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/smtg/ - Shin Megami Tensei General
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You are currently reading a thread in /vg/ - Video Game Generals

Thread replies: 758
Thread images: 116
>Starter guide
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10886965/smtstarterguide.png

>Tips and tricks
http://pastebin.com/qqxkrWFh

>Artbook, soundtrack, manga, and other downloads
http://pastebin.com/fgVp423S

>Misc. Translations
http://pastebin.com/LHKVLNQB

>Booru
http://smtg.booru.org/

>Recommended Reading
http://pastebin.com/YppqPPjf

Previous thread: >>79074061
>>
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Gimme a Life Stone if you know what's good for ya.
>>
Is the catalog broken?
>>
>Nakajima lost a level!
>>
>>79210660
>showing pantsu

What a slut.
>>
>>79211068
Fuuuuuuuuck. Gets me mad every. Single. Time.
>>
>>79210807
Life stones are only for demons that are in more than 4 games.
>>
>>79211195
>SMT 2
>Soul hackers
>IV
>Jack bros

Fuck you, give a life stone!
>>
>>79211351
Say please.
>>
>>79211068
How does a son of man lose a level.
>>
Anyone else feel like the music in Infini isn't really fitting for the final dungeon? It feels like something you'd hear in a solemn cutscene.
>>
>>79211728
Magic
>>
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>find out you can effectively buy incenses for 10k macca in nocturne

>get 250k macca in second kalpa

looks like I just beat nocturne
>>
>>79212175
Wait what? I don't remember that in Nocturne.
>>
>>79212257

The white box in the lucky ticket game almost always has an incense in it on a full kagutsuchi
>>
>>79211076
Seriously.
>>
>>79212535
Ah, that explains it.
>>
Can we sing?
YOUR ASS IS MINE
>>
>>79213842
I DON'T WANNA TRY TO FIGHT THIS LOVE
>>
>>79214069

HOW DANGEROUS CAN IT BE?
>>
>>79213842
Are we ever not singing?
>>
>>79214253
/smtg/ the Musical, featuring Anon from the 4chan™ series
>>
We should do another vocaroo thing.
>>
>>79214604
in b4 r u a girl anon
>>
In DDS, does the Red Key become available to grab from Harley's room as soon as you clear Svadisthana? I'd rather grab it now than forget about it and have to get it at end-game.
>>
>>79215406

No you get the blue key from Harley's room. The red is obtained in a sewer maze that's behind a yellow wall
>>
>>79215457
Ah shit, that's right. Well, can I go grab it ASAP? I just finished the place off.
I kind of wanna make this NG+ playthrough fairly brisk because I know Noise farming is gonna be time-consuming.
>>
>>79215406
isn't the red key in that water maze
>>
Which games don't have English versions?
Thinking about getting into all of this once I finish off some other RPGs I've been working on.
>>
>>79215647
Majin Tensei series. Most of the Devil Children series. Devil Summoner 1, Shin Megami Tensei if...

I think that's all.
>>
>>79215613

It's in the svadhisthana waterways. IIRC you want to look behind a waterfall not too far from the Cereberus boss fight.

You need the red key to fight a bunch of optional bosses anyway.
>>
>>79215790
You forgot Giten and NINE. I think most of the Last Bible games aren't in english either, but I doubt anyone cares about those.
>>
>>79215790
Thanks.
>>
>>79216009
Yeah, that sounds about right.
I just had a look for myself and it seems as though you can't get the Blue Key straight after clearing Svadisthana. I kind of figured as much, since I didn't encounter a single random battle while backtracking to Harley's room. When I got there, the NPC that hands out the key wasn't there either. Oh well, onwards.
>>
Is Nakajima his first name, or his last name? I seriously can't tell.
>>
>>79216105

How is Giten? I know nothing about it other than the fact that it's a PC game.
>>
>>79216429
Family name.
>>
>>79216429

Both. His true name is Nakajima Nakajima
>>
>>79216105
The Last Bible series had the Bible as the final boss in Another Bible.

Both it and Revelations: The Demo Slayer are the only ones in english.
>>
>>79216501
is shit.

but it haz pron.
>>
>>79216616
Forgot the pic.
>The Bible will never again be a final boss.
>>
>The Last Bible series is set in a fantasy world patterned after the ancient Middle East.

I'm sold. I was just thinking the other day how I wanted to see more games with a Middle Eastern setting.
>>
>>79216616
Oh and I mean Aeon Genesis translated Another Bible.
>>
What do you think a second Golden Playhouse game would be like if one was ever made?
>>
>>79216852
The first game is the only one where Lucifer is the final boss. The twist is that him and the other Gaia masters just want to protect the monsters. Except Mephisto who is a dick and kills one for power.
>>
>>79216878
third bible in english when
>>
Why hasn't the Last Bible or Devil Children series been translated? It seems like they would be something that would be easy for even an amateur translator to pick up and get done since they're Gameboy games.

>>79216607

Imagine a live action Megami Tensei movie.
>>
>>79217210
That's the one where the human bad guy turns into a crystal lizard thing right?
>>
>>79217317

Lack of interest I'd assume.
>>
>>79217317
Actually someone has translated the story and certain details of the game for Red/Black/White/Fire/Ice. Not completely though, and the names for demons that they translated looked like they went through google translate.
>>
>>79217317
>Imagine a live action Megami Tensei movie.

Sup.
>>
>>79217565
Love between a Demon and a Human? This is not Chaos.
>>
>>79217715
Yeah. Angels only procreat with humans to groom a child who will be their brainwashed and easily manipulated pawn to commit genocide and begin armageddon.
>>
>>79217940

Sound fine with me.
>>
>>79217454

Well the way I see it is, there's only so many untranslated Gameboy games in the world and plenty of amateur fan translators out there who might want to get some practice on something smaller. Also, the MegaTen franchise is somewhat successful now and it's only getting more popular. Makes me wonder why I haven't even heard of any efforts to translate the Gameboy MegaTens.
>>
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>>79218021
Armageddon in this case means destroying all existence and leaving nothingness. A world of pure law.
>>
>>79218275
I want the white to leave
>>
>>79218275
thats white, dumbfuck.
>>79217715
>Love

More like rape.
>>
>>79218258
i only know the english
>>
>>79218349
>>79218327
Actually that was the angels plans in Red/Black Book.

Then in White Book they unleash Jashin to destroy exsitence, and she wants to do it because there is no logic, nor purpose to creation.

I bet you didn't even know Enoch enjoys tentacle raping little kids.
>>
>>79210660
Why are her ass cheeks so far apart?
>>
>Law is literally drinking diarrhea
>and chaos is eating turds

Why.
>>
>>79219053
>chaos
>in any way bad
Ha, loser! You just can't survive in a world of STR!
>>
>>79219053
>Neutral is eating diarrhea covered turds
All happens according to the Great Will.
>>
>>79219210
and the white is drinking piss.
>>
>>79219331
White is just starving yourself to death because you know everything is shit so why bother.
>>
If someone could help go through all the images tagged with shin_megami_tensei_1 and change them to just shin_megami_tensei that'd be very helpful. I am currently doing it, but some help would be nice.

http://smtg.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=shin_megami_tensei_1
>>
jurakubookstore blog spot com/2014/05/megaten and-discourse-by-three.html

Thanks to whoever posted this. I love reading such meaty breakdowns and I feel like I learned the right way to use elementals for the first time.
>>
>>79220771
Does starting with the worst demon in a race, and then going backwards using an element to get the best demon in a race still work in SMT IV?
>>
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>>79220593
doing it right away.
>>
>>79221238
Thank you anon.
>>
Woah, that was fast. I want to use only 1 tag per game, and then add aliases to redirect other searches to those tags, so that nothing gets missed.

Next one is switching all demifiend to demi-fiend
>>
when will the downloads pastebin be updated with the proper prepatched roms?
>>
>tfw no element absorb passive to go with phys absorb
Damn you, DDS.
>>
Next is shin_megami_tensei_iii_nocturne to shin_megami_tensei_nocturne

It's a short one
>>
>>79222273
or maybe just make it "nocturne"?
>>
>>79222789
Nah, it's already finished as shin_megami_tensei_nocturne

nocturne by itself will be an alias.

Next is changing strange_journey to shin_megami_tensei_strange_journey

If a post has both, delete the strange_journey tag. Thanks again anons.
>>
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So Im playing Nocturne and Im torn between making a Physical/Buff/Debuff build or a Healing/Light/Darkness build. Any odd builds that are fun?
>>
>>79224937
Physical Buff Debuff, is as standard as you can get in Nocturne
>>
>>79224937
Depends on which ending you plan on doing. If you're going for the True Demon Ending you'll want to go physical. Otherwise you can do whatever you want, but be warned that Curse/Expel magic won't work on bosses at all.
>>
>>79211195
burn

>>79211351
reverse burn

Here have a Life Stone
>>
>>79225112
I want 30 Macca.
>>
>>79220771
Any other articles that discuss any of the series' games in an academic sort of way like this?
>>
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>>79225179
>>
>>79221530
The Tips and Tricks pastebin has pre-patched roms in it. No idea when the downloads pastebin anon will update.
>>
>>79225179
Okay


Anyways what about a Luck build for Nocturne is that viable?
>>
>>79218763
Because 3dpd rules don't have to apply here, muh fiend. She's ready to take sum DIC.
>>
>>79227427
Why haven't you been rangebanned yet
>>
>>79227747
Different guy. Just wanted to piss you off, you little faggot.
>>
>>79227834
Such venomous words, sounds like you've got issues
>>
>>79227946
>piss
>faggot
>venomous words
Just wait for LGBT or SJW, they'll kill you.
We should stop with the shitposting. I reached my goal anyway and am noww content and proud for the rest of my life.
>>
>>79228153
You'd never survive in a world of strength with such an antagonistic attitude.
>>
>playing smt 1 with ordens patch
>get to the part after rescuing heroine and went to talk to her at the neutral bar
>cant enter gotou's dungeon
seriously what the fuck the guards wont let me in
>>
How good are Soul Hackers? I've played Nocturne and liked it, I'm guessing SH doesn't use press turn. Also, how are the fusion mechanics?
>>
Ok so why the fuck does KMT have a way better interface then smt 1? like it actually gives you item details and shit, the game in general feels way more polished but i thought it came out before smt 1... whats up with that?
>>
>>79230390
KMT came out after SMT1. It's a remake of the original Megami Tensei 1 + 2, which were on NES.
>>
>>79230390
>i thought it came out before smt 1
maybe do some googling instead of just thinking about it?
>>
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>>79230679
>>79232349
really thought i read that it came out before smt 1 on the wiki, guess im just retarded
>>
>>79210660
>booru has like 5 MT1/MT2 images
why
>>
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>>79210660
I want to tensei the megami for shin.
>>
>>79234302
because none of us cared till now
>>
>>79233131
You're not retarded, the wiki is.
>>
>>79234665
>TFW no-one will care about ...if because it'll never get translated
>>
>>79234817
>...if
time to go to bed anon
>>
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>All this talk about Nocturne in /smtg/
>Give in and start a new game on Nocturne after a couple years of not playing
>Nickname the MC "/smtg/" in honor of the thread
>Went thru all the long scenes, etc.
>Got to first save point
>Checked items
>Forgot to get the free Soma from the Vending Machines on the 2nd floor of the Medical Center, before the Conception hit
>Can't be assed to restart the new game just for a free Soma
>mfw I realize this
>>
>>79221043
Not sure about SMT4 but it sure as hell does in Soul Hackers 3DS.
>>
>>79230330
SH is great, but doesn't use press turn. Instead it has a demon loyalty system.
>>
>>79230330
SH is pretty nice, the combat is standard and the fusion is somewhat annoying. Its a lot like smt 1 with its demons and fusion mechanics.
>>
>>79237158
And here we have a namefag lying again.
In SMT1 there is no inheritence, SH does have inheritence.
You're fucking a fucking retard.
>>
>>79236302
Are you full?
>>
>>79237759
Its been a while since I played SH, but yeah you're right SH does have inheritance.

>You're fucking a fucking retard
I...What?
>>
>>79237770
The hell does that mean?
>>
>>79238171
He's insulting you're waifu, anon

Are you gonna take that shit?
>>
>>79238494
He better not. He won't be fit for our glorious world of STR then.

You need STR to keep your waifus, else someone stronger will just TAKE them from you.
>>
>>79238646
But Louie, I killed ure waifu.
>>
le wurld of strenf maymay xd
>>
>>79239717
Sounds like a mad casual lawfag that got #BLOWN THE FUCK OUT
>>
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>>79239896
im actually a chaosfag though
>>
>>79240031
THEN I EAT YOU
>>
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>I wasn't here last night
Any updates on the P1P revelations music patch?
>>
>>79240595
>tfw no mark with black mark as his persona
>>
I'm fucking stuck on this floor. This nigga keeps telling me of some goblin at south but I can't find the little fucker and I can't find stairs to go down anywhere either. What to do?

This is my first ever Something Tensei so please don't bully.
>>
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You are all wonderful people.
>>
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>>79241304
Why thank you! I try...
>>
>>79241304
>Sem título
Então anão tás fixe ou quê?
andas pelo ptchan?
>>
>>79241416
Que raios de português é esse? anon, pára.
>>
>>79241159
Oh fuck. I discovered some stairs on the 5th floor I hadn't seen before. Nevermind my question then.
>>
>>79241416
>ptchan

Fuck my life.
>>
>>79241539
>anon
>Ele não diz anão quando fala com anões portugueses

Nem vou mentir nunca conheci nenhum tuga que gostasse de megaten
>>
Pascal the dog is here.
>>
>>79242474
Will you talk to him?
>Yes
>No
>>
>>79242795

>>Yes
>>
>>79242795
Maybe
>>
>>79217317
Last Bible II was fan translated.
>>
>>79242795
Don't be stupid, only toasters can talk to dogs
>>
>>79242474
>>
>>79243190
Of course you can talk to dogs, they just don't answer you back
>>
>>79243191
Is there actually a full Portuguese translation patch of SMT1?
>>
>>79241987
Oh, entendi.
Então... provavelmente essa troca de mensagens não mudou sua situação, porque sou br, oops

Anyway, it feels weird to read messages on 4chan that are not in english so we'd better drop that off
>>
>>79243757
Nope. I remember reading in a Brazillian romhacking forum that someone wanted to make one from Orden's translation (dunno if he wanted to do it from English or Spanish), but I don't know what happened to it.

That screenshot is "real", though, but I added the accents in Paint because I didn't modify the game's graphics.

As far as I know, there are only Chinese and Orden's Spanish fantranslations available. No one else wants to bother with SMT.
>>
>>79243191
>nunca vai haver um smt onde vais numa aventura começas na cidade do porco e vais até à gloriosa lisboa a pé
>>
>>79241304
Fuck off Orden
>>
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>>79247462
>sem titulo
>Portuguese
>Orden
>>
>have a great interest getting into this series
>got the emulator and Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2
>setting up the key bindings because of no game pad

For non gamepad guys here, what does your set up look like?
>>
>>79249047
I haven't actually tried it, but it shouldn't be too difficult to get something that works. Depends on your preference, but you could try having the right analog to the mouse, the LMB to X, RMB to O, then WASD to move. Square is the map and pass turn button, and Triangle is the auto battle and rearrange skills button, so pick what you think is appropriate for that. R1/L1 are used for switching between character status screens, and can also be used to control the camera, so for this setup, Q/E would be good.
>>
>>79249047
>For non gamepad guys here
Such people exist?
>>
>>79249389
thanks a bunch m8

>>79249441
I do have a ps3 controller and I used it before on my computer for some time and then for some reason it just stopped working. It was the worst timing because I just had the best Devil May Cry 4 mood going on.
>>
Did canzah mention anything about the persona 1 music unfuck in the last thread?
>>
>>79250275
He's working on it mate, just be patient
>>
Let's settle this.
http://strawpoll.me/2497730
>>
>>79252707
it will never be settled m8
nevr
>>
>>79252707
Settling it is the lawful thing to do
This poll is clearly biased
>>
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>>79252917
There is only one way out.
>>
>>79252707
I fucking hate those homicidal maniacs.
Neuters are dangerous. /smtg/ isn't safe.
>>
>>79253085
>lawful thing to do
I'm the guy that created the poll and i am Law
>>
>>79253210
lawfags like it when their jealous evil god kills most people on the planet, id rather a neutral any day
>>
>>79253374
>Neutral
Good job in making human existence pointless and screwing everything up,now humans are going to reincarnate forever without being able to die because you were a huge fag that wasn't man enough to end the conflict in a definitive way, have fun with realizing how weak and defenseless humans are when they are alone, you just condemned the entire humanity to eternal doom, now you will watch humanity destroy itself and not even the innocent and honest that deserve peace will ever be able to rest, you must be proud neutralfag.
>>
>>79254080
I said id rather A neutral, i'm a chaosfag

lawfags are like jews except 50 times worse
>>
>>79254476
>Chaos
Good job with being an egocentric and egoist faggot that doomed humanity and made every single good person's life miserable and painful, and you did all of these wonderful things just because you think you are better that the rest, you'll be backstabbed by Lucifer or someone as soon as you get older and you'll see how the ''weak'' that your kind so detest felt, even if you are chaos because you want a world where everyone is free you just created a world where
children and innocence have no chance of survival, good job.
>>
>>79254080
>neutrals reincarnate
Wot
But don't all non-Laws just go to Hell?
>>
>>79252707

> Those results.

How unlawful.
>>
>>79254476

You don't really identify that closely with a fictional alignment that's more about opposition than having its own ideology do you?
>>
>>79255071

>hell

>SMT is based on the bible

I got bad news for you bro

>because you were a huge fag that wasn't man enough to end the conflict in a definitive way

I got bad news for you too, because the cycle of creation always takes place regardless of alignment.
>>
>>79255415
>the cycle of creation always takes place regardless of alignment.
Isn't God the one responsible for that? He would not end a lawful world.
>>
The White were right, let's stop this fight with all our might.
Don't let the most difficult Boss in the history of SMT wait.
>>
>>79255663

>God

Do you mean YHVH or the Great Will?

YHVH, as the manifestation of god is clearly not omnipotent and the Great Will only oversees creation. In fact the Great Will's existence more or less implies that even lawful worlds will come to an end.
>>
>>79255036
Thanks for the compliments, if lucifer tried to backstab me I'd kick his fucking ass

would rather live in a world where only the strong and intelligent survive then a world where only the weak minded that would love to suck gods dick 24/7 survive
>>
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>>79256320

>would rather live in a world where only the strong and intelligent survive

You'll be the first to go

>implying chaos isn't pure hypocrisy
>implying Hikawa doesn't best represent chaos, and he's law
>>
>SJ mod for Doom never
>>
>>79256595
>implying chaos is pure hypocrisy
wut
>>
>>79257027

Chaos can't even handle the extremes of their own ideology, hence why Hikawa was considered a heretic.

That's as weak as it gets.
>>
>>79256271
Only to have new law worlds take their place.

Besides the Great Will is not omniptoent either. The idea that it might be is just as wrong as YHVH being omnipotent.

Not to mention a number of games treat them as the same.

>>79257027
I think they mean about the fact that even Gaeans found him too extreme.
>>
>>79256320
You literally would create world were a peaceful, honest, happy and simple life would be impossible, and also, praising God, an almighty being that wouldn't do us any harm as long as we are faithfull to him isn't as stupid as you think since the world is overrun with demons and gods, praising God and receiving prosperity, safety, justice and eternal rest after death is a pretty good deal, even better, everyone born in a lawful world would have this rights, it's by far the best option for humanity and the future.

>>79256271
At the very least the world would be peaceful and happiness would reing while the world lasted.
>>
>>79257341
It's only natural that chaos would disagree amongst itself. That's what it means to be an entity of chaos.
>>
>>79257432
>eternal rest
You'll just be reincarnated at some point. The cycle continues, and you might reincarnate in a world where YHVH isn't the supreme power. Like how the Four Archangels of SMTII were reborn as humans in the world of Brahman, and the Atma virus allowed them to overwrite their human self to eat humans and build the thousand year kingdom in His world.
>>
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>taking alignments seriously
>>
>>79257341
>>79257346
>Every member of the Cult of Gaia is Chaos
>so everyone Chaos must be a member of the Cult
>>
>>79257520

>we're all in agreement of what our Chaos organization will be like, except for Hikawa, he's a faggot

That's basically law in a nutshell.

>muh world of strength

The strongest are ostracized from chaos. Bitch-ass chaosfags don't even have the power to follow through on their own ideals.

>>79257346
>Only to have new law worlds take their place.

Nope, gotta have humans. They're the most important beings in the multiverse, hence why they're a required element for creation.

>Not to mention a number of games treat them as the same.

Only in the sense that they're both God and thus suposed to be indivisible but most just don't get into the distinction.
>>
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>>79257432
>Not wanting to expand beyond the world and just stay a mindless drone destined to fall silent and be cursed.
WORSHIP ME! THE CREATOR OF ALL, UNPARALLELED BY ANY!
>>
>>79257885
>>
>>79258114
>>
>>79257971
Because there's no point to distinct between them. That's why Catholic Churches, and only Catholic Churches in King Abaddon are places where people worship the Great Will.

Even in Nocturne a NPC calls Metatron a servant of the Great Will.
>>
>>79257432
>a peaceful, honest, happy and simple life would be impossible, and also, praising God, an almighty being that wouldn't do us any harm as long as we are faithfull to him
GOD IS A LOOSER HAHA FAGGOT
>>
>>79258535
>Because there's no point to distinct between them

Grammar aside, sure there's a distinction. YHVH is the manifestation within the physical world and due to the way the conception works it is probably heavily influenced by the Reason that goes into the creation of the world.

This is why the angels and YHVH are presented differently across the series when they would otherwise be immutable.
>>
>>79257971
You can be part of a group and disagree with someone, while also not agreeing with the rest of them.

Minako in IV had plans to place Astartoh as the RIng's King, and when that failed she ditched those bunch of psychos to make Tokyo fertile by reviving Ishtar. She was still part of the chaos alignment regardless.

Though at least she doesn't have to become Ishtar on Neutral since the dome will be removed, with life returning just fine without that goddess.
>>
>>79256595
>You'll be the first to go
>implying chaos isnt about strenf
>implying law isnt about getting on your knees and worshipping a deity that hates humanity
>>
>>79257432
>an almighty being that wouldn't do us any harm as long as we are faithfull to him

This is what lawfags actually believe.

The seed of chaos is already within you, son of man. Die for the greater good.
>>
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>>79256595
Only the strong willed will be allowed to live in the world of law. The weak willed, which is most of humanity, shall be purged, and those that remain shall praise God for all eternity.
>>
>>79258856

It's not about agreement, it's about not being a bunch of pussy bitches. Hikawa was the strongest in the cult and the rest of the cult of hypocrites turned away from it. If there was anything to their ideology at all, the conception wouldn't have been so easy for him to accomplish. Easily manipulated, easily killed. Chaos likes to talk about strength but when it comes down to it and their nuts are in a vice, they're always too weak to win.
>>
>>79257432
Would rather die young in a world where i can do and believe whatever the fuck i want then die old in a world where god restricts everything i want to do or think
>>
>>79258859
Sometimes chaos is about just doing what you believe in, even if it hurts other, and when you fuck up you actually try to fix shit. Like Dahn in KA.

Others just want to oppose God, and the way they go about it determines how much of a dick they are. Like Naoya's two 8th Days.

And others just want true freedom, without going world of STR.
>>
>>79259213
>strong willed
>suck god's dick for a living and have no individuality
>need god for surviving

heh
>>
>>79259253
You're saying yourself that those pussies aren't Chaos, so why are you using them as an example for Chaos?
Isn't that what a hypocrite would do?
>>
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>>79259213

>this son of man thinks Law is about strong will and not the subversion of will

And that's why you'll be left behind to die in the great purge when the thousand year kingdom is finally created.
>>
>>79259253
Mem Aleph is actually pretty STR, including some demons.

Plus the supporters of their alignment change between games as well. The Four Heavenly Kings were on chaos side in SJ, and the Mothers did beat YHVH when he was weak.

Not all of them are weak bitches, even Kaga was able to make a demon who thought she was invincible thanks to her magic get weak enough thanks to a stomach ache that the Samurai could beat them.

While those weaklings as Tsukiji basically mocked her when they couldn't even handle a couple demons coming from the Reactor in Ichigaya.

Though there is some irony in that Koga Saburo slaughters the lot of them on Walters route, when he's a chaos demon who a hunter thinks likely wants humans to get STR so they can survive when the Red Pills are no longer useful.
>>
>>79259745

They are chaos, because chaos is defined by hypocrisy.
>>
>>79259913

Mem Aleph is actually neutral.
>>
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>>79259813
The Three Wise Men even state it and the current leaders of the Law faction trying to fulfill YHVH's plan for humanity since he is incapacitated.
>>
>>79260085
Yes but when the earth is threatened by rot and decay she will rise up and become a champion of STR.

The Schwarzwelt shows her when man has reached the point of no redemption as the negative energies of the rotting earth transform it into the state seen in the game, while the beautiful positive energies make it a place of beauty when life is overflowing.
>>
>>79260239

They say nothing about having a strong will.

In fact, there's an angel in Grus who defines law as subverting the individual will for the whole so actually it's very much the opposite.
>>
>>79259964
>because chaos is defined by hypocrisy
That's a pretty stupid thing to say. Why did you come to that conclusion? Oh, right, because in Nocturne they aren't acting like true Shin Chaos guys would act.
Also nothing can be defined by hypocrisy alone, they first have to pretend to be something and that something is that something regardless of faggots who can't live up to it.
>>
>>79259745
Being hypocritical is part of human nature, its helped us survive for ages so shut the fuck up before i kill your god
>>
>>79260525

Then why do the true chaosfags not worship the strongest god?

YHVH already won in the wurld of str contest. Chaos should acknowledge that.
>>
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>>79260492
>We are here to build a just civilization spiritually.
>The spiritually enlightened whose wills are strong will be chosen...
>While the fallen humans whose wills are weak shall be exterminated.
>>
>>79260801
He blinds them with his ego.
>>
>>79260801
Maybe because they don't like that humongous faggot in charge so they want to overthrow him?
How the hell should I know, ask them yourself, retard. I'm a Demon Ending guy.
>>
>>79261398
>Demon Ending guy
>Not having the strength of will to pick a Reason or choose Freedom/True Demon
What a loser!

Did you cry when Kagutsuchi thought you didn't even deserve to be killed in a battle? I bet you did.
>>
>>79261398

>Maybe because they don't like that humongous faggot in charge so they want to overthrow him?

As the strongest, he's allowed to do what he wants with his wurld of STR.

Also the demon endings in nocturne are chaos.
>>
>>79261643
So nobody can try to be stronger? What the fuck, do you even get what wurld of STR means?
If some kid with long hair kills the faggot in charge he'll be the new one. Nobody would care about that yellow fuckface anymore.
>>
>>79261580
>strength of will to choose Freedom
Made me laugh there. 10/10
>>
>>79261643
The normal demon ending seems more like the worst aspect of Neutral. To cowardly to not only pick a side, but also too weak willed to try to change things by becoming a True Demon or restoring the old world.

Even Kagutsuchi doesn't think you deserve a battle to the death, and I honestly feel like Lucifer is mocking you with his dialogue about the thousand year kingdom for the demons and his blessing when he abandons that world to go somewhere else.
>>
>>79261946
>If some kid with long hair kills the faggot in charge he'll be the new one.

And then he'll be law. Chaos is a self-defeating alignment, defined as being "the ones who lost."
>>
>>79260801
>strongest god
>is jealous
>has an ego
suuuure
>>
>>79262431

>thinks the top motherfucker in a wurld of str won't have an ego

He didn't get there by putting up with shitter gods who can't even handle his glory
>>
>>79262189
Except you're literally wrong
>>
>>79262613
>commits mass murder of people who dont worship him because he's insecure
>>
>>79262189
>As the strongest, he's allowed to do what he wants with his wurld of STR.
>Chaos is a self-defeating alignment, defined as being "the ones who lost."
Which one of your definitions is the correct one?
In the first one you defined Chaos as the strong guy reigning and chaosfags not being allowed to fight back, now sucking his dick. Yes, that's Law.
>>
>>79262752

Except I'm literally right because this is literally exactly how it works in nocturne.

>>79262898

>wrecks bitches who don't even think he's the strongest getitng BTFO
>>
>>79263789
>implying smt 1 isnt what law and chaos are supposed to be
>implying anything after it isnt butchered
>not playing pre-smt 1 megaten only
literally hitler
>>
So, how about that Debisama, If... and P1P?
>>
>>79264023
Still working on P1P music. I do like 3-4 tracks a day because loops are a bitch.
>>
>>79264023
man you faggots are impatient.
>>
>>
>>79264151
Really want to play p1 again but the music makes it impossible for me to replay it

>>79264151
At least that shows people really want this
>>
>>79264248
>not shin megoomi tensay
Ya blew it.
>>
>>79264151

I dunno I think he waited a pretty long time to change the subject, all things considered.
>>
>>79264151
Better talk about those games than alignment fight #46546
>>
>>79264397
I didn't make it though?
>>
>>79264587

YA BLEW IT
>>
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>>79264640
I'M SORRY
>>
>>79264521
Asking if people are done making them playable for us isn't really talking about the games, tho. But I guess since we can't play them, we can't really talk about them.
>>
Does anyone have that KMT1 Dryad fusion shit?
>>
>>79264521
You know, the reason why those "fights" never have an ending is disgusting neuters ruining everything.
It's pretty funny they pretend that they are cowardly faggots who mistake a discussion for a fight but they would not hesitate a second before stabbing you in the back and kill almost everyone "for the sake of humanity" even when they don't even know how to change this rotten world.
>>
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>Shin Megami Tensei Trading Card: Card Summoner
>451 demons, yes FOUR HUNDRED FIFTY ONE demons
>Law, Neutral and Chaos paths in a damn card game
>still not translated
>>
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>>79265428

fck off
>>
>>79265428
Yup, that's neutralfags for ya, no idea of what's worth fighting for and they fight for the ''greater good'', implying that someone who can't even chose between stupid stuff like eating pizza or hamburguer can make the best choices for humanity.
>>
>>79265280
Nevermind, I figured out which I needed.

On that note, does anyone know how stats work in the damn game yet? Mine are all over the place.
>>
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>>79264248
>>
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>>79265991

fck off
>>
>/smtg/ now hates alignment discussion
Sure is reddit/neogaf here.
>>
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What's the overall hardest SMT? IV is considered easy, but press turn on boss fights can still break my balls. And I've heard Soul Hackers is intermediate, and that game aint easy so far, and I'm only a few hours in.
>>
>>79266284
SNES SMT with no help.
>>
>>79266284
strange journey
>>
>>79266284
SH is as easy as IV, mate, except that IV gets easier as time goes on and SH has a few more difficult portions later on.
>>
>>79266284
SH is easy modo, KMT is ball to the walls
>>
>>79260492

That's what having a strong will is. Chaos gives into their impulses. You can define their impeccable never giving up as strong willed. But they have to give their everything to do it. Law is even stronger willed. They get the same results without roaring or even breaking a sweat.
>>
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>>79266278

fck off
>>
>>79266628
NO; HOW ABOUT WE FUCK ON.
>>
>>79266284
SMTIV hard mode, Nocturne hard mode and Strange Journey are the hardest games in the franchise
>>
>>79266717
Nocturne hard mode wasn't hard once you get past early game.
>>
>>79266717

>strange journey

Yeah unless you solo things for amazing exp I guess.

And then there's new game plus which is so trivial as to not really be worth mentioning in terms of difficulty.
>>
>>79266378
>>79266717

Just regular mode SJ? What makes it so difficult? Was gonna play it when I finish SH

Not that I'm complaining if its hard, I wanna be doom guy
>>
>>79266931
The random battles in SJ are pretty trivial, but it has some incredibly hard mandatory boss battles and some pretty sadistic dungeons
>>
>>79267054

What can make SJ hard is the fact you don't control your stats, so it's possible to end up at the end of the game as some fucking 30 str gimp and just get rocked by every real bossfight. By which I mean, avoid magic support demonica. Even elemental gun damage is determined by your strength stat.

Levelling up is also going to be tough on you if you keep a full party out at all times. Magnetite isn't in the game, but I strongly suggest putting one or two demons away some times regardless, to keep ahead of the enemies you're fighting.

Otherwise just keep fusing and don't get too attached to a demon that will be shit in 5 levels and you should be good to go.
>>
>>79267412
this should be quoting this
>>79266931
>>
>>79267412
>that guy with 100hp or something at level 50
>>
>>79266278
Beadman ruined alignment discussion forever.
>>
>>79266472
>cryptic shit thats impossible to figure out and hours of grinding make a hard videogame
>>
>>79269243
>impossible to figure out
The fuck are you talking about? KMT is really straight-forward. It's also not hard at all, and doesn't require "hours of grinding".
>>
>>79269324
I meant the secrets and it does for certain bosses
>>
>>79266284
Probably Strange Journey or Kyuuyaku.
>>
>>79269426
>secrets are actually hidden well
>this is somehow a bad thing
>>
>>79266284
If... Fuck that game.
>>
Why arent you a cannibal /smtg/?
>>
>>79269663
This.
if... is ridiculously hard and Hazama is worse than Mem Aleph.
>>
>>79270225
>Hazama is worse than Mem Aleph

Its hard to believe.
>>
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>this will be never be a thing
>>
Is it worth it to try to kill the Omoikanes in DDS2?
>>
>>79271936
More than worth it, the payout is great. There's 4 Omoikane setups, so, if you get one right, you can just google what the rest are.
>>
>>79269540
>implying KMT isnt artificial difficulty: the game
actually its probably wizardry, MT1+2 snes version is actually playable
>>
>>79271936
Definitely. Much more than DDS1.
>>
>>79272019
Ok,what the heavens is artificial difficulty?
>>
>>79272706
A buzzword used by scrubs.
>>
>>79272019
SMT2 is way more fucking artificial than KMT.
>>
>>79272802
And what does it mean?
>>
>>79272706
>>79272802
Play wizardry on the nes and you'll know if artificial difficulty is a real thing or not
>>
>>79273280
git gud
>>
>>79273010
At least SMT 2 has more then 10 minutes of story total
>>
>>79272706
Artificial difficulty in Nocturne.

>Running from A to B
>Random encounter beyond your control
>5 Enemies
>All enemies attack and destroy your entire team with crits

That's what artificial is.
>>
>>79237158
uhhhhh wrong

SMT II fusion mechanics
>>
>>79273410
That you'll forget in the time it takes you to backtrack 80 million times.
>>
How many versions are there of the Normal Battle ~ Large Map?
>>
>>79273514
>>All enemies attack and destroy your entire team with crits

i misread your post
>>
>>79273140

Things that are close to impossible or impossible to avoid the first time around but trivial upon repetition are artificial difficulty, for example. Things that have one very specific way to do right that isn't hinted at well to the player would also fall into this category.
>>
>>79273514
>how do i rpg

go play mass effect, cunt.
>>
>>79273959
Most games with extreme cases of trial and error are regarded as having artificial difficulty.
I Wanna Be The Guy is the prime example, but it was made with that concept as its core feature.
>>
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>>79264248
>>
>>79266284
SH isn't really hard or easy, just balanced

IV is the easiest i've played, outside of the first hour or so where its just kind of tedious. SMT II without nerve bullets and divine retribution (which are both kind of game breaking) is incredibly hard
>>
>>79274487
Also the casino items, especially armor.
>>
>>79273514
hahahaha what a fag

Nocturne had save points in dungeons dude, don't be such a pussy
>>
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>>79274638
>It's okay to have shitty game mechanics, you just have to save a lot because the game is bullshit.

Look, I enjoy Nocturne, but you have to admit it has its bullshit parts.
>>
>>79274737
>enemies can kill you
>somehow this is a bullshit mechanic

scrubs pls go.
>>
>>79273580
alright thats true the backtracking is annoying
>>
>>79274925
Am I being baited or something?
>>
>>79275000
And taking an elevator for two minutes.
>>
>>79274737
are you a P4__fag?
>>
>>79275267
>Types like a retard
>Thinks his opinion matters
>Reading comprehension of a squirrel.
>>
>>79274091

Tryhard shitters need not apply to game mechanic discussions.

On hard in nocturne that situation is possible to run into but I would say if you're dying in an ambush on normal, it's probably player error. Before the player starts finding enemies with mudo in the assembly of nihilo, NPCs around Ginza or Ikebukuro will tell the player that Nihilo has demons with those skills. There are other examples of this where NPCs indicate what kind of shit the player will be running into through the game, that's just the only example I remember specifically. Hints drop off as time goes on because the player is supposed to be getting better at skill selection and team building to be better protected from shit in the first place, but the inflated prices and deflated macca/exp make that harder as well.

A lot of the added difficulty in an Atlus RPG will be of the artificial kind, which is why those difficulty options sometimes don't open up until the game has been beat once, since pitting players against that shit the first time around isn't a way to create fun.
>>
>>79274737
oh I see, when you wipe out the entire enemy formation before they can even take a single action, it's satisfying and nice

but when the same thing happens to YOUR team it's suddenly bullshit and a bad mechanic
>>
>>79275339

inflated prices and deflated macca/exp on hard mode, that should say
>>
>>79275425
>Comparing a player doing everything perfectly to computer controlled AI.
>>
>>79275514
Then just edit/hack the values and put the Normal mode prices
>>
>>79275425

Depends. Did I set my team up to kill things in the first round in the area I'm in? Did I have the options and was I given the foreknowledge of what I would be up against in the the area to avoid having the same done to me?

Battles don't exist in a vacuum when determining if they're bullshit. The circumstances bear looking at as well.
>>
>>79275543
what do you mean "do perfectly"

we're talking about crits. if you get lucky and crit a bunch and get a bunch of press turns, you're happy

but if the enemies crit you and take extra actions suddenly it's a fucking bullshit mechanic

such a double standard
>>
>>79275597
or just play normal
>>
Is DDS2 Satan NG+ only?
>>
So, was SMT IV actually good? I never bothered to follow discussions of it that much because i'm a yuropoor
>>
>>79275910
Hard mode only, so you can fight him in a first playthrough if you imported data.
>>
>>79275932
Yes, it's great.
>>
>>79275932
Yeah, it's good. It's kind of full of SMT1 throwbacks though, so make sure you've beaten or at least played that first.
>>
>>79275932
Failed to live up to it's predecessor.
>2d sprites
>no dungeons
>first person battle
>awful graphics
>handheld
>DLC
>edgy soundtrack
>>
>>79276047
I did exactly that, sweet. Thank you.
>>
>>79275713

It's not necessarily a double standard. You have to consider the map and the circumstances. How many battles is the player going to be fighting from one save point to the next? What are the chances they'll be ambushed? What can they do to prevent ambushes, in terms of items or skills? If a player who has taken every precaution available can be wiped out in one battle from full health/mana you're not really creating fun.

The player being at least a little stronger than your average group of mooks is a core aspect of most RPGs, otherwise why do we give a shit about our protagonist? What makes him special?
>>
>>79275910
Hard mode only, which means unless you imported a DDS1 file, then it's NG+.
>>
>>79275267
How can you presume all those things by reading this type of post though? It's not like I made a stupid claim or a bunch of typos.
>>
>>79276124
All I'm saying is that if you use a mechanic and get an advantage from it, you should not be surprised or angry when the enemies do that exact same thing.
>>
>>79276095
>edgy soundtrack
I don't like you.
>>
>>79276095

>thinks DLC is worse than Nocturne! Nocturne Maniax! Nocturne Maniax Lucifer's Call! Nocturne Maniax Featuring Dante from Devil May Cry Edition! Nocturne Maniax Featuing Raidou Now Import This And Learn Mystic Script Edition!
>>
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>>79276095
>edgy soundtrack

What does that even mean?
>>
>>79276307
It means he's trying to get you to reply.
>>
>>79276047
>>79275910
You need the whole entire game to prepare the perfect party for him. If you don't you're dead no matter what.

This should help.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps2/924460-shin-megami-tensei-digital-devil-saga-2/faqs/44308
>>
>>79276371
well it worked
>>
SMT Wiki says DDS2 Parvati's weak to ice, but, she reflects ice. Should I change it?
>>
>>79276263
>>79276295
>>79276307

>actually replying
>>
>>79276470
I guess so.
>>
Wow, now i get what it means, it means that some kids should quit being scrubs and get good, challenge is bad? Go play Final Fantasy or some other crap, almost dying is where the fun is at, grinding hours for money is where the fun is at, just blazing through a boss isn't fun it's boring.
>>
>>79276263
>>79276307
>metal ost
WE want 12yo audience
>>
>>79276381
>whole game
Haha, welp. Thank you, though. I wanna try my hand and see if I can beat him.
>>
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>>79276674
>being this bait
>2018-4
>>
>>79276762
No, man. Just read that guide. The section on Satan. Hopefully, you'll see what I mean before long. And start to fear the very deep shit you're getting into...

Good luck, though. Hope you manage to survive, at least.
>>
Where's Pyro Jack in the sun?
>>
Which DLC for SMT IV is good?
>>
>>79277153
Yeah, I was already going through it. At least I'm good at doing repetitive tasks.
>>
>>79277783
none of em really. broken wings is alright if you want some more story stuff but there's nothing huge in the DLC
>>
>>79277783
The ones with the bosses and maybe the grinding DLC if your'e lazy.
>>
>>79277783
If you're really desperate, all the one with bosses. But it's not much at all, really.
>>
>>79277783
None of the DLC is really "worth it". Even the boss DLC is just a single boss fight and nothing else.
>>
>>79277783
Clipped Wings 1 and 2 are pretty good, if only for the battle music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1qS9LMuK8M

Didn't really care for The Eternal Youth and Ancient One of the Sun, just a single boss battle and a look at the aftermath of the other Tokyos.

For the Past... For the Future is basically the game's Ultimate Boss, but finishing Clipped Wings 1 and 2 is essentially mandatory, since you need demons with the pierce abilities.
>>
>>79278734
>Clipped Wings 1 and 2 is essentially mandatory, since you need demons with the pierce abilities.
Or that one grinding DLC with Aeshma, that learns magical pierces which you can fuse into other shit.
>>
>>79273959

So is the thing to free Izanami in MegaTen 1 artificial difficulty? I don't remember any hints as to what order you put the gems in.
>>
>>
>>79279645

I haven't played the game so I'm not sure. Depends on what happens if you do it wrong, like if it gives you a game over or if nothing happens and you are able to try it a different way.

If it's presented as a puzzle, those are usually designed with the idea that the player will screw up in mind so they'll usually make sure the player gets another chance to try it pretty quick. If there's no hints on what order the gems need to go in but there are hints that there are some gems and they have to be used a certain way to progress, that could just be the game testing the player's memory and process of elimination skills.
>>
>>79273140
It means nothing. All games are artificial, therefore all difficulty is artificial.

If you don't like "artificial difficulty", then what are you doing in /smtg/? Literally every SMT game except Persona 4 is rife with it. It's part of the charm that we like about the games.
>>
>>79281113

Well it kicks you out of the room when you mess up and you have to wait until the next full moon (or new moon, I'm not sure) to try again.
>>
>>79281153

Not really. There's not actually that much on a given game's normal mode, and when it's there it's not really part of the charm.
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>>79281575
Except other people seemed to be counting extra bosses like Elizabeth, and not just playing the game normally on normal mode, so yes, all the SMT games are rife with "Artificial Difficulty". Teleporter mazes, damage tiles, level loss spells. It's all there to extend play time and "artificially" inflict damage on your characters, yet it's fun because it doesn't pull any punches and hold your hand like a baby final fantasy game or something.
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>>79281835

You're putting scare quotes around these words but you're not using a consistent definition of them. I don't really think you understand what artificial difficulty is.
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>>79282029
Because as I said, it doesn't mean anything. The definition you give it is not consistent either.

>Things that are close to impossible or impossible to avoid the first time around but trivial upon repetition are artificial difficulty, for example.
That's literally any challenge in any video game. Goomba kills you the first time you see one in Super Mario? Now you know. Don't touch those. ARTIFICIAL DIFFICULTY.

>Things that have one very specific way to do right that isn't hinted at well to the player would also fall into this category.
These are called "secrets". They're specifically designed to sell strategy guides. You're free to think of it as bad design but this whole "artificial difficulty" bullshit needs to stop.
>>
>>79281835

Artificial difficulty isn't damage tiles, artificial difficulty is unmarked damage tiles that kill you, with no way to discern the difference between the two besides trial and error.

Not even level loss spells are necessarily artificial difficulty, although depending on the level curve of the game and what being a lower level will prevent you from doing, it could be a different type of unfun mechanic.

If you get some masochistic enjoyment from level drain I won't tell you to stop having fun but it's not hard to see why games don't do that shit as much anymore.
>>
>>79280192
Make a macca beam one.
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>>79282662
That's my point though. You're making the distinction here based on your own experiences. Based on what's killed YOU, and what's frustrated YOU. It's going to be different for others. All those things I've named are things that I've heard people refer to as artificial difficulty. Same with Hama/Mudo.

And /smtg/ is all about getting masochistic enjoyment from unfair dungeon crawlers. Lurk more.
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>>79282376

And how much progress does our hypothetical player lose when they die to their first goomba? Can they develop goomba jumping skills to avoid touching them and be better about jumping on them? Are there identical goombas for whom these rules are reversed, which will once again require trial and error and memorization?
>>
Okay anons, need your help again. We need to switch all images tagged with soul_hackers to devil_summoner_soul_hackers

If an image is tagged with both, please remove the soul_hackers tag.

http://smtg.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=soul_hackers
>>
>>79282910
So now it's entirely based upon time investment? Just admit it's subjective and go home.
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>>79282886

Just because others are wrong about what artificial difficulty is doesn't mean there isn't such a thing as artificial difficulty. By denying it's existence, it's harder to give SMT games fair due for times when they create real difficulty.
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>>79282947
why use the longer tag

I like soul_hackers better

Don't tell me you're also going to use
"devil_summoner_raidou_kuzunoha_vs_the_soulless_army"
>>
>>79283251
shin_megami_tensei_devil_summoner_raidou_kuzunoha_vs_the_soulless_army for the NA version
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>>79283060

That's not at all what I said.

It's based mostly on skill development, consistency and presentation of information to the player. Time investment comes in when determining what happens to the player when they lose. Dying to a goomba because you didn't know to jump on it isn't even a game over. That's why mario has a lives system.
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>>79283196
Those others would say it's you that's wrong. Who are you to say that you're definitively right?
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>>79283251
soul_hackers will be an alias. If you search soul_hackers, you'll find all images tagged with devil_summoner_soul_hackers once i turn the alias on.

devil_summoner_raidou_kuzunoha will be the tag for the raidou games.
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>>79282886
>lurk more

>muh secret club

What if I told you the tryhard shitter club you think you belong to doesn't even exist?
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>>79283607
oh, okay.
>>
>>79283536
>That's why mario has a lives system.
RPGs have a game save system, which is arguably more forgiving than a lives system. But of course everything in an RPG is on a longer scale, so a death in an RPG naturally results in a greater loss of time invested. How much time is "too much" varies greatly from person to person, given that there are some people who refuse to play even easier RPGs because of how much time is required.
>>
>>79283718
>Lurk more implies secret club

What?
>>
>>79283592

Me. I am. Because I'm presenting a better case based on better evidence.
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>>79283873
You haven't presented any evidence, you've just said a lot of words.
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>>79283814

Getting Sacrifices in SJ or other items which eat instant death attacks for you are an interesting way of creating a pseudo "lives" system, and there's skills like endure as well.

Lives or save points, it's just a way of determining what happens to the player when they lose. In dragon quest you typically just lose half your money and get teleported back to town (with all party members dead in the more recent games). Progress in terms of EXP is functionally impossible to lose but it requires far more to actually level up so that gold loss is still a big deal.
>>
>>79283934

You do know what a priori means, yes? You're not asking for empirical evidence of a design concept?
>>
>>79283718
Lurking is the best thing anyone can learn.
>>
I think Level Loss is perfectly fair.

If it was permanent STAT LOSS, that would be unfair as fuck since it permanently screws over your character with no way to reverse it. But because it's just level loss, you can just level back up again, with the experience required to level up again not increasing. You will be max level long before the end of KMT anyway.
>>
>>79284327
If we're comparing platformers and Strange Journey, then Sacrifices are more equivalent to powerups or shields because you don't lose any progress if they get eaten. In an RPG, you have to die in battle in order to lose progress, which is why a game over is equivalent to a death in a platformer. However, in an RPG, you get unlimited retries and can set your respawn point at a variety of locations and times. In a platformer, your respawn point is often fixed at the beginning of the level, or at a checkpoint. Furthermore, if you lose too many lives, the game will sometimes flat-out force you start again from level 1.

I've already beaten level 1 a thousand times; why should I be forced to play it again? That's just a waste of my time, and I want to be back at the part where I just died. If anything, Super Mario Bros has more artificial difficulty than Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry™ series.
>>
>>79284839

Mario keeps track of points though, a demonstration of player skill being one of the points of the game. Losing progress has less meaning in a game like that because you're supposed to demonstrate consistency in overcoming obstacles to get a high score. Repetition and possibly competition are encouraged by the genre. It's one reason platformers are the most popular speedrun genre, although there are those who will do it with RPGs.

The speedruns of RPGs I've seen rely a lot more on knowledge of game mechanics/bugs and action order than reflexes and timing, also.
>>
>>79284839
>I've already beaten level 1 a thousand times; why should I be forced to play it again? That's just a waste of my time, and I want to be back at the part where I just died

You're treating video games like a movie or book that randomly impedes you from finishing it. It's not like that. It's like if you were playing football and you say "look, we've played the first half of the game a million times, let's just skip to half-time."

If you think being forced to play through a part of a video game is a waste of your time, then maybe you don't enjoy video games as much as you think you do.
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>>79284632
What's max level on KMT? is it the same in MT1 as it is in MT2?
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>>79285542
75 in MT1. I don't know about MT2.
>>
I don't think SMTIV gets enough praise for its attention to detail. I'm on my first replay of the game and I'm just astounded by how often NPC dialogue changes and how much shit I missed the first time through
>>
>>79285775
Same deal with Raidou 1.
>>
>>79285863
I can't be assed to replay that game though because of the encounter rate
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>>79285428
You're taking my argument too literally. Think about if Nocturne had a lives system. You start out with five lives, and if you get five game overs, you have to start over from the beginning of the game. Wouldn't you think that's unreasonable? You don't really gain anything from replaying the Shinjuku Hospital level over and over again. That's a challenge you've already overcome.

Football isn't really analogous, because it's a competition between people. There's not a real measure of "progress" that makes sense. If you defeat another team in a tournament, there's no real system in place that allows you go back and compete with them again within the same tournament. When someone calls for a rematch, it's usually under the pretense that circumstances are different. It's not like playing the first level of Mario over and over again.
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>>79286045
>Think about if Nocturne had a lives system. You start out with five lives, and if you get five game overs, you have to start over from the beginning of the game. Wouldn't you think that's unreasonable? You don't really gain anything from replaying the Shinjuku Hospital level over and over again. That's a challenge you've already overcome.

except mario also has 3 continues and chances to gain extra lives
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>>79285775
>Defeating enemies with different types of magic destroys the sprite in different ways
SMTIV got so many tiny things right
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>>79286287
That's cool as fuck too. I love how finishing an enemy off with a gun riddles them with bullets and then blows them away
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>>79285394
I kind of ignored your post to respond to that other guy, but "demonstrate consistency" is a goal in RPG speedruns too. There's a lot of strategies that are kind of luck-based, so when you put a route together you don't want to choose strategies that will result in completing the game only 1 in 2000 times. You want somewhat consistent strategies so that there's a reasonable expectation that you'll complete the game, though it's good to have YOLO strats in your back pocket anyway, just in case you're barely behind pace for a new personal best, or need to make up time in a race somehow.

>>79286178
>except mario also has 3 continues and chances to gain extra lives
are you saying that if Nocturne had these things, it would be a reasonable game design choice?
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>>79286045
I would think it's unreasonable, but not for the reasons you do. I would be upset at the tens of hours of lost progress that I'd invested in my character. There's a huge difference between 20 hours of time investment lost in an RPG and 3 hours lost from a platformer.

The thing is, a single player video game is a competition as well. It's you versus the game. If you beat the game, you "win". Some developers are moving away from that philosophy these days with cinematic games that are more like interactive movies, but others are sticking true to it. Playing the first level of mario can be different every time. You can get hit somewhere, lose or gain a powerup, die twice and only have one life remaining for the next level, and how you make it through that level affects how you'll go through the rest of the game.
>>
What does all this shit even mean?
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>>79286792
It means the game has no VWF
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>>79286045

I wouldn't look at "the shinjuku hospital level" as a level in the same way World 1-1 is for mario. In the sense that you can constantly get xp and macca, you do get stronger to carry yo towards the end of the game, if that's the level of risk you want. You can also pick up cheap fusion fodder if that's what you're looking for.

>Football isn't really analogous, because it's a competition between people. There's not a real measure of "progress" that makes sense. If you defeat another team in a tournament, there's no real system in place that allows you go back and compete with them again within the same tournament

If the tournament is double elimination, you could see people or teams play each other multiple times. Depends on the sport or event. Things are pretty rarely "winner take all" after one event though; basketball, soccer, hockey, baseball, starcraft, Counterstrike, all have "best of" series.

They do in a sense replay the same things in order to measure consistency of skill.
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>>79286657
You seem to have a much more goal-oriented perspective than I do. I don't care about being forced to start over if the content is different. The "investment" doesn't really mean anything, I just don't like being forced to waste time doing things I already did.

For example, I enjoy roguelikes, and a death in those can represent an extreme loss of time invested. But I'm fine with that, because when I start over, the game is different. I'm not being forced to overcome challenges I've already overcome.
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>>79286792
it's gachimuchi gear
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>>79286792
They're equipment. The Mars symbol means males can equip it.
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>>79286792

Headgear
Survival es
Leather Gov
Leather Bot

what's not to get?
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>>79286792
dont bother with buying gear that early in the game, it barely makes a difference at all
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>>79286957
Yeah, but in double elimination, you aren't being forced to re-compete with the same team because you lost further up the ladder and need to make back progress. It doesn't really make sense.
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>>79286897
Huh?

>>79287012
Yeah, I get that. It's everything else I don't understand.

>>79287061
Why is the dude symbol between the letters? What's with all the A's? What is a Survival es, or a Leather Gov for that matter?
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>>79286426
>>79286287

I think Soul Hackers did that too.
>>
>>79287446
The equip names are too long for the space so they go over (or rather, under) the symbols and other elements. It's Survival Vest, Leather Boots, Leather Gloves. This isn't that hard to figure out, anon.
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>>79210660
>trying to be more focused lately
>trying not to fap
>been a while
>check catalog
>see this thumbnail
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>>79287724
Maybe if you had some prior knowledge to why things are that way. To someone who has no idea, it just looks like a nonsensical mess.
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>>79287565

Yeah. It was most noticeable with physical attacks though.
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>>79288006
How can you fap to characters you do not even know about? I must know their background before fapping to anime girls.
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>>79288051
Or, you know, just prior experience with translation patches not being entirely perfect.
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>>79288051
it IS a pretty shitty translation in general, added llines that weren't there originally, a bunch of gamebreaking bugs and glitches, etc
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>>79288115
I'm the same way. It's not that I can't but it's more like I get a lot more enjoyment if I know the character
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>>79288328
>it IS a pretty shitty translation in general, added llines that weren't there originally

Like what? As far as I know it's pretty darn accurate. It sure beats the hell out of the ""official"" iOS version's translation
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>>79288227
That would be bundled with what I had originally said. No need for the snarky remarks.

>>79288328
Ah, alright. Is that including the Orden patch?
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>>79288561
Part of the reason the official iOS translation is so bad is because the iOS japanese version is censored from the original, so it seems like ATLUS USA toned things down, when they didn't, that was ATLUS japan.
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>>79288586
Not the bugs, no.
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>>79288645
They also cut some dialog completely for the sake of saving space. I just read a blog about this last night; both Thorman and Gotou's speeches are cut down significantly
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>>79288645
>because the iOS japanese version is censored from the original
And what is your source for that?
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>>79288796
Yeah there's that. They had the ability to add text boxes but apparently still decided to use it as sparingly as possible.

>>79288834
Source is having played both versions.
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>>79289034
>>79288796

I'm fairly sure it's the exact opposite. Aeon Genesis embellished the script but the ATLUS translation is more accurate.
>>
>>79289034
>Source is having played both versions.
That's not very convincing. Don't take it personally, but I don't tend to believe random anons say and would prefer more solid confirmation.
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>>79289342
And what is your source for that?
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>all of my demons in DeSu2 are qt girls

i-i didn't even plan it this way I swear
>>
>>79289485
Are you some kind of demon pimp?
>>
>>79289485
Don't worry Anthony, we believe you.
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>>79289342
Japanese is vague enough in general that you can embellish a script and it would still be an accurate translation. The opposite is also true, of course.

Fan translations tend to take more risks, though.
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>>79289485
I believe you anon. It's a very natural thing after all.
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>>79289342
Not from what I hear.
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>>79289485
It's okay, the actual girls of DeSu 2 aren't much to care for, anyway
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>>79288561
just one example is the part where the demon rips a guys throat out, there was a blog with an image walkthrough that compared the two english translations
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>>79289034
>Source is having played both versions.
But did you play the original SNES version in Japanese?
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>>79289445
If I remember right, a Japanese speaking anon took a look at the original SNES Japanese script. Turns out Aeon Genesis missed with it a bit. An example is making the Law Hero sound like an asshole.
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>>79289753
you talking shit about my waifu?
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>>79290319
I wanna fuck that bellybutton
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>>79290405
rama pls
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>>79290268
This is true, he's very polite in the original version
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>people arguing over SMT1 again

Guess I need to repost from yesterday.

Anyway in Japan the PSX versions are definitive anyway, they are advertised as such on the Japanese PSN Store and they definitely are from gameplay and visual perspective.
GBA version is a downgrade in pretty much every single way compared to SNES and PSX versions, and iOS is a port of the GBA version.

As for censorship, it's not as much "censored" as it's toned down. A lot messages are cut out due to ATLUS USA being either lazy or stupid, can't tell. They had the ability to add new text boxes but they chose not to, so I say they were censoring and being lazy at the same time.

Here's a very good article by a person very fluent in Japanese and most likely an actual Japanese since he knows history of Japan well that compares the Aeon Gensis translation, Atlus USA iOS translation and original Japanese script and points out the censorship in Atlus USA version.

STUPID SHIT WON'T LET ME POST THE LINKS, FUCK YOU MOOT, WHY THE FUCK CAN'T WE POST BLOGSPOT LINKS?

Links in the pastebin here because moot is a faggot:
http://pastebin.com/hHpguVR6

Read all of it to have a good idea.

tl;dr
Atlus USA iOS translation is toned down, but "more faithful" in that it didn't add new text that wasn't originally there so to speak. It is however censored/toned down and does have text completely cut in some places for no reason.
AG translation is more "embellished" but as such offers much more enjoyable experience. It's also worth noting that the embelishment is due to the nature of Japanese language leaving a lot to interpretation in translation, so in a way it's still accurate, just interpreted differently.

>inb4 that's a long tl;dr
Much shorter than 4 giant walls of text.
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>>79279617
You get Aeshma by defeating both Clipped Wings DLCs, not one of the grinding ones.
>>
>>79290685
Yes. The example they give here is really good:

1. ???????????
2. Ore wa "kami" ga nigate de ne.
3. Literal: I'm no good with God.
4. DS: God's no friend of mine.
5. Overclocked: I follow no god.

All three are accurate translations. But they have vastly different implications, and affect the way the reader understands the story. AG took the approach 5 most often with SMT1, while ATLUS took approach 3 most often with the iOS version.
>>
>>79290685
as definitive as it is, the only translation is for the snes. amazing. why waste time on that one?
>>
>>79291029
Literal translations are almost always the worst type of translations. They are generally very frowned upon by professionals, especially when it comes to books.

>>79291126
Because AG has been working on translating the game since the 90s and released it only in 2002? And iOS version is the worst one by the way.
>>
>yfw at the end of P5 they defeat nyarly, which releases door-kun as Aleph
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>>79290268
It may have just been awkward phrasing of what Law Hero wanted to say though.
>>
>>79291541
I thought that was really obvious. When I hear him say "try not to feel to bad", I don't hear him saying it in an asshole voice, I hear him saying it in a sympathetic voice, like "don't worry, it'll be okay", that kind of thing. He's trying to console him but not doing the best job at it.
>>
>>79290268
That's just you interpreting it wrong since it's black text with no voice or facial emotions to go with it.
It's meant to be a very awkward way of trying to cheer your friend up.
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>>79291448
No Nyarly here.
>>
Are there any translations for the PSX remakes?
>>
>>79291448
>yfw in the middle of P5 they open door-kun and walk inside to find themselves in Nocturne where the protagonist becomes Demifiend and everyone else becomes Nocturne's NPCs, and after getting TDE he goes on to battle the DDS cast and also door-kun is returned to normal
>>
>>79291657
Same. It's funny to think he's an asshole, but really the guy just wanted to do right by everyone. He just happened to be incredibly awkward due to how serious he could be, like in that one visionary item with his girlfriend.
>>
>>79291804
There is one in progress for SMT1 that will maybe come out by the end of the year
>>
>>79291817
>the door opens up into naraku
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>>79291943
Is it that hard to just insert the fixed AG translation into the PSX version?
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>>79292102
Romhacking is no joke
>>
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>>79292013
lewd
>>
>>79291541
I wonder if it's only non-native english speakers who think he sounds like an asshole when he says this.
>>
>>79292102
Yes.
For starters SMT1 snes script is a fucking mess. SMT2 and If will be much easier to do.
Script problems aside, we still need VWF done, but currently Devil Summoner has priority on that.
>>
>>79291943
why don't they just fucking translate If...
>>
>>79292298
Someone's already doing that. It may even be released as soon as November.
>>
>2014
>if... translation still not released
>you will never experience the greatest MegaTen of all time in english
>>
>>79292298
A fixed re-release of SMT1 (SNES) with backported If... improvements and a release of SMT If... (SNES) should come out by the end of the year as well.
Those are AG's projects.
PSX is being made by Canzah and EsperKnight, AG is only lending his script.
>>
>>79292428
Isn't it hard as fuck?
>>
>>79292648
>If...
>Hard
>>
>>79291448
>most people playing it dont know who the fuck that is
>implying atlus would make such an "obscure" reference (not really obscure, just not ... known by casuals)
>>
>>79292169
I'm not too sure about that. Even all of the ellipses would imply there's a lot of silence inbetween what he said, so he was definitely trying to find the right words. He just failed spectacularly.

And with AG's embellishments, I kind of wonder if cultural differences made it necessary to phrase things like they did so the situation would seem more natural to us. Like with Chaos Hero's outburst around here. The situation was changed slightly in their translation to make it so that Chaos Hero was getting on Law Hero for being so damn awkwardly insensitive, whereas in the original it was that he was so quick to try consoling Hero. We don't really have that "sparing someone their dignity" mentality, so it would seem like the bigger dick move to just ignore someone grieving. I'm probably reading too much into it though.
>>
>these pitfalls on the last floor of Infini

Man, I never liked shit like this cause it's just tedious. It's not challenging since I can just auto the battles at this point. If there were some way to tell where they were then that would be fine but there isn't.
>>
>>79293032
>reference
It would set up SMT V
>>
>>79291541
where is that translation note pop up from?
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>>79291448

Just like how ME was Nyarly right?
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>>79286792
Shit that's impossible to make look good without some heavy hacking.
Either you limit the character printing to 8 (so there is a space between the last character of the item and the gender symbols), or you put a VWF and somehow fit every item into that tiny space.

>>79287446
VWF = Variable Width Font
SMT1 and SMT2 fonts are of fixed width, so every character has a fixed width of 8x8 (or 12x12 for SMT2's text boxes).
See >>79291541 and how "awkward" is condensed while "ill" has a lot of spacing between letters. "w" is wide and "i" is very thin, but since each occupies a 8x8 space they have the same width.

Notice how this doesn't happen in KMT >>79241159
KMT did originally have a fixed width font because most Japanese characters have the same width, but the translator hacked a VWF into the game.
This way the text looks a lot better and you can fit a lot more text in screen.
>>
>>79292715
>having to kill yourself to advance is hard
>>
>>79293170
After how P4U2's story went, I'm pretty glad that wasn't Nyarly.
>>
>>79292431
Actually the end of this year or are we operating on AG time
>>
>>79293137
but purseowner and shin megoomy tensay are two different series with some similarities
>>
>>79293648
Yeah it was a blessing in the end
>>
>>79293197
>SMT1 and SMT2 fonts are of fixed width
FYI, so is If... in original Japanese.
>>79293683
Actually end of this year.
SMT1 re-release with If...'s improvements (like VWF) and fixed bugs and If... itself.
SMT2 will be next year.

PSX is on "when it's done" mentality but I'd love to get it out before end of the year, however that only depends on Esper at this point and Devil Summoner takes priority.
>>
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W-well then...
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>>79293197
I heard Gideon say on stream that he was going to put VWF into If... but it was too much hassle so he decided against it.
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>>79293908
best MILF
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>>79293867
>If...'s improvements
so press shoulder button to open map and smt 2 UI will be in smt 1?
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>>79293989
Outdated and incorrect. VWF is already in the game.
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>>79293782
There are still ways to explain it.

Maybe something happened when creating the other side, I don't know
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>>79294078
>Outdated
It was like 3 weeks ago. I know there are screenshots that have it, but maybe he meant he's not putting it everywhere in the game.
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>>79293782
SMT If... and Purseowner are in the same universe though
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>>79294014
There already is a patch for that, you can apply it on top of Orden's version.
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>>79294235
it fucks up the mapper spell though
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>>79293163
Not sure, I saved it from here a long time back. There were some others for different parts of the game - I think it was Orden who posted them.
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>>79294235
found one for the shoulder button thing on romhacking
not for the UI though
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>>79294354
Why the fuck would you need the mapper spell when you have the map though?

>>79294576
There isn't one for UI.
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>>79294648
>Why the fuck would you need the mapper spell when you have the map though?
Because having it on-screen is faster and more convenient than going into the map screen? And because dark areas are visible in mapper but not on the map.

A bug is a bug. It's a bad thing no matter how you spin it.
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>mfw im enjoying KMT gameplay wise more then SMT 1 and 2
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>>79294869
I felt that way too.
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>That feel when there is no Doujino about Maya or Lisa
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>>79295450
felt? so you dont feel this way anymore? 2nd attempt at the minotaur right now, first time yumiko ran out of mp so i had no way of healing
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>>79295731
Did you not have any jewels?
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>>79295731
Felt that way until I reached the sea of fire.
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So SMT3 takes place after SMT2 in the timeline, but is in an earlier year, right?
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Oh boy, finally I'm near the end.
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>>79295884
wait jewels are life stones? fuck i thought they were just precious stones (emeralds, diamonds,etc) for negotiations
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>>79296118
That's what I thought too, then I saw it in the item menu and tried it out, it's a healing item (life stone equivalent I assume)
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>>79295908
so uh...
is it a huge ass overly convoluted maze?
one of those dungeons where you have to really manage MAG?
Enemies paralize your whole party all very easily?
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>>79296320
>your whole party all very easily
why did i write all there? seriously...
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Play Shin Megami Tense II, and I'm about to head into the Center after traveling to the Abyss and taking that one guy to the Siren. How much more do I have?
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Are Megami Tensei I and II part of the overall timeline?

None of the theoretical timelines seem to have it
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>>79296320
It's a Sea of Fire. What does it sound like?
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>>79296493
About 20-40 hours depending on (huge spoiler)how many social links you complete lel
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>>79296581
SMT is the spiritual successor to Megami Tensei, but the canons don't intersect at all because Atlus didn't write the Digital Devil Story novels
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>>79296581
They are disconnected. The only loose connection is a reference in SMT1 about a Mr. Nakajima giving hero his dog. Some people jump on that and say that makes them connected, but most people agree they're not.
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>>79296627
>lel
Anon, please. The "it's cool to say lel" phase is over.
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>>79296493
You still have a long way to go, since you haven't even visited the Abyss from the "main entrance".
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So I've been reading the EPP extra scenario here:
http://pastebin.com/uiqvLAcV

And I was wondering, where exactly does it say that demons are gone. People seem to be under the impression that this scenario explains P3 and P4 not having demons in it anymore, but I didn't see anything about that. What are people talking about?
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>>79296581
>>
That wasn't too hard at all.
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>>79296752
top kek
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>>79297449
maam joj
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Do i come back later? What is this guy for?
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>>79296581
It is set in its own universe and has no real connection to the others.

>>79296902
That SJ to IV doesn't make sense.
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