>grounded in reality
>"We tried to make the game as immersive as possible with all the little details"
>All enemies are bullet-sponges. A t-shirt wearing thug can take 6 blasts to the chest close range and shrug it off
Blunder of the century
>B B B But it's an RPG
Nobody gives a shit. People will buy this because it is a TPS not because you can min/max your character. It will die because of the horrible gunplay.
Enemies are not such bullet sponges in Warframe.
Division has worse bullet sponges than Destiny.
This game has the biggest immersion breaking combat I have experienced in a game yet. I doubt they will change it as the beta goes on/ release.
I know Tom Clancy hated liberals, so some people dislike him. But there was a fucking time that the words "Tom Clancy" on something implied a certain degree of technical research and realism.
After his death, everything went to shit.
>>All enemies are bullet-sponges
>SPONGES OF BULLETS
I understand they are annoying, but what other option is there? Everyone bitches about this, but what would have been better? 2-3 bullets for each enemy like COD?
PLEASE TELL ME. I am curious HOW WOULD YOU HAVE "FIXED" OUR GAME?
More like its going to be the secret world 2.
>immersive as fuck
>Well crafted puzzles and story
>Shitty damage sponge enemies
>God awful slow RPG combat
>2-3 bullets for each enemy like COD?
YES. How about if you shoot a normal person wearing a tanktop with a 9mm a few times they fall over dead, but if you shoot a dude wearing a plate carrier you don't do much damage at all.
Kind of like how the real world works in your grounded in reality shooter.
2-3 bullets for each enemy like IN REAL FUCKING LIFE.
CoD didn't invent the fact that humans get killed easily by bullets.
Just make a good AI and problem fixed, the game remains hard because the enemies know how to take care of their shit, how to stall the player and find good cover, some enemies may even have kevlars so it may take even up to 10 bullets to the torso making headshots important.
>2-3 bullets for each enemy like COD?
Sure. If it proves to be too easy in testing then you could make the game harder in other ways. For example, you could make ammo scarcer, add more enemies, improve enemy AI, or reduce player health.
The map is small as shit.
The only thing that can save this game is if the Dark Zone has every building enterable and in PVP the damages are competitive (good aim and tactics is rewarded, not weapon levels and massive health pools)
>You are a bullet sponge and everything dies in 1 hit
>Power Fantasy mode
>you have a bit more HP then the enemy but they can still kill you if you play dumb
>I want to have a good time but still win mode
>The enemy does a lot more damage, also has more HP
>I like a challenge mode
>You and the enemy both have low HP, high damage and both die in 1 hit to the head
Why isn't this the default for all FPS?
The dark tone of the game's story doesn't really sit well with that. This is a world in the middle of an apocalypse, bodies are piled up in the streets, and everyone's starving to death. Medicine, electricity and running water are a memory. Life is cheap, and, oh yeah, you have to shoot people 10 times in the head to kill them. What?
It is not even just the high health pool but the animations.
A hobo with a pistol can be reloading his weapon and he won't even flinch if you dump a mag into him. Looks super amateurish. Like the bullets are going through him.
Because the game was marked as a semi-realistic shooter. No Tom Clancy game has ever had bullet sponge enemies.
It's like telling Final Fantasy fans not to be mad when the next FF game is re-skinned minecraft instead of a JRPG.
bulletsponge enemies also go against Ubisofts own claim of putting immense research into the city, viruses, etc to make it as immersive as possible.
I very much doubt bullet proof skin is somehow explained in the game's lore.
yeah and it died because the mmo crowd was upset that their high lvl weapons weren't better in every way than the lower lvl ones so they fucking changed it to that bs. FUCK. That was the great feature of that game. I am salty as fuck about that.
>need an army to kill a hobo
Well it doesn't matter, if the game had a two shot kill mechanic weapon upgrades would be pointless, as well as skills, gear and PVP, that would break the very core of the game. Just leave it as it is man. What they could do is increase the headshot critical multiplier in some way that it's not overpowered.
Then those skills and gears were badly designed (designed around the fact that humans are all bullet sponges)
Why not do horizontal progression instead of the lazy ass vertical HP faggotry
39/39 Tom Clancy games are semi-realistic shooters.
Or directly from the steam page:
>Tom Clancy’s The Division™ sets a new bar in video game realism and open world rendering.
I guess whoever designed the game has never heard of suspension of belief.
I can buy enemies that take a whole mag to kill but only if it is fantazy or sci-fi. Not in a game where everything is super grounded in reality and then suddenly bullet proof humans.
Realism is just a marketing checkbox.
>Make that palm tree looks like its swaying in the wind.
>Great! Now we can call our game realistic!
The cheapest and fastest way to add difficulty to a game is just up the HP on the enemies.
Ubi knows exactly what they are doing.
>new Jack Ryan Jr. novels
I still read them but boy are they a notch worse than Jack Ryan Sr. novels.
I really just hope they fix the bullet sponge shit
half a mag to kill an enemy? you know what sure thats fine people in most fps spray around half a mag to kill one guy and then they reload anyway, but 2 mags+ is pretty dumb.
Wanting the gunplay to be more realistic because "immersion" is not the same as wanting to die once and then uninstall the game.
It is still a game but that doesn't mean it can only be either super realistic or super arcade gameplay wise. There is middle ground.
Pretty much exactly why I lost interest.
I was expecting something kind of battlefield-ish, maybe even like rainbow 6 crossed with semi-open world gta
Instead it's going to be all about loot and levels and carrot-on-a-stick skinnerbox bullshit.
People dying and coming back to life break immersion. You're sitting there telling me that shooting someone multiple times completely ruins the game for you, but that person disappearing and reappearing completely fine a few seconds later is totally fine. It sounds like you're just being a little bitch.
Grounded in reality or authentic feeling is what I would call old R6 games.
Always when people say "realistic", some autists and spergs think they mean super hardcore 1 bullet kills and destroys the game realism. No, nobody wants that. They want suspension of belief and gameplay, gameworld that is grounded in reality if it is marketed as such.
A fantasy game can be grounded in reality and suspend your belief if everything is consistent and works like it should in that gameworld.
>C'mon, anon. Was Splinter Cell realistic?
Err.. it basically predicted all the NSA stuff
And almost all the gadgetry in the game actually exists
And ghost recon predicted the war in the caucuses almost to the exact date
I don't know if guys actually run around like some kind of superspy operative like in splinter cell IRL, but clancy's been pretty spot on, even though I feel like he's got a massive boner for everything american and it blinds his point of view a bit.
>1 headshot is instakill
>otherwise you die from 2-3 shots, best case is 4
>people bitch about too realistic health system
>be Ubisoft still
>no instakill headshot
>takes lot more shots to kill and die
>people bitch about bullet spongy health system
Respawning is a gameplay mechanic the same way needing a monitor to play a game is a gameplay mechanic. You couldn't fucking play the game if you didn't have one or the other.
>How about if you shoot a normal person wearing a tanktop with a 9mm a few times they fall over dead
They don't, actually.
People only "drop dead" when you hit their central nervous system. Anywhere else and they're alive until they bleed to death.
Even when you hit the CNS, unless it's in the neck/brain, you've probably only paralyzed their limbs, not their autonomic functions controlling the heart and lungs.
Basically: People almost never die instantly when shot. Mostly, they bleed out over a span of time lasting a couple minutes to over an hour.
And if the CNS isn't hit, they can run and move just fine. I've seen a guy get easily 8+ bullets in his chest take off running down the street. He died, but that didn't stop him from moving like a bat out of hell after getting unloaded on.
Videogames and movies have lied to you.
Nigger, you know you can have an RPG with guns where enemies AREN'T bullet sponges, right?
Problem is, you faggots don't actually know what an RPG is.
In your mind, RPG = lots of big numbers and big enemies to slowly chip away at with mind-numbingly boring combat.
The only bitching about siege that has happened is again too long kill times thanks to shit netcode and p2p networking. Nobody has actually wanted longer kill times in Siege.
Nobody want's long kill times in a tactical shooter.
They bought a rainbow six game. They should have known from the start that dying because bullets are lethal is a thing.
Fuck, why do casuals have to worm their way in and try to ruin everything.
>People only "drop dead" when you hit their central nervous system.
No people still drop, albeit not dead, when you shoot them because getting shot REALLY FUCKING HURTS.
I don't expect Ubi to simulate them falling on the floor crying and slowly bleeding to death but if I unload a clip into you, even if I miss your "central nervous system" you are not going to just shrug it off and keep attacking me like it was nothing.
And don't give me that adrenaline bullshit. Go take that argument over to /k/ because i'm not going to get into it here.
No, I implied that respawning is necessary even in a super hardcore milsim game because it is a fucking game.
Saying respawning "breaks immersion" is retarded because it is pretty much mandatory because of the medium.
Comparing wanting immersive gameplay to being able to respawn IN A VIDEO GAME is fucking retarded.
Literally don't give a fuck about anything you said because you don't know basic terminology for firearms or ballistics. How the fuck could I take anything you say seriously on this subject.
The all around point is there have been A LOT of Tom Clancy games and you have to deal with other soldiers wearing body armor and having powerful weapons and what not, are those games boring? No. Did people go, "wow I wish these enemies took longer to kill"? No. Even if The Division is suppose to be a TPSRPG the bullet sponge shit shouldnt fly.
SONAR is an actual thing that actually exists. It is possible to create a visual field based on SONAR information.
Bats have literally been doing this for millions of years.
And there are robots that literally exist right now that do this.
>what is a video game
So to you no game ever can be immersive because people can respawn?
Holy shit, better remove arma from the realistic section and put it in the arcade section with Quake 3 because hurrr you can respawn not immersive at all.
>No people still drop, albeit not dead, when you shoot them because getting shot REALLY FUCKING HURTS.
No they don't.
Go on liveleak and actually watch people getting shot.
NONE OF THEM drops 'because he's hurt'.
They either drop because their spine is severed / brain is splattered out, or they run as fast as they can away from the bullets.
Stop getting everything you know from the fucking mainstream media, you idiot. They create a whole bunch of asinine stereotypes that aren't actually true, but are easier for the audience to handle.
Even with body armor don't most people drop from 1 bullet? I mean even with body armor you see lots of people come up with broken ribs because of the impact.
You even graze someone they are out of the game already. Sure adrenaline can keep you pumping but if they add that to the game it should have a timer where you have enough time to either get the fuck out of there or you dead and restarting or whatever.
What Ubi could have done is have a ton of shit for cover and have AI blind fire you so another AI can actually aim down their sights at you thus forcing you to either get shot and lose or luck out.
I would say that one of the charms of TSW is that it's literally an entire world, but The Division is just New York
Really, what is the story even going to be aside from surviving? I get that they have "10+ story missions" but that doesn't sound much
And you thinking that rpgs need to have real-world firearm mechanics and physics is genuinely retarded. Want to now go around in these stupid circles of this conversation 20 more times?
>I KNOW WAR
>I WATCH CLIPS OF IT ON LIVELEAK
People go down because bones are hit and broken, because muscle is torn, or because the pain causes parts of your body to fail. A shot to the pelvis, can and will put a man down and on death's door without touching the spine or brain at all, but because it will shatter bones and cut important blood passagways in that area. So sure, a shot to the spine or brain will bring someone down and kill them, but it's one of a hundred or so ways to kill someone with a gun.
You're a retard, and should probably stop thinking of yourself as an authority on anything but sucking cocks.
>are required because this is an rpg
You have never played an actual RPG before.
Just in case you're retarded, older PnP and tabletop RPGs had EXTREMELY realistic damage models for characters, enemies, and even random NPCs, in fact, there was a time when RPGs (setting aside) were some of the most realistic games one could play.
really depends on the gun/type of enemy but since its either HUMANS WEARING POWER ARMOR, ROBOT CYBORGS, or MUTANTS, all of those make a little bit of sense when it takes more then 4 hits to kill something, even then The Division has even greater bullet sponges when its just regular guys running around in regular clothes. Even in warframe a headshot will oneshot most everything
No they don't. Nobody is saying that you mong.
We are saying that an RPG that is set in a realistic setting should have somewhat realistic gameplay. Something that suspends your belief. Having bullet sponge enemies like fucking borderlands in a game like this is as good as having a realistic SWAT team jumping out of a bush in Witcher 3 and headshotting everyone.
You are acting as if all RPGs need to be the same, no matter the setting or theme.
All RPGs so far have had magic and swords. By your logic they should be absolutely fine in Division.
>B-BUT IT'S AN RPG!
You're the one arguing in circles you stupid faggot. You thinking that bullet sponges and shit firearm mechanics is justifiable in a shooter is genuinely retarded.
No hyperbole, it's actually fucking retarded.
In fact if you continue to argue this you are just confirming that you're actually, genuinely fucking retarded.
>Division has worse bullet sponges than Destiny.
>I literally cannot handle criticism.
Not even him but that is almost the definition of a strawman argument.
Your argument could be boiled down to "I cant press x to breath in and out, but my character doesn't suffocate. my immersion is ruined"
And not even just the bosses but regular mooks.
It just looks super fucking retarded.
The PVP is even worse because using tactics and cover is absolutely pointless as you still need to dump a whole mag into someone. But pray that the other guy doesn't have a gun that is 1 level better than your because then he will just empty your HP first with no tactics needed.
Can't believe Ubi actually let these youtubers film such shit gunplay and let them show it.
Our last hope for an immersive survival shooter that isn't everyone spawning as a naked murderhobo
>Tom Clancy's The Division
>Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Wildlands
Why compete with yourself Ubisoft?
>make one of the most interesting and well made infection base apocolyptic setting
>enemies are just fags in hoodies with handguns
>pretty much an average day in New York except in game some enemies are white instead of all black.
It would be the perfect game for a CROSSED infection. Why can't I fight people who want to beat me with HORSE COCK
>2-3 bullets for each enemy like COD
How about 2-3 bullets like Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon. You know, the fucking defining games of the whole Tom Clancy brand. Make it less of a RPG Numbers game and more of a survival/mystery game.
I know but...a man can dream. A man can dream.
You know, from the moment that I heard about this game I was expecting an MMO version of TLoU's multiplayer, except maybe with a few gimmicks like an MGS3 field surgeon mechanic. But instead it's basically Destiny with a realism skin. Leave it up to Ubi to consistently shit on their own potential.
Calling it an RPG doesn't mean you can put in shit that doesn't fit and say LOL RPG WE CAN DO WHATEVER WE WANT.
Just because Witcher 3 has swords and magic doesn't mean Division should have them. Even though both are rpgs.
Bullet sponges aren't the defining feature of the RPG genre.
>MMO version of TLoU's multiplayer
Thats what i thought too, imagine the max difficulty of TLoU in PS4, grounded i think.
Now imagine scarce resources, some sort of trading, level up like in TLoU to get better stats and finding weapons around the map.
Now add the Division map details, missions, side missions and dark zone and shit without the "hurr dur RPG".
It would be great
Putting Tom Clancy in the name was a mistake.
Not only does it limit what you can do with the lore it also makes a lot of the gameplay elements look retarded because they do not belong in a Tom Clancy game and people expect something different.
After reading a few of the top sellers of Tom Clancy, i always wondered how he would write the games as a book.
I mean a Ghost Recon book or Splinter Cell book, how would they be portrayed?
Also a The Division book would be cool to read.
Senior International Brand Strategist for Ubisoft here.
First off, fuck you. We own Clancy's name and we can tack that dead asshole onto any game we want. Secondly, go piss in your own mouth. Stop telling us what you think a "great idea" is, because we here at Ubisoft CLEARLY know better than you. Third, stop arguing and preorder the game already. Stop denying yourself that the Tom Clancy name makes you excited to buy our shit. In fact, you're going to be so excited that you're going to buy all six DLC packs too, and then you're going to preorder the next Assassin's Creed because you like being anally shafted by us.
Sincerely, go suck nigger dick.
Damage markers are usually able to be turned off. I also want to be able to turn off prompts for cover and vaulting. I hope the UI is also scaleable.
I think normal enemies are fine, but like Destiny once you start getting shielded enemies and yellow health bar enemies shit gets annoying as fuck.
The best part about this game is:
-you own your guns
It's basically a dream game.
I think it could turn out really good.
People have said it was fun.
Any other game, guns usually aren't owned. You drop them on the floor once you run out of ammo. In CS you don't own any of your guns. You just buy them for that round until you die. In this game when you have a gun, its like an RPG where your gun is an item that you own.
Some people collapse from shock but it's more psychological than being physically disabled by the impact, they can get up again and keep on trucking if they don't have a panic attack.
Some special forces units do training drills where they actually shoot each other (with extensive protection of course) so they know what to expect and won't collapse and block a doorway if they actually get hit entering a room.
The dark zone loot shit could be really fun, but there really won't be a point to ever not go rogue if you see a pack on someone's back.
I do like you can hijack someone's extraction chopper for your own loot.