The lore for Elder Scrolls is incredible and fantastical. The games are anything but. They are very technical, limited, and mediocre due to engine limitations. Even getting Dragons to work like they do must've been a herculean effort by Beth.
The simple truth is: The fellas that write the lore were too creative for their own good and beth's shitty engine devs simply cannot answer their demands, so shit has to be retconned.
>>324280786 >You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.
>>324283518 C0DA isn't stricly canon, but Elder Scrolls metaphysics are so fluid that it might very well be. That's what you get when your entire setting is a mutant dreamscape with very little constants.
>>324283573 To be fair, Skyrim probably would retcon the Imperial Navy as being one ship and three canoes, and the massive Tamrielic Fleet that spearheaded the landing at Akavir as an overwhelming THREE ships and FOUR canoes.
>>324282935 >One can even argue that the lore is TOO fantastical Yeah but I fucking love it. TES is to my knowledge, the only fantasy sword & sorc setting with an insane, time traveling, elf-genociding terminator and it somehow works.
>>324282935 It IS too fantastical. Almost everything in Elder Scrolls is very abstract and imaginative, it can really look like anything.
Metaphysics, the inner workings of the universe, the mythos, it's all so very bizzare and sometimes morbid. Yet it's also fascinating, it can captivate the imagination
Luckily, Morrowind was a bizzare game in and of itself, which perfectly aligned itself with the absurd of the universe. Whatever flaws it had were easily forgiven due to the incredible leap it made and how unique and wicked it was. Though truth be told many games back in the late 90's/early 2000's share this bizzaro theme. LoK, Fallout and PlaneScape come to mind.
Then Oblivion came, and it was like a smack in the face, > "Oh you like outlandish and mysterious themes? Haha too bad for you! Here, have generic european medieval fantasy!!" It was like... Uhh wut??
Oblivion wasn't a bad game, but it was just so... Not Elder Scrolls. It was as unimaginative as it gets, so much that even it's knockoff bootleg (Two Worlds) managed to be more creative and interesting.
>>324283874 >using memes for arguments Daggerfall had around the same amount of variety in housing then Shitrim. Just because the graphics were limited and everything was more box-like doesn't give you the excuse not to be able to tell the difference between houses.
I should also add that the last Skyrim expansion was Kirkbride as fuck.
The first dragonborn fag sucking Moras billion dicks to learn how fucking mantle the most primitive and abstract portions of the god mind, something your surface tier elderscrolls fag can't comprehend.
A reminder that the majority of elder scrolls fags still think Dwemer disapearing is a "mystery", hence the dozens of retarded "return of the dwemer" mods.
Dawnstar would have been in Arena, and both Arena and Daggerfall were heavy on the procedural generation. That said, don't create some sort of false dichotomy. Being larger than a tiny fishing village (pretty much the same size as Khuul from Morrowind no less) does not mean it has to be 200 houses of procedurally generated crap. Expecting a moderately detailed medium-large city is not unreasonable. But we're talking about a game where the capital city has 11 houses...
Skyrim was open world yet had instanced cities, I don't understand why they couldn't have made a big overworld city using various tricks to make it look larger without having to generate all the inner workings. Then when you're in the instances version the complete city could be present.
>>324288968 That, or something more simple like not making the ENTIRE cities visitable but instead only giving you access to areas handwaved as being "the most important ones", residential, government sectors, and so forth. It's not like it's any more immersion breaking than the shining jewel capital city of the continent-spanning Empire being roughly the size of a large stadium
>>324280786 Uncle Tiberius just shouted at it until the jungle went away. In truth, Todd was just scared that a wider audience would think that Romans in a tropical jungle would be too weird, so he made it as unoffensive as possible.
>>324282187 "'You have suffered for me to win this throne, and I see how you hate jungle. Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you.'"
>>324282935 Look you can skimp on some of the more hidden shit. Like for example make the vampire stuff only in a frozen pool somewhere in a corner, then you least you acknowledge what youve made. But just cutting it out completely is fucking retarded. Look at vietcong, its a simple shooter in vietnam, does it look pretty, not really. But hell at least you feel like youre in a jungle. They could have done that with TESIV.
Also betheseda is just fucking lazy. Things like no spears just screams laziness. And they dont even have to skimp on this shit. It is not like they are a first time developer that is eating plain noodles since it is their first release and dont have any money left over. Hell they even had a moment everyone were allowed to design their own little addons to the game and they had brilliant shit. Like for example one guy making it possible to make shouts by screaming at your kinect. But no that didnt get put into the final game.
>>324280786 Retkonned by Kirkbride after release by a deus ex machinae process to save Beth ass. Beth was incompetent and the technical limitations would have made any attempt hard as fuck. So they went the super easy way and let Kirkbride spout a super shitty excuse to cover their asses
>>324290598 Crysis was a top of the line that didnt have to handle a lot of shit that is required in an RPG. I was mentioning it because I meant that limitations werent a factor, just developer (or marketing as you suggest) laziness.
>hey Todd we could make this awesome jungle with in the middle a city of golden bridges and fantastical buildings >Hmm sounds like a lot of work lets just make a generic fantasy landscape/that isnt marketable lets just go for tolkien
Honestly, if I was in an executive or if I had an important position inside Bethesda, I would respectfully tell the team to not push the graphics, but rather use the technology to make the game as immersive and respectful to the lore as I can.
Sure, programming and modeling some of the crazy shit that are inside the lore would be a pain in the ass, but you can allocate the resources to those areas instead of trying to get cool graphics so that the kids are pleased. If they somehow are able to make a world as big as the one in Just Cause 2, while being as athmospheric as Morrowind they could easily win most of the GOTY awards (hell, even GOT Decade). The game could have as bland of a gameplay as Skyrim, and still be great because of the world.
I don't know what data they use to keep trying to put more graphical detail into the game, but I think that it's completely stupid and useless.
>>324291264 But there isnt even graphical updates. The textures are as complex as those in oblivion and the mapping for example is terrible. Let alone bugs/quirks you find in 5 minutes (like giants shooting you off in space) werent fixed in testing. And kids will also love a jungle. The game is easy to play, you can do various things and explore all kinds of fun places. And whether it is a fort on the mountain or a fort in the jungle, that doesnt matter. Hell a very outlandish place would still work.
>>324291264 Just Cause 2 could be made so much more immersive but all those little towns, their is nothing to do there. No shops to buy things, no clothes to buy, no history of the villages. Just a name and copy pasted buildings.
>>324291624 >>324291625 As I see it, Beth tries to make excuses by saying: 'We know the game is buggy as fuck, but hey, look at these cool graphics'. So, if you cut the graphics and spend all the money and effort to make the world/athmosphere elements of the game better, you would probably get a better product.
Also, why the fuck doesn't Bethesda hire the best modders into their team? Valve did that with the people working on CS when it was a simple HL mod and I'm pretty sure that worked great.
The Dwemer felt that the TeS universe was bullshit because they proved through using science that the universe was inconsistent, illogical and could be tricked.
They attempted to escape this reality by using an artificial god using the Heart of Lorkhan, they fucked it up and rather than truly ascend to this new reality they wanted they simply became the skin of the bronze god.
Because the Dwemer were the ultimate fedora tippers of the TeS universe they embodied the essence of doubt.
Whenever the numdian was activated, it litterally became the God of athiesm which reminded Akatosh, god of time, that he and the universe are a lie.
When this happens, time as a concept dies. A dragon break occurs.
>>324292196 >>Also, why the fuck doesn't Bethesda hire the best modders into their team? Valve did that with the people working on CS when it was a simple HL mod and I'm pretty sure that worked great. they had an inhouse idea gathering moment. Every employee would try to make their own mod and they showed it off. Like a brainstorm session where you also make it. However they didnt bother putting it in because fuck effort.
Also when does beth try to excuse their bugs with graphics? They are terrible.
>>324292572 >Every employee would try to make their own mod and they showed it off. Like a brainstorm session where you also make it. However they didnt bother putting it in because fuck effort. carriage mods for skyrim (which completely change the game up if you disable fast traveling) were a product of developers mods.
its not like a massive overhaul FREE EXPANSION PACKS WUZ U SAYIN WE GET FREE GAMEZ? but its a very critical piece of the puzzle if you aim to make skyrim a more challenging and RPG oriented experience.
>>324293249 Same people worked there for years and still no signs of any improvement in skills. They still make the same spaghetti codes and bugs for the games. And they still can't use other engines or learn actually how to optimze the same frankenstein engine they've been using for more than a decade.
FFS, they still haven't learned how to do fucking proper UV mapping for textures.
>>324293878 >>324294052 Implying that's bad we have had enough down to earth, realism seeking RPG's we need something nuts atm, so that there is breth of fresh air in stories. >>324294365 They should build him a man cave for him to write and provide him with whatever he wants.
TES games have always been about lore and if it goes away from it, it will be a boring bland series that too without any mechanics.
FO4 was an attempt to casualise FO games and I don't want TES games stripped of their lore.
>>324294849 If he brings Vivec to one of the remaining countries that haven't had a mainline title focus on it, I don't care if he sticks Vivec in another pagoda. I just want someone to make the world alien again. (not morrowind alien, but however alien to our world the country should be)
The dragonbreak was a great one time only way to resolve the various endings of Daggerfall. Spitting it out every time some dumbass decides to fuck with canon just degrades the series. Especially when they decided to fuck with canon because someone got a hardon for the LOTR movies.
>>324295774 >look at that link >see a ton of other crazy shit that came out only like one or two years ago Why is it that all the crazy cool stuff comes out when everyone's moved on to the newest game?
>>324288387 this, the dragonborn was a good expansion both in terms of lore and extra content, Miraak was a great antagonist, and the whole mantling the maker thing being actually included in them main storyline is remarkable
>>324296371 yeah the ideal masters and the soul cairn were interesting, and are both something that was only touched upon in battlespire, which no one played
but the whole thing with Miraak and the religion of the solstheim nords (cant remember what they called themselves, been a while since I played skyrim) and mantling the Aka-Tusk was both interesting and convoluted just enough that it actually makes you pay attention without being too frustrating
>>324299282 No, Kuhlman never translated, he made his own stuff up. Apparently he's even more insane than Kirkbride but he's able to hide it better and make it more accessible. That's why he's still working for them
>>324291608 Supposedly in Skyrim it changes to say they all didn't disappear at once not just the one at the corpusarium, there were some settlements scattered around. >>324292404 There is no way imperial city wasn't the largest in the series but the entire thing was also done with multiple instances. It was nicely done even though the rest of the map was made flat so the removal of levitation wasn't that bad in the fact it was basically useless, you'd think they would of put climbing back in at least with it being removed though. >>324295518 Skyrim did look really cool though. I mean Oblivion just had some weird shit to it like what was the point of nirn root? Honestly I found all the fucking things and I got like 2-3 potions I don't even remember what the effect was but it was like something I'd never have a use for. Wasn't related to anything else in the game like it was just this pointless thing thrown in for no reason. "There was no in game lore really about the nirnroot just one npc that's like I have secret lores about it to makes teh secret potion."
>>324282610 This, but with the addition of also making the stories as generic and safe as possible for normalfags and console kiddies to swallow.
Things that are within their (limited) technical capabilities are either left out or watered down so that they're not too hard to understand/offensive. Can you imagine one of the good guys genociding an entire race? Bestiality? Polygamy? A balls to the wall sex scene written in full detail in a book? An entire race being turned into the skin/casting of a time traveling giant robot pillar that keeps time from becoming non-linear? Look at what they did to fucking Skooma. It went from vendors refusing to even touching you to giving a meager amount of stamina and being able to sell to everyone.
>>324300996 >something that was written after the most recent release of the series isn't included in the games Gee, how surprising I'll laugh when the next TES has a bunch of c0da references, just like Skyrim did with all his past stuff.
>>324296852 >trainwiz makes a space ES game >spelljammer style with crewing big magical starships to shoot at argonian root pirates >smuggling souls from Masser to Secunda >all the normies forever butthurt that TES is now full high fantasy instead of generic fantasy It would be a win-win situation
>>324296162 Miraak was a bland as fuck antagonist and the entire gravity of his plan was tremendously underplayed. You have to make all sorts of leaps just to figure out what he's trying to do and it has no bearing on the story whatsoever. He could be a generic evil warlord armed with forbidden knowledge and it wouldn't change a thing. Dagoth Ur was far more compelling, both in-game and in the lore.
>>324306497 Nope. You get a lot more than that. Might want to reread Mankar Camoran's Commentaries Also CHIM is an ehnolfey word, hence the all caps. I mean shit, have a brief read up at the very least. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:CHIM
Blizzard didn't get REALLY blizzard until after BC. Blizzards core team has always been shit compared to Blizzard North but Vanilla was mostly made by a more rational blizzard than the one we have today.
Because of the LotR demographic they really fucked over night elves to more resemble LotR tier lawful good so they removed their animalistic stuff.
Except Metzen was very much the backbone behind night elf lore.
He wanted a savage dindu elf to compliment the savage dindu orc he invisioned.
Malfurion was his mary sue prior to thrall, which is why he was nature jesus before thrall became element jesus.
The thing about Metzen is that he isn't a George Lucas full of bad ideas that other execs suppressed. He's simply stopped giving a shit. This is apparent by all his old shit he did that was actually good.
He's basically become rich, old and lazy and doesn't waste the effort anymore. He's also far more light hearted then he used to be, he was once into grimdark shit and then got into silver age comics which explains why his new stuff is so capeshit tier.
>>324309046 >Bretons have subpar lore because they're inherently uninteresting. No i'm sorry but that's fucking bullshit. Bretons have subpar lore because the only game that focused on them was when TES was still a D&D knockoff, and since then almost no one ever cared about them in any game.
If they're boring right now they have no excuse to not make them interesting like the other races. The Altmer at least get cool stuff like the Thalmor faction and the Psjic Order but we barely know shit about them.
>>324303394 >He is named Heimskr for a reason. Heimskr has a book written by him in both past and future and he appears in TESO Heimskr is an agent of Talos especially considering the fact that Many Headed Talos is a lost super rare tome
>>324310465 It's not even worth 100k. He says it took him around 210 days, and the mod is a few cells and a few quests (For reference >>324309579 took the author three months to make and is about twice as large). He claims he also makes over $60 an hour, and that over 100,000 people downloaded it when the most downloads he has is 50,000 He's a liar and a fucking greedy pig.
>>324311143 >Argonians arent slavew >able to be mind controlled by the Hist at any moment >even by Hist that aren't part of the main collective by the ones on Umbriel Just because your master lets you on a long chain doesn't mean the chain doesn't exist lizardman. You're a useful tool to the Hist.
>>324312132 K's math was not supported by peer review. One of the dwemer was in the outer planes at the time. This fouled up the math even more. K went ahead with his plan and instead of becoming the skin of the Numidium all the Dwemer souls went to the nearest constructs. This is why Dwemer automatons are still active.
>>324282610 Morrowind isn't the most technically impressive game, but it gets the lore shenanigans right. Oblivion and Skyrim are just boring.
While Cyrodiil and Skyrim might not be as outlandish as Morrowind they're still quite fantastical and surreal. I can't wait to see how badly Bethesda will butcher Summerset Isles.
My greatest wish is for Elder Scrolls to be rebooted from Oblivion or even Daggerfall by a competent team to deliver a series of fantastic, well written and outlandish RPGs that displays each province in all it's glory.
>the Arena >not big enough for a tenis match >less people than a weekend highschool football match spectating >the Market >a single street with 10 shops top >no street vendors, no crowds walking around, no new stocks ever
dunno. I was just really ticked off that the flea market that shows up every tuesday on my neighborhood looks way more lively and busy than the commercial hub of the capital city of the empire at the center of the world.
i mean fuck, could you imagine the difference it would have made if they had made all the buildings in the IC 4 floors instead of 2? if the streets were kinda dark from the looming buildings? if the streets were closer, more crowded and noisy with traffic from carts and people from all over the world doing business? people selling? people talking, people working, etc?
why not add two circles more to the wheel and fill them with slums and more middle class houses instead of the cushy mansions even the poor people had there? or fuck, make a level of the IC's sewers a true underground city housing bars and homes and all the seedier life. Kinda like, dunno, fucking Vivec, though it looked like a small town mall it still had a sense of life to it.
i hate the fucking place. I love urban life and settlements, even more in fantasy settings and this sorry shithouse spits on me. I will never let go of that, i hate the plastic look of Cyrodill, the amusement park-looking towns and unnatural looking plants and geography, but it's the City that makes me lose my shit. It should be the most memorable place in TES ever. But it can't even compete with Balmora.
>>324280786 After reading this thread I've come to realize elder scrolls lore is retarded and and ironed out by a casual gamer aiming dev team. Besides after elder scrolls online, well its a dead title.
>Dwemer scientifically prove reality is bullshit. >They want to make a non-bullshit reality by merging with a mechanical god. >They fuck it up and merge with the gods skin. >This makes the mechanical god the lord of Fedoras.
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