>7th Dragon Stuff
>Recommended dungeon crawler titles (work-in-progress)
>Generation Xth Code Hazard
How am I supposed to hear the FM version of The End of the World, then?
Asking again because last thread was distracted.
Anybody have good experiences in EOIV with a weak shield party? I'm trying to make one work because it looks really freaking strong, but poison seems to ignore it, arm binds disable it, and any enemy that goes before my B/F can get weak shield up can usually 1shot my half-dead party members..
That's what I've been doing half the time. It just seems like it's got amazing potential since it's both cheaper (20tp for 3 rounds, vs 20tp per round), and lets you do shit while it's up.
So far it hasn't been worth the effort though.
I wish the ignore damage floor and reduce encounter skills/items in 7th Dragon lasted longer than 50ish steps.
If there's something about this in the pastebin I'm not seeing it.
I don't think I quite get Grimoire synthesis. I've got a nice pile of Grimoire stones that all have skills I don't care about. Should I bother trying to synthesize any of them?
I used an N/A F/I | S/B R/B R/B party with weak shield and it worked pretty well. I didn't bother with it in normal encounters, though, because everything died so fast it didn't matter. Subclass fortress probably won't get enough damage reduction from either party shield or weak shield to not die to some things later in the game.
Squirrels are shit.
Did anyone else keep feeding them wires, expecting it to pay off EVENTUALLY? God I was retarded.
Also, what the fuck's with the captchas recently? I just got "goodhue leguro."
Were we getting "raided" last thread? It seemed like there were multiple shitposters in on the joke.
You got ignored, but yes, all of the classes will be able to use much more artwork than before. So far, they've just shown artwork previously used in older promotional materials, though, so no one knows if the characters that received less art will get new ones to compensate for some already having a hefty amount.
So it's like choosing a portrait for your class, except now there's more portraits for each "character"?
That's nice, but I was hoping for portraits that change based on your character's status, like how much damage they've taken.
> I was hoping for portraits that change based on your character's status
Like enemies in EOIV? Where do you draw the line though? Fully 3d rendered characters? Attack animations? Portaits that change based on gear?
I sort of prefer them being flat, static images honestly.
Nah I wouldn't go that far, just like 2-3 portraits for when you're wounded or boosting. Changing it for everything would take too much work outside of 3D models, and I'd rather not have those.
Honestly it's not a big deal, I just thought it'd be a nice thing to add when I heard about the extra poses.
If it really was all you, then you've got a personality defect, m8. Not only for sustaining the shitposts for four hours, but for also throwing additional tantrums in standalone posts unrelated to the "discussion" threads you were already in. That screams histrionic ADHD to me – apparently you weren't being vindicated frequently enough.
Why are you even here? The game's clearly shit, and everyone who participates regularly is obviously adamant in being socially-stunted weeb lords. You don't want to catch that, anon.
Look at the bright side; at least now we have portraits that make sense for combat medics.
>Not making her "injured" portrait a psycho smile.
Does she have canon pants? The portaits leave it ambiguous.
So is Hellion meant to be female or am I just delusional from all the all-female parties?
>knee-length hime hair
Holy shit, I hope nothing like what just happened in that last thread ever happens again.
It's not necessarily exclusive to females in EO (Seyfried sports the style in the third one), but it's pretty iconic for lady characters nontheless.
I'm convinced until I hear otherwise.
A party member dies on an important boss fight, then the fight gets finished that round.
Everything was so even up until then, do I live with it.. or reset and try again?
I usually don't care about uneven xp with the SOLE exception of this game. Like, it drives me insane how many hours I've wasted hard-resetting after a botched battle over something like a 40xp difference.
Fuck sea battles, by the way.
Sorry, meant series. have some crossover art as an apology.
The Paladin? If by what stats to level, probably more into vitality, then strength. Haven't used one much, but they apparently tend to get lower HP rolls on level up, so if you haven't, try to savescum on them specifically since they'll be taking all the hits later on.
i learned the hard way and thats get the fuck outta the dungeon/heal poison item.
your main way of gearing up is through crafting so make sure to identify anything you find.
also save scum before leveling up so you can get
+19 hp rather than a +5 hp boost.
I think it was Gothic, thanks anon. Have some satisfied princess.
Heya, /eog/, it's the anon from a few days ago who finally started playing EOU.
I've gotten to the bottom of the Primitive Jungle now (I haven't started exploring B10F proper, though), and I have to say, I quite like it. It's got a nice visual design (it's a plain jungle, yes, but it's much different from the Misty Ravine), the enemies are a good deal tougher than the Grove's (but not overly so), and the layout of the floors is maze-y enough that I feel like it's winding and... uh, maze-y. With the amount of ways up and down from B8F to B9F and so on, it really does feel like you could get lost in here without a proper map that you've drawn.
The only problem is that I never feel like I'm getting lost in the jungle because it's too damn easy to just use Floor Jump to get to the stairs that I want to go to. Without it, I'm pretty sure I'd feel like going from floor to floor, further and further, would actually give the labyrinth a sense of depth to it. As it is, it doesn't feel much different from exploring a random cave on the overworld map in IV.
I dunno why I'm telling you all this, I guess I just think it's a shame that such a small feature could hamper the sense of the dungeon quite like this. I'm quite honestly tempted to either disable Floor Jump somehow or to force myself to not use it.
I've yet to play the remake, but I have fond memories of the first Etrian Odyssey. 3rd stratum was probably my favorite, thanks to the color scheme, music, and my builds finally having enough sp to fill nicely.
Have you played the original? If not, it's a great deal clunkier and slower, but still probably one of my favorite dungeon crawlers. New features aren't always better to me.
I haven't, no, but at times I'm tempted to dip my toes in. I've tried the first floor of 2, and while it was fun, it also severely kicked my ass (giving you a nectar near the dropoff point was a godsend). I understand that 1 is better balanced in some ways, but who knows? I can always look up a ROM for it if I get the urge.
Of course, right now I'm juggling both EOU and Wizardry 8, so I don't think I'll be starting anything else anytime soon.
The first two games are probably much harder if you go in blind, but they can both be broken really easily fairly early on. I still love them to bits and vastly prefer them to the newer games. Also, it's really time consuming to do the cap->retire->cap again in the first game and gives you very little.
4's pretty fucking comfy though.
You think the jungle looks nice (which it does, not disagreeing), wait until you see the third and fourth Stratums.
Don't do that unless you're going for quick gathering runs. Hoof it out like we did when EO was new. It's better for you in the long run for both experience and money.
1 and 2, you already know of, but I'll break them all down anyways.
longass grind to 70, retire gets you back to 1. Payoff is only 8 skill points and 3 in a specific stat
much faster boss grind, but you have to cap out and relevel like 30 times to hit the cap. Shit takes forever.
killing dragons raises the cap by 10 for the whole guild, so you can just do 99 -> retire to 30 ->99 without all the hassle of retiring 30 times in between. There's a skill that gives your benchwarmers 50% of the xp your main party recieves, so it's easy to level your whole guild to 99 if you have the time for it.
About as easy if not easier to level, same system as 3 for raising the cap. You don't have the benchwarmer xp thing anymore though, so you have to manually grind each one to 99 yourself.
Overall, 2 is probably the most time consuming, and 3 is probably the fastest.
You think EO1's fourth stratum looks nice? It's my least favorite stratum in the series visually.
2 is the only one where to increase the level cap you have to grind it up one level at a time, yeah, although I honestly think it was better that way since it heavily discouraged grinding. 1 didn't have any way to increase the level cap, just small bonuses for retiring depending on the level you retired at. In 3, 4, and U it goes up by 10 for each elemental dragon you defeat and stops at 99.
My least favorite is tied between the 4th stratum in the first game and the 3rd stratum in the third game.
4th stratum had nice music, at least. I'm the anon that always shits on Cavern of Splendor.
Yeah, I'm fond of wasteland/desert settings. Maybe I'm just weird.
>1 doesn't have the level cap go up
Oh wow. I've been running on a wrong assumption for years.
But hot dang, that 3 method. I really need to get around to playing that.
Anyone else feel that bushis are pretty much EOIV's yggdroid?
They both have really neat, thematic skillsets. They both look super visually distinct from the other classes. They're both built around managing their small, constantly regenerating TP pool.
They're both also somewhat gimmicky and shit as a main class.
I just don't like it, I dunno. Music preference is pretty subjective. Drowned City is overall the weakest musically in my opinion.
>But hot dang, that 3 method
Remember to make a party of level 1 farmers asap when you get the game at the very least.
Whenever you're in town, check if they've leveled and keep pumping that Combat Study. By the time you're in the 2nd or 3rd stratum, your whole farmer team should have enough points to learn their harvesting skills and a bit of utility. I usually make 1 learn the safe stroll stuff while the other 4 rush for double crop and all that stuff.
There are 3 of them actually. The first one raises up to 2 party members to 25 for you, the second does the same but to 35, and the third does it to 45.
Scylla glitch isn't all that great past a certain point in the postgame anyways. 3 is by far better since you can fill your whole guild with 25 benchwarmers and farm Pasaran/Dragon xp on your party of 5.
Phew, finally really beat EO4.
Got everyone to 99, found all the items and the like, and killed the damn Insect.
Link skills are hella OP
They were probably just spouting memes and shitposts, but the gameplay is extremely shallow, the dungeons are corridors, and there's about 2 or 3 hours of TEXT TEX SOCIAL LINK TEXT in between. At least PQ is an actual dungeon crawler
How do you do linking? I find myself underwhelmed whenever I try to get a link party working. They bleed TP, take forever to set up and feel like dead weight in random battles.
I always hear people praising linkers though, so I think I'm doing something wrong with mine.
two or three nightseekers though? now you're speaking my language!
I'd say the press turn system of main SMT and digital devil saga is better than the all out attack system, but it does have the occasional complexity when it comes to bossfights. The dungeons are shallow, certainly, and when they do start mixing it up by having the lights off on a floor or requiring specific items or backtracking in different dungeons it just feels more tedious to me than fun. Golden's bonus dungeon did some interesting things but it also revolved around a groanworthy new character so there was that. I would definitely say if you don't like text heavy games, persona wouldn't be the right series to play, but the stories themselves are pretty good. Minus the stuff golden added to four. And 3 is a bit more consistent in tone and isn't QUITE as straightforward about being a waifu simulator.
It's nothing more than a convince and shaves off time from having to go through shortcuts. Not only that he mentions getting lost? When the fuck does that ever happen, dungeons are always all linear, and if you're exploring a new floor you can't even floor jump regardless.
>if anyone can enjoy these games for anything but the most masochistic reasons, the series has FAILED
Okay here's my party
L/R, F/D, N/A
First two turns are setup here's each
N/A=Any ailment throw->Different ailment(for attack bonus) or just shadow bite
A/M=Bind most important part->Atrophic Eye
Then on the third turn whatever I'm fighting gets destroyed
L- Elemental weakness link attack
F- Party shield
N- Flurry attack (whatever it's called)
A- Circle blast
S- Squall volley
It does upwards of 30k a turn
Yeah that nice and all but I really hate it when people have to yell "m-muh hardcores". There's nothing hardcore about a tedious, trivial floor you've already cleared just so you can go and fight the boss. I personally would have just preferred the poles from 2 to com back but whatever.
It's been said before, and it's probably redundant to say again, but my link team worked very well and didn't take that long to set up. Vanguard for the Linkshark, Blood Surge for the Bushi/Dancer, and typically I'd use either Charm or Atrophic Eye for the Sniper (I imagine if I were looking for more pure damage, I'd switch the sub to Bushi and Blood Surge instead) on the first turn. On the second turn, set up Improved Link, Chase Samba, and another round of the Eye skill. Then use a link, use a normal attack with the Bushi/Dancer (or use Rush Dance), and Squall Volley from the Sniper, and boom, boom, boom. Squall Volley in particular shows its true colors when you use it on bosses and it's leveled up high enough where it's accurate enough to not miss more than it hits. The accuracy boost from Landshark's class proficiency, as well as Vanguard and Initiative, help that too.
>need to do in expert
Its not like you actually are trying to achieve some challenge. Just are just milking exp, there no need to keep Expert if you are going to grind in the game
I wasn't calling the game easy, mind. Like I said, the enemies in the Jungle are a good deal tougher, and I've finally started to desperately need those Nectars at times. Poison seems to do way, way more damage than it did in IV, I'm not sure whether I'm crazy or it actually does.
What I said is that Floor Jump hurts the feeling of actually going through a deep, long dungeon. Like, in IV, when I explored the first early section of the Forgotten Capital, then warped into the Library, then to the Lair, the Ravine, the Woodlands, I ran into a lot of nasty situations and scrapes that made me feel mentally exhausted from trying to get through the new areas and hoping sometimes that I'd be able to run away from FOEs that caught me at a bad step. I really did feel like I was progressing further and further into a big, long maze.
With the Jungle, having to go from one stairway to another stairway and over and over would likely bring that feeling back, but since Floor Jump exists, it's too easy to just tap the stairs you want to go to and warp there with no effort. Like I said, I'm thinking of restricting myself from using it because I actually want to feel like the dungeon is a large, exhausting dungeon to crawl through. It's not an issue of difficulty, it's an issue of... I guess convenience versus immersion.
They are FOEs that can generate on the map two at any given time and can move at 3 steps per turn. Aside from summoning minions, they can use an attack that 500s your team and blind the survivors.
That sounds pretty great actually. I was running
L/RM RM/B D/N
and while the dancer could stunlock shit no problem, random battles were a freaking pain in the ass.
Replacing the dancer or runemaster with a nightseeker might make bosses and foes a little scarier, but it'd let me wipe packs out with sleep/venom throws.
How useful is th sniper main, really? Even with all the hits critting and not missing, Squall seems to be lower overall damage than Swift Edge on an ailing target. Venom lands pretty reliably for another flat 700 damage a round, and follow trace adds more chases. Is the main class's Eagle Eye strong enough to make up for the weaker ouput of Squall?
I sort of dislike snipers so far, but I haven't cleared the postgame yet. Got the game a couple weeks back.
I don't have to have the same set of experiences to know that a fallacy is a fallacy, If you don't like a feature, don't use it, but don't go around saying everyone else needs to enjoy the game in the same way you do or they're not "real" players.
>never liking surprise like another depth dancer spawning just besides you
>want easy experience instead of getting it from challenges
Different opinion, I suppose. I don't see the point in switching to picnic just because I can't kill a bird any sooner.
I can't say much on comparing Snipers to Nightseekers, as I haven't ever actually used a Nightseeker before. I've also never actually used Eagle Eye, either. All I know is that Squall Volley sometimes proced the links three or four times a turn, and combined with the Bushi/Dancers Chase Samba procing it two more times, and then her normal attack procing it at least once (more if Sword Dance triggered), the team's damage output was huge, at least to me.
Here's that excerpt from the battle I had with the Heavenbringer at level 99. For reference, the Landshark has Vanguard and Improved Link up already, the Bushi/Dancer is Blood Surged and has Chase Samba, and the Heavenbringer is under the effects of Atrophic Eye. Linker's Improved Link is maxed, too.
"Landshark used Electric Link! Dealt 576 damage to Heavenbringer!
Chase Samba activated! Dealt 459 damage to Heavenbringer! Electric Link activated! Dealt 259 damage to Heavenbringer!
Medic attacks! Dealt 64 damage to Heavenbringer! Electric Link activated! Dealt 305 damage to Heavenbringer!
Dancer attacks! Critical hit! Dealt 688 damage to Heavenbringer! Electric link activated! Dealt 351 damage to Heavenbringer!
Sniper used Squall Volley! Critical hit! Dealt 274, 282, 280, 270, 280, 270, 276, and 270 damage to Heavenbringer! Heavenbringer dodged three other attacks.
Electric Link activated! Dealt 397, 443, 489, and 535 damage to Heavenbringer!
Fortress attacks! Dealt 259 damage to Heavenbringer! Electric Link activated! Dealt 581 damage to Heavenbringer!
Chase Samba activated! Dealt 457 damage to Heavenbringer!
Heavenbringer used Tundra Lance! Fortress lost 60 HP! Piercing effect activated! Sniper lost 89 HP!
Atrophic Eye's effect on the enemy wears off!"
I haven't played EO4 to even know about that, but even Pasarans explode if you mess up.
That anon said he never felt lost in that game because of the convenience of Floor Jump when the maze is solid enough to begin with. If you're to base it on this feature alone, even falling down to BF 27 is no longer a risk when it's a total hellhole to begin with.
Thanks anon. I might just ng+ this game and give linking one more try.
For the record, Nightseekers are by far my favorite class so far and I've tried all 10 out to varying degrees.
- Squall is an average 12 shots at 50% damage, so an average of 1200% damage if they all crit (which is easy for a sniper to do, I think)
- swift edge is 4-5 attacks at 110, for 495% on average. follow trace is 56% chance to do a second attack at 80% (let's say another 221% on average) so let's say about 715%. Foul Mastery's 25% and nightseeker's 2.9 brings the total to 2508% per round after landing an ailment.
meant 2.8. Mathed it as 2.8 as well, it was just a typo there.
Anyways I'm going to give
R/B L/R N/A
a try. RM should give 2-3 links, N should give another 2-3 links, and F should give the remaining ones no problem.
I have no idea why it never occured to me to throw a nightseeker into the party. I guess I just haven't played long enough yet.
Hokey smokes, that sounds pretty ridiculous. Maybe once I finish playing U I'll pop back into IV and try a party with a Nightseeker in it. I haven't tried any classes, U or IV, that specialize in ailments (aside from binding), so that'll be a fun thing to try out.
Thanks right back at you!
No problem. My initial party (I used a skillsim but didn't really browse for guides or anything) was:
N/A D/N N/B
the dancer used trick samba to let my nightseekers whack things 3 times while stunlocking enemies. Nightseekers did the swift edge shit I just mathed out. A/M did A/M stuff, and F/S tanked while using Eagle Eye.
Fighting physical resists was the WORST SHIT EVER until I got venom throw, after which it became a cake walk.
Best tank coming through.
Hoplites look awfully heavy compared to other tank type
Hoplite is most ideal when you want a certain party member to always survive. For example, an Arbalist on front row.
Not to mention she can still Provoke to divert attention to her
Unlike the Yggdroid, Bushis have viable offensive skills, but I can see the similarities.
The problem with Bushi is that they lack synergy with other classes (no Runic Elemental Drives, status/bind Arcanist/NS/Sniper shenanigans, etc), and their best build is almost impossible to spec for in the average party.
Multislash is the balanced Hexer's Revenge. It has all the tools to regularly get to low HP (Follow Trace Shockwaves, Shockwave's effect cannot cause self-KO), and it hits like a truck, one and a half trucks if Follow Trace procs the Multislash. TP is never an issue since Blade Flurry + Bushi passive.
However, it's basically impossible to stay <30% of your HP with an Arcanist or healing Dancer in your party because AoE healing is so strong in EO4.
Flash Slice is a great skill, but all offensive skills faces competition with things like Links, Squall Volley, elemental Drives, etc (partially unfairly, since all those require multiple turns and or multiple party members to pull off).
They're not a shit class, though (as long as you avoid the Novice skills and the lackluster Mace skills). I've probably run with more Bushis on my main team than most, and they're great. They shred regular battles like no other class, and can hold their own in boss/FOE battles while contributing significant damage and output stamina. Their high strength belies their damage output despite their lower multipliers. Bushi fails to stand out when there are so many huge combos/multipliers in the game, but that's because of how blinding large numbers are. It's far more turn efficient than Linksharks and Imperials could ever hope to be, making it more versatile against randoms/FOE/bosses assuming you aren't leveled to where you one shot everything, at which point Bushi's Shockwave still makes it best for randoms while still being good for FOE/bosses.
You just have to build Bushi for hyper offense and offer support for it in the same way you support your NS/Sniper/Imps, etc.
yeah, but Fortresses have all that AND THEN SOME, while Hoplites get the elemental guards.
My problem with bushis is the same problem I had with gladiators in the third game, but inverted I guess.
Glads were almost always the best class to build physical attackers off of thanks to their 25% bonus.
Bushis are almost always the best class to sub onto attackers since level 1 blood surge is good -enough- without being too prohibitive, and the strongest bushi attacks are still weaker than things like squall/links/swift edge.
EO4 does have great balance though.
fuck. I meant troubadours. Their designs are so similar and I've been playing 4 a lot lately.
Here's a medic giving ronin a checkup.
>die a million times on Forgotten Capital and the backtrack to first stratum
>take down the cursed prince and the heavenbringer first try
WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN EVERY TIME HOLY FUCK I'M MAD
RANDOM ENCOUNTERS DESTROY ME YET BOSSES ARE FUCKING PANSIES IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE
You probably have a team that excels in single target damage. Linksharks, Imperials, non-Venom NS, and Squall/Snipe Snipers are some of the classes are are pretty bad at mob battles without wasting exorbitant amounts of TP compared to the good efficient mob classes like RM, Bushi, Venom NS, and certain skills on Landshark/Sniper that nobody in the world has ever bothered to invest in despite it being their only decent cost efficient AoE.
Price you pay for your boss killing machine.
Different anon here,
I'm in the 5th right now with an RM/I, and I don't really feel like he's particularly good at blowing up mob packs in 1 round. He can usually finish them off by round 2, but the first round gives them plenty of time to fuck my party up.
What's the "efficient" way of clearing trash off an RM?
But my team is
L/B F/D D/N
Not a linkshark either, and none of the other classes you mentioned.
I had/have the exact same issue and I had no clue how to deal with it other than try and take the damage and reset if the losses were too heavy.
Just looking at your party, you can probably teach the A/M sleep circle to take the edge off the first round, and blow mobs up one by one after. Maybe quickstep it with your F/D (the D/N bleeds tp while the F/D can generate it)
That's how I'd do it if I had your setup.
Did you spec Lightning? Because that's the single target line, anon. Blizzard and Flame rune are the reliable enemy-party targeting skills.
Depending on gear setups for turn order, you should be able to cast a debuff before your RM gets their skills off.
Also, depending on level and the mob itself, some mobs really aren't OTKO-able, and two turns is perfectly fine and expected.
NS and Sniper both have options to help with getting pre-emptive strikes and preventing mobs from getting them, acting as a 'free turn' in some cases if you have them in your party; very good, if often overlooked, options.
From what I can tell, your issue is that your team cannot output enough damage fast enough because you really only have two damage sources. Mitigation can only go so far, your lack of damage is what's giving mobs extra turns. You may be able to turtle your way though bosses, but that won't fly against mobs.
Dancer is best with two offensive units on its row to maximize Attack Tango, which is wasted on your Fort. If you've specced for the Sword+Mist Dance build, then you lack even more damage while your stun rarely spreads in mobs.
For your Dancer, I HIGHLY recommend getting Dance Mastery on top of any gear with BURS slots/forged when you can. Then, you can supplement your damage with the cheap Bursts like Double Attack on your Landshark and the 2 burst line-Fire attack on your RM. Those bursts will act as an extra turn of damage for your damage lacking team without changing team composition.
Assuming your Landshark went Swift Stab, you can invest points into Spiral Slice to play around with the required points for Penetrate for decent AoE. It's not really a multi-target class even with those.
F/D is light on skill points after you get your guards, so consider Earth Break and Vengeance Bash (which synergizes with each other and VB with the shields). Won't be doing much, but they have good multipliers that isn't standard attack on free turns.
Just some confirmations: My L/B is basically just a Bushi with some Landshark skills for support. I very much needed the Bushi's AOE skills to survive the random encounters and I rolled with it and used it against the Heavenbringer.
My F/D and D/N really don't output any damage, no. Honestly I should've gone with a Nightseeker as opposed to a Dancer for my third front row slot as I really like the Fortress (the way I won was by using Party Guard... every turn. Couldn't even kill my Fortress so my damage output didn't even matter). Landshark, I dunno. Maybe I'll rest him and start giving him some links so I can run a linking party for the postgame.