ITT Smogon's reaction when Pachirisu at Worlds

>>20567057
>It'll never use it in singles, so why do they care?

>>20567076
:^) didn't mean to maymay arrow

It's funny how when tourney players start using/talking about stuff like Alomomola, Hawlucha, Starmie, Bronzong, and Mega Houndoom, no one gives a shit, and when a VGC player uses an oddball pick everyone goes "LOL YOU'LL NEVER SEE THIS SORT OF SHIT AT SMOGON."

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>/vp/ in charge of knowing what smogon is like

>>20567057
I don't think anyone cares

Smogon is singles and VGC is doubles so there is a huge difference in what is viable.

>mfw Verlisify was right

>>20567057
People at Smogon don't care. In fact, they may very well revere it as an achievement to use a mon that doesn't even work out in NU.

>>20568586
And even then, they do have a (small) community playing VGC/Smogon Doubles.

Le omg shitmon wins worldz XD
With his pals talonflame and garchomp
>guy gets 1# on the ou ladder with a flareon
>nobody cares

I missed it. Where can I watch the battle?

So, a clever teambuilding and a really good comprehension of the current meta are more important than a Pokemon's individual strengths.
How exactly is this new ?

>>20568729
pokemon's twitch channel

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They're too busy playing the game to give a fuck

>>20568895
this is the first time it's been a cutemon that's taken worlds by storm, the past trendbreakers have been stuff like mamoswine, bulky thundurus, and torkoal

>>20567146
it's because, being a pikaclone, it has a negative stigma attached to it

>>20568683
well what was the rest of the flareon guy's team

>>20568938
>playing the game
>calling the game to that shit simulator where they apply their stupid bans and faggy rules

>>20569023
Fine, they're too busy playing
>that shit simulator where they apply their stupid bans and faggy rules
to give a fuck

>>20567251
Get Rekt Smogon.

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>they actually care what smogon says

>>20569045
Nice played, anon. Nice played.

Can we take this as proof that VGC allows for more diversity than singles?

>>20567402
what did verlisify say that makes him a practical meme on /vp/ now?

>>20569108
>Alomomola in Singles

>>20568895
Pachi is not some shitmon though, it's just really, really niche.

it's one of, iirc, two things with Follow Me that are currently OU legal. It has Volt Absorb. Amoonguss is generally the better re-director but everyone is prepared for it. Put two and two together.

>>20568999
>torkoal
HAHA
ray pls go

>>20569108
>implying Skarmory is viable in doubles
>implying anyone uses Mega Pinsir

They don't care because Smogon doesn't really cover the VGC meta. It'd be like asking how they reacted to who won the TCG championship.

oh wait i mean le smogon is so le mad right now xDDDDDDDDDDDD upboats to the left

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>>20569220
>OU legal
*VGC

People constantly top the OU ladder with weird shit. Plenty of tourney players can top it with basically whatever they want.

Meta trends like Alomomola gaining popularity and people using defensive Y-zard happen.

A total of 116 different pokemon were used in WCoP.

I don't exactly get what you people are saying.

>>20569269
You're right. They're busy forming their own shitty meta by banning everything they don't like.

OU went to shit after the Genesect ban and every other tier fell to a shitty powercreep. The only enjoyable tier is RU and even that is standardized.

>>20569785
Are you one of those fags who seriously think Genesect kept HO in check?

I'm just gonna let you know that it's not March anymore, and both Deo forms are b&

>>20568938
Fuck off PK

>>20569822
You're right.

It's August and now we're seeing every Mega slowly getting banned and genies taking over. Wonderful meta.

>>20569785
Genesect was cancer.

Here's everything that's been banned so far:

>Mega Mom, Mega Gengar, Mega Luke
Broken pieces of shit. You know how people say Gamefreak only balances for doubles? Well here's some good examples.
>Blaziken, Deo-N/D/S, Genesect
All former ubers who should never have been let down. Blaziken is broken. Deo-N is broken. Deo-D/S is cancer. Genesect is cancer.
>Swagger/Baton Pass teams
"Muh competitiveness" bullshit that, at the very least, did not hurt the health of the meta
>Aegislash
WOW LOOK one questionable ban. One. That Haunter explicitly said "I am totally in favor of retesting this."

>>20569948
And all this is attributed to Genesect ban? Okay.

>every Mega slowly getting banned
Dude the last mega to get banned was Luke and that was over six months ago.

Genies are cancer though and should get suspected.

>>20570070
>Buzzwords
>Buzzwords everywhere

>>20570070
>Genesect is cancer
Good argument.
>I don't like it!!
>Ban! Ban! Ban!

>Dude the last mega to get banned was Luke and that was over six months ago
Hence "slowly"

Once M-Mawile gets banned (yes, I'm saying once it happens) expect some shit like M-Pinsir or the Zards to be suspected.

>>20567146
seriously i hear a bunch of random pokemon get to the top 20 on smogon ladder. my friend got 9th with a fucking flareon and recently i heard someone got top 5 with a pangoro.

>>20570070
aegislash was deal able but his existence made a lot of pokemon unusable. with him being banned the floodgates of pokemon that don't have to deal with his shit anymore should flow in.

>>20569151
He made this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=872IxzeupAk
And then Smogon went ape shit on him.

>>20570070
>Aegislash
>Questionable
>50/50: The Mon

>>20570204
it sounds like they ban whatever is strongest at the time, then when the second or third strongest takes top place/gains in usage, they ban it as well because it got too strong since its checks/counters were taken away, and the cycle continues until every damn mega and a few regulars are banned

are my observations correct

>>20570413
for the most part

the main thing is they didn't even let the meta settle before banning shit

>>20570396
There's no RNG involved. It's called prediction, and it's the basis of the entire game. Get good.

Aegislash is more competitive than crits, and Smogon has yet to ban those 6 generations in.

>>20570186
I'm sorry, did you want me to write an essay of why Genesect is cancer?
>free muhmentum whenever it's on the field
>VoltTurnVoltTurnVoltTurnVoltTurn
>no prediction required
>dozens of sets
>le e-belt ruse
>checks lots of things (you know, like any stronger scarfer) so it fools people into thinking it's actually good to have

Gosh we can totally have a meta with Genesect, because the reason to ban it boils down to "we don't like having it." I guess we shouldn't ban the genies, either, even then practically everyone dislikes them and feels they have a negative impact on the meta. Hey let's bring down Reshiram, too, cause I mean the only reason it's banned is because people wouldn't like it if it were allowed.

>Hence "slowly"
Six months inbetween bans is pretty damn slow. By the time gen 7 comes, at this rate we'd have banned, what, four additional megas max?

And I'll just let you know now that X-zard is the one remaining mega that has any chance of being banned. Mawile has been on the table for some months, now. I'm not saying more won't be suspected, but it's very, very unlikely they'll ever end up being banned. While Y-zard and Pinsir are strong, they're one of those strong things that have a number of good counters and no real way to get around those counters, unlike Mawile, as well as numerous checks making them easy to revenge kill. Oh and pebbles weakness.

>>20570413
>are my observations correct
No

>>20570467
It is a literal guessing game that is always in favor of the Aegislash user.

>>20570247
The higher the ladder the more unique the teams are, believe it or not.

I'd imagine they were okay with it considering Smogon supports all tiers and metagames even if their main focus is on OU.

>>20570468
>free muhmentum whenever it's on the field
>VoltTurnVoltTurnVoltTurnVoltTurn
Oh, you mean the strategy that died with Gen V? Yep, very good reason.

>no prediction required
>dozens of sets
Both of these are just plain wrong.

>so it fools people into thinking it's actually good to have
So are you for or against the ban?

How can you not see how fucking stale OU got after the Genesect ban? Do you even play OU?

>>20570665
>Oh, you mean the strategy that died with Gen V? Yep, very good reason.
Do YOU even play OU? VoltTurn was very good, mainly because Genesect was so good and scared out every other pokemon.

>Both of these are just plain wrong.
Scarf
Band
Specs
E-Belt
Life Orb
Shift Gear

And then all the variations of them, depending on what coverage moves it was running. Dozens is an exaggeration but that's a lot of sets.

No prediction is also an exaggeration, but it always had a safe move in U-Turn, which I guess it true of anything with U-Turn. Still, it was very mindless to use.

>So are you for or against the ban?
For. It checked a lot of things but this can be said of things like Scarfed Terrakion. Overall I don't think it was okay to keep in OU.

>How can you not see how fucking stale OU got after the Genesect ban?
It was stale because Deosharp became a thing. And now Deosharp is not a thing, and the tier is actually quite diverse right now.

>>20567146
>>20570247
>>20570595
sssssh you'll ruin /vp/'s anti-smogon circlejerk

>>20570854
>was
Mmmhm.

>and the tier is actually quite diverse right now
>Genie Genie Bellydrum Talonflame Chancey
It's stale as all hell.

If you ask me Talonflame is what has simplified OU

>>20570882
It's been what, three years now? Why can't /vp/ just let it go?

>>20567057
>Being this autistic

Smogon tiers are defined by usage not actual viability in battle, and smogon never stated otherwise. Do you even know how polls work?

Smogon OU aren't necessarily the strongest pokemon, they would be the easiest to use if anything

>>20569948
>all megas are being banned
Guess what 4 megas have been banned.....name one that was a bad idea. This argument pisses me off more than anything else, the only megas that have been tested or banned are fucking broken.
The only other megas that haven't been tested in OU
Zard X: Maybe in the future but I doubt iy
Zard Y: Yeah.....no
Pinsr: sneaky pebbles and Manectric say hi
Manectric: It's good not great
Medicham and Heracross: Birdspam sends their regards
Garde: Scizor
Scizor: Nope
Venu: hahahahahahahaha
Chomp and Tyranitar: checked by a ton of shit so I doubt it
so banning all megas eh?

>>20569253
>solid defensive typing and bulk
>tailwind
>feint
>taunt
>sturdy + counter
>stealth rock in a meta where no one accounts for hazards

it's more niche than other support mons, but skarmory definitely has its uses - in many ways, it's a slower, bulkier aerodactyl

>>20569220
Three. Other two are Lucario and Furret.

>>20569253
>>implying Skarmory is viable in doubles
It's like you've never even heard of SkarmBliss.

>>20568999
Except Torkoal bombed. Last year, and I saw someone using Torkoal this year getting his ass handed to him by Sejun

>>20570361
>that sweatshirt
>wearing a collar

>>20571146
Pokemon because nintendo made them good you reddit atuist

>>20570361
>typhlosion onesie
I want to cringe but he's 2cute.

>>20570361
The Typhlosion outfit and collar are sort of... eh... to look at, but he's got a point.

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>giving even an iota of a fuck what smogon says/does

If you don't like it, don't think about it. Why do you do this to yourself?

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>>20571146
this
OU mons are OU because they get splashed into teams that need their role filled.
UU mons are UU because they get put in teams where they work and have synergy with their partners.
of course, even half of smogon thinks OU are the only good mons, and use them exclusively. That's why their ban lists are so convoluted, nobody thinks to make strategies with UU mons that could check what most of OU can't.
the community filled up with retards pretty quick since they started.

>>20569220
>Amoonguss is generally the better re-director but everyone is prepared for it.
Amoonguss would be if Game Freak didn't hit Rage Powder and Stun Spore hard by making Safety Goggles and buffing the Grass type.

>>20570320
Aegislash ban means Mega Metagross will be good when ORAS comes out.

>>20575436
they did that specifically because amoonguss was on almost every team at past VGCs

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>>20575472
Exactly.
>mfw tumblrfags are praising pachirisu as being the strongest pokemon ever without knowing how and why it worked
This is gonna be the new fucking Helix Fossil, isn't it?

>>20575526
Honestly, I'm a big proponent for tiers not being huge on viability. Basically, exactly what >>20574317 said; tiers are usage only and nothing more.

But you need to PLAY a pokemon to it's advantages, and in a lot of cases, a Pokemon will be simply and outright out-classed. Pachirisu worked because it had Follow Me (a very rare move), and Nuzzle, (which paralyzes and breaks sashes in one turn). It was played for the small niche it had and, granted, was played very well and utilized accordingly, but this does NOT mean that "hurr any pokemon can b good if u luv it enuff xD" shit.

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attention whores who care too much about smogon, while the latter seriously doesn't give a fuck.

>>20575565
>But you need to PLAY a pokemon to it's advantages, and in a lot of cases, a Pokemon will be simply and outright out-classed. Pachirisu worked because it had Follow Me (a very rare move), and Nuzzle, (which paralyzes and breaks sashes in one turn).
Not just that, the Volt Absorb is synergistic with Gyarados and Follow Me, and Super Fang is also a deceptively good move on a supportmon.

>>20575620
Right right, definitely. I was more outlining what made Pachirisu specifically unique. It is a combination of all of those things though, yeah.

Super Fang is a great move, people really overlook it. Halving the foes health for free on a Pokemon with no investment is huge for maintaing offensive presence, especially in Doubles.

giving you a head's up right now. as someone who played competitively for three years, when you start following smogon's mess of a tier system you'll come to find fun's being sucked out of you.

>>20575982
I played OU for a long time also.

Dropped it after the aegislash ban, now I play VGC doubles. It's so much better than any smogon format.

>>20576019
>Dropped it after the aegislash ban
Baby want his bottle?

>>20576026
;^) stay mad shill

>>20575586
Smogon went full defensive and hysteric mode afer Verlisify or anyone who dares to question them. But if it is what smogonfags prefer to believe...

>>20576037
I just personally dislike Aegislash as a whole because he makes Honedge/Doublade feel like complete filler.

>>20576044
To be fair, Verlisify is a fucking retard.

>>20576026
>I'm a fucking faggot

We get it anon.

>>20570361
What a lot of people like him don't realize is that Smogon tries to create a field that's as competitive (by which I mean skill-based) as possible, while not having a Meta built around one thing or counters to that one thing (Mega Kang).
There is stuff that *needs* banned, without question (Speed Boost/Mega Blazekin), and while I don't agree with all of their rules, I'd rather have Smogon Rules than TPCi or No rules at all because
a) as I said, some things are just stupid OP
b) I don't enjoy doubles

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>threads dedicated to how mad people are about smogon

lol could you be any more embarrassing, I don't even play competitive pokemon and its like if you don't play smogon rules, you're obsessed with smogon

>>20570361

>Nintendo's official rules
>Better than Smogons
>"Because they made the game, they clearly know how it works"

Fallacy
He doesn't play real competitive games, devs are notorious for not knowing how to structure their own competitive rules

>>20576044
>this is what verlisify's buttbuddies actually believe
This is Houston speaking, can you confirm a visual on anon's sides?

>"B-but they made the game!! That means they are the best battlers in the world and their rules are best r-right?"

How ignorant can you be, I mean if you're a child its understandable but

>>20570396
>>20570545


>MODS MODS MODS this pokemon can use 2 different sets and I don't like this whole "thinking" thing, ban pls

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nobody in this thread understands

smogon is okay

smogonfags aren't

endo

>>20567146
It reminds me of people bitching about Smash Bros Melee tourney players because they supposedly only use the space animals.

>>20570396
>pokemon can use two different sets

BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT

>>20570070
>"Muh competitiveness" bullshit that, at the very least, did not hurt the health of the meta
>He doesn't run at least one taunt user.

>>20570468
>>no prediction required
>>dozens of sets

>Preferring one centralized set/centralized meta where every set is the same

Go back to the Smogon forums Haunter

>>20577320
Mixed, sub toxic, special fast, physical fast, ks 3 attacks, sub 3 attacks, bulky sd, fast sd, head smash lure, autotomize wp
Not to mention that thing has the most ridiculous stats in both offense and defense. Name me one counter in singles (do yourself a favor and look up what a counter is first) and we can talk.

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>>20576019
>vgc
>better than smogon doubles

i'm honestly interested to know how anyone could actually think this was true

>>20577414
It's more the fact that if you guess the set wrong you lose your initial counter without any backdraw for the opponent. Remember that hp ground genesect lure set (probably not because you are a sub 1400 shitter) - initial switchin heatran comes in - 2hkoed - switch out on the uturn - no backdraw for the opponent, you lose shit. Now let's say you predict that set and go to your gliscor because it walls that specific set - well guess what he was ebelt with ice beam instead. The huge variety of sets turns counters into shacky checks and mere switchins. It's easy to prepare for a mon with 2 sets, even 4 or 5 sets, it's impossible to prepare for a mon with 6-10 viable sets (like gene or aegis)

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This was my face when I realized that the majority of the "pokémon community" are aspies, as seen from the crowd.

But yet they seemed so happy.
Also the pachirisu will be the new ebin helix fossil meme and every other kid will use pachirisu on their team and the ebin le meme internet/pokemon culture will reference this many times.

Pokémon is a game where you should use your creativity, but instead we see the copypastateams everywhere, with slight changes.

The pachirisu was great, since it caught many off guard, too bad it's once in a life time moment of using an surpirise element like that.

>>20578197
Well one rule set allows a person to compete for money and have the chance to be exposed to millions.

The other rule set nets you a number.

Hmmm....

/vp/ hates smogon for stupid reasons

>>20577320
>>20577414
As opposed to popular belief, shit never gets banned for having too many sets. Like I think Infernape has six different sets but it's not even good. And Clefable has like a dozen sets but it's not broken.

When something simultaneously has multiple of the following traits...

>is really strong
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 243-288 (71.2 - 84.4%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Rain: 406-478 (119 - 140.1%)

>too bulky to reliably revenge kill, or simply too fast
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lucario: 168-200 (59.7 - 71.1%)
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 314-372 (81.9 - 97.1%)

>has strong priority
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 235-277 (65 - 76.7%)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 165-195 (45.7 - 54%)

>has multiple sets or can lure in its counters and get rid of them without support
0- SpA Life Orb Bisharp Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 255-302 (64.7 - 76.6%)

>breaks Stall
Gothitelle

>requires next to zero support to do its job
Plenty of stuff

...it's at least worth looking in to. There are things that are bulkier, faster, stronger, have stronger priority, require less support, have more sets, and break stall harder than things that have been banned, but when you have something this is strong AND bulky/fast AND has strong priority AND breaks stall AND doesn't need any support AND HAS MULTIPLE SETS, you have something that's maybe a tad too strong for the meta.

I don't get why people think smogon hates shit that has multiple sets. But keep shitposting.

>>20578360
>0- SpA Life Orb Bisharp Grass Knot
Did you misclick something or is this really a common coverage move on a -SpA build?

>>20578452
It's a lure. It's purpose is to 2HKO Quagsire, that's its only purpose and it can do that with a negative nature. It's not the best example because running Grass Knot on Bisharp makes it less effective and is only good for counterteaming, but the point is there's a lot of stuff that can change up its counters by running different moves or have unpredictable coverage (e.g. HP Fire vs. HP Grass Greninja,) and they're not broken.

>>20578327
that's nice, but since the post i quoted mentioned swapping to vgc from smogon ou i'm assuming they're still playing on sims, for enjoyment rather than money

let me rephrase: is there anyone who seriously thinks that, with regards to gameplay and gameplay only, the vgc format is better than smogon doubles??

>>20578487
Doesn't it 2HKO Hippo aswell which would wall the fuck out of physical sets?

>>20578562
Hippo actually has decent special bulk, is only 2x weak and a lot of sets will run a lot of SDef EVs cause it's better at taking on electric-type special attackers than strong physical attackers.

>>20578326
>The pachirisu was great, since it caught many off guard, too bad it's once in a life time moment of using an surpirise element like that.

What? Shit like this happens every time in competitive play. I'm talking about both VGC and Smogon

People are only surprised because cute Pikachu mon

Go back fight your elite 4

>>20570070
>blaziken
>broken
talonflame resists both of his stabs, and can one shot with brave bird, and since it has priority speed boost doesn't mean shit. choice band azumarril can 2hko it with aqua jet, while blaziken (unboosted) can only 3hko it at best

>>20578766
>choice band azumarril can 2hko it with aqua jet
Man, a 2HKO on something that naturally gains boosts AND learns Baton Pass.
You only listed one counter there.

>>20578766
>it has two checks so this means it's not broken
It not only has incredible dual STABs, great offenses, a wide movepool with high-powered STABs and tons of coverage+Knock Off, Speed Boost, Swords Dance and Bulk Up, but it also has that whole Speed Boost+Baton Pass thing which is sort of a big deal (getting speed boost shot Scolipede up from NU to OU.)

>>20567251
>>20567251
This. Blind ignorant whiny hate

"OMG I HATE SMOGON I HATE IT I HATE IT WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

Why

"BECAUSE MY STUPID IGNORANT REASONS IN MY FUCKED UP DUMB BELIEF SYSTEM THAT FUNCTIONS ON NOTHING BUT WHINY BITCH ASSUMPTIONS WAHHHHH"

>>20570361
>collar
>typhlosion onsie

Is this really what yall niggas be on? He has to fap to pokelewds, there is no shadow of a doubt.

>>20578878
You're just as bad as those Smogon haters

>>20578878

Alright, aspie, time for a time out.

>>20578521

Smogon's a fucking joke

>>20578766
>252+ Atk Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 228 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 204-242 (51.2 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>252+ Atk Blaziken Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 224-264 (75.4 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
>252+ Atk Blaziken Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 596-704 (200.6 - 237%) -- guaranteed OHKO

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>>20581402
that's exactly the response i expected, thanks

>>20578766
Talonflame is a check, not a counter.

>>20569108
>A game balanced around doubles has more diversity in doubles than it does in singles

>A game is better played in its intended format than other formats, even if they're more popular than said intended format

next you'll tell me Pichu is the most OP character in SSBM because its great at Break the Targets

>>20583733
>Pokemon
>balanced around doubles

>>20577296
I mean, most tourneys do boil down to Fox, Falco, Captain Falcon and sometimes Donkey Kong.

>>20583748
Except it is.
Game Freak honestly couldn't care less about Smogon, they just care about the VGC.

>>20583756
>I mean, most tourneys do boil down to Fox, Falco, Captain Falcon and sometimes Donkey Kong.
I was under the impression that DK was a trash-tier character in Melee.
Are you sure you actually watch the tournaments?
I see Jigglypuff more often than either Captain Falcon or DK.

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>>20583789
>defog buff
>weather nerf
>Roar/Whirlwind buffs
>Prankster/Assist/Roar nerf

GF doesn't care about VGC, TPCI does. Singeplayer is still 99% of the game, battlespot singles is twice as popular as every other format combined, VGC doesn't even have a dedicated ladder online.

>>20583748
>Parental Bond doesnt activate on moves that hit multiple targets (earthquake)
>Mega Audino gets Healer, Sceptile is LightningRod
>Mega Lucario exists
>Blaziken in general
>Sand teams in doubles
>Water/Fire/Grass Pledge
>Florges
>Zygarde's signature move
etc.
etc.

There's countless pieces of evidence. The game is not intended for Singles Play or designed around it AT ALL except for the in-game shitmons.

Note: Gale Wings is post-game only, so it doesnt have to be balanced for story level of play, as no opponent will ever be using it nor will the player have access to it pre-E4. And the head of the battle team stated that XY were designed so that players can go straight into Battle Spot as soon as they beat the E4, which is why they made breeding so much faster. Less time spent between main game and post-game multiplayer

>>20583939
Whats the last one? I can read the others

>>20584087
Singes/Doubles/Triple/Rotation/Special

>>20584133
Oh Special, I tought it was Super something. Thanks

>>20584037
The Earthquake change is really the only thing that is actually balance related, and you can see how well that worked out for them.

If the rest is supposed to be evidence of something, it's that GF is absolute shit at balance. It's easier to point that out in Singles since there are so many strategies that are more powerful there, but VGC is just proof that left to its own devices Doubles is as shit as singles in terms of balance.

>>20584230
Sand Teams work better in doubles because you can abuse and set it at the same time, plus TTar's pursuit is more useful.
Audino-M, Sceptile-M, Land's Wrath, and Florges are all completely useless outside of Doubles, with Audino-M and the pledges pretty much worthless in singles too. Klefki is meant for doubles as well with Prankster spikes + dual screen
As for GF being shit at balance, its because they dont have 20,000 people balancing it nor do they make constant patches to fix the problems the fanbase discovers, because that means changing how something works in the game itself, even outside of Competitive. That and they've never had the opportunity to put out patches before so its something they shy away from

>>20570467

Prediction doesn't guarantee wins unless the opponent always behaves the way you predict, which they don't have to do with Aegislash, because it can hardly be KOd by anything. I suggest reading through the old suspect test thread if you're still clinging to the competitive argument. They are indeed 50/50s and no amount of skill will increase your chances of coming out on top.

>>20570595

So untrue it hurts.

>Literally every team has either M-Venusaur or Amoonguss, the only exception being hyper offense teams.
>Keldeo and genies most likely on 75% of teams you encounter.
>denisSsS disciple-faggots yipping at the chance to test out whatever new team he's come up with and swelling the upper ladder with that cancer.
>The odd Sand or Rain team, and even then they always have the same fucking staples: Politoed, Kingdra, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Hippowdon, Ferrothorn.

I've spectated a shitload of high-rank matches and the weirdest thing I saw was Infernape.

>>20584313
>plus TTar's pursuit is more useful

What? Not only do people switch out a fraction of the time as Singles but they also have Protect to scout and TTar has to target the correct Pokemon.

Weather is still almost as good as it was pre-nerf, whereas Singles has gone from weather wars to mostly weatherless. The nerf was a far bigger game changer

>Audino-M, Sceptile-M, Land's Wrath, and Florges are all completely useless outside of Doubles

Doubles Audinos use Regenerator as well, Healer is a shit ability everywhere. Lightningrod hasn't been useless in dubs since B/W. Zygarde isn't even allowed in any VGC format. Florges is still a bulky as shit wall in singles, its abilities aren't much more useful in doubles and it'll lose any relevance as soon as Sylveon gets Hyper Voice tutors.

>Klefki is meant for doubles as well with Prankster spikes + dual screen

The fuck would anyone use spikes in doubles

>As for GF being shit at balance, its because they dont have 20,000 people balancing

You don't need 20,000 people to know that Nidoking should get +10 to its SpA, not its attack. GF is just shit at balance period, doubles is inherently less broken than singles but any idea that it's GF's holy grail is retarded when they don't know shit and don't even bother to support it in-game outside of a handful of moves/abilities.

>>20584313
Florges isn't even good in doubles, Healer as a whole is bad too and who uses Spikes in doubles?

ITT: Butthurt faggots that know nothing about competitive so they take it out on smogo.
You act like Smogon is one person who bans stuff after he loses to it when in reality its the best players in the community voting on it.

God you faggots are annoying.

>Inb4 lel umad feg XD

Get a better argument. Show me calcs that prove shit isn't broken.

>>20586363
>>20586363
>best players in the community
>Smogon
Ha.
No.
The best players in the community are the ones on the top of Link Battles, and in the VGC, the ones that don't give a shit about Smogon.
>Show me calcs that prove shit isn't broken.
Burden of proof, Smogon should have to prove that their awful tiers are anything but arbitrary shit, and that their bans are anything but a horde of whiny fags bitching whenever they get beaten fair and square.

>>20578360

>Infernape
>Not good

Shit opinion summarily discarded. Infernape is good in UU and OU. At the very least it walls the fuck out of Bisharp and Mega Scizor in OU, and it's a top threat in UU.

>>20567057
Implying that smogon isn't the one that encourages such pokemon to be used thanks to tiering.

doubles are for faggots anyhow.

>>20586987
Speaking of whiny bitch.

People actually enjoy using other pokemon than aegislash, talonflame, garchomp, rotomwash, gliscor, hydreigon, blaziken, licario, kangaskan and greninja. Without these pokemon in a non tier environment you are fucked. Smogon solves that by implementing tiers that don't force you to have a mind numbingly dull team every damn time.

>>20587460
git gud

>>20587643
Hydreigon? Who uses Hydreigon?

>>20581507
>Blaziken can carry 6 moves

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DOWN WITH SMOGON
DOWN WITH SMOGON
DOWN WITH SMOGON

>>20586987
This was one of the dumbest things ive read.

You completely ignored the fact that I wanted calcs (because you cant provide any), and the top part is kek.

>>20576704
Exactly this.

Although there are games that have been made that the devs intended competitive play.

>>20587643
And if you play Link Battles, and play in VGC, you see shitloads of other pokes. In fact, I'd say that the teams are more diverse there, because people are able to use all 700+ Pokemon, instead of being forced into using COMPLETELY ARBITRARY tiers that are broken beyond repair. And to add to that, banning Pokemon doesn't fix anything, it only makes the problem worse because not only does it reduce the number of strategies that you can use, effectively squashing any kind of originality, it simply replaces one overpowered move/Pokemon with another, which then becomes banned, in a neverending cycle.
To top it all off, it is the opinion of just about everyone at Smogon that all of the bans and tiers and everything have to be used because the game is broken, not their system, despite it being nothing but a circlejerk of asspain, because every fucking ban comes down to people crying over the fact that they keep losing to something, without ever even taking into consideration the multitude of ways to work around strategies.
But no, Gamefreak is just a shitty developer that doesn't know what they're doing.
Fuck do I wish Masuda had half the balls that Sakurai did.

>>20587984
Did you drop out of high school, or is the school system so shit now that they don't teach the slightest basic foundation in real logic? Do you even fucking know what "Burden of Proof" means?

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>>20568938
>playing the game
>a battle simulator that strips everything away from the true experience of actually playing the game

>>20588228
>forced
Shut the fuck up, retard.

>>20588285
In a location set to smogon singles, there are a set amount of Pokemon that you are forcibly denied access to.

>>20588285
The whole point of the tiers is to stop people from using hundreds of Pokemon for arbitrary reasons. Or does force have a different meaning in stupid? I only speak English and German.

>>20588329
smogon tiers do not forcibly "stop people from using hundreds of Pokemon for arbitrary reasons", so it seems you're quite fluent in stupid. you're able to use anything below OU in the OU tier. unless you want to argue that people only use a small subset of pokemon with any degree of consistency, in which case i'd like you to look at every pokemon metagame ever.

>>20588507
And yet most people in Smogon play UU only, and they insist that it's the most 'competitive.'

>>20588329
>The whole point of the tiers is to stop people from using hundreds of Pokemon for arbitrary reasons

Literally kill yourself

>>20588709
The tiers are literally defined by usage, having nothing to do with stats. And then, when a Pokemon like Meditite is found to be overpowered for its arbitrary tier, it's banned completely instead of being moved up, because Smogon's tiers are perfect and Gamefreak should base the game around them.

>>20588518
Because most people dont have the brain capacity to build a pokemon and/or a team for their special snowflake pokemon that can effectively take down a team of copy-paste. So to feel cool with their special snowflake team, they go to uu

>>20578521
me, if only because it doesn't have any genie or cress cancer

>>20588228
>VGC
>all 700 pokemon
there are only ~220 fully evolved pokemon that are even legal, and did you even watch worlds? EVERY fucking team had a garchomp on it

>>20589053
More like there are just different threats and someone's shitty special snowflake special will be able to handle the big threats of UU better than OU because they are inherently weaker pokemon to deal with.

>>20588900
>Smogon's tiers are perfect and Gamefreak should base the game around them

...is that what smogonfags really think or is it bait?

I'm confused, are there really people that dumb?

>>20590894
it's what smogon USERS think at least, the head honchos at smogon couldn't give two shits

>>20590910
Yeah, I ment those idiots who follow what Smogon says brainlessly. I can imagine that the guys who manage Smogon just do their shit and don't care what thir flock does.

Verlisify is one of few people who openly dislike smogays. Just because of this I will like every one of his videos.

>>20590926
>giving a retard attention

>>20590938
In comparison smogon is way more retarded.

Everyone on here acts like smogon is the law. Why the fuck does it matter if one person plays smogon and one doesn't. This arguement is wasted on something that doesn't affect anyone. If you think the tiers are bullshit don't use them! If you are tired of the same pokemon again and again use smogon in a different tier. Simple as shit!

>>20590926
Is that the furfag who believes that spamming minimize is fair play?

An entire thread full of grown men bitching about how they can't git gud at Pokemon because some community told them they couldn't do something. Never change /vp/.

>>20594784
ye

>>20588518
UU is actually a fantastic tier though. Lot's of viable pokemon and playstyles

>>20595237
>UU is actually a fantastic tier though. Lot's of viable pokemon and playstyles
OH MAN
I SURE DO LOVE STALL
AND ANYTHING THAT CAN BREAK STALL GETTING BANNED IN A HEARTBEAT

>>20595272
>A tier is slightly less offensive in nature than OU
>"STALLFAGGOTS LELELE"

>>20595272
smogon loving stall is the main thing discouraging me from playing in any of their main tiers

smogdubs 4ever

>>20595317
>UU: The Team
>Chesnaught, Slowbro, Florges, Blissey
>not stall
Kokoloko pls go.

>>20594784
Minimize is a legit strategy. Not carrying at least one stat resetter/phazer is your fault.

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>>20588228
>arbitrary tiers
>forced to use OU Pokemon
>banning Pokemon reduces originality
>GF not complete shit at balance
>Smogon only bans what it can't beat! :^)

It's like baby's first Smogon fallacies

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>>20595370
>Chesnaught on UU:the team
Chesnaught is garbage in UU since the best offensive threats are fire or flying (in the cast of Aerodactyl). Hell, even Florges is quickly falling out of favor since Blissey does the special wall thing better while defensive Aromatisse does almost everything Florges does as a fairy but better.

UU the team would be Victini/Infernape, Blissey, Blastoise, Hydreigon, something with rocks, and Lucario.

>>20595462
Florges actually has offensive presence, a useful immunity and its weaknesses are rare as shit and easy to deal with. It's not going out of style any time soon.

>>20595430
>arbitrary tiers
The tiers are literally based on popularity.
>forced to use OU Pokemon
More like forced to not use OU, Uber, or BL pokemon.
>banning Pokemon reduces originality
But it does you retard, every ingenious new strategy that can steamroll all of the old ones is banned, instead of people trying to think of ways around it, and as a result, Smogon's metagame essentially limits every pokemon to only one or two strategies, and completely stagnates the game.
>GF not complete shit at balance
>"Have you ever made a game?"
Smogon's idea of "balance" is even worse than Meleefags'
>Smogon only bans what it can't beat! :^)
Explain Swagger and Minimize.

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>>20595404
>evasion spam
>legit strategy

God, it was so easy to discuss competitive before all the underage/reddit/tumblr came flooding in for XY. Nobody understands how Smogon works and you can't talk about teambuilding or general questions about tiers or certain Pokemon without some shitter going all >LE PLAYING BY SMOGONS RULES LEL

People need to actually understand how Smogon works before shitting all over it.

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>>20600981
Gen 6 hasn't been very good for the board.

>>20600981
/vp/'s been anti-smogon for as long as I remember, and I've been here pretty close since the beginning, when Moot had those two stickies up. I do agree that /vp/ is fucking shit at discussing competitive, though. Even Reddit's better at that than /vp/. There's a reason why Smogon's founder did a Q&A there and not /vp/.

>>20600909
>Status changing move
>Legit strategy

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>>20602341
>Luck based
>"strategy"

>>20602555
So... ban all moves that don't have a 100% chance to hit, because then it's just luck based.

>>20602821
Hydro Pump, Focus Blast, etc. don't rely on luck. You're just getting more power (as opposed to Surf/Scald) or better coverage (as opposed to HP Ground/Fire) at the cost of a chance to be screwed by the RNG. It's not a luck-based strategy, as it doesn't rely on luck to win even if there's an RNG involved.

Evasion, on the other hand, relies on luck to avoid hits you wouldn't normally be able to take. It's blatantly a luck based strategy.

>>20603161
>More power at the cost of a CHANCE to be screwed by the RANDOM number generator
It is literally the same thing, only minimize actually gives you a better chance if you max evasion.
If you use say, Thunder, you are relying completely on luck for it to hit. If you use any move with a secondary effect, you are relying completely on luck for it to take effect. The only difference is Minimize flusters the sentient mass of crybabies called Smogon, because they get beaten with it and they don't want to bother working around it.

>>20575526
>implying tumblrfags aren't just happy that a rarely used Pokémon won champion

Don't be so fucking retarded, it's not a new meme. People have always and will always root for the underdog and be happy when they win.

>>20603362
>If you use say, Thunder, you are relying completely on luck for it to hit.
Which is nice and all, but nothing particularly crippling (as compared to giving out free turns like candy to your opponent because your moves keep missing) will happen if you get hit by a lower acc. move as opposed to a 100% acc. but less powerful move. Specs Kingdra Surf in Rain or Specs Kingra Hydro Pump in rain: both hurt like sin.

>If you use any move with a secondary effect, you are relying completely on luck for it to take effect
>you are relying
>RELYING
No you're not. No one 'relies' on Flamethrower to BRN. No one 'relies' on Ice Beam to FRZ. Just because the RNG can just randomly decide to screw over one or the other player doesn't mean you're abusing luck. Like I think Scald is the only real luck-based move, but, as a singular move, there are ways around it with status absorbers, special attackers, Lum berry, and clerics.

>The only difference is Minimize flusters the sentient mass of crybabies called Smogon, because they get beaten with it and they don't want to bother working around it.
Gosh, if you could tell me how to fit in whatever could handle most evasion users (I'll give you a hint: it's not no-miss moves and it's not phazing) while ALSO having a gameplan for Mega Mawile, Mega X-zard, Mega Pinsir, Keldeo, Terrakion, Mega Gyaraods, Mega Tyranitar, Sand Rush Excadrill, Landorus, Thundurus, Azumarill, Garchomp, Greninja, Talonflame, Dragonite, Mega Venusaur, Mega Garde, Mega Cham, Mega Hera, Lando-T, Breloom, Mamoswine, and Bisharp, and not even counting all the less dangerous/common threats (as well as defensive threats) that are liable to screw you over should you ever face a team with it.

>>20603362
>>20603965
You know, maybe if this was ADV OU where it was just a circle-jerk of maybe 30 viable (not OU: just viable) pokemon, I would not have a problem with handling evasion because the pressure on teambuilding was not as high. But in XY where we have these ridiculously powerful pokemon and strategies, and many of them, to the point where it's exceedingly hard or even downright impossible to account for all of them? And you really think it's reasonable to ALSO have to take into account strategies that don't rely on good teambuilding, predictions or plays, but just fucking RNG? Why?

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>>20598909
>The tiers are literally based on popularity
Well it's based on usage above a certain threshold. There's a reason they don't use 00 stats anymore. There isn't a better way to categorize power when even democratic suspect tests take forever and are highly contested by people who think Furfrou is M-Gengar counter or Slurpuff is a M-Kanga counter.

>More like forced to not use OU, Uber, or BL pokemon.
In UU and below? That's kind of the point of UU. If you want to use all balanced Pokemon play OU, the lower tiers are for letting underdogs shine when top threats are removed.

>every ingenious new strategy that can steamroll all of the old ones is banned
If a strategy is so powerful that it can beat all others, then people only use that strategy and the meta becomes stale since no one uses anything else. The Aegislash ban ended up causing a bunch of other Pokemon to rise up in the ranks of OU because it was holding down the viability of a lot of mons simply by being a defining threat of the meta.

>Explain Swagger and Minimize.
Luck-based strategies. I mean, SwagPlay is entirely possible to beat, but you have to PP stall out all 6 Pokemon on the swagplay team. Which as you might guess, is not exactly fun or good for the meta.

I mean, do you really think that competitive players, who are only in it to win, are not going to use what's strongest? Top ladder players were abusing the shit out of Deoxys and Genesect, but they still voted to ban it. Because the point of competition is to win so if a strategy is obviously stronger then you switch to it. And that's what happens when something like M-Kanga is allowed in the metagame, you get usage rates of 40+% and anyone who doesn't use it has to build their team specifically to counter it.

>Smogon is so dumb i'm way better at balancing this game than a hive mind community working 24/7 for years to balance pokemon

>>20603977
>You know, maybe if this was ADV OU where it was just a circle-jerk of maybe 30 viable (not OU: just viable) pokemon,

Eww, as someone who used to play Gen 3 back in the day, it wasn't that centralized when it came to viable mons. Even back then evasion abuse has been banned. Shit, it's been banned since the days of Gen 1, predating even Smogon. Even Smogon's competitors such as PokeRealm (R.I.P.) and Pokemon Online have evasion banned. Really, any competitive ruleset that goes on will inevitably ban evasion abuse in singles, because it's that ridiculous of a strategy.

>>20604196
Okay: 30 mons worth using.

>>20600909
>>20602555
Yes it is faglord. It was made by gamefreak therefore it's 100% OK to use.

>banning Aegislash
>banning Swagger
>banning BATON PASS
Smogon a shit.
You're a faggot and need to get gud if you can't handle this.
Deal with it.

>>20603965
>>20603977
>>20604068
>nothing particularly crippling (as compared to giving out free turns like candy to your opponent because your moves keep missing
Which is the point essentially, of the move minimize, to get extra turns. There are plenty of moves that do the same, just in differing ways, and they're considered fine despite relying on luck the same way, like Thunder Wave and Spore.
People rely on Air Strike to Flinch, people rely on moves like Focus Punch to land, and people rely on Focus Band to save them, all of which essentially boil down to luck.
>it's not no-miss moves and it's not phazing
Well why the fuck not?
Lock On, Taunt, Stomp, Steamroller, Body Slam, Dragon Rush, Flying Press, and Phantom Force all fuck up Minimize.
>usage above a certain threshold
So, popularity.
>If you want to use all balanced Pokemon play OU
See >>20588518
>then people only use that strategy and the meta becomes stale since no one uses anything else
People only fall into a rut with the strategy if they are completely uncreative, and cannot think of any other strategy, which I suppose is what happens with Smogon, which is why Smogon's meta is painfully stale. In the real world however, outside of the circlejerk of bitching, when a new strategy comes along that steamrolls everything before it, people come up with new strategies to counter and check it, and suddenly you have more and more possibilities as time goes on, because people are given free reign. New strategies come into being because they CAN overtake old ones, that's the point, it's progress. If you instead ban every new strategy, you halt progress completely, and then you have a metagame centralized around one or two strategies, that change to an even older one upon each one getting banned.
Which is what Smogon is.
>>20604093
>Game Freak is so dumb, a forum full of whiny kids is way better at balancing a game they understand nothing about than the fucking designers of the game.

>>20604364
>people rely on Focus Band to save them
No they don't.

>>20604364
>Lock On, Taunt, Stomp, Steamroller, Body Slam, Dragon Rush, Flying Press, and Phantom Force all fuck up Minimize.
Also Toxic from poison types and stat reset moves :^)

>>20604401
Yes they are. And also they often rely on quick claw to move first, on scope lens to land more crits.

>>20575565
But thats a huge fucking problem so many of them don want to believe and evenprovidint concrete proof you usually get "nah I still think x so fuck your shitmon"

Shitmon may be the new Buzzword.

>>20575565
There are a lot of pokemons that can be good but considered shitmons because of >muh stats smogon said its shit.

>>20604364
>Which is the point essentially, of the move minimize, to get extra turns.
And the point of the move Sheer Cold is to OHKO anything that doesn't have Sturdy. That doesn't make it okay when the aim of a competitive game is 'the better player wins because they are better at the game.'

The comparison is the effects of using an Evasion move compared to the benefits of running a low acc. move over a high one. Using Surf (90 BP) over Hydro Pump (110 BP) means you will hit ~20% harder, but at the cost of getting screwed by RNG every once in awhile. Hitting a little harder is not as beneficial as making your opponent hemorrhage their turns, which is why it's not a good comparison.

>There are plenty of moves that do the same, just in differing ways, and they're considered fine despite relying on luck the same way, like Thunder Wave and Spore.
Sleep clause exists and Thunder Wave is not used

>People rely on Air Strike to Flinch
Togekiss is the only thing that can reliably use that and Togekiss is shit.

>people rely on moves like Focus Punch to land
This isn't luck, this is prediction. And Focus Punch is usually used with Sub to remove that element, too.

>and people rely on Focus Band to save them, all of which essentially boil down to luck.
No one uses Focus Band, it's a waste of an item slot.

> In the real world however, outside of the circlejerk of bitching, when a new strategy comes along that steamrolls everything before it, people come up with new strategies to counter and check it, and suddenly you have more and more possibilities as time goes on, because people are given free reign. New strategies come into being because they CAN overtake old ones, that's the point, it's progress.
Yes this totally happens when you don't ban things. See: Mega Mom on 40% or something of teams in every battlespot format.

>>20604364

You really think multiple people wouldn't think of counter-strategies when people with functional braincells can make movesets and spreads on their own? Pokemon isn't super complicated, if you can see it's BST and movepool alone you can make a decent team in minutes. The issue is that some pokemon just plain outclass others, and unlike fighting games where you can outwit someone, Pokemon is heavily tied to numbers. Some pokemon are just not going to beat others unless the user is a total retard, and an 'anything goes' meta would end up being the same thing Karenfags bitch about: A setting where only a handful of Pokemon matter, and all the others are either supports or deadweight.

>>20604636
>Sleep clause exists and Thunder Wave is not used
*for the purpose of the PAR hax. It's speed control.

>>20604364
>If you instead ban every new strategy, you halt progress completely, and then you have a metagame centralized around one or two strategies, that change to an even older one upon each one getting banned.
Yes because OU is totally centered around one or two strategies.

>>20604364
>Lock On
Poor distribution, waste of a moveslot in every situation that doesn't involve evasion (it is also horribly inefficient. Imagine every move you make having Fly's charge-up turn.)
>Taunt
Taunt can miss.
>Stomp
Name one good user of Stomp.
>Steamroller
Exactly two FE pokemon get this, only one has STAB and Scolipede has a case of 4MSS as it is
>Body Slam
Even with 170 BP, this is not going to do much without STAB.
>Dragon Rush
Poor distribution
>Flying Press
One pokemon gets this
>Phantom Force
Name one good user of Phantom Force. Actually, name one good physically-orientated ghost
>all fuck up Minimize.
Provided the opponent is not immune/resistant (Chandelure and Body Slam/Stomp, Clefable and Dragon Rush/Steamroller) or is using Double Team (every pokemon gets this) over Minimize.

>>20578878
smogon janitor pls go

>>20604364
Most people do not play UU only, OU is far and away the most popular tier. If you were any bit as knowledgeable as you pretend to be you'd know this since they publish stats about it every fucking month.

>So, popularity.

Got a better way? Given that it focuses on stronger players, it works pretty well. There's no other objective measure to use.

>People only fall into a rut with the strategy if they are completely uncreative, and cannot think of any other strategy, which I suppose is what happens with Smogon, which is why Smogon's meta is painfully stale. In the real world however, outside of the circlejerk of bitching, when a new strategy comes along that steamrolls everything before it, people come up with new strategies to counter and check it, and suddenly you have more and more possibilities as time goes on, because people are given free reign

Can you be any more delusional? Pokemon is not balanced in any way whatsoever, there are Pokemon that are clearly stronger and more versatile than others and they will always show up. Garchomp, M-Kanga and Aegislash are everywhere, even Sejun's team was pretty standard VGC fare apart from Pachirisu. The dominant strategy doesn't change at all, you just have pieces of tech like Pachi that come and go alongside the same Pokemon you see on every team.

>Game Freak is so dumb, a forum full of whiny kids is way better at balancing a game they understand nothing about than the fucking designers of the game.

Most competitive know more about the game than GF does. GF explicitly said they didn't expect people to use special Aegislash, despite the fact that they gave it fucking 150 SpA. Yet competitive players figured it out in days.

These are also the people who gave us Nidoking with +10 Attack despite the fact that it almost exclusively runs special sets, Scrappy Pangoro, and I don't even want to talk about Gourgeist's special movepool. These aren't just mistakes, they're ignorant and amateurish mistakes.

>>20604869
>GF explicitly said they didn't expect people to use special Aegislash, despite the fact that they gave it fucking 150 SpA.

Source? Not him, but I'd be interested in seeing this. Surely GF can't be that incompetent.

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>>20604889
>http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/keeping-an-eye-on-the-game/

>At the moment, are there any Pokémon that are being used to battle in a way you didn’t expect, Mr. Morimoto?

>Mr. Morimoto: Oh, there are already plenty of them. Among them, I would say that what’s happened with Aegislash has been really unexpected. We really thought of Aegislash as a Pokémon that would battle using primarily physical attacks. But recently, there has been an increase in Aegislash using special moves, like the Steel-type move Flash Cannon.

"Surely GF can't be that incompetent"

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>>20605019
Oh jesus shit. Considering the number of design flaws in Pokemon, I really shouldn't be surprised. Yet, I am.

>>20601119

>Do a Q&A
>On /vp/

And I'm sure that has nothing to do with him being asspained that everyone on /vp/ calls Smogon out on their faggotry, right?

>>20603362

Something that I've never seen brought up in answer to this argument: the moves all have accuracy greater than 50%. OHKO moves have accuracy LESS THAN 50%. In both of those cases you have either a larger chance or a smaller chance to come out on top. But their not coinflips. And becomes they're not coinflips, they are not purely determined by luck, although RNG does play a factor.

>>20604636
If you can't win against a less experienced player that uses evasion then you are not skilled at all. Also sleep clause is bullshit.

>>20605332
Chaos was a frequent visitor to Serebii Forums which hated Smogon just as much as /vp/ does, and was worse about it considering that mods weren't afraid to ban without cause. I don't think he's scared to post in places where people disagree with him.

>>20605019
That means they'll nerf its special stat or make some other special drawbacks :^)

>>20605332
Or maybe it would just be an enormous waste of time because the thread would become putrid shit in seconds.

It's not so much of "waah these guys hate me :(," and more like "talking to them wouldn't be a good use of time."

>>20605408
Well what if it's a match between two equally skilled players, and what could have been a nice clean match becomes a shitfest of "who is the RNG's bitch."

Abusing luck is not competitive. So it's not allowed in a meta that attempts to be competitive. It's that simple.

>>20601119
>>20605332
>>20605435
>>20605477
The Reddit Q&A was because some users actually contacted him for one. Is he even aware of /vp/'s existence?

Either way I'd love to see Chaos do a Q&A here, just to see all of /vp/'s hatred at him go to complete waste since he hasn't gotten personally involved with tiering since Gen 3.

>>20605505
Its not allowed in meta that attempts to be bullshit. No wonder they banned baton pass (which is extremely easy to stop and only few players could pull it off). Evasion is the same.

>>20587855
I do
in UU, where it's a god

>>20595462
I play UU and I seldom if ever see any "stallfags". Hell, my main UU team is mostly offensive
>>20604364
>>20604636
>Air Strike
>>20604823
>name one good physically-orientated ghost
Golurk and Dusknoir come to mind. Yes, offensive Dusknoir is possible

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I don't get why people give smogon shit for evasion clause when it's been a thing since Gen 1, before smogon existed. Various simulators/servers have disallowed evasion for a very long time, for good reason.

Evasion makes the game go from (mostly) skill-based to mostly luck-based, and it's just extremely annoying. If you seriously think evasion is okay, then you're completely misunderstanding the point of competition in general, and also possibly think that the current "answers" to evasion are adequate (they are not.)

>>20603712
>Se Jun Park
>underdog

Yeah OK buddy

>>20578878
lol calm down, sparky.

>I can't deal with X :(
>L-let's ban it haha

Smogon is shit.

>>20608050
These are the kinds of posts that prove that the anti-Smogon faggots have no idea what they're talking about.

Smogon bans Pokemon that are overcentralizing. This means that bans diversify teambuilding, not limit it.

If Mega Kangaskhan was still OU it would force every team to run Sableye or Rocky Helmet Ferro/Chomp. Would you want to play a meta like that?

I just knew that casuals and karenfags would find a way to use this against smogon, how do people not get that singles and doubles are completely different things?

I may as well say smogon are gods of innovation for using mega pinsir, a pokemon nearly non-existent in VGC

>>20608124
>only Sableye and Ferrothorn can deal with Kangaskhan

>>20608124
Yes. Nothing should be banned on simulator ever. If something gets banned then the simulation is not accurate and must be avoided.

>>20608152
feel free to name a counter to mega kangaskhan.

>>20609310
Slurpuff

>>20609310
Paralysis.

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>>20608124
>Smogon bans Pokemon that are overcentralizing.
Not really, no. They ban and limit Pokemon that are overcentralizing in a bad way. Overcentralization is a myth, a boogieman of sorts that players for and against the various simulators point fingers at and say "See this shit? This is the problem!" without actually correcting it.

>>20609360
Why don't people call Heatran "smogontoad" again?

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>>20609394
Because of Rain in Gen 5. It's usually called the King of OU.