Never forget edition
Previous Campaign: >>127181694
XCOM GENERAL (full information, all links):
Don't forget to check firaxisgames latest vod at Twitch.
Beagle's First Two Missions Gameplay:
60 Minute Gameplay Video:
Long War download link:
/xcg/'s Long War FAQ (new players read this shit):
Dreadnought MEC Trooper voicepack:
Extra perks to add for Training Roulette:
hugely detailed spreadsheet:
MGS-themed codename list:
Alternate in-game text .inis (AYY LMAO):
>b15f : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19805654/ayylmao.7z
/xcg/ Operation Name Generator 0.1 (doesn't take effect until you get a new mission):
So is there any fucking use for these things?
I hope using a pistol out the gate is possible.
Means nothing to me when they're replaced by beam weapons.
>And they are the only reason we have guns in long war that look different for each tech tier.
I guess. Honestly I'm still feeling underwhelmed by the options in vanilla. I grow increasingly tempted to just drop it and do LW now.
Yeah, but they're still the same weapon.
Does the council ask for them at all though? Cause otherwise I'm just going to vendor the lot.
I went to launch a mission and the fucking game black screened so I had to close it and now the game black screens on launch and won't start. EU works fine though just EW is fucked. Is this a common problem because it's done this shit to me before and I had to reinstall the game
I have a similar problem with the alien base mission. After the cutscene, an empty, uncloseable dialog box opens and I can do nothing. Supposedly it has to do with having a MEC on the mission?
I can't help but feel my game is glitched though, I don't think I've had a single council request.
I used to have an issue where the game wouldn't want to launch again after closing and I had to verify the game cache in steam to launch, but other than that my only crash has been the first time a sectopod appeared.
Air Game will live on.
One day in the Future.
Stop bullying air game op ;_;
The only way to make the air game fun.
Airgame would be cool if it wasn't so fucking HORRIFYING.
I don't really remember Vanilla, it was probably more OK there, but in LW it's a fucking pain in the asshole.
I'd prefer some bullet-hell shit like Touhou or Space Invaders minigame with an opttion to autoresolve if you want, but this purely (and wide as SHIT) RNG bullshit is awful.
It could be cool, nothing says badass like dogfighting fucking UFOs.
At least you can tinker around with it with the air game mod to make it irrelevant or at least entertaining to watch.
Kek. I had the same thing in my last playthrough. Wouldn't have expected the Illuminati to be hiding out in Perth, but I suppose that was exactly the point... it's the last place you'd think to look...
>tacked on and pointless
ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, no not really. It doesn't feel tacked on and it clearly has a point. Its just that og x-com airgame was about keeping track of ufos and making sure nothing shady was going on. It wan't a huge element of the game, but it it fit well into the entirety of the geo-game.
>when you lose xcom 2 councilguy gets mind controlled
so I'm good for the temple assault right?
MLP "cropped" porn picture where you still can see the horsedong...yeah brony, keep it together !
I bet the council guy is yet some important guy in the Advent Administration, but stay loyal to the xcom project and help the resistance.
What annoys me is that the possibility was lost. And lost it was because they didn't have the time/ideas to make it better. Sure, they put their efforts to what they knew best but a loss is a loss and this is something that has been from the UFO Defense era.
Thanks. I still have hopes in either DLC or Mods to Fix this.
Agreed, people is really annoyed at the Air Game because their experience in LW so no wonder they celebrate that it is no more. See >>127306017
>>I don't really remember Vanilla, it was probably more OK there, but in LW it's a fucking pain in the asshole.
I do. And I even still play it on the phone. It was/is a nice part of the EU/EW experience as things are far, far more predictable and balanced so I don't blame LW devs to try to change it so much as to make it "fun" in their terms. With the very results that you yourself just explained.
The combat part is doable.
But not the bullshit order of random missions you get.
Sometimes you get 4 engineer, 4 scientist, $200 council missions (not story based), sometimes you get the Alaska one in your early months.
They need to add some more choice in that because that shit can make or break you.
not even once
have some sundowner from when I played Long Dong in Abril or was it March
Can't say I have too much experience but my first reaction is that valks are mechs you don't want aliens shooting at in the first place. Also, it can burn through your ammo super fast.
Your asking at a pretty bad time, might want to post the same question when the general is more active
about 7-8 hours from now
It's fun, didn't stick with it for too long though
If someone wanted something other than vanilla to keep them occupied before xcom 2 I'd recommend it over long war since I doubt you'll finish long war in a month
I drink my way through the last part. Vanilla is easy enough just to power through to it.
Longwar is just stupid after the first year since the tedious fucking terror missions just destroy a mostly enjoyable experience. I'd prefer more bomb missions or even base defense than monthly terror missions. That or completely rebalance the shit out of them. Heck if you had the know how you could remove terror missions completely and just add a random amount of panic to the country (which is basically what they do). Terror missions are stupid and usless Long War but everything else is fine.
So /xcg/, if you could have your choice, what modern tank and what WWII tank would you take into combat with the ayys?
Modern: Merkava. Carries troops and has a mortar bomb launcher in addition to the regular tank weapons.
WWII: Something small, light, and fast with big anti-ayy potential. Perhaps the M3 Satan flametank?
Literally no tank ever because apparently, a single burst from an ACR can cause an M1 Abrams to catch fire.
This has happened to me on the military base terror map. ballistics can set off those tanks, and they look at least modern.
Alright alright anon, I took some time to find this just for you. you can read it yourself for other build questions. For Valks it recommends platform stability.
Also sidenote, marauder tanks are fucking brutal.
Mine just took 4 mechtoids, whole football team, 3 floaters, 3 thinmints and a sectoid alone for 3 rounds with only repair servomotors for healing.
And he's wasn't equipped even with tankies suit not to mentions he's Major atm(can't for the love of god remember LW class names).
I read yet a bit about the Merkava, i like the the idea of this tank. Full cover for the crew, can transport other soldiers too and the mortar is a nice idea, wonder why no other country had that idea.
But its only designed for isreal territory and its absolute not a tank for export.
But i think a light troop carrier is the best, such las an russian BMP-2, with a 30mm autcannon.
>a tank that isn't a very good at doing Tank Things, but also isn't a very good APC, mounted with weapons no tank crew has ever really needed
hmm i wonder why no other countries replicate it and instead build, y'know, actual tanks.
When vision overlaps detection range
You can get it loads if you use the battle scanner that a sniper has, although saving the scanner for seekers is usually a better option early game
Other countries have different needs. The tank is about urban warfare, close range and desert areas, with awesome defense equiptment.
But ok, something like the new russian tank is the future, with stealth, no crew in the turret and some other improved stuff.
Their weapons don't self-destruct like alien weapons do. You can take them with out stunning EXALTs and if you stun them they just commit suicide to avoid being captured anyway.
The way I play it the last 5 times:
Needle grenades on everyone
Tac armor for extra movement if you need to fall back and if you get hit you're pretty much doing this mission wrong.
Medkits + Lasers on 2 infantry and gunner (medkits for the thins)
Shotguns on Engineer and Assault (engineer decked out with flashbangs and needle grenades), flashbangs are your panic button when you activate too much too close.
Steady aim the lasers and overwatch the shotguns.
Shoot + needle nade combo with infantry is OP. Use opportunist infantry if available. Focus leader/lightning reflex lids with shots and use CCS Assaults to finish off in worst case scenarios. Always kill Lightning reflex lids first. Assaults can stay at front and flashbang in worst case scenario if they have CCS.
Use the box exploit on high ground and overwatch like crazy.
Easiest mission since you get no corpses exploit the explosives.
Abduction mission in France or India. Am I right in saying that if I choose France, Australia will go into the red?
Hello friends, I just started playing XCom for the first time since I like strategy games a lot, and the second one is coming out.
I was wondering if anyone had some basic tips for starting out, such as a specific facility, or research to go for in the early game.
I can deal with India, but according to the wiki:
>panic is increased by 2-3 in targeted countries, and by 1-2 in the rest of the continent
So AUS could possibly go into the red, and I wouldn't be able to do anything about considering I already have a satellite there, barring a lucky council mission.
Damn, I'm almost tempted to restart because I think I may have fucked up my funds. I feel like I barely have any. I instantly made 2 vests, and 2 medkits (probably not too bad) but I also built a Laboratory right off the bat. I just managed to get down a satellite uplink but I don't even have enough for a satellite this month.
I'm sure it'll be fine because I'm on Normal but it's a little scary because Japan is getting pretty asshurt and I don't have the satellites to help them.
Yup, I'm actually perfectly fine with games that completely fuck you over, so I'm just going to take whatever the game throws at me, fully expecting to get slaughtered. It'll just make my next playthrough that much more fun when I know how everything works.
I'll probably do this playthrough as long as possible, then start an Ironman playthrough, and when I'm done with that I'll move the Long War.
You can count each of the green "+"-es as one more satellite allowed.
How much your total capacity is will depend on whether you are doing vanilla or LW and I don't remember the vanilla values, but adjacency will give you four more.
im feeling up for streaming xcom
about to start a new campaign since my other one is almost done in terms of gear
i think i'll go brutal ironman, with commander's choice, durability and hidden potential
would you guys want to watch that?
>max level dude with the rarest weapon does a lot of damage against clumped enemies
You're not going to have blaster launchers for a long, LONG time in long dong. Or max level rocketeers, either. Or rocketeers that can move anywhere under the weight of armor preventing them from dying in one shot.
And even then, every mission has ten million aliens and you only have so many rocket shots.
i'm bored, does anyone have some photoshop ideas?
You don't like it, mod it in.
I spent the better part of 4 hours on a car trip trying to come up with ideas to make it fun and failed. The original game was too much "push buton receive bacon" for me. It's just at odds with the strategic and tactical layers.
I guess you could do a turn based tile system in the air, but then you're in Xenonauts territory and that shit got old fast.
2nd tier launcher damage (upper tick, rest is from mines) from a Shredder rocket, blaster is 3rd tier and I'm far away from even getting the research for them.
Promotions negro with decent Classic X-com suit and hair maybe?
Got this from late night /v/-com threads but the quality is... Bad,
>Camping the Encoder
>Last wave of Exalt
>I swear to fuck there is probabbly only one or two left
>Its been 10 turns since I last made contact and I've been on overwatch party since
>Still none move forward
Fuck me. I get that a lone Exalt soldier probably wouldnt have the balls to try and take an encoder with 6 guns trained on it IRL, but this si fucking tedious and i KNOW that if I move forward I'm getting a soldier wounded and I have to do an abduction immediately after this.
Well. I moved forward and (im on a rooftop) there were FIVE of them n the lowground just swapping the same 5 tiles over and over again (threw a battle scanner).
Fire a rocket that should hit all 3 of them and it careens off to the side and hurts one for 5 damage. Overwatch party has resumed. This game will be my death
What cruel god created Friends in Low Places?
Better yet, which Firaxis idiot thought Thin Mints were good early-game enemies?
Floaters are fine enemies: flying, flanking, dumb as a box of rocks.
Suits are fucking awful.
>it has 20 mobility
>it has incredibly high aim
>if it can't flank, it uses a cover-ignore lingering debuff
>otherwise, it just shoots you out of high cover
>it starts ON OVERWATCH
>and I got you 3 a turn for the rest of the mission
There is no money I wouldn't pay for an XCOM mod that was pure-tactical and removed all the RNG.
It is. I've dealt with them now after engaging them. They started coming up one at a time and the overwatch party did its thing. Incredibly tedious and I still managed to lose the operative because I was being careless. At least it was just a squaddie.
Honest question, is it your 1st day playing X-com?
Aliens/Exalt 90% of the time if they're alone will hide after best cover and spam overwatch or do spazmal moves like 2 tiles from cover and back to it and so on.
Normal doesn't remove the RNG, it just reduces it in favour of the player.
I want a fixed system for damage.
>Just overwatch and you kill them when they spawn
Except they spawn into cover, they don't all spawn in range, and OW doesn't always hit.
Not to mention that there are pods already on the map, so you don't always have the liberty of setting up Overwatch.
It makes sense when Xcom is assaulting the enemy for the enemy to retreat.
When the enemy is there to assault Xcom, it is retarded that they then act like its a normal mission.
RNG cheese is the only way for strategy games, especially turn based ones, to stay interesting.
The RNG in Civ 5 is pretty manageable, and it means by turn 100/200 you usually already know you're going to win and its fucking hell.
EU is a game about figuring out the string of actions you can take in one turn that neutralizes all active aliens. Regardless of how good you make the AI, the goal is to never give it initiative in the first place.
If you eliminate RNG, two things can happen. One is, people figure out the two-three tactics that guarantee you can kill a pod in a turn (like grenade cover with first guy, shoot with other three). Bam, game solved, only kids who love mindless repetition will play it more than 5 hours. OR there isnt a way to kill all ayys in a turn, in which case the same people crying about RNG will now cry about being guaranteed to lose dudes, because they dont hate RNG, they hate being punched. Improving the activation AI so it hides the ayys well enough would for example result in this second case.
Like, this has nothing to do with AI and everything to do with the fact that RNG is an easy way to make the "how do I kill 20 ayys with 8 guys in one turn" puzzle complex. It doesn't matter what the AI is when it never gets a turn anyway.
Can the "infiltration" mission happen this early?
There was no terror mission or anything of the like in Australia
whelp, i never said im good at it
Recoilless rifle is only 3 damage less than this.
You get MSGT rocketeers about when you hit gauss. (if you brought them to every mission and got them some kills)
Also, pic related is ITZ sniper with disabling shot and lock n load.
Mayhem Precision shot snipers are overkill to be honest.
Of course it is
I think that poster was intending to clarify that all the dlc is worth it too
DESU I can't think of another game you'll get more out of in the sale. I've got 50 hours in it and I've never even finished the game
So I just mind controlled one of these idiots.
This is your average late-game thin mint.
Adaptive Bone Marrow
>something like the new russian tank is the future, with stealth, no crew in the turret and some other improved stuff.
It's a shame that Russia doesn't have funds to field them in large quantities. But maybe it's better from geopolitical view.
You wouldn't have a guaranteed kill every time, just with the right tactical decisions.
You could be sure of the outcome of every decision, like in chess.
>the same people crying about RNG will now cry about being guaranteed to lose dudes, because they dont hate RNG, they hate being punched.
No, I hate RNG.
I'd accept losses from bad tactical decisions or good enemy play, but as it is currently the enemy doesn't have to play well, it just has to roll well.
What value is there in tactical play when it can be completely nullified by hidden dice?
Yet the idea that you will be affected by randomness beyond your capabilities to avoid is objective.
A shot cannot be taken below 1%. I cannot entrench a single unit in such a way that they never get hit, and not every situation lets me break LoS to avoid being seen.
The game can drop me in a situation where, no matter how well I play, RNG can affect me negatively.
imagine the ayys in xcom 2
>trying to uplift humans
>they keep blowing themselfs up in retaliation
I basically rushed lasers and then I researched advanced body armor and I'm thinking of carapace next. Currently with like 27 scientists in May so should I go for captures next or carapace. Also when is it feasible to get psionics online without crippling any part of the game?
How strong is your loyalty, /xcg/?
probably one of the biggest reasons they're mixing genetics with humans is just so their troops can survive on earth. Invaders face not only the usual hosts of attrition but a further complicated cocktail of gravity, atmospheric pressure, and cats. All of this easily fixed by merging with the already developed DNA of the local inhabitants.
Look at the sectoid compared to the pectoid. The sectoid is a mass-produced common denominator for invading worlds. It lacks ears and a mouth, as its only way of communicating is via psionic link: which is unmitigated even under the harshest of possible environments.They're basically big eyeballs that have the capacity to shoot things. The little bubs are nearly dead by the time you fight them, half starved and falling apart from the local world's climates.
The pectoid, on the other hand, is a big stronk man who has muscles to do things effectively in a gravity environment. He can hear things as he speaks them in the atmospheric environment. His eyes are a little less buggy, as his face has been shaped much like a humans as to be resistant and protective in the environment. Furthermore, he is large and stronk.
If any of this is true in terms of a design element then it would be interesting to consider the Andromedon. These highly esteemed aliens are not slaves to the ethereals, ready to have their entire physiology altered to exist comfortably on one world, but rather are valued specialists who can still negotiate some element of power.
What do you think? How does your answer make you feel?
More like them greyskins want some more manjuice to fill the void we left where their asses used to be while kicking them off our planet.
AYY SYMPATHISERS SHOULD BE EUTHANISED RRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>First time seeing Alien Activity: Heavy so bring A team
>Move scout to full cover for concealment
>Activate a pod with 2 mutons and a berserker
>Kill a muton and the berserker
>Next turn, muton moves over one square, breaks the scout's concealment, and critically wounds her
>Scout out for 21 days
What is even the point of this perk then?
overwatch to lock ayys in place
for your actual question, concealment doesn't activate the ayys, so it turns your scout into a moving battlescanner, guaranteeing you get a free opening shot on each pod
So, I've tried out the battle rifle (Heavy Plasma Rifle).
It's alright, but you need some stuff to make it really work well.
A) You need Hyper-Reactive Pupils, that cancels the aim penalty, if you miss your first shot.
B) You absolutely need Walker Servos (I use them without the HPR anyways, so that wasn't much of a change)
C) Have an infantry built for full crit. Battle rifles put their 10% aim reduction on overwatch shots, so Sentinel/Opportunist infantry synergises very badly with it.
Rapid Fire is a double edged sword. The +1 damage is actually +2, but you get -25 aim instead of -15.
Actually we don't know much about sectoids despite them being in almost every game. I always thought their civilization had gotten to a point where its members were engineered clones and they fed by soaking in the human baths.
I liked the idea of the Terror From the Deep threat being remnants of the sectoid race prior to ethereal subjugation. The Uber Ethereal as well also said something about them showing psychic ability but too weak for their tastes
The SHIV game is going fast and smooth. I might beat I/I in 2 days real time.
Ayys really can't do shit when you stack 7 of these together and throw some dank smoke on top.
>run a rookie up to a sectoid for a CLOSE RANGE shot
>it's not 100% to hit
guess I'm not taking that shot then. How am I supposed to pass that first mission if I can never get a 100% shot and there's too many ayys for the number of grenades I have?
>>it's not 100% to hit
Then don't take it. NEVER take a shot that's lower than 100%. even 99% is not 100%. It WILL miss, your guys WILL die, and you WILL get btfo by the game. Get fucking good, kid.
>Vanilla with NCE and HP
>Hire a bunch of soldiers cos I need Heavies
>3 supports, 2 assaults and a heavy
>Heavy has 28 will and 52 aim
My opinion of marbozir has varied over time. I've always been impressed by his Civ 5 skills, but he doesn't treat xcom the same way. His first LW run was pretty good and he seemed skilled but subsequent playthroughs have felt rushed and without a careful analysis of moves. On his most recent campaign it seems like he's been improving, so there's that.
That strong accent. First time i heared i i thought he would be an arab and look like pic releated.
But he is from poland and look like a normie with a little touch of a nerd
Holy shit I just saw what he looks like. I have no idea what I expected but it wasn't that.
With Xcom I think he worries that going slow like he did in previous playthroughs isn't entertaining enough and that he has to pick the speed up a bit. Personally I don't get that since if someone is nerdy enough to be sitting watching his videos, they're probably nerdy enough to want to see it done properly.
Hopefully there's an option to disable it.
I used to play LW with Aiming Angles, but it's a crutch for not having flanks.
Makes you think less about movement.
Bayonet is not a full sword.
The ranger doesn't have a knife on the end of their gun.
>I used to play LW with Aiming Angles, but it's a crutch for not having flanks.
I find Aiming Angles makes the game far harder. Most of the time it might raise your chance to hit from 75->90%, but aliens also get it and it will raise their chance to hit from 20%->35%.
If an outsider shoots at something and it doesn't die, it's probably a bug.
Your chryssalid rape train has arrived, sir
Unfortunately I had other things to worry about (not pictured: two mechtoids and sectoid commander)
Fortunately the mutons are idiots and would rather spend their turn beating their chests and suppressing my guys
In the end one lid with 1 hp survived - sorry you had to eat that 11 damage hit, engie
How much better is a Goliath at tanking than a Marauder. I already have a Marauder with a tank build, and it's pretty damn impressive how it can just take shot after shot and not give a fuck. I read that Goliaths are the MEC that are really meant for tanking, which I wish I had known before I built my Marauder for tanking, but just how much better are they?
I want to get another MEC up and running, but I can't decide between a Goliath, or an Archer. I already have a Valkyrie for damage dealing, so would it be a good idea to get another tank, or is the Marauder good enough to not worry about it? I really do wanna blow shit up with an Archer.
it's the same stupid thing that causes floater pods to freely move in and out of the sides of large ufos
extremely annoying how every pod will have 2-3 dudes leave the ship and you can't chase them
ah I see, xcom generals have the same kind of people as dark souls ones
>lmao you fucking shitter you had trouble with ornstein and smough? why not try beating the game on level 1 with no weapons?
Hahaha fuck bomb disposal missions
Convoluting Light was a fucking cakewalk compared to this horseshit
Ayy, missions like these are always fun
I really hate landed mediums, and this one had 40 fucking aliens which all decided to swarm me at once (17 mutons!)
Eh, just normal bronzeman, I'm a shitter
I thought it was a commanding pod as well, but it turned out they were having a party in the back when I was chasing the last muton
They just really love all zeroing in on me on landed mediums
You don't need utility after your enemies are dead. That said the main issue with rocketeers is just that engineers become omni-badasses and you have to bring them anyway for captures.
Nah, gunners are the lame duck of LW classes.
Why even live
>That said the main issue with rocketeers is just that engineers become omni-badasses and you have to bring them anyway for captures.
That's what I'm saying, a good engi can do everything a rocketeer can do in most circumstances without having to worry about spread, mobility penalties, etc. That being said, they're invaluable when you encounter cyberdiscs.
Vanilla is easy as shit. You don't know what you're talking about.
>run of bad luck
XCOM is not an RNG game. Play better, stop taking stupid 45% shots with rookies, break los, and generally just git fucking gud.
Rocketeers are invaluable for anything in the air unless your strategy is to take a bunch of 40-60% shots and savescum if they fail.
Then you land on a map where its impossible to break LoS, a soldier takes a hit while hunkered and the whole team panics and kills each other.
I have beaten LW I/I, the first few missions of vanilla impossible have a greater chance of failure than any mission in LW.
>the first few missions of vanilla impossible have a greater chance of failure than any mission in LW.
Thinmints are dicks and they love to appear early as fuck. Vanilla has you lacking options to deal with them, so if you can't deal with them the very first turn you're incredibly likely to lose a soldier.
should I watch northernlion's failed long war playthrough before I play to get an idea of what doesn't work? I'd watch or read some super guide but northernlion is way more entertaining and the crazy amount of customization and choice is intimidating to me
>infantry get the same suppression perks *and* lock and load
>infantry get sentinel earlier
>infantry are more mobile
>infantry have better accuracy
>infantry make better officers
>infantry start with a double-tap equivalent
I just want some massive levels where I get rushed by AYY LMAO'S while I set up, up to 16 units in a defensive line while civilians behind me evacuate onto XCOM ships, with up to 12 more local militia, civilian, and police forces I can control help me out
Easy, the very first map I got when I played my first nuXcom game (on impossible because anything less is for sissies). The rooftop construction zone where you land and there's nothing but half cover.
The only thing you will learn is that being a complete near-DSP tier retard won't work.
Infantry do pretty much everything better. Gunners only edge is that their gun is slightly better, basically trading a free Ranger perk for having worse stuff everywhere else.
>Vanilla has you lacking options to deal with them
The opportunities are endless.
Try thin mints that have Lightning Reflexes and Adaptive Bone marrow, then see if you still complain about vanilla being too hard.
>the rooftop map
that map is incredibly easy to break LOS on. There's that giant shipping container right at the start, and big walls and other containers everywhere!
well I beat the game on normal ironman at least so I think I'm already capable. there just seems like a lot of things you can fuck up by choosing the wrong things in long war (unless it's somehow 100% balanced, which is unlikely)
you dont need lock and load when your gun by default comes with a lot of ammo, this saves you one perk
infantry either get suppression like a gunner or the perk that lets them do as much damage as a gunner, never both
infantry dont get heat
You only have one early unless you tug a bunch of Heavy around
Do tell me how you have Suppression in the first few weeks of March.
BUT YOU SHOULDN'T TAKE 45% SHOTS YOU CASUAL!
Not always possible and you fucking know it.
>Try thin mints that have Lightning Reflexes and Adaptive Bone marrow
Oh, you mean shit you won't see in the first month of even LW, which is what everyone is calling hard about Vanilla?
>Oh, you mean shit you won't see in the first month of even LW, which is what everyone is calling hard about Vanilla?
vanilla is hard for two months, LW is hard for 20, so I don't see how "it doesnt appear in the first two months of LW" applies
Only deals 3 damage, if you want to shoot them then you are taking 65% shots.
Have a chance to miss, only fires once.
For one alien
With that horrible accuracy? Unless you get in melee range its a bad shot.
>that map is incredibly easy to break LOS on. There's that giant shipping container right at the start, and big walls and other containers everywhere!
Which you can't get to without triggering enemies that will rape you before you get there and won't be able to hide all 4 of your group.
>Try thin mints that have Lightning Reflexes and Adaptive Bone marrow, then see if you still complain about vanilla being too hard.
Which come about 6 months after I have rocketeers with 1 tile scatter that ignore any of this bullshit.
>you dont need lock and load when your gun by default comes with a lot of ammo, this saves you one perk
It's still a good perk to have and there are a lot of other perk slots that Infantry gets way better.
>infantry either get suppression like a gunner or the perk that lets them do as much damage as a gunner, never both
Suppression is a horrible fit for gunners honestly. If I have the strongest gun on a soldier I want to be shooting enemies, not pretend-shooting enemies. Save suppressing for the medics.
>infantry dont get heat
This is the only notable loss but there are plenty of other ways to compensate.
Lock and Load lets you fire/suppress/overwatch and reload on the same turn, on top of giving you more ammo.
Infantry can shoot more often than a gunner, are considerably more capable of flanking, and can better utilize grenades, all on top of being more accurate. 1-2 less damage doesn't mean much in that scenario.
Heat's situational, and heat rockets are better anyways.
>vanilla is hard for two months, LW is hard for 20, so I don't see how "it doesnt appear in the first two months of LW" applies
You're entirely ignoring the point that was the comparison of the first month or two of BOTH.
Yes, LW is overall harder, but it is much easier to deal with a bad situation compared to vanilla with being able to drag along flashbangs and the fact that tactical rigging or whatever is innate in LW.
>I just lost this argument but I can't admit it
Oh yes, there are plenty of things to fuck up strategically.
Basically Vanilla is more dependent on getting lucky while LW is more dependent on skill. If you are skillful then Vanilla is harder. LW still requires more in-depth knowledge and planning to play though.
Crikey, just got a magnificent catch down here in France.
Ohh, and Normal is Vanilla's code for baby-tier (easy = game reviewer tier). The game literally cheats the numbers in your favor, if you haven't played at least Classic don't start LW.
Guys, I just said rocketeers are useless because with my playstyle they don't really pull that many kills - it's a get out of jail free card or to finish wounded ayys (similar to my gunners who mostly just suppress stuff)
You don't have to get all up in arms about it
>Suppression is a horrible fit for gunners honestly. If I have the strongest gun on a soldier I want to be shooting enemies, not pretend-shooting enemies. Save suppressing for the medics.
Gunners are a bag of tricks class, you put flush to finish enemies, you put suppression to deal with outsiders, you put HEAT to kill robots, if they could also compare with infantry in the line then infantry would be quite sad. And they are quite decent in the line, they just arent infantry.
Grenades on infantry? Stack up scopes and mags doe
Damage is always important, 5 vs 6 or 10 vs 11 doesn't look like a big change but if you express it in "50% to oneshot enemy vs 75% chance to oneshot enemy" it's important.
desu if Rocketeers aren't getting many kills then you are using them right. Rocketeer kills = no bodies, ideally they should soften enemies up and kill nothing, with a rocket in reserve in case a bunch of floaters do those faggy things floaters like to do.
>Only deals 3 damage, if you want to shoot them then you are taking 65% shots.
Stop trying to shoot through cover like this is Call of Duty: Heroes.
>Have a chance to miss, only fires once.
You think that's bad? Try a 33 tile gaussian scatter instead of a 10% chance to hit just one tile away from where you intended.
Good thing it doesn't crash the game to have two units suppress different targets. You can also have your suppressing guys break los on the guys they aren't suppressing so they don't get shot. Magical, right?
>Which you can't get to without triggering enemies that will rape you
I think you need to break los on that pirated copy of yours, because aliens can't shoot on the turn they're activated outside of Long War. And golly gee, having trouble on the rooftop construction map... Reminds me of a certain person from /v/ who needs to leave this thread.
>Stop trying to shoot through cover like this is Call of Duty: Heroes.
You sometimes lack a choice in the matter.
>a 10% chance to hit just one tile away from where you intended.
>He's never had a rocket critically fail and blow up the Heavy using it
>Good thing it doesn't crash the game to have two units suppress different targets. You can also have your suppressing guys break los on the guys they aren't suppressing so they don't get shot. Magical, right?
You're still forgetting the fact that you're unlikely to have suppression in the first fucking month.
>Stop trying to shoot through cover like this is Call of Duty: Heroes.
65% is base recruit accuracy. If an enemy is left with 1 HP and no cover after a grenade then you'll have a 65% chance to hit them.
>You think that's bad? Try a 33 tile gaussian scatter instead of a 10% chance to hit just one tile away from where you intended.
What? Vanilla has a 90% chance to hit 10% chance to not hit, the rocket just goes off to nowhere. In LW a steady-aimed rocketeer has virtually 100% chance to hit for at least 2/3rds of their damage.
>Good thing it doesn't crash the game to have two units suppress different targets. You can also have your suppressing guys break los on the guys they aren't suppressing so they don't get shot. Magical, right?
>having 2 of the worst class
>implying breaking LoS works if you don't break LoS with everyone.
>I think you need to break los on that pirated copy of yours, because aliens can't shoot on the turn they're activated outside of Long War. And golly gee, having trouble on the rooftop construction map... Reminds me of a certain person from /v/ who needs to leave this thread.
Literally not enough space to hide 4 soldiers.
>it's a get out of jail free card or to finish wounded ayys
And that's how I use them and I still think they are really good at that one role.
I also use them for psionics/officers and if burst damage.
Give them a carbine and they're half decent riflemen (which I only recommend doing on long ops).
>ideally they should soften enemies up and kill nothing
I agree with you but I tend to use them for finishing targets off due to how I use rocketeers for last resorts. I should probably stop myself from doing it but it's a habit.
>Damage is always important, 5 vs 6 or 10 vs 11 doesn't look like a big change but if you express it in "50% to oneshot enemy vs 75% chance to oneshot enemy" it's important.
I'm pretty sure infantry beat gunners in damage per round, since they have higher accuracy and up to three shots. And if they do oneshot an enemy, they can move on to shoot another at, with better THC than a gunner would have in a similar situation. If you're playing with Red Fog, infantry can do a lot more to cripple the ayys than a gunner can.
Look dude, nobody is arguing that LW is easy. It's not. It's just that vanilla is much harder early on. Every long war player knows that the early months aren't so bad, at least initially. That first abduction where you have six rookies with maybe flashbangs and definitely a few AP grenades is a lot easier than I/I vanilla.
>I agree with you but I tend to use them for finishing targets off due to how I use rocketeers for last resorts. I should probably stop myself from doing it but it's a habit.
Try opening every fight with a rocket instead. Especially brutal if its with Red Fog.
not that guy but I typically use rocketeers for shredder rockets. Most of my rocketeer kills are heat shredders sent directly into a group of stupid fucking drones or seekers.
Left can't hide your soldiers on turn 1 (because turn 1 activations are pretty much 100% likely), and the right is obviously useless since you can't just ask the aliens to wait while you blow something up, unless you know of a way to move after using a grenade.
>I'm pretty sure infantry beat gunners in damage per round, since they have higher accuracy and up to three shots.
My point is that if your infantry does 2x4 damage and the gunner does 1x5 damage that looks impressive on paper for the infantry but it's not so hot when you're shooting 5hp floaters.
Realistically for me at least all line classes will have EC meaning both gunner and infantry will fire twice at max rank (altho infantry will crit massively more often, negating the damage point lategame). And again, you bring gunners for the tricks, which infantry lacks. Obviously they can't compete in line shooting with Line: The Class
>You sometimes lack a choice in the matter.
Wrong. Git gud. Break los and learn to flank.
>If an enemy is left with 1 HP and no cover after a grenade then you'll have a 65% chance to hit them.
>what are range modifiers and holo-targeting
Gunner tricks are all lame though. Other classes do it better.
Also since all damage is randomized smaller, more frequent shots tends to be better (assuming no damage reduction) due to less chance of over kill. Going by your 2x4 and 1x5, the gunner has a 33% chance to roll a 4 instead and the infantry has a 25% chance to roll 2 5s
ayys do not spawn right in front of you in vanilla, they will either be on the high ground or near the concrete walls on the right side, both of these are far enough that you don't have to activate them on turn one if you blue move conservatively.
Getting to the left obviously runs the risk of activating the guys on the right as you are crossing, but they are far enough that you can dash to the left containers and be safe knowing that they cant blue move far enough to shoot you.
>>what are range modifiers
Something that you often can't get without moving out of cover or in a way that will trigger more enemies.
>Have one soldier to throw a grenade
>Another soldier just to shoot and miss
>Another soldier to have a 75% chance of hitting.
>Out of 4 soldiers.
>In order to kill 1 sectoid out of a group of 4.
Then the other 3 sectoids land 1 hit on your non-hunkered group, you panic and kill yourself.
>Something that you often can't get without moving out of cover or in a way that will trigger more enemies.
Break LOS, dude. There's nothing but high cover around for you to snake around.
>Then the other 3 sectoids land 1 hit on your non-hunkered group,
Why did you leave them out in the open? Why weren't they behind proper cover, concealed from the enemy?
>grenade a guy from concealment
>now he has no cover
>close in other guy to shoot him from a spot with broken LOS to other enemies
>enjoy your kill
wow so hard such hardcore game like le dark souls :^)
Generally if there is anything bad enough to suppress it then its bad enough that you need to kill it in 1 turn anyway.
Would you rather trade a shot worth 6-12 damage for -30 aim on an enemy, or trade a shot worth 2-3 damage for -30 aim on an enemy?
Medics also have dense smoke, so they are pretty much the counter to anything difficult. Suppression on its own doesn't guarantee much, suppression + dense smoke will make you impossible to hit for anything that isn't an Outsider.
The engagement doesn't end until you go out and trigger the pods on the other side of the street.
But how would I shoot them if I'm breaking LoS?
it's good for messing around on a not-serious playthrough
i'd recommend changing the medic perk tree so they don't get dense smoke/combat drugs at the same time, also engineers so they don't get fire rocket
>run it with a tiny risk of getting hit, still need to kill ayy but it only costs a blue move
>suppress with tiny risk of return fire hit benefitting from DR, dont need to kill ayy this turn, ayy will kill itself for free if you flank it
Should I carefully pick the project I research or is there no story time limit of how many research I can do?
Are green outlined "priority" project a wall to the main story? I mean, why are they higher in priority?
Are autopsy really useful?
There's quite a good chance of a gunner missing the suppression shot and aliens still have a chance to hit (and crit) while suppressed.
The big issue is that all of this randomness comes during the alien turn, when you can't utilize a backup plan.
Ok thank you guys.
I'm playing on Classic... Retrospectively, I should have started in normal, because the aim and damage of aliens are quite nasty for a first run. Also, I rushed the green project a bit too much I think, so I had to deal with stronger aliens too early. But I'm finally handling it better now, and I'll research everything before advancing the story. I can make it.
after get sicking of long wang I decided to do a vanilla I/I run as well
quickly I remembered how fucking frustrating the first few missions are holy shit, I've had to restart and I can get a run started
The first month is almost entirely luck.
I failed pretty hard my first try just now (rolled 2 damage on 2 separate flanks), wiped, chose to restart, aced it easily the second try on the same map. You could argue I remembered how to play the game, I guess, but there's definitely a large luck component too.
Yes, this is why I can get through the first few months of LW 90% of the time without even a single loss yet Vanilla is about a 25/75 shot for each mission. Yes Vanilla is so easy compared to the ultra hard long war.
Your 25/75 phenomenon is not from difficulty.
It's percieved difficulty. Long War seems easier because you have a lot of options and a lot of tactics that work well, the game gives you options on your engagements, and you decisions actually influence the outcome of the mission.
The reason why vanilla seems so hard because most of the tactics don't work, due to the cheats aliens get. It's either the line of sight memeage or blow up cover and kill. You're forced to do these if you want smooth missions.
Vanilla also punishes your mistakes insanely hard, (out of proportion imo), because if you lose a soldier in vanilla early you lose 25% of your firepower and utility.
LW is 16% compared to that.
It's easy to lose one soldier in early game, and that's why vanilla runs spiral into losses so easily.
Okay, try imagining playing a long war mission with vanilla squad and mechanics.
Drones without steady weapon? More aliens.
A lot harder than a vanilla mission.
The opposite, vanilla mission with LW squad
Suddenly aliens are not twice your numbers, you can actually hit your shots.
It's a lot easier than an LW mission
That's not how difficulty works. The strength of aliens has to be compared to the X-Com forces present at the same time. If Long War made all aliens have 100x as much health and all X-Com soldiers deal 100x as much damage, the game would be exactly the same difficulty. What vanilla would be like if you made aliens with 100x as much health is completely irrelevant.
>take less powerful vanilla xcom squad and place it in a more difficult mission
>take a more powerful long war xcom squad and place it in an easier mission.
I'm not sure where you are going with this.
Wow people unanimously did not go for that explanation. I mean, I think I know what he is saying (not here in particular), but the attempts to support the case have been pretty poor so far.
Maybe he meant vanilla impossible is like a more luck based game with less player agency so you have a more consistent 25% too lose the campaign, but Long War is more tactics based with player control so even though in the long run you have a 35% chance to lose the campaign, its easier to accept the loss and since it feels more fair your less likely to attribute your defeat to difficulty versus poor player decisions? I don't know, that's my attempt.
I like this game.
checklist for nova scotia shitshow mission:
>mec with flamethrower
>really fast guy for hitting the beacon and running
>2 snipers with at least lasers
>hat with the word 'cock' written on the front
I post vaguely sexual fanart from deviantart, you try to steer it back on topic.
And I haven't even gotten into the Noir stuff yet.
>hitting the beacon
I would assume yes. I don't get how people have mecs and alien nades by newfoundland, I always get it by month two, I have never actually had it roll in when I had lasers
ya have to wonder...
If you can stay on top of them, they can be a good source of XP and laser weapons (whether to use or sell), but it's still good to narrow down the base, so that if you need to you can resolve them quickly.
10 kills from that single rift.
Mimic beacons op.