/domg/ - Dominions General

Is there some way to use secondshape or xpshape such that you can recruit a unit/commander for gold, but the very turn you get it it turns into a unit that has no goldcost, and thus no upkeep?

I'm trying to make that Four Clans nation idea that was posted here a while ago and I'm all but certain that 0g thug/SC chassis were not what was intended.

Shinuyama my friend I am going to need you to move out of 40 as I plan to have that land. For your loss I am willing to give you 30 water gems. If that deal does not work for you I am sure we can come to some form of agreement

>>128175940
Yes, there is. I'm not sure what it is, but the Warhammer Ogre mod does that for maws to get them to become stationary units.

>>128176823
Great, thanks! I guess I'll check out that mod file then.

>>128175940
You can do something hacky like give a special landshape to a non-amphibious unit, but then if it gets into water somehow the jig is up (unless you also give it a special watershape)

Or I wonder what #firstshape could do here - it's what a monster that is "ok" turns back into. Theoretically a just-recruited monster is ok? Not sure how this work

Or maybe xpshape 0 would work, as a thing is recruited with 0 exp.

Try shit, let us know.

So, I don't know if anybody else noticed, but now that Dagon has earth magic and grab and swallow (which works on trample), he's actually a really good expander.

Shame he's 3000 points.

Atlantis is officially a cuck nation.

Regards,
Vanheim.

>>128173048
It's still worth the 100 pearls to try.

>>128175975
I want to look at my turn before I say anything about that. But, If it's a cave I can work something out for sure.

I just got off work so give me a little while (1 to 2 hrs unfortunately)

>>128179918
100 pearls and a chance to get your S9 caster horrormarked.

Unless you are doing it my way and empowered from zero, but then it's not worth 100 gems and not really worth trying.

>>128175010
>>128175327

Units only heal to full HP once per turn (assuming they don't have disease or the no-heal tag etc), so all damage dealing spells and so on stack.

Is anyone going to kill NoWeebs Skeleton?

>>128175940
Shapeshifting uses the gold cost of whatever shape you're in at the time for upkeep. So you could make a useless initial form with the proper gold cost and let the player shapeshift it into the proper version once recruited for zero upkeep.

It obviously isn't ideal and requires the player to do a bunch of micro, but I tested it by making Jotun Skrattir's werewolf have no upkeep and it seems to work.

If we added a second shape to cavalry that was just the horse that was undisciplined and had varying levels of morale depending on the aptitude of the rider it would make cavalry fairly worthwhile.
Or maybe if it's moddable a chance of the rider surviving instead of the animal.

>>128187321
God no, second shape horses are a terrible idea.

>>128187595
I know we were on pg10 and I have no dominoes pictures on my phone so I posted the first random shit to come to mind.

>>128187321
Why is second shape for cavalry the mount rather than the guy riding it, anyway?

>>128187595
>second shape horses are a terrible idea.
Why?

>>128187985
What are you going to kill the rider or the horse? Also there is precedence with Turan griffins.

As for why it's a terrible idea, it would take a shitload of balancing coding and spriting for an overall kind of crappy fix.

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I'm making the Deviant sprite right now, and I have a question. I want to add tentacles (to provide representation for the tentacle weapons she'll have), but it makes the sprite look really crowded. Should I simply not add tentacles, or should I be more selective about the tentacles I'm using?

>Tfw I obliterate two double blessed armies back to back using nine mages and 32 heavy infantry.

>>128190386
P
O
S
T

R
E
P
O
R
T
S

>>128190386
What the other guy said

>>128187985
Because we already have second shape tigers and they are actually really shitty while being objectively better than horses.

You really don't want a shitty unit with one 13 damage hoof attack that cant hurt anything hogging the frontline slots while your expensive cavalry is stuck behind it and gets blasted by evos.

>>128188604
>What are you going to kill the rider or the horse?
Historically, usually the horse.

>>128191293
That makes sense, I guess. Would making them work like Zhayedans rather than tiger riders make it decent?

>You really don't want a shitty unit with one 13 damage hoof attack that cant hurt anything hogging the frontline slots while your expensive cavalry is stuck behind it and gets blasted by evos.
Wouldn't the horses make it more evocation resistant, not less? They'd have better hp density and provide an extra pool of hp for enemy mages to blast at before they move onto the rest of the cavalry.

>>128190815
>>128190890
No, then people will know that there was next to no mage support in one of them and I wont get to feel cool anymore.

>>128175975
oh shit had no idea that was your cap ring m80.
you can have it literally for free.

>>128192123
>Wouldn't the horses make it more evocation resistant, not less
Cavalry is largely extremely fragile (applies to almost anything that rides horsest) so prolonging the time of the battle and time that your elite units aren't facing the enemy is not a good thing. Cavalry needs to be doing that damage before it turns into mush.

>>128193452
Thank you my friend for being such a good sport about it, if you need gold or gems at a future date feel free to ask and it will be done.

>>128193895
I lost a freespawned bandit taking it so it wasn't a huge deal anyways, besides us shitastic nations have to stick together.

I completed my first draft of an overhaul mod (haven't touched nations yet). Lots of various balance components, but the goal was to make a lot of the crappier things worth using sometimes, and a few of the very very good things slightly less good. This is the first version, and revision is going to be ongoing for a while, so tell me which parts are bad and why.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7AI19pZwWqBWEZ4dFNuY0lKVTA/view?usp=sharing

>>128195412
Comment-friendly changelog here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10xPz7ZKUhR3avOCwbAr7XKdt5wMmJbEm4J-WNHyQ160/edit#

>>128195503
I fucking love the moonblade now. it actually fills a niche and is useful.

>>128195412
>>128195503
>+1% income prod, -1% income growth
HE ACTUALLY DID IT
THE
ABSOLUTE
MADMAN

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Someone said I should spruce up the attack sprites for the Moriyas, so I did.

>>128196362
oh shit

I actually retracted the prod scale change. Let me go fix that.

I'm using the /domg/ balance mod 1.08 but all the cavalry costs still seem expensive as fuck. MA pythium has 50+ gold/resource cataphracts, which is just ridiculous.

Did the mod touch cavalry costs at all?

>>128197056
>MA pythium has 50+ gold/resource cataphracts
All the dying shape cavalry are fairly expensive.

>>128197056
because you're buying the serpent. The lance charge that comes with it is just a bonus

>>128197056
Yes. They're 60 in vanilla. They were also probably even higher before the cavalry patch that happened after it was pointed out that most cavalry were inexplicably more expensive than comparable units.

Ziggy Stardust is kill
Just like this general

>>128195503
>changelog is 19 pages long
wtf

>>128195503
some way of getting a supply bonus without N magic would be really nice.

>>128197174
serpent cataphracts dont have dying shape though?

>>128197261
well the serpent is just a poison bite that does stun damage only so its actually worse than a regular horse.

>>128196496
Playable when

>>128196362
NOPE

IT'S CHANGE AND I HATE IT

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>>128198909
k

>>128196362
>>128196553
So now Cataclysm is even more powerful since it's harder to come back from?

>>128198909
>well the serpent is just a poison bite that does stun damage only so its actually worse than a regular horse.
The stun damage is a secondary effect in addition to the physical damage.

>>128199216
no.
he didn't change the pop growth of growth merely the income bonus.

>>128198909
>serpent cataphracts dont have dying shape though?
They do, it just vanishes after the battle ends.

>well the serpent is just a poison bite that does stun damage only so its actually worse than a regular horse.
It's 15 slashing compared to 13 bludgeoning, and it has extra stun damage on top.

The troops on top are less well equipped than some cavalry, but the serpent itself is pretty great.

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Pan was right.

>>128197429
Design doc is 37.

>>128199265
Oh. Well then yeah, that's a good change.

>>128199291
i'm not seeing any shape shifting icon on the unit screen...

>>128200732
second shape =/= shapeshifting
second shape means that the unit turns into a second unit after it dies. (like Jag warriors)

>>128200937
Jags are technically wounded shape, but I'm honestly not 100% sure on the difference.

How do i make a unit have the luck ability?

>>128201137
wounded shape (I.E. secondshape) means they turn into something else when they hit 0hp, and turn back into the firstshape after battle
dying shape means the second shape dies after the battle.

>>128201387
Actually wounded shape just means that the second form stays after the battle. Most wounded shapes also have a 'natural shape' ability which means they turn into that after the battle, but some (eg spiders, cave drakes) stay in the second form.

>>128201538
So it's possible to mod a unit that has a wounded shape and then, after the battle, turns into a different unit?

If the commander has the standard ability, does it do anything? The description implies it only works if the unit is in the exact same squad...

>>128201732
Not unless it gets enslaved, wished for, or otherwise loses its commander status.

>>128200937
okay, but theres no icon for it that i can see?

>>128202414
Thereis no icon for it.

>>128202774
why?

>>128201196
cast wish

>playing MA pythium
>use communion slaves
>cast personal luck
>communion slaves DONT get the personal luck buff

The fuck? I thought communion slaves get the effects of any buffs that the masters cast?

>>128206230
The communicants don't get buffs? That's new.

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>>128199440

>>128206287

Theyre not mages and that fucks up communion mechanics.

Are Asrapas any good?

>>128208969
if you have a glut of nature gems or pearls, you can GoR them to get B1s for blood hunting. As units, they're really squishy compared to other demons, but they're otherwise not bad. Sacred, 4attacks/square, lifesteal, and berserk.

>>128208969
Yes. Their ideal bless is a bit different from the rest of Lanka's stuff, but they'll do just fine even with N9 or whatever.

>>128209269
Don't forget that they have magic weapons. Good for fog warriors and ethereal stuff.

They're also a lot cheaper than Lanka's other summons, even if less powerful individually.

C'tis Falchioneers are sick nasty.

>>128210683
They're the least shitty infantry unit they have. Unless you're up against archers.

I wouldn't call them "sick nasty" though.

>>128210918
Two, two length attacks, on a size two unit for 17 gold sounds really good to me though, lots of strength too.

>looking at the new big balance mod
>Another example is that
>One exception is that
>tfw a fucking pillar of the community barely writes at high school level

>stick mages in the back
>they still get killed by random arrows or spells

How do you keep them alive aside from crafting expensive defence items on every mage? This is assuming that they dont have access to good defense spells obviously.

Is cross breeding worth time? Do you get anything good our interesting?

>battle vestals
>literally 0 prot

Do you think giving them 13 MR, Morale and damage reversal would help? I'm not sure how to price that though.

>>128210683
>>128211660
Their stats look really good, but skellyspam and melee troops don't go well together. C'tis also doesn't have good paths for buffing troops, so I expect most people just pass them over in favor of skellyspam.

>17g
Inspector says they're 13 for me.

>>128212149
What do you mean by 'the back'? How many squares on the battlefield between your troops and your mages?

>>128212149

Use army wide buffs.

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So today I learned not to send my awake expander into Hoburgs, or Hitler here will fuck your day up.

>get a stalker in a random event
>gear him up, he eventually wins two arena matches
>have him assassinate commanders
>fights a priestess with no gear and only level 1 nature magic
>she casts some poison spell, he kills her then dies

How the fuck do you keep assassins alive. I mean yea i could have given him poison resist, but that wouldnt have helped him survive against any other mages, and they dont have enough slots to stack resists against EVERYTHING.

>>128212801
>Inspector says they're 13 for me.
Whoops, yeah 13g17r.
They work pretty decently with horde of skeletons in my experience.
>>128213964
You're not meant to keep assassins alive. That's why scelerian assassins with skeleton trinkets are the best assassins in the game. Cheap, can snipe 90% of mages or commanders, no sweat if they die or fail.

>>128210683

They're nice, but they're no Steel Maidens. Of all the infantry in the game the one I miss the most in other nations is Steel Maidens.

>>128213964

You don't. Assassins should be as cheap as possible. Ideally you should be throwing summoning items on them, because summons basically auto-win assassinations.

>>128213964
The best way to win a 1v1 in dominions is to bring friends. As many friends as possible.

Bottle of Living water gives you a size 6 water elemental.
Skull Talisman lets your assassin summon skeletons, which will hopefully wear down your enemy over time.

Those are the two most common, there are some others but they're not used much.

Spells which summon a unit to fight for you are also common in assassinations, but that requires an assassin who has magic paths.

>>128214012
>They work pretty decently with horde of skeletons in my experience.
My experience is that you either have your infantry in front and they fight the enemy first or you have your skeletons in front and your infantry get stuck behind them forever.

In the first case you already have blockers and don't really need skellyspam. In the second your melee troops don't even reach melee. Either way, something is redundant.

Death evocations and Darkness don't mix well with living troops either, but won't affect skeletons at all.

>>128212801
just behind the front line, otherwise they dont have the range to reach the enemy.

>>128214129
but most mages can one shot them if you dont give them any items.

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>>128214252
>The best way to win a 1v1 in dominions is to bring friends. As many friends as possible.
You don't get to bring friends.

>>128213964

With resistances you want to gear up against a specific target. No need to stack all resistances, just the ones you need to kill target nation. This is also true with thugs.

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>>128214435

>>128214306
Yeah, that's not good. If you absolutely must have them so close you can use arrow/evocation catchers to reduce casualties.

There really isn't a simple solution to this because scripting is complex, but here's some stuff to get you started.

>arrow catching
Simplest method is to have one or more small-medium groups of soldiers ahead of your front line. Archers target closest enemy group first (unless set to attack a specific target like enemy archers/cavalry/monsters), so they'll aim for the forward group until it dies, making the arrows go nowhere near your front line or mages.

>evocation catching
This is harder, since mage targeting is more complex.

Generally, mages target by a combination of resistance, hp density (hp per square), and range. That means you can dump a group of high-hp units (like vine ogres, for example) somewhere and the enemy mages will hopefully throw everything at them. Ideally this group will be in front of your main line, but that means enemy troops might chop them up which is undesirable because they can't eat enemy spells if they're dead.

Obviously, you want to put your own mages as far as possible from this sacrificial group.

If you don't have high-hp units available, using a screen of chaff in front of your soldiers can also absorb a decent chunk of enemy evocations even if their hp is about the same as your main troops. This happens because they're closer, so the enemy decides they can hit their spells more accurately. This method does move you a lot closer to hp-rout, so use it carefully.

>I can't be bothered doing any of that
See >>128213304

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>>128214306

Keep in mind that the enemy will also move towards you. This picture shows the size of the battlefield, with darker area being the deployment zone for both sides. From the center (C) is about 20 squares to the front of the enemy deployment zone. If you are using offensive spells with less than 20 range you are doing something wrong.

>>128215034
>and range
Do you have a source for this?
I don't believe they think about the accuracy penalty of range when trying to figure out what to target.

>>128215203
I am not that guy, but mages supposed to target someone close first. Not always. and a single unit won't be targeted, but if the sugnificant group of units standing closer than equal one on the rear it will be targeted first.

>>128215034

>Archers target closest enemy group first

To my knowledge, they do this only if they are set to target closest enemy. If they are just set to generic "fire" they should change targets as they see fit. Indies are always set to fire and attack closest. Baiting their archers works like a charm, but sometimes the melee units follow my bait and kill the commander.

>>128214374

Skull Talisman, Handful of Acorns, and Bottle of Living Water all give you an extra unit at the very beginning of the battle.

Also, mages have a habit of casting self-buffs whenever they're off script.

>>128215421
>Also, mages have a habit of casting self-buffs whenever they're off script.
Usually yes, but during assasinations they are quite more asgressive.

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One sprite down, 13 more to go!

>>128213793
That's hilarious

>>128215203
>Do you have a source for this?
Only my own experience. It's obviously very hard to rigorously test for, but I've seen mages make decisions which don't make much sense otherwise. Generally it seems they prioritize closer targets a lot.

I'd try to set up a test but I don't really have the time for that right now. If you want to try it yourself, you should find that vine ogres won't 100% draw evocations from things with much lower hp density if there's a large distance between them. I'd recommend thunderstrike, since you can be sure you're not hitting range limits.

>>128215406
I heard Fire None worked identically to Fire Closest, but I can't say I've tested it.

I've found putting a few troops out front draws a lot of arrow fire, but I mainly use that against indies.

>>128215639
what even

>>128215851
see
>>128190380
An anon made a nation idea a while ago and I'm finally taking a crack at it.
Here's a link to the whole outline: http://pastebin.com/5Ypzc6NX

>>128215697

Fire "None" is definitely not the same as Fire Closest. I've had my shortbows on Fire wade into my arrow decoys to shoot at enemy archers.

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None isn't Closest.

>>128216361
>>128216458
Ah, that sucks.

Well, decoys are still worth it just to fuck up people on fire closest.

A random chance of the enemy hitting the right squad is a lot better than a 100% chance.

>>128216107
how horrifying

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Don't mind me, just posting best hero.

>>128219448
Is that the goddess of love or that one lady that was trying to achieve enlightenment?

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>>128219826

Are there any spells that really buff mass archers beyond Flaming Arrows and Wind Guide? Like maybe some Poison arrows, or something?

>>128214676
what if you are trying to assassinate a rainbow mage?

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I know it's extremely expensive, but it's still possible which is more than I can say for any other nation, or any other cap-only.

>>128222870
Forgot to provide context, sorry: Ohlmann's UW Expanded

>>128211826
English is not his first language.

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>>128222870

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34 provinces in EA, all B9 site searched (Bowl of Blood)
>2 sites
>Brigand Lairs

>>128225450
Blood doesn't have any good sites except for the cheaper blood ritual ones.

>>128222815

Nope, archers become useless (situational) mid-late game.

>>128222870
>>128223027
>UW expanded
>DIDNT MAKE ABOLETHS AMPHIBIOUS

worthless

>>128225450
>sitesearch all my provinces with E5
>no E income

>>128225450
Blood sites are very rare; both because they have fewer sites than other paths, and because of the sites they do have most are higher than sitelevel 1, which makes them even less likely to spawn.

>>128222815

Weapons of Sharpness affects bows, I think. Quickening ups your rate of fire but is awkward on archers. You could also just focus on de-buffing the enemy with things like Destruction.

Problem is the things that counter archers at that even middling levels are really effective. Storm, Arrow Fend, anything that buffs Protection, etc.

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>>128225706
>Sitesearch provinces with a random E2 mage I got in an event
>+18 earth income on a nation with no native earth magic

Is there a way to make the damn score graphs show actual numbers?
Or to see how many provinces you have, without manually counting?

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Daily reminder that this is a no-skellingtons game.

>>128227093
Only if you're playing on llamaserver.

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>>128227806

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>start up an SP game to play around with a mod
>in just thirty provinces find
>Oak of Ages
>Nexus
>Village of Strange Men
>Statue of the Sitting God
>The Glowing Hill
>The Shrouded Lands

>>128228921
THAT'S A LOT OF ENCH

what mod

>>128229104
Ogri, Stones of Blood.
It's just a old nationmod from Dom3.

Is there any easy way to pool all items of a certain sort?

Is there any easy way to hand an item of a certain sort to a certain kind of mages?

>>128230317
No, sadly. Even unit-ID doesn't matter because, like rituals, the time of completion is randomized.

Super sorry, could I get like a eight-hour extension? Shit came up.

>>128230649
Done.

>>128223068
>>128211826
It's a first draft, calm your tits.

>>128231180
Thanks man, you're a cool guy. I'll squeeze it in earlier if I can manage to.

What does Rigor Mortis actually do? It doesn't mention so in the tooltip.

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>>128231786
you make me physically hurt

>>128231939
What does that even mean?

>>128231786
battlewide fatigue damage every turn.
5 iirc.

>>128232074
>literally have the picture 2 posts above you
>somehow get it wrong

>>128232069

Every round every non-undead unit on the battlefield flips a coin. If they flip, let's say, heads, they take 10 stun damage, plus or minus a DRN.

>>128232721
thats what it amounts to mate

>>128234970
If your intent is to make Abysia have a bad time, you'll need to hurry or there won't be anything left of him.

Because Vanheim ate him.

>>128235680
His army has been starving while throwing pebbles at my walls for like six months now.

I'm going to put those poor things out of their misery.

>>128234849
Not quite. Every turn 50% of the battlefield is selected at random and all units in one of those unlucky squares take 10 stun damage assuming they aren't undead.

>>128235901
>abysians
>starving

>>128235680
Of course they would. They're elves. Elves are inherently treacherous.

Does Midgard play like Vanheim?

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>>128238975
?

>>128239694
Not really.

How do I make a remote summon spell that makes 20 of 1 troop, and then 1 of a different commander?
effect 37 seems to just take a single unit type and makes 1 a commander, but it's the same effect Horde from Hell uses, so surely there's a way?

>>128235680

Eh, Peliwyr is a garbage map and I've got irl shit coming up more and more so I'm fine to tap out here. Handed everything I have to one of Vanheim's neighbours, so I'm sure he'll have fun with that. His entire army is marching further and further away from his cap, btw.

>>128237316

Good to know. It's never been clear to me how the game picks "50% of battlefield." I assume you're correct based on how stuff like Foul Vapors works.

>Move my main army next to province stolen by the Romans
>Rome stales

Please be a coincidence.

Why don't Therodos ghosts wear armor? Their weapons stayed with them after death.

>>128243782
Because nudity.

They do keep their shields though.

>>128243782
they use their colossal ghost dongs for intimidation

>>128245315
any vg pbem game starting soon*?

>>128246176
something about colossal dongs get you in the mood?

>>128246545
uh.. what?

>>128240652
I have sailing commanders so I'm not too concerned about strategic mobility.

>No turns

>>128243782
Speaking of therodos is DomgEA Thed around?
I figured talking about what I sent you might be important. I am very unwilling to let you have that elephant province for the reasons I stated though.

Are there any spells that remotely summon troops without any commander? Mods or vanilla.

I can't seem to do this, so I'm wondering if it exists at all.

>>128248198
The one in both our cap circles? I'd already assumed that was yours.

>>128249964
Why would you want troops without a commander?

>>128251329
Okay cool. If you can't grab coast before it all disappears I'll let you have some then.

>>128251698
Cheers, but there should be no problem. If you run into anyone unfriendly let me know.

>>128251654
To reinforce armies

But mostly modding shit, and I'm looking for something to copy.
I want to make a spell like Horde from Hell (send a commander with different troops than what he is like with devils & imps), and there's no apparent way to do that that I can see, because there's no way to remotely summon troops. The remote summon spell-effect automatically promotes one of the summoned units to Commander status which would be fine if I wanted them to all be the same thing.

>>128252118
Send lesser horror?

>>128254475
Those unfortunately use a different spell-effect (38, rather than 37) which means "send special monster allied to nobody that attacks the province and then leaves."

Horde from Hell uses effect 37 like most/all Remote Summon spells that stick around but I can't replicate its effects - if I tried to make Horde from Hell with what I seem to have, what would happen is I'd make a buncha imps (and just imps), and then 1 would be the commander. No devils.

>>128239730
No population to eat numb nuts

>>128231287
>>128223068
I don't care he's supposed to be perfect.

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The fucks this error.

>>128257704
Homie, bad m8.

Could be anything

>>128255110
What if you make it have two effects, first one devil, then the imps?

>>128257704
>bad mate

did you break a peace or something?

>>128260717
Yeah, that'd be effect 37 to remote summon a comm and then effect 1 summons units.
How that's achieved is you just have the original spell (devil remote summon) and then have it immediately trigger another spell (imp summon) with #nextspell

Problem is, if that nextspell is effect 1, it'll just spawn the damn units on the caster, as spell-effect 1 has no "range" component to it, and it's all based off the caster. If I try to use effect 37 to spawn imps, it'll automatically promote one to commander.

That leads back to me needing a remote summon for troops - then I can just nextspell into a remote troop summon, and it should (?) work. I guess nobody has any actual confirmed way to do this, though.

>>128261176
How about just summoning troops with commander and killing it instantly?

>>128261308
The comm? Is there a way to easily do that?

I could have a spell summon a lone commander with 37, have it trigger another spell with effect 37, but with the desired troops. That'd make the extra comm, but if I could just instantly kill that comm, that could work. Not sure how to do that, though

>>128261976
I don't know for sure, but you can probably summon some unique commander type that you can create beforehand with shit stats (with 0 health maybe?), and if that's not enough just trigger an assassination attempt like those other similar spells do.

>>128262148
Isn't his problem that he can't define the commander, that it promotes one unit to commander status?

>>128261976
Have a look into event modding.

If you make a special commander and link an event which kills it with 100% probability that might work.

>>128261976
Make it castable on land only, but summon an aquatic commander.

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Which dominions unit/commander/pretender has the cutest, most feminine dick?

>>128262568
Event modding could work, I guess. It just spooks me a tad, and seems a bit clumsy. I'll check into it, though

>>128262148
>>128263172
Yeah these won't work because the problem is I want a specific unit as a troop and I can only summon one specific unit with a remote summon spell - the only other thing I can change is how many are summoned. It then just makes one a commander, which I can't tell it to stop doing

I can summon a single comm that I like just fine.

>>128268348
The freak lord

>>128268357
Can't you copy Horde from Hell

Post battle reports if you got em

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>>128269213
Pretty sure that'll result in always getting a Devil comm - I can only change the unit it remotely summons (the 'damage'), which is currently ID # 303, also known as "imps".
The devil is just magically there by some other thing that I can't see, nor edit.

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Any advice on how to make it so trample units don't kick my ass?

>>128270102
The devil is the effect of the spell Horde From Hell itself. If you don't want a devil, don't use Horde From Hell.

>>128271645
You'll need muuch better scripting.

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>>128271978

>>128271668
He's trying to create a spell SIMILAR to horde from hell, but he ends up with an imp commander as well. Read the post chain slightly before replying.

Abysia, we need to chat about 17.

>>128271668
He's talking about modding, not spellcasting. It's possible to copy mechanics from spells and then change certain constants to get what you want (ie, a spell that summons a custom commander who dies).

Alternate idea: What you need is an effect that only happens to commanders.
#deserter only affects commanders according to the modding manual. Just create a custom monster with the stats you want and #desertor 100. The commander will evaporate, leaving the units.

>>128195412
New version that doesn't crash on game creation anymore!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7AI19pZwWqBWVE0bW5yMVNIcnc/view

Also some minor changes - weakened Tangle Vines scaling, removed changes to hellfire (for now), made amphiteres undisciplined again (but cheaper), made revive wights less mage efficient but slightly cheaper, fixed yari changes.

Do four armed creatures armed with 2 bows fire both?

>>128273423
Ayup.
And eight armed creatures armed with 8 throwing weapons use 'em all.

>>128273654
And 3 armed creatures armed with a fire bola, longbow of accuracy, and two pebble pouches throw all four at once.

You fire all of your ranged weapons at once, as long as you have slots for them and sufficient range.

>>128273926
Wait, really?
Neat.

>>128273926
Great, now I want to make a thug do exactly that.

>>128271645
Get some mages.

You have D1 mages, have some of them spam frighten so the elephants run away.

>>128271645
Stop using muuch. Use mages if necessary, but it probably isn't.

Also, you were fielding 500 gold of shitty infantry against 500 gold in elephants alone, and elephants are made to crush shitty infantry.

>>128273326
Keep it up sum1.
Good job, etc. I genuinely like a lot of what I see

I'm trying to get into this game but every guide I've read for various nations is quick to point out that only one or two troop types are worth building and what you actually need to be doing is just massing summons.

It's really killing my interest, what's the point of thousands of unit types if the vast majority are garbage that you should never ever build? I don't want to play if I'm only ever going to use two types of commanders and two types of units per nation.

>>128279146
For most nations it's not so much that you never build them as that if you could recognize when to build them you wouldn't need a guide. But there's a bit mod in progress now to make everything balanced, so that problem should be fixed in like a year or something.

>>128279636
>everything balanced
lol no. I expect it to be a good mod, I don't expect the second coming of pankoman.

Are muuch worth using for anything other than getting underwater?

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I finally finished the MoF mod for CoE4
https://www.mediafire.com/?4lhl34b9lda694i

>>128280092
Not really.

>>128276256
Good advice but keep in mind you still need to proc a morale check for frighten to do anything.

>>128279146
Because you'll still see hundreds of different types of troops and the magic is a lot more interesting than just seeing blocks of different units run at each other

>>128280210
So MA Xibalba has:
No Onaquis
No Ozelotls
Needs special terrain to get its blood mages
Way fewer Zotz options

What's the point?

>>128279146

Some units are crap, but most are worth building. For new players we recommend the most broadly powerful units so you don't have to worry about specific niche uses.

You'll learn niches as you learn the game. Try out MA T'ien Ch'i if you want to try a huge range of human infantry. Or MA Pan if you want more specialized options.

>>128280564
ma xibalba is shit

>>128280564
Bacabs are pretty good mages. But MA Xib is bad, yeah.

>>128280564
You've solved the mystery as to why nobody ever plays them.

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Now taking bets on Bogarus staling two in a row.

>>128281123
Man this is BOGUS

>>128281338
People like you should be hanged

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>>128281123
Ha, nice try Ulm

>>128279636
>everything balanced
As the author of said mod, that's not going to happen.

>>128281613
Well, I'm already hung.

>>128281895
But it's the theoretical goal, right?

Not-Horde-From-Hell guy, reporting back.

So what I ended up with is a multi-step process:
1) A base spell that summons 20 units under effect 37, so it also automatically promotes one to a commander (which I can't get around)
2) spell 1 then triggers a spell that summons 1 unit under effect 37 - I want this guy to be the comm so the auto promotion is good.
3) Spell 2 triggers another spell which triggers an event which kills the commander from the base spell.

Problems: The original commander (that I don't want) is present in the combat, and also the units that were summoned are put into the province garrison so you have to put em back under the remaining leader. First is a slight problem, the second isn't a big one.

Possible solution: Make the entire spell 1 event that spawns 1 comm and 6d6 troops (avg of 21, close enough). Because event modding lets you make those two things different...just you can't specify an exact amount (only d6 increments) because who wants that.

>>128282884
Did you try making the units deserters?

>>128283853
I uh
...that could work. I saw that said earlier and totally forgot to try it, oops.

I don't think there's any particular reason to make these guys comms, so it won't mess anything up.

bamp

>>128287671
suge

>>128287885
roported

http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/star-wars-imperial-enclave

star wars.

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>>128289095

>>128289331
gotta get in on those crisp memes, son

>>128289095
It's kinda bad desu
only a 10% chance of ?FASD outside of their capital, only two mages in their capital (one of which only has 1?FASD), and a total of 4 units (counting commanders) recruitable outside of their capital
they have no summons, no national spells, no melee troops, and no real combat magic

they have blasters which are pretty neat (10 AP fire damage), but nothing else that makes them interesting to play

>>128290023
Yeah, it's a bit limited and very very capital-focused.

All of Sith mans with the not-lightsabers (the gray swords whose name escapes me) are fort rec, aren't they? At 30xp they turn into the cap-only variant, or, well, gain a force choke.

Stormtroopers being cap-only is kind of sad, too.

>>128290430
yeah, my bad, those non-sabered sacreds are rec-anywhere
I just realized they don't have a scout tho

>>128291028
Only 100g sith assassins for you

>>128291230
>Only 100g CAP-ONLY sith assassins for you
FTFY

>>128290023
It's far easier to ramp a nation up in power slowly than it is to dial one back.

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Two stales from Bogarus and we're only on turn 4. Anyone willing to sub/set them AI?

>>128295757
Your the admin

How do I actually start a match through the CLI? I've gone through the flags and I can't find anything to the description of "Begin Match"

>>128295883
Has to be done with a different CD key.

Is it a good idea to put your god in a deathmatch?

>>128296016
Sure.
[email protected]

>>128296194
Yes.
You can get really good items and people are usually too afraid to send anything strong.

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>>128296640
Thanks, mate.

>>128296194
Rephrase that and think clearly about it.
'Is it worth it to send my god to an arena where my opponents will know where he is if he wins, where the rewards are shitty at best and cursed, and where the biggest plus (huge exp boost) is wasted because gods can't into HoF

>>128296806
But my god has no hands to hold the weapons so its fine right?

>>128297309
there is a body and a head slot as well.

>>128297465
Well its a dragon so will they still fit it?

Blitz today, get in chat.

>>128296743
no problem

>>128297847
items don't care about size.
items only care about slots, so yes, your dragon will get the helm, which is actually pretty good on a dragon, just not on a PG dragon.

>>128293420
It's not just a power issue; a nation which lacks mages doesn't fit well into dominions. You can buff the units until the nations starts winning, but that makes the nation way too strong earlygame.

>>128280564
>Needs special terrain to get its blood mages
Forests aren't that special anon

Atlantis, I'm going to take that uw province back and hope you didn't intend to go to war with me.
if you did intend to then I don't know where I'm going from here but I promise it won't be boring...

>>128299608
Who are you? What game do you speak of? We have so many questions.

>>128300912
>>128299608
god damn it captcha kept fucking up sorry.
MoMo Birds here.

>>128214252

you can use flanks/mid grouping to have one portion of the battlefield covered by regular troops with less skeletons (not none) moving up that side to support them.

It works pretty okay, especially if you can time things so your front line is mostly skeletons with bits of crunchy falchioneer in there to deal damage.

It's a cute earlygame thing for c'tis, but later when you have more forts you just spam skelespammers/shadowblasters/lifedrainers and don't bother with troops at all. Well, some horned serpents as mind blast defense.

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>>128295757
>been wanting to play bogarus in a MP game for ages
>see the flatus game starting
>bogarus is in like the first 5 nations to get picked up
>now find out their player is staling and not even playing them

>>128280564

Forests are extremely common on most maps/all random maps.

You can generally get some/all underwater (unless pelagia is in, your muuch are surprisingly effective underwater).

You have a decent thug chassis.

Flying bats are still flying motherfucking bats. Like seriously, light lances on a cheap flying chass with darkvision still wrecks all kinds of face. It's the only xibalban you actually need.

They're middling in power, and will utterly destroy some nations. People tend to play them wrong/poorly, though. They're still a bat nation, just with W/E magic. People play them like a muuch nation, which is a Mistake.

>>128303235
I'm pretty sure the other guy just set them AI, so if you want to sub in you can. They only staled two turns, so I don't think they could be in THAT bad a position.

>>128303235

Then SUB IN, cunt.

>>128303383
>>128303581
Ok can you give me like an hour or two to do it when I get home from work? Or do you like need the turn right now?

>>128304642
you've got a ton of time brah we just got the turn.

>>128303321
What's muuch? I'm not familiar with bats

>>128304642
I'm going to bed pretty soon but post your email in the thread and I'll send ya' the turn in the morning.

>>128304816
muuch are frogs.
you should use the inspector muuch more often.

>>128304873
These jokes are awful, they've gone on muuch too long.

>>128303321
>Flying bats are still flying motherfucking bats. Like seriously, light lances on a cheap flying chass with darkvision still wrecks all kinds of face. It's the only xibalban you actually need.
Bat troops aren't that good.

They're good raiders because they're stealthy and have a nasty first attack, but against any serious resistance they will fail completely. Darkness will help in melee (unless your enemy uses one of the many summons/troops which ignore it) but doesn't prevent evocations or arrows from killing your troops en masse.

You're also limited to 10 lance troops per forest/cave each turn as MA Xibalba. You can't instantly form raiding parties from every forest or fortress like EA or LA Xibalba can.

>>128307836
>>128307836
>>128307836
Yeah, the main benefit of bats is that you get a fucking lot of them, which just doesn't apply in MA.

Can someone try sell me on EA C'tis charioteers. Every now and then I see someone who swears by them. But they never tell me why would use them over heavy infantry + elite slaves for expansion, or falchioneers for real fights.

>>128310583
Chariot expansion is tricky to script, but generally lossless whereas infantry + slaves suffer attrition and require more resources. It lets you make more expansion parties more quickly to snowball off of.

>>128311448
Lossless expansion as C'tis?
Magical. I must learn the sciences.

>>128311893
It basically works the same way as elephants - you use an infantry lure to bring the enemy forward and draw arrows, and then the chariots run them over. The lack of HP makes them a lot less forgiving than elephants, but they also cost half as much while doing almost as much damage so getting critical mass is much cheaper.

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Don't say I didn't warn you, broseph.

ded

>>128319359
>i just want to play anon but there are no games ;_;

>>128307836
>>128307967

10/forest/turn is enough to power raiding, if you're not shit tier. If you're too stupid to plan ahead and stockpile raiding groups, then you're shit tier.

The nation has heavy E magic, which means it can make Marble bats if you are actually using them in an army fight, and xbows aren't ubiquitous in MA like they are in LA.

The lance bats are still the cornerstone of the nation in MA. They're not a spammable disposable resource, but they're still the unit that will win you wars. Muuch are not.

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>That point when you reach lategame and you realise that you've put way too much time into the game to not take it more seriously than perhaps you should

>>128303383
Ok I'll take over for the Bogarus guy if he doesn't turn up by the time the next turn is due. Send me the thing at [email protected]

>>128322206

So start one

>>128327502
Wait, are you >>128304642?
Or are you another guy?

Ermor, which hat do you want exactly? I don't remember what I sent you a long time ago.

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>>128289095
Star Wars mod updated
-- 1.1
-- 12/01/2016
-- Added Emperor pretender
-- Added Knight, middle tier mage between the researcher and the lord. Also made the lord slow to recrit.
-- Added Sith Overlord multihero
-- Added Darth Vader hero

I think he messed up the hero thing or something, because they won't appear and I had to manually add vader as a reccom to get him to appear. Probably should've done #hero1 and not #hero, but I'll let him figure that out. Also, overlord not pictured.

The knight is 1(FASD) 1(FASD) .1(FASD) invuln 15. Resists of 5, except poison @ 15.
Vader has Invuln 20 and popkill of 10, shock/fire resist 10, cold res 10, poison 15

>>128333581
>lightsabre
>lightsabre
>lightsabre
Pour quelle raison?

>>128333581
Oh and the knight is fort-rec, not cap-only. So you have actual out of cap mages now.

>>128318002
>Bragging about winning while playing ragha

>>128335002
Eh, it's cold Ragha. Cold Ragha isn't anywhere near as bad as griffinsgriffinsgriffins heat Ragha.

>>128335228
IF YOU CANT STAND THE HEAT, GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN

>>128332960

The one that makes the air magic go go

you know know

to the show show

to ROW ROW

>>128335228
Cold Ragha gets 10 gold fliers with magic weapons and fantastic mages. They're not as good all-purpose, but they're tailor made for ending lemuria's day.

>>128335228
I prefer cold Ragha's mages, actually. Their sacreds aren't gryphons, but they're okay too. The only thing that I dislike is that it's much trickier to get your blood hunters.

Why do people think LA Ulm is good? They've won 1 out of 26 games

>>128336690
people aren't spamming enough illuminati

>>128333581

Uh, a motherfragging SITH LORD and he has, what, 1a1d1s? Qu'est-ce que?

Why are sith skelespammers anyway? They're fucking air/astral casters. Lightning and mind tricks, and national A/S force push, pull, storm spells. Maybe a national fear spell in S.

Then you have a nation with limited paths, expensive troops, but strong mage-knights with national spell access.

As is, it's not something i'd ever play. Forgettable, jedi/sith aren't scary or interesting, blasters are basically just shortbows with flaming arrows precast. Not really star wars-like, not interesting on it's own.

>>128336690
Out of fort S1 mages (with stealth to make moving them relatively safe), rangers, 0 research vampires.

They fare poorly in part because there's a perception that they need to be destroyed and unlike Ermor they're not actually OP enough to win in spite of this.

>>128336690
But they've ruined way more.
And very often they make it to lategame.

>>128336893
>Uh, a motherfragging SITH LORD and he has, what, 1a1d1s? Qu'est-ce que?
That's a pretender god choice, they usually have low base paths.

>>128336482
>>128336683

I like Cold ragha, I prefer to play it. But it's just not as powerful as griffins ragha. Those griffins are armoured, and ella fucking hard to stop. Three attacks, flying, huge hp, regenerate their riders. With f9 or b9, they are a goddamn menace. With a god to get out seraphs for Fog Warrior midgame, it's bloody fucking hard to stop Heat ragha.

>>128337045

Oh, nevermind then. Rest of comments on the nation still stand. Overall unimpressed. Theoretically you could thug with the sith knights, but it's a pretty one-note thing to do and they still suck even in that seemingly specialized role.

>>128336893
>Uh, a motherfragging SITH LORD and he has, what, 1a1d1s
It's a pretender chassis. You can choose to add magic paths.

I think that the nation has serious problems even ignoring the skelly spam thing, though. They are extremely reliant on fire damage on all of their troops, to the point that it's probably a downgrade when your troops get their sith form in the midgame just because your opponents will be putting up fire resistance on everything.

Their fort recruit mages are too random to rely on for any given strategy - you want A2s or F2s for evo spam, D2s or D1S1 for skelly spam, and you need critical mass of S/x to make stellar cascade spam work, so a large portion of them will be useless in the midgame regardless of what your research focus is.

>>128337059
>With a god to get out seraphs for Fog Warrior midgame
What do you mean by this? Do you mean using your pretender to cast wolfen winter or something?

>>128337467
>all this concern for a modnation just because it's about starwars
I knew this game was for apex nerds but I figured you'd have good taste at least.

>>128337763
I was just giving specific criticism for why the mod nation was weak compared to vanilla nations. I don't actually have strong opinions on star wars one way or the other.

>>128337580

Yep. Can't rely on enemy dominion-herding to keep a fort in cold, so you just hammer one of your forts with wolven winter to keep it frosty year round. Later, use seraph randoms to keep another fort frosty. Scale to your seraph needs/water income. Sure, it sucks to have to take water on your god - and it sucks not being able to imprison, but the reliable fog warriors is worth the pain. X9W3-4 + dormant + decent gryphon scales is very doable.

>>128338010
W4 seems like a good choice, since you need W3 at base for that anyways and the minor bless is dope on high defense gryphons.

>>128337894
Actually, looking over what I wrote for their weaknesses, they're not actually worse than LA Pythium. Faint praise and all that, but they're low-tier compared to vanilla rather than just UP.

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Why the fuck is the underwater Arch Mage aquatic and not just amphibian with a landshape of no-mount

>>128338470

man loves his lobster

You know, Jotunheim, I did ask in the thread if you were going to take that province or not since I didn't see if it was an indie you had left for some reason or a random uprising. But since you staled that turn anyway, it doesn't really matter. There's 5 pd in that province if you want it back.

>>128338470
The archmage is actually the lobster. The cloaked figure on top of it is just a doll so that people will follow him.

>>128338678
>"the godly mantle" is the doll

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This might be in poor taste, but I was hoping I could ask for a broad strategy overview for MA Man. I guess just the sort of mid/late game goals people typically have in mind for them. They have access to a lot of paths at very low levels which I'm not really used to. I've looked up path boosting for ways I can leverage this but it seems like only one rank in a path is often not that relevant.

My current plan is to get Wind Guide online because I am loving their Longbows then switch into Construction since I built my pretender around forging a lot of path boosting items and eventually having very high magic levels at the cost of a sizable investment of gems and mage turns.

It's probably because I'm bad at the game, but I don't see an apparent goal in what Man has available. The only nation I'm actually familiar with is MA Ermor and that's a very simple plan. Have infinity skeletons, cast big death globals, cackle maniacally.

>>128339071

Order 1/Luck 1 is a waste of points. Personally go for Order 3/ Misf 1. I also try to go magic 3 with Man to spam those temple recruit shit labrats. If nothing else they're cheap stealthy priests.

>>128339071
Man doesn't have that many lategame options, really. Their troops aren't the best for buffing, longbows won't be useful later on into the game when people can put storm and arrowfend up, they don't have any summons outside of the nature magic stuff that will help them later on.

Also, that pretender god has a lot of wasted points on things like D1, B1, F1, A2, E2 since that doesn't really help you make boosters for any of the paths you need them for and isn't high enough to be useful as a high level caster on their own. You have access to A2, F1, W1 and E2 from your mages naturally, for example. Unless you're hoping that high astral can carry you, even though Man doesn't have any native astral outside of one hero.

If you're getting air on your pretender, get A4 at least so you can forge winged helmets > bag of winds and get A6.

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Major battles won by Ermor: 6
Major battles lost by Ermor: 0
Forts lost by Ermor: 0
Lictors lost by Ermor (across all battles): 20

Are you having a bad time yet?

Also
>Win siege battle
>Huge army goes inside of fort
>Few demons appear outside
>Your undefended province has been taken
>Your fort is under siege

R u kitten me

>>128339071

MA Man is about the opposite of the kind of nation that can have so many wasted paths on a rainbow. They need a focused strategy, implemented quickly, to survive the midgame. Usually that's some combination of flaming arrows and tstrike.

What MA Man has going for it is relatively cheap human mages and infantry that allows it to defend in depth. It means a competent MA Man is a bitch to fight, and if the Man player can take his time, stealthy bastards, a variety of paths, and modular armies mean they can overwhelm opposition fairly cheaply, especially if they pick their targets.

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>>128340234

>>128340234

You come across as such a huge propagandizing asshole, I have no idea why multiple people are trying to kill you.

>>128339071
Designing your pretender around forging boosters is A-okay, but the way that you want to go about it is look at your national units, decide what boosters you want to forge for them that your nation can't, and then take the appropriate paths on your pretender that let you do that.

For instance, FxDx is great if you want to boost fire, but you have only one native fire unit (randoming an F1) and no death mages for site searchers. W1, meanwhile doesn't get you any boosters that your mages can't make on their own. Nature and Blood let you make another nature booster, which is great, but given that you'll need to empower your pretender further with no native bloodhunters, your pretender doesn't actually get you there on his own without spending a copious number of turns. High astral lets you get rings, which are theoretically nice, but what are you going to be doing with them? Since Nature is your only sorcery path, the sorc ring doesn't bump up your mages in a way that a Moonvine Bracelet doesn't (and this item would be nice to forge with your pretender, but already requires 2 boosters), and RoW requires an insane amount of pearls on a nation with only a hero for astral site searching.

Finally, and this is a problem with most rainbows, site searching with your pretender gives very backloaded power. Let's say you wanted to get into death magic so you take D4 on your pretender (or even D5 for tartarians, given your nation's native nature access). Just to search for D sites without spending gems that you don't have on site searching spells will require two years just to search a modest 12 provinces. That means that you don't get to use your pretender as the top tier mage that he is until turn 36, meaning your nation needs to fight its early mid game wars as though it had no pretender at all.

tl;dr - if you want a diversity or booster forging mage, decide what you want first and then give your pretender appropriate paths to get there.

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497KB, 500x700px

>>128340784
I guess they

Can't stand the bant

>>128340784
Everyone should want to gang up on Ermor anyways, and an Ermor that is doing well merely redoubles the importance of doing so.

His posts are attention whoring, and in the context of playing Ermor while knowing that you're fighting everyone, that's honestly fine. He's the 'Bad Guy' of his game and even if someone else wins (probably going to be Jotunheim), he's still the antagonist of his game and he'll probably have a lot of fun losing. I wouldn't have a problem with him at all if he didn't post undertale stuff; his battle reports and accompanying commentary and so on are fine, even if his tactics aren't particularly creative.

>>128341087

There's a difference between stylish bad guy, and smug undertale memeshit posting and bragging. He's about the absolute opposite from what I would consider good posts in the style of a BBEG.

>>128340036
The plan with the pretender was take S5, boost up to S8 for the Ring of Wizardry and basically take everything up from there. I did actually just realize I'm missing a point of air to make the Staff of Elemental Mastery, so I should probably take another look at my route. But really the main reason I chose this pretender is so I could, eventually, play around with a lot of different options at once in a single player game. It needs some work, though.

>>128340379
Okay, that's the kinda framework I was looking for. Sounds like it's maybe not the nation for me but I'll keep trying them out.

>>128340830
This is very specific and salient advice, thank you. I've especially been feeling the issues with site searching. One part of my strategy was to build my pretender in a way that allowed me to break away from the limitations of my nation, but the gem costs alone are a pretty huge barrier to that.

>>128340830
To be more specific with this, my advice if you want to focus on boosting is to get A4E4N2S2. This lets you make earth boots, air hats and subsequently bags (expensive, but nice if you can get there), elemental staffs, moonvine bracelets, and, if you get lizard shamans or another indy astral province, skullcaps and crystal gear. You also get some of the most efficient booster artifacts, but that isn't a reliable benefit. These are all things that help out your big mages be bigger, and the A4E4 bless is nice on your Mothers who will probably be your battle mages (alongside Logrian Wisemen whose randoms you like). These are also all relatively cheap paths since they're low level, so you'll be able to get fantastic scales or a more durable chassis. If you want to branch out into other paths, you can do that too - just make sure that you know why you're taking them.

>>128341560
>But really the main reason I chose this pretender is so I could, eventually, play around with a lot of different options at once in a single player game
In that case, you can ignore a lot of my advice. Having access to everything to mess around with in SP is fine. You can waste a lot of turns site searching, and since turns go by quickly and the AI isn't very strong you'll eventually get access to everything you want. I'd still go at least A4E3 to get elemental staffs without bloodstones, though.

PAN WAS RIGHT

>>128341560

See, the thing is, you're designing this pretender like you have infinite gems and infinite time. You do in SP, so that's what makes me think you are coming from playing SP. In MP, you do not have time. You do not have gems, unless you haven't managed to spend them, which is Bad. If you have a Ring of Wizardry, so what? What is it getting you? Are you putting it on a mage to cast a spell in battle and potentially losing it? Are you using it to forge.. air boosters?

Getting, say, a fully geared Pedoseion, Father Illearth, can turn a war around. Starting up a Tart factory in lategame can give you the units you need to push back against a magically-superior foe. Hitting Evo 4 can let you take a bunch of Air mages out of their labs and turn a sacred rush into so much lightning-charred mincemeat. The END EFFECT is important. Not the 'oh I can cast wish now with my 0 pearls and terrible losing position'. 'Getting magic' is meaningless. Getting magic that lets you cast useful spells is meaningful. That's why A4 is meaningful for Man, because it means you can forge air hats, with the gems you have from sitesearching with your abundant air mages. And the air hats let you forge air bags, and air hat + good random'd crone OR air hat + air bag + bad random'd crone = Fog Warriors and Fog Warriors = losing battle becomes a winning one. Etc. F4 or F/D gives you fire boosters which leads to turn1 Flaming Arrows, etc etc. The end effect. Not 'can cast wish', or 'can boost every path'. Those aren't ends. At best, they're sometimes means. But not even always.

>>128341442
Yeah, like I mentioned the undermeme stuff is pretty dumb and makes me embarrassed for him. I don't think that being unduly smug and bragging is necessarily bad, though. That's just the 'Mwahaha, die mortals!' thing that an undiplomatic Ermor player should be doing for funzies.

>>128342251

I think you're giving far more benefit of the doubt than I am. The smug and bragging isn't playing the role of evil ermor, he's genuinely thinking he's the bestest at the game. For taking a strat that is strongest while taking a defensive (losing) position, and losing with it. He's going to claim he is the best for copying a tribless strat and using it in a non-winning manner to kill people's units in it's strongest location (inside his own dominion). It's just the bragging you get from deeply insecure shitcunts, it's not anything to do with 'being the evil overlord' or whatever. It's smug, self-congratulatory cringey bullshit. I literally wince when I see it.

>>128342171
Nah, you're totally right. Right now I'm just fucking around in SP because I can, but I can tell that I don't actually have a solid strategy for when I do want to play against actual competition. I just sorta hit a wall in transitioning to the latter, and this thread has been a big help!

>>128342628
Good now help yourself to my dick.

>>128342171
>F4 or F/D gives you fire boosters which leads to turn1 Flaming Arrows
Getting flaming arrows on Man is nice, but it's incredibly unreliable. You need either death gems which you can only find with your pretender or 20 fire gems, which requires a lucky find to deploy early enough for flaming arrows to come out before its counters (and it's still Turn 2 rather than Turn 1 unless you're using your pretender himself, but that's just being nitpicky). It's not a HUGE amount of design points and can potentially open up fire kings and whatnot if you do happen to be rich in fire gems as well, but I'd consider it a luxury path on the pretender at best and just use the fire gems that you do find for the various useful items that an E1F1 can make.