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/smtg/ - Shin Megami Tensei General
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You are currently reading a thread in /vg/ - Video Game Generals

Thread replies: 283
Thread images: 53
>Starter guide
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10886965/smtstarterguide.png

>Tips and tricks
http://pastebin.com/qqxkrWFh

>Artbook, soundtrack, manga, and other downloads
http://pastebin.com/fgVp423S

OST need re-up apparently

>Misc. Translations
http://pastebin.com/LHKVLNQB

>Booru
http://smtg.booru.org/

>Recommended Reading
http://pastebin.com/YppqPPjf

Last thread: >>92344006
>>
/smtg/ belongs to fujos.
>>
Perfect.
>>
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>>92506328
>This OP imagine
you cheeky little cunt

>>92506407
REMOVE FUJO
>>
I don't understand, how is that monkey reading?
>>
Isabeau is a best
>>
>>92506468
She's just looking at the pictures, dumbass.
>>
>>92506504
>not flynn
>in a game with a canon name

Nani?
>>
>>92506437
WORLD OF FUJO
>>
>>92506468
She's satisfying her primal monkey urge because no alpha gorilla will ever be with her.
>>
Does anyone else think le ebin isabeau monkey meme is one of the worst shitposts on smtg? I don't even care about isabeau. Its still annoying and low effort.
>>
Why does refusing to shake some people's hands give you Chaos points in SJ?
>>
>>92506538
Don't ask me, I just took it from some video.

I wonder why they even gave Flynn a canon name anyway.
>>
>>92506559
I'd pay money to see Isabeau getting fucked by a gorilla. It'd probably hurt her; I've seen a lot of doujins.
>>
>>92506571
>Its still annoying and low effort.

so its smtg, then
>>
>>92506613
Going against the norm I guess.
>>
>>92506694
Thusly, Law = Normalfags.
>>
>>92506613
I take it more as the protagonist reaching out like he's gonna shake their hand and then pulling away and slicking his hair back

That's pretty chaos
>>
>>92506613
Because chaosfags are autistic. You get chaos points for always leaving the house left foot first and wearing the same clothes as well.
>>
>>92506613
>go to a bar
>order a drink without the bartender asking what i want first
>when i get the drink, don't put it on a coaster
>only give a minimal tip
>when i leave, don't keep the door open for anyone

FULL FUCKING CHAOS.
>>
For those that don't know Atlus games are on sale on PSN (in America at least).

I've only played SMT IV and Devil Survivor Overclocked so far, but Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 are downloading.

I'm intrigued by the FFX comparisons. It seemed more interesting than Nocturne. I read the starter guide and still have no damn idea what Raidou is (DMC with a demon partner?).

Anything I should know about DDS first? Any certain jobs to start best with?
>>
>>92506812
That's perfect.
>>
This SMTG is much better than the last SMTG. I approve.
>>
>>92506613

Because a few games have made the connection that being polite = law. So johnathan would probably compulsively think he had to shake hands even if he didn't want to.
>>
>>92506935
>jobs

I think you're confused. This ain't FF5. You just advance your guys on a grid and since most of them start with some already gotten all you really need to do is go up the grid.
>>
>>92506935
>For those that don't know Atlus games are on sale on PSN (in America at least).
Aren't there a bunch of PSN SMT games that don't run very well? If someone knows more about that they should probably post them before some poor anon buys a game and finds it's glitched or inadequate.
>>
>>92507128
Yeah they're a bit wonky. Still 100% playable and beatable, it's just that sometimes cutscenes lag and stuff.
>>
>>92507128
I only own Nocturne and P4 from PSN but they play fine.
>>
>>92507010
It won't be.
>>
>>92507219
The general was so game focused when we were all waiting for KMT and then playing it. I miss the Summer.
>>
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>>92507219
Y-yeah..thanks...
>>
>>92507337
Don't worry, it'll get like that again when If... gets translated.
>>
>>92507451
I don't think I'll live that long.
>>
>>92507010
Not if I can help it.
>>
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>>92507482
What's the next step of your master plan?
>>
>>92507626
Summoning Beadman. Fucking lawtists and their genocide.
>>
Has anyone ever gotten DDS cards in SMT IV? I've only ever gotten one, andthat was when I ate at some japanese restaurant in San Fransisco
>>
>>92507729
>Summoning Beadman.
DON'T SAY HIS NAME
>>
>>92507731
Never ever, and I take my 3DS with me everywhere I go, on campus, out to get a bite, you name it.

>>92507764
Beadman.
>>
>>92507729
I'd rather beadman than this.
>>
>>92507829
Than what?
>>
>>92507829
Define "this".

Signed,
/lit/
>>
You know those provocative shirts that girls wear in doujins that have like "Bitch <3" on them? I think Isabeau would look cute in one of those shirts.
>>
>>92507992
Why would a monkey need to wear a shirt?
>>
>>92507731
I got 4 from a comic/card shop I go to
>>
>>92507905
>>92507937

>>92507992 + the past weekish
>>
>>92508016
C'mon dude, be a little creative. I'm already practically throwing them right to you with the bitch reference, you could at least take the effort to not just bunt the ball.
>>
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>>92507992
Strangely, I agree with you.

DRAWFAGSCOMEFORTH
>>
>>92508108
The past week has been nothing BUT Beadman though
>>
>>92508124
Bunters are people too
>>
>>92508108
But the past weekish has been dominated by alignmentfags.
>>
>>92508108
I don't understand, what's the problem. This thread is off to a decent start at least by being funny.
>>
let me sleep
>>
>>92508108
Bitch ass nigger can't handle a manly general of strength.
>>
>>92508358
No

What's your alignment so I can argue with you about it regardless of my own?
>>
>>92508418
My alignment is whichever you hate the most.
>>
>>92508418
Law. Don't bother arguing, I'm morally correct and there's absolutely nothing wrong with killing most of the people on Earth so a few people can live to suck YHVH's dick. :^)
>>
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>>92508558
I mean technically I hate law the most but I'm pretty bitter toward chaos for having so many qualities I like but then ending up so sociopathic.
>>
>>92508581
It's more along the lines of "I'm morally correct and if you still disagree it means my argument was so perfect that now you're in denial, proving me even more correct."
>>
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>>92508676
But anon, it's not sociopathic, it's just RULES OF NATURE
>>
>>92508776
Gawd, Raiden is SUCH a chaosfag.
>>
>>92508676
wurld of str motherfucker
>>
>>92508820
Think you mean armstrong m8
>>
>>92508676
I'd be a chaosfag if not for the whole social darwinism deal.
>>
>>92508875
Yeah him too but in the end Raiden goes all "I'm going to fight my own war", just like Armstrong.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Raiden is the walter to Lilith.
>>
I'm sick of the alignmentfags.

Is there a better place to discuss SMT?
>>
>>92509038
Maybe the DDS forum, or is it dead? Why am I even asking, of course it's dead. Go try Reddit.
>>
>>92509038
Nope. You could go to any other website, and it'll be personafags or people complaining about first person dungeons and bad graphics.
>>
>>92509038
Unfortunately, this is one of if not the best places to discuss SMT. At least we don't complain about the games being too hard.
>>
Stream when?
>>
>>92509245
It is pretty nice being in a thread full of people who don't think Persona is Shin Megami Tensei.
>>
>>92507731
I used to get dds cards all the time when I worked at an airport. I'm sitting with 12 demons waiting to strike out at my foes
>>
>>92509342
This
>>
>>92507731
I got some guy playing Etrian Odyssey last week and that's all.
>>
>>92507435
Has anyone extracted the new portraits from SH 3DS?
>>
>>92510146
>tfw no more streams
>tfw rarely any OC
>tfw we just enable alignment shitposters 24/7 instead of having fun
>>
>>92510245
Why doesn't everybody come watch me stream league of legends with a webcam on and dubstep playing?
>>
>>92510548
Kill yourself.
>>
>>92510548
How about no
>>
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What kind of music do you think the alignments listen to?

Personally I say lawfags all listen to Creed
>>
>>92511194
Lawfags don't listen to music, they only think of the words of their lord.
>>
>>92511257
this but unironically
>>
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>>92507731
Got quite a bit when I went to AX during the summer, but most exchanges were people with low level demons attached or none at all, save for someone with a level 80 Cu Chulainn.

Also picked up Amala Midnight Vol. 2 there. It's okay, definitely feels rushed at some points, though.
>>
>>92511194
Neutralfag here, I listen almost exclusively to David Bowie.

fuck you colin
>>
>>92511194
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2YgZX9Thm0
>>
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>>92511336
That's not me

My name is ...M
>>
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I want to fuck Mirai
>>
>>92511827
Finally. I've been waiting for you to get here.
>>
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>>92511827
>>
>>92511336
But isn't our lord and saviour Louis's human form was base on David Bowie ?
Are you secretly a chaosfag ?
>>
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>>92512118
Yes he is
>>
>>92508581
>>92508772

B.but its not neutral doing the low effort strawman shitposts. Its totally law. We're only doing it ironically in support of the real posts we never make.
>>
>>92511194

What are those types of masks actually called. I'm asking for a friend.
>>
>>92512508
Holy shit, just let this crap die down already.
You're fucking replying to posts from an hour ago that were part of a conversation that is already dead just so you can have the last word. How fucking petty do you have to be?
>>
>fighting the white
>hit every negative dialogue option to get constantly debuffed
>still win thanks to tetrakarn
If they wanted me to feel apathy they succeeded, I do not care for their nihilistic bullshit.
>>
>>92512605
All your friends are dead.
>>
>>92512626

Equally as much as everyone else here.
>>
>>92512508
>>
>>92512667

I'm asking for an enemy then.
>>
>>92512734
Come on, Beadman. If you know it's shitposting, why would you contribute to it? Just because other people shitpost doesn't mean that you have to do so as well. Let. It. Go.
>>
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>>92512773

My emotions! They're out of control!
>>
>>92512773
Still can't believe that lawfags actually support this.
>>
>>92511331
They released a P4 book, anyone gonna grab it?
>>
>>92512941

>>92512773
>>
>>92512941
I support you. Killing the people who aren't chosen is just a natural evolution of the human spirit.
>>
>>92512734
When I go to sleep and dream of SMT IF, only to wake and return to this IFless hellhole, I don't reply to old shit unless it's fucking on topic. And you shouldn't be replying to old garbage either.
>>
>>92513069
Lawfags: The Musical

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmYIo7bcUw
>>
>>92512941
>>
>>92513141
P. much. If their only defense for literal unprovoked genocide is "stop letting your emotions control you" then I'd pretty much call them sociopaths.
>>
>>92513069

Guys, look. I'm strawmanning the neutral level of intellectual debate.
>>
>>92508142
Doin this

>>92508581
The lord and eat my ass, Neutral is where its at.
>>
>>92513363
>strawmanning
>literally posting screenshots of lawfags supporting genocide
>>
>>92513431

Why did you save that image? Do you save literally every post in here?
>>
>>92513513
No but it's of a lawfag being silly. I always try to capture those.
>>
>>92513513
I'm compiling a folder of lawfags saying straight-up evil shit for this type of situation.

Also for a thing I'm making but that's a secret.
>>
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>>92513387
>Doin this
This gonna be good.
>>
>>92513431

>muh genocide.

Glad the level of debate in here is still high.
>>
>>92513513
>>92513363
>>92512941
Notice how the shitposting had decreased until you started it back up again. Moron.
>>
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Never change /smtg/
>>
Here's a thought.

Why don't we just-
Genocide the lawfags?
>>
>>92513590
Thanks for the screencap, your contribution to my project is much appreciated.
>>
>>92513687
Uh-oh, you'll cause them to melt down in a logic trap of "genocide is good" and "but I can't die because I'm special"
>>
>>92513718
What if we just genocide everything? Then we can all be peaceful and there'll be no more fighting.
>>
>>92513687
This reminds me of the time I heard a pro-lifer say that we should just kill all the stupid people.
>>
>>92513676
It really does feel so peaceful when everyone's arguing about alignments and genocide.
>>
>>92513759
But that would be White privilege
>>
I feel like lawfags are AIDS denialists. Anyone else get that vibe?
>>
>>92513812

Is that a weird way to say gay?
>>
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>>92513786
That doesn't exist anon. How can it exist if nothing exists?
>>
>>92513786
Damn it feels good to be White.
>>
>>92513769

At least its on topic, unlike arguing about whether we're being invaded by tumblr, or whether even if not we have to edit the word tumblr out of filenames so autists don't have spergs.
>>
>>92513838
I was going to say the exact thing. Bunch of lawfaggots.
>>
>>92513908
>other people being shitposters excuses my shitposting
>>
>>92513852
R.I.P moot
>>
>>92513908
>I'm so retarded I can't even act like I belong here
>>
>>92513956

>smtg
>>
>>92513858
White master race.
>>
At last, SMTG finally understands white superiority
>>
>>92513908
I was being serious when I said it was peaceful, it makes me smile a little every time.
>>
Does anyone else get the feeling that whitefags are big cucks IRL?

>yeah bro, you can fuck my girl. it's not like anything matters
>>
>>92514129
You do know what a cuck is right?
>>
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>>92514129
At least I'm not Anthony Burch.
>>
>>92514129

Whitefags who? I'm pretty sure anyone who claims to be white aligned is being facetious.
>>
>>92514165
Yes. I'm saying that whitefags get their rocks off on having someone else fuck their significant other.
>>
>>92514129
/v/ fuck off and go back to rolling in your filth.
>>
>>92514209

If they're legitimately white they probably don't have a significant other.
>>
>>92514378
I'm pretty Caucasian and I do.
>>
>>92514494
What are jokes, faggot?
>>
>>92514530

Things with more humor content than that post.
>>
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>>92514570
Tell a joke, if you're so great.
>>
>>92514570
>>92514494
Are you genuinely autistic?
>>
>>92514614
What do you get when you cross a Stolas with a bungee cord?
>>
>>92514719
Your ass?
>>
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>>92514614

knock knock.

who's there

Karl marx.

...

That's the whole joke.
>>
>>92514570
It's almost one in the morning on /vg/. Lower your standards m8.
>>
>>92514802
You're right, he is a pretty good joke.
>>
>>92514719

they're both nevaR used the wrong way round.
>>
>>92514802
Why doesn't Karl Marx drink tea?

Because all proper tea is theft
>>
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>>92515028
>>
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>>92515028
>>
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>>92515028
>>
goodnight SMTG
>>
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>>92515753

We'll see you in your dreams.
>>
>>92515815
I think it'd be cool if Kaneko drew up some monsters for a Monster Manual or something. Do they still make D&D?
>>
>>92515865
Of course they are, what the hell kind of world do you think we live in that massive nerds don't still exist?

Ask me to describe my D&D character
>>
>>92516086
>Ask me to describe my D&D character

okay. Describe your d&d character for us.
>>
>>92516086
Does your D&D character have anything to do with SMT?
If not, don't.
>>
>>92516252

Sop being a dick. Are you paying for the bandwith space? Let him describe it.
>>
>>92513556
>straight-up evil shit
Back to primary school, kid.
Or start reading philosophical/ethical shit. Or just read the posts you screencap, if that still doesn't work, try to use your brain while reading them.
>>
>>92516216
The man's name is Bulk VanderHuge.
He is a six and a half foot tall, 300 pound musclebound beefman who wears rainbow dragon armor, smokes weed every day, and once had to suck a wizard's dick to get his friend turned back into a human after having been turned into a newt.

Technically SMT related because he's lawful neutral.
>>
>>92516352
>gay shit
>law
>>
>>92516352

Why did you want to describe this? Or are you implying to us that you really feel just gay enough that you wish you could suck a dick as long as you had no choice in the matter.
>>
>>92516418
It's 3:30 AM, who even gives a shit at this point
>>
>>92516415

>Not being gay
>law
>>
>>92516314

Why know anything about ethics when you can be emotional instead and hang around other people and use your numbers as an argument.
>>
>>92516415
>Jonathan
>not a gay furry
>>
>>92516534
Good point.
>>
>>92516314
>killing thousands upon thousands of people for no reason other than you don't like them
>not a universally wicked thing to do

Killing people is wrong. Almost every single ethics system shares this sentiment.
>>
>>92516608

Seriously. stop embarrassing yourself. If you don't get the point, just don't shitpost. You are literally admitting that you don't get what the point is, but still trying to talk about it.

>>92516637

Only one of those was me.
>>
>>92516608
Oh, boy. They're using strawman arguments again.
>>
>>92516681
>Seriously. stop embarrassing yourself. If you don't get the point, just don't shitpost. You are literally admitting that you don't get what the point is, but still trying to talk about it.

Then humor me. Tell me what the point is.
>>
>>92516681
>just don't shitpost
If only you had taken that advice yourself earlier, you imbecile.
>>
>>92516716
If he did that, he would get shit again for repeating the same shit over and over again.
I know you're new here but just go to the archives and read up the discussions of the last three threads.
>>
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>>92516681
>only one of those was me

Buddy, three lawfags did not just appear out of nowhere at 3:30 AM and start circlejerking each other using the exact same arguments as ever.
>>
>>92516804
I don't follow. If he cared about repeating himself like that then he wouldn't say anything at all.

Seriously, at this point it sounds like he's being intentionally vague since he's muddled up his own point so much that it's no longer coherent.
>>
>>92516843
One of those was Beadman and the other two posts were that guy who dickrides Beadman.
>>
>>92516843
Buddy, three neutral shitposters did not just appear out of nowhere at 3:30 AM and start circlejerking each other using the exact same "arguments" as ever.
>>
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>>92516926
>>
someone's keeping a count of how many times lawfags have posted about "THOSE DERN NEUTRALS", right?
>>
>>92516869
So who's the beadman out of those quoted?
>>
>>92517162
This guy >>92516534
>>
>>92517156
You'd think they would want to argue more with chaosfags, or at least the White, but those two love genocide just as much as they do so I guess they find some common ground.
>>
>>92517156
someone's keeping a count of how many times neuters have posted about "MUH GENOCIDE, HITLER", right?
>>
>>92517256
Looks like I caught a live one.
>>
>>92517256
It was almost zero until Beadman's retarded ass had to bring back a discussion that ended hours ago.
>>
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>>92517256
>>
>>92516716

That you are using a device which can see with high reliability far into the future (yhvh) to create a system which in the long run of a countless number of generations create a system which overall -minimizes- unneeded suffering and early deaths. And that if you did indeed know for sure how to do this, then the only reason not to is because you feel emotionally about seeing all the deaths happen up front and that you are directly involved. So your complaints about deaths are not actually about deaths in general, since you would be minimizing them as much as possible (confirmed by lucifer himself) but that you feel guilty being directly involved, since you mistakenly think that your apathy doesn't count as a choice / your emotions make it all about you rather than the results for the people involved / you have trouble processing that the morality of the action also takes into account things that will happen in future generations that don't even exist yet.

Pretty much every ethical system allows some amount of killing for the greater good. Acting like its about no reason other than not liking them means you miss the point. II and IV both explicitly point out that its not about who the people are in particular. So if your complaints don't address the actual points it means you don't understand them.
>>
>>92517226
Seems like the only people who care about alignment fighting anymore are a couple of lawfags and a handful of people who want to make fun of them. The second group could potentially be of any alignment, as long as they can make the lawfags think they're neutral.
>>
>>92517358
Don't forget lawfags who enjoy laughing at other lawfags!
>>
>>92517353
So what you're telling me is, that if we eliminate all Jews then the Aryan race will reach new heights and poverty and war will be gone forever.

The ends justify the means. The world would also be a lot more peaceful if there was a single digit number of people on it. Let's enact that plan.
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>>92513585
Done
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>>92517449
Well, obviously, they'd be on the second group, like I said.
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>>92517353
>Pretty much every ethical system allows some amount of killing for the greater good

Haha, like which? Can you name an ethical system that outright allows group A to eliminate group B as long as it's justified to group A?
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>>92517489
You are a god amongst men
>>
>>92517489
Holy shit, that's great! Nice job. I was the guy that originally said Isabeau would look cute in that kind of shirt; you've gone beyond my wildest expectations.
>>
>>92517272
>It was almost zero until Beadman's retarded ass had to bring back a discussion that ended hours ago.
Yes, let us prohibit every alignment discussion in this general about the Megoomi series because of the shitposters.

So, let's talk about fujoshits. wud u fugg 1?
>>
>>92517658
Because only fruitful discussion could come from posts like >>92512508
>>
>>92517453

Is this meant to be a serious comparison that you actually think makes sense? The issue here is that killing all the jews had no positive utility whatsoever. Nazi Germany never even intended there to be peace; they had a total war economy. And they had no reason to think that there was actual benefit that came form that other than that they simply didn't care about anyone but white people. You can't at all compare it to a fantasy scenario which has rules which very much let you know the collective utility of some things. Which the games say directly themselves in overclocked amane's eigth day when atsuro and the angel talk about how in reality for anyon not the messiah that going around killing people would be wrong, but its different when you know the future, and know for sure that what you are doing increases utility. The point of law is not "constantly plot to kill people you don't like."

Are you implying all killing is equivalent. Do you believe there can be a such thing as a just war, or you always need to without question surrender if anyone attacks you, no matter how corrupt or evil they are? In just wars you are still killing -innocent people-. Enemy combatants are not all pure evil entities whose lives have no value. They are humans like you who have families and hopes and dreams and who may be caught up in something bigger than they can deviate from on their own. But if these people happen to themselves be nazi soldiers you have to fight them anyways.
>>
>>92517572
>>92517658

Thanks guys, I'm just kinda sad that I dont really know how to type in text or put in speach bubbles, I... just know how to draw...

im an idiot


I'm down for some other requests as well

btw I've only played the fourth game and absolutely loved it. Are they all as good?
>>
>>92517750
Yeah, but there's a difference between "I'll fight for my family and country" and "I'll destroy a completely destitute people because then my ideal society can be enacted".
>>
>>92517787
4 is probably the weakest mainline game if you're willing to put up with some of the more aged parts of the first two games.

So yeah, if you like the first game you'll really like the others, though be warned that 4 is insanely easy in comparison.
>>
>>92517489
Mmm, I love how she looks deliciously thick. You really knocked it out of the park
>>
>>92517726
So that's beadman too? Surprising.
Okay let me rephrase it: let us prohibit every alignment discussion in this general about the Megoomi series if there is one shitpost pretending to be an epic lawfag ruser because of the shitposters.
I think we should kill off the thread right away if there is even one post resembling a shitposts, what do you think about that proposal?
>>
>>92517787
If you can get past the fact that some of the games are old and really show their age, the first two are even better. SMT I has my favorite atmosphere in the entire series, and SMT II has the best story according to a lot of people (I still prefer I, honestly). Nocturne is pretty fun, though the reasons are kinda shitty, and SJ is a blast as well.
>>
>>92517840
>first game
Meant fourth
Goddammit
>>
>>92517806

>Yeah, but there's a difference between "I'll fight for my family and country" and "I'll destroy a completely destitute people because then my ideal society can be enacted".

What is the difference in this particular scenario? You keep making false equivalencies to killing random people for no reason. Not killing people in order to preserve a greater peace and safety. Which is equivalent directly to what you are doing in a just war.

In real life there are no perfect answers. Innocent people can and will die. You do not get to wash your hands of the reality that you are accountable for this by pretending that allowing one system where it happens that already exists "doesn't count as your fault" when you have the ability to switch it to one where it happens less.
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>>92517860
Alignment discussions are not the problem.
The problem is one specific autist whose entire life seems to revolve around factions from a video game series to the point that he labels people who argue with him in terms of said factions even if they aren't supporting any particular faction. This whole "filthy neutrals" mentality is cringeworthy as fuck.
>>
>>92517914
The difference? It's because in one case your country is under attack from another and it's only natural to defend it. In the second you're going out of your way to kill a people who are largely preoccupied with merely surviving. There's a pretty hefty difference.
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>>92517860

White, we know its you.
>>
>>92517787
All SMT games are pretty good. I recommend Nocturne, which is a pretty stark difference to SMTIV in terms of atmosphere.

And more Isabeau sketches would always be nice, though no rush or anything.
>>
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>>92517857
This man knows what he's talking about.
>>
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>>92518103
>implying we don't need more Chiaki instead
>>
>>92517976
No, it isn't. Beadman isn't the only guy arguing for law, every last one of those gets the same reaction regardless of what exactly it is they post as long as they argue for law. This whole "genocidal lawfags" mentality is cringeworthy as fuck.
And falseflagging does happen a lot on 4chan, surprised that you're still offended by it. Lawfags aren't the only ones in this general who do it.
>>
>>92518127
More any SMT girl, really. Preferably if they're being innocuously lewd but we need more fanart of the girls in general so it doesn't matter.
>>
>>92518103
>>92518127
>not Heroine or Beth
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>>92517982

There's so many problems with this line of logic that its hard to even point them out. You are blaming individual people, both civilians and soldiers who army have been drafted for the fact that their leaders are pushing them into fighting you. And deciding that that means they absolutely lose their right to life in a way that killing them is not a meaningful issue. If you want to talk about who is cold and sociopathic, this is a ruthless nationalistic line of thought. You are blaming an entire group or country for what a few people might have done. And which you also ignore that many of them may not realize they are on the wrong side of.

And this ignores in itself that this distinction is arbitrary. What makes certain people "more okay to kill?" by your argument? It ultimately boils down to that you think it would result in a better outcome. Or that you are simply not ascribing full humans rights to people you deem as your enemy. Which is worse than law logic, since law treats everyone as equivalent. Who ends up dead is simply who needs to for the better outcome. Even if its your own high ranking people, yourself, or yhvh himself.

You also seem to be handwaving that in most of these scenarios there is a war going on. In IV these events happen when they say that demons are overtaking tokyo and attacking you. So even by your special pleading justification of needing to be attacked, this is in fact also what is happening in game.
>>
>>92518227
There's a lack of Beth, true.
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>>92518174
It's a crime that Shoji doesn't get more attention.
>>
>>92518307
That's because of all her goddamn memes honestly
>>
>>92518246
>What makes certain people "more okay to kill?" by your argument?

Because in one case they're literally attacking your country with the intent of taking it over so fighting back is natural? Justified, one might say. In the other YOU'RE attacking them and then having the audacity to claim that your attack is justified and for the greater good.

I mean sure, at some level it boils down to killing people to have your way enacted/preserved but there's a huge difference in urgency. In one case you're killing to protect the current society, in the other you're killing to enact a potential society.
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>>92518283
>tfw no qt pure eternal partner
>>
>>92518395
>In one case you're killing to protect the current society, in the other you're killing to enact a potential society.
What if the current society is a ruthless dictatorship and the one's trying to kill it great revolutionaries?
Would you say the current society is right?
>>
>>92518539
Define right in this context.
>>
>>92518571
I don't know. Morally, legally? You were saying that it would make a great difference, that's the context, I guess.
>>
>>92518395

>>Because in one case they're literally attacking your country with the intent of taking it over so fighting back is natural? Justified, one might say. In the other YOU'RE attacking them and then having the audacity to claim that your attack is justified and for the greater good.

So basically you are ultimately complaining that law is too egalitarian and treats everyone as equivalent, whereas to you classifying people who are attacking you as less than human is okay for some reason. These people are victims of circumstance. They didn't choose to be born into a society that would later attack you. So you claim law is dehumanizing, but ignore that you are more than them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_luck#Four_Types_of_Moral_Luck

>I mean sure, at some level it boils down to killing people to have your way enacted/preserved but there's a huge difference in urgency. In one case you're killing to protect the current society, in the other you're killing to enact a potential society.

That distinction is arbitrary. The status quo doesn't deserve any special consideration simply for already existing. Both are about trying to achieve better ends overall. And the future is always "potential." A similar future you are more used to deserving more consideration than another better one has no real justification for why "its different" other than familiarity. Especially in a fantasy situation where you can be assured that this potential is better than what you have now.
>>
>>92518690
I'd say they're still different in terms of urgency. It's not really so much about who's right but more who's actually going to take the first step to bloody their hands for the future.
>>
>>92518817
>These people are victims of circumstance. They didn't choose to be born into a society that would later attack you

I'm not talking about retaliation against a country for acts of war, I'm talking about clear defensive reaction; like troops sneak across the border in the dead of night and start attacking people in your country. Removing the attackers from your country is a justified move. Anything further is subjective. Hell, people STILL argue about the ethicality of counterattacks in wars that are decades old.

>That distinction is arbitrary

No, I don't think it is. You're talking about two similar actions that have an entirely different impetus. It's like saying that the distinction between espionage and sabotage is arbitrary. They're similar kinds of actions but they have wildly differing implications & repercussions.
>>
>>92519048

Wars involve innocent people dying. Fighting off people on your own territory means they will even be people from your own country. Likewise even if they are soldiers their lives still have value. Your argument is conflating what is justified in an ideal situation with what would make sense to actually expect to play out in war. Something bad which has no later benefit is just bad. You can't conflate military tactics with thought experiments where you are told what the result will be. And if your reasons boil down to results, law is about maximizing results. If they boil down to concepts of "who is okay to consider not worthy of protection" then you have a bigger issue on your hands to why you consider that more important than protecting people.

>implications & repercussions.

We're talking about the repercussions in a fantasy scenario where you know it creates world peace. So if we're conflating situations, this is actually much more justified than any unknown scenario in real world situations where you just have to wing it. And is why conflating it with things like nazis is radically incoherent. Which is why law is associated with peace in general. The point is to ultimately prevent war situations. And this too is to minimize negative dubious situations of them in the future. Which is what the everlasting peace aspect is about. Law isn't about warmongering. And the ideology is about pacifism when it can best be maintained.
>>
>>92519589
A soldier knows what he or she is getting into though. You're not wresting soldiers from their homes and killing them. They know what their actions can result in. The people who you attack in their home country are not soldiers and do not deserve to be destroyed. It might sound cruel to say that soldiers should anticipate dying on the battlefield but it's an adage for a reason.

And if the ideal society can only be enacted by killing people who have very little involvement in the foundation of your new society, I would hesitate to call it just. You can talk about pacifism but at the end of the day you kill thousands of innocents in the Law path just because they're not the chosen people. Consider: if you have to physically destroy anyone who could potentially upset your new society, how firm of a society even is it? If the disenfranchised, destitute people of Tokyo (literally referred to as Filth by the leaders of Law) can truly cause such a stir, what are you actually fighting for? A kingdom of glass.
>>
>>92519829

>A soldier knows what he or she is getting into though.

Until very recently this wasn't really true. And even now it only is for first world countries. And its very cold to use as an excuse the idea that killing soldiers doesn't really matter. If that's how it works then constant war doesn't count as negatives since its a loophole that lets you get rid of people without it "counting." Many of the people who are in this situation may have had pressures putting them in beyond deciding to be one totally neutrally and then deciding that thus their life has no value. Which is hardly just either.

And your second paragraph was already gone over. If you kill people to save many more it is easily just. The only way to spin it as not so is to make it about yourself having to act rather than the people who receive the consequences. Which is remarkably selfish, since you're handwaving the suffering they really receive. And again, most of the killing takes place in situations it would be very hard not to in. And there's in games reasons for this. The people in the new world have a new psychology that prevents strife. Intermingling with regular humans who do not could destroy the system. And yet once established the narrative points out that it lasts forever. Calling it glass isn't really an insult, since its not about being strong. Its about what works. And a world with only the innocent / humble inherit the earth it shows creating everlasting peace and happiness.
>>
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so when you get the chaos ending in 4 and inevitably fug hikaru, does that mean by proxy you are fugging walter?
>>
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>>92517840
>>92517884
>>92518103
thanks for the tips guys

>>92517489
Thanks, and yeah, thick girls do need love

Aight bored as rocks gimme a request or something.

I-I take commissions too you know ;w;
>>
>>92520482
Phat Chiaki booty
>>
KMT 2 satan or SMT 2 satan?
>>
>>92520482
>>92520447
draw over the crusader armor with samurai armor in the style of jonathan
>>
>>92520447
As if Lucifer would let you fuck him.
>>
>>92520638
Of course not. We all know Chaosfags can only get off to rape. It's about power, after all.
>>
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>>92520447
>>92520565
not sure if it goes along what you wanted but, done

>>92520545
is this the same girl who features as the schoolgirl in IV ?
>>
>>92521327
No, Chiaki is the classmate from Nocturne.
>>
>>92521327
No no, dumbo, Chiaki is essentially the chaosfag of Nocturne, though it's shitty-ass chaos and not the rad True Demon kind.
>>
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>>92521391
>Yosuga
>not Law
>>
>>92521494
Bro what
It's literally "survival of the fittest, only the strong deserve life and the weak should all die off"
>>
>>92521673
For him it's just Law because YHVH seems to approve of it. For that anon ideologies don't seem to matter.
>>
>>92521673
No, it's a regimented society where the lower classes are removed and there's no possibility of societal change.
>>
>>92521769
YHVH approves of some weird shit in Nocturne. It's like he was too busy and just didn't give a shit as long as you don't just remake the old world or go demon/true demon.
>>
>>92521815
>no societal change
>Chiaki's entire reasoning was society was stagnant and refusing to change

What drugs are you on right now
>>
>>92521858
Well, the whole thing about the Vortex World is that the people gather Magatsuhi to make a Reason and compete to see which one will prevail for the new world. The problem with Freedom/Demon/True Demon is that hey aren't reasons, I guess.
>>
>>92522006
Why was Nocturne so goddamn weird
>>
>>92522006
>the people gather Magatsuhi to make a Reason and compete to see which one will prevail for the new world
So it's a World of STR that can potentially make another World of STR?
>>
>>92522089
There are a lot of weird things happening in there, but I think it's all intentional
>>92522091
That's right. The whole idea of Nocturne is being in a chaotic world. But the events of this chaotic world set the whole stage for the new world that will be made.
>>
>>92521327
this will serve a purpose

thank you.
>>
>>92522089

Because they apparently didn't know how to switch things up but vaguely decided to try once anyways. So we got attack of the bad writing followed by subsequent games never trying again.
>>
>>92524575
Plus they made the worst "friends" in mainline. Killing your friends is supposed to be sad, not something to look forward to all game.
>>
>>92524575
Nocturne's writing isn't bad, it just barely has any presence.
>>
>>92524907

Its not necessarily terrible when taken as its own story, but as part of the megaten universe its pretty dubious. Pretty much every demon acts out of character. The angels not only show up as chaotic, but openly call kagutsuchi an arrogant god, obviously trying to tie them to standard chaos. Demons being the new law is cool, but the ones they chose didn't really make sense. The entire introduction of the "other" chaotic lawish system seemed like it should go somewhere, but its never mentioned again. This is equivalent to what chaos usually is in most games. Why were the angels acting like they were going against kagutsuchi. Or were they not? Was it a continuation of SMTII? Where the angels represent something akin to the center, but hikawa was the other law end? And hell, before TDE was put in, the "good" chaotic end was actually neutral. So for that game alone, lucifer didn't think wurld of str was a good idea? If any of this was meant to be part of the bigger mythology as a whole it shouldn't have came off like a really lazy person just haphazardly mixed up parts of the story and didn't care that it made no sense.

The entire thing simply didn't mesh well with the universe as a whole. And that's to say nothing about that kagutsuchi was an odd choice for an avatar of yhvh. Assuming that that's even what it was. And if it was, why is it suddenly okay with literally any ending, so long as you use it to get it. Are both it and the angels with yhvh? Neither? One?
>>
>>92525268
>Why were the angels acting like they were going against kagutsuchi. Or were they not?
If they were against Kagutscuhi, they wouldn't have supported a reason, just like Lucifer.
>And if it was, why is it suddenly okay with literally any ending, so long as you use it to get it.
I guess because that's just how the process of death and rebirth of the world works. You're thinking in terms of endings, but that's not a thing in the games, they're all paths. The reasons all lead to a new world, which is the whole point of the Vortex World. Meanwhile Freedom just remakes the previously existing one; Demon leaves the Vortex as it is, with no real new world; and True Demon completely destroys the cycle (at least for that world). Kagutsuchi is an entity that is in place to ensure the continuation of the cycle of death and rebirth of the world, so those endings are all against his purpose.
I think the whole problem arises because it's all a bit too vague, the game isn't specific enough about how the process works and that just leads to confusion and a lot of space for speculation that is hard to prove or disprove.
>>
>>92525814

The problem is that that relagates the actual different ideologies to basically a tiny choice between how you side with kagutsuchi. And yet that is something that no other game implies. Since lucifer seems totally fine with leaving the world there yet pushing it forward to a demon ruled one in every other game. So why is he now on a totally different side. Does he think in-world chaotic is a good second best? Or does he not care about it at all unless its a more demonic version. If they were going to exand the cosmology to include more concepts, they should have had another representative of some kind. The way it is it just looks like none of the characters are very consistent.
>>
>>92517524
islam
group a (muslims) can eliminate group b (non muslims) indiscriminately, justified by them being infidels.
>>
>>92526046
Well... none of the other games have the context of the vortex world. It's possible that Lucifer has no way to force the Conception, so he has to settle with opposing Law in the more common ways we see. But within the Vortex World the idea is different. It's to influence a stop in the cycle of recreation. How frequently he tries and achieves this is unclear. It's also unclear how often there's one strong person that can trample all Reason representatives and defeat Kagutsuchi without developing a reason, but that was the case in Nocturne.
For the True Demon Ending, Lucifer sees a new opportunity. He figures Demi-fiend is strong enough to be his general and lead a larger initiative against the Great Will, a chance to not only stop the imposed cycle for a single world, but to destroy the system altogether.
Nocturne is definitely weird as far as this sort of stuff goes. But I don't think Atlus particularly cares about trying to maintain some form of lore consistency or anything; They generally just seem to be playing around with different concepts each time around. We'll just have to live with the fact that we'll never get an entirely unified and entirely consistent sense of anything, not even the big recurring entities.
>>
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So quick question about P4A.

It's currently on sale with all its DLC for $20, but is the game just completely outdated/irrelevant with the release of Ultimax? I don't mean as in online community, just in terms of is there any point in getting it when Ultimax exists?
>>
Moot is dead, we are free from control, but also from protection.
>>
>>92527270
I guess if you want to go through the story yourself instead of watching it online. Why you'd want that, I can't say.
>>
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>PCEngine version of SMT had unique demons like this guy

Holy shit this guy looks fucking awesome. He's so full of religious fervor that death doesn't stop him from kicking ass and taking names. Lawfags, take a page out of this guy's book/
>>
>>92521327
Are you still taking requests?
>>
Should I buy overclocked or just emulate it.
I could buy something else instead.
>>
>>92530721
Overclocked has more content, so it's the better choice if you want to play DeSu. But if you don't think you'll be that into it anyway, then buy something else.
>>
>>92530770
I like SMT and srpgs.
I'll probably get it.
Maybe.
I hate buying things.
>>
>>92530849
Then try out a few fights on the emulator, and if you like it, get Overclocked because it's just a straight improvement.
>>
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>>92527579
Sorry, I fell asleep but yeah, I guess I do haha
>>
>>92532668
Please draw Alice with Nadja, please.
>>
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>>92517489
Wokeup to this, thank you honorable drawing samurai!

Looks like she's working at hooters or something
Thread replies: 283
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Thread DB ID: 34270



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