is actually
Fuck me; since I'm still screwing up, I'm now 100% certain that it is actually "During Byakko, 100% accuracy skills have their power boosted by 20%, whilst skills that always hit will have their power boosted by 50%"
>>
>>24952810

Wait, now that I second think it, do immunity abilities really activate the boost from hazards? That sounds interesting. Although I hear no one even runs hazards.
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>>24952921
Not point in running hazards when stalling is impossible.
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>>24952921
Entry Hazards aren't that bad, and this game's stealth rock is ran sometimes, but they're hit pretty hard thanks to this game's rapid spin being a decently powerful move of a strong attacking type that can only be blocked by all of 2 puppets.
>>
>>24952927

It was something like that and Rapid Spin being near unresisted and given to everything. Although Chaos changes things slightly.
>>
>>24952937
Wait a second.
>Warp is immune to Wind
Holy shit Spinblocking is back.
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the plf fairies are super cute in the expansion
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also junko has the best attacking sprite
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>>24952989
Oppai fairy is still best generic.
>>
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looks like yuuka plays more of a role
>>
>>24952637
Don't be lewd. But they might be modified with hot glue.
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>>24953016
YOU the one bein' lewd here nigga.
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>>24952989
>>
>>24952999
>not Miko
Utsuho loses her iconic pose and somehow Miko ends up with it. It's actually pretty hilarious.
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>>24953007
>>
>>24953066

I have to see that.
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>>24953066
miko is pretty fabulous, but Junko's flagrant disregard cracks me up
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>>24953091
superior radicalized fairy
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>>24953091
>>
>losing to the first E4 battle with overleveled puppets

Why is everything so fast? I'm getting outsped even with 120 speed stuff.
>>
>>24953109
You thought this was going to be pokemon easy, anon?
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>>24953109
>120 speed
SakuyaP or go home.
>>
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>>24953095
Miko is a nice person...
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>>24953116

I thought I'd be faster with at least one thing. I also didn't think Marisa would sweep my entire team.
>>
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>>24953130
>Miko
>not Tojiko
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>>24953109
Because the E4 actually know how to pokemon

Just wait for the post game story.

Fuck you, 'getsu sisters
>>
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>>24953145
I think Anon means that Tojiko is saying that Miko is a nice person...even after a brutal dosage of NTR.
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>>24953160

I was just planning to casually go through the game to look for changes. I didn't expect to just go through the whole thing.
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>>24953179
>casually go through the game
Tthis is not a casual game, anon.
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>>24953192

Well I can't read any of this shit. It's all random scribbles, I just wanted to see the extra level 70 moves.
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new move in action. 95BP physical wind. Nothing too exciting
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>>24953227
YES! KILL THE ONI OF SEX!
>>
>>24953227

It's pretty good. 10% flinch chance too. I really like it.
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>>24953167
I was referencing Tojiko because of pic-related
>>
Thread's close to dropping off, head on over folks.

>>24953269
>>
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